I'm 100% sure that I'll play it and about 90% sure that I'll love it, but I have no idea for how long. My favorite games, for some reason, have a tendency to burn me out the fastest; possibly because I condense my play time with them so much that I'm likely to play 67 hours in the first week.
Whatever the case, though, I have my next few years of multiplayer roleplaying on a neat conveyor belt into my gaming equivalent of a digestive tract: EVE: Incarna -> The Old Republic -> Neverwinter -> Guild Wars 2 -> World of Darkness. My only concern is that TOR and Neverwinter will release too near each other, and that by the time I back out of TOR, GW2 will drop, such that I'll simply never get around to Neverwinter.
Favorites: EQ, EVE | Playing: None. Mostly VR and strategy | Anticipating: CU, Pantheon
Eh, this game sounded good at the begining, before they started releasing previews of the content. For me the game looks too much like the poorly created cartoon. This is Star Wars for for a young generation that has no interest in or apreciation for the grand history and vison of the Star Wars brand. What happened to Star Wars? They were a trend setter populated with visionaries. Now they are simply one of many copycats. It is sad realy. Where is the space combat? Where is anything new? Oh hooray, companions that can do stuff for you. Just what I wanted, all the same old stuff but you don't have to do it, you can have your companions do it. I won't be spending my money on this game. Besides being Star Wars, and I will admit that there is some interest on my part for what the story might be, this game just does not look fun to me. If they ever give a free trial so I can try before I buy I will give it a try and see if they can convince me. But to just shell out $50 for a game that might royaly suck? nah, been there, done that, too many times to count. I am tired of it. Tired of feeling screwed and being decieved by games that promise much but deliver nothing at launch but a broken game. Not that this will be like that, it may be, it may not. I will not take the risk.
Nah. They've spent too much money on video, cut scenes, and voice-overs instead of immersive content. If I'm going to drop money for that, I'd rather just rent the movies.
The cut scenes, voice overs is just that.."immersive content"
If you just want to watch your game then perhaps. I prefer to play mine instead.
Cutscenes are vastly overrated.. hopefully there will be the option to skip them.. not sure why cutscenes should be considered immersive though.. as they often force you to complete certain activities in a certain way.. so that they don't look ridiculous... which if anything actually breaks the immersion.. voice overs.. same again.. whatever voice you expected or imagined a particular type of npc/char had/has might well be vastly at odds with the ones they assign to it.. imagine how Han Solo would sound if he had Luke Skywalkers voice... or worse.. Princess Leia's now that might be an extreme example.. but by having voiceovers their forcing you to accept their version.. which might be completely different to how you imagined them to be.. and the more your into RP'ing in games, the more likely this will occur..
Lol this one is good. A new movie is about to be released. You see the poster of it and the main char. Then you imagine how the main char sounds like. You go to movies and OH MY GOD THE MAIN CHAR SOUNDS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN IN MY IMAGINARY WORLD! Hahahaha, "forcing you to accept their version" IT IS THEIR VERSION! It's not a game made by you, make your own games and movies then the voices in your head matches the final product if you find suitable actors >_>'
A new guy moves to your neighbour but does not have the voice you imagined him to have before he opens his mouth, so he breaks your immersion of the real world then!? >_<
Just... Seriously!? Walls of texts sure are more immersive because they cant screw up your imagined voices!
Anyway @Zekiah, this games costs 2-4 times more at least than your average game that costs a couple dozen million, so they have more than enough to pay voice overs and STILL have bigger dev budget than mmorpg X, Y or Z. Ferrari isnt really an expensive car if you are a billionaire.
OP:
Yes I'll buy this one for sure because there's no serious scifi mmorpgs out there besides this where you play as a character. A bit tired of fantasy setting, overdone, and I'm really looking forward for the story and voice overs / overall sound detail, I'm just completely done with games where everyone is mute, it makes me feel very disconnected from the world since most modern games have talking characters. The world does not feel so dead where every NPC is just another quest booth.
With standard mmorpg today I get a level grinder fantasy hack n' slash (tried a dozen of them already) mmorpg with (sometimes) end game. With SWTOR I get a Star Wars (SciFi=unique in mmorpg business) mmorpg + singleplayer and story content worth a couple of standard game purchases on top of that. Yes please.
Here is the disconnect that you are having. For gamers that are used to/prefer games similar to PnP Role-Playing or MUD/Mush gaming thier expectations are very much that it IS THIER vision every bit as much as the Developers, if not more so. In that style of gaming it's the players and thier intereaction with each other and the environment that crafts the story arcs within the game and much of the content.
The experience Bioware is going for is much more Cinematic, where you are largely experiencing the story & content the developers have crafted for you rather then your own. In the former, you are taking a much more active role in using your own imagination and creativity to craft your characters own story.
Nothing wrong with either form of entertainment...but they ARE very different in thier approach and contradictory in what they are trying to deliver to the player.
Personaly I prefer the PnP/MUD approach....so I very much get what the poster is saying. Nothing wrong with that...nothing wrong folks who prefer the Cinematic approach.....maple syrup meet ketchup.
Yes, I will try it. The only reason is that it is made by Bioware and I am a big Bioware fan. I don't think I will stick too long with that game, but I will definetly be there on release date.
Eh, this game sounded good at the begining, before they started releasing previews of the content. For me the game looks too much like the poorly created cartoon. This is Star Wars for for a young generation that has no interest in or apreciation for the grand history and vison of the Star Wars brand. What happened to Star Wars? They were a trend setter populated with visionaries. Now they are simply one of many copycats. It is sad realy. Where is the space combat? Where is anything new? Oh hooray, companions that can do stuff for you. Just what I wanted, all the same old stuff but you don't have to do it, you can have your companions do it. I won't be spending my money on this game. Besides being Star Wars, and I will admit that there is some interest on my part for what the story might be, this game just does not look fun to me. If they ever give a free trial so I can try before I buy I will give it a try and see if they can convince me. But to just shell out $50 for a game that might royaly suck? nah, been there, done that, too many times to count. I am tired of it. Tired of feeling screwed and being decieved by games that promise much but deliver nothing at launch but a broken game. Not that this will be like that, it may be, it may not. I will not take the risk.
Poorly created cartoon? I don't particularly like "Clone Wars" myself, but poorly created is not the reason why. Apparently you have a strikingly different opinion than a huge number of people out there too, because this "poorly created show" is very highly rated and making money hand over fist. That only took me 20 seconds to find thanks to google. Sorry, the rest of your arguement wasn't even worth reading after that comment. You just ruined your own credibility.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I voted undecided, one thing is sure, i will try the game at least. One or 2 month ago it wasn't the case at all.
Now will i play it longer than the few months to try it? really i'm not sure there, i'm shifted to the negative middle. I will try the game to see if i can find a bit of this Bioware that made NWN, i just hope i will find something, NWN was one of my best multiplayer rpg.
[b][quote]But since SWTOR is built the way it is, I plan to play it with a selected group of friends and make use of tools like "teamspeak and Ventrilo" as little as possible to enjoy the voice overs as much as possible...[/b][/quote]
As a single player game, alone?
Didnt I say .."With a selected group of friends" ? Im rather sure I did say that, yes I'm sure
Originally posted by Aeraized Are you actually saying that MMO kill quests have variety to them? I can effectively decide not to kill the NPC that I was tasked to do and alter my gameplay from then on?
Or do you mean to say that, by that cutscene in which I can interact with the NPC, not just skip over his quest text and break the immersion to read the summary of what I have no choice in the manner of doing it differently, I can alter events in my own story and do things differently then I normally would have?
Sure Kill the Captain and Spare the Captain (you'll need to fast forward to the gameplay section where the Bounty Hunter and the Sith Warrior team up in a Flashpoint, also note the video's are from '09).
The end result may be close to the same, but the the path you take to get there is definitely different.
A guildy wrote a great Blog about that speech Gordon Walton made at GDC back '07 and the lessons of making an MMO post World of Warcraft. If I'm going to compare TOR to WoW, I think those are some good aspects that I hope they do take from WoW (to an extent). To me those are things that can make an MMO enjoyable, and they are a good foundation. Mind you, those are foundation to me.
I got to meet some of the Dev team at Pax, and I found we shared a lot of similar experiences, likes and dislikes in past MMO's, so I think they are going in a direction that I will enjoy.
My hands on time with the game was enjoyable, and granted as brief as that time was I would enjoy seeing more, and playing more.
I like that this is a fully fledged MMO, not just an instanced game, not a co-op game experience, but a fully fledged MMO that will cater to a few different playstyles.
While I'm not in love with all the decisions that Bioware made, I appreciate that they seem to have put gameplay as a priority, as well as attention to details that should keep the game going longer.
Finally, I admit, I love the idea of an MMO that isnt fantasy, and that IS Star Wars.
Its a no for me, I never liked WoW, Warhammer or EQ and chances are I wont like this either, its just too .. seen it all before kind of thing. I've no doubt the game will be very well made and very highly polished but I havent seen anything 'new' or different from it so far.
Games like The Secret World are more my cup of tea, something new and different, thats what I want to experience.
Its a no for me, I never liked WoW, Warhammer or EQ and chances are I wont like this either, its just too .. seen it all before kind of thing. I've no doubt the game will be very well made and very highly polished but I havent seen anything 'new' or different from it so far.
Games like The Secret World are more my cup of tea, something new and different, thats what I want to experience.
You're in luck the only thing it's got in comon with WoW, WAR and EQ2 is the questing idea. I highly doubt you've seen it all before, everything voiced with epic well made story, decisions actually affect things and real living companions instead of lifeless pets and the list is quite long. Can't say I've seen that before.
TSW looks promising, but Funcom doesn't have a positive track record tough.
Nah. They've spent too much money on video, cut scenes, and voice-overs instead of immersive content. If I'm going to drop money for that, I'd rather just rent the movies.
I don't think you know what that word means.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Voted a solid yes. I have the son of my best friend as a closed beta tester (he won't tell me a darn thing (young whippersnapper) except that it is a great game and then says it has some problems that they are working on. My impression is that the developement is a very difficult process from a technical point of view so I welcome the Devs keeping it off release untill whatever is wrong is fixed. A race between getting it right (time) and budget - well in the budget area they are backed and supported by Geo Lucas so investors are not a problem. They certainly have more patience than most of we players who are waiting. Yes again!!!
Its a no for me, I never liked WoW, Warhammer or EQ and chances are I wont like this either, its just too .. seen it all before kind of thing. I've no doubt the game will be very well made and very highly polished but I havent seen anything 'new' or different from it so far.
Games like The Secret World are more my cup of tea, something new and different, thats what I want to experience.
You're in luck the only thing it's got in comon with WoW, WAR and EQ2 is the questing idea. I highly doubt you've seen it all before, everything voiced with epic well made story, decisions actually affect things and real living companions instead of lifeless pets and the list is quite long. Can't say I've seen that before.
TSW looks promising, but Funcom doesn't have a positive track record tough.
Better AI and VO are vital for single player games as they are needed to immerse you in a world which has limited depth. In an mmo are they really worth shouting about that much?
In an mmo you are meant to have 'real living companions' in the form of other real living players. The world and the people within it (and the economy and combat system mechanics) that drive it immerse you far more than some intermittent npc VO. So yes, increased pet AI and VO are nice and all, but many could take it or leave it I'd wager.
Pushing impoved companion AI and immersive VO as a cornerstone of an offline game I could understand, but i'll admit I have to question making such a big fuss of them in an game which is meant to be a thriving, mmo game world.
As to it being like (insert generic themepark here) but with more production values and some potentially improving tweaks, well I have to agree with yorkforce on that one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that ofc, it will no doubt be a fantastic game for those that like that kind of mmo.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I voted yes, because i believe SWTOR is going to be a different experience, similar to how dcuo was for me. i may not neccessarily continue playing it, but i will buy it for this fact alone. So i can see the differences, and work out my "perfect game" with all the unique and different features from many others, you can then pick what you prefer, and enjoy the most.
Before I go into this, I want to state that these are my opinions, and anyone who reads this is freely able to disagree or reject them. I've tried to be civil with my arguments, and I would hope those who do wish to post in objection would be also.
I voted no, simply because I feel that BioWare is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. What I mean is that they are taking elements that I feel belong in a SPRPG (Single Player Role Playing Game) and forcing them into a MMORPG, which simply can't work (based on logic, and from a standpoint on the importance of gamer immersion).
While I think everyone would give BioWare kudos for creating some awesome IPs, and the KOTOR series especially, I don’t think what makes them good SPRPGs would merge well into an MMORPG (and yes I see MMOs and MMORPGs as two separate things).
An MMORPG is the traditional variant, which features a classless and open system for character progression and advancement, character interdependencies (grouping and working together), and an open virtual world with a player driven economy and a robust crafting system. An MMO is the modern variant which might not feature that much of a crafting system, heavily dependent on raiding and loot acquisition, and very solo-able.
To get back to the point, the KOTOR series are great SPRPGs, but only a great SPRPG (Single Player Role Playing Game). The reason that the series are such great games is that they follow the standard mechanisms of the genre very well. The player is a hero, something unique, and is on a quest to save the world. Because the player is the hero, they are somehow special. They are given unique skills or powers to aid them in their quest which normal persons do not have. In addition to this, there is a very heavy emphasis on a linear story; it has a beginning, a middle portion, and an ending. MMORPGs have neither a beginning or an end, they are persistent.
Now, based on these principles which make the KOTOR series great SPRPGs, it does not mean they would translate into a great MMORPG. First of all, let’s examine the hero aspect. While within a SPRPG, and within the context of a linear story, a hero who is being controlled by the player makes perfect sense, because they are the only (or the major) hero in the context of the story. Whereas in an MMORPG, there are (or could be) thousands of other players, and if they are each a hero, it removes the uniqueness of them being a hero in the first place. While a single hero can stand out from a crowd because of their uniqueness, a crowd of heroes makes no sense.
Secondly, story. Once again a linear story works well in SPRPGs because they are similar in nature to movies, you as the player are reliving or living by proxy the life and events of someone else, you are experiencing ‘their’ story. The only slight difference being that with a game the player has some small amount of choice in changing the direction of the story as they are not merely passengers in the story. In contrast to MMORPGs, there is no linear story, there can’t be, because by having one, you remove the dynamic nature of an MMORPG, and thus the world is left static and meaningless. The environment of an MMORPG is a like an alternate universe or reality. You are not a passenger in someone else’s story; you are creating your own story. Neither you nor anyone else knows what will happen because you are creating the story on the fly as events unfold. There is no central narrative. There is no driving force pushing you in one direction or another, other than that which you wish to invoke. It seems more interesting to create my own unique story, rather than re-living someone else's (at least in a game).
Because of the elements that make the KOTOR series such a smash success as SPRPGs, also remove any possibility of success for the IP as an MMORPG, because the elements necessary to make each work successfully are in direct opposition to each other.
However as an MMO, TOR could be successful, which is for all intents and purposes a MOSPG (Massively Online Single Player Game) with Co-Operative capabilities. Although TOR will probably be successful as an MMO, it is not an MMORPG in the true sense of what the term means. Very few games that categorize themselves as such, are MMORPGs.
Before I go into this, I want to state that these are my opinions, and anyone who reads this is freely able to disagree or reject them. I've tried to be civil with my arguments, and I would hope those who do wish to post in objection would be also.
I voted no, simply because I feel that BioWare is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. What I mean is that they are taking elements that I feel belong in a SPRPG (Single Player Role Playing Game) and forcing them into a MMO.
An MMORPG is the traditional variant, which features a classless and open system for character progression and advancement, character interdependencies (grouping and working together), and an open virtual world with a player driven economy and a robust crafting system. An MMO is the modern variant which might not feature that much of a crafting system, heavily dependent on raiding and loot acquisition, and very solo-able.
To get back to the point, the KOTOR series are great SPRPGs, but only a great SPRPG (Single Player Role Playing Game). The reason that the series are such great games is that they follow the standard mechanisms of the genre very well. The player is a hero, something unique, and is on a quest to save the world. Because the player is the hero, they are somehow special. They are given unique skills or powers to aid them in their quest which normal persons do not have. In addition to this, there is a very heavy emphasis on a linear story; it has a beginning, a middle portion, and an ending.
Now, based on these principles which make the KOTOR series great SPRPGs, it does not mean they would translate into a great MMORPG. First of all, let’s examine the hero aspect. While within a SPRPG, and within the context of a linear story, a hero who is being controlled by the player makes perfect sense, because they are the only (or the major) hero in the context of the story. Whereas in an MMORPG, there are (or could be) thousands of other players, and if they are each a hero, it removes the uniqueness of them being a hero in the first place. While a single hero can stand out from a crowd because of their uniqueness, a crowd of heroes makes no sense.
However as an MMO, TOR could be successful, which is for all intents and purposes a MOSPG (Massively Online Single Player Game) with Co-Operative capabilities. Although TOR will probably be successful as an MMO, it is not an MMORPG in the true sense of what the term means. Very few games that categorize themselves as such, are MMORPGs.
I disagree, because my viewpoint of what BW is trying to do is different than how you (and some others) see it. I can understand why for some people since they have no experience with what BW is doing, find it a strange beast.
But here's my argument why it's not that strange or unfitting for an MMORPG:
- since WoW, questing has already been the main method of level progression in an MMO
- what BW is doing is a revamp or upgrade of that questing part in MMO's, nothing more than that
- if what BW is doing doesn't belong in an MMORPG, then questing doesn't belong in an MMO, they're as much a solo experience in current MMO's as they are in SWTOR. And just as in other MMO's, you can still group up doing them, even more, there's group interactivity added in the cinematic part of the questing than traditional quests have
- Adding story to questing isn't that unique: WoW CATA has deepened their questing experience, you'll only have to do the Worgen questing to realise that, it's pure story. LotrO has its book quests, and AoC had VO/cutscenes in its Tortage quests. What is new is that BW is adding choices that have consequences to their questing, on top of VO and cutscenes.
- The vast majority of MMO gamers loved those story questing parts in CATA, LotrO and AoC. Nobody thought that those MMO's were any less an MMO for having those quests.
So, all in all I don't see why suddenly adding story immersive questing makes SWTOR an MSORPG, where other MMO's that heavily use questing and story quests aren't MSORPG's as well. Most of your arguments namely would apply to those MMO's as well.
SWTOR will still have all the other features and stuff that you usually see in MMO's, World Quests that aren't related to your class story, dungeons, raids, arena pvp, crafting, exploration, group content, auction house, guilds (even guild capital ships) etc, etc.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Here is the disconnect that you are having. For gamers that are used to/prefer games similar to PnP Role-Playing or MUD/Mush gaming thier expectations are very much that it IS THIER vision every bit as much as the Developers, if not more so. In that style of gaming it's the players and thier intereaction with each other and the environment that crafts the story arcs within the game and much of the content.
The experience Bioware is going for is much more Cinematic, where you are largely experiencing the story & content the developers have crafted for you rather then your own. In the former, you are taking a much more active role in using your own imagination and creativity to craft your characters own story.
Nothing wrong with either form of entertainment...but they ARE very different in thier approach and contradictory in what they are trying to deliver to the player.
Personaly I prefer the PnP/MUD approach....so I very much get what the poster is saying. Nothing wrong with that...nothing wrong folks who prefer the Cinematic approach.....maple syrup meet ketchup.
TOR never tried to be a sandbox, the sandbox talk is done by now, like it or dont like it, take it or pass it.
Also the guy I quoted was actually saying that he does not like voice overs because the voice wont be like the voice he imagines it to be, that's just stupid, that's not even talking about sandboxes that's more like some odd god complex where everything in a world should be just as you want it to be, it does not work in a massive MULTIPLAYER game if everyone of thousands of players gets to decide how everything works, it's just a big mess. The devs are gods there, the game masters who decides what's going on, how NPC-Cindy sounds or if NPC-Mark has a Ferrari, be one if you want to have everything your way.
Anyway about sandboxes, personally I dislike sandboxes because they are not well made. They pretend to give you freedom to do whatever, but in the end your options are limited and there's no story to follow. Everything revolves around you like you described, but in a boring world. I welcome a vast detailed sandbox any day that actually delivers a world that has freedom, and I'm not talking about freedom of movement but options to actually do pretty much anything, I highly doubt we'll see such during the next couple of decades. If you want to play such a game, the PnP choise is a lot better than any computer equivalent because the computer one is missing.
Comments
I'm 100% sure that I'll play it and about 90% sure that I'll love it, but I have no idea for how long. My favorite games, for some reason, have a tendency to burn me out the fastest; possibly because I condense my play time with them so much that I'm likely to play 67 hours in the first week.
Whatever the case, though, I have my next few years of multiplayer roleplaying on a neat conveyor belt into my gaming equivalent of a digestive tract: EVE: Incarna -> The Old Republic -> Neverwinter -> Guild Wars 2 -> World of Darkness. My only concern is that TOR and Neverwinter will release too near each other, and that by the time I back out of TOR, GW2 will drop, such that I'll simply never get around to Neverwinter.
Eh, this game sounded good at the begining, before they started releasing previews of the content. For me the game looks too much like the poorly created cartoon. This is Star Wars for for a young generation that has no interest in or apreciation for the grand history and vison of the Star Wars brand. What happened to Star Wars? They were a trend setter populated with visionaries. Now they are simply one of many copycats. It is sad realy. Where is the space combat? Where is anything new? Oh hooray, companions that can do stuff for you. Just what I wanted, all the same old stuff but you don't have to do it, you can have your companions do it. I won't be spending my money on this game. Besides being Star Wars, and I will admit that there is some interest on my part for what the story might be, this game just does not look fun to me. If they ever give a free trial so I can try before I buy I will give it a try and see if they can convince me. But to just shell out $50 for a game that might royaly suck? nah, been there, done that, too many times to count. I am tired of it. Tired of feeling screwed and being decieved by games that promise much but deliver nothing at launch but a broken game. Not that this will be like that, it may be, it may not. I will not take the risk.
Here is the disconnect that you are having. For gamers that are used to/prefer games similar to PnP Role-Playing or MUD/Mush gaming thier expectations are very much that it IS THIER vision every bit as much as the Developers, if not more so. In that style of gaming it's the players and thier intereaction with each other and the environment that crafts the story arcs within the game and much of the content.
The experience Bioware is going for is much more Cinematic, where you are largely experiencing the story & content the developers have crafted for you rather then your own. In the former, you are taking a much more active role in using your own imagination and creativity to craft your characters own story.
Nothing wrong with either form of entertainment...but they ARE very different in thier approach and contradictory in what they are trying to deliver to the player.
Personaly I prefer the PnP/MUD approach....so I very much get what the poster is saying. Nothing wrong with that...nothing wrong folks who prefer the Cinematic approach.....maple syrup meet ketchup.
Yes, I will try it. The only reason is that it is made by Bioware and I am a big Bioware fan. I don't think I will stick too long with that game, but I will definetly be there on release date.
Poorly created cartoon? I don't particularly like "Clone Wars" myself, but poorly created is not the reason why. Apparently you have a strikingly different opinion than a huge number of people out there too, because this "poorly created show" is very highly rated and making money hand over fist. That only took me 20 seconds to find thanks to google. Sorry, the rest of your arguement wasn't even worth reading after that comment. You just ruined your own credibility.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
I voted undecided, one thing is sure, i will try the game at least. One or 2 month ago it wasn't the case at all.
Now will i play it longer than the few months to try it? really i'm not sure there, i'm shifted to the negative middle. I will try the game to see if i can find a bit of this Bioware that made NWN, i just hope i will find something, NWN was one of my best multiplayer rpg.
Nope. Nothing against the game, just that style of mmo is not my cup of tea.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Didnt I say .."With a selected group of friends" ? Im rather sure I did say that, yes I'm sure
Depends mostly on a couple of official reviews once the game is released. If I like what I read, I will probably try it.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
No day/night and no swimming decided me against playing the game. It's not only because of those two features, but that was the last straw.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Sure Kill the Captain and Spare the Captain (you'll need to fast forward to the gameplay section where the Bounty Hunter and the Sith Warrior team up in a Flashpoint, also note the video's are from '09).
The end result may be close to the same, but the the path you take to get there is definitely different.
I'm a yes.
A guildy wrote a great Blog about that speech Gordon Walton made at GDC back '07 and the lessons of making an MMO post World of Warcraft. If I'm going to compare TOR to WoW, I think those are some good aspects that I hope they do take from WoW (to an extent). To me those are things that can make an MMO enjoyable, and they are a good foundation. Mind you, those are foundation to me.
I got to meet some of the Dev team at Pax, and I found we shared a lot of similar experiences, likes and dislikes in past MMO's, so I think they are going in a direction that I will enjoy.
My hands on time with the game was enjoyable, and granted as brief as that time was I would enjoy seeing more, and playing more.
I like that this is a fully fledged MMO, not just an instanced game, not a co-op game experience, but a fully fledged MMO that will cater to a few different playstyles.
While I'm not in love with all the decisions that Bioware made, I appreciate that they seem to have put gameplay as a priority, as well as attention to details that should keep the game going longer.
Finally, I admit, I love the idea of an MMO that isnt fantasy, and that IS Star Wars.
Its a no for me, I never liked WoW, Warhammer or EQ and chances are I wont like this either, its just too .. seen it all before kind of thing. I've no doubt the game will be very well made and very highly polished but I havent seen anything 'new' or different from it so far.
Games like The Secret World are more my cup of tea, something new and different, thats what I want to experience.
You're in luck the only thing it's got in comon with WoW, WAR and EQ2 is the questing idea. I highly doubt you've seen it all before, everything voiced with epic well made story, decisions actually affect things and real living companions instead of lifeless pets and the list is quite long. Can't say I've seen that before.
TSW looks promising, but Funcom doesn't have a positive track record tough.
Like the 1000 other threads that asked the same question YES I WILL
I don't think you know what that word means.
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
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Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
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Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
Voted a solid yes. I have the son of my best friend as a closed beta tester (he won't tell me a darn thing (young whippersnapper) except that it is a great game and then says it has some problems that they are working on. My impression is that the developement is a very difficult process from a technical point of view so I welcome the Devs keeping it off release untill whatever is wrong is fixed. A race between getting it right (time) and budget - well in the budget area they are backed and supported by Geo Lucas so investors are not a problem. They certainly have more patience than most of we players who are waiting. Yes again!!!
No. Because bounty hunter is the only class that interests me and SWG is the only SW MMO that offers a player bounty system
Better AI and VO are vital for single player games as they are needed to immerse you in a world which has limited depth. In an mmo are they really worth shouting about that much?
In an mmo you are meant to have 'real living companions' in the form of other real living players. The world and the people within it (and the economy and combat system mechanics) that drive it immerse you far more than some intermittent npc VO. So yes, increased pet AI and VO are nice and all, but many could take it or leave it I'd wager.
Pushing impoved companion AI and immersive VO as a cornerstone of an offline game I could understand, but i'll admit I have to question making such a big fuss of them in an game which is meant to be a thriving, mmo game world.
As to it being like (insert generic themepark here) but with more production values and some potentially improving tweaks, well I have to agree with yorkforce on that one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that ofc, it will no doubt be a fantastic game for those that like that kind of mmo.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
I voted yes, because i believe SWTOR is going to be a different experience, similar to how dcuo was for me. i may not neccessarily continue playing it, but i will buy it for this fact alone. So i can see the differences, and work out my "perfect game" with all the unique and different features from many others, you can then pick what you prefer, and enjoy the most.
Before I go into this, I want to state that these are my opinions, and anyone who reads this is freely able to disagree or reject them. I've tried to be civil with my arguments, and I would hope those who do wish to post in objection would be also.
I voted no, simply because I feel that BioWare is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. What I mean is that they are taking elements that I feel belong in a SPRPG (Single Player Role Playing Game) and forcing them into a MMORPG, which simply can't work (based on logic, and from a standpoint on the importance of gamer immersion).
While I think everyone would give BioWare kudos for creating some awesome IPs, and the KOTOR series especially, I don’t think what makes them good SPRPGs would merge well into an MMORPG (and yes I see MMOs and MMORPGs as two separate things).
An MMORPG is the traditional variant, which features a classless and open system for character progression and advancement, character interdependencies (grouping and working together), and an open virtual world with a player driven economy and a robust crafting system. An MMO is the modern variant which might not feature that much of a crafting system, heavily dependent on raiding and loot acquisition, and very solo-able.
To get back to the point, the KOTOR series are great SPRPGs, but only a great SPRPG (Single Player Role Playing Game). The reason that the series are such great games is that they follow the standard mechanisms of the genre very well. The player is a hero, something unique, and is on a quest to save the world. Because the player is the hero, they are somehow special. They are given unique skills or powers to aid them in their quest which normal persons do not have. In addition to this, there is a very heavy emphasis on a linear story; it has a beginning, a middle portion, and an ending. MMORPGs have neither a beginning or an end, they are persistent.
Now, based on these principles which make the KOTOR series great SPRPGs, it does not mean they would translate into a great MMORPG. First of all, let’s examine the hero aspect. While within a SPRPG, and within the context of a linear story, a hero who is being controlled by the player makes perfect sense, because they are the only (or the major) hero in the context of the story. Whereas in an MMORPG, there are (or could be) thousands of other players, and if they are each a hero, it removes the uniqueness of them being a hero in the first place. While a single hero can stand out from a crowd because of their uniqueness, a crowd of heroes makes no sense.
Secondly, story. Once again a linear story works well in SPRPGs because they are similar in nature to movies, you as the player are reliving or living by proxy the life and events of someone else, you are experiencing ‘their’ story. The only slight difference being that with a game the player has some small amount of choice in changing the direction of the story as they are not merely passengers in the story. In contrast to MMORPGs, there is no linear story, there can’t be, because by having one, you remove the dynamic nature of an MMORPG, and thus the world is left static and meaningless. The environment of an MMORPG is a like an alternate universe or reality. You are not a passenger in someone else’s story; you are creating your own story. Neither you nor anyone else knows what will happen because you are creating the story on the fly as events unfold. There is no central narrative. There is no driving force pushing you in one direction or another, other than that which you wish to invoke. It seems more interesting to create my own unique story, rather than re-living someone else's (at least in a game).
Because of the elements that make the KOTOR series such a smash success as SPRPGs, also remove any possibility of success for the IP as an MMORPG, because the elements necessary to make each work successfully are in direct opposition to each other.
However as an MMO, TOR could be successful, which is for all intents and purposes a MOSPG (Massively Online Single Player Game) with Co-Operative capabilities. Although TOR will probably be successful as an MMO, it is not an MMORPG in the true sense of what the term means. Very few games that categorize themselves as such, are MMORPGs.
I disagree, because my viewpoint of what BW is trying to do is different than how you (and some others) see it. I can understand why for some people since they have no experience with what BW is doing, find it a strange beast.
But here's my argument why it's not that strange or unfitting for an MMORPG:
- since WoW, questing has already been the main method of level progression in an MMO
- what BW is doing is a revamp or upgrade of that questing part in MMO's, nothing more than that
- if what BW is doing doesn't belong in an MMORPG, then questing doesn't belong in an MMO, they're as much a solo experience in current MMO's as they are in SWTOR. And just as in other MMO's, you can still group up doing them, even more, there's group interactivity added in the cinematic part of the questing than traditional quests have
- Adding story to questing isn't that unique: WoW CATA has deepened their questing experience, you'll only have to do the Worgen questing to realise that, it's pure story. LotrO has its book quests, and AoC had VO/cutscenes in its Tortage quests. What is new is that BW is adding choices that have consequences to their questing, on top of VO and cutscenes.
- The vast majority of MMO gamers loved those story questing parts in CATA, LotrO and AoC. Nobody thought that those MMO's were any less an MMO for having those quests.
So, all in all I don't see why suddenly adding story immersive questing makes SWTOR an MSORPG, where other MMO's that heavily use questing and story quests aren't MSORPG's as well. Most of your arguments namely would apply to those MMO's as well.
SWTOR will still have all the other features and stuff that you usually see in MMO's, World Quests that aren't related to your class story, dungeons, raids, arena pvp, crafting, exploration, group content, auction house, guilds (even guild capital ships) etc, etc.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Without a shadow of a doubt, the people who made mass effect and Kotor 1 are doing a Star Wars MMO.
Everything i have seen so far has me very excited, just wish they would hurry up and give a release date.
I will try it, and judge for myself.
TOR never tried to be a sandbox, the sandbox talk is done by now, like it or dont like it, take it or pass it.
Also the guy I quoted was actually saying that he does not like voice overs because the voice wont be like the voice he imagines it to be, that's just stupid, that's not even talking about sandboxes that's more like some odd god complex where everything in a world should be just as you want it to be, it does not work in a massive MULTIPLAYER game if everyone of thousands of players gets to decide how everything works, it's just a big mess. The devs are gods there, the game masters who decides what's going on, how NPC-Cindy sounds or if NPC-Mark has a Ferrari, be one if you want to have everything your way.
Anyway about sandboxes, personally I dislike sandboxes because they are not well made. They pretend to give you freedom to do whatever, but in the end your options are limited and there's no story to follow. Everything revolves around you like you described, but in a boring world. I welcome a vast detailed sandbox any day that actually delivers a world that has freedom, and I'm not talking about freedom of movement but options to actually do pretty much anything, I highly doubt we'll see such during the next couple of decades. If you want to play such a game, the PnP choise is a lot better than any computer equivalent because the computer one is missing.