Though the author is an elitist jerkwad (who the fuck has the audacity to call another human being a cretin for enjoying a game like Farmville?), he brings up some good points. CCP was not prepared for what they wanted to do with EVE, leaving the game's future open to external influences, mainly what the competition is doing. Is it any surprise that the genre is slipping into the realm of Microtransactions one company at a time? Some dip their toes in the pool while others dive right in. CCP's made a fatal mistake here; not necessarily with the Noble Exchange itself, but with the combination of the introduction of Microtransactions after multiple gameplay changes that, for the most part, have not been well received. Unless they can do a quick 180 (which I doubt they can, seeing the strange mix of unprofessionalism and arrogance that has gripped them), the game will suffer greatly.
Elitist or just honest? From what I've seen Farmville is just this side of compulsive rearrangement of your sock drawer.
Eve has had it's ups and downs over the years, but there has never been anything even CLOSE to it in terms of challenge, complexity, and pure enjoyment in the gaming world. It is essentially a living artwork, and the author of this letter (albeit in a very humorous fashion) comes very close to capturing the way I feel about the game and recent events.
I've been playing since 2004, with four accounts during most of that time. I've been able to cover most of my subs with PLEX/GTC during that time. It really is a brilliant system, and the EVE economy is simply incredible.
I cancelled all of my subscriptions today. In the "reason you are leaving" box I just said that I wouldn't pay another cent until MT of any kind were removed from the game forever. EVE is one of those rare phenomena that come along maybe once every 20 years... where synergy and serendipity create something more amazing than anyone could have predicted. Those of you that really know the game already understand this, and you also understand instinctively that MT will kill everything that makes EVE what it is. If CCP continues down this path and actually DOES sell out it will be a sin.
I still hold out hope that they will realize what a huge mistake they are making and get back on track. I sincerely hope they will fire the people responsible for trying to retool the game to accomodate the lowest common denominator.
"Damn those cretins invading EVE. Those ADD-riddled children should stay in WoW, where they can be appeased with shiny, $25 mounts, instead of coming here and appealing to CCP with their numbers, who in turn make design decisions that ruin the game I love."
Why not just say that? Truth is, I sympathized with the author until the final paragraphs. EVE was simply not generating enough revenue to match CCP's ambition (which is surprising, since it always displayed gradual but steady subscription growth, one of its best aspects and a good argument for the claim that sandboxes are still present and relevant in today's MMO scene). Where else are they going to get more subscribers? Would you rather they doubled the subscription fee, or something along those lines, to generate more income? I think CCP bit off more than it could chew with rapid expansion and projects like DUST and World of Darkness. If their flagship game was suffering, they should've ensured its health before looking at other venues. That's just a problem with CCP's business philosophy and lack of professionalism overall. It started as an indie company, after all.
Originally posted by Golelorn Originally posted by batolemaeus CCP has not been selling isk. If they had, the game would've already spiraled out of control more than it already has with the plex catalyst.
When did they drop PLEX? According to their website you can still buy timecards from others using ISK. Letting people trade game time among themselves is not the same as selling isk directly. Creating currency out of thin air is a horrible thing, while creating a token for people to trade with isn't (as long as it stays a token, and not something with a gameplay value)
What they said three years ago, really has no relation to now. Profits and company earnings are more important to a company than a statement made to appease players at a certain time.
Do I like a company going back on their word, (I'd like to see the actual statement and the circumstances of it, as well as context)? No
However I do not know how their company is performing financially. If things don't look good and other development projects need funds, they have one way to make those funds internally, that's with EVE. They could always sell out to a company like EA, but I'd much prefer a company make money their own way than sell themselves to a big corp.
People talk of greed yet seemingly fail to see how much a company spends on developing games, especially when multiple projects are on the table. Not to mention a large addition to a pre-existing game.
Also I think it was a mistake backing down as they did with additions to plex income, now players will have the idea they can control the future financial focus of the company as a whole. We're seeing that at play now, with these protests and the highly vocal forum banter.
I'm not looking at this from a players perspective, I'm looking at it from that of a business. If they need funding they need to increase profits, it's as simple as that.
which is exactly why players are starting to bail, because they keep going back on their word.
And you know what, you're right, CCP has every right to explore new revenue options.
Then again, customers are completely within their right to take their money elsewhere if they're no longer content with the product, service, or the company that produces it.
I fully agree, you're right everyone has a right to pull their CC info. Which is the best way to say how you feel about this. If they lose enough it actually hurts them, gathering thousands of player's in an area to create lag only hurts the players around you.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
which is exactly why players are starting to bail, because they keep going back on their word.
And you know what, you're right, CCP has every right to explore new revenue options.
Then again, customers are completely within their right to take their money elsewhere if they're no longer content with the product, service, or the company that produces it.
I fully agree, you're right everyone has a right to pull their CC info. Which is the best way to say how you feel about this. If they lose enough it actually hurts them, gathering thousands of player's in an area to create lag only hurts the players around you.
It's truly a beautiful thing what those players are doing. As a long time EVE player, I find it to be quite the fitting response.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
Vanity items I don't care about, I saw the prices and shrugged but I don't need those items so it does not effect me. I can see why some people are upset over the prices because they might like those items for their character and the items are over priced. CCP gave a reason to doing it and I understand, but those prices need to be taken down a bit to actually be worth buying.
Let me put it this way.
They have already tried to put gameplay affecting items into game twice (remaps & scorpion). While those wheren't that bad they whent down in a sea of flames and got pulled.
After this, where it should be quite clear that we don't want MT for non-vanity items, a newsletter appears discussing in depth various ideas on how they could implement MT for non-vanity items.
A couple of rage threadnaughts emarge going hundreds of pages long where players are demanding that CCP give them a firm answer about weather or not they are doing MT for non-vanity items. CCP say a blog will be released in a day address the main concerns.
A dev blog is released addressing some concerns on pricing and completely ignoring the MT for non-vanity items issue was posted. About half an hour (or 543 posts later) he responds saying he knows he didn't adress everything, saying he'll address more stuff later but not even naming the MT for non-vanity items issue.
For reference I just did a quick count on the last page (the thread is too long to count the whole thing) and 12/30 posts on that page specifically reference this issue. A lot of others where just "I'm leaving" or "fuck you ccp" or "you missed the issue" and didn't specifically reference MT for non-vanity so I didn't count them.
It's painfully obvious they are avoiding this issue and have been for a long time, considering the levels of rage focused on this issue atm, for them to try to ignore it at this point can only be bad news. Maybe they will change their mind and it won't come in, but thinking they aren't trying to bring it in is wishful thinking or outright denial.
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
Vanity items I don't care about, I saw the prices and shrugged but I don't need those items so it does not effect me. I can see why some people are upset over the prices because they might like those items for their character and the items are over priced. CCP gave a reason to doing it and I understand, but those prices need to be taken down a bit to actually be worth buying.
Let me put it this way.
They have already tried to put gameplay affecting items into game twice (remaps & scorpion). While those wheren't that bad they whent down in a sea of flames and got pulled.
After this, where it should be quite clear that we don't want MT for non-vanity items, a newsletter appears discussing in depth various ideas on how they could implement MT for non-vanity items.
A couple of rage threadnaughts emarge going hundreds of pages long where players are demanding that CCP give them a firm answer about weather or not they are doing MT for non-vanity items. CCP say a blog will be released in a day address the main concerns.
A dev blog is released addressing some concerns on pricing and completely ignoring the MT for non-vanity items issue was posted. About half an hour (or 543 posts later) he responds saying he knows he didn't adress everything, saying he'll address more stuff later but not even naming the MT for non-vanity items issue.
For reference I just did a quick count on the last page (the thread is too long to count the whole thing) and 12/30 posts on that page specifically reference this issue. A lot of others where just "I'm leaving" or "fuck you ccp" or "you missed the issue" and didn't specifically reference MT for non-vanity so I didn't count them.
It's painfully obvious they are avoiding this issue and have been for a long time, considering the levels of rage focused on this issue atm, for them to try to ignore it at this point can only be bad news. Maybe they will change their mind and it won't come in, but thinking they aren't trying to bring it in is wishful thinking or outright denial.
Ok i just read fearless and... If you dont know what te nerd rage is about, read it. Its the internal newsletter of ccp and srsly. That just messed up o.o
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni ( o.o) (")(") **This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
Ok i just read fearless and... If you dont know what te nerd rage is about, read it. Its the internal newsletter of ccp and srsly. That just messed up o.o
However did you read about what fearless is? There are two sides to every coin, in this case one must take one with the other. Then flip it to see which side lands up, that's about as much as you can trust either side of this debacle.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ok i just read fearless and... If you dont know what te nerd rage is about, read it. Its the internal newsletter of ccp and srsly. That just messed up o.o
However did you read about what fearless is? There are two sides to every coin, in this case one must take one with the other. Then flip it to see which side lands up, that's about as much as you can trust either side of this debacle.
If you can't see why people are upset, this might explain a bit more.
CCP promised they would never sell non-vanity items. So the playerbase's fair attitude is: why are you discussing what you promised you'd never do? And the dev response was: Didn't the expac rollout go well? We're super pleased, sorry you don't like the high prices of the vanity items, suck it up, hope that answers all your concerns.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Ok i just read fearless and... If you dont know what te nerd rage is about, read it. Its the internal newsletter of ccp and srsly. That just messed up o.o
However did you read about what fearless is? There are two sides to every coin, in this case one must take one with the other. Then flip it to see which side lands up, that's about as much as you can trust either side of this debacle.
If you can't see why people are upset, this might explain a bit more.
CCP promised they would never sell non-vanity items. So the playerbase's fair attitude is: why are you discussing what you promised you'd never do? And the dev response was: Didn't the expac rollout go well? We're super pleased, sorry you don't like the high prices of the vanity items, suck it up, hope that answers all your concerns.
I didn't say there is no reason to be upset, I did say I don't think there is reason to be "NGE upset" though at least not yet.
The reasoning means little in the end though, only what actually happens. He says the memo was purposefully exaggerated, the fans say full on P2W MT is incoming. Who is right, who is wrong? Like I said at this point it's not much different than calling out a flipping coin. Who knows...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
This sounds to me like the more sensible approach, the 'let's hear the 2 sides of the story' before the auto-concluding begins. If it was truly what CCP intended to do, then you'll see it automatically in one of the updates. Furthermore, it sounds to me that it's a matter of waiting what the company as a whole has to say about it all.
It's a bit late by that point, don't you think? I mean it's not a good idea to spring these sorts of things on the community, especially if you KNOW most of them are going to be dead set against it.
The problem is this is nothing new. This has been discussed many times in the past and CCP knows full well that the Eve community doesn't like the idea. Yet they still bring it up for serious discussion...not only that but it's implied by what's said that they've already made up their mind that this is going to happen, like it or not. It seems to me that in their arrogance they were convinced that the community would simply get used to the idea, but frankly I don't think that's true.
I'm all for a wait and see attitude to a certain extent, but when you hear something like this waiting until they actually implement it to voice your discontent is far too late. If they put it in odds are highly against them removing it. Isn't it wiser to speak up now BEFORE they actually go forward with the plan so that they are forewarned that it's very likely they will have a mass exodus on thier hands if they do?
I didn't say that people shouldn't raise hell about it, in fact I think it's a good thing. To use the relationship analogy that I used before and that the letter writer was so fond of, it would be equivalent to confronting your partner and saying 'wtf were you thinking?', where as automatically concluding the worst without even having waited and learnt more about what's really going on and what they plan to do sounds to me the equivalent of packing your bags and moving out without hearing what your partner has to say, after years of being together and without your partner having committed any act of adultery (yet).
All of a sudden you get people concluding of CCP being a new 'ultimate evil', instead of the company that did provide them with a lot of fun and a great game for years, which is quite a switch in thinking to make based upon 1 email.
Originally posted by Eleazaros
I don't think you have enough information to make such assertions nor assements.
3 years ago CCP said no RMT in EVE - ever. About a year ago, they said they were putting it in "vanity only". "You LIED!!!"
Common reaction but most went "meh... who cares if someone wants to fly a pink ship or wear a fancy hat for $$$".
PS: Yes, CCP is trying to dismiss the letter. No, they are not trying to answer the single most pressing question: "will the store stop at vanity?" - a single sentence blog and this entire topic would blow over - "The store will only sell vanity items." If they won't say that - what conclusion would YOU draw?
Do you have a link to that statement, did they say it like that literally, 'no RMT in EVE ever?'
It seems to me that this letter was just out, merely a day or 2 ago? I haven't seen any official statements linked in this thread, if people have them why not post them here so we can see what they say? So, if there is, I'm interested in the source link. If they're dismissing the 'pay 2 win' options in that letter, then it should be obvious that you won't see things like that at least for quite a while.
If they're saying things officially that are in contrast of what they said before (quote pls from what they said before) and in favor of 'pay 2 win' related items that will be implemented in one of the future patches, then that sounds bad and provide ample reason to make the decision to leave when those updates hit the scene.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I cancelled all of my subscriptions today. In the "reason you are leaving" box I just said that I wouldn't pay another cent until MT of any kind were removed from the game forever. EVE is one of those rare phenomena that come along maybe once every 20 years... where synergy and serendipity create something more amazing than anyone could have predicted. Those of you that really know the game already understand this, and you also understand instinctively that MT will kill everything that makes EVE what it is. If CCP continues down this path and actually DOES sell out it will be a sin.
I still hold out hope that they will realize what a huge mistake they are making and get back on track. I sincerely hope they will fire the people responsible for trying to retool the game to accomodate the lowest common denominator.
In the mean while I resubbed. So did quite a few others if you are to trust the server numbers. I'll laugh myself to death if the server break thier peek concurrent users this Sunday.
Nerd rage is going nowhere. CCP wont say no to MT. THey ahev allready comitted to that, to a lesser degree in EvE, but as the base of DUST 514 and WoD. If it will stay vanity in EvE, only time will tell. If it turns out that they can exchange thier current threadnoughting, e-rageing, bunch of whiners with people who like to pay a sub as well as for a few vanity items, they will of course do that.
Once I see in the patch notes that they are doing this then I will quit. Until then I will not worry about it.
If anyone did read the entire thing it said that the items that he is proposing is HIS OWN OPINION. Note that it is ONE PERSON'S OPINION. Not CCP as a whole, just one employee. Until CCP says yes this is what we have planned then yes I will not be playing EVE Online anymore. Since these micro transactions will mess up the economy and cause other problems.
This sounds to me like the more sensible approach, the 'let's hear the 2 sides of the story' before the auto-concluding begins. If it was truly what CCP intended to do, then you'll see it automatically in one of the updates. Furthermore, it sounds to me that it's a matter of waiting what the company as a whole has to say about it all.
It's a bit late by that point, don't you think? I mean it's not a good idea to spring these sorts of things on the community, especially if you KNOW most of them are going to be dead set against it.
The problem is this is nothing new. This has been discussed many times in the past and CCP knows full well that the Eve community doesn't like the idea. Yet they still bring it up for serious discussion...not only that but it's implied by what's said that they've already made up their mind that this is going to happen, like it or not. It seems to me that in their arrogance they were convinced that the community would simply get used to the idea, but frankly I don't think that's true.
I'm all for a wait and see attitude to a certain extent, but when you hear something like this waiting until they actually implement it to voice your discontent is far too late. If they put it in odds are highly against them removing it. Isn't it wiser to speak up now BEFORE they actually go forward with the plan so that they are forewarned that it's very likely they will have a mass exodus on thier hands if they do?
I didn't say that people shouldn't raise hell about it, in fact I think it's a good thing. To use the relationship analogy that I used before and that the letter writer was so fond of, it would be equivalent to confronting your partner and saying 'wtf were you thinking?', where as automatically concluding the worst without even having waited and learnt more about what's really going on and what they plan to do sounds to me the equivalent of packing your bags and moving out without hearing what your partner has to say, after years of being together and without your partner having committed any act of adultery (yet).
All of a sudden you get people concluding of CCP being a new 'ultimate evil', instead of the company that did provide them with a lot of fun and a great game for years, which is quite a switch in thinking to make based upon 1 email.
Originally posted by Eleazaros
I don't think you have enough information to make such assertions nor assements.
3 years ago CCP said no RMT in EVE - ever. About a year ago, they said they were putting it in "vanity only". "You LIED!!!"
Common reaction but most went "meh... who cares if someone wants to fly a pink ship or wear a fancy hat for $$$".
PS: Yes, CCP is trying to dismiss the letter. No, they are not trying to answer the single most pressing question: "will the store stop at vanity?" - a single sentence blog and this entire topic would blow over - "The store will only sell vanity items." If they won't say that - what conclusion would YOU draw?
Do you have a link to that statement, did they say it like that literally, 'no RMT in EVE ever?'
It seems to me that this letter was just out, merely a day or 2 ago? I haven't seen any official statements linked in this thread, if people have them why not post them here so we can see what they say? So, if there is, I'm interested in the source link. If they're dismissing the 'pay 2 win' options in that letter, then it should be obvious that you won't see things like that at least for quite a while.
If they're saying things officially that are in contrast of what they said before (quote pls from what they said before) and in favor of 'pay 2 win' related items that will be implemented in one of the future patches, then that sounds bad and provide ample reason to make the decision to leave when those updates hit the scene.
After checking around, I can see why you asked for links and the like... With the current mess about this stuff, it's a bear digging up some of those older posts and what not.
A perfectly valid goodbye letter. I had always envisioned myself playing EVE Online for many years to come, but I feel this cash shop will only lead to bigger and uglier things.
"P.S. I've cancelled the credit card that I gave you to use"
No one with any common sense would do that. Hence, this letter is just a scam/bs letter that someone wrote to make a point and they ruined the chance to do so with the last sentence.
##Best SWTOR of 2011 Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011 Originally posted by daveospice "this game looks like crap?"
"P.S. I've cancelled the credit card that I gave you to use"
No one with any common sense would do that. Hence, this letter is just a scam/bs letter that someone wrote to make a point and they ruined the chance to do so with the last sentence.
It’s common practice for many gamers to use a pre-paid type of card for each game they play. This way they don’t have to give out information linked to a banking account to a company that might be compromised. I pretty sure he was referring to something like this. The statement didn’t seem strange to me.
I'm starting to wonder if the leak of Fearless was a leak after all. Is it possible that it was something akin to what politicians do when they are thinking about pushing for certain laws. Putting out "trial balloons" so to speak. I think its fairly useful to gauge the response. The only problem with this idea that I see is the fact that they won't come out and say they won't put non-vanity items in the shop. If they would just do that then half of the complaints would end. This leads me to believe that they intend to do it at some point and don't want to be on the record saying that they won't. Could be a sort of "prep" so that when it does happen people aren't shocked.
I know that writing this letter may seem heartless and cold, but I really need to tell you some important things that would be lost in emotion if I told you face to face. We've been together for 8 years now, living as geek and internet spaceship supplier. I hope that still means something to you (it does to me) and so hope that you'll listen to me when I say, now, that we have problems.
At first you bowled me over. You gave me an entire world where I could do what I wanted and damn the rules. You gave me power, both martial and industrial, and said to me "do it your way". For my part I injected life and human interaction into that world. We both worked hard for this; at times I felt like I was working a second job and I know that you were faced with technical challenges that had never even been thought of. But we built it together, nourished it and sheltered it while it grew. In time, we marveled at what we had created together. We had taken a blank canvas and filled it with complex, daring and, above all, dynamic designs.
You weren’t done, though. You gave me more wonderful tools in the new combat system, T2 and POSes. After I had gotten to grips with these tools you then gave me a crowning goal; sovereignty, the ability to place my own precarious and unique mark on our world. You had given me gifts, in the form of outposts and capitals, to go out and build for myself the sort of world you had created. You loved me for my tenacity and my willingness to exercise the gifts you shared with me.
You weren’t happy leaving it there, however. To make your point you showed me Dust and Incarna, hinting at the possibilities of interacting with a vastly expanded world with different ways of interacting. I marveled at your brilliance and looked forward to these momentous changes.
Maybe it was because you spoiled me so much in those early years that what was to follow came as a shock. You seemed unhappy with the way I was using the gifts you gave me. I frowned as you started replacing my tools, with which I had recently gotten to grips, with frighteningly complicated simulacra (Sov, PI for POS fuels, PLEXes etc.). I was left wondering where all the spaceships went. It felt like you were telling me that you were no longer happy with what we had made, but then you smiled and told me it was simply part of your larger plan. All of this happened through the four years of waiting for the new worlds you promised.
You finally opened up the Captain’s Quarters to me. I was excited and dove straight in, and emerged confused. This wasn’t what you’d promised me. This wasn’t a tool I could use to do anything with. This was a cheap bauble, a plaything to distract me for a few brief moments. Or so I thought until I found the Noble Exchange.
In all those five years you never hinted that I’d have to start paying for your affection, but recently I discovered your diary and your plans of what you had in store for me. It made me feel cheap, dirty. Our relationship had always been about mutual benefits but at least it had the semblance of commitment. No longer.
You have decided to go chase other kinds of players, the sort with an attention span of a gnat and intellect to match. These guys might wow you with their bulging wallets but - I think you’ll find - they don’t love you for who you are. They won’t help you build worlds. They won’t inspire you, or be inspired by you. They’re not me.
Maybe this is all my fault. I listened to you and trusted you. I told you that I’d like our world to be like this, though I secretly held my reservations.
Now, as our world begins to fill up with cretins and Farmville fans, I am left to ponder the emptiness I feel. I know you’ll say “I’ll change!”, but that’s the problem; you did - and it wasn’t good.
I’ll always have feelings for you and your quirky spaceships but that’s not what you’re about anymore. I simply don’t like what you’ve become and nothing you’ve told me has made me feel better.
Goodbye,
Me
P.S. I've cancelled the credit card that I gave you to use
Dragothmar
Southern Cross Monopoly
Flying Dangerous
This is what happens when you give your heart to basically what amounts to a John/prostitute relationship. You're giving money to someone who MAKES you think you're the only one that matters. And hell, you believe it when she does her job correctly. Doesn't matter if she's a 2 bit whore on the street corner (F2P mmos) or an uptown escort (P2P mmos). The bottom line is separating you from your money and getting you to come back time and time again.
Some people understand the relationship and what in entails (entertainment and temporary escapism in exchange for money). So they have no issue with paying for a mutual agreement. And some, like the above poster, happen to get so caught up in the dream that they start to blur the line between fantasy and reality. Nothing good can come from misplaced dependency. And more players need to make sure they understand the rules of engagement before they get so emotionally attached. It's always less messy if you retain the power to end these relationships first.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
This is what happens when you give your heart to basically what amounts to a John/prostitute relationship. You're giving money to someone who MAKES you think you're the only one that matters. And hell, you believe it when she does her job correctly. Doesn't matter if she's a 2 bit whore on the street corner (F2P mmos) or an uptown escort (P2P mmos). The bottom line is separating you from your money and getting you to come back time and time again.
Some people understand the relationship and what in entails (entertainment and temporary escapism in exchange for money). So they have no issue with paying for a mutual agreement. And some, like the above poster, happen to get so caught up in the dream that they start to blur the line between fantasy and reality. Nothing good can come from misplaced dependency. And more players need to make sure they understand the rules of engagement before they get so emotionally attached. It's always less messy if you retain the power to end these relationships first.
Problem is, EVE players paid and are paying for an uptown escort (fine young women in my opinion :P), and getting the nasty diseased stuff sold in the bad part of town. That's bound to get people riled up.
I already said this in one psot, but at the expense of being redundant: EVE players are reacting to RMT's like chimpanzee's flinging poo, the problem is that CCP might get their faces ripped off like some poor lady did recently. If even half of the players that threatened to cancel their subs have done so, (I believe more than half have done so), CCP is starting to feel this patch/migration towards RMT's hurt their bottom line.
The question is whether the analysts believe that in the long run, RMT's would be more profitable. Both sides have valid points. I mean, on CCP's behalf, some FTP's make BANK off of compulsive players that can't control their spending habits, why shouldn't they capitalize on it as well, afterall they are a profit organization?
The last salient point I'd like to make is this: with as many fansy analysts and scientists CCP claims they have, I don't believe they really understand the composition of their player base. IMO, EVE players are above average intelligence hardcore MMORPGers; play the game and get successful to understand what I am talking about. There are good and bad things associated with thistype of player base. Give them (collectively) what they desire in a game, and you'll have the worst type of fanatics rooting for you, smart ones. However, insult them and/ore their intelligence... and well, you might deserve the NGE-type event that might occur.
The line is hard to draw. Do you cater to the wants of your player base? Do you aim for profits and risk alienating some? Either way, CCP handled it badly with their devblog yesterday. It's bad policy to curse and belittle your customers (unless the practice has already been established, and is excepted).
2cents
Romp
PS. Not gunna bother editing this post for grammar as I don't care either way. Pure sandboxes such as EVE don't strike my fancy. Neither do Pure Themeparks though.
This leads me to believe that they intend to do it at some point and don't want to be on the record saying that they won't. Could be a sort of "prep" so that when it does happen people aren't shocked.
Well this is going to break one way or the other that's for sure. The protest in Jita have been going strong for over 24 hours and show no sign of letting up.
I think it's pretty clear that there are plans for a more robust shop. Why would you only introduce vanity items in a game where no one can see you?
I think the deception factor is a big part of this. This company has in the past (and may now) had some ground breaking ideas, but no cares because they feel they have been lied too.
Either that, or it's just a first class troll and another major drama for this game. The latter seems unlikely though.
I left EVE after 3 years because of how expensive decent ships were, and not having the time for the in game day job EVE requires.
This whole fiasco is pathetic. CCP's greed is massive. a bil isk for a lousy shirt? Really CCP? you think you are that good? cash shop isn't the big issue. Cash shop AND totally outragous prices for everything is the double whammy.
Comments
"Damn those cretins invading EVE. Those ADD-riddled children should stay in WoW, where they can be appeased with shiny, $25 mounts, instead of coming here and appealing to CCP with their numbers, who in turn make design decisions that ruin the game I love."
Why not just say that? Truth is, I sympathized with the author until the final paragraphs. EVE was simply not generating enough revenue to match CCP's ambition (which is surprising, since it always displayed gradual but steady subscription growth, one of its best aspects and a good argument for the claim that sandboxes are still present and relevant in today's MMO scene). Where else are they going to get more subscribers? Would you rather they doubled the subscription fee, or something along those lines, to generate more income? I think CCP bit off more than it could chew with rapid expansion and projects like DUST and World of Darkness. If their flagship game was suffering, they should've ensured its health before looking at other venues. That's just a problem with CCP's business philosophy and lack of professionalism overall. It started as an indie company, after all.
Letting people trade game time among themselves is not the same as selling isk directly. Creating currency out of thin air is a horrible thing, while creating a token for people to trade with isn't (as long as it stays a token, and not something with a gameplay value)
I fully agree, you're right everyone has a right to pull their CC info. Which is the best way to say how you feel about this. If they lose enough it actually hurts them, gathering thousands of player's in an area to create lag only hurts the players around you.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's truly a beautiful thing what those players are doing. As a long time EVE player, I find it to be quite the fitting response.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Let me put it this way.
They have already tried to put gameplay affecting items into game twice (remaps & scorpion). While those wheren't that bad they whent down in a sea of flames and got pulled.
After this, where it should be quite clear that we don't want MT for non-vanity items, a newsletter appears discussing in depth various ideas on how they could implement MT for non-vanity items.
A couple of rage threadnaughts emarge going hundreds of pages long where players are demanding that CCP give them a firm answer about weather or not they are doing MT for non-vanity items. CCP say a blog will be released in a day address the main concerns.
A dev blog is released addressing some concerns on pricing and completely ignoring the MT for non-vanity items issue was posted. About half an hour (or 543 posts later) he responds saying he knows he didn't adress everything, saying he'll address more stuff later but not even naming the MT for non-vanity items issue.
For reference I just did a quick count on the last page (the thread is too long to count the whole thing) and 12/30 posts on that page specifically reference this issue. A lot of others where just "I'm leaving" or "fuck you ccp" or "you missed the issue" and didn't specifically reference MT for non-vanity so I didn't count them.
It's painfully obvious they are avoiding this issue and have been for a long time, considering the levels of rage focused on this issue atm, for them to try to ignore it at this point can only be bad news. Maybe they will change their mind and it won't come in, but thinking they aren't trying to bring it in is wishful thinking or outright denial.
Into the breach meatbags
Yeah. This is textbook "Bad Damage Control."
''/\/\'' Posted using Iphone bunni
( o.o)
(")(")
**This bunny was cloned from bunnies belonging to Gobla and is part of the Quizzical Fanclub and the The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club**
However did you read about what fearless is? There are two sides to every coin, in this case one must take one with the other. Then flip it to see which side lands up, that's about as much as you can trust either side of this debacle.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If you can't see why people are upset, this might explain a bit more.
CCP promised they would never sell non-vanity items. So the playerbase's fair attitude is: why are you discussing what you promised you'd never do? And the dev response was: Didn't the expac rollout go well? We're super pleased, sorry you don't like the high prices of the vanity items, suck it up, hope that answers all your concerns.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I didn't say there is no reason to be upset, I did say I don't think there is reason to be "NGE upset" though at least not yet.
The reasoning means little in the end though, only what actually happens. He says the memo was purposefully exaggerated, the fans say full on P2W MT is incoming. Who is right, who is wrong? Like I said at this point it's not much different than calling out a flipping coin. Who knows...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I didn't say that people shouldn't raise hell about it, in fact I think it's a good thing. To use the relationship analogy that I used before and that the letter writer was so fond of, it would be equivalent to confronting your partner and saying 'wtf were you thinking?', where as automatically concluding the worst without even having waited and learnt more about what's really going on and what they plan to do sounds to me the equivalent of packing your bags and moving out without hearing what your partner has to say, after years of being together and without your partner having committed any act of adultery (yet).
All of a sudden you get people concluding of CCP being a new 'ultimate evil', instead of the company that did provide them with a lot of fun and a great game for years, which is quite a switch in thinking to make based upon 1 email.
Do you have a link to that statement, did they say it like that literally, 'no RMT in EVE ever?'
It seems to me that this letter was just out, merely a day or 2 ago? I haven't seen any official statements linked in this thread, if people have them why not post them here so we can see what they say? So, if there is, I'm interested in the source link. If they're dismissing the 'pay 2 win' options in that letter, then it should be obvious that you won't see things like that at least for quite a while.
If they're saying things officially that are in contrast of what they said before (quote pls from what they said before) and in favor of 'pay 2 win' related items that will be implemented in one of the future patches, then that sounds bad and provide ample reason to make the decision to leave when those updates hit the scene.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
In the mean while I resubbed. So did quite a few others if you are to trust the server numbers. I'll laugh myself to death if the server break thier peek concurrent users this Sunday.
Nerd rage is going nowhere. CCP wont say no to MT. THey ahev allready comitted to that, to a lesser degree in EvE, but as the base of DUST 514 and WoD. If it will stay vanity in EvE, only time will tell. If it turns out that they can exchange thier current threadnoughting, e-rageing, bunch of whiners with people who like to pay a sub as well as for a few vanity items, they will of course do that.
Seriously. Who could blame them?
After checking around, I can see why you asked for links and the like... With the current mess about this stuff, it's a bear digging up some of those older posts and what not.
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/3316/shadownomicrotransactio.jpg
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1341909&page=1#7
That's one set... tired of digging right now.
I cried a bit inside only by remembering the good times i had in eve
good post
A perfectly valid goodbye letter. I had always envisioned myself playing EVE Online for many years to come, but I feel this cash shop will only lead to bigger and uglier things.
Bump for OP
- Adamant Stehl
I'm sorry but this ruined it;
"P.S. I've cancelled the credit card that I gave you to use"
No one with any common sense would do that. Hence, this letter is just a scam/bs letter that someone wrote to make a point and they ruined the chance to do so with the last sentence.
##Best SWTOR of 2011
Posted by I_Return - SWTOR - "Forget the UI the characters and all ofhe nitpicking bullshit" "Greatest MMO Ever Created"
##Fail Thread Title of 2011
Originally posted by daveospice
"this game looks like crap?"
It’s common practice for many gamers to use a pre-paid type of card for each game they play. This way they don’t have to give out information linked to a banking account to a company that might be compromised. I pretty sure he was referring to something like this. The statement didn’t seem strange to me.
I'm starting to wonder if the leak of Fearless was a leak after all. Is it possible that it was something akin to what politicians do when they are thinking about pushing for certain laws. Putting out "trial balloons" so to speak. I think its fairly useful to gauge the response. The only problem with this idea that I see is the fact that they won't come out and say they won't put non-vanity items in the shop. If they would just do that then half of the complaints would end. This leads me to believe that they intend to do it at some point and don't want to be on the record saying that they won't. Could be a sort of "prep" so that when it does happen people aren't shocked.
This is what happens when you give your heart to basically what amounts to a John/prostitute relationship. You're giving money to someone who MAKES you think you're the only one that matters. And hell, you believe it when she does her job correctly. Doesn't matter if she's a 2 bit whore on the street corner (F2P mmos) or an uptown escort (P2P mmos). The bottom line is separating you from your money and getting you to come back time and time again.
Some people understand the relationship and what in entails (entertainment and temporary escapism in exchange for money). So they have no issue with paying for a mutual agreement. And some, like the above poster, happen to get so caught up in the dream that they start to blur the line between fantasy and reality. Nothing good can come from misplaced dependency. And more players need to make sure they understand the rules of engagement before they get so emotionally attached. It's always less messy if you retain the power to end these relationships first.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Problem is, EVE players paid and are paying for an uptown escort (fine young women in my opinion :P), and getting the nasty diseased stuff sold in the bad part of town. That's bound to get people riled up.
I already said this in one psot, but at the expense of being redundant: EVE players are reacting to RMT's like chimpanzee's flinging poo, the problem is that CCP might get their faces ripped off like some poor lady did recently. If even half of the players that threatened to cancel their subs have done so, (I believe more than half have done so), CCP is starting to feel this patch/migration towards RMT's hurt their bottom line.
The question is whether the analysts believe that in the long run, RMT's would be more profitable. Both sides have valid points. I mean, on CCP's behalf, some FTP's make BANK off of compulsive players that can't control their spending habits, why shouldn't they capitalize on it as well, afterall they are a profit organization?
The last salient point I'd like to make is this: with as many fansy analysts and scientists CCP claims they have, I don't believe they really understand the composition of their player base. IMO, EVE players are above average intelligence hardcore MMORPGers; play the game and get successful to understand what I am talking about. There are good and bad things associated with thistype of player base. Give them (collectively) what they desire in a game, and you'll have the worst type of fanatics rooting for you, smart ones. However, insult them and/ore their intelligence... and well, you might deserve the NGE-type event that might occur.
The line is hard to draw. Do you cater to the wants of your player base? Do you aim for profits and risk alienating some? Either way, CCP handled it badly with their devblog yesterday. It's bad policy to curse and belittle your customers (unless the practice has already been established, and is excepted).
2cents
Romp
PS. Not gunna bother editing this post for grammar as I don't care either way. Pure sandboxes such as EVE don't strike my fancy. Neither do Pure Themeparks though.
Well this is going to break one way or the other that's for sure. The protest in Jita have been going strong for over 24 hours and show no sign of letting up.
I think it's pretty clear that there are plans for a more robust shop. Why would you only introduce vanity items in a game where no one can see you?
I think the deception factor is a big part of this. This company has in the past (and may now) had some ground breaking ideas, but no cares because they feel they have been lied too.
Either that, or it's just a first class troll and another major drama for this game. The latter seems unlikely though.
All they have left to do is sell out to $ony hehe.
ok not for nothing not all casual players are stupid slow n retarded thank you...some of us have real lives outside of mmos that require our attention
so say we all
I left EVE after 3 years because of how expensive decent ships were, and not having the time for the in game day job EVE requires.
This whole fiasco is pathetic. CCP's greed is massive. a bil isk for a lousy shirt? Really CCP? you think you are that good? cash shop isn't the big issue. Cash shop AND totally outragous prices for everything is the double whammy.