I think if people would just judge things for themselves, waiting for an up and coming mmorpg would go a lot smoother. As i said, for me, TOR's combat looks like exactly what i expected and wanted. For everyone else, if you can't find anything that TOR will offer as being something you may like or be interested in, then why even have a comment on it.
For people that don't like this title, isn't there another game you can go and discuss. i mean, it's not like mmo gamers have to play every new title that comes out.
I think if people would just judge things for themselves, waiting for an up and coming mmorpg would go a lot smoother. As i said, for me, TOR's combat looks like exactly what i expected and wanted. For everyone else, if you can't find anything that TOR will offer as being something you may like yor be interested in, then why even have a coment on it.
For people that don't like this title, isn't there another game you can go and discuss. i mean, it's not like mmo gamers have to play every new title that comes out.
They have to comment on it, its all they have. In the end they'll still buy the game. The combat looks good, the game all around is much improved of just about everything on the market, and while there are things about this game I myself don't like particularly, I'm not going to try to fool myself. I've already decided I'm going to play.
When the game launches we won't be at a loss for players, and all of this whining won't mean anything then. Its only bothersome now because we can't get in game yet.
These long drawn out threads over love and hate of what the game is and what the game should be always make me smile. Since at the end of the day some of you will walk away with shattered pride while others with self gratifcation and dignification; but in the end the game will remain what it is a story driven MMO with WoW like qualites and traditionall MMO combat, take it or leave it. This combat isn't for everyone, just as EVEs mouse driven piolting system isn't for eveyone, but beggers can't be choosers right. We find what we like and if we can't we just move on.
Personaly i still play my TurboGraphics from time to time because it has fun games that time will never erode. Many great games have stood the test of time, just because they are not innovative dosn't mean they arn't great. Most games out are just a variation of something that came before it with small addtions here and there but we buy them and play them. Why? Because they are fun, i mean isn't that why we all play (remember fun is subjective so challeging games can be fun to some, while games that just kill time are fun to others). So lets just try to enjoy the SWTOR for what it is please or if you don't like it you can state your opinon but no need to go all out and wage war on it, as it will release wheather you like it or not.... Until next time enjoy your forum posting,jumping, spaming, trolling, watching, or whatever it is that brings you here.
We go trough life with many yet there is a time we must walk our path alone.
Meh, i still play KOTOR through again every year or two and outside of story it's gameplay is terrible by todays standards. TOR is going to have to be a horrid game for me not to enjoy it for at least a few months. Sure it might not be the one that keeps me playing for years to come but i stopped expecting more than a few months for my £30 years ago, after all it's barely enough to cover going out for dinner.
Well there you go, forums, where everyone thinks they are right or that they are oh so important. No you're not, I'm not either. Sure you can share your oppinion and noone has any right to tell you you are wrong, but you don't have that privilege either. When you come off like a raving lunatinc saying that your world is law it just makes you look dumb.
I looked at the vids and didn't see anything wrong with them. Also have no problem with the combat system being the target/hotbar skill press type. People should really stop assuming that just because they don't like a style of combat noone does. Some people might hate having to aim or twitch react to something while playing an mmorpg or are not good at it, so they prefer the target/hotbar. Who know? There are probably alot of different reasons for wanting one style or another.
Also, a thing that I find funny, is that some of the people complaining that it uses a similar combat system to most current mmo's, want to turn every new mmo into a manual target, twitch dodging game, which would basically bring the same "problem". All new mmo's having the same style of combat, but one they like. Suddenly that's ok.
So it all comes down to some people like this style of combat and see nothing wrong with it and some don't like it. Both camps, deal with it.
I for one am happy that some mmo's stick to the old formula of combat while others try something new. That way I have choices, I'm not limited to only tab target/hotbar games, nor am I limited to only manual aim/twitch reaction games.
SWTOR will be a massive hit and sadly no matter of Dissapointment will change that.
So slug away it will make not difference, the game will be here to stay when it releases and the GW2 crew must be in utter dispair that all their efforts will have gone to waste.
I would so take that bet. Unless Bioware is holding out on us, I'm going to say, this game isn't going to be nearly as huge as all that. Maybe even not much bigger than SWG or LOTRO, if at all. If all this hype leads to too much disappointment, it might even do worse.
Just seems naive that some think this has anything to do with GW2, other than the contrast of looking at what they've show us, and seeing a much higher general standard of quality from Arena. I'm no fan of GW2. It looks like the much healthier horse to bet on, but I'd love to see both MMOs turn out to be great games that do well. I have no reason to be biased. I'm just skeptical, after seeing gameplay vids of SWTOR. The most epic trailers ever just aren't going to sell it, if the gameplay doesn't hold up.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I for one am going to play this game no matter what.
If you take a look at how many people posted on this topic, you can see that its not very many people. Theres a high post count but I'm sure there are some multiple posts by the same people. If no one in this forum subscribed to SWTOR, I'm pretty sure Bioware wouldnt miss anyone here.
Well there you go, forums, where everyone thinks they are right or that they are oh so important. No you're not, I'm not either. Sure you can share your oppinion and noone has any right to tell you you are wrong, but you don't have that privilege either. When you come off like a raving lunatinc saying that your world is law it just makes you look dumb.
I looked at the vids and didn't see anything wrong with them. Also have no problem with the combat system being the target/hotbar skill press type. People should really stop assuming that just because they don't like a style of combat noone does. Some people might hate having to aim or twitch react to something while playing an mmorpg or are not good at it, so they prefer the target/hotbar. Who know? There are probably alot of different reasons for wanting one style or another.
Also, a thing that I find funny, is that some of the people complaining that it uses a similar combat system to most current mmo's, want to turn every new mmo into a manual target, twitch dodging game, which would basically bring the same "problem". All new mmo's having the same style of combat, but one they like. Suddenly that's ok.
So it all comes down to some people like this style of combat and see nothing wrong with it and some don't like it. Both camps, deal with it.
I for one am happy that some mmo's stick to the old formula of combat while others try something new. That way I have choices, I'm not limited to only tab target/hotbar games, nor am I limited to only manual aim/twitch reaction games.
They have preached FOREVER about how their combat was so great and how it was going to be "heroric star wars combat that is authenthic like the movies", when in truth it looks horrible.
I think the vast silent majority is fed up with it, but technology of the past has not allowed before for MMOs to mix exciting combat with tactical rpg combat due to lag, engine infastructure and so on. Now games like TERA, Blade and Soul, GW2 and Vindictus are rolling around and changing that perception that it does not have to be stale.
People don't want to see the game fail, because most of us know from experience that if it launches with bad combat, get a bad rep, bad reviews, then it will always suffer from it. Most of us who have been here a long time knows what happens, and several of us have +10 years of MMO experience, so we have every right to be fed up.
Bioware managed to make a great combat system in Mass Effect 2, that had exciting action AND was based on weapon and character stats.
I was a bit turned off by how the demonstrator was playing it: standing in melee range firing a pistol in mob's faces. But it seemed ok, to me, lookswise.
They have preached FOREVER about how their combat was so great and how it was going to be "heroric star wars combat that is authenthic like the movies", when in truth it looks horrible.
You make it sound like they promised action-based combat akin to God of War or something. When in reality what they were referring to was the animations (IE: saber clashes and things of that nature).
"in truth it looks horrible" there's no universal to truth to such a claim. Some like it and some don't, some like the animations some don't, there's no actual truth to any of this though.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well there you go, forums, where everyone thinks they are right or that they are oh so important. No you're not, I'm not either. Sure you can share your oppinion and noone has any right to tell you you are wrong, but you don't have that privilege either. When you come off like a raving lunatinc saying that your world is law it just makes you look dumb.
I looked at the vids and didn't see anything wrong with them. Also have no problem with the combat system being the target/hotbar skill press type. People should really stop assuming that just because they don't like a style of combat noone does. Some people might hate having to aim or twitch react to something while playing an mmorpg or are not good at it, so they prefer the target/hotbar. Who know? There are probably alot of different reasons for wanting one style or another.
Also, a thing that I find funny, is that some of the people complaining that it uses a similar combat system to most current mmo's, want to turn every new mmo into a manual target, twitch dodging game, which would basically bring the same "problem". All new mmo's having the same style of combat, but one they like. Suddenly that's ok.
So it all comes down to some people like this style of combat and see nothing wrong with it and some don't like it. Both camps, deal with it.
I for one am happy that some mmo's stick to the old formula of combat while others try something new. That way I have choices, I'm not limited to only tab target/hotbar games, nor am I limited to only manual aim/twitch reaction games.
They have preached FOREVER about how their combat was so great and how it was going to be "heroric star wars combat that is authenthic like the movies", when in truth it looks horrible.
I think the vast silent majority is fed up with it, but technology of the past has not allowed before for MMOs to mix exciting combat with tactical rpg combat due to lag, engine infastructure and so on. Now games like TERA, Blade and Soul, GW2 and Vindictus are rolling around and changing that perception that it does not have to be stale.
People don't want to see the game fail, because most of us know from experience that if it launches with bad combat, get a bad rep, bad reviews, then it will always suffer from it. Most of us who have been here a long time knows what happens, and several of us have +10 years of MMO experience, so we have every right to be fed up.
Bioware managed to make a great combat system in Mass Effect 2, that had exciting action AND was based on weapon and character stats.
Wrong with the majority part, it's a minority. Minorities aren't vast. What you are saying is your opinion which is fine for your opinion. You aren't going to influence anyone who wants to think for themselves though. Things will play out and we'll see how popular it is. The thing about it is, the information I've been given so far along with the things I've seen and the things I've heard, lead me to believe that I will enjoy the game and not care what anyone else has to say.
TOR is becoming the new WoW on here, people bash it left and right. WoW is good for what it does right, sure it used to be better but that's the past. Judge if you want, but it won't make a difference to me.
Well there you go, forums, where everyone thinks they are right or that they are oh so important. No you're not, I'm not either. Sure you can share your oppinion and noone has any right to tell you you are wrong, but you don't have that privilege either. When you come off like a raving lunatinc saying that your world is law it just makes you look dumb.
I looked at the vids and didn't see anything wrong with them. Also have no problem with the combat system being the target/hotbar skill press type. People should really stop assuming that just because they don't like a style of combat noone does. Some people might hate having to aim or twitch react to something while playing an mmorpg or are not good at it, so they prefer the target/hotbar. Who know? There are probably alot of different reasons for wanting one style or another.
Also, a thing that I find funny, is that some of the people complaining that it uses a similar combat system to most current mmo's, want to turn every new mmo into a manual target, twitch dodging game, which would basically bring the same "problem". All new mmo's having the same style of combat, but one they like. Suddenly that's ok.
So it all comes down to some people like this style of combat and see nothing wrong with it and some don't like it. Both camps, deal with it.
I for one am happy that some mmo's stick to the old formula of combat while others try something new. That way I have choices, I'm not limited to only tab target/hotbar games, nor am I limited to only manual aim/twitch reaction games.
They have preached FOREVER about how their combat was so great and how it was going to be "heroric star wars combat that is authenthic like the movies", when in truth it looks horrible.
I think the vast silent majority is fed up with it, but technology of the past has not allowed before for MMOs to mix exciting combat with tactical rpg combat due to lag, engine infastructure and so on. Now games like TERA, Blade and Soul, GW2 and Vindictus are rolling around and changing that perception that it does not have to be stale.
People don't want to see the game fail, because most of us know from experience that if it launches with bad combat, get a bad rep, bad reviews, then it will always suffer from it. Most of us who have been here a long time knows what happens, and several of us have +10 years of MMO experience, so we have every right to be fed up.
Bioware managed to make a great combat system in Mass Effect 2, that had exciting action AND was based on weapon and character stats.
I'm not the kind of guy to say lol, but I did laugh at this emphatically. You have the right to be fed up? Sure, you have the right to not play the game, but being fed up? What are you going to do about it? The masses can't do anything other then make a stand and choose not to buy the game, and that isn't happening because everyone who's played the game has given BioWare pretty good marks overall.
Lets try and be mindful here by learning a bit about perspective. BioWare has opened up testing for months -- MONTHS now. They've had demos, special industry-only events, fan events, and more, and with everything being overly positive by those that are playing, if they are somehow... in ALL of these situations, getting the wrong idea on what they're doing.... then its the PLAYERS fault.
Out of all the reviews I can think of only 1 major publication that wasn't impressed, with a caveat that they would still buy the game. Thats kind of confusing when they have some complaints but still give the game a "buy this game" approval rating.
Aside from that, your opinion that the combat looks horrible is just that - your opinion, and I would add that its safe to say the combat, both space and ground actually DOES look like the movies. (more 1 - 3 than 4 - 6). But I would say its much more in tune to what SW combat looks like than what SWG had in place of combat, and its definitely more star wars than any other MMO out there.
Well there you go, forums, where everyone thinks they are right or that they are oh so important. No you're not, I'm not either. Sure you can share your oppinion and noone has any right to tell you you are wrong, but you don't have that privilege either. When you come off like a raving lunatinc saying that your world is law it just makes you look dumb.
I looked at the vids and didn't see anything wrong with them. Also have no problem with the combat system being the target/hotbar skill press type. People should really stop assuming that just because they don't like a style of combat noone does. Some people might hate having to aim or twitch react to something while playing an mmorpg or are not good at it, so they prefer the target/hotbar. Who know? There are probably alot of different reasons for wanting one style or another.
Also, a thing that I find funny, is that some of the people complaining that it uses a similar combat system to most current mmo's, want to turn every new mmo into a manual target, twitch dodging game, which would basically bring the same "problem". All new mmo's having the same style of combat, but one they like. Suddenly that's ok.
So it all comes down to some people like this style of combat and see nothing wrong with it and some don't like it. Both camps, deal with it.
I for one am happy that some mmo's stick to the old formula of combat while others try something new. That way I have choices, I'm not limited to only tab target/hotbar games, nor am I limited to only manual aim/twitch reaction games.
They have preached FOREVER about how their combat was so great and how it was going to be "heroric star wars combat that is authenthic like the movies", when in truth it looks horrible.
I think the vast silent majority is fed up with it, but technology of the past has not allowed before for MMOs to mix exciting combat with tactical rpg combat due to lag, engine infastructure and so on. Now games like TERA, Blade and Soul, GW2 and Vindictus are rolling around and changing that perception that it does not have to be stale.
People don't want to see the game fail, because most of us know from experience that if it launches with bad combat, get a bad rep, bad reviews, then it will always suffer from it. Most of us who have been here a long time knows what happens, and several of us have +10 years of MMO experience, so we have every right to be fed up.
Bioware managed to make a great combat system in Mass Effect 2, that had exciting action AND was based on weapon and character stats.
I'm not the kind of guy to say lol, but I did laugh at this emphatically. You have the right to be fed up? Sure, you have the right to not play the game, but being fed up? What are you going to do about it? The masses can't do anything other then make a stand and choose not to buy the game, and that isn't happening because everyone who's played the game has given BioWare pretty good marks overall.
Lets try and be mindful here by learning a bit about perspective. BioWare has opened up testing for months -- MONTHS now. They've had demos, special industry-only events, fan events, and more, and with everything being overly positive by those that are playing, if they are somehow... in ALL of these situations, getting the wrong idea on what they're doing.... then its the PLAYERS fault.
Out of all the reviews I can think of only 1 major publication that wasn't impressed, with a caveat that they would still buy the game. Thats kind of confusing when they have some complaints but still give the game a "buy this game" approval rating.
Aside from that, your opinion that the combat looks horrible is just that - your opinion, and I would add that its safe to say the combat, both space and ground actually DOES look like the movies. (more 1 - 3 than 4 - 6). But I would say its much more in tune to what SW combat looks like than what SWG had in place of combat, and its definitely more star wars than any other MMO out there.
You know where I have heard this talk before? In AoC and Warhammer forums before their release. Once it's out, it's a sinking ship.
Yeah, the guy playing kind of made it look silly. Standing toe to toe with his foes so they can shoot each other in the face, with the blasters almost touching noses. He also seemed to randomly spamming skills, at least in the first vid. Im not sure if you can get a good impression of the combat gameplay from watching that video. Maybe the player ignored all kinds of utility skills that would make the combat look more dynamic. A commentator while an other would play the game, might work better. That way he can focus on actually playing instead of failing at multitasking
Lets try and be mindful here by learning a bit about perspective. BioWare has opened up testing for months -- MONTHS now. They've had demos, special industry-only events, fan events, and more, and with everything being overly positive by those that are playing, if they are somehow... in ALL of these situations, getting the wrong idea on what they're doing.... then its the PLAYERS fault.
You know where I have heard this talk before? In AoC and Warhammer forums before their release. Once it's out, it's a sinking ship.
If you say so.... .... well no, actually, the development cycle of both of these games can't even be compared to SWTOR. For one, both games had a lot of things cut from them before launch, AOC had a lot of issues post 20, but leveling up had pretty good marks overall. Both games had irreparable balancing issues.
At this point everything announced is already in game, and they are polishing, this isn't a bait and switch. There have been DEMOs of PvP, and just about every other feature. They've already spoken about issues they've seen in balancing and specific design issues in some of the warzones.
What you are doing is just hoping that it won't do well, and its unfortunate that you can't just accept that everything so far has been widely praised and popular amongst the majority. Lines are still forming to demo this game for hours in every trade show, and for some reason it hurts those that can't accept people will enjoy games like this. Its fine if you don't like it, you play what you like and let all of us worry about this "sinking ship."
Well there you go, forums, where everyone thinks they are right or that they are oh so important. No you're not, I'm not either. Sure you can share your oppinion and noone has any right to tell you you are wrong, but you don't have that privilege either. When you come off like a raving lunatinc saying that your world is law it just makes you look dumb.
I looked at the vids and didn't see anything wrong with them. Also have no problem with the combat system being the target/hotbar skill press type. People should really stop assuming that just because they don't like a style of combat noone does. Some people might hate having to aim or twitch react to something while playing an mmorpg or are not good at it, so they prefer the target/hotbar. Who know? There are probably alot of different reasons for wanting one style or another.
Also, a thing that I find funny, is that some of the people complaining that it uses a similar combat system to most current mmo's, want to turn every new mmo into a manual target, twitch dodging game, which would basically bring the same "problem". All new mmo's having the same style of combat, but one they like. Suddenly that's ok.
So it all comes down to some people like this style of combat and see nothing wrong with it and some don't like it. Both camps, deal with it.
I for one am happy that some mmo's stick to the old formula of combat while others try something new. That way I have choices, I'm not limited to only tab target/hotbar games, nor am I limited to only manual aim/twitch reaction games.
They have preached FOREVER about how their combat was so great and how it was going to be "heroric star wars combat that is authenthic like the movies", when in truth it looks horrible.
I think the vast silent majority is fed up with it, but technology of the past has not allowed before for MMOs to mix exciting combat with tactical rpg combat due to lag, engine infastructure and so on. Now games like TERA, Blade and Soul, GW2 and Vindictus are rolling around and changing that perception that it does not have to be stale.
People don't want to see the game fail, because most of us know from experience that if it launches with bad combat, get a bad rep, bad reviews, then it will always suffer from it. Most of us who have been here a long time knows what happens, and several of us have +10 years of MMO experience, so we have every right to be fed up.
Bioware managed to make a great combat system in Mass Effect 2, that had exciting action AND was based on weapon and character stats.
Wrong with the majority part, it's a minority. Minorities aren't vast. What you are saying is your opinion which is fine for your opinion. You aren't going to influence anyone who wants to think for themselves though. Things will play out and we'll see how popular it is. The thing about it is, the information I've been given so far along with the things I've seen and the things I've heard, lead me to believe that I will enjoy the game and not care what anyone else has to say.
TOR is becoming the new WoW on here, people bash it left and right. WoW is good for what it does right, sure it used to be better but that's the past. Judge if you want, but it won't make a difference to me.
I think you are wrong and I will tell you why - The reason people bash WoW is because they are fed up with the poor gameplay systems that have hanged on the genre for so long. Universally everywhere in gaming and gaming journalism can you find information and statements about people hating MMOs for their combat systems(historically).
I don't know anyone who plays WoW who thinks its a good combat system - they dislike it. even the people who like the game, tolerate it, but are getting fed up with it.
I believe people are not looking for a WoW replacement. they are looking for something else. They already did WoW for 6 years. What makes you think they want more? the hatred and contempt for MMOs weaknesses will be stronger.
There is a difference between trying a new hyped exciting game for 10-30 minutes and then sit down and play a reskinned experience for hundreds of hours where it will show its true colors.
Many people are excited because it's Star Wars, and those of us from SWG, have been waiting for a proper experience since then. It's not fair to throw such a poor motion capture static system, which is eaxtly what does fools at SOE also did with SWG.
Look at WoW combat - it has lower polygons, but smoother animations and better transistions between jumping, straffing, running in conjunction with attacking from all angles, spinning. It's usually what happens when you mo-cap, because you only serve one specific animation, and those often don't play nice when other animations are being activated at the same time.
its why it looks "stupid" when running while hacking with a lightsaber": it's why there is no real movement when weapons are drawn when straffing and why they look like stretched wooden dummies with no flexibility, but have simple animations of a playstation game anno 1996.
You know where I have heard this talk before? In AoC and Warhammer forums before their release. Once it's out, it's a sinking ship.
If there is one thing I get sick of hearing about it is this, every game from here to enternity that has decent feedback, is going to turn out just like AOC or WAR.
Does that mean if a game gets nothing but horrible feedback it's going to be good?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
to be honest, i think the same way on most games i see. everythign looks different when your not teh oen doing it to me. Another thing i will say is this. The devs suck at playing that game.. I have seen player videos of beta doing much better then the devs ever do! for those two reasons, i will reserve my opinion on teh combat truly until i play it for myself!
Lets try and be mindful here by learning a bit about perspective. BioWare has opened up testing for months -- MONTHS now. They've had demos, special industry-only events, fan events, and more, and with everything being overly positive by those that are playing, if they are somehow... in ALL of these situations, getting the wrong idea on what they're doing.... then its the PLAYERS fault.
You know where I have heard this talk before? In AoC and Warhammer forums before their release. Once it's out, it's a sinking ship.
If you say so.... .... well no, actually, the development cycle of both of these games can't even be compared to SWTOR. For one, both games had a lot of things cut from them before launch, AOC had a lot of issues post 20, but leveling up had pretty good marks overall. Both games had irreparable balancing issues.
At this point everything announced is already in game, and they are polishing, this isn't a bait and switch. There have been DEMOs of PvP, and just about every other feature. They've already spoken about issues they've seen in balancing and specific design issues in some of the warzones.
What you are doing is just hoping that it won't do well, and its unfortunate that you can't just accept that everything so far has been widely praised and popular amongst the majority. Lines are still forming to demo this game for hours in every trade show, and for some reason it hurts those that can't accept people will enjoy games like this. Its fine if you don't like it, you play what you like and let all of us worry about this "sinking ship."
I had to laugh real loud at this. There is only one difference between you and me, and that is that I am not stuck in some "me versus them". We're all on this board, for the same reasons. I loved KOTOR. Why wouldn't I want this game to be a success and fun to me?
I have a realistic perception formed from past experiences, and I see the same patterns like I have seen so many times in the past. Yet another game with rabid fanboys defending it. "It's still in development", "this one will be better than WoW for sure", "it's developer X, they are better than the others", "this game will win because of this and that".
It's the same tune all the time. Both Warhammer and Conan sold really well, won several awards, got good reviews and had very high amounts of initial players and expectations. Same with Rift. Does it matter. No. Why? Because the inherent problems are not being solved.
You talk about a balancing issues. I just want to reference you to every single RPG Bioware has made since KOTOR and tell me that they have not had critical balancing issues. They have been fun and great due to story, but holy moly, they have been unbalanced. Next to combat that is my fear.
I don't believe they have it in them to make an experience that is balanced and fun. All I see them is pulling a WoW in combat and PvP, and it makes me angry. Just because we like Star Wars we're actually playing WoW again with lightsabers and wookies.
Kalfer, I made a post stating the same thing about the combat on the official forums. All the over positive types savaged me half to death.
Thing is, these chars are not using swords, they are using lightsabers. The single most iconic personal weapon in sci fi history. You'd think they would try to get this one piece, very,very right. You see two force users about to rumble, what do you want to see? Saber ballet that's what.
Bioware have the biggest IP in the known universe to play with, they have to get it right. That includes aesthetics and by extension...lightsaber combat.
Look what happened to Star Trek online, a complete mess. that game was marketed and aimed at the wrong demographic..one of the biggest IP's of all time, criminally wasted.
I'm not saying SWTOR will be as bad...but showing off combat animations like that is seriously uncool. Especially when you are Bioware, who has produced examples of gaming excellence time after time.
You know where I have heard this talk before? In AoC and Warhammer forums before their release. Once it's out, it's a sinking ship.
If there is one thing I get sick of hearing about it is this, every game from here to enternity that has decent feedback, is going to turn out just like AOC or WAR.
Does that mean if a game gets nothing but horrible feedback it's going to be good?
No, that's not what I am saying, but I can see why you would read it like that.
What I am saying is that I am fed up with what I think is the core problems with this genre. I personally love Star Wars games like the Jedi Knight games. They had great fun visceral Jedi Combat with 360 degrees mouse aiming. They where really fun, and it's something like that I would consider worthy to be called combat like shown in the movies.
Kalfer, I made a post stating the same thing about the combat on the official forums. All the over positive types savaged me half to death.
Thing is, these chars are not using swords, they are using lightsabers. The single most iconic personal weapon in sci fi history. You'd think they would try to get this one piece, very,very right. You see two force users about to rumble, what do you want to see? Saber ballet that's what.
Bioware have the biggest IP in the known universe to play with, they have to get it right. That includes aesthetics and by extension...lightsaber combat.
Look what happened to Star Trek online, a complete mess. that game was marketed and aimed at the wrong demographic..one of the biggest IP's of all time, criminally wasted.
I'm not saying SWTOR will be as bad...but showing off combat animations like that is seriously uncool. Especially when you are Bioware, who has produced examples of gaming excellence time after time.
I think the biggest plus to combat is how lightsaber combat looks. I'm as big a SW fan as anyone, I think it's just a matter of taste. If you present your argument as such you should have no problem.
However, going all out and saying your rule is law, and you speak for all who have not spoken is a different story entirely. Your opinion is just one of many hundreds to thousands, some like it some don't, I don't understand why these type of things have to be said. I guess it's because people put far too much weight on their own opinion. No one is the center of the universe here, all opinions are equal, theres no truth in an aesthetical opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I had to laugh real loud at this. There is only one difference between you and me, and that is that I am not stuck in some "me versus them". We're all on this board, for the same reasons. I loved KOTOR. Why wouldn't I want this game to be a success and fun to me?
I have a realistic perception formed from past experiences, and I see the same patterns like I have seen so many times in the past. Yet another game with rabid fanboys defending it. "It's still in development", "this one will be better than WoW for sure", "it's developer X, they are better than the others", "this game will win because of this and that".
It's the same tune all the time. Both Warhammer and Conan sold really well, won several awards, got good reviews and had very high amounts of initial players and expectations. Same with Rift. Does it matter. No. Why? Because the inherent problems are not being solved.
You talk about a balancing issues. I just want to reference you to every single RPG Bioware has made since KOTOR and tell me that they have not had critical balancing issues. They have been fun and great due to story, but holy moly, they have been unbalanced. Next to combat that is my fear.
I don't believe they have it in them to make an experience that is balanced and fun. All I see them is pulling a WoW in combat and PvP, and it makes me angry. Just because we like Star Wars we're actually playing WoW again with lightsabers and wookies.
You want to compare BioWares PvE titles and balancing in those games compared to a game that was made with PvP in mind from the start? Really?
Long story short, theres no reason to keep playing this game with you because its pointless. Not only because you over exaggerate your points somehow thinking that the more exaggerated they are, the more true they might become., but also because I already know you'll end up playing the game. Just like WoW, if you are a fan of KOTOR, you'll be buying this one too.
There are a few people here that think SWTOR has nothing going for it other than Star Wars and BioWare, but those people couldn't tell SWTORs feature list from a grocery list. The fact that I can point out plenty of differences between SWTOR combat and WoWs combat doesn't mean anything to you, or that I can name the major changes in gear and character progression. That doesn't matter because topically you see a hot bar and you see skills being fired off and thats enough to be a WoW clone. Its not my responsibility to try and make you like the game. The only thing I do is dispel misconceptions and poor information. With enough time invested in finding out how combat truly works players may start to realize theres more to this game than just what you see in a 5 minute video.
I would so take that bet. Unless Bioware is holding out on us, I'm going to say, this game isn't going to be nearly as huge as all that. Maybe even not much bigger than SWG or LOTRO, if at all. If all this hype leads to too much disappointment, it might even do worse.
WAR, AoC, Aion, and Rift all sold a million or close to a milion units near launch and they didn't have Bioware or the Star Wars franchise to draw people in, so I think you're being unrealistic if you think SWTOR will do less.
Just seems naive that some think this has anything to do with GW2, other than the contrast of looking at what they've show us, and seeing a much higher general standard of quality from Arena. I'm no fan of GW2. It looks like the much healthier horse to bet on, but I'd love to see both MMOs turn out to be great games that do well. I have no reason to be biased. I'm just skeptical, after seeing gameplay vids of SWTOR. The most epic trailers ever just aren't going to sell it, if the gameplay doesn't hold up.
The thing is, most people that actually played the game, the vast majority of them, said that gameplay was great and engaging in SWTOR, from professional reviewers to regular gamers and convention visitors.
Originally posted by Kalfer
I believe people are not looking for a WoW replacement. they are looking for something else. They already did WoW for 6 years. What makes you think they want more? the hatred and contempt for MMOs weaknesses will be stronger.
Many of them played WoW for 6 and more years off and on, this should clearly tell you that they like themepark based gameplay, especially since when they go looking for another MMO, it most of the times is other themepark MMO's.
That hatred and contempt you're talking about, that's just you projecting your own feelings regarding themepark based gameplay.
Many people are excited because it's Star Wars, and those of us from SWG, have been waiting for a proper experience since then. It's not fair to throw such a poor motion capture static system, which is eaxtly what does fools at SOE also did with SWG.
I think this is where the heart of the problem lies: you and people like you have been wanting SWTOR to be like SWG. Move on, it won't be like that, get over it. SWTOR will be different from SWG, and if that means that it isn't an MMO of the gameplay style you prefer, just accept that it isn't. Wishing for SWTOR to be more like a sandbox MMO where it's clearly firmly grounded in themepark design, doesn't change the situation.
its why it looks "stupid" when running while hacking with a lightsaber": it's why there is no real movement when weapons are drawn when straffing and why they look like stretched wooden dummies with no flexibility, but have simple animations of a playstation game anno 1996.
Sorry, but you have been looking at only a few videos apparently, there are enough videos that show combat where people are on the move constantly, strafing as well while activating their skills.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
I think if people would just judge things for themselves, waiting for an up and coming mmorpg would go a lot smoother. As i said, for me, TOR's combat looks like exactly what i expected and wanted. For everyone else, if you can't find anything that TOR will offer as being something you may like or be interested in, then why even have a comment on it.
For people that don't like this title, isn't there another game you can go and discuss. i mean, it's not like mmo gamers have to play every new title that comes out.
They have to comment on it, its all they have. In the end they'll still buy the game. The combat looks good, the game all around is much improved of just about everything on the market, and while there are things about this game I myself don't like particularly, I'm not going to try to fool myself. I've already decided I'm going to play.
When the game launches we won't be at a loss for players, and all of this whining won't mean anything then. Its only bothersome now because we can't get in game yet.
These long drawn out threads over love and hate of what the game is and what the game should be always make me smile. Since at the end of the day some of you will walk away with shattered pride while others with self gratifcation and dignification; but in the end the game will remain what it is a story driven MMO with WoW like qualites and traditionall MMO combat, take it or leave it. This combat isn't for everyone, just as EVEs mouse driven piolting system isn't for eveyone, but beggers can't be choosers right. We find what we like and if we can't we just move on.
Personaly i still play my TurboGraphics from time to time because it has fun games that time will never erode. Many great games have stood the test of time, just because they are not innovative dosn't mean they arn't great. Most games out are just a variation of something that came before it with small addtions here and there but we buy them and play them. Why? Because they are fun, i mean isn't that why we all play (remember fun is subjective so challeging games can be fun to some, while games that just kill time are fun to others). So lets just try to enjoy the SWTOR for what it is please or if you don't like it you can state your opinon but no need to go all out and wage war on it, as it will release wheather you like it or not.... Until next time enjoy your forum posting,jumping, spaming, trolling, watching, or whatever it is that brings you here.
We go trough life with many yet there is a time we must walk our path alone.
Meh, i still play KOTOR through again every year or two and outside of story it's gameplay is terrible by todays standards. TOR is going to have to be a horrid game for me not to enjoy it for at least a few months. Sure it might not be the one that keeps me playing for years to come but i stopped expecting more than a few months for my £30 years ago, after all it's barely enough to cover going out for dinner.
Well there you go, forums, where everyone thinks they are right or that they are oh so important. No you're not, I'm not either. Sure you can share your oppinion and noone has any right to tell you you are wrong, but you don't have that privilege either. When you come off like a raving lunatinc saying that your world is law it just makes you look dumb.
I looked at the vids and didn't see anything wrong with them. Also have no problem with the combat system being the target/hotbar skill press type. People should really stop assuming that just because they don't like a style of combat noone does. Some people might hate having to aim or twitch react to something while playing an mmorpg or are not good at it, so they prefer the target/hotbar. Who know? There are probably alot of different reasons for wanting one style or another.
Also, a thing that I find funny, is that some of the people complaining that it uses a similar combat system to most current mmo's, want to turn every new mmo into a manual target, twitch dodging game, which would basically bring the same "problem". All new mmo's having the same style of combat, but one they like. Suddenly that's ok.
So it all comes down to some people like this style of combat and see nothing wrong with it and some don't like it. Both camps, deal with it.
I for one am happy that some mmo's stick to the old formula of combat while others try something new. That way I have choices, I'm not limited to only tab target/hotbar games, nor am I limited to only manual aim/twitch reaction games.
I would so take that bet. Unless Bioware is holding out on us, I'm going to say, this game isn't going to be nearly as huge as all that. Maybe even not much bigger than SWG or LOTRO, if at all. If all this hype leads to too much disappointment, it might even do worse.
Just seems naive that some think this has anything to do with GW2, other than the contrast of looking at what they've show us, and seeing a much higher general standard of quality from Arena. I'm no fan of GW2. It looks like the much healthier horse to bet on, but I'd love to see both MMOs turn out to be great games that do well. I have no reason to be biased. I'm just skeptical, after seeing gameplay vids of SWTOR. The most epic trailers ever just aren't going to sell it, if the gameplay doesn't hold up.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I for one am going to play this game no matter what.
If you take a look at how many people posted on this topic, you can see that its not very many people. Theres a high post count but I'm sure there are some multiple posts by the same people. If no one in this forum subscribed to SWTOR, I'm pretty sure Bioware wouldnt miss anyone here.
They have preached FOREVER about how their combat was so great and how it was going to be "heroric star wars combat that is authenthic like the movies", when in truth it looks horrible.
I think the vast silent majority is fed up with it, but technology of the past has not allowed before for MMOs to mix exciting combat with tactical rpg combat due to lag, engine infastructure and so on. Now games like TERA, Blade and Soul, GW2 and Vindictus are rolling around and changing that perception that it does not have to be stale.
People don't want to see the game fail, because most of us know from experience that if it launches with bad combat, get a bad rep, bad reviews, then it will always suffer from it. Most of us who have been here a long time knows what happens, and several of us have +10 years of MMO experience, so we have every right to be fed up.
Bioware managed to make a great combat system in Mass Effect 2, that had exciting action AND was based on weapon and character stats.
I was a bit turned off by how the demonstrator was playing it: standing in melee range firing a pistol in mob's faces. But it seemed ok, to me, lookswise.
You make it sound like they promised action-based combat akin to God of War or something. When in reality what they were referring to was the animations (IE: saber clashes and things of that nature).
"in truth it looks horrible" there's no universal to truth to such a claim. Some like it and some don't, some like the animations some don't, there's no actual truth to any of this though.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Wrong with the majority part, it's a minority. Minorities aren't vast. What you are saying is your opinion which is fine for your opinion. You aren't going to influence anyone who wants to think for themselves though. Things will play out and we'll see how popular it is. The thing about it is, the information I've been given so far along with the things I've seen and the things I've heard, lead me to believe that I will enjoy the game and not care what anyone else has to say.
TOR is becoming the new WoW on here, people bash it left and right. WoW is good for what it does right, sure it used to be better but that's the past. Judge if you want, but it won't make a difference to me.
I'm not the kind of guy to say lol, but I did laugh at this emphatically. You have the right to be fed up? Sure, you have the right to not play the game, but being fed up? What are you going to do about it? The masses can't do anything other then make a stand and choose not to buy the game, and that isn't happening because everyone who's played the game has given BioWare pretty good marks overall.
Lets try and be mindful here by learning a bit about perspective. BioWare has opened up testing for months -- MONTHS now. They've had demos, special industry-only events, fan events, and more, and with everything being overly positive by those that are playing, if they are somehow... in ALL of these situations, getting the wrong idea on what they're doing.... then its the PLAYERS fault.
Out of all the reviews I can think of only 1 major publication that wasn't impressed, with a caveat that they would still buy the game. Thats kind of confusing when they have some complaints but still give the game a "buy this game" approval rating.
Aside from that, your opinion that the combat looks horrible is just that - your opinion, and I would add that its safe to say the combat, both space and ground actually DOES look like the movies. (more 1 - 3 than 4 - 6). But I would say its much more in tune to what SW combat looks like than what SWG had in place of combat, and its definitely more star wars than any other MMO out there.
You know where I have heard this talk before? In AoC and Warhammer forums before their release. Once it's out, it's a sinking ship.
Yeah, the guy playing kind of made it look silly. Standing toe to toe with his foes so they can shoot each other in the face, with the blasters almost touching noses. He also seemed to randomly spamming skills, at least in the first vid. Im not sure if you can get a good impression of the combat gameplay from watching that video. Maybe the player ignored all kinds of utility skills that would make the combat look more dynamic. A commentator while an other would play the game, might work better. That way he can focus on actually playing instead of failing at multitasking
If you say so.... .... well no, actually, the development cycle of both of these games can't even be compared to SWTOR. For one, both games had a lot of things cut from them before launch, AOC had a lot of issues post 20, but leveling up had pretty good marks overall. Both games had irreparable balancing issues.
At this point everything announced is already in game, and they are polishing, this isn't a bait and switch. There have been DEMOs of PvP, and just about every other feature. They've already spoken about issues they've seen in balancing and specific design issues in some of the warzones.
What you are doing is just hoping that it won't do well, and its unfortunate that you can't just accept that everything so far has been widely praised and popular amongst the majority. Lines are still forming to demo this game for hours in every trade show, and for some reason it hurts those that can't accept people will enjoy games like this. Its fine if you don't like it, you play what you like and let all of us worry about this "sinking ship."
I think you are wrong and I will tell you why - The reason people bash WoW is because they are fed up with the poor gameplay systems that have hanged on the genre for so long. Universally everywhere in gaming and gaming journalism can you find information and statements about people hating MMOs for their combat systems(historically).
I don't know anyone who plays WoW who thinks its a good combat system - they dislike it. even the people who like the game, tolerate it, but are getting fed up with it.
I believe people are not looking for a WoW replacement. they are looking for something else. They already did WoW for 6 years. What makes you think they want more? the hatred and contempt for MMOs weaknesses will be stronger.
There is a difference between trying a new hyped exciting game for 10-30 minutes and then sit down and play a reskinned experience for hundreds of hours where it will show its true colors.
Many people are excited because it's Star Wars, and those of us from SWG, have been waiting for a proper experience since then. It's not fair to throw such a poor motion capture static system, which is eaxtly what does fools at SOE also did with SWG.
Look at WoW combat - it has lower polygons, but smoother animations and better transistions between jumping, straffing, running in conjunction with attacking from all angles, spinning. It's usually what happens when you mo-cap, because you only serve one specific animation, and those often don't play nice when other animations are being activated at the same time.
its why it looks "stupid" when running while hacking with a lightsaber": it's why there is no real movement when weapons are drawn when straffing and why they look like stretched wooden dummies with no flexibility, but have simple animations of a playstation game anno 1996.
If there is one thing I get sick of hearing about it is this, every game from here to enternity that has decent feedback, is going to turn out just like AOC or WAR.
Does that mean if a game gets nothing but horrible feedback it's going to be good?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
to be honest, i think the same way on most games i see. everythign looks different when your not teh oen doing it to me. Another thing i will say is this. The devs suck at playing that game.. I have seen player videos of beta doing much better then the devs ever do! for those two reasons, i will reserve my opinion on teh combat truly until i play it for myself!
I had to laugh real loud at this. There is only one difference between you and me, and that is that I am not stuck in some "me versus them". We're all on this board, for the same reasons. I loved KOTOR. Why wouldn't I want this game to be a success and fun to me?
I have a realistic perception formed from past experiences, and I see the same patterns like I have seen so many times in the past. Yet another game with rabid fanboys defending it. "It's still in development", "this one will be better than WoW for sure", "it's developer X, they are better than the others", "this game will win because of this and that".
It's the same tune all the time. Both Warhammer and Conan sold really well, won several awards, got good reviews and had very high amounts of initial players and expectations. Same with Rift. Does it matter. No. Why? Because the inherent problems are not being solved.
You talk about a balancing issues. I just want to reference you to every single RPG Bioware has made since KOTOR and tell me that they have not had critical balancing issues. They have been fun and great due to story, but holy moly, they have been unbalanced. Next to combat that is my fear.
I don't believe they have it in them to make an experience that is balanced and fun. All I see them is pulling a WoW in combat and PvP, and it makes me angry. Just because we like Star Wars we're actually playing WoW again with lightsabers and wookies.
Kalfer, I made a post stating the same thing about the combat on the official forums. All the over positive types savaged me half to death.
Thing is, these chars are not using swords, they are using lightsabers. The single most iconic personal weapon in sci fi history. You'd think they would try to get this one piece, very,very right. You see two force users about to rumble, what do you want to see? Saber ballet that's what.
Bioware have the biggest IP in the known universe to play with, they have to get it right. That includes aesthetics and by extension...lightsaber combat.
Look what happened to Star Trek online, a complete mess. that game was marketed and aimed at the wrong demographic..one of the biggest IP's of all time, criminally wasted.
I'm not saying SWTOR will be as bad...but showing off combat animations like that is seriously uncool. Especially when you are Bioware, who has produced examples of gaming excellence time after time.
No, that's not what I am saying, but I can see why you would read it like that.
What I am saying is that I am fed up with what I think is the core problems with this genre. I personally love Star Wars games like the Jedi Knight games. They had great fun visceral Jedi Combat with 360 degrees mouse aiming. They where really fun, and it's something like that I would consider worthy to be called combat like shown in the movies.
Well at least i'm sure of one thing.
Now all the mmo dev team around the world know for sure, that puting shooting combat into a rpg tab targeting combat system is just a very bad idea.
I think the biggest plus to combat is how lightsaber combat looks. I'm as big a SW fan as anyone, I think it's just a matter of taste. If you present your argument as such you should have no problem.
However, going all out and saying your rule is law, and you speak for all who have not spoken is a different story entirely. Your opinion is just one of many hundreds to thousands, some like it some don't, I don't understand why these type of things have to be said. I guess it's because people put far too much weight on their own opinion. No one is the center of the universe here, all opinions are equal, theres no truth in an aesthetical opinion.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You want to compare BioWares PvE titles and balancing in those games compared to a game that was made with PvP in mind from the start? Really?
Long story short, theres no reason to keep playing this game with you because its pointless. Not only because you over exaggerate your points somehow thinking that the more exaggerated they are, the more true they might become., but also because I already know you'll end up playing the game. Just like WoW, if you are a fan of KOTOR, you'll be buying this one too.
There are a few people here that think SWTOR has nothing going for it other than Star Wars and BioWare, but those people couldn't tell SWTORs feature list from a grocery list. The fact that I can point out plenty of differences between SWTOR combat and WoWs combat doesn't mean anything to you, or that I can name the major changes in gear and character progression. That doesn't matter because topically you see a hot bar and you see skills being fired off and thats enough to be a WoW clone. Its not my responsibility to try and make you like the game. The only thing I do is dispel misconceptions and poor information. With enough time invested in finding out how combat truly works players may start to realize theres more to this game than just what you see in a 5 minute video.
The thing is, most people that actually played the game, the vast majority of them, said that gameplay was great and engaging in SWTOR, from professional reviewers to regular gamers and convention visitors.
Sorry, but you have been looking at only a few videos apparently, there are enough videos that show combat where people are on the move constantly, strafing as well while activating their skills.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."