Your reasoning has been used time and again by myriad people. "If only they made the game more the way I think it should be, I wouldn't have to cheat", and "the game forces you to cheat because of poor decisions the developers made" are two of the most common excuses given by cheaters to justify their behavior; painting themselves as "the victim" of some kind of unfair treatment... as though they were forced into participating in it in the first place.
It's a paper-thin, self-serving argument that carries no weight, what-so-ever.
Just like in every other case, your perspective in that regard is wrong. Plain and simple.
"Not liking the rules" in a video game is never an "okay" reason to cheat or otherwise break them. Ever.
Your characterization of rules as "merely guidelines" is also a crock, however much you might try to spin. When a developer says a given activity is prohibited in their game, and people are being banned or suspended when caught doing it... that's a *rule*. People aren't banned for not following "guidelines".
If you don't agree with the rules in a videogame, you find it "doesn't suit your personal desires as a gamer" and there's no way you could bring yourself to enjoy the game despite them.. then the proper course of action is to stop playing the game and move on to something that does better suit your sensibilities so you don't feel compelled to cheat.
That's it. End of discussion.
Your perspective is not original, it's not clever, it's not profound and it's not compelling, no matter how much you may believe it is. Your entire post is nothing but a string of lame excuses to excuse yourself for doing something you know is prohibited... just as the article points out.
Pointing out that people might cheat, steal or otherwise do "wrong things" does not justify the behavior either. As the saying goes, "you don't justify bad behavior by pointing to other bad behavior".
Again, if you are playing a game that is at odds with what you prefer, then do the honest thing, and find another game that is more in line with your preferences. At least then you can enjoy the game, and won't even have to make excuses for it.
Zero tolerance to protect your product should be the way forward with issues sent to support if you feel you have been banned unfairly and if you are going to ban players/bots, at least do it in style: How botters get banned in Guild Wars
i'd like to see an MMO go one step farther..puplic executions of the player's character/s...
seriously would be pretty cool, there is an Anime called .hack// its about an MMO and i only saw a few episodes of it.one of the eps i saw, they had caught some one botting/hacking and they held a puplic execution of the players character in the main square of the main city.while i'm sure after the first couple of times it wouldn't be as big of a deal, it would put a face on the cheaters and show players that they are actively deleting the accounts of cheaters.
how many times have you seen botters and hackers in game for months, then just stop seeing them? did they FINALLY get that satisfying ban they deserved? or did they just get bored and quit? all games SAY they're handling the problem and taking out the trash but how many actually are? as i said something like this would really show customers they don't put up with that crap and action will be taken and would be alot of fun for everyone that put up with them hell leave the bigger offenders there a few days so we can throw some rotten fruit at them,before they get the "axe".
I'd be ok with that. But, as you said, they'd have to change it up now and then to keep it fresh. Let them be stoned by other players. Let players throw rotten veggies at their hanging corpses. They could also add better blacklists in games.
Something that has always bothered me is the cheat report. You give the name, you give the location. No one gets to it until way after the fact. You always get the "we can't share any info on what we did or did not do to the player". Why not? I can see not giving out their personal details, but what's wrong with their character name? Or, when you suggest that they get someone to randomly audit battlegrounds/warfronts/arenas where the exploit is being used, you get "we don't have the resources to do that". Honestly, they don't have to watch them all. All it takes is the possibility of someone watching by having heard about them taking action to preven those on the fence about using it. Fear is a powerful tool. In most stores, less than half of those reflective globes in the ceiling acutally have cameras behind them. But, it's the possibility that it could be there that adds that little reminder that can keep people on the straight and narrow. By saying they can't do it, they empower those people on the fence about it to give it a shot.
A guy picked a fight with me one day. I knocked him out. He woke up and grabbed a brick. I ran away laughing. A guy picked a fight with me one day. I hit him once and he took a knee. His two friends decided to jump in. I ran away laughing. A cheater was griefing me one day. I disconnected and had sex. I WIN!!!
Sites should stop people from posting exploits...force them to the front and force the developer to address it. Instead sites tried to hide exploits like they do not happen. Force a game to either clean up or risk being a joke and everyone leaving. Most games have a "stick your head in the sand" mentality and will not fix the issues.
So I give you a friendly smile and wave at you and say: whatever you say, mateys. There aren't actual rules but more... guidlines. The bottom line is: EVERY set of rules favors some people and puts others at a disadvantage. There ARE no fair rules, because the very idea of rules is: all people are similar. Which, we know, they are not. Some people are nimble and fast, some are not; some have good planning capabilities, others don't. Abilities of people are VASTLY different. Hence the Kantian idea that rules must apply the same to every person is... absurd. Rules per se are always unfair. So rules are only a matter of perspective. You support them only if you benefit from them.
If other people forge rules that set me at a disadvantage, people must help themselves.
Let's say it in that way: if games were fair and if the "lawful" pathway in a game was well done, people WOULD not cheat. That people cheat is in 90% of the cases a sign that something fundamental in the game was made against the natural feeling of people. People would NOT BUY gold, if the ingame mechanics were fitting their natural playstyle. But it doesn't. It is so, because not all people are alike. Not all people feel the same. Not all have the same abilities. And hence all the same rules for all means injustice for some. If attaining gold was interesting enough, people WOULD not buy gold. So it is a sign of the flawed games more than anything else.
Everyone cheats. Every. Single. One. If a) you have the chance and b) you think you can get away with it.
How many of you have no single piece of music that did not technically legally come to your harddisc? How many can claim to have zero software that didn't get there despite some... rules? How many of you have never peeked into the neighbours book at a school test?
We are all cheaters once and then. I have just grown beyond the pretending phase. You know... all my life I was on the side of the lawful and the good. I played by the rules, I was as nice to everyone as I can... and someday I realized. People don't give a SHIT. NO ONE thanks you for being nice and goody good. NOBODY. People just use you if you are good and play by the book. And I just got sick and tired to be everybody's fool. There, that's the truth. I was good and I got NOTHING. I got a kick in the arse for being a goody lawful. So having more than half of my life done, I decided I want a piece of the cake. And to hell with nicety. I am just DONE with being nice and ending up having NOTHING. THere. THAT is the bitter truth about life. That is how life REALLY is. If you don't care that you get a part of the cake... nobody else will. Trust me. I tried. THe nice way just will end you as a fool who has nothing. I must know.
But in the immortal words of Colonel Jessep, I think most people can't handle the truth.
Remarkable statement. I agree that you are correct in that all people are not the same. Therefore I hope you understand that I am not the same as you. And I am glad that I am not. There is an underlying bitterness bordering on hatred in your poat. Real life seems to have been - difficult - for you and I am sorry that is so. I hope things get better and you will have less stress in your life, real and game. Good luck and best wishes. And thats the truth.
I think there is a huge difference between cheating and exploiting. Cheating to me implies that you used some type of special coding that goes around how the game was programmed to be played. Like bots, whether they be claiming bot tools, xp bots, farm bots, whatever that's cheating to me.
On the other hand exploits are a little different. To me exploits are something someone found to play the game thats easier. I remember one exploit in L2 way way back where you could fire your arrows through a fence and mobs couldn't attack you. That wasn't maliciously made like a bot, originally someone just happend to pass by and figure this out and then shared with some friends before it was fixed. I think there is a huge difference between the two.
yeh there was an exploit in Tabula Rasa early on that after getting killed you could use the /stuck command at the respawn point to instantly return to the spot where you died. I'll admit that I was using it as was everyone in my clan. it was just too useful. of course it was one of the first things they fixed, even before fixing the numerous other bugs which plagued the game
Are you suggesting that because everyone in your clan was using it, that makes it ok for you to use it?
not suggesting anything but feel free to read into it anything u like Wayne
It just sounded like you were trying to justify it rather than completely owning that you were cheating. It's a way of discounting what you are doing as a bad thing because everyone is doing it.
sure it may sound that way if u take that one part out of context. I don't need jsutification for anything I do. know why? because I capable of policing my own behavior, not that it comes up too often, I don't google for exploits or anything like that but if I happen across something that I feel is an unfair advantage, I wont do it. not that I feel any overwhelming responsibility to the community but because when me & my team take down that legendary boss I want to be able to say that I didn't need to cheat to do it. just me & my skill ( & the team of course). now the expoit in TR, that ws harmless, we know if would be fixed & it ws handy. I didn't get any gold from it, it didn't give a leg up in PvP, no lingering implications for the game's population. it jsut cut down on travel time. I'm sure you'll tell me you wouldn't have used it
I think its funny that the more people try and label others as cheaters or denounce cheating the more the likelihood they are trying to cover thier own arse, its called denial people. All human beings are flawed, you may not be able to admit or justify it to others but you have to realize we all have the capacity for dishonesty even the small tiny white harmless kinds, and in the dark corners of some mmo right now someone who does not consider himself a exploiter is exploiting right now either knowingly or unknowingly
I think there is a huge difference between cheating and exploiting. Cheating to me implies that you used some type of special coding that goes around how the game was programmed to be played. Like bots, whether they be claiming bot tools, xp bots, farm bots, whatever that's cheating to me.
On the other hand exploits are a little different. To me exploits are something someone found to play the game thats easier. I remember one exploit in L2 way way back where you could fire your arrows through a fence and mobs couldn't attack you. That wasn't maliciously made like a bot, originally someone just happend to pass by and figure this out and then shared with some friends before it was fixed. I think there is a huge difference between the two.
yeh there was an exploit in Tabula Rasa early on that after getting killed you could use the /stuck command at the respawn point to instantly return to the spot where you died. I'll admit that I was using it as was everyone in my clan. it was just too useful. of course it was one of the first things they fixed, even before fixing the numerous other bugs which plagued the game
Are you suggesting that because everyone in your clan was using it, that makes it ok for you to use it?
not suggesting anything but feel free to read into it anything u like Wayne
It just sounded like you were trying to justify it rather than completely owning that you were cheating. It's a way of discounting what you are doing as a bad thing because everyone is doing it.
sure it may sound that way if u take that one part out of context. I don't need jsutification for anything I do. know why? because I capable of policing my own behavior, not that it comes up too often, I don't google for exploits or anything like that but if I happen across something that I feel is an unfair advantage, I wont do it. not that I feel any overwhelming responsibility to the community but because when me & my team take down that legendary boss I want to be able to say that I didn't need to cheat to do it. just me & my skill ( & the team of course). now the expoit in TR, that ws harmless, we know if would be fixed & it ws handy. I didn't get any gold from it, it didn't give a leg up in PvP, no lingering implications for the game's population. it jsut cut down on travel time. I'm sure you'll tell me you wouldn't have used it
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I think its funny that the more people try and label others as cheaters or denounce cheating the more the likelihood they are trying to cover thier own arse, its called denial people. All human beings are flawed, you may not be able to admit or justify it to others but you have to realize we all have the capacity for dishonesty even the small tiny white harmless kinds, and in the dark corners of some mmo right now someone who does not consider himself a exploiter is exploiting right now either knowingly or unknowingly
Incorrect. If you read most of the statements people have made about not cheating, you would also read their reasons. The majority of people know right from wrong and realize that it impacts more than just the one using the cheat. You'd read just how hollow of a victory cheating is. Maybe they already knew that from the start or maybe they learned it first hand from cheating once. Either way, they know the difference. It's easy to see who is fake and who is real even in text when they go to the extent to explain that people have in this forum.
If you want to cheat, do it in a single player game. You can cheat yourself and your bank account all you want there. Enjoy your easy and hollow victory there. The rest of us are trying to get our money's worth out of a game we pay/paid for and trying to overcome the challenges afforded by that payment.
Didn't anyone see this in the article? "I generally don’t cheat in games......." Generally? Really? What does that mean anyway? You either do or you don't. Which is it? It makes the entire article take on a totally different spin to me. Which way you ask? To me, anyone who cheats, even "generally", has NO CREDIBILITY.
Didn't anyone see this in the article? "I generally don’t cheat in games......." Generally? Really? What does that mean anyway? You either do or you don't. Which is it? It makes the entire article take on a totally different spin to me. Which way you ask? To me, anyone who cheats, even "generally", has NO CREDIBILITY.
I noticed this too... I was thinking "huh?".
The big question though is 'what is cheating?'.
In my opinion cheating is something that violates the rules of the game world... which means exploits are technically not cheating since exploits are within the game dynamics. hacking however IS cheating becasue it is deliberately altering the game rules. Some hackers say that hacking is exploiting, but I think most people would agree there is a very clear difference.
Didn't anyone see this in the article? "I generally don’t cheat in games......." Generally? Really? What does that mean anyway? You either do or you don't. Which is it? It makes the entire article take on a totally different spin to me. Which way you ask? To me, anyone who cheats, even "generally", has NO CREDIBILITY.
I noticed this too... I was thinking "huh?".
The big question though is 'what is cheating?'.
In my opinion cheating is something that violates the rules of the game world... which means exploits are technically not cheating since exploits are within the game dynamics. hacking however IS cheating becasue it is deliberately altering the game rules. Some hackers say that hacking is exploiting, but I think most people would agree there is a very clear difference.
I understand your take on the issue. The author of the article kind of shows, more or less, no reasoning because she states something so blantly questionable. If she doesn't KNOW, that is one thing. If she THINKS she cheats sometimes, that is another. But if she thinks cheating has shades of grey then she is totally out of touch.
Interesting to note, APB Reloaded beta finally brough onboard Punkbuster and suddenly several things happened.
1) Number of overall players playing dropped.
2) Complaints of Rampant cheating have decreased significantly.
And yes I hate cheats also.
I wouldn't get my hopes up so easy. Battlefield2 used punkbuster. That game was plagued by aimbots and other cheats. When I described horrible 3rd party anti cheat in previous posts, punkbuster was the one that did the most to reinforce that conclusion.
@ Paroxysm, i think your rose colored glasses arw foggy and you have more faith in human nature then you should, it's a bit naive to take people by thier word alone, and it would be a double standard to take the face value of a argument that agrees with your point of view and not entertain a possibility what so ever for the opposite to be happening. Are you so blind as to believe all cheaters start out wanting to cheat? The truth is those people you call cheaters were just like you at one time, saying the exact same things against cheating being said now, only they probably found something in game one day that changed them and how they play. A person cannot simply dismiss the realities of human nature from with a mmo where social and identities flux or break down by saying they are not a cheater, anymore then i can say i am a pvp.god.
A debate is based on facts, and where there is a lack of fact then your simply just blowing smoke, anyone here could be a.cheater regardless of what they say, and we all have the capacity to say otherwise is being in self denial
@ Paroxysm, i think your rose colored glasses arw foggy and you have more faith in human nature then you should, it's a bit naive to take people by thier word alone, and it would be a double standard to take the face value of a argument that agrees with your point of view and not entertain a possibility what so ever for the opposite to be happening. Are you so blind as to believe all cheaters start out wanting to cheat? The truth is those people you call cheaters were just like you at one time, saying the exact same things against cheating being said now, only they probably found something in game one day that changed them and how they play. A person cannot simply dismiss the realities of human nature from with a mmo where social and identities flux or break down by saying they are not a cheater, anymore then i can say i am a pvp.god.
A debate is based on facts, and where there is a lack of fact then your simply just blowing smoke, anyone here could be a.cheater regardless of what they say, and we all have the capacity to say otherwise is being in self denial
Really? Cheaters started out like people such as myself or others who never are inclined to cheat and, no matter what the circumstances, never will in the entire time we play a game? Something about the game "makes them do it"? Sounds like an apologist rationalization, painting the cheaters as victims of the games they voluntarily play... "They start out as honest people, but the game makes them become cheaters! Those poor, poor honest people being led astray!".
How does that account for people who sign up for the beta of a game - one which they've never played before - with the sole intention of finding every exploit and cheat they can before the game goes live, so they can have an advantage over other players from day one of retail?
Were they "honest people" like myself and others, but somehow the game "made them" change into a cheater.... before they ever played it?
I have known people who cheat in everything they do... from school work, to games, to anything they can possibly find a way to cheat on. Are they somehow "honest people who sound just like me and wouldn't ever cheat" also? What happened to them, I wonder, to make them decide to cheat on everything, if they do indeed fit your generalization that "those people you call cheaters were just like you at one time"?
Sorry... The actual truth is, some people are just cheating assholes who do it for no other reason than because they can, or believe that if it helps them win, then "the end justifies the means".
The games don't "make them do it".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
@ Paroxysm, i think your rose colored glasses arw foggy and you have more faith in human nature then you should, it's a bit naive to take people by thier word alone, and it would be a double standard to take the face value of a argument that agrees with your point of view and not entertain a possibility what so ever for the opposite to be happening. Are you so blind as to believe all cheaters start out wanting to cheat? The truth is those people you call cheaters were just like you at one time, saying the exact same things against cheating being said now, only they probably found something in game one day that changed them and how they play. A person cannot simply dismiss the realities of human nature from with a mmo where social and identities flux or break down by saying they are not a cheater, anymore then i can say i am a pvp.god.
A debate is based on facts, and where there is a lack of fact then your simply just blowing smoke, anyone here could be a.cheater regardless of what they say, and we all have the capacity to say otherwise is being in self denial
Actually, the opposite. My view on humanity is a very negative one. While I can agree that a lot of people lie, I have to believe that most of the people posting here about the negatives of cheating have valid reasons for being against it. That shows that they have experienced it from one view or the other.
I'm no angel. I have cheated in a game. I saw someone cheating and talked to them about it. I learned the cheat and abused it. Know what? It was boring. It was pointless. By not having to play the game I cheated myself out of most of it. I LEARNED. Now, I am completely anti-cheat. The reason most people keep cheating is because they think they have some hand in the cheat's performance. They believe they are somehow doing part of it. They lie to themself for many reasons. For some it's because they can't compete. For others it's because they are too pompous to ever be seen as making a mistake or losing a fight. But, as I've said 100000000 times, it's hollow. It's a lie. You are not playing. You are not winning. The cheat is. A lot of people can not handle that truth because they've falsely built up this persona/ego of themselves that they can not live up to. Call it a character flaw. Call it what you like. Too many people avoid challenge in all areas of life. They get everything handed to them and then cry when they have to do something for themself. Our society sucks as a whole. But, guess what. None of that is an excuse or the actual fact of the matter. Cheating is cheating yourself and everyone you interact with. Nothing you gain from it is real. There was no challenge you overcame. There was no fight you won. There was no glory. There was only your lack of trying, lack of skill, and complete hollow self.
@ Paroxysm, i think your rose colored glasses arw foggy and you have more faith in human nature then you should, it's a bit naive to take people by thier word alone, and it would be a double standard to take the face value of a argument that agrees with your point of view and not entertain a possibility what so ever for the opposite to be happening. Are you so blind as to believe all cheaters start out wanting to cheat? The truth is those people you call cheaters were just like you at one time, saying the exact same things against cheating being said now, only they probably found something in game one day that changed them and how they play. A person cannot simply dismiss the realities of human nature from with a mmo where social and identities flux or break down by saying they are not a cheater, anymore then i can say i am a pvp.god.
A debate is based on facts, and where there is a lack of fact then your simply just blowing smoke, anyone here could be a.cheater regardless of what they say, and we all have the capacity to say otherwise is being in self denial
Really? Cheaters started out like people such as myself or others who never are inclined to cheat and, no matter what the circumstances, never will in the entire time we play a game? Something about the game "makes them do it"? Sounds like an apologist rationalization, painting the cheaters as victims of the games they voluntarily play... "They start out as honest people, but the game makes them become cheaters! Those poor, poor honest people being led astray!".
How does that account for people who sign up for the beta of a game - one which they've never played before - with the sole intention of finding every exploit and cheat they can before the game goes live, so they can have an advantage over other players from day one of retail?
Were they "honest people" like myself and others, but somehow the game "made them" change into a cheater.... before they ever played it?
I have known people who cheat in everything they do... from school work, to games, to anything they can possibly find a way to cheat on. Are they somehow "honest people who sound just like me and wouldn't ever cheat" also? What happened to them, I wonder, to make them decide to cheat on everything, if they do indeed fit your generalization that "those people you call cheaters were just like you at one time"?
Sorry... The actual truth is, some people are just cheating assholes who do it for no other reason than because they can, or believe that if it helps them win, then "the end justifies the means".
The games don't "make them do it".
Indeed. No one downloaded or used that cheat for them. They are only a victim of their own lazy actions.
Oh I know... It's the old "but but everyone else was cheating so I did too". Welcome to being a sheep. Remember when your mom or dad said "if everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you do it too?". Lemming.
I was implying that anyone could become a cheater and cross that line because the truth is people read into things and make assumptions about a vast cornucopia of subject matter concerning online gaming, just as this article has proven, WMike assumed i was trying to justify why people do it when in fact it has nothing to do with why, but more so with who and when. It's. Easy to sit here and say, cheat? Me? Hell no! I'm. Playing devils advocate because there are innumerable factors to a mmo, and no one person would ever truly know what one person in a sea of thousands is doing or thinking, that would be presumptuous and overly judgemental to the point of being trollish. There is a great deal of grey area I know nothing about, and I'm sure very few others do too, to me cheaters are like pop up ads, you either figure out how to play with out being affected by them or you just get used to them being there
I was implying that anyone could become a cheater and cross that line because the truth is people read into things and make assumptions about a vast cornucopia of subject matter concerning online gaming, just as this article has proven, WMike assumed i was trying to justify why people do it when in fact it has nothing to do with why, but more so with who and when. It's. Easy to sit here and say, cheat? Me? Hell no! I'm. Playing devils advocate because there are innumerable factors to a mmo, and no one person would ever truly know what one person in a sea of thousands is doing or thinking, that would be presumptuous and overly judgemental to the point of being trollish. There is a great deal of grey area I know nothing about, and I'm sure very few others do too, to me cheaters are like pop up ads, you either figure out how to play with out being affected by them or you just get used to them being there
There is no real gray area in what we are discussing. We are not talking about mistakenly killing a boss encounter because of an unintended game mechanic. We are talking about people who find that and repeatedly use it. We are talking about people who knowingly cheat and lie to themself and others. You either cheat or you do not. Honestly, you sound like someone trying to excuse cheaters as some victim of society. This isn't someone stealing food to avoid starving. And, it's still stealing. Have you ever been that hungry? I have been. Looking at the change in your pocket and wondering if that last bit of change should be spent on some chips to stop you stomach from growling and hurting or you should save it to make an emergency pay phone call if needed. I could have stolen. I had easy access because of the job I had. I did not.
Also, you can't just avoid cheaters in every game. Take a FPS for example. The only way to avoid them is to change servers. That only works as long as they aren't on every server when it becomes rampant like it often does. They are ruining the game play of other for selfish reasons. If you think you can just ignore all cheaters, I'm afraid you are the one that is naive. In your ending statement, change cheater to any criminal action and see if that changes your opinion.
Betas, all betas used to be more formal and closed, there were very few public betas when i was coming up, now they have prelaunch beta, public beta, beta for your pet dog, beta because its a monday, you name it. I don't know why people cheat, and i honestly don't care, but with todays accessibility to online games in development i believe the testing standards and control over the testing grps and testing metrics have given rise to shoddier games and more cheating, as game companies figure they can address those issues at a later date
Betas, all betas used to be more formal and closed, there were very few public betas when i was coming up, now they have prelaunch beta, public beta, beta for your pet dog, beta because its a monday, you name it. I don't know why people cheat, and i honestly don't care, but with todays accessibility to online games in development i believe the testing standards and control over the testing grps and testing metrics have given rise to shoddier games and more cheating, as game companies figure they can address those issues at a later date
And now it's the fault of the game company that people cheat. While a lot make it too easy, are too easy on those caught, and take security and cheating too lightly, they did not hand you the cheat or ask you to use it. The bottom line is, the person chose to cheat. There is no one to blame but themselves
[edit] I'm tired of saying the same things while people try to just push responsibility on something or someone else. I'm done with this discussion.[/edit]
There are always grey areas, whether it be irl or game makes no difference. If you see everything in black and white then i that would mean you are inflexible in your playstyle, how do you ever manage to deal with the chaos and fluidity of a online game? Well i hope we never meet in pvp then, for your sake more then mine lol
It ultimately is thier fault as they rush production schedules, half arse betas, bad testing grp, poor control, bad coding, and security measures, who do you think is at fault, santa claus? I think your a mad gamer, and you just want to blame someone for something, jeez man its a game, not life
Comments
Well said.
I'd be ok with that. But, as you said, they'd have to change it up now and then to keep it fresh. Let them be stoned by other players. Let players throw rotten veggies at their hanging corpses. They could also add better blacklists in games.
Something that has always bothered me is the cheat report. You give the name, you give the location. No one gets to it until way after the fact. You always get the "we can't share any info on what we did or did not do to the player". Why not? I can see not giving out their personal details, but what's wrong with their character name? Or, when you suggest that they get someone to randomly audit battlegrounds/warfronts/arenas where the exploit is being used, you get "we don't have the resources to do that". Honestly, they don't have to watch them all. All it takes is the possibility of someone watching by having heard about them taking action to preven those on the fence about using it. Fear is a powerful tool. In most stores, less than half of those reflective globes in the ceiling acutally have cameras behind them. But, it's the possibility that it could be there that adds that little reminder that can keep people on the straight and narrow. By saying they can't do it, they empower those people on the fence about it to give it a shot.
A guy picked a fight with me one day. I knocked him out. He woke up and grabbed a brick. I ran away laughing. A guy picked a fight with me one day. I hit him once and he took a knee. His two friends decided to jump in. I ran away laughing. A cheater was griefing me one day. I disconnected and had sex. I WIN!!!
Sites should stop people from posting exploits...force them to the front and force the developer to address it. Instead sites tried to hide exploits like they do not happen. Force a game to either clean up or risk being a joke and everyone leaving. Most games have a "stick your head in the sand" mentality and will not fix the issues.
Sorry sites should not stop people from posting exploits
sure it may sound that way if u take that one part out of context. I don't need jsutification for anything I do. know why? because I capable of policing my own behavior, not that it comes up too often, I don't google for exploits or anything like that but if I happen across something that I feel is an unfair advantage, I wont do it. not that I feel any overwhelming responsibility to the community but because when me & my team take down that legendary boss I want to be able to say that I didn't need to cheat to do it. just me & my skill ( & the team of course). now the expoit in TR, that ws harmless, we know if would be fixed & it ws handy. I didn't get any gold from it, it didn't give a leg up in PvP, no lingering implications for the game's population. it jsut cut down on travel time. I'm sure you'll tell me you wouldn't have used it
I guess you just know it all.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Incorrect. If you read most of the statements people have made about not cheating, you would also read their reasons. The majority of people know right from wrong and realize that it impacts more than just the one using the cheat. You'd read just how hollow of a victory cheating is. Maybe they already knew that from the start or maybe they learned it first hand from cheating once. Either way, they know the difference. It's easy to see who is fake and who is real even in text when they go to the extent to explain that people have in this forum.
If you want to cheat, do it in a single player game. You can cheat yourself and your bank account all you want there. Enjoy your easy and hollow victory there. The rest of us are trying to get our money's worth out of a game we pay/paid for and trying to overcome the challenges afforded by that payment.
Didn't anyone see this in the article? "I generally don’t cheat in games......." Generally? Really? What does that mean anyway? You either do or you don't. Which is it? It makes the entire article take on a totally different spin to me. Which way you ask? To me, anyone who cheats, even "generally", has NO CREDIBILITY.
Let's party like it is 1863!
I noticed this too... I was thinking "huh?".
The big question though is 'what is cheating?'.
In my opinion cheating is something that violates the rules of the game world... which means exploits are technically not cheating since exploits are within the game dynamics. hacking however IS cheating becasue it is deliberately altering the game rules. Some hackers say that hacking is exploiting, but I think most people would agree there is a very clear difference.
I understand your take on the issue. The author of the article kind of shows, more or less, no reasoning because she states something so blantly questionable. If she doesn't KNOW, that is one thing. If she THINKS she cheats sometimes, that is another. But if she thinks cheating has shades of grey then she is totally out of touch.
Let's party like it is 1863!
Interesting to note, APB Reloaded beta finally brough onboard Punkbuster and suddenly several things happened.
1) Number of overall players playing dropped.
2) Complaints of Rampant cheating have decreased significantly.
And yes I hate cheats also.
I wouldn't get my hopes up so easy. Battlefield2 used punkbuster. That game was plagued by aimbots and other cheats. When I described horrible 3rd party anti cheat in previous posts, punkbuster was the one that did the most to reinforce that conclusion.
A debate is based on facts, and where there is a lack of fact then your simply just blowing smoke, anyone here could be a.cheater regardless of what they say, and we all have the capacity to say otherwise is being in self denial
Really? Cheaters started out like people such as myself or others who never are inclined to cheat and, no matter what the circumstances, never will in the entire time we play a game? Something about the game "makes them do it"? Sounds like an apologist rationalization, painting the cheaters as victims of the games they voluntarily play... "They start out as honest people, but the game makes them become cheaters! Those poor, poor honest people being led astray!".
How does that account for people who sign up for the beta of a game - one which they've never played before - with the sole intention of finding every exploit and cheat they can before the game goes live, so they can have an advantage over other players from day one of retail?
Were they "honest people" like myself and others, but somehow the game "made them" change into a cheater.... before they ever played it?
I have known people who cheat in everything they do... from school work, to games, to anything they can possibly find a way to cheat on. Are they somehow "honest people who sound just like me and wouldn't ever cheat" also? What happened to them, I wonder, to make them decide to cheat on everything, if they do indeed fit your generalization that "those people you call cheaters were just like you at one time"?
Sorry... The actual truth is, some people are just cheating assholes who do it for no other reason than because they can, or believe that if it helps them win, then "the end justifies the means".
The games don't "make them do it".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Actually, the opposite. My view on humanity is a very negative one. While I can agree that a lot of people lie, I have to believe that most of the people posting here about the negatives of cheating have valid reasons for being against it. That shows that they have experienced it from one view or the other.
I'm no angel. I have cheated in a game. I saw someone cheating and talked to them about it. I learned the cheat and abused it. Know what? It was boring. It was pointless. By not having to play the game I cheated myself out of most of it. I LEARNED. Now, I am completely anti-cheat. The reason most people keep cheating is because they think they have some hand in the cheat's performance. They believe they are somehow doing part of it. They lie to themself for many reasons. For some it's because they can't compete. For others it's because they are too pompous to ever be seen as making a mistake or losing a fight. But, as I've said 100000000 times, it's hollow. It's a lie. You are not playing. You are not winning. The cheat is. A lot of people can not handle that truth because they've falsely built up this persona/ego of themselves that they can not live up to. Call it a character flaw. Call it what you like. Too many people avoid challenge in all areas of life. They get everything handed to them and then cry when they have to do something for themself. Our society sucks as a whole. But, guess what. None of that is an excuse or the actual fact of the matter. Cheating is cheating yourself and everyone you interact with. Nothing you gain from it is real. There was no challenge you overcame. There was no fight you won. There was no glory. There was only your lack of trying, lack of skill, and complete hollow self.
I have scars. Do you?
Indeed. No one downloaded or used that cheat for them. They are only a victim of their own lazy actions.
Oh I know... It's the old "but but everyone else was cheating so I did too". Welcome to being a sheep. Remember when your mom or dad said "if everyone was jumping off a cliff, would you do it too?". Lemming.
I was implying that anyone could become a cheater and cross that line because the truth is people read into things and make assumptions about a vast cornucopia of subject matter concerning online gaming, just as this article has proven, WMike assumed i was trying to justify why people do it when in fact it has nothing to do with why, but more so with who and when. It's. Easy to sit here and say, cheat? Me? Hell no! I'm. Playing devils advocate because there are innumerable factors to a mmo, and no one person would ever truly know what one person in a sea of thousands is doing or thinking, that would be presumptuous and overly judgemental to the point of being trollish. There is a great deal of grey area I know nothing about, and I'm sure very few others do too, to me cheaters are like pop up ads, you either figure out how to play with out being affected by them or you just get used to them being there
There is no real gray area in what we are discussing. We are not talking about mistakenly killing a boss encounter because of an unintended game mechanic. We are talking about people who find that and repeatedly use it. We are talking about people who knowingly cheat and lie to themself and others. You either cheat or you do not. Honestly, you sound like someone trying to excuse cheaters as some victim of society. This isn't someone stealing food to avoid starving. And, it's still stealing. Have you ever been that hungry? I have been. Looking at the change in your pocket and wondering if that last bit of change should be spent on some chips to stop you stomach from growling and hurting or you should save it to make an emergency pay phone call if needed. I could have stolen. I had easy access because of the job I had. I did not.
Also, you can't just avoid cheaters in every game. Take a FPS for example. The only way to avoid them is to change servers. That only works as long as they aren't on every server when it becomes rampant like it often does. They are ruining the game play of other for selfish reasons. If you think you can just ignore all cheaters, I'm afraid you are the one that is naive. In your ending statement, change cheater to any criminal action and see if that changes your opinion.
And now it's the fault of the game company that people cheat. While a lot make it too easy, are too easy on those caught, and take security and cheating too lightly, they did not hand you the cheat or ask you to use it. The bottom line is, the person chose to cheat. There is no one to blame but themselves
[edit] I'm tired of saying the same things while people try to just push responsibility on something or someone else. I'm done with this discussion.[/edit]