Stop making stupid threads like this, it is not unique, and of course it wont be the next wow, nothing is the next wow. Proven after the extreme hypes of Vanguard, AOC, WAR, DF,..., every major hyped game has had 100 of these same threads. Please stop.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011 -------------------- Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
WoW is a unique game, in that it came at a great time as many MMO games at the time it released were often very buggy and had quirky things to learn. WoW was easy to learn, had minimal computer settings and was very polished at release. Combine with the fact that they piggy-backed off their successsful Warcraft RTS and you have what you have today. Just about anyone who liked PvE (and lets face it, most people prefer PvE) found the game they needed in WoW.
I suppose it is the cool thing to do to blast WoW, the people to play WoW, etc. but what MMO game has had that kind of success?
I think GW2 is making a big jump in MMO games by removing a dedicated healer class from the game and trying to remove the feeling of "grind", making things a bit more persistent-impact kind of environment and limiting the death-penalty. These are all very casual friendly advances in my opinion. The only thing they need to be sure of is to limit the game bugs at launch. I would assume since they already have GW1, that the bug list should be rather minimal for a sequel.
I certainly hope the GW2 concept of "no dedicated healer" and limited grind concepts are successful, and if it is we can look forward to more MMO games with these concepts.
I would not be suprised if GW2 sold 1 million copies at launch. From all the info and videos released so far it's looking to be a heavy contender in the MMO market.
Someone obviously wasn't on the WoW train at launch. WoW wasn't SUPER buggy (though there were QUITE a few major bugs) like some games but having to queue for hours to get in and when you did the random disconnects were enough to drive one absolutely insane. At the time, everyone was shouting how it was the end of WoW and blah blah. Blizzard manned up, took the complaints on the chin, and fixed every one of them. A mentality like this that seems to be lacking in quite a few MMO launches lately.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
My, it almost sounds like that you don't like GW2 to be successful, or hope that it won't be in the long term.
He is just being a realist
Yeah, it's true that Blizzard has the resources - financial and otherwise - to potentially copy any idea and feature from any MMORPG should they wish to, the way he stated it only made it sound like he was hoping for it, for GW2 to fall short or be 'gutted'.
its true but blizzard cant copy the new dynamic story events, skill based pvp and new GW2 graphics. period.
GW2 is PvP game, that's not for everyone...WoWis big for it's PvE.
GW2 is NOT a PvP game. GW1 was originally created as a PvP game (PvE was meant as a preperation for PvP, organzied PvP was the only endgame) but with Factions this started to change and with Nightfall and EotN this focus was gone completely. This was done because Anet saw that both outside of GW and within the GW community there was a lot more money to be made with casual PvE than with hardcore PvP. They will continue on this trend with GW2 (but also including solid and balanced PvP of course).
i've played pvp guildwars for over 5 years now and the pvp has never been balanced, they are always adjusting skills.
They're always adjusting skills to keep a semblance of balance because people are always finding new ways to combine the thousands of skills available together with 8 dual profession characters in a team environment.
Seriously tired of these constant comparisons to Warcraft. It's getting old and annoying. The popularity of WoW has left the MMO market stale and these type of topics don't help at all. It effectively builds up comparisons that destroy the game before it's even released.
It would be difficult for a B2P to harm a P2P very much at all. With no sub you don't need to quit your "other" MMO.
It is about players free time. Which game will players choose to play for that 2 hours that have. It really isn't about what business model games use.
But that still doesn't explain how a free game threatens the ability for a mmo player to have 2 games available instead of one. I bet that many players here play more than 1 game at a time, but you would have us believe that players won't/can't manage their time to include 2 mmos. I disagree. Especially if one is easy on the wallet.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
WOW cant die unless blizzard wants too. that means bring the servers down
There are 2 many people who spended countless hours grinding gear and dont want to move to a new game and start from 0 because then they ll see they are noob who dont know how to play the game without a gear advantage
losing=disapointment
Secondly there are million of little kids in wow who got no idea about gaming or that gw2 even exist they just found wow because blizzard wanted to catch such ppl for subscriptions
It would be difficult for a B2P to harm a P2P very much at all. With no sub you don't need to quit your "other" MMO.
It is about players free time. Which game will players choose to play for that 2 hours that have. It really isn't about what business model games use.
But that still doesn't explain how a free game threatens the ability for a mmo player to have 2 games available instead of one. I bet that many players here play more than 1 game at a time, but you would have us believe that players won't/can't manage their time to include 2 mmos. I disagree. Especially if one is easy on the wallet.
There's several scenarios; assuming a few obvious things such as as GW2 is fun/popular etc:
1. GW2 is a cut above and lots play it when it's new and, B2P-it but keep their old subs anyhow.
2. Later on a fork in the road, Either:
a) GW2 has no lasting value for some reason or at least it is too easy to do everything etc or the content is really great, but the replay is not so much, then ppl wander back to their regular P2P habits. b) GW2 is as good as P2P regular MMO and maintains as being as good. Some people will decide to save cash and unsub and others will need a new home and have found it and move on but others will think, "Hey got 2 for 1" and carrying on playing both equally or play a bit more etc. c) GW2 canes the P2P in everyway including making the previous MMO seem shallow and even the longevity of GW2 is very expansive then ppl will generally feel pushed and pulled to unsub from the other games except some ppl who have a really home of an MMO already.
So all the above will be likely, the extent though depends what sort of game GW2 is. But what is certain, is the B2P covers all bases as long as the quality and novelty is of a certain high standard, then those boxes will fly off the shelves which in turn could further drive it's success up. What does seem likely is that GW2 can be an MMO that is better and cheaper than a lot of P2P MMOs and that could change the market conditions a lot?
WOW cant die unless blizzard wants too. that means bring the servers down
There are 2 many people who spended countless hours grinding gear and dont want to move to a new game and start from 0 because then they ll see they are noob who dont know how to play the game without a gear advantage
losing=disapointment
Secondly there are million of little kids in wow who got no idea about gaming or that gw2 even exist they just found wow because blizzard wanted to catch such ppl for subscriptions
You do know that the creators of GW2 are known on record to make their game even easier than WoW did when drawing from the EQ playing style right? That means that even the WoW "kids" will seem like geniuses when it comes to playing GW2. Yes, it will be that much easier to get into and play...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
GW2 will not be even close to as big as WOW, but even being 1/10th as big as wow is still very successful.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
I think your over estimating Blizzard on this one.
GW2 will not be even close to as big as WOW, but even being 1/10th as big as wow is still very successful.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
I think your over estimating Blizzard on this one.
I don't think you understand the scope of blizzard.
GW2 will not be even close to as big as WOW, but even being 1/10th as big as wow is still very successful.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
I think your over estimating Blizzard on this one.
I don't think you understand the scope of blizzard.
sry robert i gotta agree with jimmy on this one (half way at least) i dont think they couldnt copy GW2's ideas but its not something they could copy into wow the core game designs are incompatible, now if they were to make a WoW 2 (or whatever they would name their second mmo) yes they would incorporate them however faster than Anet? no
the reason i dont think they could do it faster than Anet is because they would have to do the programming from scratch (not to mention make the whole mmo so it could allow these ideas) i personaly think your just overestimating the human race in its ability to write code perfectly and with enough speed to outpace coders that are probably just as good as them, debugging code takes time because noone can anticipate exactly how a those thousands of pages of code are going to interact .
and WoW wouldnt copy them untill they decided it would make them money (therefore after its been proven to work in another game).
not every problem can be solved with blizzards massive piles of cash.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
WoW is an anomaly in the MMO market, it's like a lightning striking twice at the exact same spot. It was pure change that when it came out it gathered such a huge playerbase. I mean look, only very few MMO's get over one million subs, or even half of that, but WoW already has over 10 million subscribers and surely it will grow when the next expansion comes out. That amount of players... it's just not normal. Don't get me wrong, all glory to the Blizzard. They are smart and big enought to keep the momentum of their game up and keep polishing it constantly, but like I said, it's almost purely by change that the game is as huge as it is.
Blizzard's name surely had something to do with the success (and the fact that when it was released it was propably THE most easily accessible and user friendly MMO in the market, for more hc players ofc) but if the launch had been, say, few years later I don't think it would be have so dominant place in the market. I think there simply wouldn't be any 10+ million subscriber MMO's in that case. When Blizzard's next MMO comes out I'm pretty sure it won't gather nearly as big following as WoW did. Several million subs, perhaps, but absolutely NOT anything in the league of WoW. I won't say nothing ever willl come to close to it, but propabilities are it won't happen anytime soon.
PS. Just for the record I currently play WoW and have been playing since it was released.
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
WoW is an anomaly in the MMO market, it's like a lightning striking twice at the exact same spot. It was pure change that when it came out it gathered such a huge playerbase. I mean look, only very few MMO's get over one million subs, or even half of that, but WoW already has over 10 million subscribers and surely it will grow when the next expansion comes out. That amount of players... it's just not normal. Don't get me wrong, all glory to the Blizzard. They are smart and big enought to keep the momentum of their game up and keep polishing it constantly, but like I said, it's almost purely by change that the game is as huge as it is.
Blizzard's name surely had something to do with the success (and the fact that when it was released it was propably THE most easily accessible and user friendly MMO in the market, for more hc players ofc) but if the launch had been, say, few years later I don't think it would be have so dominant place in the market. I think there simply wouldn't be any 10+ million subscriber MMO's in that case. When Blizzard's next MMO comes out I'm pretty sure it won't gather nearly as big following as WoW did. Several million subs, perhaps, but absolutely NOT anything in the league of WoW. I won't say nothing ever willl come to close to it, but propabilities are it won't happen anytime soon.
PS. Just for the record I currently play WoW and have been playing since it was released.
What this dude said. WoW was an anomaly, and I second that we will probably never see another mmo (at least as mmos exist now) that reaches the same success.
GW2 will not be even close to as big as WOW, but even being 1/10th as big as wow is still very successful.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
I think your over estimating Blizzard on this one.
I don't think you understand the scope of blizzard.
sry robert i gotta agree with jimmy on this one (half way at least) i dont think they couldnt copy GW2's ideas but its not something they could copy into wow the core game designs are incompatible, now if they were to make a WoW 2 (or whatever they would name their second mmo) yes they would incorporate them however faster than Anet? no
the reason i dont think they could do it faster than Anet is because they would have to do the programming from scratch (not to mention make the whole mmo so it could allow these ideas) i personaly think your just overestimating the human race in its ability to write code perfectly and with enough speed to outpace coders that are probably just as good as them, debugging code takes time because noone can anticipate exactly how a those thousands of pages of code are going to interact .
and WoW wouldnt copy them untill they decided it would make them money (therefore after its been proven to work in another game).
not every problem can be solved with blizzards massive piles of cash.
now on topic uhm no just no *walks away*
EDIT: post 100 yay
Show me which core game designs prevent blizzard from drastically changing their game? They've proven through each expansion that they can modify and change the game drastically in a very short time.
I mean it's like people who claimed phasing wouldn't be possible for WoW, and blizzard started implementing that.
There is no element in GW2 that would be impossible for blizzard to code into their game, they are much more well-funded and have some of the best in the industry in their company.
You think dynamic events can't be implemented? They are scripted events just like everything else... they just have outcomes that trigger other scripted events.
There is nothing in WoW's coding that prevents blizzard from developing events that function the same way, as a matter of fact the death knight starting area was an example of how blizzard can have you play through content and then have that content effect your surroundings.
Because the death knight starting area was linear and you played through it and left, it did not have to be cyclical in nature, but if you think blizzard couldn't program it to them take steps back to reverting to a previous state you are delusional.
I see people claim "oh it just wouldn't work with WOW's mechanics" but they don't seem to have a grasp on how implementation works.
There is no special aspect to GW2 that could not be recoded into WoW and implemented similarly. If anything WoW's engine is far less limited than GW2's from a gameplay mechanic standpoint, graphically however it comes out short.
GW2 will not be even close to as big as WOW, but even being 1/10th as big as wow is still very successful.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
I think your over estimating Blizzard on this one.
I don't think you understand the scope of blizzard.
sry robert i gotta agree with jimmy on this one (half way at least) i dont think they couldnt copy GW2's ideas but its not something they could copy into wow the core game designs are incompatible, now if they were to make a WoW 2 (or whatever they would name their second mmo) yes they would incorporate them however faster than Anet? no
the reason i dont think they could do it faster than Anet is because they would have to do the programming from scratch (not to mention make the whole mmo so it could allow these ideas) i personaly think your just overestimating the human race in its ability to write code perfectly and with enough speed to outpace coders that are probably just as good as them, debugging code takes time because noone can anticipate exactly how a those thousands of pages of code are going to interact .
and WoW wouldnt copy them untill they decided it would make them money (therefore after its been proven to work in another game).
not every problem can be solved with blizzards massive piles of cash.
now on topic uhm no just no *walks away*
EDIT: post 100 yay
Show me which core game designs prevent blizzard from drastically changing their game? They've proven through each expansion that they can modify and change the game drastically in a very short time.
I mean it's like people who claimed phasing wouldn't be possible for WoW, and blizzard started implementing that.
There is no element in GW2 that would be impossible for blizzard to code into their game, they are much more well-funded and have some of the best in the industry in their company.
You think dynamic events can't be implemented? They are scripted events just like everything else... they just have outcomes that trigger other scripted events.
There is nothing in WoW's coding that prevents blizzard from developing events that function the same way, as a matter of fact the death knight starting area was an example of how blizzard can have you play through content and then have that content effect your surroundings.
Because the death knight starting area was linear and you played through it and left, it did not have to be cyclical in nature, but if you think blizzard couldn't program it to them take steps back to reverting to a previous state you are delusional.
I see people claim "oh it just wouldn't work with WOW's mechanics" but they don't seem to have a grasp on how implementation works.
There is no special aspect to GW2 that could not be recoded into WoW and implemented similarly. If anything WoW's engine is far less limited than GW2's from a gameplay mechanic standpoint, graphically however it comes out short.
I think dilusional would be claiming that any past wow expansion changed the game drastically, or that it happened in a short amount of time.
Comments
Atleast they aren't saying WoW-killer anymore.
Stop making stupid threads like this, it is not unique, and of course it wont be the next wow, nothing is the next wow. Proven after the extreme hypes of Vanguard, AOC, WAR, DF,..., every major hyped game has had 100 of these same threads. Please stop.
East Carolina University, Computer Science BS, 2011
--------------------
Current game: DAOC
Games played and quit: L2, PlanetSide, RF Online, GuildWars, SWG, COH/COV, Vanguard, LOTRO, WoW, WW2 Online, FFXI, Auto-Assault, EVE Online, ShadowBane, RYL, Rappelz, Last Chaos, Myst Online, POTBS, EQ2, Warhammer Online, AoC, Aion, Champions Online, Star Trek Online, Allods, Darkfall.
Waiting on: Earthrise
Names: Citio, Goldie, Sportacus
WoW Killer? Next WoW?
No and No.
WoW is a unique game, in that it came at a great time as many MMO games at the time it released were often very buggy and had quirky things to learn. WoW was easy to learn, had minimal computer settings and was very polished at release. Combine with the fact that they piggy-backed off their successsful Warcraft RTS and you have what you have today. Just about anyone who liked PvE (and lets face it, most people prefer PvE) found the game they needed in WoW.
I suppose it is the cool thing to do to blast WoW, the people to play WoW, etc. but what MMO game has had that kind of success?
I think GW2 is making a big jump in MMO games by removing a dedicated healer class from the game and trying to remove the feeling of "grind", making things a bit more persistent-impact kind of environment and limiting the death-penalty. These are all very casual friendly advances in my opinion. The only thing they need to be sure of is to limit the game bugs at launch. I would assume since they already have GW1, that the bug list should be rather minimal for a sequel.
I certainly hope the GW2 concept of "no dedicated healer" and limited grind concepts are successful, and if it is we can look forward to more MMO games with these concepts.
I would not be suprised if GW2 sold 1 million copies at launch. From all the info and videos released so far it's looking to be a heavy contender in the MMO market.
Someone obviously wasn't on the WoW train at launch. WoW wasn't SUPER buggy (though there were QUITE a few major bugs) like some games but having to queue for hours to get in and when you did the random disconnects were enough to drive one absolutely insane. At the time, everyone was shouting how it was the end of WoW and blah blah. Blizzard manned up, took the complaints on the chin, and fixed every one of them. A mentality like this that seems to be lacking in quite a few MMO launches lately.
its true but blizzard cant copy the new dynamic story events, skill based pvp and new GW2 graphics. period.
however a WoW2 could do it....
i've played pvp guildwars for over 5 years now and the pvp has never been balanced, they are always adjusting skills.
They're always adjusting skills to keep a semblance of balance because people are always finding new ways to combine the thousands of skills available together with 8 dual profession characters in a team environment.
It would be difficult for a B2P to harm a P2P very much at all. With no sub you don't need to quit your "other" MMO.
Seriously tired of these constant comparisons to Warcraft. It's getting old and annoying. The popularity of WoW has left the MMO market stale and these type of topics don't help at all. It effectively builds up comparisons that destroy the game before it's even released.
It is about players free time. Which game will players choose to play for that 2 hours that have. It really isn't about what business model games use.
But that still doesn't explain how a free game threatens the ability for a mmo player to have 2 games available instead of one. I bet that many players here play more than 1 game at a time, but you would have us believe that players won't/can't manage their time to include 2 mmos. I disagree. Especially if one is easy on the wallet.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
GW2 the next WoW? No....
GW2 the next GW? Yes...
How is this confusing you?
oh god those things are a little annoying.
WOW cant die unless blizzard wants too. that means bring the servers down
There are 2 many people who spended countless hours grinding gear and dont want to move to a new game and start from 0 because then they ll see they are noob who dont know how to play the game without a gear advantage
losing=disapointment
Secondly there are million of little kids in wow who got no idea about gaming or that gw2 even exist they just found wow because blizzard wanted to catch such ppl for subscriptions
There's several scenarios; assuming a few obvious things such as as GW2 is fun/popular etc:
1. GW2 is a cut above and lots play it when it's new and, B2P-it but keep their old subs anyhow.
2. Later on a fork in the road, Either:
a) GW2 has no lasting value for some reason or at least it is too easy to do everything etc or the content is really great, but the replay is not so much, then ppl wander back to their regular P2P habits. b) GW2 is as good as P2P regular MMO and maintains as being as good. Some people will decide to save cash and unsub and others will need a new home and have found it and move on but others will think, "Hey got 2 for 1" and carrying on playing both equally or play a bit more etc. c) GW2 canes the P2P in everyway including making the previous MMO seem shallow and even the longevity of GW2 is very expansive then ppl will generally feel pushed and pulled to unsub from the other games except some ppl who have a really home of an MMO already.
So all the above will be likely, the extent though depends what sort of game GW2 is. But what is certain, is the B2P covers all bases as long as the quality and novelty is of a certain high standard, then those boxes will fly off the shelves which in turn could further drive it's success up. What does seem likely is that GW2 can be an MMO that is better and cheaper than a lot of P2P MMOs and that could change the market conditions a lot?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
You do know that the creators of GW2 are known on record to make their game even easier than WoW did when drawing from the EQ playing style right? That means that even the WoW "kids" will seem like geniuses when it comes to playing GW2. Yes, it will be that much easier to get into and play...
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
I think your over estimating Blizzard on this one.
I don't think you understand the scope of blizzard.
sry robert i gotta agree with jimmy on this one (half way at least) i dont think they couldnt copy GW2's ideas but its not something they could copy into wow the core game designs are incompatible, now if they were to make a WoW 2 (or whatever they would name their second mmo) yes they would incorporate them however faster than Anet? no
the reason i dont think they could do it faster than Anet is because they would have to do the programming from scratch (not to mention make the whole mmo so it could allow these ideas) i personaly think your just overestimating the human race in its ability to write code perfectly and with enough speed to outpace coders that are probably just as good as them, debugging code takes time because noone can anticipate exactly how a those thousands of pages of code are going to interact .
and WoW wouldnt copy them untill they decided it would make them money (therefore after its been proven to work in another game).
not every problem can be solved with blizzards massive piles of cash.
now on topic uhm no just no *walks away*
EDIT: post 100 yay
Will GW2 be as big as WoW?
Short answer: No!
Long answer: Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!
WoW is an anomaly in the MMO market, it's like a lightning striking twice at the exact same spot. It was pure change that when it came out it gathered such a huge playerbase. I mean look, only very few MMO's get over one million subs, or even half of that, but WoW already has over 10 million subscribers and surely it will grow when the next expansion comes out. That amount of players... it's just not normal. Don't get me wrong, all glory to the Blizzard. They are smart and big enought to keep the momentum of their game up and keep polishing it constantly, but like I said, it's almost purely by change that the game is as huge as it is.
Blizzard's name surely had something to do with the success (and the fact that when it was released it was propably THE most easily accessible and user friendly MMO in the market, for more hc players ofc) but if the launch had been, say, few years later I don't think it would be have so dominant place in the market. I think there simply wouldn't be any 10+ million subscriber MMO's in that case. When Blizzard's next MMO comes out I'm pretty sure it won't gather nearly as big following as WoW did. Several million subs, perhaps, but absolutely NOT anything in the league of WoW. I won't say nothing ever willl come to close to it, but propabilities are it won't happen anytime soon.
PS. Just for the record I currently play WoW and have been playing since it was released.
Touch the spindle...GW 2 will do really well. But wow has had how many years of polish to build a customer base?
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
What this dude said. WoW was an anomaly, and I second that we will probably never see another mmo (at least as mmos exist now) that reaches the same success.
Show me which core game designs prevent blizzard from drastically changing their game? They've proven through each expansion that they can modify and change the game drastically in a very short time.
I mean it's like people who claimed phasing wouldn't be possible for WoW, and blizzard started implementing that.
There is no element in GW2 that would be impossible for blizzard to code into their game, they are much more well-funded and have some of the best in the industry in their company.
You think dynamic events can't be implemented? They are scripted events just like everything else... they just have outcomes that trigger other scripted events.
There is nothing in WoW's coding that prevents blizzard from developing events that function the same way, as a matter of fact the death knight starting area was an example of how blizzard can have you play through content and then have that content effect your surroundings.
Because the death knight starting area was linear and you played through it and left, it did not have to be cyclical in nature, but if you think blizzard couldn't program it to them take steps back to reverting to a previous state you are delusional.
I see people claim "oh it just wouldn't work with WOW's mechanics" but they don't seem to have a grasp on how implementation works.
There is no special aspect to GW2 that could not be recoded into WoW and implemented similarly. If anything WoW's engine is far less limited than GW2's from a gameplay mechanic standpoint, graphically however it comes out short.
I think dilusional would be claiming that any past wow expansion changed the game drastically, or that it happened in a short amount of time.