If you want to grief and gank then this game is probably not the one for you. AoC has a free for all, no holds bar, server coming up. You might try that or even something like Darkfall.
So fighting people on equal ground is carebearish while killing people who cant fight back is hardcore?
I played a lot of PvP games in my days starting with Lineage 2001 or 2002 and I never seen the point of killing someone that can't possible win. Yeah, I done it a few times but in most cases it was griefers killing noobs on my side.
In fact all my greatest PvP moments are against people who are stronger than me, or at least as strong and played good.
GW2 will offer many kinds of PvP on equal footing, the best people wins, not the ones with best gear.
So sure, I might be a carebear. But I am at least not a wuss.
And no, I can't even begin to understand how it can be fun to "win" over someone that can't possible fight back. I usually play a knight, good or evil. But even if I am evil I still uphold some kind of chivalry.
I play PvP to get challenged and GW2 seems like it will offer plenty of that.
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
All of the self proclaimed "hardcore" pvp'ers should read this. In fact, the last two paragraphs need to be on the loading screen on every MMO that has any type of PVP.
Only because it shows that most players don't begin to understand what world PvP is about, this shows he has no clue at all about why people like world PvP.
Ive played several of those games. And my experience was usually the same. The thrill that some find in getting attacked at any time, is not that thrilling to me. This so called risk, is just the risk of starting a threadmill again because you lose loot.
Also a fight rarely happened when I was paying attention. Most of the time I got attacked when I had to pick up the phone, answer the door or had several windows open or was fighting a mob. Which only lead to frustration because of losing gear. When I actually tried to fight and was ready, the attacker tried to flee. It got very boring very fast.
I also joined groups of players and had fun for a short time facerolling (mainly solo) opponents. Because thats the other thing that got boring fast. In most FFA PVP games I played I saw rarely organised groups. Most just zerg based on numbers.
So far I only found good challenging PVP in Guild Wars and EVE. (never played DAoC unfortunately) They actually know how to play in a team there instead of just watching dps meters or gank again and again and again and again.
Most of the players in those FFA PVP games try to avoid any real challenge. Thats why I didnt like it.
This game hasnt even released yet but you know all about the pvping. Thats great im glad you can see the future and tell me what to expect from a game that realistically isnt even coming out for about 6-8 months. Thanks for the heads up.
Can I also have this weeks Mega Millions lotto numbers while you're at it all mighty knowing guy?
I for one spent 4 years in the first GW so I think I at least have some ideas how the gameplay will be.
No one here knows all about it, well at least unless one of the higher ups of ANET reads this. But any long time GW players that keept themselves updated shoul at least understand some of what the game will offer.
Just like people who played "Heroes of might and magic V" have some idea what HOMM VI will offer for gameplay. Far from everything and there will be surprises no doubt but they will know some things.
Its odd how some in this thread assume that GW2 (and GW1) isnt about competition. If there is one thing that Anet did right with GW1, is that it tried to create balanced PVP with almost no room for griefing. It lead to the most competitive balanced PVP that I ever experienced in MMO's.
Griefing is not the same as competition. Griefing usually means avoiding competition. Because things like respawncamping or ganking low lvl players is AVOIDING competition.
I always find it ironic how some players call a MMO that doesnt have FFA PVP, carebear. In my eyes its unbalanced PVP or FFA PVP that is carebear. Apart from a minority, most players in those FFA PVP games seek safety in numbers or try to sneak up onto unsuspecting players. Preferably ones that are afk or busy doing something else or fighting a mob. This is clearly looking for sure ways to win, to avoid any real competition, aka carebear.
In balanced PVP you dont get that chance. The deciding factor will be skill, there is no room for carebear action. This is where GW1 shines and I trust Anet to deliver again in GW2. Sry, FFA PVP 'tough guys', you dont get the chance to play cat and mouse with newbies in GW2 (I dont mean the few who actually like the thrill of PVP even when outnumbered).
All of the self proclaimed "hardcore" pvp'ers should read this. In fact, the last two paragraphs need to be on the loading screen on every MMO that has any type of PVP.
Only because it shows that most players don't begin to understand what world PvP is about, this shows he has no clue at all about why people like world PvP.
I agree to all three of you. GW2 isn't going to be a carebear mmo. ANet is trying to ensure that the community is socially good on each server thus so servers don't compete against themselves. It is kind of like DAoC like someone posted earlier in this thread. Each realm on the servers worked together and fought other realms.. GW2 is the same concept except in a bigger scale.
Something glimpsed my eye about the pvp #'s Colin spoke about today earlier in this thread but I forget who posted it. Basically what he means by 30 vs. 300 (let's say it's split 200/100 between 2 other Worlds) means that it "can" happen. Myself coming from a solid DAoC background (played for at least 5+ years), I've learned that alot of the time at least one side is at a disadvantage whether it be a group (DAoC groups consists of 8 people) vs 2 groups, a group vs 2 groups vs 2 groups, or a few groups vs a zerg vs a zerg. You can never plan out whether you are going to have the advantage/disadvantage but for what it is you just have to roll with it and think of ways to strategize on the fly.
It will almost never happen where it is even or close to even on all three sides. I highly think that the combat decisions that ANet have made to implement in their game are good ones and will even out the playing field skill wise just for the fact that it is more of an actiony mmo. THEREFORE, numbers don't matter as much as skill, yet there are times you can probably think of where you are just WAYYYY outnumbered. Something like this from DAoC where the Albion side is trying to defend their Relic (relics are important as they give bonuses to your realm) against the Midgard side which of course is outnumbered by HOLY SHIT BATMAN. Albion Zerg vs. A Few Groups of Midgards (point of view)
Nonetheless, have faith in ANet and the game they are making. I strongly believe in them and that the decisions they make when implementing new features (big or small) are for the best. Take what they say and convert it into positive energy about the game because so far everything they say holds true so why not just put all your marbles into one basket.
To all the trolls out there and "Omg GW2 is going to be TERRIBLE" people, if you don't agree about anything that I just said then don't buy or play the game. Stay with your "non carebear mmo" while myself and millions of other players enjoy playing GW2 because it's going to be that fucking awesome.
***Note*** If you haven't seen the Guild Wars 2 Pax East Panel discussion which happened on last Saturday, you should go check it out because you can learn alot about the game from it. Guild Wars 2 Pax East Panel ***End Note***
Side-kicking sounds interesting. Even if it is an aggressive solution to griefing, it is a solution.
The only concequent seems to to be progression and allowing players to progress where ever they want. As an option it does not affect those who still prefer the usual routes.
Upside to that is, if you have seen a certain area, and like to visit but it was a low lvl,.... 'Well, come one over, becuase now you can with the greatest deals in town and don't forget to come with a handy side kick by your side!' said the salesman in his salmany voice.
As for PvP, it wont be any different than places with contested zones.
Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble
Leechx, apparently where you and I disagree is on the meaning of the word "carebear." Because you are obviously pro-PvP and pro-GW2, so I don't think we have any real disagreement other than imo.....carebear does not necessarily mean you don't like PvP, but rather that you don't like high level gankers ganking low level players. I've been called a carebear for that reason before and I don't hate PvP. I like a fair fight. I don't like a bunch of high level players getting togetther to steamroll low levels. GW2 won't be that way so "carebears" (like myself) might be fighting at your side and kicking ass WITH you.
This game hasnt even released yet but you know all about the pvping. Thats great im glad you can see the future and tell me what to expect from a game that realistically isnt even coming out for about 6-8 months. Thanks for the heads up.
Can I also have this weeks Mega Millions lotto numbers while you're at it all mighty knowing guy?
I for one spent 4 years in the first GW so I think I at least have some ideas how the gameplay will be.
No one here knows all about it, well at least unless one of the higher ups of ANET reads this. But any long time GW players that keept themselves updated shoul at least understand some of what the game will offer.
Just like people who played "Heroes of might and magic V" have some idea what HOMM VI will offer for gameplay. Far from everything and there will be surprises no doubt but they will know some things.
Leechx, apparently where you and I disagree is on the meaning of the word "carebear." Because you are obviously pro-PvP and pro-GW2, so I don't think we have any real disagreement other than imo.....carebear does not necessarily mean you don't like PvP, but rather that you don't like high level gankers ganking low level players. I've been called a carebear for that reason before and I don't hate PvP. I like a fair fight. I don't like a bunch of high level players getting togetther to steamroll low levels. GW2 won't be that way so "carebears" (like myself) might be fighting at your side and kicking ass WITH you.
I think me and you are on two different pages heh. From what I am getting at, people are saying the game will be "carebear" because of all the precautions they took to enforce social gathering and cooperation within each server. I honestly think that that decision is a huge one because servers aren't competing against themselves then but rather against other servers. So yes I do think me and you are very agreeable on these matters except a minor misconception of the meaning of the word "carebear" lol. I am just sick and tired of people stereotyping a game that isn't really how it is. They obviously made those decisions for a few reasons such as: better community amongst own servers, prevent ganking on own servers, etc. etc. I used to play on a WoW PvP server at least a year or 2 ago and constantly got ganked by higher level players once I entered zones that were prone to ganking. I think it is just rather annoying to be trying to go through the PvE content and are interrupted by little bullshit like that. That is all that I am saying but yes I think me and you agree that GW2 is going to be a great game. Hehe.
Yes GW2 will be the ultimate carebear mmo. And there are millions of carebear gamers that will flock to it. GG Anet.
Lawl you are dumb. Don't buy the game then please because I'd rather keep all of the people like you out of the game that don't know s**t. GG Foomerang
LOL....riiiiight. Good luck with that. You obviously have no understanding of how ArenaNet does PvP. Some of the people you THINK are "carebears" are going to whoop your ass in PvP. The people with no skill that simply want an unfair advantage....yeah, ANet doesn't cater to that crowd. So maybe you should go play with the others (in some other game) who aren't skilled enough to go toe to toe with equals.
Incidentally....you calling someone dumb doesn't make you look smart, contrary to what you might think. Also....you're entitled to your own opinion, however....so is everyone else.
Hey now I'm just trying to keep all the trolls and haters out. And yes I honestly do think he is dumb for his statement that he has made. And yes that is my own opinion. But thanks for the supplement. :-)
Oh and as a side note, stereotyping a game without reasons is a pretty giant leap to take. Therefore, refer to above statement.. lol.
I will TOTALLY agree with you on the sheer seeming idiocy of labeling GW2 as a "carebear game." I won't argue that. I know what GW1 was like and there is no way ArenaNet is going to foul up PvP. I think you and I agree more than we disagree.
Haha agreed. I'm sure these guys think about every possible problem of certain implementations and plan accordingly to prevent unbalanced play or "exploiting" in a way to cause bad experiences. Take for example, in the panel discussion someone asks a question about "what prevents people from ruining your dynamic event by just hitting a mob and sitting there not doing anything" or something of that sort. So basically ANet implements "Dynamic Event AI" that knows if people are actually contributing to the event or not and scales the event accordingly. That is just one example but just think of how careful they are being while they are making their game. They probably think of things that can ruin some certain feature and think of some way or ways to prevent people from ruining it.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
ANet gears their games towards the players. They obviously don't put money as their #1 priority because they don't need to. The game they make is so good that they don't have to worry about that kind of stuff because people are inclined to play. Oh, and also if you didn't know.. they release new content alot quicker than other companies do to keep people playing (some content being free but major expansions being B2P but not as expensive as the game costs.. or at least that's how it was for GW1). So I mean why would they want to get people in and out ASAP. They are gearing the game towards the players and that people love playing their game, not for the fact that they are or aren't saving money. ANet is a company that actually cares about the quality of their game and their players.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
And this is why ANet is such a goddamn good company. I pretty much posted the same thing you said here in my previous post quoting Daitengu. ANet is by far my favorite company in the mmorpg gaming industry right now and this only a small branch to the tree of reasons why they are.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
As I see it, Arenanet is a company and companies need to make money. They have taken alot of risk with innovation and played it safe with some features. The decision to not have a subscription has many reason but I believe it is a wonderful marketing tool, it will make more people buy the game since it is less of an investment for the buyer.
If people do not keep playing the game I think that would hurt the WvW pvp, you need people playing at different times of the day. The server-communities that will be built around the server vs server mentality will probably not benefint from having a big flow of new people coming in and old people leaving all the time. What kind of community would that be when no one knows eachother?
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
All the basic design decisions of P2P and F2P are player retention, BUT without subs, or a item mall, Anet's strategy could be or may have change from player retention, to a more offline type design of a GOOD game only strategy. I mean I only play about 20 to 50 hours in GW1 and about the same for each expansion. Little grind, easy to recommend to others. Which obviously goes against the OP's preferences as FFA PvP is not conductive to large sales figures for casual players.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
As I see it, Arenanet is a company and companies need to make money. They have taken alot of risk with innovation and played it safe with some features. The decision to not have a subscription has many reason but I believe it is a wonderful marketing tool, it will make more people buy the game since it is less of an investment for the buyer.
If people do not keep playing the game I think that would hurt the WvW pvp, you need people playing at different times of the day. The server-communities that will be built around the server vs server mentality will probably not benefint from having a big flow of new people coming in and old people leaving all the time. What kind of community would that be when no one knows eachother?
Then its a damn good thing the people at Anet are designing the game to be as fun as they possibly can. They are making the game so you actually want to play it. I'm pretty sure if people want to keep playing the game then they will.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
All the basic design decisions of P2P and F2P are player retention, BUT without subs, or a item mall, Anet's strategy could be or may have change from player retention, to a more offline type design of a GOOD game only strategy. I mean I only play about 20 to 50 hours in GW1 and about the same for each expansion. Little grind, easy to recommend to others. Which obviously goes against the OP's preferences as FFA PvP is not conductive to large sales figures for casual players.
My preference is "obviously" not anything. Don't assume anything based on a thread title. I take no stance, merely ask a question.
Secondly, it's painting white a very marker to say that ArenaNet does not care about money? ArenaNet and NCsoft care about as much about money as Blizzard Activision and And Bioware and EA. All three also want to make the best game they can. All three, want their games to be the best games they can be, and play them themselves. There is nothing different here.
All of these games, from WoW to GW2 are giant business risks and investment. Carefully step back and think to yourself about alone how many many millions it cost to promote GW2 at tradeshows, what it costs to do trailers, to pay for journalists to travel half way around the hotel to play the game and write something favorable about the game, for all their testers, for the 175 people who have been working on it for the last 4-5 years.
Then you got the server team, the outsourcing, video codecs, technologies that they are paying royalties to - From SpeedTree to HavocPhysics, you suddenly have a lot of people who need a slice of the pie or who ArenaNet/NCsoft owes money too.
Then you have NCsoft itself, a company which only purpose is to make itself grow and look at profit. So far they seem to have let ArenaNet do their own thing, which is why GW ended up as a great product that expanded with many great things. Most people will tell you that the game is better now than it has ever been(I suspect nay-sayers will include those that get angry over nerfs... It happens in every game. Has too.).
My point is - It's all about making money. Maximum profit. You bet they will try and get out what they can. All we know is that they have said no items that make players more powerful - People might be able to buy themselves access to more beneficial things like more character slots, more storage and cosmetic cool looking things(Oblivion Horse Armor Mantra). They will get back on their business investment. They are people who want to be successful and want money like everybody else.
They way they describe sidekicking.. people seem to accept it. Sidekicking even removes the need to ever go beyond level 80, meaning, that GW2 does not have to face the problems WoW had when it went from 60 and up - ArenaNet can just make new races, classes and keep it at 80. sidekicking will allow high and low level players to experience any new lands they make, because you will be scaled to it.
Some people hated the scaling in Oblivion. You never felt powerful in Oblivion, because it didnt matter if you were level 1 or level 25. It still took the same amount of time to kill a spider because it would always be scaled to you with a 1:1 ratio to make it a challenge.
Anet has said that if you get scaled down you will still be powerful, but not to the point of one shotting everything. It will be interesting to see if their scaling is as powerful as they say.
Because lets be honest - their dynamic events and sidekicking system and structured pvp, is dependend on their scaling.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
All the basic design decisions of P2P and F2P are player retention, BUT without subs, or a item mall, Anet's strategy could be or may have change from player retention, to a more offline type design of a GOOD game only strategy. I mean I only play about 20 to 50 hours in GW1 and about the same for each expansion. Little grind, easy to recommend to others. Which obviously goes against the OP's preferences as FFA PvP is not conductive to large sales figures for casual players.
My preference is "obviously" not anything. Don't assume anything based on a thread title. I take no stance, merely ask a question.
Secondly, it's painting white a very marker to say that ArenaNet does not care about money? ArenaNet and NCsoft care about as much about money as Blizzard Activision and And Bioware and EA. All three also want to make the best game they can. All three, want their games to be the best games they can be, and play them themselves. There is nothing different here.
All of these games, from WoW to GW2 are giant business risks and investment. Carefully step back and think to yourself about alone how many many millions it cost to promote GW2 at tradeshows, what it costs to do trailers, to pay for journalists to travel half way around the hotel to play the game and write something favorable about the game, for all their testers, for the 175 people who have been working on it for the last 4-5 years.
Then you got the server team, the outsourcing, video codecs, technologies that they are paying royalties to - From SpeedTree to HavocPhysics, you suddenly have a lot of people who need a slice of the pie or who ArenaNet/NCsoft owes money too.
Then you have NCsoft itself, a company which only purpose is to make itself grow and look at profit. So far they seem to have let ArenaNet do their own thing, which is why GW ended up as a great product that expanded with many great things. Most people will tell you that the game is better now than it has ever been(I suspect nay-sayers will include those that get angry over nerfs... It happens in every game. Has too.).
My point is - It's all about making money. Maximum profit. You bet they will try and get out what they can. All we know is that they have said no items that make players more powerful - People might be able to buy themselves access to more beneficial things like more character slots, more storage and cosmetic cool looking things(Oblivion Horse Armor Mantra). They will get back on their business investment. They are people who want to be successful and want money like everybody else.
They way they describe sidekicking.. people seem to accept it. Sidekicking even removes the need to ever go beyond level 80, meaning, that GW2 does not have to face the problems WoW had when it went from 60 and up - ArenaNet can just make new races, classes and keep it at 80. sidekicking will allow high and low level players to experience any new lands they make, because you will be scaled to it.
Some people hated the scaling in Oblivion. You never felt powerful in Oblivion, because it didnt matter if you were level 1 or level 25. It still took the same amount of time to kill a spider because it would always be scaled to you with a 1:1 ratio to make it a challenge.
Anet has said that if you get scaled down you will still be powerful, but not to the point of one shotting everything. It will be interesting to see if their scaling is as powerful as they say.
Because lets be honest - their dynamic events and sidekicking system and structured pvp, is dependend on their scaling.
Heh, it really does seem that people are just reading the thread title and not the post. I did that once in a different thread and had to facepalm after reading the post because my reply was not even close to what was being discussed. Heh, you do stupid stuff when you're bored.
Wow after seeing that presentation it has immediately dropped my expectations on this game. Specially the part: Player Conflict will not be inherently built into GW 2.
That for me spells no World PvP, only a very controlled one I guess.
Ah well, PvPers can scratch this game and put their hopes in Archeage or Tera.
Hmm, guess I'll have to wait and see, but once again it appears to me that Arena net is not building a MMORPG, at least not as they have been traditionally designed.
As some have said, perhaps this is the next redefinition of the genre, in an attempt to make them into "fun" games.
I dunno though, for some of us, overcoming the "obstacles" is what was fun about the game, trying to advance our characters in spite of the challenges the game presented us.
Now we're going to go out and have "fun" somehow, but I'm not quite sure I see what that is. Still seems like its more action MMO than MMORPG.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Wow after seeing that presentation it has immediately dropped my expectations on this game. Specially the part: Player Conflict will not be inherently built into GW 2.
That for me spells no World PvP, only a very controlled one I guess.
Ah well, PvPers can scratch this game and put their hopes in Archeage or Tera.
You're right. The mechanics of normal areas are built to unite players against NPCs. Now hopefully this will create a sense of community within a world (which is what they call their servers) since the large scale pvp is a 3 way match (World vs World vs World) in a specific set of 4 zones. (1 home zone for each world and something in the middle based on an image I saw.) This is a frontier model of pvp seen in some other games. There are fortifications and resources to control. It has me reasonably excited considering we know little else. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_PvP
I might also dabble in 5 man structured group pvp. We don't know if that's between guilds or what, though.
Edit: btw the presentation talks about WvWvW pvp in the Q&A section at 45:15
Hmm, guess I'll have to wait and see, but once again it appears to me that Arena net is not building a MMORPG, at least not as they have been traditionally designed.
As some have said, perhaps this is the next redefinition of the genre, in an attempt to make them into "fun" games.
I dunno though, for some of us, overcoming the "obstacles" is what was fun about the game, trying to advance our characters in spite of the challenges the game presented us.
Now we're going to go out and have "fun" somehow, but I'm not quite sure I see what that is. Still seems like its more action MMO than MMORPG.
Actually, its an amalgamation of the three terms; Action MMORPG. There's definitely RPG elements in there. Just because they are removing the obstacles that they feel shouldn't be there doesn't mean that the game is any worse or shouldn't be called an RPG. It's not like they went all "Dragon Age 2" on the genre or something and butchered it down to nothing.
Wow after seeing that presentation it has immediately dropped my expectations on this game. Specially the part: Player Conflict will not be inherently built into GW 2.
That for me spells no World PvP, only a very controlled one I guess.
Ah well, PvPers can scratch this game and put their hopes in Archeage or Tera.
Well, it took you a while. It was known that theere will be no carebear ffa PvP in this game for over a few years now. When the game was unveiled, they said there will be no ffa PvP.
And not PvPers who enjoy real PvP will find GW2 to be the perfect place to be. GW had one of the best PvP systems and was really what you would call PvP not some ffa PvP for carebears
I am not sure why this thread is still around. The flame wars are taking more and more epic proportions ^_^
Originally posted by Zeroxin
Originally posted by Kyleran
Hmm, guess I'll have to wait and see, but once again it appears to me that Arena net is not building a MMORPG, at least not as they have been traditionally designed.
As some have said, perhaps this is the next redefinition of the genre, in an attempt to make them into "fun" games.
I dunno though, for some of us, overcoming the "obstacles" is what was fun about the game, trying to advance our characters in spite of the challenges the game presented us.
Now we're going to go out and have "fun" somehow, but I'm not quite sure I see what that is. Still seems like its more action MMO than MMORPG.
Actually, its an amalgamation of the three terms; Action MMORPG. There's definitely RPG elements in there. Just because they are removing the obstacles that they feel shouldn't be there doesn't mean that the game is any worse or shouldn't be called an RPG. It's not like they went all "Dragon Age 2" on the genre or something and butchered it down to nothing.
/Facepalm, anywaaaaaaaaaysssss. DA2 can also be considered an action RPG. SO DA2 = nothing = Action RPG, GW2 = Action RPG => GW2 = nothing....
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Wow after seeing that presentation it has immediately dropped my expectations on this game. Specially the part: Player Conflict will not be inherently built into GW 2.
That for me spells no World PvP, only a very controlled one I guess.
Ah well, PvPers can scratch this game and put their hopes in Archeage or Tera.
We already know that there will be no FFA open world gank-people-who-pve type of PvP in GW2. But people who like that aren't the PvPers, they are the "open world-PvPers". You just excluded the majority in your definintion, nice one.
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If you want to grief and gank then this game is probably not the one for you. AoC has a free for all, no holds bar, server coming up. You might try that or even something like Darkfall.
So fighting people on equal ground is carebearish while killing people who cant fight back is hardcore?
I played a lot of PvP games in my days starting with Lineage 2001 or 2002 and I never seen the point of killing someone that can't possible win. Yeah, I done it a few times but in most cases it was griefers killing noobs on my side.
In fact all my greatest PvP moments are against people who are stronger than me, or at least as strong and played good.
GW2 will offer many kinds of PvP on equal footing, the best people wins, not the ones with best gear.
So sure, I might be a carebear. But I am at least not a wuss.
And no, I can't even begin to understand how it can be fun to "win" over someone that can't possible fight back. I usually play a knight, good or evil. But even if I am evil I still uphold some kind of chivalry.
I play PvP to get challenged and GW2 seems like it will offer plenty of that.
Ive played several of those games. And my experience was usually the same. The thrill that some find in getting attacked at any time, is not that thrilling to me. This so called risk, is just the risk of starting a threadmill again because you lose loot.
Also a fight rarely happened when I was paying attention. Most of the time I got attacked when I had to pick up the phone, answer the door or had several windows open or was fighting a mob. Which only lead to frustration because of losing gear. When I actually tried to fight and was ready, the attacker tried to flee. It got very boring very fast.
I also joined groups of players and had fun for a short time facerolling (mainly solo) opponents. Because thats the other thing that got boring fast. In most FFA PVP games I played I saw rarely organised groups. Most just zerg based on numbers.
So far I only found good challenging PVP in Guild Wars and EVE. (never played DAoC unfortunately) They actually know how to play in a team there instead of just watching dps meters or gank again and again and again and again.
Most of the players in those FFA PVP games try to avoid any real challenge. Thats why I didnt like it.
I for one spent 4 years in the first GW so I think I at least have some ideas how the gameplay will be.
No one here knows all about it, well at least unless one of the higher ups of ANET reads this. But any long time GW players that keept themselves updated shoul at least understand some of what the game will offer.
Just like people who played "Heroes of might and magic V" have some idea what HOMM VI will offer for gameplay. Far from everything and there will be surprises no doubt but they will know some things.
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I agree to all three of you. GW2 isn't going to be a carebear mmo. ANet is trying to ensure that the community is socially good on each server thus so servers don't compete against themselves. It is kind of like DAoC like someone posted earlier in this thread. Each realm on the servers worked together and fought other realms.. GW2 is the same concept except in a bigger scale.
Something glimpsed my eye about the pvp #'s Colin spoke about today earlier in this thread but I forget who posted it. Basically what he means by 30 vs. 300 (let's say it's split 200/100 between 2 other Worlds) means that it "can" happen. Myself coming from a solid DAoC background (played for at least 5+ years), I've learned that alot of the time at least one side is at a disadvantage whether it be a group (DAoC groups consists of 8 people) vs 2 groups, a group vs 2 groups vs 2 groups, or a few groups vs a zerg vs a zerg. You can never plan out whether you are going to have the advantage/disadvantage but for what it is you just have to roll with it and think of ways to strategize on the fly.
It will almost never happen where it is even or close to even on all three sides. I highly think that the combat decisions that ANet have made to implement in their game are good ones and will even out the playing field skill wise just for the fact that it is more of an actiony mmo. THEREFORE, numbers don't matter as much as skill, yet there are times you can probably think of where you are just WAYYYY outnumbered. Something like this from DAoC where the Albion side is trying to defend their Relic (relics are important as they give bonuses to your realm) against the Midgard side which of course is outnumbered by HOLY SHIT BATMAN. Albion Zerg vs. A Few Groups of Midgards (point of view)
Nonetheless, have faith in ANet and the game they are making. I strongly believe in them and that the decisions they make when implementing new features (big or small) are for the best. Take what they say and convert it into positive energy about the game because so far everything they say holds true so why not just put all your marbles into one basket.
To all the trolls out there and "Omg GW2 is going to be TERRIBLE" people, if you don't agree about anything that I just said then don't buy or play the game. Stay with your "non carebear mmo" while myself and millions of other players enjoy playing GW2 because it's going to be that fucking awesome.
***Note*** If you haven't seen the Guild Wars 2 Pax East Panel discussion which happened on last Saturday, you should go check it out because you can learn alot about the game from it. Guild Wars 2 Pax East Panel ***End Note***
Side-kicking sounds interesting. Even if it is an aggressive solution to griefing, it is a solution.
The only concequent seems to to be progression and allowing players to progress where ever they want. As an option it does not affect those who still prefer the usual routes.
Upside to that is, if you have seen a certain area, and like to visit but it was a low lvl,.... 'Well, come one over, becuase now you can with the greatest deals in town and don't forget to come with a handy side kick by your side!' said the salesman in his salmany voice.
As for PvP, it wont be any different than places with contested zones.
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Leechx, apparently where you and I disagree is on the meaning of the word "carebear." Because you are obviously pro-PvP and pro-GW2, so I don't think we have any real disagreement other than imo.....carebear does not necessarily mean you don't like PvP, but rather that you don't like high level gankers ganking low level players. I've been called a carebear for that reason before and I don't hate PvP. I like a fair fight. I don't like a bunch of high level players getting togetther to steamroll low levels. GW2 won't be that way so "carebears" (like myself) might be fighting at your side and kicking ass WITH you.
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I think me and you are on two different pages heh. From what I am getting at, people are saying the game will be "carebear" because of all the precautions they took to enforce social gathering and cooperation within each server. I honestly think that that decision is a huge one because servers aren't competing against themselves then but rather against other servers. So yes I do think me and you are very agreeable on these matters except a minor misconception of the meaning of the word "carebear" lol. I am just sick and tired of people stereotyping a game that isn't really how it is. They obviously made those decisions for a few reasons such as: better community amongst own servers, prevent ganking on own servers, etc. etc. I used to play on a WoW PvP server at least a year or 2 ago and constantly got ganked by higher level players once I entered zones that were prone to ganking. I think it is just rather annoying to be trying to go through the PvE content and are interrupted by little bullshit like that. That is all that I am saying but yes I think me and you agree that GW2 is going to be a great game. Hehe.
Haha agreed. I'm sure these guys think about every possible problem of certain implementations and plan accordingly to prevent unbalanced play or "exploiting" in a way to cause bad experiences. Take for example, in the panel discussion someone asks a question about "what prevents people from ruining your dynamic event by just hitting a mob and sitting there not doing anything" or something of that sort. So basically ANet implements "Dynamic Event AI" that knows if people are actually contributing to the event or not and scales the event accordingly. That is just one example but just think of how careful they are being while they are making their game. They probably think of things that can ruin some certain feature and think of some way or ways to prevent people from ruining it.
Being B2P, wouldn't Arena Net's goal be to get people in and out ASAP? Their goal may simply be having a great time for 50 hours for casual players. While hardcore can play longer for PvP sake. I mean this is how GW1 was, why change the formula? The less time people are on the server, the more money they save.
There goal is to make the best MMO they possibly can without forcing people to pay an amount of money every month that they want to play it. It doesn't matter to ArenaNet if people who buy the game jump in and out or play non-stop.
ANet gears their games towards the players. They obviously don't put money as their #1 priority because they don't need to. The game they make is so good that they don't have to worry about that kind of stuff because people are inclined to play. Oh, and also if you didn't know.. they release new content alot quicker than other companies do to keep people playing (some content being free but major expansions being B2P but not as expensive as the game costs.. or at least that's how it was for GW1). So I mean why would they want to get people in and out ASAP. They are gearing the game towards the players and that people love playing their game, not for the fact that they are or aren't saving money. ANet is a company that actually cares about the quality of their game and their players.
And this is why ANet is such a goddamn good company. I pretty much posted the same thing you said here in my previous post quoting Daitengu. ANet is by far my favorite company in the mmorpg gaming industry right now and this only a small branch to the tree of reasons why they are.
As I see it, Arenanet is a company and companies need to make money. They have taken alot of risk with innovation and played it safe with some features. The decision to not have a subscription has many reason but I believe it is a wonderful marketing tool, it will make more people buy the game since it is less of an investment for the buyer.
If people do not keep playing the game I think that would hurt the WvW pvp, you need people playing at different times of the day. The server-communities that will be built around the server vs server mentality will probably not benefint from having a big flow of new people coming in and old people leaving all the time. What kind of community would that be when no one knows eachother?
All the basic design decisions of P2P and F2P are player retention, BUT without subs, or a item mall, Anet's strategy could be or may have change from player retention, to a more offline type design of a GOOD game only strategy. I mean I only play about 20 to 50 hours in GW1 and about the same for each expansion. Little grind, easy to recommend to others. Which obviously goes against the OP's preferences as FFA PvP is not conductive to large sales figures for casual players.
Then its a damn good thing the people at Anet are designing the game to be as fun as they possibly can. They are making the game so you actually want to play it. I'm pretty sure if people want to keep playing the game then they will.
My preference is "obviously" not anything. Don't assume anything based on a thread title. I take no stance, merely ask a question.
Secondly, it's painting white a very marker to say that ArenaNet does not care about money? ArenaNet and NCsoft care about as much about money as Blizzard Activision and And Bioware and EA. All three also want to make the best game they can. All three, want their games to be the best games they can be, and play them themselves. There is nothing different here.
All of these games, from WoW to GW2 are giant business risks and investment. Carefully step back and think to yourself about alone how many many millions it cost to promote GW2 at tradeshows, what it costs to do trailers, to pay for journalists to travel half way around the hotel to play the game and write something favorable about the game, for all their testers, for the 175 people who have been working on it for the last 4-5 years.
Then you got the server team, the outsourcing, video codecs, technologies that they are paying royalties to - From SpeedTree to HavocPhysics, you suddenly have a lot of people who need a slice of the pie or who ArenaNet/NCsoft owes money too.
Then you have NCsoft itself, a company which only purpose is to make itself grow and look at profit. So far they seem to have let ArenaNet do their own thing, which is why GW ended up as a great product that expanded with many great things. Most people will tell you that the game is better now than it has ever been(I suspect nay-sayers will include those that get angry over nerfs... It happens in every game. Has too.).
My point is - It's all about making money. Maximum profit. You bet they will try and get out what they can. All we know is that they have said no items that make players more powerful - People might be able to buy themselves access to more beneficial things like more character slots, more storage and cosmetic cool looking things(Oblivion Horse Armor Mantra). They will get back on their business investment. They are people who want to be successful and want money like everybody else.
That does not mean, they can't make a fantastic game though. In yesterdays QA, ( http://uk.gamespot.com/events/paxeast2011/video.html?sid=6303654 ) it seemed like ArenaNet know what they are doing.
They way they describe sidekicking.. people seem to accept it. Sidekicking even removes the need to ever go beyond level 80, meaning, that GW2 does not have to face the problems WoW had when it went from 60 and up - ArenaNet can just make new races, classes and keep it at 80. sidekicking will allow high and low level players to experience any new lands they make, because you will be scaled to it.
Some people hated the scaling in Oblivion. You never felt powerful in Oblivion, because it didnt matter if you were level 1 or level 25. It still took the same amount of time to kill a spider because it would always be scaled to you with a 1:1 ratio to make it a challenge.
Anet has said that if you get scaled down you will still be powerful, but not to the point of one shotting everything. It will be interesting to see if their scaling is as powerful as they say.
Because lets be honest - their dynamic events and sidekicking system and structured pvp, is dependend on their scaling.
Heh, it really does seem that people are just reading the thread title and not the post. I did that once in a different thread and had to facepalm after reading the post because my reply was not even close to what was being discussed. Heh, you do stupid stuff when you're bored.
This is not a game.
Wow after seeing that presentation it has immediately dropped my expectations on this game. Specially the part: Player Conflict will not be inherently built into GW 2.
That for me spells no World PvP, only a very controlled one I guess.
Ah well, PvPers can scratch this game and put their hopes in Archeage or Tera.
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Hmm, guess I'll have to wait and see, but once again it appears to me that Arena net is not building a MMORPG, at least not as they have been traditionally designed.
As some have said, perhaps this is the next redefinition of the genre, in an attempt to make them into "fun" games.
I dunno though, for some of us, overcoming the "obstacles" is what was fun about the game, trying to advance our characters in spite of the challenges the game presented us.
Now we're going to go out and have "fun" somehow, but I'm not quite sure I see what that is. Still seems like its more action MMO than MMORPG.
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You're right. The mechanics of normal areas are built to unite players against NPCs. Now hopefully this will create a sense of community within a world (which is what they call their servers) since the large scale pvp is a 3 way match (World vs World vs World) in a specific set of 4 zones. (1 home zone for each world and something in the middle based on an image I saw.) This is a frontier model of pvp seen in some other games. There are fortifications and resources to control. It has me reasonably excited considering we know little else. http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_PvP
I might also dabble in 5 man structured group pvp. We don't know if that's between guilds or what, though.
Edit: btw the presentation talks about WvWvW pvp in the Q&A section at 45:15
Actually, its an amalgamation of the three terms; Action MMORPG. There's definitely RPG elements in there. Just because they are removing the obstacles that they feel shouldn't be there doesn't mean that the game is any worse or shouldn't be called an RPG. It's not like they went all "Dragon Age 2" on the genre or something and butchered it down to nothing.
This is not a game.
Well, it took you a while. It was known that theere will be no carebear ffa PvP in this game for over a few years now. When the game was unveiled, they said there will be no ffa PvP.
And not PvPers who enjoy real PvP will find GW2 to be the perfect place to be. GW had one of the best PvP systems and was really what you would call PvP not some ffa PvP for carebears
I am not sure why this thread is still around. The flame wars are taking more and more epic proportions ^_^
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We already know that there will be no FFA open world gank-people-who-pve type of PvP in GW2. But people who like that aren't the PvPers, they are the "open world-PvPers". You just excluded the majority in your definintion, nice one.