I think FFXIV was destined to be a small niche MMORPG from the very start anyway so if this doesn't kill the game completely which I doubt it will, I think it'll just go on being what everyone thought it would be.
hey i know nice little fairytales too. let us all tell some. Numbers of players were taken i think at NA primetime whic h is not JPN primetime. but hey who gives a buck. now let's get on with ffxi: numbers decreased a LOT since ffxiv came out and most don't want to come back to 11. what does that tell ya?
nevermind if the CEO of SE tells you this and asures you for your own sake : that SE will cancel support for ffxiv if it doesnt improve, you can be absolutely certain everytime that this will happen. there is no doubt about it.
IF this game gets pulled down by SE yeah it's a shame and yeah we all know a mmo these days has to be better than this. but will they really pull the plug? why not just freeze accounts in EU and america and let just japanese people play? because many of them enjoy the game. and i am not talking about the people writing in forums how awful this game is or on their blogs. the vast majority of japanese people enjoy this game.
if it gets cancelled completely worldwide: shame. yes i really would have liked to play this game in march 2011 when it was supposed to launch for ps3. that would be a sad thing.
but even SE is stuborn there is a pretty high number of people that find this game not apealing and boring. And SE should have known better. way better.
if it comes to an end: sad but there were reasons for that.
Out of 630,000 boxes:
230,000 EU
210,000 US/NA
190,000 Japan
If they freeze NA/EU , then they might as well scrap the game altogether. The Japanese make up less than 1/3 of the total playerbase even BEFORE people started leaving.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
They will not scrap the game until at least 3-4 months after PS3 release.
If the game doesn't have a sustainable playerbase a few months after PS3 release, it never will.
That's 8 months from now. In those 8 months you will see content additions, including new classes. They have 8 months to make this work, or else SE will scrap it.
OR !!!!!
They realize the PS3 limitations are too great to overcome and they scrap it before the PS3 release (highly unlikely).
Stupid question maybe ... but how hard would it be to replace the FFXI graphics with the FFXIV ones?
The models can be converted/imported easily. The problem would be getting the engine to handle the enhanced vertex load and the textures. Not to mention the animation programming and some bone weighting problems between engines. Also I'm not sure if FF11 makes use of bumbmapping, normal maps, specularity maps and any other additional texture layers added. So pretty much I have no idea but there is a loooooong list of things that would have to be checked off.
I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a revamp of FFXI on a better graphics engine. Before, I would have said "ewww cheesy.." and preferred somethin brand-new. But with how FFXIV turned out... Yeah... just give me an updated XI lol.
My only request would be that they rewind it back to pre ToAU.... or better yet... Re-do ToAU in some way where Colibri parties are merely one *option* among many (including the old areas)... not the absolute. God that annoyed me. Freaking meripos.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I admittedly haven't played this one but I can't think of a bigger failure at launch. Like I said this is just from reading the forums but this one seems to have tanked faster than VG or STO even.
I'd argue no one expected "perfection" and that whole "oh people don't realize that all MMOs are rough at release and are expecting too much" doesn't really fit here.
The things that people are complaining about aren't bugs and glitches that were missed in Beta... They're things that SE has *deliberately* designed into the game. The UI isn't a "glitch" or "bug". The Market system isn't a "glitch" or "bug". The repetitive, copy and pasted terrain isn't a "glitch" or "bug"... And so on... Those are all things that are very deliberately part of the game's design. They are all things that people were saying going as far back as Alpha "Ahhh... we really don't like what you're doing here" and SE said, basically "Well, just bear with it. It'll all make sense after release".
Yes, the game is lacking content. Absolutely... it's extremely shallow in the content department and the way SE has - again, by design - placed arbitrary limitations on how said content is experienced doesn't help.
The only way you could argue "you need to give the game time to improve" is if, by that, you mean "give SE time to revamp numerous systems they completely botched on the first try... assuming they even bother"... which is pretty much exactly what people are left with.
/THREAD
Nothing else to discuss. He summed it up perfectly.
This is the latest example of developers who think they can just make the game however they want and expect people to play it. That works for single player games but not MMOs. Like it or not, MMOs MUST be a collaborative effort. Yes thats right. Developers HAVE to bring players onboard early in development and actually change the game based on feedback. There is a disturbing trend amongst MMO developers of bringing games to beta when they are pretty much finished and are unwilling to change anything. If they do this, they are doomed.
Sorry folks this game will not recover. It will also never make it to the PS3 release. Glad I saw this one coming and stayed clear.
To be fair, I think SE genuinely intended to make a fantastic game, that put a different twist on familiar MMO conventions and addressed the whole "problem" of there being a massive gap between players who play a lot and players who can't (though I don't personally agree any such "problem" exists... but that's for another thread)...
No developer *intends* to produce a failure of a game.
I will say, though, that I really think SE needed to pull their collective head out of their rear and realize some of what they were doing was in complete contradiction to what people were looking for and, indeed, to their own intentions. The Market for example.. They kept stating they wanted a lively, organic player driven market, and then implement a system (Market Wards with NPCs) that makes it as un-organic, stiff and uninteresting - not to mention cumbersome - as you can get. I honestly cannot fathom what they were thinking when they conceived, nevermind approved, the Market Ward idea.
It's like saying you want to start eating more healthy and avoid junk food... then spending the next month eating nothing but fast food. It just doesn't add up.
Anyway... I think the most pertinent statement/question that could be used to sum up the deal with FFXIV... something many have said, myself included, is "What the hell were they thinking?"
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'll take a stab at the "what the hell were they thinking" comment.
This is my theory. They lived in a cave for the last 8 years. They ONLY looked at FFXI as their inspiration. That would explain why they copied the development plan for it. Meaning, releasing it in an unfinished state as they did in Japan in 2002, I believe.
Now imagine, them in their development cave. They're oblivious to 8 years of MMO advancement. They have no idea how the market evolved, how the mmo consumer evolved. So, they came up with "revolutionary" ideas that would make FFXIV "different." Sadly, their only frame of reference was FFXI. They tried to beat the competition by thinking they would make the best game possible, without ever researching the competition or the consumer.
So when they came out of their cave, they yelled at the top of their lungs... "Look at our brilliant creation, look at all the cool things and the graphics, and the brilliance of the leve system..." The community had a different response... "Where they hell have you guys been for the last 8 years." That would explain the "what were they thinking part." Their frame of reference was completely wrong. It was their arrogance that blinded them to the competition and the evolution of the Genre. They believed, "if we build it they will come." They convinced themselves, "our vision of our game will not be tainted by finicky players who jsut 'dont' get."
I have also come to the realization that SE does not have an PC programmers. They are all PS3 programmers trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. That is why certain PC only games are seemless, while FFXIV UI is the monstrosity that it is.
What a great humbling experience for SE. This will either propel them to new heights, if they have the humility to change, adapt, and create anew. But if they remain the same arrogant developer with the "daddy's knows best" attitude, this game is doomed, (if not already).
SE, don't hold anything back. IF you have a years worth of content you're hiding for a rainy day... well that day is here and it's a Blizzard out there (no pun intended). Release everything you have for this game, streamline the UI, and make concessions or else your demise will be a sad tale in the history of game development.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
SE has run FFXI 8 damn years. If they didn't learn anything in all that time (and FFXIV proves they didn't), that's not our problem, it's theirs.
Nice try counselor, but your defense failed.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
The climate has changed, you either adapt or get left behind.
I'm not a young man anymore so i don't have the time to wait around for some things like i used to. I expect to get what i pay for or it's not worth my time. Call that spoiled if you wish, but i expect more than i did 10 years ago. Of course i saw this coming in beta so i didn't waste any money, but that doesn't mean i'm not disappointed.
You are absolutely correct in that if XI launched today it would have bombed exactly like XIV has. The issue is that SE doesn't understand that you can't get away with the same things you could 8 years ago.
Again i'm patient when it comes to content, but this game is beyond being saved by content.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
I think your dead wrong on this idea. I know a lot of folks who loved ffxi, and FF10. I still play ff10 with my oldest daughter as she loves that game. She remarked to me how bad FF13 was and how it was not even holding a candle to FF10. She says it seams they gotten away from the lore and the game and just turned out trash with FF13, now they did the same with FF14. Hoping that folks would be happy just to have a new FF name.
Name along does not guarantee your going to have a good game, and when you ignore you current player base you get what we have with FF13 and FF14 and that word is trash.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
I played UO on luanch - it was FANTASTIC!
I played WoW on launch and aside from some server stability and lag issues - it was FANTASTIC!
I played some EQ2 whilst on a vacation from WoW at EQ2's launach and it was.... um, you guessed it - FANTASTIC!
Those are exceptions - AOC, AION, WAR they had issues but seem to be returning better - becuase the devs listened to a a large degree and were invested in giving a good experience.
BUT - with the exception of AOC - they weren't bad to the same degree FFXIV is. FFXIV epitomizes lazy, cheap programming - I think that each zone - Sand, Forest, Snow and Plains ahve about 40 panels TOPS which are reused and reorganized. Granted they are pretty copy/paste panels, but the whole game is so boring and repetitive.
3 things keep me playing FFXIV -
1. Player graphics and animations are great - including armor/weapons. They are... um FANTASTIC!
2. Mob graphics are badass - i took a risky trip to the extremes of some high level corners of the map, and there is a giant salamander looking thing that is so cool in it's glistening texture, that I will keep playing to be able to kill it one day (sorry pretty bad guy).
3. I REALLY DO hold out some hope that they will do something dynamic and players will hit a switch that allows for airships and chocobos, etc. That it is not lazy, shitty, cheap programming at work - but actually a reward system for servers to get access to special content.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
SE has run FFXI 8 damn years. If they didn't learn anything in all that time (and FFXIV proves they didn't), that's not our problem, it's theirs.
Nice try counselor, but your defense failed.
The first few years of FFXI was not pretty, it took them two years.. to really get the game as good as it got. How people expect everything should be handed to them right away with a fucking MMORPG is absurb. If people don't have time to wait around anymore... they honestly should find a new goddamn hobby. Blame does go to SE, but honestly expecting everything should be a-ok and fine at launch is a load of bs..... and is our goddamn problem.
And saying we have no blame in any of this, is a wuss ass cop out.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
Wait so people expecting a somewhat complete and decent launch from a AAA developer with unlimited resources who also already has one major MMO under their belts a bad thing? Hell guess I am silly for going into a steakhouse and expecting them to serve steak is equally as silly.
Did you play FFXI??? It took them atleast 1 one year to get that game going in a solid direction. 2 years to really take it places, and have it hailed as one of everyones favorite MMO's. I don't care what the reason's are, and what SE is thinking. Given how they handled FFXI, FFXIV is looking like its being handled the same way. Was that a good thing now a day's.. no but im not about piss moan and bitch about... till i see SE actual takes the step of NOT making a effort.
Then laugh my ass off when the drones here, piss moan and bitch... because they forgot how it use to be like.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
I think your dead wrong on this idea. I know a lot of folks who loved ffxi, and FF10. I still play ff10 with my oldest daughter as she loves that game. She remarked to me how bad FF13 was and how it was not even holding a candle to FF10. She says it seams they gotten away from the lore and the game and just turned out trash with FF13, now they did the same with FF14. Hoping that folks would be happy just to have a new FF name.
Name along does not guarantee your going to have a good game, and when you ignore you current player base you get what we have with FF13 and FF14 and that word is trash.
AWESOME, i know plenty of people who loved FF13, and hated FFX...... so????????????????????? Thanks for sharing that with me, and telling me how wrong i am like a drone.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
Wait so people expecting a somewhat complete and decent launch from a AAA developer with unlimited resources who also already has one major MMO under their belts a bad thing? Hell guess I am silly for going into a steakhouse and expecting them to serve steak is equally as silly.
Did you play FFXI??? It took them atleast 1 one year to get that game going in a solid direction. 2 years to really take it places, and have it hailed as one of everyones favorite MMO's. I don't care what the reason's are, and what SE is thinking. Given how they handled FFXI, FFXIV is looking like its being handled the same way. Was that a good thing now a day's.. no but im not about piss moan and bitch about... till i see SE actual takes the step of NOT making a effort.
Then laugh my ass off when the drones here, piss moan and bitch... because they forgot how it use to be like.
So, SE took their sweet time learning lessons for FFXI...and it is looking like rather than learning from FFXI, they are doing the same old mistakes all over again. You find this acceptable? This is a strong indication that you are a fan boy that will accept any excuse.
Let's put this in context of managing an individual. You give that individual a task to perform. They have difficulty doing that task, but eventually figure it out. Now you give that same individual a very similar task to perform...and he repeats the same mistakes in the same order as last time. What would you do as that person's manager? If your answer is anything other than to fire the individual or reassign that individual to a mindless task (since they are incapable of learning), you really need help.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
I played UO on luanch - it was FANTASTIC!
I played WoW on launch and aside from some server stability and lag issues - it was FANTASTIC!
I played some EQ2 whilst on a vacation from WoW at EQ2's launach and it was.... um, you guessed it - FANTASTIC!
Those are exceptions - AOC, AION, WAR they had issues but seem to be returning better - becuase the devs listened to a a large degree and were invested in giving a good experience.
BUT - with the exception of AOC - they weren't bad to the same degree FFXIV is. FFXIV epitomizes lazy, cheap programming - I think that each zone - Sand, Forest, Snow and Plains ahve about 40 panels TOPS which are reused and reorganized. Granted they are pretty copy/paste panels, but the whole game is so boring and repetitive.
3 things keep me playing FFXIV -
1. Player graphics and animations are great - including armor/weapons. They are... um FANTASTIC!
2. Mob graphics are badass - i took a risky trip to the extremes of some high level corners of the map, and there is a giant salamander looking thing that is so cool in it's glistening texture, that I will keep playing to be able to kill it one day (sorry pretty bad guy).
3. I REALLY DO hold out some hope that they will do something dynamic and players will hit a switch that allows for airships and chocobos, etc. That it is not lazy, shitty, cheap programming at work - but actually a reward system for servers to get access to special content.
[Mod Edit]
____ epitomizes lazy, cheap programming.
A. Age of Conan
B. Warhammer Online
C. Aion
D. Champions Online
E. Star Trek Online
F. Vanguard
G. Everquest 2
H. SWG
I. World of Warcraft
J. Lord of the Rings (I could keep going on but im just going to stop here.)
K. All the Above
If you have selected all above, you won a stuffed PANDA!!!!
Some way to bigger degrees then otheres, each one of those games and many otheres... and it's dev's have shown great deals of lazy, cheap programming.
Some of those games only got better, because they were given time to get better...... hard concept to follow i know.
I still don't see your, choujiofkono's or anyones point in bashing this game. If you don't like it then don't play it and move along. Why the hate?
I guess there is no reason or you would have told me by now. It's just the thrill of bashing a game. In a few weeks when the other new games come out you probably move on to their forums.
It's really sad. I feel bad for you.
I think I can safely state that most of us don't like what we're seeing, and certainly don't enjoy seeing SE releasing such statement. In the perfect world, we would all be cheerfull in the games we like, and we're all looking forward to play a quality MMO we enjoy.
In this case, I believe we want to keep discussing about it because we feel concerned. We want to let them know that they need to improve the overall quality of their product, especially at release. Just take a look at the other super hyped games in development; there are often posts that sound like this: "OMG I cannot wait! Please release this game now!!", then followed by "I've learned my lesson from some previous released game and I'm ready to wait."
Finally, forums being forums (and so are any form of newstertainment), negative posts and comments always draw much more attention than positive ones. There are few good posts here, but they're not likely to provoke as much reaction or discussions as bad ones.
[Mod Edit]
I like to discuss issues about the game. I don't need some wild interpretations of what a CEO says, stock charts or any other crap. I don't need to hear yet another want to be journalist with a blog who played 10 minutes and his rantings. All these reviews where wrong in so many points they did not even look into the config menu. They just like to be negative cause that seems to be the big thing that gives you readers/hits.
I am playing the game. I don't see any problems with it except the laggy menus. I don't even have the time to do all the content in my 2-3h a day i can play. I won't hit 50 before the November or even December patch. I enjoy the story line so far and the idea behind the multiple class system, it's great.
The game is so unique it amazes me almost daily. Mobs behave intelligent. They use specific TP moves based on position of whoever has hate (deer like to kick me in the nuts with their hind legs when i stand behind them healing a tank). It needs a lot of strategy and positioning to bring down harder mobs.
But none of the haters and reviewers have even noticed that. I have never read about the unique ability of the black sheep which is not only genius but also extremely hillarious and fantastically animated.
I am done with this forum as it brings nothing to the game. I see you all when the hating for SW:TOR, Guildwars and the next WoW expansion starts.
"Give players systems and tools instead of rails and rules"
Ok, so I dummied in and bought this game. I played 11 for a while (yes, I am one of the three people who bought the PS2 hard drive version...) so I was curious to see how this one was.
Tried it for a while, but I think this game was irredeemable out of the gate, if even the faithful are bailing, it's done. Boring, bad interface, awkward character movement, the quest hubs are boring, travel back and forth to the city to get anything done gets repetitive and boring after the first few levels, I found nothing compelling about any of the classes, etc. I failed to find the story engaging at all, but then again, i was too busy just trying to get my guy to go where I wanted him to go to notice much of what was going on in the "omg is this on rails or what?", world. And I thought that aspect of 11 was bad? Controls were unresponsive, and felt disconnected. Like pushing the button was a suggestion that had to be considered before it could actually be performed...
I can't believe they had enough people playing this in beta if they really thought it was any good/worthy of release. If they really played it and thought it was going to be successful I would suggest they were delusional at best.
What a waste. Of time, money, resources, and most of all, their credibility. Who's going to take a chance on FFXXIX, or whatever the next one was going to be, after this one sucked so hard? I will know better next time, that's for sure.
None of these haters incl. the OP have played the game into the tweens. Thats when ALL other games start to take off. Yet they base their rants and negativity on the first 10 levels. That alone is a loss of all credibility for me and a waste of a post.
I like to discuss issues about the game. I don't need some wild interpretations of what a CEO says, stock charts or any other crap. I don't need to hear yet another want to be journalist with a blog who played 10 minutes and his rantings. All these reviews where wrong in so many points they did not even look into the config menu. They just like to be negative cause that seems to be the big thing that gives you readers/hits.
I am playing the game. I don't see any problems with it except the laggy menus. I don't even have the time to do all the content in my 2-3h a day i can play. I won't hit 50 before the November or even December patch. I enjoy the story line so far and the idea behind the multiple class system, it's great.
The game is so unique it amazes me almost daily. Mobs behave intelligent. They use specific TP moves based on position of whoever has hate (deer like to kick me in the nuts with their hind legs when i stand behind them healing a tank). It needs a lot of strategy and positioning to bring down harder mobs.
But none of the haters and reviewers have even noticed that. I have never read about the unique ability of the black sheep which is not only genius but also extremely hillarious and fantastically animated.
So sad that everyone is missing out on a great game just because they did not get another Theme park on rails easy mode MMO.
I am done with this forum as it brings nothing to the game. I see you all when the hating for SW:TOR, Guildwars and the next WoW expansion starts.
Well, thanks for your input. I think by entering any kind of communication channel where anyone is free to exchange, you have to expect some to post stuff in a way to provoke a reaction and those who post as a popularity contest. Then you have those who post replies that are appropriate, interesting or full of sense, but as usual, they don't provoke anyone to reply and end up ignored while everybody focuses on the inflammatory content.
Just in this thread, you started by saying that you disagree with the journalist's statement. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion. But then you called out choujiofkono about his posts. I agree that if feels like he's always posting stuff about FFXIV's demise, but it turned into a shouting match between choujiofkono, eyeswideopen and you.
Meanwhile, there was another interesting piece of information flying around regarding the server activity. Some debated the reliability of the source. Or its meaning about the number of active subscriptions. And there were few comments about whether FFXIV draw few customers from FFXI or not. All those interesting discussions went on, but were all shadowed about the eternal hater-lover debate (I don't really like using fanboy in a non-trolling way).
You need to filter out the fallacious and useless comments and focus on those few interesting posts... That applies on mmorpg.com (if you haven't thrown in the towel yet), on slashdot (though the threaded system + mod points help sorting out those bad posts), or whichever channel you decide to have any discussion :P
Expected too much ?? I wanted a game ... I got scraps. Sometimes people really dont know what is a minimum standard in MMO market...
Whoa now!
If you have paid attention to every launched game since about 2003 (at least) you would know the standard is to release total crap and have it be palatable after a year+ of patches. THAT is the minimum standard. Before that, people just dealt with whatever the game offered because the genre was fresh and had that new car smell. Now people expect more after playing games like WoW, that hit it's peak years after launch, and has that moment set as an example for how other games need to be right out of the gate. (I apologise for using WoW as a reference, honestly)
Am I the only one that's been paying attention to this or what?
Which is exactly why people should stop listening to the buzz marketing, stop buying unfinished products and start demanding that the game is ready and complete at release.
It's weird that so many people read alot of review before buying some things, but just dive straight in blind-folded when it comes to MMO's.
There is a reason for that. Many people feel that getting a late start is disadvantageous in an mmo so try to start on day 1 if at all. Plus there were many false reports that the problems were all fixed in a miracle patch in the last 10 days of beta. People were saying "wow the lag is completely gone"! Lies.
Comments
Out of 630,000 boxes:
230,000 EU
210,000 US/NA
190,000 Japan
If they freeze NA/EU , then they might as well scrap the game altogether. The Japanese make up less than 1/3 of the total playerbase even BEFORE people started leaving.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
They will not scrap the game until at least 3-4 months after PS3 release.
If the game doesn't have a sustainable playerbase a few months after PS3 release, it never will.
That's 8 months from now. In those 8 months you will see content additions, including new classes. They have 8 months to make this work, or else SE will scrap it.
OR !!!!!
They realize the PS3 limitations are too great to overcome and they scrap it before the PS3 release (highly unlikely).
I honestly wouldn't mind seeing a revamp of FFXI on a better graphics engine. Before, I would have said "ewww cheesy.." and preferred somethin brand-new. But with how FFXIV turned out... Yeah... just give me an updated XI lol.
My only request would be that they rewind it back to pre ToAU.... or better yet... Re-do ToAU in some way where Colibri parties are merely one *option* among many (including the old areas)... not the absolute. God that annoyed me. Freaking meripos.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I admittedly haven't played this one but I can't think of a bigger failure at launch. Like I said this is just from reading the forums but this one seems to have tanked faster than VG or STO even.
To be fair, I think SE genuinely intended to make a fantastic game, that put a different twist on familiar MMO conventions and addressed the whole "problem" of there being a massive gap between players who play a lot and players who can't (though I don't personally agree any such "problem" exists... but that's for another thread)...
No developer *intends* to produce a failure of a game.
I will say, though, that I really think SE needed to pull their collective head out of their rear and realize some of what they were doing was in complete contradiction to what people were looking for and, indeed, to their own intentions. The Market for example.. They kept stating they wanted a lively, organic player driven market, and then implement a system (Market Wards with NPCs) that makes it as un-organic, stiff and uninteresting - not to mention cumbersome - as you can get. I honestly cannot fathom what they were thinking when they conceived, nevermind approved, the Market Ward idea.
It's like saying you want to start eating more healthy and avoid junk food... then spending the next month eating nothing but fast food. It just doesn't add up.
Anyway... I think the most pertinent statement/question that could be used to sum up the deal with FFXIV... something many have said, myself included, is "What the hell were they thinking?"
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I'll take a stab at the "what the hell were they thinking" comment.
This is my theory. They lived in a cave for the last 8 years. They ONLY looked at FFXI as their inspiration. That would explain why they copied the development plan for it. Meaning, releasing it in an unfinished state as they did in Japan in 2002, I believe.
Now imagine, them in their development cave. They're oblivious to 8 years of MMO advancement. They have no idea how the market evolved, how the mmo consumer evolved. So, they came up with "revolutionary" ideas that would make FFXIV "different." Sadly, their only frame of reference was FFXI. They tried to beat the competition by thinking they would make the best game possible, without ever researching the competition or the consumer.
So when they came out of their cave, they yelled at the top of their lungs... "Look at our brilliant creation, look at all the cool things and the graphics, and the brilliance of the leve system..." The community had a different response... "Where they hell have you guys been for the last 8 years." That would explain the "what were they thinking part." Their frame of reference was completely wrong. It was their arrogance that blinded them to the competition and the evolution of the Genre. They believed, "if we build it they will come." They convinced themselves, "our vision of our game will not be tainted by finicky players who jsut 'dont' get."
I have also come to the realization that SE does not have an PC programmers. They are all PS3 programmers trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. That is why certain PC only games are seemless, while FFXIV UI is the monstrosity that it is.
What a great humbling experience for SE. This will either propel them to new heights, if they have the humility to change, adapt, and create anew. But if they remain the same arrogant developer with the "daddy's knows best" attitude, this game is doomed, (if not already).
SE, don't hold anything back. IF you have a years worth of content you're hiding for a rainy day... well that day is here and it's a Blizzard out there (no pun intended). Release everything you have for this game, streamline the UI, and make concessions or else your demise will be a sad tale in the history of game development.
No amount of content is going to save this game when it's flawed at it's core.
FFXIV cannot recover to even XI numbers unless the entire combat system, mechanics, and general lack of fun are completely revamped.
SE fails to understand that the day to day things such as exp'ing, questing, and grouping are way more important that some grand quest chain every 5-10 levels.
Funny thing is if SE was releasing FFXI day one right now... people would be saying the same damn thing right now. How flawed the combat, mechanics, and general fun of the game is. People in the western markets were spoiled with the release of FFXI, as that game was worthless as worthless when it came out in Japan.
People expect way to much now a day's, when not to long ago... most of everyone was lot more forgiving, and willing to give it time. It's sad, MMORPG's have grown to big for their own good. Media outlets that surround them, and the bigger spoiled brats the MMO consumer base has now... don't help matters at all. Cause if people think this supposed train wreck of bad MMO's is going to stop some day... they will be sadly dissapointed time and time again.
You are right.
It's so bad to expect good games at launch,what are we thinking?
We should p2p for alphas.
SE has run FFXI 8 damn years. If they didn't learn anything in all that time (and FFXIV proves they didn't), that's not our problem, it's theirs.
Nice try counselor, but your defense failed.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
The climate has changed, you either adapt or get left behind.
I'm not a young man anymore so i don't have the time to wait around for some things like i used to. I expect to get what i pay for or it's not worth my time. Call that spoiled if you wish, but i expect more than i did 10 years ago. Of course i saw this coming in beta so i didn't waste any money, but that doesn't mean i'm not disappointed.
You are absolutely correct in that if XI launched today it would have bombed exactly like XIV has. The issue is that SE doesn't understand that you can't get away with the same things you could 8 years ago.
Again i'm patient when it comes to content, but this game is beyond being saved by content.
I think your dead wrong on this idea. I know a lot of folks who loved ffxi, and FF10. I still play ff10 with my oldest daughter as she loves that game. She remarked to me how bad FF13 was and how it was not even holding a candle to FF10. She says it seams they gotten away from the lore and the game and just turned out trash with FF13, now they did the same with FF14. Hoping that folks would be happy just to have a new FF name.
Name along does not guarantee your going to have a good game, and when you ignore you current player base you get what we have with FF13 and FF14 and that word is trash.
I played UO on luanch - it was FANTASTIC!
I played WoW on launch and aside from some server stability and lag issues - it was FANTASTIC!
I played some EQ2 whilst on a vacation from WoW at EQ2's launach and it was.... um, you guessed it - FANTASTIC!
Those are exceptions - AOC, AION, WAR they had issues but seem to be returning better - becuase the devs listened to a a large degree and were invested in giving a good experience.
BUT - with the exception of AOC - they weren't bad to the same degree FFXIV is. FFXIV epitomizes lazy, cheap programming - I think that each zone - Sand, Forest, Snow and Plains ahve about 40 panels TOPS which are reused and reorganized. Granted they are pretty copy/paste panels, but the whole game is so boring and repetitive.
3 things keep me playing FFXIV -
1. Player graphics and animations are great - including armor/weapons. They are... um FANTASTIC!
2. Mob graphics are badass - i took a risky trip to the extremes of some high level corners of the map, and there is a giant salamander looking thing that is so cool in it's glistening texture, that I will keep playing to be able to kill it one day (sorry pretty bad guy).
3. I REALLY DO hold out some hope that they will do something dynamic and players will hit a switch that allows for airships and chocobos, etc. That it is not lazy, shitty, cheap programming at work - but actually a reward system for servers to get access to special content.
[Mod Edit]
Someone please make a good MMO.
The first few years of FFXI was not pretty, it took them two years.. to really get the game as good as it got. How people expect everything should be handed to them right away with a fucking MMORPG is absurb. If people don't have time to wait around anymore... they honestly should find a new goddamn hobby. Blame does go to SE, but honestly expecting everything should be a-ok and fine at launch is a load of bs..... and is our goddamn problem.
And saying we have no blame in any of this, is a wuss ass cop out.
Did you play FFXI??? It took them atleast 1 one year to get that game going in a solid direction. 2 years to really take it places, and have it hailed as one of everyones favorite MMO's. I don't care what the reason's are, and what SE is thinking. Given how they handled FFXI, FFXIV is looking like its being handled the same way. Was that a good thing now a day's.. no but im not about piss moan and bitch about... till i see SE actual takes the step of NOT making a effort.
Then laugh my ass off when the drones here, piss moan and bitch... because they forgot how it use to be like.
AWESOME, i know plenty of people who loved FF13, and hated FFX...... so????????????????????? Thanks for sharing that with me, and telling me how wrong i am like a drone.
So, SE took their sweet time learning lessons for FFXI...and it is looking like rather than learning from FFXI, they are doing the same old mistakes all over again. You find this acceptable? This is a strong indication that you are a fan boy that will accept any excuse.
Let's put this in context of managing an individual. You give that individual a task to perform. They have difficulty doing that task, but eventually figure it out. Now you give that same individual a very similar task to perform...and he repeats the same mistakes in the same order as last time. What would you do as that person's manager? If your answer is anything other than to fire the individual or reassign that individual to a mindless task (since they are incapable of learning), you really need help.
____ epitomizes lazy, cheap programming.
A. Age of Conan
B. Warhammer Online
C. Aion
D. Champions Online
E. Star Trek Online
F. Vanguard
G. Everquest 2
H. SWG
I. World of Warcraft
J. Lord of the Rings (I could keep going on but im just going to stop here.)
K. All the Above
If you have selected all above, you won a stuffed PANDA!!!!
Some way to bigger degrees then otheres, each one of those games and many otheres... and it's dev's have shown great deals of lazy, cheap programming.
Some of those games only got better, because they were given time to get better...... hard concept to follow i know.
[Mod Edit]
I like to discuss issues about the game. I don't need some wild interpretations of what a CEO says, stock charts or any other crap. I don't need to hear yet another want to be journalist with a blog who played 10 minutes and his rantings. All these reviews where wrong in so many points they did not even look into the config menu. They just like to be negative cause that seems to be the big thing that gives you readers/hits.
I am playing the game. I don't see any problems with it except the laggy menus. I don't even have the time to do all the content in my 2-3h a day i can play. I won't hit 50 before the November or even December patch. I enjoy the story line so far and the idea behind the multiple class system, it's great.
The game is so unique it amazes me almost daily. Mobs behave intelligent. They use specific TP moves based on position of whoever has hate (deer like to kick me in the nuts with their hind legs when i stand behind them healing a tank). It needs a lot of strategy and positioning to bring down harder mobs.
But none of the haters and reviewers have even noticed that. I have never read about the unique ability of the black sheep which is not only genius but also extremely hillarious and fantastically animated.
I am done with this forum as it brings nothing to the game. I see you all when the hating for SW:TOR, Guildwars and the next WoW expansion starts.
Ok, so I dummied in and bought this game. I played 11 for a while (yes, I am one of the three people who bought the PS2 hard drive version...) so I was curious to see how this one was.
Tried it for a while, but I think this game was irredeemable out of the gate, if even the faithful are bailing, it's done. Boring, bad interface, awkward character movement, the quest hubs are boring, travel back and forth to the city to get anything done gets repetitive and boring after the first few levels, I found nothing compelling about any of the classes, etc. I failed to find the story engaging at all, but then again, i was too busy just trying to get my guy to go where I wanted him to go to notice much of what was going on in the "omg is this on rails or what?", world. And I thought that aspect of 11 was bad? Controls were unresponsive, and felt disconnected. Like pushing the button was a suggestion that had to be considered before it could actually be performed...
I can't believe they had enough people playing this in beta if they really thought it was any good/worthy of release. If they really played it and thought it was going to be successful I would suggest they were delusional at best.
What a waste. Of time, money, resources, and most of all, their credibility. Who's going to take a chance on FFXXIX, or whatever the next one was going to be, after this one sucked so hard? I will know better next time, that's for sure.
Disappointed.
Well, thanks for your input. I think by entering any kind of communication channel where anyone is free to exchange, you have to expect some to post stuff in a way to provoke a reaction and those who post as a popularity contest. Then you have those who post replies that are appropriate, interesting or full of sense, but as usual, they don't provoke anyone to reply and end up ignored while everybody focuses on the inflammatory content.
Just in this thread, you started by saying that you disagree with the journalist's statement. That's a perfectly reasonable opinion. But then you called out choujiofkono about his posts. I agree that if feels like he's always posting stuff about FFXIV's demise, but it turned into a shouting match between choujiofkono, eyeswideopen and you.
Meanwhile, there was another interesting piece of information flying around regarding the server activity. Some debated the reliability of the source. Or its meaning about the number of active subscriptions. And there were few comments about whether FFXIV draw few customers from FFXI or not. All those interesting discussions went on, but were all shadowed about the eternal hater-lover debate (I don't really like using fanboy in a non-trolling way).
You need to filter out the fallacious and useless comments and focus on those few interesting posts... That applies on mmorpg.com (if you haven't thrown in the towel yet), on slashdot (though the threaded system + mod points help sorting out those bad posts), or whichever channel you decide to have any discussion :P
Lets cut out the baiting. Thanks.
What if I'm a master at it?
*snicker*
There is a reason for that. Many people feel that getting a late start is disadvantageous in an mmo so try to start on day 1 if at all. Plus there were many false reports that the problems were all fixed in a miracle patch in the last 10 days of beta. People were saying "wow the lag is completely gone"! Lies.