Do you believe in a God

Harashar · June 2005

To Kengo677 i dont understand your logic, what proof do you have to say that the Bible was influenced by God. It was written by men as you say the only proof you have that it was influenced by God is that these men said so! Where is the bloody sense in that?

I could say that this post is being influenced by a giant talking apple tree in my garden which created the earth and all its inhabitants, but people believe it because i say so, sound familiar?

Not to mention the fact that the Bible has been altered numerous time over the years, from translation and even truely altered!

The bible is nothing more than a book of contradictions, i'll give one as an example just to make you happy 'There is neither Jew or Greek, free or slave, man or woman, for you are all one in Jesus Christ' and (i think it goes something along the lines as) 'Wives give to your husband....then it says something about God being great, but stating that men have a higher role than women. Hmmm think about it.

How can you just say 'All other religions are wrong' that is just narrow minded you say that Atheists are narrow minded that people who dont believe are like stone walls not allowing anything in, i believe that those like you who wont accept anothers point of view are the narrow minded ones. I pity you.

Aldaron · June 2005

Originally posted by Harashar
To Kengo677 i dont understand your logic, what proof do you have to say that the Bible was influenced by God. It was written by men as you say the only proof you have that it was influenced by God is that these men said so! Where is the bloody sense in that?

I could say that this post is being influenced by a giant talking apple tree in my garden which created the earth and all its inhabitants, but people believe it because i say so, sound familiar?

Well for that matter. Can you trust history, any history, at all?

Not to mention the fact that the Bible has been altered numerous time over the years, from translation and even truely altered!

The bible is nothing more than a book of contradictions, i'll give one as an example just to make you happy 'There is neither Jew or Greek, free or slave, man or woman, for you are all one in Jesus Christ' and (i think it goes something along the lines as) 'Wives give to your husband....then it says something about God being great, but stating that men have a higher role than women. Hmmm think about it.

Just for clarification, Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Now that you have the verses. Please explain how in anyway that is a contradiction.

P.S.

You should probably get the rest of the verses as well, so here.

Ephesians 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

Ephesians 5:28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

Ephesians 5:29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

Ephesians 5:31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

How can you just say 'All other religions are wrong' that is just narrow minded you say that Atheists are narrow minded that people who dont believe are like stone walls not allowing anything in, i believe that those like you who wont accept anothers point of view are the narrow minded ones. I pity you.

It is always wise to search for the truth. But if you have a true belief in something. Then to someones perspective, everything else is wrong.

But only one is right.

khrag · June 2005

Wow this has gone on a Loooooooong time.

Well here's another question for you god and bible fans. If the bible is truly the word of god, are we not to take what he says as law, and not pick and choose which words to obey?

IE:

Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Or the wedding vows, does it not state in the bible: to love honor and OBEY your husband? Yet we have removed that because our society doesn't belive that anymore, so god must not have meant it that much. Or gay priests. If the bible denounces homosexuality, how can you let a gay person be a priest as they are obviously not repentant of their sins?

See, if you truly use your OWN mind, and look into things, instead of beliving what someone else tells you, the bible is the greatest fictional story ever written, and ALL religions, the greatest scam!

Instago · June 2005

It is always wise to search for the truth. But if you have a true belief in something. Then to someones perspective, everything else is wrong.
But only one is right.

Only if you're narrow-minded.

In fact, if it was a baby tree, it wouldn't be that hard to simulate the right enviroment for it to survive.

The tree was at least 200 years old by the time of the supposed biblical food- by no means is this a baby tree.

When I was referring to 'blueprints' of the ark, I am referring to the various theorizations of what the ark would have looked like based on various descriptions in the Bible.

It's the bible, not a 4000 year long screenplay.

So that proves everything you know and love as correct? It is a book- a story- a 4000 year long screenplay.

Don't believe everything you read in books.

See, if you truly use your OWN mind, and look into things, instead of beliving what someone else tells you, the bible is the greatest fictional story ever written, and ALL religions, the greatest scam!

It's funny how one most use one's own mind to explain what is right in front of another.

For the record: I am not only arguing because I have a little feeling that I may be correct (60/70%) but because I want to help others move along- we need to live in the now and not in the then. For anything to be done today we need to stop worrying about an afterlife that may or may not ever come.

Basically, I think the Bible goes along like this (at some point/ basic jist of the story): Lead a good life, and you'll be happy. Lead a bad one, and you'll be sad.

This is based on the person- if you kill everyone in the world and see that as a 'good' life, you'll be happy, but if you help one person and see this as a 'bad' thing, you'll be sad. Yes, I do know those personas are quite strange examples to begin with (I used them to simply show how one could be happy even/ sad even if another thinks the opposite of one's actions), but the most that matters is whether or not you like yourself.

katee · June 2005

Originally posted by kengo677

The Bible were written by men, I agree with that but you guys are forgetting that it was with God's guidance and inspiration that the Bible was written. In the end it was really God who wrote it with man as his instrument.

Isaiah 11:12

And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

I hope it wasn't under God's guidance...I think he would know the world is round!

Boulderdash · June 2005

A quote I came across which is quite relevant here:

Anon: "I've already made up my mind; please don't confuse me with the facts."

GungerFang · June 2005

i guess.....

Boulderdash · June 2005

Originally posted by Aldaron

Originally posted by Axala

Another point I forgot to add. Stop arguing God vs. Evolution as though they were mutually exclusive. We know that evolution exists. We can see the mutations that take place in animals; insects are particularly quick when it comes to evolving and adapting to their environment and so they are a good place to start your study. Doesn't mean that the earth evolved the way the evolutionists think it did. In fact, you can bet money that it did not because one. They don't all agree and so obviously one theory that supports all the evidence doesn't exist, and two, because the theory of how life evolved on this planet has been ever changing ever since it was first put forth and so will likely continue to change for centuries at least.

What has been proven is more or less adaptation. Not extreme mututational "evolution" that most scientists claim.

Eskimo's are a good example. They for the most part can stand the cold alot easier then most other people. You could almost say their bodies have built "muscles" for it. It's adaptation. Like getting buff from working on a farm.

But they are still completely and utterly human, not more different then arnold schwarzenagger was 18 years ago from the majority of other people.

They just "grew muscles" against the cold. They adapted.

So no, no one knows that evolution exists, people theorize that evolution exists. Hence why there is even this argument to begin with.

If you are really interested in the theory of evolution please read the following scientific paper and try to have an open mind, please.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

So a point I like to put forward just to piss both groups off, but also get them thinking. Ever think that maybe evolution is one of the tools that God used to create everything? That maybe just maybe all those gaps in evolution theory are when God had to step in and add a touch of his magic to keep things going the way he wanted? And finally; can't we all just get along?

uhm. Why create clay, and slowly shape the pot over a period of millions of years. When you could just create the pot from the getgo?

Why create the universe in (exactly) 6 days when it could be created from the getgo?

Devil21 · June 2005

Think about this, IF there was a god, how was he created? Was he or she always there? Was there always a universe?

Mabye the belief of aliens isin't as far off as you think. What if they created us or had something to do with the creation of the human race? Now i'm not saying I believe in god or I believe in aliens but if there was one of them or both, then my main question is how it all began.

If a group of children were born and raised in complete lonesome from the rest of the world, sooner or later they would ponder how they got to be there. The spectators being us, would know how they got there, but the children would be clueless. All people ponder about life and death and how it all began and some just live their lives until they die. Many have tried to find out what began at the beginning of life on Earth. Mabye that's how all religions came to be. People wanted more than just living their lives then dying without ever knowing what their purpose was. People always strive for a meaning to life, happiness or hate, through love or just to surive and be concious of the world around you. Mabye thats all religions are for?

Purpose to human life.

Rayze85 · June 2005

Originally posted by Adreal
>
>Do you believe in aliens?
I believe in aliens. We call them angels and demons, and we've wrapped them up in a fairytale because of mankind's past ignorance. I have a friend who is a wiccan and has told me (though I personally don't know whether his account is truth or not) that he has actually spoken with the beings I know as demons and some have asked him to do things he did not approve of and others just talked to him. I learned this when I Emailed him to warn him about the possibility of encountering demons through his wiccan faith. Obviously he had already encountered them. There's also the account of my grandmother who, years ago, encountered one in a wiccan's (I believe) house. It was a smoky form that drifted across the floor in a corner. Maybe it was smoke. I don't know. I was never there. There's also the account of my brother, though he doesn't speak about it, of a green hand tugging on the blankets of his bed at night when he was in it. He wasn't sleeping either from my knowledge. We were sleeping in a bunk bed and he was on the bottom. I remember hearing him calling for my dad and my dad telling him to pray. And my dad's not a real religious man either, but still believes in God.

Saying this as a wiccan in reguards to the aforementined qoute: ANgels and Demons are one thing as are aliens. THey are not fairy tale creatures to cover something up. And yes it is possible to see and speak to these Angels and Demons. DOn't get me wrong here, but not always will it be the Demon asking for evil and the Angel the good. Oh and the smokey form you speeak of may not have been anything more than a conjuration of smoke, I can't really say.

Midnightmoon · June 2005

I grew up as a ministers daughter. My mother was what was considered a Grannywoman. As for the existance of God, I've come to believe that there are things that are unexplained in this world and we may never know the answers to this and many other questions we may have.

One must bear in mind the bible we have today was translated by monks on the order of King James of England. Heaven and Hell are Christian concepts. When Christianity swept across Europe it swallowed up many of the Pagan holidays that are celebrated today by Christians.

To me God is all around us, our universe, our world, the stars, the moon, the sun. It's up to each person to find his or her own path to their concept of God. My husband is an Athiest and I'm pagan, my father is a Baptist minister and my mother was Christian/Pagan. As humans it is our freewill that allows us to choose our own spiritual paths. My grandfather was a wise man and told me when he found out he had cancer that even if there was not a God the basic foundations of the Bible were a good way to live your life. Be kind to everyone, don't judge people, be open-minded.

That's one thing that has bothered me about many Christians I see today, they have their double standards. It's become more about how big the church is as to how can we help those in need in our community.

I do believe in life after death. I believe in the spiritual world. I believe there are demensions beyond what we know and understand.

One of my favorite quotes comes The Simpsons...As Ned Flanders was was being fired from his job as principal for saying the Lord's name the superintendent said, "God has no place within these walls! Just like facts have no place in organized religion."

Instago · June 2005

Well said, midnightmoon .

Marketh126 · June 2005

Originally posted by Midnightmoon

I grew up as a ministers daughter. My mother was what was considered a Grannywoman. As for the existance of God, I've come to believe that there are things that are unexplained in this world and we may never know the answers to this and many other questions we may have.
One must bear in mind the bible we have today was translated by monks on the order of King James of England. Heaven and Hell are Christian concepts. When Christianity swept across Europe it swallowed up many of the Pagan holidays that are celebrated today by Christians.
To me God is all around us, our universe, our world, the stars, the moon, the sun. It's up to each person to find his or her own path to their concept of God. My husband is an Athiest and I'm pagan, my father is a Baptist minister and my mother was Christian/Pagan. As humans it is our freewill that allows us to choose our own spiritual paths. My grandfather was a wise man and told me when he found out he had cancer that even if there was not a God the basic foundations of the Bible were a good way to live your life. Be kind to everyone, don't judge people, be open-minded.
That's one thing that has bothered me about many Christians I see today, they have their double standards. It's become more about how big the church is as to how can we help those in need in our community.
I do believe in life after death. I believe in the spiritual world. I believe there are demensions beyond what we know and understand.
One of my favorite quotes comes The Simpsons...As Ned Flanders was was being fired from his job as principal for saying the Lord's name the superintendent said, "God has no place within these walls! Just like facts have no place in organized religion."

Midnight you are right about most christians...it is sad to see them go to church and be seen has Godly men/women then when they go away from that place they lead a second life of sin...it's very sad too see that happen to see "christians" as "2faced" but the second sad part is, is that they will not inherit the kindom of heaven. The second point that i agreeon is the fact that some christians will judge and sadly a lot on this forum there has been a lot of judging. Jesus doesnt want us christians to judge as it says in james chapter 2 i think.. that if we show favor to some people but to others we make fun or blow off we will be sinning.

The thing i dont agree on is to find his or own personal path to their concept of God. There is only 1 concept of God and its up to people to make that decision (and if you listen to Subseven they sing about that many times) and the fact about the church and the community is true some churchs are aiming toward themselves and not others. Jesus did not come to save the helathy but the sick.

And one of my favorite quotes was made by C.S. Lewis

"the biggest trickery satan did in the 21th century was make us believe that he did not exist"

Aldaron · June 2005

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Originally posted by khrag

Wow this has gone on a Loooooooong time.

Well here's another question for you god and bible fans. If the bible is truly the word of god, are we not to take what he says as law, and not pick and choose which words to obey?

You are quite correct. To just pick and choose would be hypocritical.

IE:

Ephesians 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

Or the wedding vows, does it not state in the bible: to love honor and OBEY your husband? Yet we have removed that because our society doesn't belive that anymore, so god must not have meant it that much.

In the old testament Israel would continually fall away from God, and they'd do things God deemed immoral and wrong, in fact for the most part, even Israel knew that it was wrong. They just didn't care. And needed to be humbled.

Or gay priests. If the bible denounces homosexuality, how can you let a gay person be a priest as they are obviously not repentant of their sins?

Man made fallacy. Considering such acts, both in the new and old testament are said to be worthy of death, you can't in truth have homosexual priests, or for that matter, homosexual Christians. So anyone who deems them a priest, when in actuality, they are suppose to be a representative of God, they're only making a mockery of the church. But then again, for the most part, a lot of people have been doing that for a very long time. (That is, making a mockery of the church)

See, if you truly use your OWN mind, and look into things, instead of beliving what someone else tells you, the bible is the greatest fictional story ever written, and ALL religions, the greatest scam!

Because man disobeys God, breaks his laws, and man contradicts himself, that means the Bible is fiction? Hrm...I don't really understand your logic...

Originally posted by Instago

Only if you're narrow-minded.

It's called truth...There can't be two versions of it.

In fact, if it was a baby tree, it wouldn't be that hard to simulate the right enviroment for it to survive.

The tree was at least 200 years old by the time of the supposed biblical food- by no means is this a baby tree.

WellWhen in fact there is no way to EXACTLY pinpoint the time of Adam & Eve. Thus making the inability to exactly pinpoint the flood.

Oh. And I cant seem to find much information on the internet regarding this tree. I would like to read into it though. You got any URLs?

When I was referring to 'blueprints' of the ark, I am referring to the various theorizations of what the ark would have looked like based on various descriptions in the Bible.

Which you get the gross size of it, not the many different sizes and descriptions of the compartments.

It's the bible, not a 4000 year long screenplay.

So that proves everything you know and love as correct? It is a book- a story- a 4000 year long screenplay.

Maybe you mis-interpreted me. A screenplay is usually something that describes every little tidbit.

ex: Tall burly man walks into an octagonal shaped room with flowered curtains, to the right with the sun beaming strongly in. He looked around at the walls, which were white painted; with the right one having a large hole in it. Right near the curtains was a lamp with a beige shade...

If that still doesn't give you the hint. The bible is a story about important things that happend. It gave the facts about things that mattered. It didn't give you the numbers of tree's surrounding Israel.

Don't believe everything you read in books.

See, if you truly use your OWN mind, and look into things, instead of beliving what someone else tells you, the bible is the greatest fictional story ever written, and ALL religions, the greatest scam!

It's funny how one most use one's own mind to explain what is right in front of another.

For the record: I am not only arguing because I have a little feeling that I may be correct (60/70%) but because I want to help others move along- we need to live in the now and not in the then. For anything to be done today we need to stop worrying about an afterlife that may or may not ever come.

Basically, I think the Bible goes along like this (at some point/ basic jist of the story): Lead a good life, and you'll be happy. Lead a bad one, and you'll be sad.

This is based on the person- if you kill everyone in the world and see that as a 'good' life, you'll be happy, but if you help one person and see this as a 'bad' thing, you'll be sad. Yes, I do know those personas are quite strange examples to begin with (I used them to simply show how one could be happy even/ sad even if another thinks the opposite of one's actions), but the most that matters is whether or not you like yourself.

Originally posted by Boulderdash

Why create the universe in (exactly) 6 days when it could be created from the getgo?

In fact...the universe was created from the getgo.

Aldaron · June 2005

Oops. Double post.

Boulderdash · June 2005

Originally posted by Aldaron

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In fact...the universe was created from the getgo.

Would you like to explain a little more?

Do you mean by "in fact"; a scientific fact or as a figure of speach?

How do you define the universe? Perhaps you define it differently.

What do you mean with the phrase "from the getgo"; instantly?

One sentence can so easily be misinterpreted.

Aldaron · June 2005

Originally posted by Boulderdash

Originally posted by Aldaron

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In fact...the universe was created from the getgo.

Would you like to explain a little more?

Do you mean by "in fact"; a scientific fact or as a figure of speach?

How do you define the universe? Perhaps you define it differently.

What do you mean with the phrase "from the getgo"; instantly?

Well surely you know the 6 days of creation?

That's what i'm talking about.

Unless by universe you mean space, planets, and every living breathing thing.

gunnythok · June 2005

Personally I beleive in god. I don't particularly care if there's an afterlife. I'm actually hoping that there isn't one. And who the hell cares about creation? Were any of us there? No! Asking the question of creation is an attempt to think in infinitum which is not humanly possible. We created the creation myths to give ourselves a quick easy answer. Guess what, there is none. And don't let me catch anybody trying to explain the meaning of life, cause in all practicallity, there is none.

Boulderdash · June 2005

Originally posted by Aldaron

Originally posted by Boulderdash

Originally posted by Aldaron

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

In fact...the universe was created from the getgo.

Would you like to explain a little more?

Do you mean by "in fact"; a scientific fact or as a figure of speach?

How do you define the universe? Perhaps you define it differently.

What do you mean with the phrase "from the getgo"; instantly?

Well surely you know the 6 days of creation?

That's what i'm talking about.

Unless by universe you mean space, planets, and every living breathing thing.

Sorry for not being clear enough. My interpretation of "In fact...the universe was created from the getgo." would be: The universe began its existance with a cataclysmic event and grew into the shape as we currently observe it (with our eyes).

And yes I know of the story of the 6 days of creation. I would like to know why it was 6 days and not 1 day or instantly?

Harashar · June 2005

If God is an all powerful being then why would he need the Seventh day to rest?

I mean having Godly powers and all he could just make it so that fatigue does not exist, he could do what ever he wants and yet he has to rest, doesnt sound all to powerful to me.

Dekron · June 2005

Razorback · June 2005

Not to mention the fact that an omnipotent being would have no need for or concept of time. Then throw in that the Augustine calander wasnt developed till thousands of years after the "alleged event" so there is no definition of a "day" that would have any meaning. But I guess the author of the bible was trying to keep it simple.

Knivey98 · June 2005

I believe in god, just not in a from of anything not that guy with the super long beard and the power to control everything

j-monster · June 2005

Originally posted by Harashar

If God is an all powerful being then why would he need the Seventh day to rest?
I mean having Godly powers and all he could just make it so that fatigue does not exist, he could do what ever he wants and yet he has to rest, doesnt sound all to powerful to me.

wheres my cruicifix? die heathen!

seriously though thats a damn nice question,

mabey he was attending a stag party on the 7th day

who knows

Aldaron · June 2005

Originally posted by Boulderdash

Sorry for not being clear enough. My interpretation of "In fact...the universe was created from the getgo." would be: The universe began its existance with a cataclysmic event and grew into the shape as we currently observe it (with our eyes).
And yes I know of the story of the 6 days of creation. I would like to know why it was 6 days and not 1 day or instantly?

Why did Israel march around the walls of Jericho 7 times and not once? Why did Christ spend 3 days in hell and not 5 minutes?

There are many things that God does for the most part, you have no idea the reason behind it. It may not make sense to many people, but, for the most part, infinite doesn't either.

But I'll be sure to ask God all these questions in a couple thousand years.

Originally posted by Harashar

If God is an all powerful being then why would he need the Seventh day to rest?
I mean having Godly powers and all he could just make it so that fatigue does not exist, he could do what ever he wants and yet he has to rest, doesnt sound all to powerful to me.

Hehe.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.

Genesis 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

I'm not sure how you twisted that into thinking by resting, they meant something akin to catching his breath...

It's really quite simple english.

Originally posted by Razorback
Not to mention the fact that an omnipotent being would have no need for or concept of time. Then throw in that the Augustine calander wasnt developed till thousands of years after the "alleged event" so there is no definition of a "day" that would have any meaning. But I guess the author of the bible was trying to keep it simple.

1. It was created in the physical universe. A plane where time was created, and exists. In the spiritual universe, there is no time. So though you have a point, when you think of it, you make no sense.

2. Read the book of Enoch. It gives quite a keen description of a year, a day, etc. In essence it pretty much gives ordinances of a Lunar Calendar. Why you bring up a calendar created thousands of years after the fact, when it wasn't even close to the first calendar created, is quite beyond me.

P.S. Don't you mean the Julian calendar?

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