While having advance classes might not be the norm it has worked pretty well for other games in the past, Dark age of Camelot for instance. While in that particular game the base classes only provided a set of skills and spells that were common for all advanced classes TOR will also feature class story arcs. Considering the ammount of story and VO required already, separating the classes further would be a costly solution.
I personally like the idea of advanced classes further being able to specialize your character from a common origin and story line. The lack of healers and tanks may be a problem but not at any fault of the advanced class system
Since the invention of the internet the worlds rotation has been solely propelled by English teachers rolling over in their graves.
While having advance classes might not be the norm it has worked pretty well for other games in the past, Dark age of Camelot for instance. While in that particular game the base classes only provided a set of skills and spells that were common for all advanced classes TOR will also feature class story arcs. Considering the ammount of story and VO required already, separating the classes further would be a costly solution.
I personally like the idea of advanced classes further being able to specialize your character from a common origin and story line. The lack of healers and tanks may be a problem but not at any fault of the advanced class system
Another game that did that was City of Heroes with the Arachnos Soldiers advancing into a Bane Spider or a Wolf Spider. Personally, I think allowing you to get a certain base set of abilities in the original class before making you decide on your advanced class is a dang good idea.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
As I understood it, it was orginally intended that the companions would be the solution to the lack of healers or tanks. Can't get a healer for your group, then everybody brings their healing companion; can't get a tank, then everybody brings a tanking companion. However, that concept was early on and I've gotten the impression that it has changed. The last I heard they were having difficulty balancing flashpoints for companions so now it's not even certain companions can be used in flashpoints any longer. Personally I hope that companions still have the ability to fill these rolls if necessary in pve. Also companions will not be used in pvp warzones. I'm sure we'll learn more as it gets closer to launch.
If there's anyone who can point me toward more recent info on the topic of companions and their use in flashpoints it would be appreciated. Anyway, this is how I've understood the information released on the issue thus far. If I have misunderstood this then my apologies.
Anyway due to player testing they decided to add an additional healing ac which they added to trooper/bounty hunter and tanking ac which they added to jedi consular/inquisitor. Actually I think player testing has caused the game to change quite a bit which can only be to the good. I mean how often have we heard of developers completely ignoring the issues brought up by players in closed beta? However, this is also what has caused the game to be pushed back from the original spring targeted launch, but it's better the game be pushed back so it can be further polished than to have them release an incomplete and unpolished game.
As I understood it, it was orginally intended that the companions would be the solution to the lack of healers or tanks. Can't get a healer for your group, then everybody brings their healing companion; can't get a tank, then everybody brings a tanking companion. However, that concept was early on and I've gotten the impression that it has changed. The last I heard they were having difficulty balancing flashpoints for companions so now it's not even certain companions can be used in flashpoints any longer. Personally I hope that companions still have the ability to fill these rolls if necessary in pve. Also companions will not be used in pvp warzones. I'm sure we'll learn more as it gets closer to launch.
If there's anyone who can point me toward more recent info on the topic of companions and their use in flashpoints it would be appreciated. Anyway, this is how I've understood the information released on the issue thus far. If I have misunderstood this then my apologies.
Anyway due to player testing they decided to add an additional healing ac which they added to trooper/bounty hunter and tanking ac which they added to jedi consular/inquisitor. Actually I think player testing has caused the game to change quite a bit which can only be to the good. I mean how often have we heard of developers completely ignoring the issues brought up by players in closed beta? However, this is also what has caused the game to be pushed back from the original spring targeted launch, but it's better the game be pushed back so it can be further polished than to have them release an incomplete and unpolished game.
currently companions are allowed in flashpoints, however they take up a group slot when in a flashpoint. so you could have 2 players each with a companion or 3 players and on of them brings a companion. in fact a couple of the fansites at the summit completed the black talon flashpoint by 2 manning with companions. this, is of course, still in flux and could change before launch.
Originally posted by whilan
Pretty sure they stated, for a nominal fee. You can switch to another type, like respec your points so that you're skills are more intune with a dps rather then a tank or even a healer. Provided the class/advance class allowed for such roles to begin with. Here is a short list of what each class/advance class can be. Provided you have to most likely return back to a trainer, undo the points for a fee then reaccolate them.
For example Lets say your a Trooper, and you've spec into tank role, Now assuming again that the healer abilities is not in the other advance class you could...return back to the trainer. Pay a fee, then respec so that your healing capabilities are much higher thus allowing you to become a healer.
Basically each class has before they advance at level 10 one of two ways they can go. If they pick one they get access to the one they picked (extreme left or extreme right) and the middle tree. If the tank role is in the left tree and the healer is in the middle they could mix and match these to either have a full on tank, full on healer or a combination of the two ala the paladin if they so choose. The only thing they can't do at the moment is get any skills from the far right tree.
They have also hinted at allowing you to switch advance classes (which would allow you access to the right tree but lose the left), but have said if they do this it will be very expensive. Thus making the choice more impactful. They are also looking into duel specs but that agian sounds like something that will not be in at launch...if ever.
maybe im missing something or misreading something here whilan, but you do know that each advanced class gets 3 trees right? and the shared tree, from what has been said, is more of passives to enhance your skills. and yeah, you can go to a npc on your capital world and pay him so you can respec your points.
Also just wanted to add, the reason for ACs wasn't for covering healer/tank shortages. thats what companions were orginally for and why they added more of the options to some of the ACs. the original reason for ACs was story. They felt 8 classes wasn't enough for a mmo but couldn't afford to do more individual class stories than that. so they made the ACs with the idea that they were essentially full classes.
Not sure if it was said but advanced classes will also have 2 talent specs, which I assume you will be able to reset somehow.
You have your main class, then 2 advanced classes. Once you choose your advanced class you have 2 skillsets to choose from plus your main class skillset for a total of 3 skillsets to choose skills from. And yes, you will be able to respec within your advanced class at a trainer at a cost, however you will not be able to respec from one advanced class to another advanced class. At least not at launch.
I actually meant switching on the fly with no cost. The ability to save 2 or 3 specs within 1 advanced class, where it also remembers your toolbar layout per spec.
It's a drag, a timesink (and money) to find a trainer .. reset your spec ... reselect all the new skills in the trees ... lay them out on your toolbar ... etc. Why force us to go through these delays?
This is exactly what I have been trying to get at. Take Dragon age, One click, you're warrior or mage or whatever. With one click we should be able to be whatever we want in our current class in TOR.
"It's a drag, a timesink (and money) to find a trainer .. reset your spec ... reselect all the new skills in the trees ... lay them out on your toolbar ... etc. Why force us to go through these delays?" AND ITS NOT FUN.
This is what BW says. They want to try to fix this problem, the lack of healer or tanks by introducing advance class and letting many class have healing trees.
I'm saying it is not going to fix the problem. Above post made a good point that if someone does not want to be a healer, then they won't no matter but.
I forgot to mention is that I could choose to heal if there was no option. Say my main is DD and then in advance if I could pick DD and healer, 2 advance classes and upon need I could change to healer with one click.
This is wrong in embarassing amounts.
For example: Advanced classes are just classes. Nothing else.
They do not cause any problem. They are just named in a confusing way so people think they're something special, but they really arent.
From level 1 to 10 you are a [starter] "class".
Then you choose your real, true, effective, actual "advanced class" (commonly abbreviated as "AC"). Each starter class splits into two different ACs.
You will keep that AC from level 10 to maxlevel (currently 50).
EVERYONE has an AC. Everyone but total newbies will have an AC. There is really nothing advanced about ACs. You may spend some hours in the game without an AC, but afterwards you will already have it and never again be without it.
And thats all. AC is your class. Nothing else. Its absolutely nothing special whatsoever and it especially doesnt cause or solves any problems.
Especially ACs themselves do NOT state if you're a healer, tank or damage dealer. They just give you further options. For example, many ACs offer a skilltree for either healer or tank (never both) that you can focus on to turn yourself into a full healer or a full tank. If you focus on other skilltrees, however, you WONT be tank or healer.
People who have played Lineage 2 will instantly recognize this concept. In Lineage 2, you for example start as a "Darkelf Mystic" (a generic spellcasting starter class), then you progress to either a Shillien Elder (a Healer) or a Spellhowler (a Mage) or a Phantom Summoner (a pet mage class). Nobody of the Lineage 2 gamers thinks of Shillen Elder, Spellhowler or Phantom Summoner as being anything "advanced". Its just the class you play.
my #1 question for BW is: how will you solve the healbot and tank shortage? this prompted Blizz to come up with the LFG tool, which singlehandedly destroyed the community. the thing is, there is no clear answer. this is what u get with the holy trinity and it's something players will have to deal with.
my #1 question for BW is: how will you solve the healbot and tank shortage? this prompted Blizz to come up with the LFG tool, which singlehandedly destroyed the community. the thing is, there is no clear answer. this is what u get with the holy trinity and it's something players will have to deal with.
Obviously I am not BW. But I see somewhat of a solution with companions. You will get between 3 and 10 companions as you level. Each will have their strenghts. So when you choose the one companion you can use at a time. You will choose the best for your spec. On top of that, you can gear the companion out as well as give them kits to change their trinity role.
So instead of the game forcing you to be a DPS spec to level the easiest, and most of the time the fastest. You can go with a pure Healer of Tank spec and level just as easy and fast because of your companion. They have even given each character a stat called Presence that you can adjust that will make your companion stronger, as well as increase your healing. Along with an affection system like DA:O that can also improve the help you get from companions. So "having" to re-spec isn't as big of a deal with the inclusion of companions. Your game play can be just as rewarding in TOR as a Tank and Healer as a DPS for solo leveling or group play.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
I actually meant switching on the fly with no cost. The ability to save 2 or 3 specs within 1 advanced class, where it also remembers your toolbar layout per spec.
It's a drag, a timesink (and money) to find a trainer .. reset your spec ... reselect all the new skills in the trees ... lay them out on your toolbar ... etc. Why force us to go through these delays?
This is exactly what I have been trying to get at. Take Dragon age, One click, you're warrior or mage or whatever. With one click we should be able to be whatever we want in our current class in TOR.
"It's a drag, a timesink (and money) to find a trainer .. reset your spec ... reselect all the new skills in the trees ... lay them out on your toolbar ... etc. Why force us to go through these delays?" AND ITS NOT FUN.
I haven't played DA2 yet, still finishing DAO. But does DA2 allow for instant class-switching and respecs? Because DAO sure doesn't.
Besides, your specialisation has meaning because there's time and money limits on it. Without time and money limits specialisations have no meaning.
Even Guild Wars, the game famed for free respecs, has moneysinks on respecs in the form of runes. If I was a healing priest I'd have a superior healing rune on my armor and I'd have a staff requiring healing prayers with likely health bonusses. Yet if I wanted to go prot payers I'd need to either get a new armor set with a superior protection rune or replace my superior healing rune. I'd also replace my staff with one requiring protection prayers and lengthening my enchantments by 20%. There was a minor cost in replacing my runes and weapon mods and a major cost in crafting an entire second set of armor. And sure, the cost wasn't much but we don't know the cost in SWToR either. It might be just as small as GW.
Runes, weapons and armor are fun exaclty because there's limits on them. You can't just have them all. There's progression involved.
Same thing for specialisations. You can't just have it all. There's limits and progression. With limits that are too high it's no fun anymore as you're trapped in one spec and mistakes are hashly punished but with limits too low it loses all meaning and ceases to be fun.
There have to be some time and money limits.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
I actually meant switching on the fly with no cost. The ability to save 2 or 3 specs within 1 advanced class, where it also remembers your toolbar layout per spec.
It's a drag, a timesink (and money) to find a trainer .. reset your spec ... reselect all the new skills in the trees ... lay them out on your toolbar ... etc. Why force us to go through these delays?
This is exactly what I have been trying to get at. Take Dragon age, One click, you're warrior or mage or whatever. With one click we should be able to be whatever we want in our current class in TOR.
"It's a drag, a timesink (and money) to find a trainer .. reset your spec ... reselect all the new skills in the trees ... lay them out on your toolbar ... etc. Why force us to go through these delays?" AND ITS NOT FUN.
I haven't played DA2 yet, still finishing DAO. But does DA2 allow for instant class-switching and respecs? Because DAO sure doesn't.
Besides, your specialisation has meaning because there's time and money limits on it. Without time and money limits specialisations have no meaning.
Even Guild Wars, the game famed for free respecs, has moneysinks on respecs in the form of runes. If I was a healing priest I'd have a superior healing rune on my armor and I'd have a staff requiring healing prayers with likely health bonusses. Yet if I wanted to go prot payers I'd need to either get a new armor set with a superior protection rune or replace my superior healing rune. I'd also replace my staff with one requiring protection prayers and lengthening my enchantments by 20%. There was a minor cost in replacing my runes and weapon mods and a major cost in crafting an entire second set of armor. And sure, the cost wasn't much but we don't know the cost in SWToR either. It might be just as small as GW.
Runes, weapons and armor are fun exaclty because there's limits on them. You can't just have them all. There's progression involved.
Same thing for specialisations. You can't just have it all. There's limits and progression. With limits that are too high it's no fun anymore as you're trapped in one spec and mistakes are hashly punished but with limits too low it loses all meaning and ceases to be fun.
There have to be some time and money limits.
Allright I agree. How about we have to go to trainer but it should be free maybe? We should be able to dab in all the skills, experiment will all the skills, all the trees and see what we like and how we want to play. When there is timesink involved it's just not fun.
Allright I agree. How about we have to go to trainer but it should be free maybe? We should be able to dab in all the skills, experiment will all the skills, all the trees and see what we like and how we want to play. When there is timesink involved it's just not fun.
I think we'll have to wait and see.
I hope they do give us ample oppertunity to experiment with skills, specialisations as well as providing people who want to fill multiple roles with a relatively pain-free process of doing so.
Seeing some of Bioware's posts on experimentation I think they do understand that as well. Their whole for the first 10 levels you're a basic class shows that they want you to experiment a bit before finalising your decision on the role you want to fill. They could have also just made you choose an 'advanced' class from level one and have each pair just share a story without ever giving us that option, would have probably been easier on their part as they wouldn't have to deal with a shared tree for balancing.
A dev post on death penalties also explained why they wouldn't implement large death penalties. Because this would prevent people from experimenting with different specialisation, abilities and roles. If they're tweaking their death penalty system to allow this then I think ( at least I hope ) they're smart enough to tweak their respec system along side it. Wouldn't be much use if death penalties allow for experimentation but actual experiments cost the life of your firstborn child to set up.
Last I read on this on the official forums their stance seemed to be as follows
Changing advanced classes will likely be possible but at a heavy cost and possibly a time limit. Not sure yet though.
Changing specs will likely bear a very low cost and is always possible.
But the game is still in development and they're still working on this, so we'll have to wait for either the game to come out or them giving an update which finalises these details.
We are the bunny. Resistance is futile. ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\ ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o) (")("),,(")("),(")(")
My two cents is that respec'ing wthin your advanced class is neccessary so that you can undo any mistakes you have made. Respec'ing in TOR isn't meant for switching builds so that you can hop between tanking/healing/dps easily. If you're lacking a tank or healer in TOR that's what companions are for. I personally agree with BW, respec'ing should not be too easy and should carry a cost and respec'ing between advanced classes should be either impossible or at least very costly.
If i understood their system well in every main class you can unfold to any type or role with your advanced classes. That mean a jedi can go for all the healer/tank/dps role when they become advanced. I think they did that so that if you really want to play a jedi for exemple and nothing else as it will most likely be for that ip, you are not obliged to be a dd for exemple, but can be healer or tank as well. You can be all those roles as a jedi, you just have to choose which role you like when make your choices during character progression.
If i'm wrong just tell me, but i think i got it right.
I think you hit the nail pretty squarely on the head except that from all surveys done so far, as well as a little of the testing data released, it is looking like a pretty good division of classes is resulting. Amazingly enough, not everyone wants to be a Jedi or a Sith for that matter.
Because Jedi and Sith here are not all conquering. Which is a massive plus.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
I haven't played DA2 yet, still finishing DAO. But does DA2 allow for instant class-switching and respecs? Because DAO sure doesn't.
Well no, DA2 doesnt allow any class-switching either.
DAO allows respec with the maybe most popular fan addon, which is, in my opinion, mandatory. The DA rulesystem is simply a system where every decision counts, so being able to fix wrong decisions is vital.
Last I read on this on the official forums their stance seemed to be as follows
Changing advanced classes will likely be possible but at a heavy cost and possibly a time limit. Not sure yet though.
Changing specs will likely bear a very low cost and is always possible.
But the game is still in development and they're still working on this, so we'll have to wait for either the game to come out or them giving an update which finalises these details.
I would love to find the exact dev statement I read recently about this. Sadly I havent saved the link to it. But I dont remember either the "likely" for advanced class change nor the "very low cost" for the reskill.
Reskill is confirmed. Ingame money cost is confirmed. Level dependent cost is confirmed. "Very low cost" ? Nope. And if you reskill out of your current focus, i.e. go damage dealer from healing specialization, you wont be very effective at it, unless you get the gear for it. And you'll have to arrange all your quickbars.
And for advanced class sibling change, he only said they would think about it. He mentioned a number of options, but he mentioned no "likely".
Agree with a vast majority here,, but in all seriousness this game is still a hell of a long way from being put on shelves.. the fact that rurmors and such are out is funny... people will allways have opions..As for me I really dont care about advance class at all semes a waste to me idk just imo.. Bioware has stated imsersion in playing your toon along with a story driven arc idk, Havin to worrie about the right or wrong advance class seemes to be a waste, and probly trun into WoW or Rift with a bunch of cookie cutter specs that you be expected to use if you want tobe a part of anything grp wise./...Waste of time...(so much for it being your toon now) Hoping for all the best, but what I really hope for is a meanigfull endgame where I dont log on todo the same ol things I have been doing from the start but sumpin that is impactfull to my toon not just farming rep or instance grinds for badges or whatever. Just my opion could be wrong...
Ok, for starters, the game hasn’t been released, so much is still undecided. In my opinion, Bioware is taking a similar tact to older games to keep players from changing roles/specs every 2 seconds. They want player choice to have meaning. Thinking back to UO and Galaxies, to change a skill you had to essentially train one skill down for another to go up. That was a bit harsh, but nonetheless your choice had some meaning. Now, I am not suggesting that they put a skill system like that in place, but in all honesty, giving someone a tool to negate choice won’t solve the problem of “lack of”.
*Opinion* The lack of tanks and healers is due to society and the game mechanics, neither of which Bioware will completely fix in their game. When a dungeon run fails, who does the group blame? Dps? Rarely. Normally, it is the tank or healer that is to blame. The tanks and healers usually have to understand an encounter to much greater detail than the dps. Having played all 3 roles, on days where I just wanted to run a few instances and relax, I wasn’t thinking healer or tank.
The only way I see the problem negating itself is if the companions can fill a large role beyond simple duties. In that case, if you are missing a tank or healer, then you can fill with a companion. That is my hope.
In closing, people just want to play the game the way they want. Having been “pigeon holed” into healing/tanking, I don’t feel selfish for playing a video game the way I want. Seriously, if I feel like healing, I will heal.
The purpose of Advanced Classes isn't to prevent tank or healer shortages. They're there for offering different gameplay styles and customisation.
This is the way I understood it as well. Many players were complaining about the lack of options in the classes on the TOR website . Juggernaughts wanted to DPS, Assasins wanted to tank etc.etc. So Bioware opened it up.
Comments
While having advance classes might not be the norm it has worked pretty well for other games in the past, Dark age of Camelot for instance. While in that particular game the base classes only provided a set of skills and spells that were common for all advanced classes TOR will also feature class story arcs. Considering the ammount of story and VO required already, separating the classes further would be a costly solution.
I personally like the idea of advanced classes further being able to specialize your character from a common origin and story line. The lack of healers and tanks may be a problem but not at any fault of the advanced class system
Since the invention of the internet the worlds rotation has been solely propelled by English teachers rolling over in their graves.
MMO player since Meridian 59
Another game that did that was City of Heroes with the Arachnos Soldiers advancing into a Bane Spider or a Wolf Spider. Personally, I think allowing you to get a certain base set of abilities in the original class before making you decide on your advanced class is a dang good idea.
"If half of what you tell me is a lie, how can I believe any of it?"
Personally speaking, I don't see an issue as I will level up 3 (that's right THREE) female troopers to cover every AC.
Then dabble in some Jedi class/AC stuff.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
As I understood it, it was orginally intended that the companions would be the solution to the lack of healers or tanks. Can't get a healer for your group, then everybody brings their healing companion; can't get a tank, then everybody brings a tanking companion. However, that concept was early on and I've gotten the impression that it has changed. The last I heard they were having difficulty balancing flashpoints for companions so now it's not even certain companions can be used in flashpoints any longer. Personally I hope that companions still have the ability to fill these rolls if necessary in pve. Also companions will not be used in pvp warzones. I'm sure we'll learn more as it gets closer to launch.
If there's anyone who can point me toward more recent info on the topic of companions and their use in flashpoints it would be appreciated. Anyway, this is how I've understood the information released on the issue thus far. If I have misunderstood this then my apologies.
Anyway due to player testing they decided to add an additional healing ac which they added to trooper/bounty hunter and tanking ac which they added to jedi consular/inquisitor. Actually I think player testing has caused the game to change quite a bit which can only be to the good. I mean how often have we heard of developers completely ignoring the issues brought up by players in closed beta? However, this is also what has caused the game to be pushed back from the original spring targeted launch, but it's better the game be pushed back so it can be further polished than to have them release an incomplete and unpolished game.
Not sure if it was said but advanced classes will also have 2 talent specs, which I assume you will be able to reset somehow.
currently companions are allowed in flashpoints, however they take up a group slot when in a flashpoint. so you could have 2 players each with a companion or 3 players and on of them brings a companion. in fact a couple of the fansites at the summit completed the black talon flashpoint by 2 manning with companions. this, is of course, still in flux and could change before launch.
maybe im missing something or misreading something here whilan, but you do know that each advanced class gets 3 trees right? and the shared tree, from what has been said, is more of passives to enhance your skills. and yeah, you can go to a npc on your capital world and pay him so you can respec your points.
Also just wanted to add, the reason for ACs wasn't for covering healer/tank shortages. thats what companions were orginally for and why they added more of the options to some of the ACs. the original reason for ACs was story. They felt 8 classes wasn't enough for a mmo but couldn't afford to do more individual class stories than that. so they made the ACs with the idea that they were essentially full classes.
You have your main class, then 2 advanced classes. Once you choose your advanced class you have 2 skillsets to choose from plus your main class skillset for a total of 3 skillsets to choose skills from. And yes, you will be able to respec within your advanced class at a trainer at a cost, however you will not be able to respec from one advanced class to another advanced class. At least not at launch.
This is exactly what I have been trying to get at. Take Dragon age, One click, you're warrior or mage or whatever. With one click we should be able to be whatever we want in our current class in TOR.
"It's a drag, a timesink (and money) to find a trainer .. reset your spec ... reselect all the new skills in the trees ... lay them out on your toolbar ... etc. Why force us to go through these delays?" AND ITS NOT FUN.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
Exactly. People only hear what they want to hear. The Trooper or Smuggler is the name of the story, Vanguard or Scoundrel is the name of the class.
my #1 question for BW is: how will you solve the healbot and tank shortage? this prompted Blizz to come up with the LFG tool, which singlehandedly destroyed the community. the thing is, there is no clear answer. this is what u get with the holy trinity and it's something players will have to deal with.
Obviously I am not BW.
But I see somewhat of a solution with companions. You will get between 3 and 10 companions as you level. Each will have their strenghts. So when you choose the one companion you can use at a time. You will choose the best for your spec. On top of that, you can gear the companion out as well as give them kits to change their trinity role.
So instead of the game forcing you to be a DPS spec to level the easiest, and most of the time the fastest. You can go with a pure Healer of Tank spec and level just as easy and fast because of your companion. They have even given each character a stat called Presence that you can adjust that will make your companion stronger, as well as increase your healing. Along with an affection system like DA:O that can also improve the help you get from companions. So "having" to re-spec isn't as big of a deal with the inclusion of companions. Your game play can be just as rewarding in TOR as a Tank and Healer as a DPS for solo leveling or group play.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
I haven't played DA2 yet, still finishing DAO. But does DA2 allow for instant class-switching and respecs? Because DAO sure doesn't.
Besides, your specialisation has meaning because there's time and money limits on it. Without time and money limits specialisations have no meaning.
Even Guild Wars, the game famed for free respecs, has moneysinks on respecs in the form of runes. If I was a healing priest I'd have a superior healing rune on my armor and I'd have a staff requiring healing prayers with likely health bonusses. Yet if I wanted to go prot payers I'd need to either get a new armor set with a superior protection rune or replace my superior healing rune. I'd also replace my staff with one requiring protection prayers and lengthening my enchantments by 20%. There was a minor cost in replacing my runes and weapon mods and a major cost in crafting an entire second set of armor. And sure, the cost wasn't much but we don't know the cost in SWToR either. It might be just as small as GW.
Runes, weapons and armor are fun exaclty because there's limits on them. You can't just have them all. There's progression involved.
Same thing for specialisations. You can't just have it all. There's limits and progression. With limits that are too high it's no fun anymore as you're trapped in one spec and mistakes are hashly punished but with limits too low it loses all meaning and ceases to be fun.
There have to be some time and money limits.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
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Allright I agree. How about we have to go to trainer but it should be free maybe? We should be able to dab in all the skills, experiment will all the skills, all the trees and see what we like and how we want to play. When there is timesink involved it's just not fun.
Guild Wars 2's 50 minutes game play video:
http://n4g.com/news/592585/guild-wars-2-50-minutes-of-pure-gameplay
Everything We Know about GW2:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/287180/page/1
I think we'll have to wait and see.
I hope they do give us ample oppertunity to experiment with skills, specialisations as well as providing people who want to fill multiple roles with a relatively pain-free process of doing so.
Seeing some of Bioware's posts on experimentation I think they do understand that as well. Their whole for the first 10 levels you're a basic class shows that they want you to experiment a bit before finalising your decision on the role you want to fill. They could have also just made you choose an 'advanced' class from level one and have each pair just share a story without ever giving us that option, would have probably been easier on their part as they wouldn't have to deal with a shared tree for balancing.
A dev post on death penalties also explained why they wouldn't implement large death penalties. Because this would prevent people from experimenting with different specialisation, abilities and roles. If they're tweaking their death penalty system to allow this then I think ( at least I hope ) they're smart enough to tweak their respec system along side it. Wouldn't be much use if death penalties allow for experimentation but actual experiments cost the life of your firstborn child to set up.
Last I read on this on the official forums their stance seemed to be as follows
Changing advanced classes will likely be possible but at a heavy cost and possibly a time limit. Not sure yet though.
Changing specs will likely bear a very low cost and is always possible.
But the game is still in development and they're still working on this, so we'll have to wait for either the game to come out or them giving an update which finalises these details.
We are the bunny.
Resistance is futile.
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My two cents is that respec'ing wthin your advanced class is neccessary so that you can undo any mistakes you have made. Respec'ing in TOR isn't meant for switching builds so that you can hop between tanking/healing/dps easily. If you're lacking a tank or healer in TOR that's what companions are for. I personally agree with BW, respec'ing should not be too easy and should carry a cost and respec'ing between advanced classes should be either impossible or at least very costly.
Because Jedi and Sith here are not all conquering. Which is a massive plus.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Which however was completely wrong.
They are the solution to soloing.
Well no, DA2 doesnt allow any class-switching either.
DAO allows respec with the maybe most popular fan addon, which is, in my opinion, mandatory. The DA rulesystem is simply a system where every decision counts, so being able to fix wrong decisions is vital.
I would love to find the exact dev statement I read recently about this. Sadly I havent saved the link to it. But I dont remember either the "likely" for advanced class change nor the "very low cost" for the reskill.
Reskill is confirmed. Ingame money cost is confirmed. Level dependent cost is confirmed. "Very low cost" ? Nope. And if you reskill out of your current focus, i.e. go damage dealer from healing specialization, you wont be very effective at it, unless you get the gear for it. And you'll have to arrange all your quickbars.
And for advanced class sibling change, he only said they would think about it. He mentioned a number of options, but he mentioned no "likely".
Agree with a vast majority here,, but in all seriousness this game is still a hell of a long way from being put on shelves.. the fact that rurmors and such are out is funny... people will allways have opions..As for me I really dont care about advance class at all semes a waste to me idk just imo.. Bioware has stated imsersion in playing your toon along with a story driven arc idk, Havin to worrie about the right or wrong advance class seemes to be a waste, and probly trun into WoW or Rift with a bunch of cookie cutter specs that you be expected to use if you want tobe a part of anything grp wise./...Waste of time...(so much for it being your toon now) Hoping for all the best, but what I really hope for is a meanigfull endgame where I dont log on todo the same ol things I have been doing from the start but sumpin that is impactfull to my toon not just farming rep or instance grinds for badges or whatever. Just my opion could be wrong...
Ok, for starters, the game hasn’t been released, so much is still undecided. In my opinion, Bioware is taking a similar tact to older games to keep players from changing roles/specs every 2 seconds. They want player choice to have meaning. Thinking back to UO and Galaxies, to change a skill you had to essentially train one skill down for another to go up. That was a bit harsh, but nonetheless your choice had some meaning. Now, I am not suggesting that they put a skill system like that in place, but in all honesty, giving someone a tool to negate choice won’t solve the problem of “lack of”.
*Opinion* The lack of tanks and healers is due to society and the game mechanics, neither of which Bioware will completely fix in their game. When a dungeon run fails, who does the group blame? Dps? Rarely. Normally, it is the tank or healer that is to blame. The tanks and healers usually have to understand an encounter to much greater detail than the dps. Having played all 3 roles, on days where I just wanted to run a few instances and relax, I wasn’t thinking healer or tank.
The only way I see the problem negating itself is if the companions can fill a large role beyond simple duties. In that case, if you are missing a tank or healer, then you can fill with a companion. That is my hope.
In closing, people just want to play the game the way they want. Having been “pigeon holed” into healing/tanking, I don’t feel selfish for playing a video game the way I want. Seriously, if I feel like healing, I will heal.
keep in mind that you will have the Companions, and if you take a healer, you will have a tanking companion to help you.
The purpose of Advanced Classes isn't to prevent tank or healer shortages. They're there for offering different gameplay styles and customisation.
This is the way I understood it as well. Many players were complaining about the lack of options in the classes on the TOR website . Juggernaughts wanted to DPS, Assasins wanted to tank etc.etc. So Bioware opened it up.
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