Thinking of coming back, (talk me into it please..)

SynxVII · April 2011

So I have played eve twice, once a long long time ago (before graphic update) and then I played about the time the graphics got updated. I made it to about 5mil sp, not really powerful but played it enough to get a feel of the game. My first period playing I was mainly solo and my friends didnt take to the game so got pretty lonely and ended up quitting. The second time I played for longer and decided I wanted to join a pvp corp, they helped me a little but ultimately I ended up stranded at an 0.0 station waiting for my skills to train up, unable to move around without getting dead fast.... (never really made much progress). The thing that turns me off from eve is the epic gap in sp between newer players and older players, it feels like its impossible to catch up and be competetive. I am not trolling the game, really. I am currently mmoless, I went back to regular mmos (wow, rift) but I find myself always thinking about eve like its a voice in the back of my head.

I still think of myself as a novice I am really just looking for someone to give me some suggestions for if I came back.

How to find a friend and laid back corp?

How to get into pvp without hiding in a station until my skills are up?

How to make enough isk to survive without having a second account?

Also is it possible to return to the game for free for a few days to see how it is? (some kind of veteran return thing?)

zevni78 · April 2011

I am in a similier situation, waiting to be invited to a good corp. I am doing high sec combat missions, (lvl3) it's good practice and cash, and if u take a salvager u can make a lot of money, this will fund your pvp, and u can do them as your skills go up, or u could buy the first month, but just lvl skills, then start playing at the second month. How where you doing 0.0? As a frigate tackler with a fleet?

There was a recent vet return offer, for a discount sub, which got me back in, check your account on the site for it.

If I get into this corp and the pvp works out I could ask them to let u in. (It's pirate hunting).

How did you end up stranded? Couldnt your corp escort you to high sec?

SynxVII · April 2011

umm well, they were into a feud with this other corp attacking each other stations and things so I was kind forgotten and too low skilled/equiped to help out.

Also I cant remember my account and am wondering if I should just start over >_<

zevni78 · April 2011

If you really can't get your old account, could I use my buddy system with you? its 21 days for a new account owner.

If you go minmatar i may be able to include u in my missions, I am doing republic fleet ones, maybe brutor later.

Or you may choose to wait till the major update when we get to walk around our ships, i may just train up til then.

SynxVII · April 2011

oh thanks its cool though I got my account back ^_^

cosy · April 2011

Originally posted by SynxVII

How to find a friend and laid back corp?

Talk to Akita T https://gate.eveonline.com/Profile/Akita%20T

gainesvilleg · April 2011

Originally posted by SynxVII
So I have played eve twice, once a long long time ago (before graphic update) and then I played about the time the graphics got updated. I made it to about 5mil sp, not really powerful but played it enough to get a feel of the game. My first period playing I was mainly solo and my friends didnt take to the game so got pretty lonely and ended up quitting. The second time I played for longer and decided I wanted to join a pvp corp, they helped me a little but ultimately I ended up stranded at an 0.0 station waiting for my skills to train up, unable to move around without getting dead fast.... (never really made much progress). The thing that turns me off from eve is the epic gap in sp between newer players and older players, it feels like its impossible to catch up and be competetive. I am not trolling the game, really. I am currently mmoless, I went back to regular mmos (wow, rift) but I find myself always thinking about eve like its a voice in the back of my head.

I still think of myself as a novice I am really just looking for someone to give me some suggestions for if I came back.

How to find a friend and laid back corp?

How to get into pvp without hiding in a station until my skills are up?

How to make enough isk to survive without having a second account?

Also is it possible to return to the game for free for a few days to see how it is? (some kind of veteran return thing?)

Joining EVE now in my opinion would be pointless, unless you want to spend at least 1 full year just skilling up and running mind-numbingly boring missions while you wait. And even after a full year you still will be a bitty role player in any meaningful PVP. Don't listen to the veterans who claim skills don't matter. Your piddly weakling ships will get smashed by the ships of the veterans. It takes tons of skills at max level to get the good ships equiped properly and even a single level of s single skill can take several days to level.

CCP's system of skill advancement is a great way to keep veterans from ever leaving as they have a built in advantage that they will never lose, and in fact forces them to buy multiple accounts if they want alts, since creating an alt on an existing account stops the skill advancement of their main. 90% of veterans NEVER stop skill advancement on their main, contrary to their claims that skills don't matter that much.

It is a fantastic business model that will keep this game alive for quite some time, primarily funded by the long-term veterans.

I had fun with it for several months a few years ago, but it got boring for me eventually so I ended up quiting it. I've thought about jumping back in just to mess around again as I too am MMOless now but the skill system is so anti-new-player I refuse to submit to that monthly fee grind in which you can literally NEVER EVER catch up.

kattehus · April 2011

Originally posted by SynxVII

I still think of myself as a novice I am really just looking for someone to give me some suggestions for if I came back.

How to find a friend and laid back corp?

How to get into pvp without hiding in a station until my skills are up?

How to make enough isk to survive without having a second account?

Also is it possible to return to the game for free for a few days to see how it is? (some kind of veteran return thing?)

Ignore the above poster, "I can't catch up" is the worst excuse. -.-; Especially when people keep proving that skills don't matter all that much.

I can't help you get into a corp, and since all corps are different, it's hard. Try hanging out in various chat channels and join into their conversation etc. there's bound to be someone nice amongst everyone. Then you might be able to join their corp.

Getting into pvp is probably harder, since you'll more-or-less need a corp. Solo pvp is possible, but it's hard. Best suggestion is to join a corp who does pvp.

You can do missions, trading, etc. on the side - without a second account. Hell, you can even have a second char on your first account doing it. It does take away a little of the available training time on your main, but it's worth it (especially if you don't want a second account). You could also buy a second char, but that's usually a bit expensive.

Don't know if it's possible to get back for free for a few days -- it might be, but my accs are subbed, so I wouldn't know. If you really just want to see how it is, create a trial account to check it out. Later, when/if you decide it's time to get a second account, you'll have that one to draw on, already partially trained and everything. :P

gainesvilleg · April 2011

Originally posted by kattehus

Originally posted by SynxVII

I still think of myself as a novice I am really just looking for someone to give me some suggestions for if I came back.

How to find a friend and laid back corp?

How to get into pvp without hiding in a station until my skills are up?

How to make enough isk to survive without having a second account?

Also is it possible to return to the game for free for a few days to see how it is? (some kind of veteran return thing?)

Ignore the above poster, "I can't catch up" is the worst excuse. -.-; Especially when people keep proving that skills don't matter all that much.

I can't help you get into a corp, and since all corps are different, it's hard. Try hanging out in various chat channels and join into their conversation etc. there's bound to be someone nice amongst everyone. Then you might be able to join their corp.

Getting into pvp is probably harder, since you'll more-or-less need a corp. Solo pvp is possible, but it's hard. Best suggestion is to join a corp who does pvp.

You can do missions, trading, etc. on the side - without a second account. Hell, you can even have a second char on your first account doing it. It does take away a little of the available training time on your main, but it's worth it (especially if you don't want a second account). You could also buy a second char, but that's usually a bit expensive.

Don't know if it's possible to get back for free for a few days -- it might be, but my accs are subbed, so I wouldn't know. If you really just want to see how it is, create a trial account to check it out. Later, when/if you decide it's time to get a second account, you'll have that one to draw on, already partially trained and everything. :P

Well why should he ignore me? I'm an ex EVE veteran myself and I repeat, you will be hopelessly behind for a very very long time if you start EVE now. Sure you can piddle around in a bunch of weak ships with poor fittings and subpar skill bonuses, but after several months a game should let you catch up. Just read a thread like this to get some perspective on skill training times:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1459267

Literally a full month of paying subscription fee while you wait for a SINGLE LEVEL of a SINGLE SKILL.

Sure you can still have fun, if you don't mind being a noob for a couple years rather than a couple months like most games.

But if you are competetive PVP type you want the playing field leveled within a reasonable amount of time. EVE is not for the new players who want to play meaningful roles in top-tier competetive PVP.

Malcanis · April 2011

Originally posted by SynxVII
umm well, they were into a feud with this other corp attacking each other stations and things so I was kind forgotten and too low skilled/equiped to help out.

Also I cant remember my account and am wondering if I should just start over >_<

CCP GMs are usually quite helpful about that kind of thing. Do you still have the original email account you used when you created the account? If so, they may have sent reactivation offers to that email which will help a lot. 5M SP is enough to be worth going to a little trouble for.

You will also get your learning skills "refunded" - giving you the skill points back to instantly apply to any skill you like. That will give you a further boost.

Malcanis · April 2011

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

EVE is not for the new players who want to play meaningful roles in top-tier competetive PVP.

Why should new players necessarily expect to be in "top tier competitive PvP"? Should years of skilling, practice, player knowledge etc count for nothing? Should you have nothing to work towards?

There is LOADS that new players can do. You're just not going to be as good as the best straight away is all. And there's no reason why you should expect to be, either.

You're meaningfully restricted by your skills for absolutely no more than the first 6 months. After that, any restrictions you experience are largely self-inflicted. The only exception is capital ships and as someone who has done the capital ships thing, let me tell you that they're not all that. They're a boring tool used largely to do boring jobs. Even Titan pilots spend the majority of their careers bridging other people into the fights, and listening on comms whilst they have the fun.

Most very high SP players prefer flying small or medium ships because they're much more fun. Skillpointwise, they're also realtively easy for a new player to "catch up" in. As for catching up in Player skill? Haha, well that's up to you, isn't it?

gainesvilleg · April 2011

Originally posted by Malcanis

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

EVE is not for the new players who want to play meaningful roles in top-tier competetive PVP.

Why should new players necessarily expect to be in "top tier competitive PvP"? Should years of skilling, practice, player knowledge etc count for nothing? Should you have nothing to work towards?

Years of practice and player knowledge I'm fine with. But "years of skilling" is an artificial game mechanic that keeps newer players from EVER being able to compete with a veteran player, even if equal in "practice" and "player knowledge." Those extra 5% skill bonuses and 5% better fittings add up real fast when you are talking about dozens of skills/fittings.

There is LOADS that new players can do. You're just not going to be as good as the best straight away is all. And there's no reason why you should expect to be, either.

There are things you can do, I wouldn't say LOADS though. Sure you can build things and/or play the markets, but that is very boring to a PVP type player (and requires many level 5 skills as well to do effectively). You can run PVE missions but oh my god they are so bland and boring. You can mindlessly rat for days I suppose, but clicking on a few icons representing pirates and destroy them is fun for maybe a week or two. You can gather resources but again that is such a slow and time consuming process that would not appeal to PVP types. If you enjoy competetive PVP, you expect an even playing field after a reasonable amount of time. EVE is not the game for those that enjoy competive and fair PVP unless you are willing to play itty bitty roles or are a multi-year veteran.

You're meaningfully restricted by your skills for absolutely no more than the first 6 months. After that, any restrictions you experience are largely self-inflicted. The only exception is capital ships and as someone who has done the capital ships thing, let me tell you that they're not all that. They're a boring tool used largely to do boring jobs. Even Titan pilots spend the majority of their careers bridging other people into the fights, and listening on comms whilst they have the fun.

This is flat out incorrect. To get the best ships, with the best fittings, and the top-tiers of all the skills that directly or indirectly affect your performance takes many many months. You can begin to narrow the gap after 6 months, but in PVP that hinges on a large accumulation of bonuses they really do add up fast. Sure if you are clearly superior to your opponent you can win. But you have to constantly play at a fundamental disadvantage in stats.

Most very high SP players prefer flying small or medium ships because they're much more fun. Skillpointwise, they're also realtively easy for a new player to "catch up" in. As for catching up in Player skill? Haha, well that's up to you, isn't it?

Player skill will take no longer than 4 months to catch up in with practice. But those skill times artificially imposed by the game, you will NEVER catch up. A veterans dream come true and a hook for CCP to ensure veterans never quit, and even buy extra alt accounts to supplement their mains.

New players can have fun, as long as you don't expect to play meaningful roles in top-tier competetive PVP. Many people don't mind that, but then they are not into playing top-tier PVP games...

Responses in red above...

CactusJack · April 2011

this thread comes up every week or so. "i'll never catch the vets, it's hopeless." I understand that you are a vet gainesvilleg, but you are blatantly trolling. Your analogy of long term vets keeping the game alive is also trolling. Many long term vets use PLEX, therefore CCP doesn't make a dime off of them. I have over 100 million sp on one account and near 100 on another...guess what my ship of choice usually is? Arazu or Ishtar..HACs. I also enjoy a good T1 frigate run from time to time.

Malcanis is stating to you absolute truth in many vets i know, including me, that flying capital ships sucks. One of the biggest single myths in the skilling system is you have to take all of your skills to V...that simply isn't so. EvE illicits this response from most personality types b/c of their innate need to min/max all of their skills. However, it is simply not necessary.

I don't care if you have every gunnery skill in game to V, the correct application of EW will neutralize it, and you will be flying a ship that either can't lock, can't track or reduce it's range to nil. I tell my rookies of when I first started, there were no dedicated EAS like there are now. You know what I flew...a 10k isk fully fitted Griffin. I would pay good money to hear a cerb pilot that I jammed for 4 FULL mins, on a gate so my group could come and kill him. He was FURIOUS, b/c his 500mil ship couldn't do anything, and he had to sit and wait like a bee in a web...even though he prob had 50-75 mil sp more than me at the time.

Please stop telling people that unless you have 60 mil sp in PvP skills or some arbritary number that you are useless in combat. It is simply not true. I take rookies out with me, and they get kills in T1 frigs/cruisers regularly. Anyone who makes this allegation is simply not being honest with new players.

EvE was never designed for new players to be flying advanced ships to begin with. Where most people go wrong is thinking that ADVANCED means automatic win. It absolutely doesn't. Killboards are littered with mails of people that think this way.

gainesvilleg · April 2011

Originally posted by CactusJack
this thread comes up every week or so. "i'll never catch the vets, it's hopeless." I understand that you are a vet gainesvilleg, but you are blatantly trolling. Your analogy of long term vets keeping the game alive is also trolling. Many long term vets use PLEX, therefore CCP doesn't make a dime off of them. I have over 100 million sp on one account and near 100 on another...guess what my ship of choice usually is? Arazu or Ishtar..HACs. I also enjoy a good T1 frigate run from time to time.

Now PLEX came after I already quit, but my understanding is that PLEX is bought buy somebody, most likely new players buying it in order to buy characters with millions of skill points so they can get a jump start on becoming a veteran. This motiviation is there because of the absolute critical nature of skills, and those veterans would not be able to play for free on their alts without this motivation.

And I really do understand that skill bonuses and fitting bonuses isn't the be-all-end-all in PVP but to say they don't tilt the field in favor of those that have tier 5 skills and best fittings is just not being honest. It can easily add up to a huge statistical advantage. I rean my own spreadsheets when I played and it really is amazing how fast it adds up when you run the numbers. Sure great tacticts will beat poor tacticts but if your skills are equal the veteran has a fundamental statistical advantage that is not trivial.

Malcanis is stating to you absolute truth in many vets i know, including me, that flying capital ships sucks. One of the biggest single myths in the skilling system is you have to take all of your skills to V...that simply isn't so. EvE illicits this response from most personality types b/c of their innate need to min/max all of their skills. However, it is simply not necessary.

Having dozens of skills at 5 versus 4 makes a huge huge difference when added together. I'm sure you run some spreadsheets as a vet and you know what I am talking about. I don't disagree superior tactics trumps that, but a competetive PVP type like myself knows that others have great tacticts as well. The fundamental statisical disadvantage is just hard to swallow.

I don't care if you have every gunnery skill in game to V, the correct application of EW will neutralize it, and you will be flying a ship that either can't lock, can't track or reduce it's range to nil. I tell my rookies of when I first started, there were no dedicated EAS like there are now. You know what I flew...a 10k isk fully fitted Griffin. I would pay good money to hear a cerb pilot that I jammed for 4 FULL mins, on a gate so my group could come and kill him. He was FURIOUS, b/c his 500mil ship couldn't do anything, and he had to sit and wait like a bee in a web...even though he prob had 50-75 mil sp more than me at the time.

Yes with numbers you can create superior tactical advantage. If you have only team mentality and don't mind the role you are assigned many are quite happy with this. I guess many very competetive PVP types like myself have a certain ego that makes playing support roles very difficult. Character flaw I suppose but I am not alone. My warnings to new EVE players would be geared towards those that like meaningful roles in top-tier competetive PVP.

Please stop telling people that unless you have 60 mil sp in PvP skills or some arbritary number that you are useless in combat. It is simply not true. I take rookies out with me, and they get kills in T1 frigs/cruisers regularly. Anyone who makes this allegation is simply not being honest with new players.

I never said useless, you are spinning my words.

EvE was never designed for new players to be flying advanced ships to begin with. Where most people go wrong is thinking that ADVANCED means automatic win. It absolutely doesn't. Killboards are littered with mails of people that think this way.

Yes, and people walk home from Vegas with a big score as well, but staticially you are just not at an advantage.

With all due respect I am not trolling. A poster asked about returning to EVE and starting over and I responded with my opinions on the matter. I understand that to post some negative things in an EVE forum it will cause some to call it "trolling" but I don't consider it so. Is any negative comment trolling in your opinion?

But I will again offer my responses to your post in red above, and I note that I never said there is no fun to be had in EVE. For patient builder types or for those that enjoy support roles in PVP it is a fantastic game. And for raw PVP if you are a veteran it is very fun. It is just not for a new player that enjoys competetive top tier PVP. I stand by that opinion. We all can't have the same opinions now can we? The original poster needs to understand my perspective as well I think...

And by all means at least do the trial. I did have a bunch of fun in the game years ago so I don't consider myself a mindless basher of the game, just the skill mechanic particularl the ridiculously long train times tilt the game towards veterans. It really is factual not trolling.

Phry · April 2011

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by CactusJack

this thread comes up every week or so. "i'll never catch the vets, it's hopeless." I understand that you are a vet gainesvilleg, but you are blatantly trolling. Your analogy of long term vets keeping the game alive is also trolling. Many long term vets use PLEX, therefore CCP doesn't make a dime off of them. I have over 100 million sp on one account and near 100 on another...guess what my ship of choice usually is? Arazu or Ishtar..HACs. I also enjoy a good T1 frigate run from time to time.

Now PLEX came after I already quit, but my understanding is that PLEX is bought buy somebody, most likely new players buying it in order to buy characters with millions of skill points so they can get a jump start on becoming a veteran. This motiviation is there because of the absolute critical nature of skills, and those veterans would not be able to play for free on their alts without this motivation.

And I really do understand that skill bonuses and fitting bonuses isn't the be-all-end-all in PVP but to say they don't tilt the field in favor of those that have tier 5 skills and best fittings is just not being honest. It can easily add up to a huge statistical advantage. I rean my own spreadsheets when I played and it really is amazing how fast it adds up when you run the numbers. Sure great tacticts will beat poor tacticts but if your skills are equal the veteran has a fundamental statistical advantage that is not trivial.

Malcanis is stating to you absolute truth in many vets i know, including me, that flying capital ships sucks. One of the biggest single myths in the skilling system is you have to take all of your skills to V...that simply isn't so. EvE illicits this response from most personality types b/c of their innate need to min/max all of their skills. However, it is simply not necessary.

Having dozens of skills at 5 versus 4 makes a huge huge difference when added together. I'm sure you run some spreadsheets as a vet and you know what I am talking about. I don't disagree superior tactics trumps that, but a competetive PVP type like myself knows that others have great tacticts as well. The fundamental statisical disadvantage is just hard to swallow.

I don't care if you have every gunnery skill in game to V, the correct application of EW will neutralize it, and you will be flying a ship that either can't lock, can't track or reduce it's range to nil. I tell my rookies of when I first started, there were no dedicated EAS like there are now. You know what I flew...a 10k isk fully fitted Griffin. I would pay good money to hear a cerb pilot that I jammed for 4 FULL mins, on a gate so my group could come and kill him. He was FURIOUS, b/c his 500mil ship couldn't do anything, and he had to sit and wait like a bee in a web...even though he prob had 50-75 mil sp more than me at the time.

Yes with numbers you can create superior tactical advantage. If you have only team mentality and don't mind the role you are assigned many are quite happy with this. I guess many very competetive PVP types like myself have a certain ego that makes playing support roles very difficult. Character flaw I suppose but I am not alone. My warnings to new EVE players would be geared towards those that like meaningful roles in top-tier competetive PVP.

Please stop telling people that unless you have 60 mil sp in PvP skills or some arbritary number that you are useless in combat. It is simply not true. I take rookies out with me, and they get kills in T1 frigs/cruisers regularly. Anyone who makes this allegation is simply not being honest with new players.

I never said useless, you are spinning my words.

EvE was never designed for new players to be flying advanced ships to begin with. Where most people go wrong is thinking that ADVANCED means automatic win. It absolutely doesn't. Killboards are littered with mails of people that think this way.

Yes, and people walk home from Vegas with a big score as well, but staticially you are just not at an advantage.

With all due respect I am not trolling. A poster asked about returning to EVE and starting over and I responded with my opinions on the matter. I understand that to post some negative things in an EVE forum it will cause some to call it "trolling" but I don't consider it so. Is any negative comment trolling in your opinion?

But I will again offer my responses to your post in red above, and I note that I never said there is no fun to be had in EVE. For patient builder types or for those that enjoy support roles in PVP it is a fantastic game. And for raw PVP if you are a veteran it is very fun. It is just not for a new player that enjoys competetive top tier PVP. I stand by that opinion. We all can't have the same opinions now can we? The original poster needs to understand my perspective as well I think...

And by all means at least do the trial. I did have a bunch of fun in the game years ago so I don't consider myself a mindless basher of the game, just the skill mechanic particularl the ridiculously long train times tilt the game towards veterans. It really is factual not trolling.

PVP isnt Duelling.. its not 1 v 1.. and saying new players can't compete at the top tier of pvp.. is totally bogus.. what exactly do you consider the 'top tier' of pvp to actually be.. if you mean capital fleet combat.. then.. thats something even a lot of veterans don't get involved in.. and its definitely not 1 v 1.. pvp in Eve is everywhere.. and tactics is the most important aspect.. outplaying the opponent(s) is how battles are won.. gambling your going to win on some arbitrary skill level will lose you more ships than anything else.. the only thing that will win you fights in Eve.. is teamwork and tactics.. and you don't need over 5m sp for that.. the trouble is that some people only see numbers.. and Eve.. isnt about numbers.. or spread sheets.. or isk values.. you can crunch those numbers any way you like.. but if you can't cut it in pvp.. its because you underestimated your opponents.. which is what concentrating on SP numbers will do for you.. CCP created Eve in a way that allows players to utilise their own skills.. if you rely on skills levels to win fights for you.. you won't.

mm0wiggins · April 2011

I have been playing EVE since 2004.

I have almost 40 million SP (cancelled account and came back a few times, hence why i'm not up at like 80 mill)

Couple days ago I got bored and fitted on a rifter for some fast paced PVP -

Saw a guy in Hek asking for someone to fight him in a frig battle.

Normally, I don't fly frigs, but I figured why not? I have plenty of SP and can fit any ship the way i want ...

The guy was flying a Merlin, and had a 2010 character, so... I am 6 years "ahead" in SP, practically.

He owned me pretty good. LIke, BAD. He knew that most people that duel frig fights are in rifters, and he was fitted to counter them. He was smart. I was lazy. End result: I lost a ship to a player who started 6 years after I did.

I got a good laugh, and he probably felt pretty good about it. We kept chat going in good spirits and he went on to fight others, and I went back to my usual ships and went out for some salvaging to make up for the fittings I lost. Was a good day in my eyes, because it was fun.

The point is, SP doesn't determine who's better or who's competitive. Tactics, planning, smarts, and ship loadout all play a much more integral part of combat.

Come back to EVE, mr. OP ;-)

ElderRat · April 2011

I have been in and out of EVE for awhile. It is a sandbox game, catching up is truly irrelevent. In fact I rarely play combat at all, I have more fun mining or transporting goods. When I have played combat i usually fly a lower tier ship because losing a higher tier ship in pvp can be very expensive. Have fun and lose a small ship, you can get lucky and do a lot of damage that way.

The problem with EVE, as I see it, is people.. even vets trying to apply theme-park values to a sandbox game. EVE is not for everyone, I have to take breaks from it because it makes me overly competitve in real life. EVE is a great game because you are not locked into a role unless you choose to be. My opinion.

gainesvilleg · April 2011

Originally posted by Phry
PVP isnt Duelling.. its not 1 v 1.. and saying new players can't compete at the top tier of pvp.. is totally bogus.. what exactly do you consider the 'top tier' of pvp to actually be.. if you mean capital fleet combat.. then.. thats something even a lot of veterans don't get involved in.. and its definitely not 1 v 1.. pvp in Eve is everywhere.. and tactics is the most important aspect.. outplaying the opponent(s) is how battles are won.. gambling your going to win on some arbitrary skill level will lose you more ships than anything else.. the only thing that will win you fights in Eve.. is teamwork and tactics.. and you don't need over 5m sp for that.. the trouble is that some people only see numbers.. and Eve.. isnt about numbers.. or spread sheets.. or isk values.. you can crunch those numbers any way you like.. but if you can't cut it in pvp.. its because you underestimated your opponents.. which is what concentrating on SP numbers will do for you.. CCP created Eve in a way that allows players to utilise their own skills.. if you rely on skills levels to win fights for you.. you won't.

Sigh. I do understand this, although there are some 1-1 battles out there particularly when exploring or ratting or just getting from A to B, and there are many many small-team skirmishes which have a high correlation to 1-1 statistical-type advantages, particularly a gatherer/protector small team. And in large team battles there are many roles and a new player will need to play his part of course.

But to your last statement about relying on skill levels to win fights, this is where I have fundamental disagreements with some of the current vets here. I am really big into statistics and analysis if you haven't guessed, and in fact EVE was like a wet dream for me regarding this. Optimization of skill paths and fittings was very fun for me. Getting max stats out of fixed CPU/power/slot types oh my god it was great. And I was pretty good at the game mechanics as well so I'm not a disgruntled ex-EVE player who had problems with PVP. I did find the battle mechanics a bit detached for my tastes, but it was great change of pace from other MMOs or FPS.

Skill levels and fittings have significant meaning assuming everybody plays tactically sound. If this were not the case why do they even bother with the skill system? I actually find the notion that it doesn't matter odd. Small advantages in multiple statistics creates huge advantages in aggregate as well as over time. It matters immensly. It just isn't obvious, just like to non-baseball fans the small differences in probabilities seem minor, but they make the difference in the long run.

AND PLEASE, I WANT TO STRESS, AT LEAST DO THE TRIAL.

Despite my issues with the skill system for new players it is still a fun game in many ways, particularly if you are a very patient builder type.

kattehus · April 2011

Fucking hell, I had a shitload to write here, but my connection died, and everything went to shit.

TL:DR; If you want to catch up, you'll catch up. Even if it's only in one single (of the massive amounts) of the "areas" in the game, you'll catch up. And you'll catch up in (at most) six months of gametime. Shit, you'll catch up within a month with most.

I'll post whatever else I had to post later, but I'm too getrunk to remember even half of what I wrote. :S

All in all, I (mostly) agree with cosy and Malcanis. Those are the two people on these forums that I rely on the most to say what I think and/or feel.

Ps. I cannot disagree more with gainesvilleg. Although he says he's a vet, it sounds like he never played the game. Sorry, but that's the impression you leave, mate.

Edit: I couldn't spell "cosy", and for some reason wrote "cost" (*rollseyes*)

LateEdit: Kyleran and Gdemami are also two of the few people here, in addition to cosy and Malcanis.

lalartu · April 2011

I just joined Eve about a month ago, and I don't see why someone would say it's pointless to join now.

There;s no need to catch up with anyone, it's not a race. you need to make a plan for what ship you want to fly and within a month you'll have it

even as a newb, I find it easy to make money and the game is totaly worth joining if you want to try a very complex economic simulation with FFA PVP model.

sure, dying in the game hurts like hell and you might even stop playing for a while if you die, but I don't see anything wrong with this. it's the best way to learn from your mistakes too!

Finally, if you join EVE University of a bunch of other helpful corps that love taking newbs, they will help you train your skills for free and will supply you with a bunch of free equipment as well. So i really don't see how someone would say that it's impossible to play as a newbie. if anything, it's more fun to be a newb now than it ever was!!!

so if you do decide to join:

1) apply for Eve university asap

2) do the basic training missions for all the free rewards

3) do the Sisters of Eve arc quest for more rewards and money

Just watching youtube videos alone is enough of a proof that you don't need to be a 6 year old PRO to win every battle.

As a matter of fact, a player flying an ultra fast frigate can take out a battleship simply because the frigate will be too fast for battleship to target, it'll just take a long time and a very stubborn battleship player hehe.

So yeah, do join the game. it's complex, it has lots of potential and is definitely worth it

also once you have good enough profit comining in, you might never have to pay for the subscription fees ever again since you can just buy PLEX every month instead

sadeyx · April 2011

I think the answer is simple really, try to join a corp that are of about the same experience level as you.

Rather than being in a corp where your basically told about things you never knew all the time, join a corp where you might be helping people less experienced, or in a new corp that values you and your input.

Eve has a constant stream of new players needing help, some come from other mmo's and start corps quickly. Plenty about just need to do some research and dont feel pushed into joining. its your choice.

Disinfectant · April 2011

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by kattehus

Originally posted by SynxVII

I still think of myself as a novice I am really just looking for someone to give me some suggestions for if I came back.

How to find a friend and laid back corp?

How to get into pvp without hiding in a station until my skills are up?

How to make enough isk to survive without having a second account?

Also is it possible to return to the game for free for a few days to see how it is? (some kind of veteran return thing?)

Ignore the above poster, "I can't catch up" is the worst excuse. -.-; Especially when people keep proving that skills don't matter all that much.

I can't help you get into a corp, and since all corps are different, it's hard. Try hanging out in various chat channels and join into their conversation etc. there's bound to be someone nice amongst everyone. Then you might be able to join their corp.

Getting into pvp is probably harder, since you'll more-or-less need a corp. Solo pvp is possible, but it's hard. Best suggestion is to join a corp who does pvp.

You can do missions, trading, etc. on the side - without a second account. Hell, you can even have a second char on your first account doing it. It does take away a little of the available training time on your main, but it's worth it (especially if you don't want a second account). You could also buy a second char, but that's usually a bit expensive.

Don't know if it's possible to get back for free for a few days -- it might be, but my accs are subbed, so I wouldn't know. If you really just want to see how it is, create a trial account to check it out. Later, when/if you decide it's time to get a second account, you'll have that one to draw on, already partially trained and everything. :P

Well why should he ignore me? I'm an ex EVE veteran myself and I repeat, you will be hopelessly behind for a very very long time if you start EVE now. Sure you can piddle around in a bunch of weak ships with poor fittings and subpar skill bonuses, but after several months a game should let you catch up. Just read a thread like this to get some perspective on skill training times:

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1459267

Literally a full month of paying subscription fee while you wait for a SINGLE LEVEL of a SINGLE SKILL.

Sure you can still have fun, if you don't mind being a noob for a couple years rather than a couple months like most games.

But if you are competetive PVP type you want the playing field leveled within a reasonable amount of time. EVE is not for the new players who want to play meaningful roles in top-tier competetive PVP.

Some people don't like everything handed to them. You do and that is fine. Plenty of games just for people like you. But for the rest, it's very limited.

I have 25M SP and fly a rifter and a 'cane and still haven't trained for battleships yet. I've been training a carebear to make ISK offline.

Could always skiil up for a Tengu, which is one of the best ships in game right now. How long to get in one of those? 150 days starting from scratch? 5 months of training and grinding ISK and learning how to play the game sounds pretty normal to me. I bet within those 5 months he'll find a good corp to fly with.

Trust me OP, you'll need at least 5 months to learn how to play, you might as well aim for the best ship while you do it.

miagisan · April 2011

i hate this argument. YES YOU CAN CATCH UP AND BE EFFECTIVE AS A NEW PLAYER! Skills only go to lvl 5, and unless you are fighting a capital ship...almost everyone is on par with everyone else. The soft cap ensures that new players can catch up.

Stramline your training, pick a specialization, and find a good corp/alliance to hang with....and it wont matter.

ElderRat · April 2011

Originally posted by miagisan
i hate this argument. YES YOU CAN CATCH UP AND BE EFFECTIVE AS A NEW PLAYER! Skills only go to lvl 5, and unless you are fighting a capital ship...almost everyone is on par with everyone else. The soft cap ensures that new players can catch up.

Stramline your training, pick a specialization, and find a good corp/alliance to hang with....and it wont matter.

more about money to fund ships than skill level. And never risk a ship you cannot afford to lose.

sadeyx · May 2011

Confirming that "you'll be hoplessly behind" to be false.

This old chesnut only comes from Eve players who cry to their mummys because they cant solo and keep getting humiliated.

AlysenMinase · May 2011

To those that say you never catch up. Go on the EVE Wiki, pick something you want to specialize at (ship, occupation, etc) and download EVEmon. You can queue up all the skills on it to see how long it takes to raise them. Most likely, the skills you need to fly that ship perfect won't take more than 6 months. You've caught up that easy.

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