In addition, most positive feedback I see for SWTOR typically raves about how the game lets you make your own decisions with dialog, it pulls you into the story, the voice acting is great. Once again, I see a single player game. All of this praise could have been lauded upon KOTOR. I really haven't seen much feedback for SWTOR that praises the MMORPG aspects of the game.
Again, your viewpoint is hopelessly flawed and uninformed.
I can post whole pages of people that played the game, professional and regular players, where all kinds of features of SWTOR are praised, from its multplayer aspects to its worlds to the combat and the classes, to the UI and to the gameplay feel. If you want to, I can post them right here, pages full of praise about other stuff than the story (something tells me that you'll either skip this comment and prefer to ignore it or say that it won't be needed or something else negative), if you like.
Do you have any links to these reviews? I'm not saying this to "call you out" but I would honestly like to read them. I recently spent some time watching videos and reading stuff about SWTOR but didn't find anything like that. I'm sure it's out there though, I haven't been following SWTOR as closely as GW2 so I probably just missed it.
Also...just because someone doesn't stubbornly display blind and dogged positivity for a game does not mean they are "the enemy." I try to read stuff about games and form opinions about them, whether they be positive or negative. Yes, right now I am more in favor of GW2 than SWTOR, but who knows, maybe the articles you link will change my mind.
I've seen some raving as well, but the ones I've seen have been on... other sites. Just have to look harder.
Sorry, but playing the game for 8 hours, on a BETA version, sure as hell isn't enough time to get the full "story" aspect of the game and how it melds with the MMORPG side of the game. Once again, he's applying a style of review used on single player console games to an MMORPG. Which we all know, you really cannot fully experience or appreciate without a good month of gameplay under your belt.
Especially when there are 8 classes spread across both factions, and each class has their own storyline. A Sith Inquisitor isn't going to have the same story as a Jedi Consular. Different experiences, different stories, different choices to make, etc.
It's like playing Mass Effect 1 for 8 hours and being able to talk knowledgably about the entire Mass Effect series. Or spending 8 hours in EVE and claiming that you understand exactly how the game works.
The vast majority of press related to this game has been overwhelmingly positive. There have only been a few negative previews... which I think is normal for any game and far from indicative of a problem.
In addition, most positive feedback I see for SWTOR typically raves about how the game lets you make your own decisions with dialog, it pulls you into the story, the voice acting is great. Once again, I see a single player game. All of this praise could have been lauded upon KOTOR. I really haven't seen much feedback for SWTOR that praises the MMORPG aspects of the game.
Again, your viewpoint is hopelessly flawed and uninformed.
I can post whole pages of people that played the game, professional and regular players, where all kinds of features of SWTOR are praised, from its multplayer aspects to its worlds to the combat and the classes, to the UI and to the gameplay feel. If you want to, I can post them right here, pages full of praise about other stuff than the story (something tells me that you'll either skip this comment and prefer to ignore it or say that it won't be needed or something else negative), if you like.
Do you have any links to these reviews? I'm not saying this to "call you out" but I would honestly like to read them. I recently spent some time watching videos and reading stuff about SWTOR but didn't find anything like that. I'm sure it's out there though, I haven't been following SWTOR as closely as GW2 so I probably just missed it.
Also...just because someone doesn't stubbornly display blind and dogged positivity for a game does not mean they are "the enemy." I try to read stuff about games and form opinions about them, whether they be positive or negative. Yes, right now I am more in favor of GW2 than SWTOR, but who knows, maybe the articles you link will change my mind.
I've seen some raving as well, but the ones I've seen have been on... other sites. Just have to look harder.
Heheh yeah...it is a bit annoying how if you express ANY negativity you instantly get grouped with the "haters" and attacked by 3 or 4 fanboys. I didn't think my post was "haterish," it was designed to troll or anything, I was just expressing an opinion. In fact, I even indicated that I would change my mind if I learned something different.
Do you have any links to these reviews? I'm not saying this to "call you out" but I would honestly like to read them. I recently spent some time watching videos and reading stuff about SWTOR but didn't find anything like that. I'm sure it's out there though, I haven't been following SWTOR as closely as GW2 so I probably just missed it.
Also...just because someone doesn't stubbornly display blind and dogged positivity for a game does not mean they are "the enemy." I try to read stuff about games and form opinions about them, whether they be positive or negative. Yes, right now I am more in favor of GW2 than SWTOR, but who knows, maybe the articles you link will change my mind.
Of course. I think this one as a starting point works best, because it contains a lot of quotes from a large variety of people and links to the original sources.
I'm all for people seeing the good and the bad aspects of games and having a more balanced out viewpoint, instead of laser focusing on either purely-positive or purely-negative, so anything I can do to help with that, I'll do
Originally posted by Creslin321
Heheh yeah...it is a bit annoying how if you express ANY negativity you instantly get grouped with the "haters" and attacked by 3 or 4 fanboys. I didn't think my post was "haterish," it was designed to troll or anything, I was just expressing an opinion. In fact, I even indicated that I would change my mind if I learned something different.
Yeah, it happens, often because (some) SWTOR haters/critics are so blatantly unreasonable or tunnelvision negative about it, in such frequency that it makes fans like me visiting those forums often think 'oh, here's another one of those again'. You only have to look at the OP and realise that the article was posted a few hours earlier elsewhere on these forums with the request of that first poster not to use it to instigate a flamewar... yet OP goes ahead, circumvents the request of that first poster by opening up a 2nd thread in the SWTOR forum to do exactly that, use it to bash/flamebait.
However, fans aren't the only ones quick-judging, a lot of times I've been called an SWTOR 'fanboi' by 'haters'/critics even when I've made it clear in other posts that I'm looking forward more to GW2 and TSW and that SWTOR isn't the dream MMORPG I had envisioned it could be. Even if I do see flaws and design choices I dislike, it doesn't mean I'm not interested in SWTOR, enough to want to play it.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
There's a lot more on the SW:TOR website, particularly in the "Everything we know about the Old Republic so far" thread in general discussion on the forums, linkapalooza in there. The forums are down at the moment so I can't give you the exact link - sorry about that, but you should find it easily enough.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm not an SWTOR hater, in fact I hope the game does really well and I am intending to purchase it. However, I've always had a niggling fear about SWTOR, and this guy's preview hits pretty close to home. My fear is that SWTOR will essentially be a good single player RPG with a mediocre MMORPG tacked onto it.
Why do I have this fear you ask? Because everything I've learned about the game points in this direction. BW says they are going to focus on STORY, it's all about STORY, you get to have your own STORY. Well guess what, STORY is a single player feature. Dialog options, cinematics, voice acting, all designed to be experienced by a single player.
In addition, most positive feedback I see for SWTOR typically raves about how the game lets you make your own decisions with dialog, it pulls you into the story, the voice acting is great. Once again, I see a single player game. All of this praise could have been lauded upon KOTOR. I really haven't seen much feedback for SWTOR that praises the MMORPG aspects of the game.
So knowing this, I always thought that to really succeed, SWTOR would have to somehow integrate the "single player" story aspects of the game into the MMORPG aspects of the game to form some kind of cohesive whole. I really couldn't think of how they could possibly do this, but I remained hopeful. However, reading this guy's preview...he specifically says that SWTOR fails to do this. He says that the story aspects of the game feel separate from the MMORPG aspects of the game, and this worries me.
Anyway, I hope he's either mistaken or that BW is able forge the story and the MMORPG aspects into a cohesive whole before release. But I'm definitely worried.
But isn't that what the whole multi-player dialogue thing is all about? Bringing story to grouping? Letting choices made by players (kill the captain/save the captain) affect how a flashpoint pans out? Yet still recording your personal choice so your personal intent (good/bad) is ultimately rewarded.
He's saying that you can't group up for your class quests... I'm pretty sure I recall reading that you could do that, but only with a player of a different class, ie - two Sith Inquisitors can't duo class story content. I could be wrong here, but if that's the restriction then it makes sense. Your personal story is your personal story. If what you encounter is affected by choices you make, bringing another player of the same class who has made different choices just plain would not work. Even if I'm wrong and you can't group period on personal story quests - well, why would you want to? If that's the only content that's gated off from being "social" then I reckon I can live with that.
Heroic areas, flashpoints and endgame operations will all require grouping, and it looks like some of the world arcs will too (the bit they showed at E3 from Alderaan for example). I think (hope) that they have it all figured out, and that adding story will not just enhance things for solo players but also for grouped ones.
The grouping dialog stuff actually sounds pretty cool, do you have a link where I could read more about this?
you have those links but i'll give a brief overview of what you can find
Group dialog:
Each player can when grouped outside of a personal story quest can affect the story. This is played out by each time the dialog wheel shows up a player can click the option they want, a dice roll is made then displayed next to the player portrait in the group window. Who ever gets the highest will both turn the story in that direction and also be the one who actually plays out that scenario. Yes if your grouped other people CAN affect the quest your on. This obviously as i stated before does not occur in the personal story. Others can group with you but the story is about you, so only you will change how things happen. This can occur from anywhere from solo quests, group quests, world arcs and flash points, doubtful by their nature that PvP would have such a thing but i'm not ruling anything out. Operations (raids) have already been ruled out that there would be multi-group dialog.
You also get rewards for doing these group dialogs in the form of social points which you can use to get various loot from social vendors (no idea whats on them)
Also each person brings their own (due to the players having voices) own little thing to the table as per their character. Not to mention someone elses companions can interact in your story if they are brought along.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I'm not an SWTOR hater, in fact I hope the game does really well and I am intending to purchase it. However, I've always had a niggling fear about SWTOR, and this guy's preview hits pretty close to home. My fear is that SWTOR will essentially be a good single player RPG with a mediocre MMORPG tacked onto it.
Why do I have this fear you ask? Because everything I've learned about the game points in this direction. BW says they are going to focus on STORY, it's all about STORY, you get to have your own STORY. Well guess what, STORY is a single player feature. Dialog options, cinematics, voice acting, all designed to be experienced by a single player.
In addition, most positive feedback I see for SWTOR typically raves about how the game lets you make your own decisions with dialog, it pulls you into the story, the voice acting is great. Once again, I see a single player game. All of this praise could have been lauded upon KOTOR. I really haven't seen much feedback for SWTOR that praises the MMORPG aspects of the game.
So knowing this, I always thought that to really succeed, SWTOR would have to somehow integrate the "single player" story aspects of the game into the MMORPG aspects of the game to form some kind of cohesive whole. I really couldn't think of how they could possibly do this, but I remained hopeful. However, reading this guy's preview...he specifically says that SWTOR fails to do this. He says that the story aspects of the game feel separate from the MMORPG aspects of the game, and this worries me.
Anyway, I hope he's either mistaken or that BW is able forge the story and the MMORPG aspects into a cohesive whole before release. But I'm definitely worried.
But isn't that what the whole multi-player dialogue thing is all about? Bringing story to grouping? Letting choices made by players (kill the captain/save the captain) affect how a flashpoint pans out? Yet still recording your personal choice so your personal intent (good/bad) is ultimately rewarded.
He's saying that you can't group up for your class quests... I'm pretty sure I recall reading that you could do that, but only with a player of a different class, ie - two Sith Inquisitors can't duo class story content. I could be wrong here, but if that's the restriction then it makes sense. Your personal story is your personal story. If what you encounter is affected by choices you make, bringing another player of the same class who has made different choices just plain would not work. Even if I'm wrong and you can't group period on personal story quests - well, why would you want to? If that's the only content that's gated off from being "social" then I reckon I can live with that.
Heroic areas, flashpoints and endgame operations will all require grouping, and it looks like some of the world arcs will too (the bit they showed at E3 from Alderaan for example). I think (hope) that they have it all figured out, and that adding story will not just enhance things for solo players but also for grouped ones.
The grouping dialog stuff actually sounds pretty cool, do you have a link where I could read more about this?
you have those links but i'll give a brief overview of what you can find
Group dialog:
Each player can when grouped outside of a personal story quest can affect the story. This is played out by each time the dialog wheel shows up a player can click the option they want, a dice roll is made then displayed next to the player portrait in the group window. Who ever gets the highest will both turn the story in that direction and also be the one who actually plays out that scenario. Yes if your grouped other people CAN affect the quest your on. This obviously as i stated before does not occur in the personal story. Others can group with you but the story is about you, so only you will change how things happen. This can occur from anywhere from solo quests, group quests, world arcs and flash points, doubtful by their nature that PvP would have such a thing but i'm not ruling anything out. Operations (raids) have already been ruled out that there would be multi-group dialog.
You also get rewards for doing these group dialogs in the form of social points which you can use to get various loot from social vendors (no idea whats on them)
Also each person brings their own (due to the players having voices) own little thing to the table as per their character. Not to mention someone elses companions can interact in your story if they are brought along.
Thanks, this is really helpful. Those other links were very informative, but a bit too informative lol . Deluge of info. Still, I did read a lot of it so thanks to Maverick and company for posting those links.
So it sounds like it's basically like rolling for loot, except your roll for decisions. Doesn't sound too bad. Still, I do worry a bit that your group may sound schizophrenic if you have two people making very different decisions all the time . I wonder if there are any situations where your character can just "chime in" kind of like companions do in other BW games. That would be cool and make it feel like you're actually in a party.
social points are currently awarded to the player that speaks during the group dialogue. And from what i understand, you don't trade social points to the vendor, its more like another form of leveling. more points you get, more teirs you unlock. so when you go to buy something from the vendor it will say something like "Teir II" in the tool tip as a prereq for wearing it.
Social points are added whenever you win a roll in a group dialogue scene or achieve a specific objective while grouped. These appear in a small blue box on the bottom of the screen. Social points accumulate to give you new social levels or tiers.
it was also talked about what was seen at a social vendor in this episode of The Republic. sorry i dont have a time code for it off hand. edit - around 24:30
For really, really big decisions, its made by vote and majority wins. however rest of the time it takes the rolls of same choices and adds them together and which ever choice has the highest total, wins and highest roll within that group speaks. so if 3 people picked the same thing but all had rolled crappy rolls that only add up to say 50 and the the 1 person that picked differently rolls say 96, he wins and gets to speak. but if the total of the 3 was say 75 and the one other guy got 70, then whoever had the highest roll of the 3 in the winning group gets to speak. from what we have heard you can roll anywhere between 1-100 with chances at critical sucess which will boost it over 100 and crit failures which is 0. its been hinted at that items in social vendors could have a stat that boosts your chances on dialogue rolls.
Not really about group dialog but i found this pertaining to flashpoints which are group in nature
Flashpoints are not always linear. Dialogue choices and performing bonus objectives open up other aspects of the instance such as more bosses and more ways to achive Victory - Bioware
So depending on who wins will also change how the dungeon is set up and sometime even bosses that you fight. Not sure but it may even be possible to fight a different boss because of a decision.
As for the extremes, yeah it may seem that way but it depends on who wins the rolls, I don't see you having 30 lines of dialog in each dialog option, maybe 3 or max 4 at a time per group dialog. NPC says something, group member 3 says something, NPC says something, group member 1 says something.
Sometimes like how this one plays out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0nqdbiy3bE- from start to 3:30 after that the dev explains what these dialog options have until about 4:05, after that it's just flashpoint combat.
It will be one character...then another.
This is also the same flashpoint but if you choose the other option.
As for the original thread comment, meh not everyone will like the game he actually gave a decent review on the game. As for the OP itself, i'm not sure what the point of the post other then to cause people to response in an agressive/defensive manner. Beyond that what is there to achieve?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Wait. One reviewr kinda doesn't like this game? SEE!!?? I told ya I told ya!! This here game is DDDOOOOOMMMEDDDD!!! With a capital OOOM.Oh and according to the same guy so is GW2.
Indeed its true. We are all doomed, my lord. V_V
p.s. The powers that be have granted me a new title. I hope it is to your liking.
edit: oh can't believe we didn't mention the holocom feature for group dialogue. say your body has to go turn in a quest but you want to go to some vendors and don't feel like walking all the way back. well you can still participate in the dialogue with him. when he goes to talk to the npc, you will get an option to join via holocom and if you accept, you will appear as a hologram next to your buddy and be able to still get dialogue options. you just won't get any option that would invovle anything physical like punching someone or shooting them. there are some limits such as you need to be a minimum distance from the quest npc to be given the option, you can't be in combat, and you must be on the same planet.
Reading the review, it sounded like a pretty reasonable, even handed review to me....
The reviewer praised the quality of the story and presentation (things that Bioware itself have stressed when talking up the games strong points) ..... but didn't find actual gameplay itself to be anything particularly exciting or compeling.
Since gameplay was a more important factor then presentation/story, he didn't find TOR particularly appealing to him.
I suspect those sentiments would oddly echo my own, if I ever end up trying TOR (assuming they offer a free trial at some point in the future). At least everything I've read about it so far would indicate that.
I like story in my games, but only if I have a very active part in creating it myself....which is not really the hallmark of Bioware games specificaly and to a lessor degree themeparks in general.
If I want to experience a quality scripted story that I have little to no part in creating and/or good cinematics & presentation, then there are lots of movies that can fit that bill. YMMV.
Whatever the OP's motivation was or wasn't.......the actual reviewer seemed pretty fair in the manner he wrote the article.
Reading the review, it sounded like a pretty reasonable, even handed review to me....
The reviewer praised the quality of the story and presentation (things that Bioware itself have stressed when talking up the games strong points) ..... but didn't find actual gameplay itself to be anything particularly exciting or compeling. Since gameplay was a more important factor then presentation/story, he didn't find TOR particularly appealing to him. I suspect those sentiments would oddly echo my own, if I ever end up trying TOR (assuming they offer a free trial at some point in the future). At least everything I've read about it so far would indicate that. I like story in my games, but only if I have a very active part in creating it myself....which is not really the hallmark of Bioware games specificaly and to a lessor degree themeparks in general. If I want to experience a quality scripted story that I have little to no part in creating and/or good cinematics & presentation, then there are lots of movies that can fit that bill. YMMV. Whatever the OP's motivation was or wasn't.......the actual reviewer seemed pretty fair in the manner he wrote the article.
I'm not an SWTOR hater, in fact I hope the game does really well and I am intending to purchase it. However, I've always had a niggling fear about SWTOR, and this guy's preview hits pretty close to home. My fear is that SWTOR will essentially be a good single player RPG with a mediocre MMORPG tacked onto it. Why do I have this fear you ask? Because everything I've learned about the game points in this direction. BW says they are going to focus on STORY, it's all about STORY, you get to have your own STORY. Well guess what, STORY is a single player feature. Dialog options, cinematics, voice acting, all designed to be experienced by a single player. In addition, most positive feedback I see for SWTOR typically raves about how the game lets you make your own decisions with dialog, it pulls you into the story, the voice acting is great. Once again, I see a single player game. All of this praise could have been lauded upon KOTOR. I really haven't seen much feedback for SWTOR that praises the MMORPG aspects of the game. So knowing this, I always thought that to really succeed, SWTOR would have to somehow integrate the "single player" story aspects of the game into the MMORPG aspects of the game to form some kind of cohesive whole. I really couldn't think of how they could possibly do this, but I remained hopeful. However, reading this guy's preview...he specifically says that SWTOR fails to do this. He says that the story aspects of the game feel separate from the MMORPG aspects of the game, and this worries me. Anyway, I hope he's either mistaken or that BW is able forge the story and the MMORPG aspects into a cohesive whole before release. But I'm definitely worried.
Everyone has covered most of this with links and info, but i would like to add one thing. The 8 hours of game play was on a starter planet. This looks to be like other MMOs noob areas that are teaching you about the game along with combat and skill use. It has been said that these starter planets have 60% solo play and 40% group play. So this part of the game will not integrate the two very well. But once you leave your starter area. The solo play flips to 40% and group play is 60%. Then after you head out to other planets, the solo play drops to as low as 10%.
So grouping will be required for much of the best parts of the game(for some anyway). The multi-hour long group story quest chains are on every planet after the starter and home worlds. Could be on home worlds as well so i am not sure on that. But having to be in a group to even follow the world story seems like a way to integrate the solo class story and world group to story. So the article trying to say there will be little to no integration from 8 hours on a starter planet is laughable at best.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them? R.A.Salvatore
Wait. One reviewr kinda doesn't like this game? SEE!!?? I told ya I told ya!! This here game is DDDOOOOOMMMEDDDD!!! With a capital OOOM.Oh and according to the same guy so is GW2.
Indeed its true. We are all doomed, my lord. V_V
p.s. The powers that be have granted me a new title. I hope it is to your liking.
LOL!! That is freakin AWESOME!!!
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
... and in a horrible twist on fate, SW:ToR, GW2 and TSW all turn out to be truly horrible broken games, and MMO players end up flocking en masse to Arche Age, signalling a shift in the gameplaying market that ends up with the Western game market a barren wasteland full of titles nobody plays, while everybody discusses how AWESOME the latest Korean game is, and how they're glad it's not an 'American Grinder'.
I have no idea why everyone wants to try to argue over GW2 and SWTOR. I hope they are both great and I highly doubt either of them will fail. They both appeal to different groups of people....or in some cases the same but for different reasons. I am happy because my wife and I will probably play both and we will be able to do it because only one has a subscription plan.
To the people who think that SWTOR will fail...... I think of it kind of like WOW was for Blizzard.... it comes with its own fanbase. Bioware has millions of people who religiously play and follow their games for the stories alone. One just has to look at the Mass Effect series to see that. I think Bioware will do what Blizzard did for lots of people.... it will introduce a whole new group of people to MMO's........ and that is even before you get to the Star Wars fans who are pretty rabid and nuts in their own right. There is no chance that this game will fail as long as it is playable on low and mid range systems.
Wow the TOR bashing in this community is getting rediculous. It amazes me how many people think they know everything about a game that doesn't even have a launch date yet.
"Here’s the thing, compared to Star Wars: The Old Republic (the last MMO I previewed), (censored) is spectacular - it feels fresh, it feels alive and it feels diverse… three adjectivesthat I’d never use to describe BioWare’s upcoming MMO, at least from what I’ve seen so far."
Bad press keeps coming in...
Funny how so many of the testers, including two I know directly are saying the exact opposite. I remember when Guild Wars first came out and "the press" said the same thing. I trust people I know who are gamers like me. If i trusted the press I never would have played Guild Wars, Jade Empire and EVE online all of which got similar writeups and concerns from "the press" when they came out. For the record, most of the write ups thus far have been positive. Including the more reputable and trusted sites.
Exactly. Haters are going to hate and it's cool to hate on TOR because it's an EA/Bioware game. {mod edit}
"Here’s the thing, compared to Star Wars: The Old Republic (the last MMO I previewed), (censored) is spectacular - it feels fresh, it feels alive and it feels diverse… three adjectivesthat I’d never use to describe BioWare’s upcoming MMO, at least from what I’ve seen so far."
Bad press keeps coming in...
Oh please. What's the saying? "Opinions are like aXXXXXXs, everyone has one".
To give an example:
Did you see the lord of the rings movies? you might have. You might even have liked them. Many people do. Heck, even people who don't like them recognize that they are a cinematic achievement.
but my brother hates them. He thinks they are bad movies, bad cinema, bad acting, and essentially video games turned into movies.
he can't go on enough about how much he hates them. To top it off, he cites the clerks II "star wars vs Lord of the rings" bit all the time.
I'm sure other people must hate them as well. so if I was to listen to my brother and others like him who think that Lord of the Rings is the worst cinemtaic crap to come out in the past few years should I just nod my head and say "yup, bad reviews keep coming in".
Or do I see the movies for myself (which I did and I do in fact own the extended versions) and evaluate them on what I think a good Lord of the Rings movie should have, evaluate them to my taste and my expectations?
I think the latter.
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Comments
I've seen some raving as well, but the ones I've seen have been on... other sites. Just have to look harder.
Especially when there are 8 classes spread across both factions, and each class has their own storyline. A Sith Inquisitor isn't going to have the same story as a Jedi Consular. Different experiences, different stories, different choices to make, etc.
It's like playing Mass Effect 1 for 8 hours and being able to talk knowledgably about the entire Mass Effect series. Or spending 8 hours in EVE and claiming that you understand exactly how the game works.
The vast majority of press related to this game has been overwhelmingly positive. There have only been a few negative previews... which I think is normal for any game and far from indicative of a problem.
Heheh yeah...it is a bit annoying how if you express ANY negativity you instantly get grouped with the "haters" and attacked by 3 or 4 fanboys. I didn't think my post was "haterish," it was designed to troll or anything, I was just expressing an opinion. In fact, I even indicated that I would change my mind if I learned something different.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Of course. I think this one as a starting point works best, because it contains a lot of quotes from a large variety of people and links to the original sources.
I'm all for people seeing the good and the bad aspects of games and having a more balanced out viewpoint, instead of laser focusing on either purely-positive or purely-negative, so anything I can do to help with that, I'll do
Yeah, it happens, often because (some) SWTOR haters/critics are so blatantly unreasonable or tunnelvision negative about it, in such frequency that it makes fans like me visiting those forums often think 'oh, here's another one of those again'. You only have to look at the OP and realise that the article was posted a few hours earlier elsewhere on these forums with the request of that first poster not to use it to instigate a flamewar... yet OP goes ahead, circumvents the request of that first poster by opening up a 2nd thread in the SWTOR forum to do exactly that, use it to bash/flamebait.
However, fans aren't the only ones quick-judging, a lot of times I've been called an SWTOR 'fanboi' by 'haters'/critics even when I've made it clear in other posts that I'm looking forward more to GW2 and TSW and that SWTOR isn't the dream MMORPG I had envisioned it could be. Even if I do see flaws and design choices I dislike, it doesn't mean I'm not interested in SWTOR, enough to want to play it.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I think Mike B covered it somewhat in his previews on this site (if you go to http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/367/view/features and rummage around under the previews tab).
Massively did a bit on it too, last year ( http://massively.joystiq.com/2010/07/02/finally-bioware-unveils-a-swtor-multiplayer-combat-video/ ) - it has video so you can see the conversation.
There's a lot more on the SW:TOR website, particularly in the "Everything we know about the Old Republic so far" thread in general discussion on the forums, linkapalooza in there. The forums are down at the moment so I can't give you the exact link - sorry about that, but you should find it easily enough.
Here it is. Forums aren't down anymore
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Well, then they're misbehaving on me....
Time for a cookie clear-out methinks...
Thanks for posting the link!
you have those links but i'll give a brief overview of what you can find
Group dialog:
Each player can when grouped outside of a personal story quest can affect the story. This is played out by each time the dialog wheel shows up a player can click the option they want, a dice roll is made then displayed next to the player portrait in the group window. Who ever gets the highest will both turn the story in that direction and also be the one who actually plays out that scenario. Yes if your grouped other people CAN affect the quest your on. This obviously as i stated before does not occur in the personal story. Others can group with you but the story is about you, so only you will change how things happen. This can occur from anywhere from solo quests, group quests, world arcs and flash points, doubtful by their nature that PvP would have such a thing but i'm not ruling anything out. Operations (raids) have already been ruled out that there would be multi-group dialog.
You also get rewards for doing these group dialogs in the form of social points which you can use to get various loot from social vendors (no idea whats on them)
Also each person brings their own (due to the players having voices) own little thing to the table as per their character. Not to mention someone elses companions can interact in your story if they are brought along.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Thanks, this is really helpful. Those other links were very informative, but a bit too informative lol
. Deluge of info. Still, I did read a lot of it so thanks to Maverick and company for posting those links.
So it sounds like it's basically like rolling for loot, except your roll for decisions. Doesn't sound too bad. Still, I do worry a bit that your group may sound schizophrenic if you have two people making very different decisions all the time
. I wonder if there are any situations where your character can just "chime in" kind of like companions do in other BW games. That would be cool and make it feel like you're actually in a party.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
just to add a few things to whilan's post:
social points are currently awarded to the player that speaks during the group dialogue. And from what i understand, you don't trade social points to the vendor, its more like another form of leveling. more points you get, more teirs you unlock. so when you go to buy something from the vendor it will say something like "Teir II" in the tool tip as a prereq for wearing it.
http://darthhater.com/2011/04/28/fan-site-summit-general-things-learned/
Social points are added whenever you win a roll in a group dialogue scene or achieve a specific objective while grouped. These appear in a small blue box on the bottom of the screen. Social points accumulate to give you new social levels or tiers.
it was also talked about what was seen at a social vendor in this episode of The Republic. sorry i dont have a time code for it off hand. edit - around 24:30
For really, really big decisions, its made by vote and majority wins. however rest of the time it takes the rolls of same choices and adds them together and which ever choice has the highest total, wins and highest roll within that group speaks. so if 3 people picked the same thing but all had rolled crappy rolls that only add up to say 50 and the the 1 person that picked differently rolls say 96, he wins and gets to speak. but if the total of the 3 was say 75 and the one other guy got 70, then whoever had the highest roll of the 3 in the winning group gets to speak. from what we have heard you can roll anywhere between 1-100 with chances at critical sucess which will boost it over 100 and crit failures which is 0. its been hinted at that items in social vendors could have a stat that boosts your chances on dialogue rolls.
Not really about group dialog but i found this pertaining to flashpoints which are group in nature
Flashpoints are not always linear. Dialogue choices and performing bonus objectives open up other aspects of the instance such as more bosses and more ways to achive Victory - Bioware
So depending on who wins will also change how the dungeon is set up and sometime even bosses that you fight. Not sure but it may even be possible to fight a different boss because of a decision.
As for the extremes, yeah it may seem that way but it depends on who wins the rolls, I don't see you having 30 lines of dialog in each dialog option, maybe 3 or max 4 at a time per group dialog. NPC says something, group member 3 says something, NPC says something, group member 1 says something.
Sometimes like how this one plays out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0nqdbiy3bE- from start to 3:30 after that the dev explains what these dialog options have until about 4:05, after that it's just flashpoint combat.
It will be one character...then another.
This is also the same flashpoint but if you choose the other option.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jh8cShTjBEI
That one is just to show the difference in both the dialog and how the flashpoint plays out
and of course the Taral V flashpoint
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6L-N4zqAeM
As for the original thread comment, meh not everyone will like the game he actually gave a decent review on the game. As for the OP itself, i'm not sure what the point of the post other then to cause people to response in an agressive/defensive manner. Beyond that what is there to achieve?
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Indeed its true. We are all doomed, my lord. V_V
p.s. The powers that be have granted me a new title. I hope it is to your liking.
My brand new bloggity blog.
LOL thats awesome
edit: oh can't believe we didn't mention the holocom feature for group dialogue. say your body has to go turn in a quest but you want to go to some vendors and don't feel like walking all the way back. well you can still participate in the dialogue with him. when he goes to talk to the npc, you will get an option to join via holocom and if you accept, you will appear as a hologram next to your buddy and be able to still get dialogue options. you just won't get any option that would invovle anything physical like punching someone or shooting them. there are some limits such as you need to be a minimum distance from the quest npc to be given the option, you can't be in combat, and you must be on the same planet.
Reading the review, it sounded like a pretty reasonable, even handed review to me....
The reviewer praised the quality of the story and presentation (things that Bioware itself have stressed when talking up the games strong points) ..... but didn't find actual gameplay itself to be anything particularly exciting or compeling.
Since gameplay was a more important factor then presentation/story, he didn't find TOR particularly appealing to him.
I suspect those sentiments would oddly echo my own, if I ever end up trying TOR (assuming they offer a free trial at some point in the future). At least everything I've read about it so far would indicate that.
I like story in my games, but only if I have a very active part in creating it myself....which is not really the hallmark of Bioware games specificaly and to a lessor degree themeparks in general.
If I want to experience a quality scripted story that I have little to no part in creating and/or good cinematics & presentation, then there are lots of movies that can fit that bill. YMMV.
Whatever the OP's motivation was or wasn't.......the actual reviewer seemed pretty fair in the manner he wrote the article.
^AgreedEveryone has covered most of this with links and info, but i would like to add one thing. The 8 hours of game play was on a starter planet. This looks to be like other MMOs noob areas that are teaching you about the game along with combat and skill use. It has been said that these starter planets have 60% solo play and 40% group play. So this part of the game will not integrate the two very well. But once you leave your starter area. The solo play flips to 40% and group play is 60%. Then after you head out to other planets, the solo play drops to as low as 10%.
So grouping will be required for much of the best parts of the game(for some anyway). The multi-hour long group story quest chains are on every planet after the starter and home worlds. Could be on home worlds as well so i am not sure on that. But having to be in a group to even follow the world story seems like a way to integrate the solo class story and world group to story. So the article trying to say there will be little to no integration from 8 hours on a starter planet is laughable at best.
How many people long for that "past, simpler, and better world," I wonder, without ever recognizing the truth that perhaps it was they who were simpler and better, and not the world about them?
R.A.Salvatore
LOL!! That is freakin AWESOME!!!
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I don't think he even like MMOS. GW2 failed to impress him and so did SWTOR. Maybe Archage will make him happy, who knows.
... and in a horrible twist on fate, SW:ToR, GW2 and TSW all turn out to be truly horrible broken games, and MMO players end up flocking en masse to Arche Age, signalling a shift in the gameplaying market that ends up with the Western game market a barren wasteland full of titles nobody plays, while everybody discusses how AWESOME the latest Korean game is, and how they're glad it's not an 'American Grinder'.
Why don't we line up the positive and negative reviews and see which side has more? In response to this one bad review....
Good Review
Your turn. Let's see how long you can keep up.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I have no idea why everyone wants to try to argue over GW2 and SWTOR. I hope they are both great and I highly doubt either of them will fail. They both appeal to different groups of people....or in some cases the same but for different reasons. I am happy because my wife and I will probably play both and we will be able to do it because only one has a subscription plan.
To the people who think that SWTOR will fail...... I think of it kind of like WOW was for Blizzard.... it comes with its own fanbase. Bioware has millions of people who religiously play and follow their games for the stories alone. One just has to look at the Mass Effect series to see that. I think Bioware will do what Blizzard did for lots of people.... it will introduce a whole new group of people to MMO's........ and that is even before you get to the Star Wars fans who are pretty rabid and nuts in their own right. There is no chance that this game will fail as long as it is playable on low and mid range systems.
Wow the TOR bashing in this community is getting rediculous. It amazes me how many people think they know everything about a game that doesn't even have a launch date yet.
Exactly. Haters are going to hate and it's cool to hate on TOR because it's an EA/Bioware game. {mod edit}
Power to the Sheeple
Oh please. What's the saying? "Opinions are like aXXXXXXs, everyone has one".
To give an example:
Did you see the lord of the rings movies? you might have. You might even have liked them. Many people do. Heck, even people who don't like them recognize that they are a cinematic achievement.
but my brother hates them. He thinks they are bad movies, bad cinema, bad acting, and essentially video games turned into movies.
he can't go on enough about how much he hates them. To top it off, he cites the clerks II "star wars vs Lord of the rings" bit all the time.
I'm sure other people must hate them as well. so if I was to listen to my brother and others like him who think that Lord of the Rings is the worst cinemtaic crap to come out in the past few years should I just nod my head and say "yup, bad reviews keep coming in".
Or do I see the movies for myself (which I did and I do in fact own the extended versions) and evaluate them on what I think a good Lord of the Rings movie should have, evaluate them to my taste and my expectations?
I think the latter.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo