Fans of in-depth and accessible PvP, laid back PvE and social interaction. Fans of the original Guild Wars. Gamers torn between the value of subscription games and the freedom from long-term commmitment offered by games that don't require a monthly fee.
Audience Arenanet Would Love to Have, But Isn't a Priority (at the moment):
Fans of free-for-all PK-ing, more serious, time-intensive PVE, grinding, hardcore roleplayers (although there could be some potential there - this is just my impression so far) and alas, hardcore crafters.
Arenanet has to hit its target audience, and hopefully (but not necessarily) more. The team has never done crafting before. Personally, I'd rather they pace themselves and create something serviceable than overreach and produce a convoluted heap.
As much as I'd like something astonishingly complex and creative, I respect their reasons for accepting a little less.
Nobody wants to hear about the good ol' days of the floppy disk & how fun it was to spend hours planning dungeon & raid schedules rather than tactics. We're all here looking forward to a game where we don't have to spend hours of grinding & pre-planning to have some fun. I wanna play a game where me and my friend can log in and start having fun right away and if we want to do a dungeon we'll do one with a PUG, without having to form and assemble 15 people to be able to do a 5-man dungeon safely.
You want a game aimed at ADD players and console players and to me that is the death of the MMO, nothing I can do to stop it other than be sad that it is the direction of the genre. Makes me sad that technology is advancing but the implementation of technology is moving backwards in general.
Nobody wants to hear about the good ol' days of the floppy disk & how fun it was to spend hours planning dungeon & raid schedules rather than tactics. We're all here looking forward to a game where we don't have to spend hours of grinding & pre-planning to have some fun. I wanna play a game where me and my friend can log in and start having fun right away and if we want to do a dungeon we'll do one with a PUG, without having to form and assemble 15 people to be able to do a 5-man dungeon safely.
You want a game aimed at ADD players and console players and to me that is the death of the MMO, nothing I can do to stop it other than be sad that it is the direction of the genre. Makes me sad that technology is advancing but the implementation of technology is moving backwards in general.
Ah yes, come 2012 Guild Wars 2 will bring about cataclysmic events that will mark the end of the MMO genre as we know it. EQ players will emerge from their basement dwelling habitats, screaming "The end is nigh!" and all while this is going on I'll be rolling with my group of friends in World v World PvP, ganking any groups we come across, because the game permits consensual PvP.
If a well designed game somehow equates to a game that's aimed for me & my ADD buddies, that is fun, then that's all that matter. It being fun. Much better than where you have to grind for hours to regain the xp you lost from dying. But I guess someone like you would actually enjoy having to go on corpes-runs, just as long as you can wave around your e-peen some more and claim to be an elite gamer from yester years. Well grandpa, not everything was better in your days.
Arenanet's Target Audience: Fans of in-depth and accessible PvP, laid back PvE and social interaction. Fans of the original Guild Wars. Gamers torn between the value of subscription games and the freedom from long-term commmitment offered by games that don't require a monthly fee.
Audience Arenanet Would Love to Have, But Isn't a Priority (at the moment): Fans of free-for-all PK-ing, more serious, time-intensive PVE, grinding, hardcore roleplayers (although there could be some potential there - this is just my impression so far) and alas, hardcore crafters.
Arenanet has to hit its target audience, and hopefully (but not necessarily) more. The team has never done crafting before. Personally, I'd rather they pace themselves and create something serviceable than overreach and produce a convoluted heap. As much as I'd like something astonishingly complex and creative, I respect their reasons for accepting a little less.
I think this comment hits the nail on the head. This game is going to suit a lot of players with particular questions (above) and the other group of questions from the mmorpg crowd that is going to be interesting: I think some of the quality in all of the features is too good to say no too even for the more specialist players.
As for crafting it's secondary to other things is spot on.
Any system shouldn't be considered good or bad on its own but on how it relates to the game as a whole..
Strangely I quite enjoy the intricate time-consuming crafting in Xsyon (not right now but i did) but I wouldn't want something like that in GW2.
It's time for this genre to grow up beyond "one game to rule them all" imo.
Exactly. If I want to play an MMO because I love complex crafting then I'd play an MMO with that as one of it's core focuses and if I want to play an MMO to have fun I'll play Guild Wars 2. Just sad that people still expect Guild Wars 2 to come out with features that will fulfill all of their needs, forcing the community manager & devs to constantly clarify things and re-iterate their stance. And still people constantly bring out the torches, as soon as something is mentioned that doesn't appease them like: the elementalist not getting a weapon swap, the warrior being able to use a longbows well, ranger's pets that seem to die a lot (when the owner forgets about them), the Guardian being so support-centric, the thief being able to stealth, the lack of dedicated raid content, the lack of dedicated healers, the lack of an overly complex crafting system. The list goes on.
I've only been a part of the MMO genre/community for a few months & some parts just annoy the hell out of me.
I've played 15+ mmos and have yet to see an overly complex crafting system let along a complex one. IN DEPTH ones yes, overly complex or even complex NO. Even SWG (the best crafting system ever) was'nt complex it just needed some thinking if you wanted to make the best items. Now I know the avarge wow player does'nt like to or can't think but what about those of us who DO. Why SHOULD'NT GW2 have an in depth crafting system for those that LIKE to craft so they can do it and those that don't can just buy items just like what happend in SWG. Just like GW2 will have a indepth pvp system for those that like it and one that can be totaly avoided for those like me who don't
[Mod Edit]
Yes, i agree, SWG had the best crafting of any MMO but that was basically all they did. You don't need everyone in the game crafting, it is ridiculous...heck, many players don't like crafting anyway. If you have a system that totally engrosses a crafter, they will be over joyed. If the game is designed to support that type of player, your economy can be player driven....again, SWG.
As for the WoW players....it is CAN'T think, not don't want to.
I'm totally on board with this new approach to crafting. I know it could possibly lead to over saturation of items but hopefully it means that people will all develop 2 crafting professions and then be able to trade easily amongst each other for required gear.
I'm not a crafter but I understand some that love it will find this disappointing in GW2. On the other hand, for someone like myself that takes up crafting as kind of an in game hobby, and can't stand having to pay exorbitant amounts for crafted gear, it's a really appealing feature.
Any system shouldn't be considered good or bad on its own but on how it relates to the game as a whole..
Strangely I quite enjoy the intricate time-consuming crafting in Xsyon (not right now but i did) but I wouldn't want something like that in GW2.
It's time for this genre to grow up beyond "one game to rule them all" imo.
Exactly. If I want to play an MMO because I love complex crafting then I'd play an MMO with that as one of it's core focuses and if I want to play an MMO to have fun I'll play Guild Wars 2. Just sad that people still expect Guild Wars 2 to come out with features that will fulfill all of their needs, forcing the community manager & devs to constantly clarify things and re-iterate their stance. And still people constantly bring out the torches, as soon as something is mentioned that doesn't appease them like: the elementalist not getting a weapon swap, the warrior being able to use a longbows well, ranger's pets that seem to die a lot (when the owner forgets about them), the Guardian being so support-centric, the thief being able to stealth, the lack of dedicated raid content, the lack of dedicated healers, the lack of an overly complex crafting system. The list goes on.
I've only been a part of the MMO genre/community for a few months & some parts just annoy the hell out of me.
I've played 15+ mmos and have yet to see an overly complex crafting system let along a complex one. IN DEPTH ones yes, overly complex or even complex NO. Even SWG (the best crafting system ever) was'nt complex it just needed some thinking if you wanted to make the best items. Now I know the avarge wow player does'nt like to or can't think but what about those of us who DO. Why SHOULD'NT GW2 have an in depth crafting system for those that LIKE to craft so they can do it and those that don't can just buy items just like what happend in SWG. Just like GW2 will have a indepth pvp system for those that like it and one that can be totaly avoided for those like me who don't
[Mod Edit]
Yes, i agree, SWG had the best crafting of any MMO but that was basically all they did. You don't need everyone in the game crafting, it is ridiculous...heck, many players don't like crafting anyway. If you have a system that totally engrosses a crafter, they will be over joyed. If the game is designed to support that type of player, your economy can be player driven....again, SWG.
As for the WoW players....it is CAN'T think, not don't want to.
For me any PRE CU SWG was the best mmo I have ever played and thats was'nt just becasue of the crafting. The class system was awesome too. You can change class AT ANYTIME and the only cost was that you had to earn the xp for the new class you wanted which was perfectly fair if you ask me. The way they did houseing worked great too you could have NPC merchants in your house and could sell what you wanted on it. I spent many an hour bargin hunting around the galaxy for intresting things for my art gallery/rare item showroom. There was aslo REAL player cities with thier own shuttle port, shopping malls and guild halls.
Its well known that the avarage iq of a wow player is ZERO
Top 3 MMO's PRE-CU SWG GW1 GW2
Worst 2 wow and Lotro Under standing stones it went woke
I understand that some people like deep, intricate, complex crafting systems; heck, I'd like to see GW2 implement such a system myself, as I enjoy deep and intersting crafting systems as well, but implementing a system "because some people like it" is NOT a smart or logical move. Aside from the obvious fact that game developers do not have an infinite amount of time or resources to make games with 5000 fully developed, deep and complex systems, plenty of things simply do not fit together as a whole.
A lot of people love terraforming/landscape alteration, as well as creating and running entire cities, open world FFA PVP with full-inventory loot, farming and agricultural systems (the popularity of Farmville and to a lesser extent games like Harvest Moon attest to that), etc. etc. Many of these systems have people who hate them as well (plenty of people hate open world FFA PVP, for example), so trying to cater to everyone would not only be impossible given contradictory tastes and preferences, but the result would be a jumbled mess that would ultimately appeal to nobody.
As was mentioned elsewhere, this "ONE GAME TO RULE THEM ALL" mentality needs to go. In GW2's case, they clearly want the focus to be on Combat, the dynamic world and personal stories, so that's where most of the time and effort is going to go. If you want a crafting/creativity-centric game, you'll have to go elsewhere, same as if you'd prefer a SciFi adventure over a fantasy game, or an FPS over an RPG, etc.
Comments
Arenanet's Target Audience:
Fans of in-depth and accessible PvP, laid back PvE and social interaction. Fans of the original Guild Wars. Gamers torn between the value of subscription games and the freedom from long-term commmitment offered by games that don't require a monthly fee.
Audience Arenanet Would Love to Have, But Isn't a Priority (at the moment):
Fans of free-for-all PK-ing, more serious, time-intensive PVE, grinding, hardcore roleplayers (although there could be some potential there - this is just my impression so far) and alas, hardcore crafters.
Arenanet has to hit its target audience, and hopefully (but not necessarily) more. The team has never done crafting before. Personally, I'd rather they pace themselves and create something serviceable than overreach and produce a convoluted heap.
As much as I'd like something astonishingly complex and creative, I respect their reasons for accepting a little less.
You want a game aimed at ADD players and console players and to me that is the death of the MMO, nothing I can do to stop it other than be sad that it is the direction of the genre. Makes me sad that technology is advancing but the implementation of technology is moving backwards in general.
Is this thread still about thieves and crafting?
Its kinda hard to tell but I'm gonna guess no.
Ah yes, come 2012 Guild Wars 2 will bring about cataclysmic events that will mark the end of the MMO genre as we know it. EQ players will emerge from their basement dwelling habitats, screaming "The end is nigh!" and all while this is going on I'll be rolling with my group of friends in World v World PvP, ganking any groups we come across, because the game permits consensual PvP.
If a well designed game somehow equates to a game that's aimed for me & my ADD buddies, that is fun, then that's all that matter. It being fun. Much better than where you have to grind for hours to regain the xp you lost from dying. But I guess someone like you would actually enjoy having to go on corpes-runs, just as long as you can wave around your e-peen some more and claim to be an elite gamer from yester years. Well grandpa, not everything was better in your days.
I think this comment hits the nail on the head. This game is going to suit a lot of players with particular questions (above) and the other group of questions from the mmorpg crowd that is going to be interesting: I think some of the quality in all of the features is too good to say no too even for the more specialist players. As for crafting it's secondary to other things is spot on.http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Yes, i agree, SWG had the best crafting of any MMO but that was basically all they did. You don't need everyone in the game crafting, it is ridiculous...heck, many players don't like crafting anyway. If you have a system that totally engrosses a crafter, they will be over joyed. If the game is designed to support that type of player, your economy can be player driven....again, SWG.
As for the WoW players....it is CAN'T think, not don't want to.
I'm totally on board with this new approach to crafting. I know it could possibly lead to over saturation of items but hopefully it means that people will all develop 2 crafting professions and then be able to trade easily amongst each other for required gear.
I'm not a crafter but I understand some that love it will find this disappointing in GW2. On the other hand, for someone like myself that takes up crafting as kind of an in game hobby, and can't stand having to pay exorbitant amounts for crafted gear, it's a really appealing feature.
For me any PRE CU SWG was the best mmo I have ever played and thats was'nt just becasue of the crafting. The class system was awesome too. You can change class AT ANYTIME and the only cost was that you had to earn the xp for the new class you wanted which was perfectly fair if you ask me. The way they did houseing worked great too you could have NPC merchants in your house and could sell what you wanted on it. I spent many an hour bargin hunting around the galaxy for intresting things for my art gallery/rare item showroom. There was aslo REAL player cities with thier own shuttle port, shopping malls and guild halls.
Its well known that the avarage iq of a wow player is ZERO
Top 3 MMO's PRE-CU SWG GW1 GW2
Worst 2 wow and Lotro Under standing stones it went woke
Yea, SWG, pre CU was the best game I ever played.....that is why I am waiting for Archeage. Just like SWG Pre CU but in a fantasy setting.
From what I can see though it has FFA pvp
which means I will never play it. Had enough of that when I tried eve
Top 3 MMO's PRE-CU SWG GW1 GW2
Worst 2 wow and Lotro Under standing stones it went woke
I understand that some people like deep, intricate, complex crafting systems; heck, I'd like to see GW2 implement such a system myself, as I enjoy deep and intersting crafting systems as well, but implementing a system "because some people like it" is NOT a smart or logical move. Aside from the obvious fact that game developers do not have an infinite amount of time or resources to make games with 5000 fully developed, deep and complex systems, plenty of things simply do not fit together as a whole.
A lot of people love terraforming/landscape alteration, as well as creating and running entire cities, open world FFA PVP with full-inventory loot, farming and agricultural systems (the popularity of Farmville and to a lesser extent games like Harvest Moon attest to that), etc. etc. Many of these systems have people who hate them as well (plenty of people hate open world FFA PVP, for example), so trying to cater to everyone would not only be impossible given contradictory tastes and preferences, but the result would be a jumbled mess that would ultimately appeal to nobody.
As was mentioned elsewhere, this "ONE GAME TO RULE THEM ALL" mentality needs to go. In GW2's case, they clearly want the focus to be on Combat, the dynamic world and personal stories, so that's where most of the time and effort is going to go. If you want a crafting/creativity-centric game, you'll have to go elsewhere, same as if you'd prefer a SciFi adventure over a fantasy game, or an FPS over an RPG, etc.
I don't think so. It is reading like some kind of kidnapped nightmare.