The only F2P MMO I played after the 7th grade was Allods Online, a few months ago before "the patch" that changed lots of things (for the wose? Dont know). I didn't pay anything and happily leveled my warrior from 1 to 40. I also performed fine and had fun with the PvP. Once I got to 40 (then the max level) after two months or so I just stopped playing, walked away and had just gotten 120 hours (I think) of free entertainment. Cost me $60 to get two months out of Warhammer Online.
What's so wrong is the OP probably only played DDO, LOTRO, and maybe the new EQ2.
If he tried the other hundreds of F2P games on MMORPG listing, he'll probably think another way.
Like he says most F2P MMORPG also offers 10$/15$/month subscription which gives almost everything. Please delite me with the list of MMORPG that have that except DDO, LOTRO, and EQ2.
- No box price (changes the numbers listed in the OP)
- In one month from starting out I would need $100+ worth of modules, races, and classes to experience the game content if I went F2P
Or I could pay $30 because I was able to see 95% of the game in two months (sans epic difficulty raiding).
I ran into a similar issue with LotRO where it turned out to be cheaper to pay a sub. Otherwise I would have to skip content thus reducing the quality of the gameplay.
Turbine is very clever. In both games I thought I could get away with F2P, then I found out I just needed $5.00 worth of TP's, but then days later I realized i needed more and it would make more sense to subscribe. Taking the initial $5.00 into account I ended up spending more than $15.00/mo while playing them.
ok ,please.......... hear me :
i was a fan of dungeon and dragon(genre), i played ice wind dale, baldur gate, NwN and etcc.. when DDO was out, i bought it immediately.
(let's skip why i left the game)
yrs later, i heard of they went f2p. so i downloaded and tried and was VERY disaapointed. have to pay this pay that pay everything...come on man, i was once a customer, i bought the box, i paid for the subscribtion what about some discount?..but they dont care, they just want you money.
so , i took a video and it pretty summarize how i felt, please enjoy :
The best deal I ever made with a game was no F2P game at all. I have never got more value for my money than in Guildwars. I bought all 4 boxes but not a thing more and played it for 4 years.
The F2P games tend to become rather expensive if you play it higher up.
The best deal I ever made with a game was no F2P game at all. I have never got more value for my money than in Guildwars. I bought all 4 boxes but not a thing more and played it for 4 years.
The F2P games tend to become rather expensive if you play it higher up.
So I prefer B2P to both F2P and P2P.
the only B2P game i have is TDU2.. so while im not a big fan of Guildwars.. i can appreciate that its far better value than so called F2P games, i think with P2P you really have to find a game that ticks all the boxes, as the investment of time and money. is more significant than B2P, F2P however, tend to be money pits, and i'd rather not have my gaming experience limited by the amount of cash i can throw at something...
I've been a f2p gamer more than a p2p gamer over the last few years and the only money I've spent were 10 bucks on the -now closed- Exteel from NCsoft. I've also been playing LoL heavily for over a year now and haven't spent anything yet.
the only B2P game i have is TDU2.. so while im not a big fan of Guildwars.. i can appreciate that its far better value than so called F2P games, i think with P2P you really have to find a game that ticks all the boxes, as the investment of time and money. is more significant than B2P, F2P however, tend to be money pits, and i'd rather not have my gaming experience limited by the amount of cash i can throw at something...
Well, it is the model as itself we talk about here.
At least in GW they have a RMT shop now (didn't before) but they are selling Char slots, extra bank space and costumes (without stats) in it. That is in fact less than they sell in Wow and EQ2s cash shops. The also have released 2 full campaigns and an expansion besides the original game.
So if I can choose I prefer if that kind of model to both P2P and F2P.
The payment method that annoy me most is P2P with RMT shop.
Just assume that it is the same game we are talking about with different payment options.
The whole thing that comes down to how much it costs to actually play a F2P is the person.
F2P games are absolutely spectacular in my mind because there are absolutely no restrictions for entry into the game. In most games you can also get to end game without having to spend a single dime on it. This all comes down to a person's ability to have a little self restraint.
F2P games are focused on impulse purchasing. Human's in general are all about instant gratification. When a person hits a wall in a f2p game they are usually able to spend a little bit of money to get a ladder to go over that wall. Deco items as well are geared towards getting people to purchase things without really thinking about it. They get the "oh that is nice, I need it now." factor going and someone will splurge. Now, when they have numerous releases in the item shop per month, someone can rack up some pretty high spending on f2p. I know a friend that was in my guild in Ether Saga Online who literally spent 600-1000$ USD a month for 5-6 months on the game.
If you have the time and self retraint, f2p is the way to go. If you are an impulse buyer who can't put the plastic down, just say no :-)
I would buy gold for WoW or EQ2 before I would buy anything from a cash shop.
When subbing to WoW or EQ2 you at the very least know you are getting a decent quality product. I have played many F2P games and none of them every had a quality feel to it and I felt that spending 5$ would mean I already overpaid. The only F2P out there IMO that has a decent feel to it is Allods but that isnt saying much.
I just dont see the value in spending anything on a f2p MMO when the amount needed to spend doesnt match up with the quality of the game.
Do you not realize that EQ2, LOTRO, and DDO are all F2P games now???
F2P certainly does NOT mean crappy. Those three titles are from AAA companies, and they're AAA games.
Hell, look at the IP's behind them. Lord of the RIngs. Dungeons & Dragons. Everquest. Thats definitely AAA F2P, and certainly not crap.
I love when this retort comes up.
I'm sure it's already been noted, but those 3 games were all conceived, designed and released as P2P MMOs. Hence, they are designed around the idea of keeping people entertained for months or years and, thus, have to earn the subscription fee of their players each and every month to keep going.
They're better quality than the typical F2P MMO because they were originally designed as P2P, not as F2P. Funny how that works, isn't it?
It's also great when someone pro-F2P makes this comment, because it is more damning of F2P MMOs than it is supportive.
DDO was designed as a P2P MMO. It was failing, badly. Why? It wasn't good enough to be worth a subscription to enough people to maintain it. Turbine made the switch to F2P/Hybrid as a gamble to keep it going. It worked.
Regardless... when a MMO that was failing as a P2P MMO is being hailed as proof of "quality AAA MMOs in F2P space"... it's pretty damning for the rest of the F2P market.
There's a reason P2P MMOs are generally considered higher quality than F2P. It's not a coincidence. Good P2P MMOs focus on giving players deeper gameplay, more long-term goals and an overall more engaging experience... things to keep them entertained and wanting to log in for the long-term. Again, a P2P developer has to earn its players' subscription fee every month.
Why did they switch LoTRO to F2P? Because they saw how, by nickel and diming their players, they could potentially get more money.
Why did SOE switch EQ2 to that model? Well, SOE would sell their own mothers if they thought it would bring in more $$$. Smedley has lied, or made promises only to reneg on them later, multiple times.
Your OP is a wonderful spin at damning the P2P model. But it's only that.... Spin.
You pay for the box once. That is, the disc, the box, the packaging, all the content, etc. The first month is included so... I could agree with you for the first month in that on a $50 game, the actual game purchase is $35, and the additional $15 is for the first month. I'm not convinced that's how it works, there's no evidence to prove it, and so to assert it as such is pure conjecture.
The subscription fee after that is for the on-going service. MMORPGs are not only games, they are an online service. An online service has on-going costs associated with it - beyond the game, the bandwidth and all that. Developers have all the same overhead any other software developer, or business in general, has. So, in addition to ongoing content updates in some situations, that's what you're paying for.
There's a book called "Developing Online Games" that goes into it and explains the setup. I have a copy and it's a great read. Beyond that, there are articles out there that explain the same thing.
F2P/Cash Shop MMOs can do what they do because:
A) They typically digitally distribute their games, which means no incurred costs - up-front, or over time - for pressing discs, printing boxes, printing manuals, shipping, etc. etc. That saves them a lot of money off the top, both in the short term, and the long term. Since they're paying almost nothing for digital distribution (beyond the bandwidth required to transmit the client), they can, in turn, provide the client for free.
Any F2P MMO developer who decided to put out a boxed version of their client would not be telling the stores, "Let people take them for free". There would be a price tag on them, just like any P2P MMO, or any other commercial game. You pay nothing for the client because they have payed relatively next to nothing to get it to you.
Even some P2P MMOs have offered their client as a free download if you don't buy the boxed version. Or, at the least, they offer it at a significantly reduced price. $10 or $20 instead of $50, etc.... and they still include the free month.
They make their money by designing their games with deliberate obstacles and inconveniences... for which they can dangle convenient and "inexpensive" solutions to in front of their players. Not leveling fast enough? Buy some xp potions! Dying too often when out fighting and/or finding there's too much down-time? Buy some nifty HP potions! Running out of mana too much and it's getting you in hot water and/or causing too much down-time? Buy some nifty Mana potions! Not enough bag space and the game keeps throwing items at you to carry around? Buy some more bag space! Travel too slow and the transportation provided doesn't quite cut it? Buy faster transportation!! And on and on and on...
F2P MMOs are set up to prey on people's impulsive natures; the need to "have now and do now rather than later". And by setting the average perceived price-point as low as they do, people don't really think anything of it. What's $5 here and there for some potions? What's $3 here and there for something else?
F2P MMOs are set up to exploit people's impatience, need for "social status" even in a virtual environment and, so on.
Here's a wonderful presentation another poster on this site linked a little while back. It demonstrates how F2P/Cash Shops work and why they're used. This is what you are supporting. There are others like it to be seen.
Speaking of money, they further obfuscate what they're doing by hiding the actual cost of items behind a "points" system of some kind. You have to buy the points in packages and, in my experience, the package amounts always seem rather offset to the point cost of more desirable items. The net effect being, people will tend to have to either buy more expensive point packages, getting more points than they actually needed; or they buy smaller ones more often to make up the difference, in order to consistently get what they want. I noticed this consistently when I was checking out F2P MMOs and seeing how things were structured in their cash shops.
And what do they do to further entice you to pull out the credit card? They throw things at you for the first 20-30 levels or so. Faster transportation, HP charms, MP charms, xp potions, etc. etc. Everything they're going to be charging you money for down the road is thrown at you like candy for those first levels. Why? So you become dependent on them. Someone who's spent 20+ levels progressing at a certain pace, little downtime or slow-down is going to be *much* more prepared to purchase some cash shop points when the freebies stop coming and they find their leveling rate has suddenly dropped substantially, the mobs seem to have become harder and they don't have the supply of HP and MP potions they had before... And that's what they count on.
As a final note. No matter how much or little I play or how much I choose to do when playing a P2P MMO... I pay the same subscription fee every month. Consistently. No worry about having to buy "this and that" with real money... I can get everything I need by playing the game. I pay the same fee as everyone else, have access to all the same content as everyone else, and have the choice to play exactly as I want without paying a dime more or a dime less to do so... like everyone else. As it should be.
In a F2P MMO, there is no ceiling. How you play the game is very much tied up in how much money you're willing or can afford to spend on the game. I'm by no means a "hardcore" player. I play a lot, but I play very casually when I do. I still found that I had a difficult time playing at my pace without having to buy points to purchase things. I had to slow down my already slow pace to do so. All the while, ads for "sale on HP potions!" were popping up on various screens, during gameplay, during login, etc. Again, there is no ceiling in F2P MMOs... and the developers' goal is to get you to spend as much as they possibly can. You try to twist P2P MMOs into being "not as cheap as they sound"? There are people who play F2P MMOs who blow through what you listed in your "1 year example" inside of a couple months.
So... again... as I said. Nice attempt at spinning F2P. But that's all it is... Spin.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
no matter how cheap, crap game is just crap game. don't forget that even if you don't spend any money on it, your time has value.
now, i'm not saying F2P is bad of itself. it's great to try out and see if you want to play or not. just don't get caught on the "free" factor. there ain't no such things as a free lunch.
the problem of the F2P games is that there are 2 decent ones (DDO and LotR) that seem to be honest and provide solid entertainment, and there are hundreds upon hundreds others that are simply money sink holes, generic, bland, pitiful, pathetic and sponsoring money grabbing game impacting cash shops.
you shouldnt preach that F2P games are good, you should preach that DDO and LotR are good and that the rest of F2Ps should follow that model.
alas they arent, the average F2P we all know is an asian crap fest with less entertainment value than a rock featuring a TERRIBLE balance between paying and non paying customers.
if you boldly support F2P games you arent supporting DDO and LotR, you are supporting those. be careful.
I'm sure it's already been noted, but those 3 games were all conceived, designed and released as P2P MMOs. Hence, they are designed around the idea of keeping people entertained for months or years and, thus, have to earn the subscription fee of their players each and every month to keep going.
They're better quality than the typical F2P MMO because they were originally designed as P2P. Funny how that works, isn't it?
It's also great when someone pro-F2P makes this comment, because it is more damning of F2P MMOs than it is supportive.
DDO was designed as a P2P MMO. It was failing, badly. Why? It wasn't good enough to be worth a subscription to enough people to maintain it. Turbine made the switch to F2P/Hybrid as a gamble to keep it going. It worked.
Indeed and then there is the way these games age, having brought little fresh or original to the table themselves aside from the superficial adherence to their IP they age very badly. The massive front loaded investment in developing a game or mmo has no way of existing on the f2p model (people absurdly assume shifting a retail box compensates for 5 years of development, testing and marketing are in cloud cookoo) and if you examine the examples we have its clear f2p boils down to grindy simplistic time sink mmos littered between a small spattering of mmo's that are simply past their sell by date.
The mmo field is close to stagnation, the same crowd are spreading between more and more games because real innovation and commitment are undermined by our desire to get something for nothing....creativity and imagination are being shafted because so many are just happy to feed an addcition, they wander between any and all mmos regardless of features or theme and don't stay anywhere for long enough for it to stabalise. Rather than being some great new future for mmos I see the f2p model as more an example of its decay, a way to exploit those death throes - the game nolonger has to engage the player because the cash shop instead favours exploiting greed and envy at a very superficial level - the whole motivation and ambition of the mmo changes and if it succeeds the larger message is a cut and run mentality that can only be detrimental to future development.
In my experience with F2P it has never been better nor cheaper. One of two things happens... its either cheaper to buy the sub given the length of the game's content or its an inferior game. If I had ever seen a F2P game that matched subscription games in quality AND was cheaper than the sub then I'd be supporting them, but this has never happened.
DDO
- No box price (changes the numbers listed in the OP)
- In one month from starting out I would need $100+ worth of modules, races, and classes to experience the game content if I went F2P
Or I could pay $30 because I was able to see 95% of the game in two months (sans epic difficulty raiding).
I ran into a similar issue with LotRO where it turned out to be cheaper to pay a sub. Otherwise I would have to skip content thus reducing the quality of the gameplay.
Turbine is very clever. In both games I thought I could get away with F2P, then I found out I just needed $5.00 worth of TP's, but then days later I realized i needed more and it would make more sense to subscribe. Taking the initial $5.00 into account I ended up spending more than $15.00/mo while playing them.
Runes of Magic
- The gameplay was inferior to WoW in every way. There was no reason I would ever prefer playing RoM to WoW.
I know there are a lot of kids out there that simply can't afford a subscription. For them playing a lower quality game might be fine, but even with a subscription, MMOG's are already one of the most cost effective forms of entertainment available.
{mod edit}
congrats for being the cause of pc games not getting attention.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
Consider me someone who would LOVE for this idea about F2P's being cheaper to be true.
I even think I am the perfect candidate for it to work like you say it should.
- I don't play alot. I play maybe 2-3 hrs for a couple days out of the week. more on the weekends, or late at night. but i may go a week or more without playing. I make movies in my spare time, and that eats up a large chunk of mmo time, as well as being married and having a kid.
But, I've yet to find a F2P game, that I could play where I could spend very little, and it have = quality to its P2P counterparts. All the ones I've tried (minus the AAA P2P converts) all seemed shallow and full of bots compared to the P2P games. I like PVP, and I'd love to find a strong F2P PVP game, but all the ones I've tried either sucked gameplay wise, or made you spend tons to be competitive.
Prove me wrong.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
In my experience with F2P it has never been better nor cheaper.
Just wanted to reiterate this point for emphasis.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
raystantzFinal Fantasy XI CorrespondentMemberUncommonPosts: 1,237
Originally posted by Robokapp
League of Legends while not an MMO has no dollar-dependency in its gameplay. Perhaps you should consider it if you liked DotA.
thats more of a RTS than an MMO, not really my cup of tea.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
In my experience with F2P it has never been better nor cheaper. One of two things happens... its either cheaper to buy the sub given the length of the game's content or its an inferior game. If I had ever seen a F2P game that matched subscription games in quality AND was cheaper than the sub then I'd be supporting them, but this has never happened.
DDO
- No box price (changes the numbers listed in the OP)
- In one month from starting out I would need $100+ worth of modules, races, and classes to experience the game content if I went F2P
Or I could pay $30 because I was able to see 95% of the game in two months (sans epic difficulty raiding).
I ran into a similar issue with LotRO where it turned out to be cheaper to pay a sub. Otherwise I would have to skip content thus reducing the quality of the gameplay.
Turbine is very clever. In both games I thought I could get away with F2P, then I found out I just needed $5.00 worth of TP's, but then days later I realized i needed more and it would make more sense to subscribe. Taking the initial $5.00 into account I ended up spending more than $15.00/mo while playing them.
Runes of Magic
- The gameplay was inferior to WoW in every way. There was no reason I would ever prefer playing RoM to WoW.
I know there are a lot of kids out there that simply can't afford a subscription. For them playing a lower quality game might be fine, but even with a subscription, MMOG's are already one of the most cost effective forms of entertainment available.
I'd say piracy is the most cost effective overall.. I honestly can't say I have bought a pc game in years that was not a mmorpg (last one i bought was aion and that was a waste of money), 99% aren't worth buying.. So I usually just download em, clear em then delete em.
congrats for being the cause of pc games not getting attention.
They destroying whole pc gaming market:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I can't believe the number of people here living in denial that DDO, LOTRO, EQ2, and CO are all F2P games.
It's a FACT that these games ARE F2P. I don't need to have "experience" playing other F2P games to say what I said and be correct in saying it. However, I've played tons of F2P games that were not these four, so it is irrelevant. These other games do not change my mind.
People here are failing to realize that F2P is becoming quite popular, and that just because a AAA title goes F2P doesn't mean it isn't ... F2P... because it is.
Let me make ths VERY simple guys...
DDO = F2P.
LOTRO = F2P.
EQ2 = F2P.
CO = F2P.
F2P = Good because of my OP.
But most of all...and as much as you want to deny this incredibly simple fact...
F2P = F2P
It doesn't get any more simple! Free 2 Play means the game is Free 2 Play.
DDO isn't somehow not F2P because it is Free 2 Play....
You can't argue around this or ignore it, nor can you say "Those games don't count!"
Ask yourself one question, DDO, EQ2, CO, LOTRO...
Are they Free?
YES!
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.
Comments
You don't have to justify your like for F2P games OP.
And theres' no reason to disparage players that like B2P or P2P games.
People like different games, like they prefer different flavors of ice cream.
Enjoy what you like. Don't worry if others enjoy something different.
I don't like f2p
The only F2P MMO I played after the 7th grade was Allods Online, a few months ago before "the patch" that changed lots of things (for the wose? Dont know). I didn't pay anything and happily leveled my warrior from 1 to 40. I also performed fine and had fun with the PvP. Once I got to 40 (then the max level) after two months or so I just stopped playing, walked away and had just gotten 120 hours (I think) of free entertainment. Cost me $60 to get two months out of Warhammer Online.
I like f2p.
What's so wrong is the OP probably only played DDO, LOTRO, and maybe the new EQ2.
If he tried the other hundreds of F2P games on MMORPG listing, he'll probably think another way.
Like he says most F2P MMORPG also offers 10$/15$/month subscription which gives almost everything. Please delite me with the list of MMORPG that have that except DDO, LOTRO, and EQ2.
ok ,please.......... hear me :
i was a fan of dungeon and dragon(genre), i played ice wind dale, baldur gate, NwN and etcc.. when DDO was out, i bought it immediately.
(let's skip why i left the game)
yrs later, i heard of they went f2p. so i downloaded and tried and was VERY disaapointed. have to pay this pay that pay everything...come on man, i was once a customer, i bought the box, i paid for the subscribtion what about some discount?..but they dont care, they just want you money.
so , i took a video and it pretty summarize how i felt, please enjoy :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBmvLje5tQ
Which FF Character Are You?
Yes it's pay to win. For me, this perverts the meaning of a game.
Let's say we play poker, and half into the game, you go out and buy better cards. The game is completely destroyed and meaningless.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
The best deal I ever made with a game was no F2P game at all. I have never got more value for my money than in Guildwars. I bought all 4 boxes but not a thing more and played it for 4 years.
The F2P games tend to become rather expensive if you play it higher up.
So I prefer B2P to both F2P and P2P.
the only B2P game i have is TDU2.. so while im not a big fan of Guildwars.. i can appreciate that its far better value than so called F2P games, i think with P2P you really have to find a game that ticks all the boxes, as the investment of time and money. is more significant than B2P, F2P however, tend to be money pits, and i'd rather not have my gaming experience limited by the amount of cash i can throw at something...
I've been a f2p gamer more than a p2p gamer over the last few years and the only money I've spent were 10 bucks on the -now closed- Exteel from NCsoft. I've also been playing LoL heavily for over a year now and haven't spent anything yet.
Well, it is the model as itself we talk about here.
At least in GW they have a RMT shop now (didn't before) but they are selling Char slots, extra bank space and costumes (without stats) in it. That is in fact less than they sell in Wow and EQ2s cash shops. The also have released 2 full campaigns and an expansion besides the original game.
So if I can choose I prefer if that kind of model to both P2P and F2P.
The payment method that annoy me most is P2P with RMT shop.
Just assume that it is the same game we are talking about with different payment options.
Thumbs up for F2P
It made me - casual player - can play any MMO i want - and when i want to play it
Not just one MMO , and bite my lip everytime i dont play and waste that 15$ subscription
The whole thing that comes down to how much it costs to actually play a F2P is the person.
F2P games are absolutely spectacular in my mind because there are absolutely no restrictions for entry into the game. In most games you can also get to end game without having to spend a single dime on it. This all comes down to a person's ability to have a little self restraint.
F2P games are focused on impulse purchasing. Human's in general are all about instant gratification. When a person hits a wall in a f2p game they are usually able to spend a little bit of money to get a ladder to go over that wall. Deco items as well are geared towards getting people to purchase things without really thinking about it. They get the "oh that is nice, I need it now." factor going and someone will splurge. Now, when they have numerous releases in the item shop per month, someone can rack up some pretty high spending on f2p. I know a friend that was in my guild in Ether Saga Online who literally spent 600-1000$ USD a month for 5-6 months on the game.
If you have the time and self retraint, f2p is the way to go. If you are an impulse buyer who can't put the plastic down, just say no :-)
I love when this retort comes up.
I'm sure it's already been noted, but those 3 games were all conceived, designed and released as P2P MMOs. Hence, they are designed around the idea of keeping people entertained for months or years and, thus, have to earn the subscription fee of their players each and every month to keep going.
They're better quality than the typical F2P MMO because they were originally designed as P2P, not as F2P. Funny how that works, isn't it?
It's also great when someone pro-F2P makes this comment, because it is more damning of F2P MMOs than it is supportive.
DDO was designed as a P2P MMO. It was failing, badly. Why? It wasn't good enough to be worth a subscription to enough people to maintain it. Turbine made the switch to F2P/Hybrid as a gamble to keep it going. It worked.
Regardless... when a MMO that was failing as a P2P MMO is being hailed as proof of "quality AAA MMOs in F2P space"... it's pretty damning for the rest of the F2P market.
There's a reason P2P MMOs are generally considered higher quality than F2P. It's not a coincidence. Good P2P MMOs focus on giving players deeper gameplay, more long-term goals and an overall more engaging experience... things to keep them entertained and wanting to log in for the long-term. Again, a P2P developer has to earn its players' subscription fee every month.
Why did they switch LoTRO to F2P? Because they saw how, by nickel and diming their players, they could potentially get more money.
Why did SOE switch EQ2 to that model? Well, SOE would sell their own mothers if they thought it would bring in more $$$. Smedley has lied, or made promises only to reneg on them later, multiple times.
Your OP is a wonderful spin at damning the P2P model. But it's only that.... Spin.
You pay for the box once. That is, the disc, the box, the packaging, all the content, etc. The first month is included so... I could agree with you for the first month in that on a $50 game, the actual game purchase is $35, and the additional $15 is for the first month. I'm not convinced that's how it works, there's no evidence to prove it, and so to assert it as such is pure conjecture.
The subscription fee after that is for the on-going service. MMORPGs are not only games, they are an online service. An online service has on-going costs associated with it - beyond the game, the bandwidth and all that. Developers have all the same overhead any other software developer, or business in general, has. So, in addition to ongoing content updates in some situations, that's what you're paying for.
There's a book called "Developing Online Games" that goes into it and explains the setup. I have a copy and it's a great read. Beyond that, there are articles out there that explain the same thing.
F2P/Cash Shop MMOs can do what they do because:
A) They typically digitally distribute their games, which means no incurred costs - up-front, or over time - for pressing discs, printing boxes, printing manuals, shipping, etc. etc. That saves them a lot of money off the top, both in the short term, and the long term. Since they're paying almost nothing for digital distribution (beyond the bandwidth required to transmit the client), they can, in turn, provide the client for free.
Any F2P MMO developer who decided to put out a boxed version of their client would not be telling the stores, "Let people take them for free". There would be a price tag on them, just like any P2P MMO, or any other commercial game. You pay nothing for the client because they have payed relatively next to nothing to get it to you.
Even some P2P MMOs have offered their client as a free download if you don't buy the boxed version. Or, at the least, they offer it at a significantly reduced price. $10 or $20 instead of $50, etc.... and they still include the free month.
F2P MMOs are set up to prey on people's impulsive natures; the need to "have now and do now rather than later". And by setting the average perceived price-point as low as they do, people don't really think anything of it. What's $5 here and there for some potions? What's $3 here and there for something else?
F2P MMOs are set up to exploit people's impatience, need for "social status" even in a virtual environment and, so on.
Here's a wonderful presentation another poster on this site linked a little while back. It demonstrates how F2P/Cash Shops work and why they're used. This is what you are supporting. There are others like it to be seen.
Speaking of money, they further obfuscate what they're doing by hiding the actual cost of items behind a "points" system of some kind. You have to buy the points in packages and, in my experience, the package amounts always seem rather offset to the point cost of more desirable items. The net effect being, people will tend to have to either buy more expensive point packages, getting more points than they actually needed; or they buy smaller ones more often to make up the difference, in order to consistently get what they want. I noticed this consistently when I was checking out F2P MMOs and seeing how things were structured in their cash shops.
And what do they do to further entice you to pull out the credit card? They throw things at you for the first 20-30 levels or so. Faster transportation, HP charms, MP charms, xp potions, etc. etc. Everything they're going to be charging you money for down the road is thrown at you like candy for those first levels. Why? So you become dependent on them. Someone who's spent 20+ levels progressing at a certain pace, little downtime or slow-down is going to be *much* more prepared to purchase some cash shop points when the freebies stop coming and they find their leveling rate has suddenly dropped substantially, the mobs seem to have become harder and they don't have the supply of HP and MP potions they had before... And that's what they count on.
As a final note. No matter how much or little I play or how much I choose to do when playing a P2P MMO... I pay the same subscription fee every month. Consistently. No worry about having to buy "this and that" with real money... I can get everything I need by playing the game. I pay the same fee as everyone else, have access to all the same content as everyone else, and have the choice to play exactly as I want without paying a dime more or a dime less to do so... like everyone else. As it should be.
In a F2P MMO, there is no ceiling. How you play the game is very much tied up in how much money you're willing or can afford to spend on the game. I'm by no means a "hardcore" player. I play a lot, but I play very casually when I do. I still found that I had a difficult time playing at my pace without having to buy points to purchase things. I had to slow down my already slow pace to do so. All the while, ads for "sale on HP potions!" were popping up on various screens, during gameplay, during login, etc. Again, there is no ceiling in F2P MMOs... and the developers' goal is to get you to spend as much as they possibly can. You try to twist P2P MMOs into being "not as cheap as they sound"? There are people who play F2P MMOs who blow through what you listed in your "1 year example" inside of a couple months.
So... again... as I said. Nice attempt at spinning F2P. But that's all it is... Spin.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
no matter how cheap, crap game is just crap game. don't forget that even if you don't spend any money on it, your time has value.
now, i'm not saying F2P is bad of itself. it's great to try out and see if you want to play or not. just don't get caught on the "free" factor. there ain't no such things as a free lunch.
the problem of the F2P games is that there are 2 decent ones (DDO and LotR) that seem to be honest and provide solid entertainment, and there are hundreds upon hundreds others that are simply money sink holes, generic, bland, pitiful, pathetic and sponsoring money grabbing game impacting cash shops.
you shouldnt preach that F2P games are good, you should preach that DDO and LotR are good and that the rest of F2Ps should follow that model.
alas they arent, the average F2P we all know is an asian crap fest with less entertainment value than a rock featuring a TERRIBLE balance between paying and non paying customers.
if you boldly support F2P games you arent supporting DDO and LotR, you are supporting those. be careful.
Indeed and then there is the way these games age, having brought little fresh or original to the table themselves aside from the superficial adherence to their IP they age very badly. The massive front loaded investment in developing a game or mmo has no way of existing on the f2p model (people absurdly assume shifting a retail box compensates for 5 years of development, testing and marketing are in cloud cookoo) and if you examine the examples we have its clear f2p boils down to grindy simplistic time sink mmos littered between a small spattering of mmo's that are simply past their sell by date.
The mmo field is close to stagnation, the same crowd are spreading between more and more games because real innovation and commitment are undermined by our desire to get something for nothing....creativity and imagination are being shafted because so many are just happy to feed an addcition, they wander between any and all mmos regardless of features or theme and don't stay anywhere for long enough for it to stabalise. Rather than being some great new future for mmos I see the f2p model as more an example of its decay, a way to exploit those death throes - the game nolonger has to engage the player because the cash shop instead favours exploiting greed and envy at a very superficial level - the whole motivation and ambition of the mmo changes and if it succeeds the larger message is a cut and run mentality that can only be detrimental to future development.
LOL .. apparently you have never played a trading card game like Magic The Gathering.
congrats for being the cause of pc games not getting attention.
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
Consider me someone who would LOVE for this idea about F2P's being cheaper to be true.
I even think I am the perfect candidate for it to work like you say it should.
- I don't play alot. I play maybe 2-3 hrs for a couple days out of the week. more on the weekends, or late at night. but i may go a week or more without playing. I make movies in my spare time, and that eats up a large chunk of mmo time, as well as being married and having a kid.
But, I've yet to find a F2P game, that I could play where I could spend very little, and it have = quality to its P2P counterparts. All the ones I've tried (minus the AAA P2P converts) all seemed shallow and full of bots compared to the P2P games. I like PVP, and I'd love to find a strong F2P PVP game, but all the ones I've tried either sucked gameplay wise, or made you spend tons to be competitive.
Prove me wrong.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
Just wanted to reiterate this point for emphasis.
We really need separate forums for every newly launched game. There can be the anti-<MMO> one and there can be the 'what general discussion should be' one. All the lamenting can happen together where each can find solace in like minded can't-move-on-ers leaving the rest of us to actually move forward and discuss meaningful and relevant topics.
thats more of a RTS than an MMO, not really my cup of tea.
www.facebook.com/themarksmovierules
Currently playing:
FFXIV on Behemoth, FFXI on Eden, and Gloria Victis on NA.
They destroying whole pc gaming market:(
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I can't believe the number of people here living in denial that DDO, LOTRO, EQ2, and CO are all F2P games.
It's a FACT that these games ARE F2P. I don't need to have "experience" playing other F2P games to say what I said and be correct in saying it. However, I've played tons of F2P games that were not these four, so it is irrelevant. These other games do not change my mind.
People here are failing to realize that F2P is becoming quite popular, and that just because a AAA title goes F2P doesn't mean it isn't ... F2P... because it is.
Let me make ths VERY simple guys...
DDO = F2P.
LOTRO = F2P.
EQ2 = F2P.
CO = F2P.
F2P = Good because of my OP.
But most of all...and as much as you want to deny this incredibly simple fact...
F2P = F2P
It doesn't get any more simple! Free 2 Play means the game is Free 2 Play.
DDO isn't somehow not F2P because it is Free 2 Play....
You can't argue around this or ignore it, nor can you say "Those games don't count!"
Ask yourself one question, DDO, EQ2, CO, LOTRO...
Are they Free?
YES!
If being a developer means being quiet, mature, well-spoken, and disconnected from the community, then by all means do me a favor and believe I'm not one.