I don't think carebear is the correct term here, I think casual is the term that should be used. While some aspects are somewhat "hardcore" I think the game is geared mostly so that anyone can pick it up and play it for a little while.
To review, you have mists where you pretty much zone in and PvP, when you want to,, against people from other servers, so there are no same server rivalries. Winners and losers get rewarded in PvE. Events happen all the time and are cyclical meaning when you're looking for something to do you can just run to an area and its likely something will be going on. In the event no one is around these events will scale. You have your personal story as well, and a some tougher group events that do require groups.
In the end though, the game is catering to the casual very well, and gives the casual player many options. In comparison to a more hardcore MMO with FFA PvP, or hell, any MMO with PvP server rulesets some might take the GW2 route as being a little sissy, but its a nice change where everything seems to be positive instead of having to slow down for some negative aspects like a harsh death penalty or an area of the open world controlled by a rival faction.
Its these reasons I think the B2P nature is also a good idea, for those wanting to play but not compromise for games with a different scope, or like me, for a game with more story related and open PvP enabled aspects, you can play those too at the same time and not miss anything due to doubling financial responsibilities.
Soooo lets some up the average stuff sandbox fans come up with shall we?
1. Oooh maaa gaaad, this MMO is so totally singleplayer. I mean seriously where is the multiplayer in it. Where is all the pawnage and stuff O_O
2. Rails. Where is maa train? Where is the holy train cause I sure as hell know that this MMOs is stuffed with rails. It's going on rails and they are holding maa hand>? I mean why are they holding maa hand?
3. Fat pawnage. Do they seriously think that we should not have PvP FFA pawnage everywhere? I mean seriously, these developers are soooo carebeary, look at all the fluff!!! No excitement, my brooo, no thrill of the fight, it's all too EZ and I've got this stale taste in my mouth,yaaack.
4. Where are maaa farming tools? I can't change the land aaarggghh??
Do you reckon I will get a warning or ban for this ?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
It seems as though this entire thread is dedicated to arguing semantics.
Let me introduce you to a concept, "Quests" are in the traditional MMORPG sense... things you do after accepting them from an NPC, which you then turn in to an NPC for a reward.
Dynamic Events does not contain above system. Therefore, Guild Wars 2 has zero quests since they only have Dynamic Events.
Actually, this is exactly what you do in GW2's DE system. There is a video that came out a couple months ago and was linked on these forums. The developers talked about the DE system and walked through multiple videos and scenarios of their system in action.
You walk up to an npc, you get a quest, complete the quest, get faction points which you then spend as currency with the faction's quartermaster.
Yeah, no. The Scout is not a quest-giver. You'll see in those videos that you do not have a new "quest" after talkin to the Scout. The Scout is only there to inform you of hotbeds of activity on the map. You get the "quest" by entering the area where an event is. You do not need to speak to the Scout! You don't even have to "complete" the event to get a low amount of credit (i.e. you run up, put out a few bales of fire, and run off again - when the event is complete, either failing and branching off or succeeding and branching off, you get rewards concurrent with your amount of contribution, even if you've run off and are doing something else).
SOME events are kicked off by talking to an NPC, or collecting an item or something, but the vast majority of them will be active in the world whether or not players get involved.
Im not talking about the scouts that are at the major cities. Im talking about the actual npcs that are wandering the events. You talk to them and get more info on moving the event along. And then talk to other npcs in that same area where you turn in your karma for quest rewards.
I will give anet credit for inventing new terminology in the mmo world. But the majority of gameplay remains the same.
Incorrect. You will never need to speak to an NPC to do events, although you can if you wish. Generally, the fact that a peasant comes tearing down the path in front of you screaming "Centarus are burning the town!", then pointing at the blazing buildings in the distance, should be enough indication of what to do and where to go. You won't need to click on him and get a couple of paragraphs of text explaining what you can see with your own eyes. Also, you won't need to visit anyone to get your rewards. They come to you automatically when the event finishes. You can even leave the zone altogether and you'll still get your reward, so long as you participated to some extent.
However, I understand that the personal storyline quests might be a little different and possibly more traditional in their mechanics. Although that's complete hearsay at this point.
To reiterate, you won't need to speak to anyone to do events. All the clues you need that are offered by NPCs will come from them talking to you (or shouting over their backs as they flee for their lives), not the other way around, and from their actions. You won't need to speak to anyone to get your reward since the event rewards you, not any NPC.
Interesting thing is that you can participate in basically every dynamic event out there almost from the get-go because the game will bump you up or down in levels so that you're able to group with your friends with more ease without being limited by levels. Sure, you'll still be under-geared and under-skilled numbers-wise, but you can participate and contribute. It also helps with the endgame because you can basically go back and do all the dynamic events you might've missed (many people I know will stick to their racial area(s) as much as they can so it'll provide an interesting alternative content) without the "oh, I'm so powerful it's too easy" feeling when you visit low-level areas in other MMOs.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Interesting thing is that you can participate in basically every dynamic event out there almost from the get-go because the game will bump you up or down in levels so that you're able to group with your friends with more ease without being limited by levels. Sure, you'll still be under-geared and under-skilled numbers-wise, but you can participate and contribute. It also helps with the endgame because you can basically go back and do all the dynamic events you might've missed (many people I know will stick to their racial area(s) as much as they can so it'll provide an interesting alternative content) without the "oh, I'm so powerful it's too easy" feeling when you visit low-level areas in other MMOs.
Actually sidekicking up to a higher level requires a friend or somebody to do it for you. Scaling down in levels is involuntary so DEs can't be griefed by high level players.
I kinda assumed it comes with the whole friends thing. Should've been clearer on that one, though, given that there's enough confusion about GW2 it seems.
Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing.
Interesting thing is that you can participate in basically every dynamic event out there almost from the get-go because the game will bump you up or down in levels so that you're able to group with your friends with more ease without being limited by levels. Sure, you'll still be under-geared and under-skilled numbers-wise, but you can participate and contribute. It also helps with the endgame because you can basically go back and do all the dynamic events you might've missed (many people I know will stick to their racial area(s) as much as they can so it'll provide an interesting alternative content) without the "oh, I'm so powerful it's too easy" feeling when you visit low-level areas in other MMOs.
Yeah, and you can bet there will be achievements and titles for exploring every corner of the entire world, and since dynamic events happen all different places all the time, you have missed so many.
It's good that when you are level 80 and get sidekicked down to lower level content that you still be powerful. In Oblivion everything was scaled 1:1 so you never felt powerful. They have said that when they scale you down you will be very strong, but not uber strong or 1 shot everything strong.
They are confident in their scaling system AI. If they can deliver in practice it will surely be an unforgettable experience.
You enter an area and are alerted via text message on the screen that an event is happening nearby. Then you do stuff at the event and you get text messages on screen that you are completing objectives. Does it really matter that youre not actually walking your character over to an npc every time? No it doesnt, you are still completing quests just like every other mmo out there. Even WoW has quests that just pop up when youre in an area and you can accept and complete them without ever having to talk to an npc.Grats on not having to talk to a single npc? That statement would actually mean something if this game had player made content. But thats a different topic altogether heh. And Id like to see you cash in your karma without talking to a single npc.
Ok, you compare Dynamic events to quests that are in WoW, and then you make it sound like Dynamic Events are nothing new. OK I want proof to back up what you just said! In a Pax east panel, they talk about a Dynamic Event where Centaurs attack a town, if players do not beat the Centaurs take over the town. Then another events starts, where the Centaurs from the town send out guys to cut down trees, so they can fortify the town and build siege weaponry, to protect their new outpost. If players do not stop the Centaurs then another event starts off where the Centaurs send out raiding parties to capture other towns. So with that example in mind can you link me a video where quests dynamically set off other quests based on player interaction? Can you link me to a video where a zone is constantly dynamically changing as events trigger other events that affect the whole zone? Can you link me to another MMO that has this design in game right now? Can you link me a video where I could possible go through a zone and not see the same event twice (or quest as you call them)? If you cannot link this proof, how is this like every other MMO out there? Put your money where your mouth is and provide proof, idle talk is not good enough!
Watch the PAX east panel where they talk about DEs, then come and say it is like every other MMO and bring proof to back up what you are saying. Have a nice day!
You enter an area and are alerted via text message on the screen that an event is happening nearby. Then you do stuff at the event and you get text messages on screen that you are completing objectives. Does it really matter that youre not actually walking your character over to an npc every time? No it doesnt, you are still completing quests just like every other mmo out there. Even WoW has quests that just pop up when youre in an area and you can accept and complete them without ever having to talk to an npc.Grats on not having to talk to a single npc? That statement would actually mean something if this game had player made content. But thats a different topic altogether heh. And Id like to see you cash in your karma without talking to a single npc.
Ok, you compare Dynamic events to quests that are in WoW, and then you make it sound like Dynamic Events are nothing new. OK I want proof to back up what you just said! In a Pax east panel, they talk about a Dynamic Event where Centaurs attack a town, if players do not beat the Centaurs take over the town. Then another events starts, where the Centaurs from the town send out guys to cut down trees, so they can fortify the town and build siege weaponry, to protect their new outpost. If players do not stop the Centaurs then another event starts off where the Centaurs send out raiding parties to capture other towns. So with that example in mind can you link me a video where quests dynamically set off other quests based on player interaction? Can you link me to a video where a zone is constantly dynamically changing as events trigger other events that affect the whole zone? Can you link me to another MMO that has this design in game right now? Can you link me a video where I could possible go through a zone and not see the same event twice (or quest as you call them)? If you cannot link this proof, how is this like every other MMO out there? Put your money where your mouth is and provide proof, idle talk is not good enough!
Watch the PAX east panel where they talk about DEs, then come and say it is like every other MMO and bring proof to back up what you are saying. Have a nice day!
Forget about what that guy said. You can simplify any game to make it look stupid. For instance, Guild Wars 2 and WoW are just games where you run around and cast spells. Technically that's true. So yes I simplified it. But it proves nothing. Don't worry about what the idiots say on these forums, they're just nit picking like usual. We need more guys like the OP who actually tried to create a discussion based on an understandable logical thought.
You enter an area and are alerted via text message on the screen that an event is happening nearby. Then you do stuff at the event and you get text messages on screen that you are completing objectives. Does it really matter that youre not actually walking your character over to an npc every time? No it doesnt, you are still completing quests just like every other mmo out there. Even WoW has quests that just pop up when youre in an area and you can accept and complete them without ever having to talk to an npc.Grats on not having to talk to a single npc? That statement would actually mean something if this game had player made content. But thats a different topic altogether heh. And Id like to see you cash in your karma without talking to a single npc.
Ok, you compare Dynamic events to quests that are in WoW, and then you make it sound like Dynamic Events are nothing new. OK I want proof to back up what you just said! In a Pax east panel, they talk about a Dynamic Event where Centaurs attack a town, if players do not beat the Centaurs take over the town. Then another events starts, where the Centaurs from the town send out guys to cut down trees, so they can fortify the town and build siege weaponry, to protect their new outpost. If players do not stop the Centaurs then another event starts off where the Centaurs send out raiding parties to capture other towns. So with that example in mind can you link me a video where quests dynamically set off other quests based on player interaction? Can you link me to a video where a zone is constantly dynamically changing as events trigger other events that affect the whole zone? Can you link me to another MMO that has this design in game right now? Can you link me a video where I could possible go through a zone and not see the same event twice (or quest as you call them)? If you cannot link this proof, how is this like every other MMO out there? Put your money where your mouth is and provide proof, idle talk is not good enough!
Watch the PAX east panel where they talk about DEs, then come and say it is like every other MMO and bring proof to back up what you are saying. Have a nice day!
Foomerang is simply being obtuse, IMO, because virtually any game mechanic can be reduced to its nuts and bolts and made to sound the same as any other. Example: Guild Wars 2 doesn't innovate in its combat because it still uses spells and sorcery, skills you click on, health bars and some sort of energy/fuel management, and you must execute those abilities over and over until you or the mob is dead. The problem with this argument is that in solely emphasizing the similarities and not giving due acknowlegement to the differences, it presents this as the content in its entirety. This is not a factual presentation of the mechanic.
Every game will require some sort of interaction between the player character and some object or person in the environment. However, it is known to the general audience that in the past (post-WoW) generation of MMOs, these quests were delivered in a similar manner across the board. Guild Wars 2 delivers the content differently. Simply because there is still "some form of" interaction and "some form of" reward does not mean that innovation has not been done, because the interaction and rewards are delivered differently, and that was the entire point of Dynamic Events. To remove the differences is to reduce the subject to meaninglessness.
I love their design philosophy and I love ArenaNet. While I couldn't stand their first game being instanced, I am very much looking fowrard to this one. As much as I despise NCSoft, I will at least support ArenaNet in the process. They have become the type of developer that I have been waiting for for over a decade.
You enter an area and are alerted via text message on the screen that an event is happening nearby. Then you do stuff at the event and you get text messages on screen that you are completing objectives. Does it really matter that youre not actually walking your character over to an npc every time? No it doesnt, you are still completing quests just like every other mmo out there. Even WoW has quests that just pop up when youre in an area and you can accept and complete them without ever having to talk to an npc.Grats on not having to talk to a single npc? That statement would actually mean something if this game had player made content. But thats a different topic altogether heh. And Id like to see you cash in your karma without talking to a single npc.
Ok, you compare Dynamic events to quests that are in WoW, and then you make it sound like Dynamic Events are nothing new. OK I want proof to back up what you just said! In a Pax east panel, they talk about a Dynamic Event where Centaurs attack a town, if players do not beat the Centaurs take over the town. Then another events starts, where the Centaurs from the town send out guys to cut down trees, so they can fortify the town and build siege weaponry, to protect their new outpost. If players do not stop the Centaurs then another event starts off where the Centaurs send out raiding parties to capture other towns. So with that example in mind can you link me a video where quests dynamically set off other quests based on player interaction? Can you link me to a video where a zone is constantly dynamically changing as events trigger other events that affect the whole zone? Can you link me to another MMO that has this design in game right now? Can you link me a video where I could possible go through a zone and not see the same event twice (or quest as you call them)? If you cannot link this proof, how is this like every other MMO out there? Put your money where your mouth is and provide proof, idle talk is not good enough!
Watch the PAX east panel where they talk about DEs, then come and say it is like every other MMO and bring proof to back up what you are saying. Have a nice day!
Foomerang is simply being obtuse, IMO, because virtually any game mechanic can be reduced to its nuts and bolts and made to sound the same as any other. Example: Guild Wars 2 doesn't innovate in its combat because it still uses spells and sorcery, skills you click on, health bars and some sort of energy/fuel management, and you must execute those abilities over and over until you or the mob is dead. The problem with this argument is that in solely emphasizing the similarities and not giving due acknowlegement to the differences, it presents this as the content in its entirety. This is not a factual presentation of the mechanic.
Every game will require some sort of interaction between the player character and some object or person in the environment. However, it is known to the general audience that in the past (post-WoW) generation of MMOs, these quests were delivered in a similar manner across the board. Guild Wars 2 delivers the content differently. Simply because there is still "some form of" interaction and "some form of" reward does not mean that innovation has not been done, because the interaction and rewards are delivered differently, and that was the entire point of Dynamic Events. To remove the differences is to reduce the subject to meaninglessness.
Edit: Heh, Kaynok beat me to it .
Ha ha. My bad. Your explanation was prettier in my opinion so you get a cookie.
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
PvP really shouldn't be about gear, if that turns it into call of duty so what, you want a balanced playing field. Especially for competitive PvP, world PvP or WvW can be a little unbalanced and it isn't as big a deal.
PvE needs competition imo, that is really the side of GW2 that I worry about, but I have to see the game in action to know if it is a problem or not.
You say that like it's in every outpost. The scouts are in all the main cities because those are the starter areas and I haven't heard anyone say they are anywhere else. With that said, the scouts are mainly for the beginners so after starting the game the only time you see them again is at another main city starter area.
You are really sure about that right?
*places stack of kudo's on table*
I bet every outpost.
I've researched deeper and found that even though you're still wrong, there seem to be scouts in every zone. Most if not all of the zones that have been shown have about 3 - 5 hearts to fill but just one scout. Basically, its like the Ressurection shrine bounty hunters in GW1 but this time only one in ever zone.
PvP really shouldn't be about gear, if that turns it into call of duty so what, you want a balanced playing field. Especially for competitive PvP, world PvP or WvW can be a little unbalanced and it isn't as big a deal.
PvE needs competition imo, that is really the side of GW2 that I worry about, but I have to see the game in action to know if it is a problem or not.
No doubt that PVE will have its endless amounts of titles and achievements tied to it, which you then will be able to show in some way. And like in GW1 more expensive or rare gear skins etc. You know, the kind of stuff that shows how much time you put in PVE
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
^^^ Well put. A level playing field isn't 'carebear' at all, and supports competition more than the imbalances in other games.
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
Couldn't have said it better myself, although I did enjoy Shadowbane's open world pvp, it was fun enough and balanced enough that I and many others found it enjoyable. In most other games like you mentioned, the high players want to wage war on the low players, that isn't competition its just a simple massacre to waste time. I love the fact that gear isn't a deciding factor in GW pvp, you can be 5 levels higher than me wearing deldrimor shiny armor, but if I have some decent equips and know my class and build well, then I will likely be the victor.
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
All of the self proclaimed "hardcore" pvp'ers should read this. In fact, the last two paragraphs need to be on the loading screen on every MMO that has any type of PVP.
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
All of the self proclaimed "hardcore" pvp'ers should read this. In fact, the last two paragraphs need to be on the loading screen on every MMO that has any type of PVP.
Originally posted by cali59 but you won't know whether you're the big dog or little dog from week to week.
Now that you mention it, ... I think we can expect certain servers to quickly build a name for themselves and act like magnets for everyone interested in WvWvW and winning at it too (as well as reaping the server wide benefits ascociated with performing well in WvWvW).
So I think it's safe to assume that some servers will be much more popular than others in that regard and generally will steamroll the underdogs in WvWvW with large, premade guilds and alliances cooperating smoothly. The downside to the attraction of the winning team would be playing on a full server with annoying log-in queues.
*photo-copy's own post for future reference*
I don't know if that's going to happen. Keep in mind that it's WvWvW. Suppose the average server fields about 1000 people at a time for PVP (just to pick a round number). Suppose the Alphadog server does get a larger population, suppose they can field about 2000 people at a time. They're still not able to dominate, they've just put a bullseye on their heads. Their 2000 would have to face off against the 1000 from each of the other two servers that week.
I also don't think that any kind of dominance would be confined to one server as well. People do love an underdog and to take down the champ. Suppose there's 6 servers all actively trying to recruit high quality PVPers. These servers, being the best and most populated, would often play each other. Even if the Alphadog server managed to field their 2000, they'd struggle to compete against two servers that could both field 1500 and would be allied against them.
It's also possible, since ArenaNet has a "no griefing" stance, that they might expand that to a "fair play" stance, and limit the number of people who can enter the mists at one time from one server, in this case, 1000. They might end up having to due it anyway due to server limitations. That would keep things balanced, and would keep people from transferring servers.
It's also possible that the real pro PVPers will focus on the structured PVP. Not being able to control 500 noobs would be frustrating, people might want to stick to what they do have control over.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
All of the self proclaimed "hardcore" pvp'ers should read this. In fact, the last two paragraphs need to be on the loading screen on every MMO that has any type of PVP.
This is a bit strange in parts, but it might help identify why your post, while extremely relevant, causes brain hemorrhaging. No, I didn't write it, and have no idea at all why there is a massive emphasis on Pokemon. Blame the Internet.
I don't find Guild Wars to be any less 'hardcore' than an MMO that allows FFA PK-ing. Only several times less irritating, and more friendly.
once upon a time a very smart person person decided to make an online encyclopedia..only to save himself the bother, and the financing that it would take had it all been compiled by specialists,he turned it into a secret f2p MMO, where many many subscribers would compete over who had the most entries in,who had done the best editing,and so on,with the hopes of..nothing..game didnt have a top end apparently..only a nice title the player could see preceding his online nick..yet it didn't stop the players begging for attention through their new entries,nor does it seem to stop its visitors from checking them out..ring a bell?
Must be cynical hour,and my apologies,but threads named so blatantly -insert adjective- as this one deserve so much less than they get..one tries hard to find the genuine worry of the OP,but..dunno,call me cynical..ultimate carebear; ultimate,let us say again. Topping everything in the past and future as well,as i assume he can glimpse through the veil of time as well.
next thing we know, WoW will be a sandbox heavy owPvP, and my dog will hail from the Centaur clan..
Originally posted by rodingo Originally posted by someforumguy Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's. Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition. I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear. In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
All of the self proclaimed "hardcore" pvp'ers should read this. In fact, the last two paragraphs need to be on the loading screen on every MMO that has any type of PVP.
Only because it shows that most players don't begin to understand what world PvP is about, this shows he has no clue at all about why people like world PvP.
Comments
Agnostic views are mainly based around religion. What you are is Apathetic.
I don't think carebear is the correct term here, I think casual is the term that should be used. While some aspects are somewhat "hardcore" I think the game is geared mostly so that anyone can pick it up and play it for a little while.
To review, you have mists where you pretty much zone in and PvP, when you want to,, against people from other servers, so there are no same server rivalries. Winners and losers get rewarded in PvE. Events happen all the time and are cyclical meaning when you're looking for something to do you can just run to an area and its likely something will be going on. In the event no one is around these events will scale. You have your personal story as well, and a some tougher group events that do require groups.
In the end though, the game is catering to the casual very well, and gives the casual player many options. In comparison to a more hardcore MMO with FFA PvP, or hell, any MMO with PvP server rulesets some might take the GW2 route as being a little sissy, but its a nice change where everything seems to be positive instead of having to slow down for some negative aspects like a harsh death penalty or an area of the open world controlled by a rival faction.
Its these reasons I think the B2P nature is also a good idea, for those wanting to play but not compromise for games with a different scope, or like me, for a game with more story related and open PvP enabled aspects, you can play those too at the same time and not miss anything due to doubling financial responsibilities.
Soooo lets some up the average stuff sandbox fans come up with shall we?
1. Oooh maaa gaaad, this MMO is so totally singleplayer. I mean seriously where is the multiplayer in it. Where is all the pawnage and stuff O_O
2. Rails. Where is maa train? Where is the holy train cause I sure as hell know that this MMOs is stuffed with rails. It's going on rails and they are holding maa hand>? I mean why are they holding maa hand?
3. Fat pawnage. Do they seriously think that we should not have PvP FFA pawnage everywhere? I mean seriously, these developers are soooo carebeary, look at all the fluff!!! No excitement, my brooo, no thrill of the fight, it's all too EZ and I've got this stale taste in my mouth,yaaack.
4. Where are maaa farming tools? I can't change the land aaarggghh??
Do you reckon I will get a warning or ban for this ?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Incorrect. You will never need to speak to an NPC to do events, although you can if you wish. Generally, the fact that a peasant comes tearing down the path in front of you screaming "Centarus are burning the town!", then pointing at the blazing buildings in the distance, should be enough indication of what to do and where to go. You won't need to click on him and get a couple of paragraphs of text explaining what you can see with your own eyes. Also, you won't need to visit anyone to get your rewards. They come to you automatically when the event finishes. You can even leave the zone altogether and you'll still get your reward, so long as you participated to some extent.
However, I understand that the personal storyline quests might be a little different and possibly more traditional in their mechanics. Although that's complete hearsay at this point.
To reiterate, you won't need to speak to anyone to do events. All the clues you need that are offered by NPCs will come from them talking to you (or shouting over their backs as they flee for their lives), not the other way around, and from their actions. You won't need to speak to anyone to get your reward since the event rewards you, not any NPC.
Interesting thing is that you can participate in basically every dynamic event out there almost from the get-go because the game will bump you up or down in levels so that you're able to group with your friends with more ease without being limited by levels. Sure, you'll still be under-geared and under-skilled numbers-wise, but you can participate and contribute. It also helps with the endgame because you can basically go back and do all the dynamic events you might've missed (many people I know will stick to their racial area(s) as much as they can so it'll provide an interesting alternative content) without the "oh, I'm so powerful it's too easy" feeling when you visit low-level areas in other MMOs.
Actually sidekicking up to a higher level requires a friend or somebody to do it for you. Scaling down in levels is involuntary so DEs can't be griefed by high level players.
I kinda assumed it comes with the whole friends thing. Should've been clearer on that one, though, given that there's enough confusion about GW2 it seems.
Yeah, and you can bet there will be achievements and titles for exploring every corner of the entire world, and since dynamic events happen all different places all the time, you have missed so many.
It's good that when you are level 80 and get sidekicked down to lower level content that you still be powerful. In Oblivion everything was scaled 1:1 so you never felt powerful. They have said that when they scale you down you will be very strong, but not uber strong or 1 shot everything strong.
They are confident in their scaling system AI. If they can deliver in practice it will surely be an unforgettable experience.
Ok, you compare Dynamic events to quests that are in WoW, and then you make it sound like Dynamic Events are nothing new. OK I want proof to back up what you just said! In a Pax east panel, they talk about a Dynamic Event where Centaurs attack a town, if players do not beat the Centaurs take over the town. Then another events starts, where the Centaurs from the town send out guys to cut down trees, so they can fortify the town and build siege weaponry, to protect their new outpost. If players do not stop the Centaurs then another event starts off where the Centaurs send out raiding parties to capture other towns. So with that example in mind can you link me a video where quests dynamically set off other quests based on player interaction? Can you link me to a video where a zone is constantly dynamically changing as events trigger other events that affect the whole zone? Can you link me to another MMO that has this design in game right now? Can you link me a video where I could possible go through a zone and not see the same event twice (or quest as you call them)? If you cannot link this proof, how is this like every other MMO out there? Put your money where your mouth is and provide proof, idle talk is not good enough!
Watch the PAX east panel where they talk about DEs, then come and say it is like every other MMO and bring proof to back up what you are saying. Have a nice day!
Forget about what that guy said. You can simplify any game to make it look stupid. For instance, Guild Wars 2 and WoW are just games where you run around and cast spells. Technically that's true. So yes I simplified it. But it proves nothing. Don't worry about what the idiots say on these forums, they're just nit picking like usual. We need more guys like the OP who actually tried to create a discussion based on an understandable logical thought.
Foomerang is simply being obtuse, IMO, because virtually any game mechanic can be reduced to its nuts and bolts and made to sound the same as any other. Example: Guild Wars 2 doesn't innovate in its combat because it still uses spells and sorcery, skills you click on, health bars and some sort of energy/fuel management, and you must execute those abilities over and over until you or the mob is dead. The problem with this argument is that in solely emphasizing the similarities and not giving due acknowlegement to the differences, it presents this as the content in its entirety. This is not a factual presentation of the mechanic.
Every game will require some sort of interaction between the player character and some object or person in the environment. However, it is known to the general audience that in the past (post-WoW) generation of MMOs, these quests were delivered in a similar manner across the board. Guild Wars 2 delivers the content differently. Simply because there is still "some form of" interaction and "some form of" reward does not mean that innovation has not been done, because the interaction and rewards are delivered differently, and that was the entire point of Dynamic Events. To remove the differences is to reduce the subject to meaninglessness.
Edit: Heh, Kaynok beat me to it
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I love their design philosophy and I love ArenaNet. While I couldn't stand their first game being instanced, I am very much looking fowrard to this one. As much as I despise NCSoft, I will at least support ArenaNet in the process. They have become the type of developer that I have been waiting for for over a decade.
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.
Ha ha. My bad. Your explanation was prettier in my opinion so you get a cookie.
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
PvP really shouldn't be about gear, if that turns it into call of duty so what, you want a balanced playing field. Especially for competitive PvP, world PvP or WvW can be a little unbalanced and it isn't as big a deal.
PvE needs competition imo, that is really the side of GW2 that I worry about, but I have to see the game in action to know if it is a problem or not.
I've researched deeper and found that even though you're still wrong, there seem to be scouts in every zone. Most if not all of the zones that have been shown have about 3 - 5 hearts to fill but just one scout. Basically, its like the Ressurection shrine bounty hunters in GW1 but this time only one in ever zone.
This is not a game.
No doubt that PVE will have its endless amounts of titles and achievements tied to it, which you then will be able to show in some way. And like in GW1 more expensive or rare gear skins etc. You know, the kind of stuff that shows how much time you put in PVE
^^^ Well put. A level playing field isn't 'carebear' at all, and supports competition more than the imbalances in other games.
Couldn't have said it better myself, although I did enjoy Shadowbane's open world pvp, it was fun enough and balanced enough that I and many others found it enjoyable. In most other games like you mentioned, the high players want to wage war on the low players, that isn't competition its just a simple massacre to waste time. I love the fact that gear isn't a deciding factor in GW pvp, you can be 5 levels higher than me wearing deldrimor shiny armor, but if I have some decent equips and know my class and build well, then I will likely be the victor.
All of the self proclaimed "hardcore" pvp'ers should read this. In fact, the last two paragraphs need to be on the loading screen on every MMO that has any type of PVP.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
MY EYES!! Jeez.
This is not a game.
I don't know if that's going to happen. Keep in mind that it's WvWvW. Suppose the average server fields about 1000 people at a time for PVP (just to pick a round number). Suppose the Alphadog server does get a larger population, suppose they can field about 2000 people at a time. They're still not able to dominate, they've just put a bullseye on their heads. Their 2000 would have to face off against the 1000 from each of the other two servers that week.
I also don't think that any kind of dominance would be confined to one server as well. People do love an underdog and to take down the champ. Suppose there's 6 servers all actively trying to recruit high quality PVPers. These servers, being the best and most populated, would often play each other. Even if the Alphadog server managed to field their 2000, they'd struggle to compete against two servers that could both field 1500 and would be allied against them.
It's also possible, since ArenaNet has a "no griefing" stance, that they might expand that to a "fair play" stance, and limit the number of people who can enter the mists at one time from one server, in this case, 1000. They might end up having to due it anyway due to server limitations. That would keep things balanced, and would keep people from transferring servers.
It's also possible that the real pro PVPers will focus on the structured PVP. Not being able to control 500 noobs would be frustrating, people might want to stick to what they do have control over.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
http://stuff.veekun.com/pkcolor/
This is a bit strange in parts, but it might help identify why your post, while extremely relevant, causes brain hemorrhaging. No, I didn't write it, and have no idea at all why there is a massive emphasis on Pokemon. Blame the Internet.
I don't find Guild Wars to be any less 'hardcore' than an MMO that allows FFA PK-ing. Only several times less irritating, and more friendly.
once upon a time a very smart person person decided to make an online encyclopedia..only to save himself the bother, and the financing that it would take had it all been compiled by specialists,he turned it into a secret f2p MMO, where many many subscribers would compete over who had the most entries in,who had done the best editing,and so on,with the hopes of..nothing..game didnt have a top end apparently..only a nice title the player could see preceding his online nick..yet it didn't stop the players begging for attention through their new entries,nor does it seem to stop its visitors from checking them out..ring a bell?
Must be cynical hour,and my apologies,but threads named so blatantly -insert adjective- as this one deserve so much less than they get..one tries hard to find the genuine worry of the OP,but..dunno,call me cynical..ultimate carebear; ultimate,let us say again. Topping everything in the past and future as well,as i assume he can glimpse through the veil of time as well.
next thing we know, WoW will be a sandbox heavy owPvP, and my dog will hail from the Centaur clan..
Only because it shows that most players don't begin to understand what world PvP is about, this shows he has no clue at all about why people like world PvP.