I'd love a game where I could be a thoroughly evil bastard, burning villages and slaughtering elves, hobbits etc., with no good playable races whatsoever.
So is your question 'Why do we always have to be the hero rather than the villian?' or 'Why are we always the star of the show?'
Why do we always have to be the hero rather than the villian?
Well, gameplay doesn't really change much. The only way real villianous gameplay could play out is in a pvp-centric game where the dominating 'faction' (heroes or villians) are in control of the rules, the npc cities, protecting the populace or taxing them so harshly they can barely survive and killing enough of them that they plead with heroes to wrest control from their captors.
Also, part of feeling like a villian is being able to cause whatever havoc you desire until a force strong enough stops you. MMO words need to become a lot more interactive in that regard.
Why are we always the star of the show?
You're always front and center on your screen. You're never going to feel like you're playing a game that's not about you whether you be world first 'skilled' or scooting your little ship around mining all the shinies. The story progresses without you because there are others willing to play the storyline so that if you can't, or won't, the things still have been done.
ERrrrrrr, this has already been done. This is another case of mmos having done this, but the genre then moved away from it and now people want to go back.
Lineage 2
You aren't a hero, you're just some random guy/gal that decides to adventure and fight. Whether or not you're a hero is completely up to you. Villains will go around and pk people just because they can and will continue to do this until someone ('good people') comes by to stop them.
You can quite -literally- become a hero too through the Olympiad...although that's a whole other kettle of fish that I don't want to get in to.
The game is largely discounted because of how grind heavy it is, but that really doesn't change the fact that what you're talking about here has already been done.
Why is it that we always have to win right away. I just about every mmo you are destined to beat the game everytime. Why can't we have an end game storyline where the ending makes us lose so that maybe in the expansion we can be the hero or maybe in the next sequel ? Developers never make you earn your keep it is almost always handed to you on a silver platter with dumbed down gameplay.
Because no one wants to be destined to lose, you always want to be able to find a way to win.
I recall in WOW's cataclysm expansion the new water zone's main quest line ended up with me losing, the villian triumphed. While I was surprised and somewhat amused, I was sort of annoyed that the loss was predestined, hence I wasn't really happy with it.
As others have said, sandbox games don't have this issue, because the bulk of the content is against other players and you can chose to be evil or good.
In EVE if you like you can even do the PVE content (mission running) in an evil manner by running missions for pirate factions instead of the usual concorde supported good factions.
As for creating a standard themepark game with an "evil" path, I don't see that happening, its hard enough to make content to keep the entire player base happy, splitting it between a good and evil path just isn't going to be finanically practicial.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What if we had a player controlled dungeons? That would change the old dungeon concept of players entering and killing the AI. Here, the players will be the bosses and the players will be fighting them for items.
We need more immersiveness in the MMO world and sadly none have ever bothered to make the world immersive and not just a part of the leveling and skilling your proffesions/jobs.
Rift with their rifts get old fast and become boring since you will get better item from the dungeons.
I'd like to see a game where you can be the villian and to take a group of good guys to beat you while you killing them on 1v1. But how the MMO world "revulitionize" the players starting to whine more and more, at least in the games I've played. I really don't know what's happening with the players mentality, have they become elitists? Or maybe they just want to be superior than you are?
Here's the problem with this:
Players will ALWAYS try to find a way to not play fair. Developers will always design a mechanic that is -intended- to work one way, but players will find a way to abuse that mechanic to work in their favor.
That said: This has already been done. Aion. In Aion some dungeons are PvMvP. Meaning that one Elyos and one Asmodian group enters the same dungeon, on different paths. They can choose to intersect each other and fight each other, or they can choose to try to just rush through faster than the other group.
In this sense the hardest 'boss' fight is technically the other group.
You arent always the hero in every mmorpg. In Lineage 2 you start as a peasant make it to the soldier and if you make it ever to 2 classes at high lv you are noble.
One of the thing that attracted me to RPG period was the fact that I get to be the heroin. Call me fickle or whatever you want but I like being the knight in shining armor LOL.
What I don't like is how these MMO's portray the evil sides out to ALWAYS be ugly races instead of looking just as good as the good side. I have never actually played an evil character to max level, however I have een considering it. But I will most definately say I think just because you decide to go evil side doesn't mean you should be ugly. Maybe the sheep in wolves clothing kind of idea. Not every evil peron is ugly in looks so why should they be in fantasy? Other than people want to make their kids think that every evil being is ugly on the outside which is not true.
I think it might be for the same reason they turned Brother's Grim into lovely rose colored fairy tales instead of what the real story was to begin with LOL.
But I am all for change not against I just do and have always liked the being the good guy syndrome. Ugh that doesn't sound good when you call it what it really is does it? HAHAHAHA!!!!
I just like FUN MMORPG and rpg period you make one for me and I will play it if it is what I like doesn't matter if they are all good or all evil or both. If it's a good game I'll play it. Quality not quantity
Just don't leave out the fun crafting is all I ask and make it dull lol.
Originally posted by Ouriel What if we had a player controlled dungeons? That would change the old dungeon concept of players entering and killing the AI. Here, the players will be the bosses and the players will be fighting them for items. We need more immersiveness in the MMO world and sadly none have ever bothered to make the world immersive and not just a part of the leveling and skilling your proffesions/jobs. Rift with their rifts get old fast and become boring since you will get better item from the dungeons. I'd like to see a game where you can be the villian and to take a group of good guys to beat you while you killing them on 1v1. But how the MMO world "revulitionize" the players starting to whine more and more, at least in the games I've played. I really don't know what's happening with the players mentality, have they become elitists? Or maybe they just want to be superior than you are?
Left 4 Dead is probably one of the better examples of such a design in action, though the game is almost completely combat-oriented with no story or backdrop beyond the obvious setting.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I really am thinking about this now to and I think I have to say that on any bases no one can really be the bad guy in any MMO. I see these as the rules to being a bad guy in an MMO now.
1. No one telling you what to do
2. Able to attack any and every one
3. No money needed to get something
4. Allowed to go where ever with out having to do story
5. Able to destroy an area at will
(if you wish to add more go for it but these are minumum requirements.)
As for creating a standard themepark game with an "evil" path, I don't see that happening, its hard enough to make content to keep the entire player base happy, splitting it between a good and evil path just isn't going to be finanically practicial.
I don't agree. EQ2 already had some quests on the Freeport side that didn't make you feel a hero at all, often it was some dark or evil stuff you got to do, NPC's were scornful or looking down upon you and often it didn't make you feel the hero at all, badass at the most.
AoC had this thing where a lot of the NPC's were ungrateful bastards, often scorning or insulting or ridiculing you even when you had done the things they asked you to do. It was actually quite fun and refreshing after the bland quests in other MMO's that targeted you to be 'The Hero'. Which was funny, because the Destiny quests in AoC were designed to make you be 'The One' but the regular quests you were often just a schmuck or lowlife or only very grudgingly got some respect from the NPC's.
As for the OP question, ehm, hello? Look at all the movies, books and games where the main characters are the majority of the time off to do for the better of the world or their environment, and most times it has a happy ending because apparently that's what people like in their movies/books/games, a positive upside twist to the tail (maybe American movies have that need for a happy ending more than European movies). In MMO's your avatar replaces the main characters of movies or singleplayer games , so that heroic touch is with your adventuring in MMO's too because apparently research has shown that the majority of people like that archetype and meme.
The evil path is btw nothing more than the same, it's still playing the hero but then for the dark side, the anti-hero or most badass of the villains. Games like Fable has it, KOTOR too. In SWTOR your avatar can choose as evil a path as can be, in your quest choices you won't be limited to be on 1 path, the heroic good one, anymore.
As for whether you feel powerful or one of the grunts in the MMO world, that all depends upon the difficulty level of the challenges that the designers have implemented. In games like EQ you didn't feel like some superhero, but just one of many adventurers: your avatar still had powers, sure, but it needed them fully in the dangerous, harsh world it traveled in.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
thinking about it more..I'd love it if a game was designed that you will likely FAIL in the end-game...that would be hilarious...only a FEW are worthy enough to complete the game...it could be insanely funny if you have to go before an EVIL lord only to find out your deeds didn't match up to his standards and you have to redo aspects of the game only to be declined an end-game AGAIN.
I find it shocking how some of you live inside boxes and all what you see is whatever is inside your box. Grow bigger, and exit the box.
The whole debate of whether the player starts as a "Hero" or as a "Wealing" is meaningless in terms of Game Design. If your game design has "progression" then you are growing in power. You were weaker, now you are stronger. The way the game presents you in Lore, Content and Feeling of the game regardless of the game's game mechanic approach is another story.
Whether the game is based on Sandbox Elements, Themepark Elements or somewhere in between the game designer has the freedom to change how he approach such game concept. To be honest it doesn't matter in the end. What matters is the game mechanics. But since this is more of a "lore" or "immersion" debate than it is a game design debate it is all dependent on the writers of the game and their inter-working with the game designer.
I personally prefer to start as a weakling and earn my "hero" status. Even though I hate the whole concept but what I hate more is starting as a "hero" in the middle of chaos killing NPCs left and right. I don't like that. I like to be a weakling having my ass handed to me by a level 1 wolf. But in the end I am a group-centric player, hence my interest in MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online ROLE FREAKING PLAYING game.
Killing 20 creatures alone, is boring. Basing the game mechanics where I am too mobile and too strong to have any challenge, is boring. But to be weak in a hostile or even non-hostile area then venturing to a more hostile area with extreme difficulty and slowly progressing in power.... that sounds like a more fun and pleasant content approach.
Whether it is Sandbox or theme park. Everything can be of both world. You can play a Sandbox game where you are a Hero crushing everything around you while builing your sand castle being an overlord. Or you can play the same thing in a themepark. Same applies for both worlds being a weakling. You can be a weakling in a themepark game being destroyed by a level 1 wolf and also that applys to Sandbox.
I'm not a fan of extreme sandbox games but I HATE WITH PASSION extreme theme park games. I'm looking to a medium that is done right. The whole Sandbox and Themepark debate is an illusion, it doesn't matter. It is how the game make use of that philosphy and make it WORK. That's where the argument should go, how these game philosophy approaches should work for the game. Do they make sense? is the game immersive? is it challenging enough? is it fun? do I feel attached to the character and the world? does it feel like a dangerous world or is it too much of a theme park ride? is it too empty and boring?
I really am thinking about this now to and I think I have to say that on any bases no one can really be the bad guy in any MMO. I see these as the rules to being a bad guy in an MMO now.
1. No one telling you what to do
2. Able to attack any and every one
3. No money needed to get something
4. Allowed to go where ever with out having to do story
5. Able to destroy an area at will
(if you wish to add more go for it but these are minumum requirements.)
Well, all of them, but especially #3 could be countered with the npc's simply being more powerful than you. It's like a small time crook buying guns from a larger crook. He might steal them if he wasn't sure the attempt wouldn't end in his death.
Though I agree (and posted before) that the ability to wreak havoc is part of a bad guy mmo and why pvp-centric is the only way it could be done. An mmo could be designed so that you were up-n-coming in a crime family. You could assassinate your boss (npc's or other players) but if you weren't respected enough, the attempt would end in your own death.
It should be a pvp sort of game where you're fighting other crime families and cops... Might even infiltrate into npc policte forces as spies and double agents. Then, like I said, you can make an attempt on your boss (npc or other players) but it might get you killed. Attacker or Victim dying in such an attempt should result in a demotion in rank and loss of respect (so they couldn't immediately attack back).
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Being the "Hero" in the story seems fine. I guess it's a way to attract people and make them feel special. Still, I could do without all the "you are the chosen one!" thing.
Isn't there an MMORPG where you're like, just some new guy and people are like "hey, new guy, go make yourself useful and kill that <insert monster>" and people later in the story are still just, "oh, you, you're one of the <generic elite people>. We have X mission for you" and not "OMgzzz you are legendary hero master one-of-akind! our world needs your help!".
Meh. Still, in mass PvP games like Aika Global, you'd know exactly how you fare against everyone else. When it's your team of a hundred players against another hundred in a raid, you'd know what it's like to make one wrong move and be like cannon fodder.
Being the "Hero" in the story seems fine. I guess it's a way to attract people and make them feel special. Still, I could do without all the "you are the chosen one!" thing.
Isn't there an MMORPG where you're like, just some new guy and people are like "hey, new guy, go make yourself useful and kill that " and people later in the story are still just, "oh, you, you're one of the . We have X mission for you" and not "OMgzzz you are legendary hero master one-of-akind! our world needs your help!".
Games with faction reputation like WoW and RIFT (iirc) are pretty much exactly like that. Except they go from
"Who are you? I guess you could pump the water out of my basement." - neutral
"Yeah, I heard your name the other day I think. You can watch my kids." - friendly
"Oh yeah, people are talking about you. Want a job? Manager position open" - honored.
"Save us all, everyone says you can do the job." - revered
"I bow. I kneel. I submit" - exalted.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Being the "Hero" in the story seems fine. I guess it's a way to attract people and make them feel special. Still, I could do without all the "you are the chosen one!" thing.
Isn't there an MMORPG where you're like, just some new guy and people are like "hey, new guy, go make yourself useful and kill that " and people later in the story are still just, "oh, you, you're one of the . We have X mission for you" and not "OMgzzz you are legendary hero master one-of-akind! our world needs your help!".
Actually alot of vanilla WoW was like that. Everytime you came to a new quest hub it was like "Go and make yourself useful, newguy!"
I really am thinking about this now to and I think I have to say that on any bases no one can really be the bad guy in any MMO. I see these as the rules to being a bad guy in an MMO now.
1. No one telling you what to do
2. Able to attack any and every one
3. No money needed to get something
4. Allowed to go where ever with out having to do story
5. Able to destroy an area at will
(if you wish to add more go for it but these are minumum requirements.)
Well, all of them, but especially #3 could be countered with the npc's simply being more powerful than you. It's like a small time crook buying guns from a larger crook. He might steal them if he wasn't sure the attempt wouldn't end in his death.
Though I agree (and posted before) that the ability to wreak havoc is part of a bad guy mmo and why pvp-centric is the only way it could be done. An mmo could be designed so that you were up-n-coming in a crime family. You could assassinate your boss (npc's or other players) but if you weren't respected enough, the attempt would end in your own death.
It should be a pvp sort of game where you're fighting other crime families and cops... Might even infiltrate into npc policte forces as spies and double agents. Then, like I said, you can make an attempt on your boss (npc or other players) but it might get you killed. Attacker or Victim dying in such an attempt should result in a demotion in rank and loss of respect (so they couldn't immediately attack back).
Like I said these are just my rules to an MMO that would be a true be the bad guy type play style. And I agree to with what you said that's why I put "2. Able to attack any and every one" and that would be nice if they did something like that where you loose reputation for loosing or even worse getting yourself killed.
They can also do something where the reputation points come from fights and things you steal. And make the enviorment interactive so you can destroy buildings and so forth.
Comments
I'd love a game where I could be a thoroughly evil bastard, burning villages and slaughtering elves, hobbits etc., with no good playable races whatsoever.
ERrrrrrr, this has already been done. This is another case of mmos having done this, but the genre then moved away from it and now people want to go back.
Lineage 2
You aren't a hero, you're just some random guy/gal that decides to adventure and fight. Whether or not you're a hero is completely up to you. Villains will go around and pk people just because they can and will continue to do this until someone ('good people') comes by to stop them.
You can quite -literally- become a hero too through the Olympiad...although that's a whole other kettle of fish that I don't want to get in to.
The game is largely discounted because of how grind heavy it is, but that really doesn't change the fact that what you're talking about here has already been done.
Because no one wants to be destined to lose, you always want to be able to find a way to win.
I recall in WOW's cataclysm expansion the new water zone's main quest line ended up with me losing, the villian triumphed. While I was surprised and somewhat amused, I was sort of annoyed that the loss was predestined, hence I wasn't really happy with it.
As others have said, sandbox games don't have this issue, because the bulk of the content is against other players and you can chose to be evil or good.
In EVE if you like you can even do the PVE content (mission running) in an evil manner by running missions for pirate factions instead of the usual concorde supported good factions.
As for creating a standard themepark game with an "evil" path, I don't see that happening, its hard enough to make content to keep the entire player base happy, splitting it between a good and evil path just isn't going to be finanically practicial.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
themepark = sadists
sandbox = masochists
?
Here's the problem with this:
Players will ALWAYS try to find a way to not play fair. Developers will always design a mechanic that is -intended- to work one way, but players will find a way to abuse that mechanic to work in their favor.
That said: This has already been done. Aion. In Aion some dungeons are PvMvP. Meaning that one Elyos and one Asmodian group enters the same dungeon, on different paths. They can choose to intersect each other and fight each other, or they can choose to try to just rush through faster than the other group.
In this sense the hardest 'boss' fight is technically the other group.
Themed sandbox = full of win
You arent always the hero in every mmorpg. In Lineage 2 you start as a peasant make it to the soldier and if you make it ever to 2 classes at high lv you are noble.
Okay. I haven't played it and was just never that interested in it.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
One of the thing that attracted me to RPG period was the fact that I get to be the heroin. Call me fickle or whatever you want but I like being the knight in shining armor LOL.
What I don't like is how these MMO's portray the evil sides out to ALWAYS be ugly races instead of looking just as good as the good side. I have never actually played an evil character to max level, however I have een considering it. But I will most definately say I think just because you decide to go evil side doesn't mean you should be ugly. Maybe the sheep in wolves clothing kind of idea. Not every evil peron is ugly in looks so why should they be in fantasy? Other than people want to make their kids think that every evil being is ugly on the outside which is not true.
I think it might be for the same reason they turned Brother's Grim into lovely rose colored fairy tales instead of what the real story was to begin with LOL.
But I am all for change not against I just do and have always liked the being the good guy syndrome. Ugh that doesn't sound good when you call it what it really is does it? HAHAHAHA!!!!
I just like FUN MMORPG and rpg period you make one for me and I will play it if it is what I like doesn't matter if they are all good or all evil or both. If it's a good game I'll play it. Quality not quantity
Just don't leave out the fun crafting is all I ask and make it dull lol.
Left 4 Dead is probably one of the better examples of such a design in action, though the game is almost completely combat-oriented with no story or backdrop beyond the obvious setting.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I really am thinking about this now to and I think I have to say that on any bases no one can really be the bad guy in any MMO. I see these as the rules to being a bad guy in an MMO now.
1. No one telling you what to do
2. Able to attack any and every one
3. No money needed to get something
4. Allowed to go where ever with out having to do story
5. Able to destroy an area at will
(if you wish to add more go for it but these are minumum requirements.)
I don't agree. EQ2 already had some quests on the Freeport side that didn't make you feel a hero at all, often it was some dark or evil stuff you got to do, NPC's were scornful or looking down upon you and often it didn't make you feel the hero at all, badass at the most.
AoC had this thing where a lot of the NPC's were ungrateful bastards, often scorning or insulting or ridiculing you even when you had done the things they asked you to do. It was actually quite fun and refreshing after the bland quests in other MMO's that targeted you to be 'The Hero'. Which was funny, because the Destiny quests in AoC were designed to make you be 'The One' but the regular quests you were often just a schmuck or lowlife or only very grudgingly got some respect from the NPC's.
As for the OP question, ehm, hello? Look at all the movies, books and games where the main characters are the majority of the time off to do for the better of the world or their environment, and most times it has a happy ending because apparently that's what people like in their movies/books/games, a positive upside twist to the tail (maybe American movies have that need for a happy ending more than European movies). In MMO's your avatar replaces the main characters of movies or singleplayer games , so that heroic touch is with your adventuring in MMO's too because apparently research has shown that the majority of people like that archetype and meme.
The evil path is btw nothing more than the same, it's still playing the hero but then for the dark side, the anti-hero or most badass of the villains. Games like Fable has it, KOTOR too. In SWTOR your avatar can choose as evil a path as can be, in your quest choices you won't be limited to be on 1 path, the heroic good one, anymore.
As for whether you feel powerful or one of the grunts in the MMO world, that all depends upon the difficulty level of the challenges that the designers have implemented. In games like EQ you didn't feel like some superhero, but just one of many adventurers: your avatar still had powers, sure, but it needed them fully in the dangerous, harsh world it traveled in.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
"What if the end game story consisted of you getting your butt kicked and evil won. How would you feel ?"
I'd want my money back
NO!
i would be fascinated with this concept...what a great idea lol.
thinking about it more..I'd love it if a game was designed that you will likely FAIL in the end-game...that would be hilarious...only a FEW are worthy enough to complete the game...it could be insanely funny if you have to go before an EVIL lord only to find out your deeds didn't match up to his standards and you have to redo aspects of the game only to be declined an end-game AGAIN.
i'd buy it.
We're heroes in these MMOs? I thought I was just an errand boy running to fetch some new pelts.
I find it shocking how some of you live inside boxes and all what you see is whatever is inside your box. Grow bigger, and exit the box.
The whole debate of whether the player starts as a "Hero" or as a "Wealing" is meaningless in terms of Game Design. If your game design has "progression" then you are growing in power. You were weaker, now you are stronger. The way the game presents you in Lore, Content and Feeling of the game regardless of the game's game mechanic approach is another story.
Whether the game is based on Sandbox Elements, Themepark Elements or somewhere in between the game designer has the freedom to change how he approach such game concept. To be honest it doesn't matter in the end. What matters is the game mechanics. But since this is more of a "lore" or "immersion" debate than it is a game design debate it is all dependent on the writers of the game and their inter-working with the game designer.
I personally prefer to start as a weakling and earn my "hero" status. Even though I hate the whole concept but what I hate more is starting as a "hero" in the middle of chaos killing NPCs left and right. I don't like that. I like to be a weakling having my ass handed to me by a level 1 wolf. But in the end I am a group-centric player, hence my interest in MASSIVELY MULTIPLAYER online ROLE FREAKING PLAYING game.
Killing 20 creatures alone, is boring. Basing the game mechanics where I am too mobile and too strong to have any challenge, is boring. But to be weak in a hostile or even non-hostile area then venturing to a more hostile area with extreme difficulty and slowly progressing in power.... that sounds like a more fun and pleasant content approach.
Whether it is Sandbox or theme park. Everything can be of both world. You can play a Sandbox game where you are a Hero crushing everything around you while builing your sand castle being an overlord. Or you can play the same thing in a themepark. Same applies for both worlds being a weakling. You can be a weakling in a themepark game being destroyed by a level 1 wolf and also that applys to Sandbox.
I'm not a fan of extreme sandbox games but I HATE WITH PASSION extreme theme park games. I'm looking to a medium that is done right. The whole Sandbox and Themepark debate is an illusion, it doesn't matter. It is how the game make use of that philosphy and make it WORK. That's where the argument should go, how these game philosophy approaches should work for the game. Do they make sense? is the game immersive? is it challenging enough? is it fun? do I feel attached to the character and the world? does it feel like a dangerous world or is it too much of a theme park ride? is it too empty and boring?
But then again, that's a different debate.
Well, all of them, but especially #3 could be countered with the npc's simply being more powerful than you. It's like a small time crook buying guns from a larger crook. He might steal them if he wasn't sure the attempt wouldn't end in his death.
Though I agree (and posted before) that the ability to wreak havoc is part of a bad guy mmo and why pvp-centric is the only way it could be done. An mmo could be designed so that you were up-n-coming in a crime family. You could assassinate your boss (npc's or other players) but if you weren't respected enough, the attempt would end in your own death.
It should be a pvp sort of game where you're fighting other crime families and cops... Might even infiltrate into npc policte forces as spies and double agents. Then, like I said, you can make an attempt on your boss (npc or other players) but it might get you killed. Attacker or Victim dying in such an attempt should result in a demotion in rank and loss of respect (so they couldn't immediately attack back).
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Being the "Hero" in the story seems fine. I guess it's a way to attract people and make them feel special. Still, I could do without all the "you are the chosen one!" thing.
Isn't there an MMORPG where you're like, just some new guy and people are like "hey, new guy, go make yourself useful and kill that <insert monster>" and people later in the story are still just, "oh, you, you're one of the <generic elite people>. We have X mission for you" and not "OMgzzz you are legendary hero master one-of-akind! our world needs your help!".
Meh. Still, in mass PvP games like Aika Global, you'd know exactly how you fare against everyone else. When it's your team of a hundred players against another hundred in a raid, you'd know what it's like to make one wrong move and be like cannon fodder.
I'm more into the gameplay anyway, so I kinda stuck to Aika. http://aika.t3fun.com/Home/Home.aspx
<TBA>
Games with faction reputation like WoW and RIFT (iirc) are pretty much exactly like that. Except they go from
"Who are you? I guess you could pump the water out of my basement." - neutral
"Yeah, I heard your name the other day I think. You can watch my kids." - friendly
"Oh yeah, people are talking about you. Want a job? Manager position open" - honored.
"Save us all, everyone says you can do the job." - revered
"I bow. I kneel. I submit" - exalted.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Actually alot of vanilla WoW was like that. Everytime you came to a new quest hub it was like "Go and make yourself useful, newguy!"
Like I said these are just my rules to an MMO that would be a true be the bad guy type play style. And I agree to with what you said that's why I put "2. Able to attack any and every one" and that would be nice if they did something like that where you loose reputation for loosing or even worse getting yourself killed.
They can also do something where the reputation points come from fights and things you steal. And make the enviorment interactive so you can destroy buildings and so forth.
People aspire to do heroic, interesting things.
Being a shit-covered peasant just isn't interesting to most people.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
The peasant is played far more by alot more people than the hero.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.