I will definitively admit I come here with a frustrated attitude. With years of watching these forums and watching people troll and hate on games that they don't like, and watching dozens of people every day in the Rift forums bashing a game which really isn't bad. If it's not your cup of tea, then fine. Don't come to the forums bashing a game you either haven't tried or didn't enjoy. The other end of my frustration is with people worshipping GW2 as the second coming. It has become a standard and annoying behavior that the whole community, at least on this site, gets all ramped up and starts bowing to the ground of the next big MMO. Then as soon as it comes out everyone has some reason to be so dramatically disappointed in one way or the other and the game fizzles out in a couple of months. This has been a trend I have been riding and watching ever since Vanguard. I have always watched and read and ignored for the most part. I thought for once "hey I have to read all the other garbage out here that people write, maybe it's my turn." And so from that came, after reading all the thousands of reasons that GW2 will become the new MMO God, the one reason I will not be playing it.
To all of those who posted helpful information I thank you. I am aware of all the forms that "Healing" can take. I also look at those of you who truly don't appreciate good healers with contempt. Your 'all healer are healbots' theory is completely insulting to those of us who have been keeping you alive over the years. And also in my awareness of all the forms healing can take I am disappointed that there will be no specific class, whose entire job lay in keeping others alive. This was my bitter complaint from the beginning. So thank you for 'biting'. It was fun being on the other side for once and venting out my MMO frustration.
Lol, did you guys see that? Did you see it? The OP has obviously just completely changed motives as to why he won't be playing GW2. He now says because of thousands of people saying GW2 will become the new MMO god is the one reason he will not be playing it. Seriously?
I played GW on launch day and loved it! I always loved the PvP and the PvE, only slightly repugnant was the huge percentage of instancing. I still really enjoyed the game. Out of all the Holy Grail reasons I have heard to "love" GW2 there is only one I need to be completely adverse to it. The lack of a healing class. Now I'm quite practical and understand why a game might want to eliminate healing classes. They are usually popular because they are needed and not really a class that people play because they enjoy it.... However, I am one of those people who completely enjoy it, and I know I am very far from being alone. There are many of us who realize how difficult it really is to be a truly great healer, and who get enjoyment out of it. The fact that they decided to completely isolate this group of players is EXACTLY why I will not be playing, no matter how much everyone may worship it.
I'm with you.
I think getting rid of the TANK archtype and spreading those abilities out would've made more sense.
Actually... None of it makes sense. Why take away part of the trinity rather than expand or try and create new ones? Make tanks, dps, ranged dps, dotters, stabbers, bring crowd control back, some more types of healers, spotters, lever pullers, poets, so on and so forth.
Lol, did you guys see that? Did you see it? The OP has obviously just completely changed motives as to why he won't be playing GW2. He now says because of thousands of people saying GW2 will become the new MMO god is the one reason he will not be playing it. Seriously?
Well if you want to go down that road, to be fair they did say they only needed 1 reason not to play :P That doesn't mean they can't have more than one.
I will definitively admit I come here with a frustrated attitude. With years of watching these forums and watching people troll and hate on games that they don't like, and watching dozens of people every day in the Rift forums bashing a game which really isn't bad. If it's not your cup of tea, then fine. Don't come to the forums bashing a game you either haven't tried or didn't enjoy. The other end of my frustration is with people worshipping GW2 as the second coming. It has become a standard and annoying behavior that the whole community, at least on this site, gets all ramped up and starts bowing to the ground of the next big MMO. Then as soon as it comes out everyone has some reason to be so dramatically disappointed in one way or the other and the game fizzles out in a couple of months. This has been a trend I have been riding and watching ever since Vanguard. I have always watched and read and ignored for the most part. I thought for once "hey I have to read all the other garbage out here that people write, maybe it's my turn." And so from that came, after reading all the thousands of reasons that GW2 will become the new MMO God, the one reason I will not be playing it.
To all of those who posted helpful information I thank you. I am aware of all the forms that "Healing" can take. I also look at those of you who truly don't appreciate good healers with contempt. Your 'all healer are healbots' theory is completely insulting to those of us who have been keeping you alive over the years. And also in my awareness of all the forms healing can take I am disappointed that there will be no specific class, whose entire job lay in keeping others alive. This was my bitter complaint from the beginning. So thank you for 'biting'. It was fun being on the other side for once and venting out my MMO frustration.
Lol, did you guys see that? Did you see it? The OP has obviously just completely changed motives as to why he won't be playing GW2. He now says because of thousands of people saying GW2 will become the new MMO god is the one reason he will not be playing it. Seriously?
No that was never a reason I was going to avoid playing it, and that was not what was stated. That was just one of the many reasons I posted about being so annoyed. Still the same base fact as to why I didn't want to play the game is the same.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Lol, did you guys see that? Did you see it? The OP has obviously just completely changed motives as to why he won't be playing GW2. He now says because of thousands of people saying GW2 will become the new MMO god is the one reason he will not be playing it. Seriously?
Well if you want to go down that road, to be fair they did say they only needed 1 reason not to play :P That doesn't mean they can't have more than one.
Lol, yeah. But I just find it highly ironic that he has been here this whole time acting as if the the healing thing was that one reason. And, was even firing shots at one dude for bashing Rift and never really playing it enough, yet you have him here saying just because a bunch of people think this is going to be THE game that is the one reason he will not be playing. Have you played it OP?
I will definitively admit I come here with a frustrated attitude. With years of watching these forums and watching people troll and hate on games that they don't like, and watching dozens of people every day in the Rift forums bashing a game which really isn't bad. If it's not your cup of tea, then fine. Don't come to the forums bashing a game you either haven't tried or didn't enjoy. The other end of my frustration is with people worshipping GW2 as the second coming. It has become a standard and annoying behavior that the whole community, at least on this site, gets all ramped up and starts bowing to the ground of the next big MMO. Then as soon as it comes out everyone has some reason to be so dramatically disappointed in one way or the other and the game fizzles out in a couple of months. This has been a trend I have been riding and watching ever since Vanguard. I have always watched and read and ignored for the most part. I thought for once "hey I have to read all the other garbage out here that people write, maybe it's my turn." And so from that came, after reading all the thousands of reasons that GW2 will become the new MMO God, the one reason I will not be playing it.
To all of those who posted helpful information I thank you. I am aware of all the forms that "Healing" can take. I also look at those of you who truly don't appreciate good healers with contempt. Your 'all healer are healbots' theory is completely insulting to those of us who have been keeping you alive over the years. And also in my awareness of all the forms healing can take I am disappointed that there will be no specific class, whose entire job lay in keeping others alive. This was my bitter complaint from the beginning. So thank you for 'biting'. It was fun being on the other side for once and venting out my MMO frustration.
I hate it when people make me do this. Do you see that one part? "The one reason I will not be playing it." "ONE reason"
Not trying to be a douche, but seriously you come here talking about not wanting to play the game just because you can't heal. However, I just get this vibe that you don't like the game, despite having like the first one. Why? Well you just answered it, you don't like it because of the hype. Well great.. Who cares about the hype? What if it actually lives up to the hype? I promise you those devs down at ArenaNet actually care about their game and have put a lot of love into it. Why care if people hype it up? These aren't your ordinary devs just trying to put in a typical fantasy template to make big bucks. No, they care about their work. Yet because there are a lot of fanboys you say that is the one reason you won't be playing it, making a huge flip flop. Get over it, there are many fanboys for every game. There were many big time fanboys for Rift, yet you're still playing it. I play Rift, yet I still look forward to GW2, but that isn't it I also look forward to games like ArchAge. All of them have their hype. It's bound to happen with any new game. Also, I've done nothing but play healer through the years, but I welcome a new method of "supporting" my group. Because, that's what a healer does. Except now all of my attention will be on the battlefield, and not just monitoring green bars while keeping up with my positioning.
I will definitively admit I come here with a frustrated attitude. With years of watching these forums and watching people troll and hate on games that they don't like, and watching dozens of people every day in the Rift forums bashing a game which really isn't bad. If it's not your cup of tea, then fine. Don't come to the forums bashing a game you either haven't tried or didn't enjoy. The other end of my frustration is with people worshipping GW2 as the second coming. It has become a standard and annoying behavior that the whole community, at least on this site, gets all ramped up and starts bowing to the ground of the next big MMO. Then as soon as it comes out everyone has some reason to be so dramatically disappointed in one way or the other and the game fizzles out in a couple of months. This has been a trend I have been riding and watching ever since Vanguard. I have always watched and read and ignored for the most part. I thought for once "hey I have to read all the other garbage out here that people write, maybe it's my turn." And so from that came, after reading all the thousands of reasons that GW2 will become the new MMO God, the one reason I will not be playing it.
To all of those who posted helpful information I thank you. I am aware of all the forms that "Healing" can take. I also look at those of you who truly don't appreciate good healers with contempt. Your 'all healer are healbots' theory is completely insulting to those of us who have been keeping you alive over the years. And also in my awareness of all the forms healing can take I am disappointed that there will be no specific class, whose entire job lay in keeping others alive. This was my bitter complaint from the beginning. So thank you for 'biting'. It was fun being on the other side for once and venting out my MMO frustration.
I hate it when people make me do this. Do you see that one part? "The one reason I will not be playing it." "ONE reason"
Not trying to be a douche, but seriously you come here talking about not wanting to play the game just because you can't heal. However, I just get this vibe that you don't like the game, despite having like the first one. Why? Well you just answered it, you don't like it because of the hype. Well great.. Who cares about the hype? What if it actually lives up to the hype? I promise you those devs down at ArenaNet actually care about their game and have put a lot of love into it. Why care if people hype it up? These aren't your ordinary devs just trying to put in a typical fantasy template to make big bucks. No, they care about their work. Yet because there are a lot of fanboys you say that is the one reason you won't be playing it, making a huge flip flop. Get over it, there are many fanboys for every game. There were many big time fanboys for Rift, yet you're still playing it. I play Rift, yet I still look forward to GW2, but that isn't it I also look forward to games like ArchAge. All of them have their hype. It's bound to happen with any new game. Also, I've done nothing but play healer through the years, but I welcome a new method of "supporting" my group. Because, that's what a healer does. Except now all of my attention will be on the battlefield, and not just monitoring green bars while keeping up with my positioning.
And so from those posts came the reason. The reason being no healer class.... Which I read after gathering information from the posts and the official sites. The numerous adoration posts about a game that isn't released yet is just a factor of annoyance to my point. But you do have one point. I did greatly enjoy the first one, and really was excited to hear about the second one. But once I saw that they eliminated the pure healing class, though I may be in the minority as many have stated, I felt quite alienated and was completely put off. I was more put off after everyone continued to worship the game further without playing it and my jealousy of not being able to participate in the excitement of the game adds into my bucket of bitterness. So yes I'm annoyed by all the game worship without trial, but the underlined reason I most likely will not play, is the same.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I will definitively admit I come here with a frustrated attitude. With years of watching these forums and watching people troll and hate on games that they don't like, and watching dozens of people every day in the Rift forums bashing a game which really isn't bad. If it's not your cup of tea, then fine. Don't come to the forums bashing a game you either haven't tried or didn't enjoy. The other end of my frustration is with people worshipping GW2 as the second coming. It has become a standard and annoying behavior that the whole community, at least on this site, gets all ramped up and starts bowing to the ground of the next big MMO. Then as soon as it comes out everyone has some reason to be so dramatically disappointed in one way or the other and the game fizzles out in a couple of months. This has been a trend I have been riding and watching ever since Vanguard. I have always watched and read and ignored for the most part. I thought for once "hey I have to read all the other garbage out here that people write, maybe it's my turn." And so from that came, after reading all the thousands of reasons that GW2 will become the new MMO God, the one reason I will not be playing it.
To all of those who posted helpful information I thank you. I am aware of all the forms that "Healing" can take. I also look at those of you who truly don't appreciate good healers with contempt. Your 'all healer are healbots' theory is completely insulting to those of us who have been keeping you alive over the years. And also in my awareness of all the forms healing can take I am disappointed that there will be no specific class, whose entire job lay in keeping others alive. This was my bitter complaint from the beginning. So thank you for 'biting'. It was fun being on the other side for once and venting out my MMO frustration.
I hate it when people make me do this. Do you see that one part? "The one reason I will not be playing it." "ONE reason"
Not trying to be a douche, but seriously you come here talking about not wanting to play the game just because you can't heal. However, I just get this vibe that you don't like the game, despite having like the first one. Why? Well you just answered it, you don't like it because of the hype. Well great.. Who cares about the hype? What if it actually lives up to the hype? I promise you those devs down at ArenaNet actually care about their game and have put a lot of love into it. Why care if people hype it up? These aren't your ordinary devs just trying to put in a typical fantasy template to make big bucks. No, they care about their work. Yet because there are a lot of fanboys you say that is the one reason you won't be playing it, making a huge flip flop. Get over it, there are many fanboys for every game. There were many big time fanboys for Rift, yet you're still playing it. I play Rift, yet I still look forward to GW2, but that isn't it I also look forward to games like ArchAge. All of them have their hype. It's bound to happen with any new game. Also, I've done nothing but play healer through the years, but I welcome a new method of "supporting" my group. Because, that's what a healer does. Except now all of my attention will be on the battlefield, and not just monitoring green bars while keeping up with my positioning.
And so from those posts came the reason. The reason being no healer class.... Which I read after gathering information from the posts and the official sites. The numerous adoration posts about a game that isn't released yet is just a factor of annoyance to my point. But you do have one point. I did greatly enjoy the first one, and really was excited to hear about the second one. But once I saw that they eliminated the pure healing class, though I may be in the minority as many have stated, I felt quite alienated and was completely put off. I was more put off after everyone continued to worship the game further without playing it and my jealousy of not being able to participate in the excitement of the game adds into my bucket of bitterness. So yes I'm annoyed by all the game worship without trial, but the underlined reason I most likely will not play, is the same.
I don't get it though. I have been a pure healer in almost every MMO I have played, and yet we still have our place in GW2. We can take those skills of preserving our group, and apply them to the support roles of GW2. It is trying to make a new way of tactical combat and I see it shaping out well. Tbh, you might be a minority of a minority. Because, most pure healer's that I know welcome the thought of fights without pure heals. It makes positioning so much more important, and now that you won't have to focus on raid bars so much, you can focus more on the battlefield. Which will be much more rewarding if it pans out.
The time saved from not having to look for a healer is a big bonus, but at the same time I don't see why things couldn't be the way they are going to be and still have a dedicated healer class for those who do enjoy it, there would be no harm in that at all.
But instead they excluded a rather small population of players that enjoy full-on healing classes, it does seem unfair.
I myself enjoy playing that roll from time to time, given very rarely, but it offers a nice change of pace and gives a game a really different feel if you find yourself feeling the grind from all they other classes that are basically DPS based. Kind of sucks not to have that option, but them's the cards they're dealing lol.
Someone linked to something similar to this before, but something like this build pretty much is a full healer/support class. You've got 18 total abilities counting both weapon sets and the 3 virtues. The last two 2h sword abilities are unknown, but it's possible they will be defensive because the first 3 are. That would be 16 out of 18 abilities that are defensive and/or healing, and one of the ones that isn't (the first 1h sword ability) is basically autoattack.
To get any more "dedicated healer" than that, you'd really need to have targetted healing, and there would be harm in that. The game doesn't have any, so if one profession could do that, it would be enormous. That class would become a must have class. It would also take away from the positional teamwork nature of the game, and you'd need to see other people's health bars, which means having to stare at them.
Right now, other players have to take care of themselves because they know other players can only support them so much with regeneration and protection boons. If a healer can protect you as a tank, your combat is going to be more static. Other players will be less inclined to play a control game themselves and focus on dps. I think it's easy to see how this would cause a shift back towards a holy trinity paradigm.
The less healing power there is, the less tanking power there is, the more fluid the combat has to be, the more chaotic it has to be, and hopefully the more fun it will be.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I dont know why i have feeling that i saw debate like this thousands of time already on mmorpg.com. People should do more research about how will game mechanics work before they go with "oh no, there are no dedicated healer, i wont play this game" attitude. Its ridiculous if anyone at all mention for 10.000th time that every class will have some damage prevention build, but in different approach than standard, modern day "whack-a-mole" healing in MMORPGs. If someone really enjoys it, there are hundreds of MMORPGs with dedicated "whack-a-mole" healers already out (though i fail to understand how is that fun to somebody, at all).
This topic is getting pretty old now. Seriously.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
The time saved from not having to look for a healer is a big bonus, but at the same time I don't see why things couldn't be the way they are going to be and still have a dedicated healer class for those who do enjoy it, there would be no harm in that at all.
But instead they excluded a rather small population of players that enjoy full-on healing classes, it does seem unfair.
I myself enjoy playing that roll from time to time, given very rarely, but it offers a nice change of pace and gives a game a really different feel if you find yourself feeling the grind from all they other classes that are basically DPS based. Kind of sucks not to have that option, but them's the cards they're dealing lol.
Someone linked to something similar to this before, but something like this build pretty much is a full healer/support class. You've got 18 total abilities counting both weapon sets and the 3 virtues. The last two 2h sword abilities are unknown, but it's possible they will be defensive because the first 3 are. That would be 16 out of 18 abilities that are defensive and/or healing, and one of the ones that isn't (the first 1h sword ability) is basically autoattack.
To get any more "dedicated healer" than that, you'd really need to have targetted healing, and there would be harm in that. The game doesn't have any, so if one profession could do that, it would be enormous. That class would become a must have class. It would also take away from the positional teamwork nature of the game, and you'd need to see other people's health bars, which means having to stare at them.
Right now, other players have to take care of themselves because they know other players can only support them so much with regeneration and protection boons. If a healer can protect you as a tank, your combat is going to be more static. Other players will be less inclined to play a control game themselves and focus on dps. I think it's easy to see how this would cause a shift back towards a holy trinity paradigm.
The less healing power there is, the less tanking power there is, the more fluid the combat has to be, the more chaotic it has to be, and hopefully the more fun it will be.
1- By reading the Thread title I just thought "another person complainning about the non-existing healers" ... Go figures, I was right. Geezus!
2- How the heck did this thread reached 14 pages in 1 day?
3 (Most Important) - Try the Build creater, will you! You can heal others, but most of the times indirectly, you have to do something more with and it won't exist as a main role! I think that players that play as healers never really liked other classes not only because other classes didn't directly help others but the healers were ALWAYS WANTED and the most of other classes wouldn't. Healers always had people who need them and probably never get the claim that "your class isn't needed for this team"! That made them like that role even more, because they were wanted. And now that GW2 takes the necessity of having them in a team (since they don't exist), they are afraid that without their favourite role (with what they were so good at ... but seriously, who wasn't good playing a healer? ) they won't be a good player in this game and their usual job of helping others doesn't exist.
Well, since you are in a battlefield (which finally has some realism, I mean, Where in the real world would a person aggro all his attackers while others would kill them slowly? -.-" ) where you might be attacked, you have to be carefull with your surroundings and have to survive by yourself by doing damage, beeing only a healer would get you killed over and over again, and there wouldn't be anyone watching your health because you can't directly heal peoples life.
You can help others, you can heal others, BUT YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING MORE TO SURVIVE! That is why you need a weapon right?! No one is going to babysit you, and you won't be babysitting no-one. You support more if you want to, by healing if thats what you are looking for, but you won't have enough skills to do that and be untouchable, and you won't be almost immortal like the GW1 monk once was. In this game, if you chose to that and ignore your damage/control/other-support skills, it's your doom.
4- If you don't like it, Okay. You have other hundreds, if not thousands, of games with healers for you.
I played GW on launch day and loved it! I always loved the PvP and the PvE, only slightly repugnant was the huge percentage of instancing. I still really enjoyed the game. Out of all the Holy Grail reasons I have heard to "love" GW2 there is only one I need to be completely adverse to it. The lack of a healing class. Now I'm quite practical and understand why a game might want to eliminate healing classes. They are usually popular because they are needed and not really a class that people play because they enjoy it.... However, I am one of those people who completely enjoy it, and I know I am very far from being alone. There are many of us who realize how difficult it really is to be a truly great healer, and who get enjoyment out of it. The fact that they decided to completely isolate this group of players is EXACTLY why I will not be playing, no matter how much everyone may worship it.
I'm with you.
I think getting rid of the TANK archtype and spreading those abilities out would've made more sense.
Actually... None of it makes sense. Why take away part of the trinity rather than expand or try and create new ones? Make tanks, dps, ranged dps, dotters, stabbers, bring crowd control back, some more types of healers, spotters, lever pullers, poets, so on and so forth.
hahahaa as if we don't ,make enough alts for different classes already. Lever pullers as in characters that needs to be there to ......pull levers? hmmmmm not a great idea I think.
Second, Guild Wars 2 IS bring CC back in MMO, with the lack of archtypical Tank, CC becomes nessceary to control mobs and bosses (pretty sure this was in the combat post on guildwars2 official site) The main flaw in your arguement is that, ranged dps, dotters, stabbers, CC, spotters, lever pullers, poets, will have to be design to be somewhat a deviation of the definiton of Tank, DPS, Healer. Because problem will always lay with the grouping issue, Right now we have an abundant call of "LF HEALER", We certainly don't need anymore "LF SPOTTERS, HEALERS, LEVER PULLERS" This idea simply will make the grouping process excuriating.
The solution that Guild Wars 2, and to a lesser extend, Rift present is the simplest way to do it, let people take on multiple roles in one class. Rift's way of doing things was too obvious, they are simply making people taking on multiple callings, so they are 'change on the fly', making people complain about not being unique, how other classes are doing their job as well.
Guild Wars 2 approached this solution in a different way, they might say they are 'breaking the trinity', but in fact, to my liking, they are simply splitting the roles into smaller portions and let people work together. No healers? if you look deep enough, healers are just becoming support characters, you will require ,for example, a ranger and an elementalist to fill the role of healing and support (I don't want to classify healers as only heal bots because in most games, they don't just stand there and heal, they cast protections and damage mitigations as well, be grateful guys) Tanking, you will need two character using CC and heavier armor to constantly confusing the mob instead, and dps is still very much dps.
So that said, think of GW2 as not destroying the role of healers, but instead making everyone a back up healer, where no one person can single handedly keeping a whole group alive (unless you are really good I guess), same as not one person can tank on a boss by himself.Remember all those hybrid builds that doesn't work in class? Well GW2 is simply bringing that into fashion. You want to simply heal people? Well you still can, just don't expect to be as efficient all by yourself in a group than having a few backup healers in your group.
In the end, I don't want to seem like I'm arguing with OP's idea of healer's importance ingame, I know their importance, trust me I do, fact is I love healers, healer class has always been my second choice, and the idea of being able to do that as my first class is exciting. All I ask OP is simply to have faith, you don't have to play the game if you don't want to, but please do try the game when it goes into open beta, it doesn't kill you, simply just requiring you take a leap of faith.
ps: this also answers people who think they can solo the whole game, ANet specifically said that they want to build a community, to simply think they will let you play the WHOLE game by yourself, is just plain stupid.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW? As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I played GW on launch day and loved it! I always loved the PvP and the PvE, only slightly repugnant was the huge percentage of instancing. I still really enjoyed the game. Out of all the Holy Grail reasons I have heard to "love" GW2 there is only one I need to be completely adverse to it. The lack of a healing class. Now I'm quite practical and understand why a game might want to eliminate healing classes. They are usually popular because they are needed and not really a class that people play because they enjoy it.... However, I am one of those people who completely enjoy it, and I know I am very far from being alone. There are many of us who realize how difficult it really is to be a truly great healer, and who get enjoyment out of it. The fact that they decided to completely isolate this group of players is EXACTLY why I will not be playing, no matter how much everyone may worship it.
I'm with you.
I think getting rid of the TANK archtype and spreading those abilities out would've made more sense.
Actually... None of it makes sense. Why take away part of the trinity rather than expand or try and create new ones? Make tanks, dps, ranged dps, dotters, stabbers, bring crowd control back, some more types of healers, spotters, lever pullers, poets, so on and so forth.
hahahaa as if we don't ,make enough alts for different classes already. Lever pullers as in characters that needs to be there to ......pull levers? hmmmmm not a great idea I think.
Second, Guild Wars 2 IS bring CC back in MMO, with the lack of archtypical Tank, CC becomes nessceary to control mobs and bosses (pretty sure this was in the combat post on guildwars2 official site) The main flaw in your arguement is that, ranged dps, dotters, stabbers, CC, spotters, lever pullers, poets, will have to be design to be somewhat a deviation of the definiton of Tank, DPS, Healer. Because problem will always lay with the grouping issue, Right now we have an abundant call of "LF HEALER", We certainly don't need anymore "LF SPOTTERS, HEALERS, LEVER PULLERS" This idea simply will make the grouping process excuriating.
The solution that Guild Wars 2, and to a lesser extend, Rift present is the simplest way to do it, let people take on multiple roles in one class. Rift's way of doing things was too obvious, they are simply making people taking on multiple callings, so they are 'change on the fly', making people complain about not being unique, how other classes are doing their job as well.
Guild Wars 2 approached this solution in a different way, they might say they are 'breaking the trinity', but in fact, to my liking, they are simply splitting the roles into smaller portions and let people work together. No healers? if you look deep enough, healers are just becoming support characters, you will require ,for example, a ranger and an elementalist to fill the role of healing and support (I don't want to classify healers as only heal bots because in most games, they don't just stand there and heal, they cast protections and damage mitigations as well, be grateful guys) Tanking, you will need two character using CC and heavier armor to constantly confusing the mob instead, and dps is still very much dps.
So that said, think of GW2 as not destroying the role of healers, but instead making everyone a back up healer, where no one person can single handedly keeping a whole group alive (unless you are really good I guess), same as not one person can tank on a boss by himself.Remember all those hybrid builds that doesn't work in class? Well GW2 is simply bringing that into fashion. You want to simply heal people? Well you still can, just don't expect to be as efficient all by yourself in a group than having a few backup healers in your group.
In the end, I don't want to seem like I'm arguing with OP's idea of healer's importance ingame, I know their importance, trust me I do, fact is I love healers, healer class has always been my second choice, and the idea of being able to do that as my first class is exciting. All I ask OP is simply to have faith, you don't have to play the game if you don't want to, but please do try the game when it goes into open beta, it doesn't kill you, simply just requiring you take a leap of faith.
ps: this also answers people who think they can solo the whole game, ANet specifically said that they want to build a community, to simply think they will let you play the WHOLE game by yourself, is just plain stupid.
This.
Guild Wars 2 isn't JUST removing the Healer class
It's removing the Holy Trinity
Everyone can control mobs(tank) everyone can do damage(dps) and everyone can heal(healer)
The point is that you have to focus on several things rather than just ONE role. The idea being is that this will make combat more diverse.
Comments
Lol, did you guys see that? Did you see it? The OP has obviously just completely changed motives as to why he won't be playing GW2. He now says because of thousands of people saying GW2 will become the new MMO god is the one reason he will not be playing it. Seriously?
I'm with you.
I think getting rid of the TANK archtype and spreading those abilities out would've made more sense.
Actually... None of it makes sense. Why take away part of the trinity rather than expand or try and create new ones? Make tanks, dps, ranged dps, dotters, stabbers, bring crowd control back, some more types of healers, spotters, lever pullers, poets, so on and so forth.
Well if you want to go down that road, to be fair they did say they only needed 1 reason not to play :P That doesn't mean they can't have more than one.
No that was never a reason I was going to avoid playing it, and that was not what was stated. That was just one of the many reasons I posted about being so annoyed. Still the same base fact as to why I didn't want to play the game is the same.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Lol, yeah. But I just find it highly ironic that he has been here this whole time acting as if the the healing thing was that one reason. And, was even firing shots at one dude for bashing Rift and never really playing it enough, yet you have him here saying just because a bunch of people think this is going to be THE game that is the one reason he will not be playing. Have you played it OP?
I hate it when people make me do this. Do you see that one part? "The one reason I will not be playing it." "ONE reason"
Not trying to be a douche, but seriously you come here talking about not wanting to play the game just because you can't heal. However, I just get this vibe that you don't like the game, despite having like the first one. Why? Well you just answered it, you don't like it because of the hype. Well great.. Who cares about the hype? What if it actually lives up to the hype? I promise you those devs down at ArenaNet actually care about their game and have put a lot of love into it. Why care if people hype it up? These aren't your ordinary devs just trying to put in a typical fantasy template to make big bucks. No, they care about their work. Yet because there are a lot of fanboys you say that is the one reason you won't be playing it, making a huge flip flop. Get over it, there are many fanboys for every game. There were many big time fanboys for Rift, yet you're still playing it. I play Rift, yet I still look forward to GW2, but that isn't it I also look forward to games like ArchAge. All of them have their hype. It's bound to happen with any new game. Also, I've done nothing but play healer through the years, but I welcome a new method of "supporting" my group. Because, that's what a healer does. Except now all of my attention will be on the battlefield, and not just monitoring green bars while keeping up with my positioning.
And so from those posts came the reason. The reason being no healer class.... Which I read after gathering information from the posts and the official sites. The numerous adoration posts about a game that isn't released yet is just a factor of annoyance to my point. But you do have one point. I did greatly enjoy the first one, and really was excited to hear about the second one. But once I saw that they eliminated the pure healing class, though I may be in the minority as many have stated, I felt quite alienated and was completely put off. I was more put off after everyone continued to worship the game further without playing it and my jealousy of not being able to participate in the excitement of the game adds into my bucket of bitterness. So yes I'm annoyed by all the game worship without trial, but the underlined reason I most likely will not play, is the same.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
I don't get it though. I have been a pure healer in almost every MMO I have played, and yet we still have our place in GW2. We can take those skills of preserving our group, and apply them to the support roles of GW2. It is trying to make a new way of tactical combat and I see it shaping out well. Tbh, you might be a minority of a minority. Because, most pure healer's that I know welcome the thought of fights without pure heals. It makes positioning so much more important, and now that you won't have to focus on raid bars so much, you can focus more on the battlefield. Which will be much more rewarding if it pans out.
As far as I'm concerned, you could be a dedicated healer class in GW2 if you wanted. http://gw2.luna-atra.fr/skills_tool/?lang=en&code=32f81552a6f1282b630b3;3214e9436c8be72a767e814eb&switch=34e0445
Someone linked to something similar to this before, but something like this build pretty much is a full healer/support class. You've got 18 total abilities counting both weapon sets and the 3 virtues. The last two 2h sword abilities are unknown, but it's possible they will be defensive because the first 3 are. That would be 16 out of 18 abilities that are defensive and/or healing, and one of the ones that isn't (the first 1h sword ability) is basically autoattack.
To get any more "dedicated healer" than that, you'd really need to have targetted healing, and there would be harm in that. The game doesn't have any, so if one profession could do that, it would be enormous. That class would become a must have class. It would also take away from the positional teamwork nature of the game, and you'd need to see other people's health bars, which means having to stare at them.
Right now, other players have to take care of themselves because they know other players can only support them so much with regeneration and protection boons. If a healer can protect you as a tank, your combat is going to be more static. Other players will be less inclined to play a control game themselves and focus on dps. I think it's easy to see how this would cause a shift back towards a holy trinity paradigm.
The less healing power there is, the less tanking power there is, the more fluid the combat has to be, the more chaotic it has to be, and hopefully the more fun it will be.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
^This
guardian is the closest thing to dedicated healer. dreamer enjoy
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I dont know why i have feeling that i saw debate like this thousands of time already on mmorpg.com. People should do more research about how will game mechanics work before they go with "oh no, there are no dedicated healer, i wont play this game" attitude. Its ridiculous if anyone at all mention for 10.000th time that every class will have some damage prevention build, but in different approach than standard, modern day "whack-a-mole" healing in MMORPGs. If someone really enjoys it, there are hundreds of MMORPGs with dedicated "whack-a-mole" healers already out (though i fail to understand how is that fun to somebody, at all).
This topic is getting pretty old now. Seriously.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
That looks like a healer class to me.
My theme song.
I still plan to heal. A lot.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
1- By reading the Thread title I just thought "another person complainning about the non-existing healers" ... Go figures, I was right. Geezus!
2- How the heck did this thread reached 14 pages in 1 day?
3 (Most Important) - Try the Build creater, will you! You can heal others, but most of the times indirectly, you have to do something more with and it won't exist as a main role! I think that players that play as healers never really liked other classes not only because other classes didn't directly help others but the healers were ALWAYS WANTED and the most of other classes wouldn't. Healers always had people who need them and probably never get the claim that "your class isn't needed for this team"! That made them like that role even more, because they were wanted. And now that GW2 takes the necessity of having them in a team (since they don't exist), they are afraid that without their favourite role (with what they were so good at ... but seriously, who wasn't good playing a healer?
) they won't be a good player in this game and their usual job of helping others doesn't exist.
Well, since you are in a battlefield (which finally has some realism, I mean, Where in the real world would a person aggro all his attackers while others would kill them slowly? -.-" ) where you might be attacked, you have to be carefull with your surroundings and have to survive by yourself by doing damage, beeing only a healer would get you killed over and over again, and there wouldn't be anyone watching your health because you can't directly heal peoples life.
You can help others, you can heal others, BUT YOU NEED TO DO SOMETHING MORE TO SURVIVE! That is why you need a weapon right?! No one is going to babysit you, and you won't be babysitting no-one. You support more if you want to, by healing if thats what you are looking for, but you won't have enough skills to do that and be untouchable, and you won't be almost immortal like the GW1 monk once was. In this game, if you chose to that and ignore your damage/control/other-support skills, it's your doom.
4- If you don't like it, Okay. You have other hundreds, if not thousands, of games with healers for you.
hahahaa as if we don't ,make enough alts for different classes already. Lever pullers as in characters that needs to be there to ......pull levers? hmmmmm not a great idea I think.
Second, Guild Wars 2 IS bring CC back in MMO, with the lack of archtypical Tank, CC becomes nessceary to control mobs and bosses (pretty sure this was in the combat post on guildwars2 official site) The main flaw in your arguement is that, ranged dps, dotters, stabbers, CC, spotters, lever pullers, poets, will have to be design to be somewhat a deviation of the definiton of Tank, DPS, Healer. Because problem will always lay with the grouping issue, Right now we have an abundant call of "LF HEALER", We certainly don't need anymore "LF SPOTTERS, HEALERS, LEVER PULLERS" This idea simply will make the grouping process excuriating.
The solution that Guild Wars 2, and to a lesser extend, Rift present is the simplest way to do it, let people take on multiple roles in one class. Rift's way of doing things was too obvious, they are simply making people taking on multiple callings, so they are 'change on the fly', making people complain about not being unique, how other classes are doing their job as well.
Guild Wars 2 approached this solution in a different way, they might say they are 'breaking the trinity', but in fact, to my liking, they are simply splitting the roles into smaller portions and let people work together. No healers? if you look deep enough, healers are just becoming support characters, you will require ,for example, a ranger and an elementalist to fill the role of healing and support (I don't want to classify healers as only heal bots because in most games, they don't just stand there and heal, they cast protections and damage mitigations as well, be grateful guys) Tanking, you will need two character using CC and heavier armor to constantly confusing the mob instead, and dps is still very much dps.
So that said, think of GW2 as not destroying the role of healers, but instead making everyone a back up healer, where no one person can single handedly keeping a whole group alive (unless you are really good I guess), same as not one person can tank on a boss by himself. Remember all those hybrid builds that doesn't work in class? Well GW2 is simply bringing that into fashion. You want to simply heal people? Well you still can, just don't expect to be as efficient all by yourself in a group than having a few backup healers in your group.
In the end, I don't want to seem like I'm arguing with OP's idea of healer's importance ingame, I know their importance, trust me I do, fact is I love healers, healer class has always been my second choice, and the idea of being able to do that as my first class is exciting. All I ask OP is simply to have faith, you don't have to play the game if you don't want to, but please do try the game when it goes into open beta, it doesn't kill you, simply just requiring you take a leap of faith.
ps: this also answers people who think they can solo the whole game, ANet specifically said that they want to build a community, to simply think they will let you play the WHOLE game by yourself, is just plain stupid.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
This.
Guild Wars 2 isn't JUST removing the Healer class
It's removing the Holy Trinity
Everyone can control mobs(tank) everyone can do damage(dps) and everyone can heal(healer)
The point is that you have to focus on several things rather than just ONE role. The idea being is that this will make combat more diverse.