Do you believe in a God

CactusmanX · May 2005

WOW 81 pages this has proven to be quit a moot point lol

Eva-01 · May 2005

Wowzorz, and yes i belive there is a god.

Harashar · May 2005

I'm sorry this may sound immature but people actually believe that some guy called Noah built a big wooden Ark and put two of every animal on it and sailed around during a huge biblical flood.........people actually believe this?!

Thantanos · May 2005

Well for the thing about Noah, how does it prove that the Bible is true. i mean, weren't all myths basedf on the truth? So, there could have been a big flood, but that does not mean that the whole story about Noah is true, does it? And maybe people did have big boats with their animals on it, but that does not show that the rest of the Bible is true. I bet some other north american religions or maybe African tribal religions have stories about floods, but does that mean the whole story is true? The only reason that the Christianity version is accepted is because it is the most popular religion at this time. My religion, hinduism, has a story about this.

http://members.cox.net/apamnapat/articles/Dasavatar00b.html

Edit: All it proves, really, is that there was most likely a big flood with lots and lots of rain all over the world several thousand years ago.

Marketh126 · May 2005

Originally posted by Thantanos

Well for the thing about Noah, how does it prove that the Bible is true. i mean, weren't all myths basedf on the truth? So, there could have been a big flood, but that does not mean that the whole story about Noah is true, does it? And maybe people did have big boats with their animals on it, but that does not show that the rest of the Bible is true. I bet some other north american religions or maybe African tribal religions have stories about floods, but does that mean the whole story is true? The only reason that the Christianity version is accepted is because it is the most popular religion at this time. My religion, hinduism, has a story about this.
http://members.cox.net/apamnapat/articles/Dasavatar00b.html
Edit: All it proves, really, is that there was most likely a big flood with lots and lots of rain all over the world several thousand years ago.

OK about the ark thing...no one has proved it but there is proff that there was a flood that wiped out all of the world except for a few and there was a 1/8 of a GINORMOUS boat found somewhere in isreal or the middle east.....

GOOD BYE

themainevent · May 2005

Originally posted by knives22

Everytime I see a discussion like this one, I ask the non-believers "What are the chances of Something as big as the universe to be created and start a chain-Of-Event's based on pure coincidence that innevitably Led to life".You do the math I mean, something had to create atoms..Thing's just don't appear.

A very good point. There has to be somethin that has always been, ans started everything. All of the "big bang theories" and things like that, think about it. How would that create the solar system? All the planets? The people on Earth? Everything on earth? I believe in god. Some people say people believe its for people who have nothing going for them. I strongly disagree. Read some stories. You will see many people now, and in our history believe in christ. Sure its going to be hard to believe in him somtimes. Like asking yourself, how is her perfect? How did he make everything? etc. Well, as i said. things didnt make themselves, something had have always been. Also, saying why would god let things like this happen? He is teaching us, right from wrong. None of us are close to bein worthy of him. He gives us grace. If he made this world perfect, it would be boring, dull, and completely pointless. God made each one of us and does the best he can, throwing us signals and things trying to get us to follow him. It is the power of Satan that stops you. He makes you want to rebel. Sure, we all do. As i said, what would life be if we were all perfect? Try it people. I dont care how much you dont believe in god. If your down sometime, pray about it. And dont go expecting him to help you right away. Dont expect him to help that much with what your praying for, at first. Give him time, see what he can do for you. See how much more happy he can make you. People, this is just a life we have been given... try to live it to its best.

Vassago · May 2005

You can't prove or even reasonably argue either way whether God exists or not, choosing to believe is a matter of preference. However, I think atheists have a stronger argument for the non-existance of God.

If you interpret different experiences to God, that's fine, but it's not a necessary objective attribution. There are other explanations that not only suffice, but are rational and in many cases, more reasonable than to attribute events to the 'God explanation'.

If you get vertiginous shock just thinking about the infinite depth of space and time, that's because we're all puny humans. Your mind is finite, it cannot encompass the infinite, so stop trying by stuffing the explanation into a bottle with God on the label.

If you think that humans would resort to relative morality without a belief in God, you're very wrong. There is a place between relative morality and absolute morality. It's provisional morality. The bible served to ossify moral guidelines that already existed within humans by placing them into a book.

If you think science is a contradictory program of truth in competition with religion, you're also wrong. That is comparing apples to oranges, and the overlap of universal explanatory theories(evolution/creation) can be reconciled, as the science council employed by the former Pope declared. In 1996, the Pope released an essay called "Truth Cannot Contradict Truth", which goes into detail on the assimilation of evolution into Faith.

There are 33,820 denominations of Christianity, so any arguments that serve a mutually exlusive agenda in refusing the Pope's conclusion are bound by the irrationality of their being that many denominations which are excluded in the process. This reasoning leads one to assume that they are correct out of 33,820 denominations. That's highly unlikely.

Thantanos · May 2005

[quote]Originally posted by Marketh126
[b]

Originally posted by Thantanos
Well for the thing about Noah, how does it prove that the Bible is true. i mean, weren't all myths basedf on the truth? So, there could have been a big flood, but that does not mean that the whole story about Noah is true, does it? And maybe people did have big boats with their animals on it, but that does not show that the rest of the Bible is true. I bet some other north american religions or maybe African tribal religions have stories about floods, but does that mean the whole story is true? The only reason that the Christianity version is accepted is because it is the most popular religion at this time. My religion, hinduism, has a story about this.
[url=http://members.cox.net/apamnapat/articles/Dasavatar00b.html]
Edit: All it proves, really, is that there was most likely a big flood with lots and lots of rain all over the world several thousand years ago.

OK about the ark thing...no one has proved it but there is proff that there was a flood that wiped out all of the world except for a few and there was a 1/8 of a GINORMOUS boat found somewhere in isreal or the middle east.....
GOOD BYE[/b][/quote]

But what is to suggest that it was Noah who built that ark? If the same type of story was written in totally different cultures, religions ,and places, that means that maybe the Noah written in the Bible might have been the same as Manu in the Hindu version. As for the location, I don't really think that it matters; in a storm like that, the Manu guy could have probably been buffeted to there in seven days and seven nights. They don't even mention his start position. The Noah story does not do anything to prove that the Bible is right; all it shows is that there was a big flood a really long time ago.

Axala · May 2005

Wow, I just skip to the end now; can't even think about reading all this. But one of the points that keeps getting brought up is proving the bible right or wrong. Have any of you thought that that is akin to say proving Magna Carta right or wrong, or maybe proving that letter from grandma right or wrong. The bible is a historical document, or more correctly an incomplete collections of historical documents that were written mostly by religious figures about what they saw; written in ancient Hebrew mind you. It is no more accurate then any of the other text throughout history. People write events as they saw them, with their biases, waxing poetic often times, describe things in metaphors that maybe today are not understood. It is also not any less accurate then any of the other historical texts. It is people accounts of what happened. Often by second or even third-hand knowledge. There was no intention to deceive people, to spin a huge web of lies (though the crucifixion and subsequent raising from the dead is suspect) Most of the various books were written by people who didn't know each other, written at different times. They had no idea that eventually they'd be collected into a large religious compiling. You can bet that the stories in the bible have truth to them. No it isn't the whole truth, yes there is some strong beliefs and skewed perceptions because of this; but so is just about anything you read that is supposed non-fiction. The bible is no proof there is a God anymore then showing that a story from the bible isn't 100% accurate is proof there isn't a God.

One of the big complaints while we were still colonial was taxation without representation. Truth is we didn't want representation, that was a bunch of PR bullshit. We knew it, the British knew it. Today it is a huge historical catch phrase like it means something. The truth is hard to know. You can guess this much. Even if we had a representative in the British congress, they'd have been voted down every stinking time, then we'd have no reason whatsoever to complain about the taxes, Well other then the fact we thought the were too high and didn't want to pay them. Of course, without a representative we thought they were to high and didn't want to pay them. Whether the British flat out refused to allow a representative, or we colonists never pushed to have one but instead used it as an excuse complain depends on how you read history. You take what you want from the biblical stories, religious or not, it is how you read it; proving it right or wrong is not possible, and proving it inaccurate is futile as all historical documents are.

Instago · May 2005

A very good point. There has to be somethin that has always been, ans started everything. All of the "big bang theories" and things like that, think about it. How would that create the solar system? All the planets? The people on Earth? Everything on earth? I believe in god.

I believe it is something much more simple than God simply being and creating everything- I believe that the universe simple is, and it always has been, and always will be. Throwing 'God' into the mix raises the questions we already have about the universe and adds even more questions like "Why is there God?" "What is it?"

Axala- I completely agree, I wish there were more people with minds such as yours . The problem is the ignorance and arrogance in people who do think a mere compilation of stories proves something.

How would that create the solar system? All the planets? The people on Earth? Everything on earth?

Most science books has answers these questions.

Also, I've seen someone use an argument like this to show support for the Bible: "If there are so many sources that talk about these events, it must be true!"

Almost every civilized (can write things down) culture that ever has lived on Earth has stories and legends about a well-known mythical creature- dragons. This does not mean, however, that there were dragons that lived on the Earth, and to this day, there is no evidence to support that they ever existed. What I'm poking at is that just because a story is widely known, even universally, does not mean that it actually happend as depicted in the story.

And the big picture is (drum roll!): Don't believe everything you hear, feel, see, touch, or smell . Of course, you could, and I shouldn't blame you if you trusted your senses, but you need to realise that the only thing you can be sure of is yourself. All I can be sure of is that I exist.

knightknife · May 2005

If there is not a God than how was the universe created? like this "there was a big bang and knocked all the elements into place and they expanded and started to take form only to explode and randomly create the earth and there was another explosion and a third of the earth was taken away into space and made the moon and somehow the moon created different minerals than the earth....and on goes the story of evolution"!!!!!!

Evolution is crazy. Anyone who believes in evolution (which is the only other alternative than that there is a God) needs to think a little. I mean every time people try to prove evolution right they prove the BIBLE correct (and no no the koran). The Bible tells of how the earth was created by GOD. Some people try to make other religions that are ridiculus. the correct religion would be any of them that follow strictly the Bible such as Baptists and Methodist (not Catholics who add a whole bunch about Marry). Anyways I believe in a heaven and a hell and in GOD. It is either you believe in God or Evolution. Believe me there is nothing else.

knightknife · May 2005

Originally posted by Instago

And the big picture is (drum roll!): Don't believe everything you hear, feel, see, touch, or smell . Of course, you could, and I shouldn't blame you if you trusted your senses, but you need to realise that the only thing you can be sure of is yourself. All I can be sure of is that I exist.

Dude you really need to read the Bible. I mean if you do not trust your senses than how can you even be sure that you exists? Science only proves the Bible correct. How else would there be a stable earth? I used to hate thinking about such things before i became a Christian but now i know that the Bible is true. Just a few things to think about. I obviously i believe in God.

Sonic4325 · May 2005

Yeah

knightknife · May 2005

Originally posted by Sonic4325
Yeah

u sure like to talk. at least put if u believe in God or not

Axala · May 2005

Another point I forgot to add. Stop arguing God vs. Evolution as though they were mutually exclusive. We know that evolution exists. We can see the mutations that take place in animals; insects are particularly quick when it comes to evolving and adapting to their environment and so they are a good place to start your study. Doesn't mean that the earth evolved the way the evolutionists think it did. In fact, you can bet money that it did not because one. They don't all agree and so obviously one theory that supports all the evidence doesn't exist, and two, because the theory of how life evolved on this planet has been ever changing ever since it was first put forth and so will likely continue to change for centuries at least.

So a point I like to put forward just to piss both groups off, but also get them thinking. Ever think that maybe evolution is one of the tools that God used to create everything? That maybe just maybe all those gaps in evolution theory are when God had to step in and add a touch of his magic to keep things going the way he wanted? And finally; can't we all just get along?

Aldaron · May 2005

Originally posted by knightknife

Originally posted by Sonic4325
Yeah

u sure like to talk. at least put if u believe in God or not

I think he was replying to the original post and saying, "yeah", he believes in God. I could be wrong. but that's how I interpreted it.

Aldaron · May 2005

Originally posted by Axala
Another point I forgot to add. Stop arguing God vs. Evolution as though they were mutually exclusive. We know that evolution exists. We can see the mutations that take place in animals; insects are particularly quick when it comes to evolving and adapting to their environment and so they are a good place to start your study. Doesn't mean that the earth evolved the way the evolutionists think it did. In fact, you can bet money that it did not because one. They don't all agree and so obviously one theory that supports all the evidence doesn't exist, and two, because the theory of how life evolved on this planet has been ever changing ever since it was first put forth and so will likely continue to change for centuries at least.

What has been proven is more or less adaptation. Not extreme mututational "evolution" that most scientists claim.

Eskimo's are a good example. They for the most part can stand the cold alot easier then most other people. You could almost say their bodies have built "muscles" for it. It's adaptation. Like getting buff from working on a farm.

But they are still completely and utterly human, not more different then arnold schwarzenagger was 18 years ago from the majority of other people.

They just "grew muscles" against the cold. They adapted.

So no, no one knows that evolution exists, people theorize that evolution exists. Hence why there is even this argument to begin with.

So a point I like to put forward just to piss both groups off, but also get them thinking. Ever think that maybe evolution is one of the tools that God used to create everything? That maybe just maybe all those gaps in evolution theory are when God had to step in and add a touch of his magic to keep things going the way he wanted? And finally; can't we all just get along?

uhm. Why create clay, and slowly shape the pot over a period of millions of years. When you could just create the pot from the getgo?

LastSpartan · June 2005

I don't think we will ever find out if god exist but that might just me because of the time we live in. Humans always try to explain things with their imagination, just look at greek mythology. They didn't know how to explain the suns movement in the sky so they made up a story. Even today we do this just look at the miracle. All that we can depend on this math and science.

I'm kinda weird though cause I believe in ghost which goes against the math and science we know but,thats the problem we don't know enough to understand them. I also believe in god but I don't believe in the god people try to put a face on. However, I've been to a small town in Mexico where I wondered about it. I was staying with a very religious family at the time when I witnessed a statue of Jesus Christ on the cross move. Well I didn't actually see the movement but woke up the next day with Jesus head turned the other way. This was a very large statue with no way to move the head without breaking it.... I asked them about it and they said it happens from time time. Now you have to wonder did it move because God did it or because they want it to?

We are left to wonder till math and science give us real answers.

Instago · June 2005

Originally posted by knightknife
If there is not a God than how was the universe created? like this "there was a big bang and knocked all the elements into place and they expanded and started to take form only to explode and randomly create the earth and there was another explosion and a third of the earth was taken away into space and made the moon and somehow the moon created different minerals than the earth....and on goes the story of evolution"!!!!!!
Evolution is crazy. Anyone who believes in evolution (which is the only other alternative than that there is a God) needs to think a little. I mean every time people try to prove evolution right they prove the BIBLE correct (and no no the koran). The Bible tells of how the earth was created by GOD. Some people try to make other religions that are ridiculus. the correct religion would be any of them that follow strictly the Bible such as Baptists and Methodist (not Catholics who add a whole bunch about Marry). Anyways I believe in a heaven and a hell and in GOD. It is either you believe in God or Evolution. Believe me there is nothing else.

I sincerely hope that is some kind of joke.

I mean if you do not trust your senses than how can you even be sure that you exists? Science only proves the Bible correct. How else would there be a stable earth? I used to hate thinking about such things before i became a Christian but now i know that the Bible is true. Just a few things to think about. I obviously i believe in God.

I trust my senses to a certain extent- how do I know I exist? Because, by my definition, I have come to a realisation that I do exist. There would be a stable Earth because of rudimentary laws and theories of science (aka the real world, aka logic).

I showed overwhelming support debunking a major part of the bible and you still believe that the 'Bible' is proof of everything?

Yeah, for the record, I have lost nearly complete faith in humanity... but I still have hope that one day, our ignorance and arrogance will cease to exist.

I'd also like to add that Heaven is a state of mind, and I am currently in it.

can't we all just get along?

Axala, we could, but there is one person that usually ruin's it for everyone .

Aldaron · June 2005

Originally posted by Instago

I showed overwhelming support debunking a major part of the bible and you still believe that the 'Bible' is proof of everything?

Who's to say that methusaleh tree wasn't on the ark...?

Instago · June 2005

Trees need fresh water, and a steady supply of nutrients. Before we even go into this argument over a tree, I suggest you look up a bit about trees and the exact specifications of Methuselah. I do not wish to enter an argument with an uneducated person on the particular subject that is being argued over. I know you can do it, it just takes time and an open-mind. Go down to your local botanist and ask them if a tree could survive on a boat for one year.

Trees have roots, therefore, those roots need to go relatively far into the ground- I do not think the tree has shallow roots, it has deep roats. This means the boat would have to have had a VERY large compartment, with fresh water, soil, and a large opening for sunlight for it to even have a chance at survival. I have read about the story of the Ark, and there is no hints of any plants being added to it, nor are there any 'blueprints' of the Ark that contain a room that could keep a rather full-grown tree alive and well for a lengthy period of time.

Also, if there was a tree on the ark, there would have been writing about it- and once again, it is a different story if you change it. So, if you add a tree to the ark, we are no longer talking about Noah's Ark at all, but a true falsity- one that has no relevence to anything whatsoever.

Aldaron · June 2005

Originally posted by Instago

If there was a tree on the ark, there would have been writing about it- and once again, it is a different story if you change it. So, if you add a tree to the ark, we are no longer talking about Noah's Ark at all, but a true falsity- one that has no relevence to anything whatsoever.

lol.

"Chapter 10 verse 9. And as well as 2 of every landbreathing creature. There was 200 pounds of sand. 10 bushes. 4 willow tree's. And what is 4500 years later known as a methusaleh tree. Oh, and a couple hundred roaches."

It's the bible, not a 4000 year long screenplay.

Aldaron · June 2005

Originally posted by Instago
Trees need fresh water, and a steady supply of nutrients. Before we even go into this argument over a tree, I suggest you look up a bit about trees and the exact specifications of Methuselah. I do not wish to enter an argument with an uneducated person on the particular subject that is being argued over. I know you can do it, it just takes time and an open-mind. Go down to your local botanist and ask them if a tree could survive on a boat for one year.

In fact, if it was a baby tree, it wouldn't be that hard to simulate the right enviroment for it to survive.

Trees have roots, therefore, those roots need to go relatively far into the ground- I do not think the tree has shallow roots, it has deep roats. This means the boat would have to have had a VERY large compartment, with fresh water, soil, and a large opening for sunlight for it to even have a chance at survival. I have read about the story of the Ark, and there is no hints of any plants being added to it, nor are there any 'blueprints' of the Ark that contain a room that could keep a rather full-grown tree alive and well for a lengthy period of time.

Again. Look at above. And the relatively small measurements it would of needed to simulate the right enviroment for a tree(s) to survive on a man made boat in their juvenile years. Especially a boat of such magnitude.

Oh, and I'd like to look at these ark blueprints.

P.S.

Before you bring up the sunlight ordeal. The flood was not a normal "rainstorm". And could of easily had adequate sunlight.

Also, if there was a tree on the ark, there would have been writing about it- and once again, it is a different story if you change it. So, if you add a tree to the ark, we are no longer talking about Noah's Ark at all, but a true falsity- one that has no relevence to anything whatsoever.

Axala · June 2005

True we can't prove severe evolution. One of the funny things about the theory, it takes time. After all evolution mean slow change. But one can theorize with some certainty that things evolve; not the way one may think they do, but that they do indeed evolve. As to why God would use evolution. Well why would he make life at all? I nor you nor anyone can know the mind of God (one of those nifty little things that let people say, that's just the way God does things) Are we an experiment, pawns in a cosmic game, just someone put here to appreciate his work? I know if I was going to create the universe I would definitely implement laws (oh I don't know say the laws of physics) and such so that it could run without my micro management.

If you could bring a rose into full bloom with but a thought; would you deny yourself the experience of watching it grow?

kengo677 · June 2005

The Bible were written by men, I agree with that but you guys are forgetting that it was with God's guidance and inspiration that the Bible was written. In the end it was really God who wrote it with man as his instrument.

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