The lifeless crafting is true. Why copying the stupid mindless wow system, when the EQ2 or VG systems are so great?
This is the mindset that is so awful, both of those systems are dull, generic, and checklists with a pretty coat of paint, but an MMO player is so easily appeased, try Free Realms, which has by far the best "crafting" I've ever experienced.
The lifeless crafting is true. Why copying the stupid mindless wow system, when the EQ2 or VG systems are so great?
This is the mindset that is so awful, both of those systems are dull, generic, and checklists with a pretty coat of paint, but an MMO player is so easily appeased, try Free Realms, which has by far the best "crafting" I've ever experienced.
actually Star Wars Galaxies had some of the best crafting till SOE fudged it all up
I think people are missing the point about why quests feel like the same old thing. It's because there aren't many other ways, if any, that work.
Of course there are other Questing-Methods than just...
a) bring item x to person y
b) escort xyz
c) kill x amount of y-type of monster
d) "discover" / "scout" location x (by just going there and get your free xp)
e) craft x number of items using y (alchemy, weapon/armor-smithing etcpp) and bring them to npc z
Now let me think for 10seconds and I can give you a ton of new (or less used) Ideas and I'm not even a Dev:
1) Talk to Person x and convince her to do y and then kill Person x for doing y. Talk to Person z that Person x done y. Or Betrayal, kill the Quest Npc and get along with the Person you should actually have killed. Or just copy the whole Fable 3 Concept and improve it ;-)
2) A whole bunch of Baldurs-Gate like Chat-Dialogues which you actually HAVE TO READ in order to get to your Goal (whatever that might be then)
3) Sneak up to Person x1 and x2, hide behind y and listen what they talk about. either kill them or talk to Npc z (from Age of Conan)
4) Study different Books in a Library - omg noe, reading againn! - to find out what happened to Person x 100years ago / Study Corpses of mumified Victims (etc). This be a hint what happened to Person y which you have to find / discover Person z's hideout / secret Society (etc)
5) Raise a Pet. Train him skills, at which the Pet suxx hard at the Beginning. Plant a Tree which takes some time: An acricultural-crafting Idea. This can all be part of a bigger Quest.
6) For every Quest, give the Player the Option how he wants to complete it and give him atleast a good/bad/neutral Option!
7) Or hey! Quests do not exist. It's all based on "do what you want / discover what you want" . Then you insert an Oblivion/The Secret World-like Skill-improving system . And get beaten up by Mobs because u were too weak in the first Place but now can whoop their arses (etc)
and this is just an example. but Stuff isn't hard when you actually wan't to do it.
And don't say there are no other Ways. God damnit - IDEAS ARE INFINITE! There IS no CAN'T DO. And your not even talking about Real-Life - talking about a Virtual World where everything can happen!
Phew :-)
I did not say that there weren't more ideas out there. If you read what you quoted me on, I said that "work." You can not take single player game quests and directly port them to MMO's.
Can you imagine the trouble there would be if you had to kill quest givers. What would everyone else do that was questing? Just wait? What if your in the middle of talking to the person and someone kills her/it? And while this does happen in PvP, you have the opportunity to kill the person killing your npc, while if you are the same side, you do not have that option.
All your ideas about reading quests and books, may seem interesting, but look at your audience. Most mmo players do not even read the paragraph or two of quest text as it stands now. There are lots of detective games out there, but they never hit the success that action games do.
Plant a tree? Seriously..you want to go get a seed, plant it, and come back days later after you have outleveled the quest to water it? Think about progression and how long you spend in one zone. Static items don't work unless its for crafting or cosmetic reasons.
And sure there are games where you do not need quests, but then you do not have a story. Or the story revolves around the players and thats an entirely different type of game, and if thats really what you want you can go play EvE, or Earthrise, or other non-level based games.
So while you can come up with infinite ideas, it doesn't mean that they are good ones. In fact, a vast majority of ideas are just bad, which is why they haven't made it into mainstream MMO's yet. So again to reiterate, I think people are missing the point about why quests feel like the same old thing. It's because there aren't many other ways, if any, that work.
I managed to snag one of those weekend trial codes (you know, the one designed to insure that Rift's servers have enough people online for their big "event") and honestly couldn't progress past the character creation screen. After playing most of the beta events, plus some extended time on the alpha server, I just couldn't muster up much interest to play.
Finally, after clicking through the uninspired character models a couple of times, I shut down the client and went back to working on my Sims house. I just couldn't be arsed to go further with Rift.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
You've just outlined the state of the genre itself. This game is the perfect example of the mmorpg genre 2.0. Games have been using 2.0 mechanics for a while now. Were you really expecting something incremental? That's not going to happen until publishers are willing to take the chance with a solid design. You're going to see more 2.0 games and more games fail before you see a company taking a chance with a "3.0" (or 2.5) and succeeding.
I think this is spot on... And I feel they should develop the pvp side of things more for end-game content. I hope they don't stick mostly to raids because i lead a way to busy life now to where "us casual players" can't spend hours on end doing some raids for thrills in a game. There are only 4 arena style play fields, which seems cool for now, but in a month or two they will get old. Makes me want to give Warhammer another run...
I agree, Rift was great 1-50. At 50 the endgame is just more of the same. Ive already cancelled my sub. Hopefully the next thing out will really capture my attention.
There is only one problem with Rift, its the source of all its problems, its just a clone, it have no inovative thinking whatsoever in the design. Even the Rift aspect is just too shallow, they should have gone further and as deeper they could in that idea, but they didn't for their lost.
Its the source of all his problems, and it was pointed all over the net. But ye it was designed that way, it's a huge mistake and the fact it was choosen that way doesn't help it at all, the mistake is there. People need change now more than ever, it is a fact anyone with a little sense of strategy could understand. Rift is a good game made over bad intentions, how far it will bring them, nobody know, it depend on the concurent games that will be release next 2 years.
you know the one thing i dislike the most about sheeple posting to these forums is this, rift is a clone? Are you kidding me? The second thing is "Rift didn't innovate" sheeple who make this statement have obviously not played many mmo's
Seriously folks it is NOT a clone of any ONE game, it is a combination of many games. DAoC, AoC, Lotro, WoW, AQ2 its got a few elements of each in there and this isn't a problem with the company it's a problem with the genre.
Examples of their innovation for the ignorant include: Dungeons that grow with your toons level, rifts themselves no one has ever done that before, the soul system allowing a player to combine any soul together for a unique character every time no ones done that before, the way the rifts appear Randomly in the world no one has coded random events into an mmo before.
Oh and just because you few have blasted through the leveling content without even glancing at what the quests are saying only to reach the end of game disappointed doesn't mean that's the games fault thats the impatient players fault because i for one never play a game just to get to the end of it i play to enjoy the WHOLE THING. seriously, sheeple who run through things like this never enjoy anything and are always changing games and blaming the devs for it.
you know the one thing i dislike the most about sheeple posting to these forums is this, rift is a clone? Are you kidding me? The second thing is "Rift didn't innovate" sheeple who make this statement have obviously not played many mmo's
Seriously folks it is NOT a clone of any ONE game, it is a combination of many games. DAoC, AoC, Lotro, WoW, AQ2 its got a few elements of each in there and this isn't a problem with the company it's a problem with the genre.
Examples of their innovation for the ignorant include: Dungeons that grow with your toons level, rifts themselves no one has ever done that before, the soul system allowing a player to combine any soul together for a unique character every time no ones done that before, the way the rifts appear Randomly in the world no one has coded random events into an mmo before.
Oh and just because you few have blasted through the leveling content without even glancing at what the quests are saying only to reach the end of game disappointed doesn't mean that's the games fault thats the impatient players fault because i for one never play a game just to get to the end of it i play to enjoy the WHOLE THING. seriously, sheeple who run through things like this never enjoy anything and are always changing games and blaming the devs for it.
>IMO< you left WAR / warhammer out...its alot like war and basicly same type of looking grafic's ..just thought id add that lil tid bit to your comment + yea there are some lil things that that they took and added but they basicly copy / pasted wow's interface and slaped WAR's grafic's onto it ..but thats just >IMO< and everyone talks like rifts are soo dynamic but >IMO< they are just like PQ in WAR ...it will die and get very dull soon..also like a game called WAR
My Rift account currently has 1 day left on it. Im am currently the highest ranking pvp player on my server. About to Achieve rank 6. There are many flaw's to the pvp system that Trion has set up. It has to be one of the most frustrating games to pvp in. With the current changes to warriors they amount to a punching bag in pvp. Pve content is grinding the same few dungeons. Daily for tokens to get gear that basically only improves the mitigation so you can grind higher. If your looking to be entertained for a month this game can do it. But dont expect much more. Stay away from the pvp. If you must play and want high end gaming Mage and Cleric are the only way to go.
My advice Stay away. Looking for Guild Wars 2 in the up comming future.
My Rift account currently has 1 day left on it. Im am currently the highest ranking pvp player on my server. About to Achieve rank 6. There are many flaw's to the pvp system that Trion has set up. It has to be one of the most frustrating games to pvp in. With the current changes to warriors they amount to a punching bag in pvp. Pve content is grinding the same few dungeons. Daily for tokens to get gear that basically only improves the mitigation so you can grind higher. If your looking to be entertained for a month this game can do it. But dont expect much more. Stay away from the pvp. If you must play and want high end gaming Mage and Cleric are the only way to go.
My advice Stay away. Looking for Guild Wars 2 in the up comming future.
Speaknspell.
50 Warrior Rank 5
Tearfall
Rank 5 yet needs you to have played 24/7 since release, so you've almost for sure the amount played, a casual player plays in a whole year. People like you aren't the targeted playerbase for any game developing company ^^
Rank 5 yet needs you to have played 24/7 since release, so you've almost for sure the amount played, a casual player plays in a whole year. People like you aren't the targeted playerbase for any game developing company ^^
Doesn't a game need a healthy dose of all kinds of players to actually be called "successful"?
Failing this I only see a game servicing a niche crowd but having been developed with a larger crowd in mind. Would you still call such a game "successful"?
Rank 5 yet needs you to have played 24/7 since release, so you've almost for sure the amount played, a casual player plays in a whole year. People like you aren't the targeted playerbase for any game developing company ^^
Doesn't a game need a healthy dose of all kinds of players to actually be called "successful"?
Failing this I only see a game servicing a niche crowd but having been developed with a larger crowd in mind. Would you still call such a game "successful"?
Quotation marks intended.
"Healthy dose"? Thats rather subjective. What games need is a sufficient number of players to be profitable enough to not only remain in operation, but be worth expanding. Types of players are secondary. Some types of players we don't need. Goonies being one in particular that comes to mind. ^^
There are obviously some issues with Rift and I agree on the questing and solo play content beeing very week in the game. Balance is always gonna be issue in any game at start but my main issue at this point is that some souls are simply not fun to play.
What killed the game for me is the placements of mobs. They are crowded all over the place and very often seem to be put there just to piss ppl off. Considering that most mid level zones are ghostlands atm in terms of players - this means those few trying to lvl are swamped with roaming mobs. If you are trying to play a soul that uses pet - you will soon find out that its best to scrap it since the pet pulls more and more adds - making it just horrible to play and defently not fun at all.
I will play to the end of my month. I dont see the point in doing more cause the issues are so blatantly obvious and the game just becomes stale and boring in terms of questing and lvling. My server is dead in terms of high end content since most high end players have quit already so no point even trying to go for expert dungeons.
Trion just got it wrong. Sad to say cause I like some part of the game.
I may be the odd one here but what i am doing is moving 4 up at the same time. Warrior, Healer, Mage and Roque. I go from one hub of quests and finish those and change toons to hit the same area again. It works for me from a crafting standpoint as all 4 supply each other with materials to make items. I lvl up pretty fast as far as crafting goes and i mail items to the other toons to keep the gear up to par for the area's i am in. The plus side of this for me is i do not get burntout playing the same toon and i find the best way to chain the quests to save time. The down side of this is going over the same area 4 times ... But it works for me as i know i will not have to do it again when i am done with that area.
I like the crafting from EQ2/Vanguard only for the amount of things that can be made, not for the idiotic mini games. crafting in EQ2 is the only time i can take a grey pattern and fail at making it because the computer does bad rolls. i have to use a guild buff and special armor/itmes just to make items 75% of the time for blue patterns.
Rift isnt a PvP game, go play GW if you want balanced PvP.
/my 2 copper
It you ever fail crafting in EQ2, its because you don't understand it or haven't played in a very long while. Whatever the computer throws at you, you can counter. I leveled 2 crafters to max don't remember missing an attempt.
I find it amazing that the OP is actually talking about SOLO playing at all... wtf is wrong with people MMO is multiplayer not solo play... mmo are too little team oriented...
I find it amazing that the OP is actually talking about SOLO playing at all... wtf is wrong with people MMO is multiplayer not solo play... mmo are too little team oriented...
I find it amazing that the OP is actually talking about SOLO playing at all... wtf is wrong with people MMO is multiplayer not solo play... mmo are too little team oriented...
As many times as this attitude has been debunked, it still amazes me that grouping addicts still trot this out as if it has any validity. By all means, keep flailing against the tide. Game developers are not going to be able to make people play with you if they don't want to.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
Comments
No mention to Anarchy Online?
Your list covers just about any MMO on the market not just Rift.
this game sounds so boring just by reading the 5 things they have done wrong.
So What Now?
This is the mindset that is so awful, both of those systems are dull, generic, and checklists with a pretty coat of paint, but an MMO player is so easily appeased, try Free Realms, which has by far the best "crafting" I've ever experienced.
Peace and Beaverly Love
actually Star Wars Galaxies had some of the best crafting till SOE fudged it all up
I did not say that there weren't more ideas out there. If you read what you quoted me on, I said that "work." You can not take single player game quests and directly port them to MMO's.
Can you imagine the trouble there would be if you had to kill quest givers. What would everyone else do that was questing? Just wait? What if your in the middle of talking to the person and someone kills her/it? And while this does happen in PvP, you have the opportunity to kill the person killing your npc, while if you are the same side, you do not have that option.
All your ideas about reading quests and books, may seem interesting, but look at your audience. Most mmo players do not even read the paragraph or two of quest text as it stands now. There are lots of detective games out there, but they never hit the success that action games do.
Plant a tree? Seriously..you want to go get a seed, plant it, and come back days later after you have outleveled the quest to water it? Think about progression and how long you spend in one zone. Static items don't work unless its for crafting or cosmetic reasons.
And sure there are games where you do not need quests, but then you do not have a story. Or the story revolves around the players and thats an entirely different type of game, and if thats really what you want you can go play EvE, or Earthrise, or other non-level based games.
So while you can come up with infinite ideas, it doesn't mean that they are good ones. In fact, a vast majority of ideas are just bad, which is why they haven't made it into mainstream MMO's yet. So again to reiterate, I think people are missing the point about why quests feel like the same old thing. It's because there aren't many other ways, if any, that work.
I managed to snag one of those weekend trial codes (you know, the one designed to insure that Rift's servers have enough people online for their big "event") and honestly couldn't progress past the character creation screen. After playing most of the beta events, plus some extended time on the alpha server, I just couldn't muster up much interest to play.
Finally, after clicking through the uninspired character models a couple of times, I shut down the client and went back to working on my Sims house. I just couldn't be arsed to go further with Rift.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift
You've just outlined the state of the genre itself. This game is the perfect example of the mmorpg genre 2.0. Games have been using 2.0 mechanics for a while now. Were you really expecting something incremental? That's not going to happen until publishers are willing to take the chance with a solid design. You're going to see more 2.0 games and more games fail before you see a company taking a chance with a "3.0" (or 2.5) and succeeding.
http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/joeballs
I think this is spot on... And I feel they should develop the pvp side of things more for end-game content. I hope they don't stick mostly to raids because i lead a way to busy life now to where "us casual players" can't spend hours on end doing some raids for thrills in a game. There are only 4 arena style play fields, which seems cool for now, but in a month or two they will get old. Makes me want to give Warhammer another run...
I agree, Rift was great 1-50. At 50 the endgame is just more of the same. Ive already cancelled my sub. Hopefully the next thing out will really capture my attention.
There is only one problem with Rift, its the source of all its problems, its just a clone, it have no inovative thinking whatsoever in the design. Even the Rift aspect is just too shallow, they should have gone further and as deeper they could in that idea, but they didn't for their lost.
Its the source of all his problems, and it was pointed all over the net. But ye it was designed that way, it's a huge mistake and the fact it was choosen that way doesn't help it at all, the mistake is there. People need change now more than ever, it is a fact anyone with a little sense of strategy could understand. Rift is a good game made over bad intentions, how far it will bring them, nobody know, it depend on the concurent games that will be release next 2 years.
you know the one thing i dislike the most about sheeple posting to these forums is this, rift is a clone? Are you kidding me? The second thing is "Rift didn't innovate" sheeple who make this statement have obviously not played many mmo's
Seriously folks it is NOT a clone of any ONE game, it is a combination of many games. DAoC, AoC, Lotro, WoW, AQ2 its got a few elements of each in there and this isn't a problem with the company it's a problem with the genre.
Examples of their innovation for the ignorant include: Dungeons that grow with your toons level, rifts themselves no one has ever done that before, the soul system allowing a player to combine any soul together for a unique character every time no ones done that before, the way the rifts appear Randomly in the world no one has coded random events into an mmo before.
Oh and just because you few have blasted through the leveling content without even glancing at what the quests are saying only to reach the end of game disappointed doesn't mean that's the games fault thats the impatient players fault because i for one never play a game just to get to the end of it i play to enjoy the WHOLE THING. seriously, sheeple who run through things like this never enjoy anything and are always changing games and blaming the devs for it.
>IMO< you left WAR / warhammer out...its alot like war and basicly same type of looking grafic's ..just thought id add that lil tid bit to your comment + yea there are some lil things that that they took and added but they basicly copy / pasted wow's interface and slaped WAR's grafic's onto it ..but thats just >IMO< and everyone talks like rifts are soo dynamic but >IMO< they are just like PQ in WAR ...it will die and get very dull soon..also like a game called WAR
My Rift account currently has 1 day left on it. Im am currently the highest ranking pvp player on my server. About to Achieve rank 6. There are many flaw's to the pvp system that Trion has set up. It has to be one of the most frustrating games to pvp in. With the current changes to warriors they amount to a punching bag in pvp. Pve content is grinding the same few dungeons. Daily for tokens to get gear that basically only improves the mitigation so you can grind higher. If your looking to be entertained for a month this game can do it. But dont expect much more. Stay away from the pvp. If you must play and want high end gaming Mage and Cleric are the only way to go.
My advice Stay away. Looking for Guild Wars 2 in the up comming future.
Speaknspell.
50 Warrior Rank 5
Tearfall
Rank 5 yet needs you to have played 24/7 since release, so you've almost for sure the amount played, a casual player plays in a whole year. People like you aren't the targeted playerbase for any game developing company ^^
Doesn't a game need a healthy dose of all kinds of players to actually be called "successful"?
Failing this I only see a game servicing a niche crowd but having been developed with a larger crowd in mind. Would you still call such a game "successful"?
Quotation marks intended.
"Healthy dose"? Thats rather subjective. What games need is a sufficient number of players to be profitable enough to not only remain in operation, but be worth expanding. Types of players are secondary. Some types of players we don't need. Goonies being one in particular that comes to mind. ^^
There are obviously some issues with Rift and I agree on the questing and solo play content beeing very week in the game. Balance is always gonna be issue in any game at start but my main issue at this point is that some souls are simply not fun to play.
What killed the game for me is the placements of mobs. They are crowded all over the place and very often seem to be put there just to piss ppl off. Considering that most mid level zones are ghostlands atm in terms of players - this means those few trying to lvl are swamped with roaming mobs. If you are trying to play a soul that uses pet - you will soon find out that its best to scrap it since the pet pulls more and more adds - making it just horrible to play and defently not fun at all.
I will play to the end of my month. I dont see the point in doing more cause the issues are so blatantly obvious and the game just becomes stale and boring in terms of questing and lvling. My server is dead in terms of high end content since most high end players have quit already so no point even trying to go for expert dungeons.
Trion just got it wrong. Sad to say cause I like some part of the game.
I may be the odd one here but what i am doing is moving 4 up at the same time. Warrior, Healer, Mage and Roque. I go from one hub of quests and finish those and change toons to hit the same area again. It works for me from a crafting standpoint as all 4 supply each other with materials to make items. I lvl up pretty fast as far as crafting goes and i mail items to the other toons to keep the gear up to par for the area's i am in. The plus side of this for me is i do not get burntout playing the same toon and i find the best way to chain the quests to save time. The down side of this is going over the same area 4 times
... But it works for me as i know i will not have to do it again when i am done with that area.
Spankthetoad
I definitely agree with all the points as well.
It you ever fail crafting in EQ2, its because you don't understand it or haven't played in a very long while. Whatever the computer throws at you, you can counter. I leveled 2 crafters to max don't remember missing an attempt.
I find it amazing that the OP is actually talking about SOLO playing at all... wtf is wrong with people MMO is multiplayer not solo play... mmo are too little team oriented...
+1
As many times as this attitude has been debunked, it still amazes me that grouping addicts still trot this out as if it has any validity. By all means, keep flailing against the tide. Game developers are not going to be able to make people play with you if they don't want to.
"Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
"People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift