Flame the OP all you want (and I must admit the shortness of the note has a bit of trolling..) but I am sure that will be the final verdict of reviews after launch. Most will say, it's a decend game, but not really stunning or "alive". I would be glad to be wrong, but I don't think I will.
Let's make a bet of it, I say that most will say that it's a great game that captures a Star Wars feel even if it won't be revolutionarily innovative. I do this based upon the 15 previews and reports that are saying things like this already for every preview/report that is moderate about SWTOR.
I bookmarked your post, we'll revisit it when the reviews will start rolling in
Previews were very positive in the begining when we saw very little, it was basically universally praised. As time goes by even the ones that were very excited and positive are changing their tune, even you can see that, no?
I doubt reviews are going to influence the box sales in the begining, but you might be in for a rude awakening.
Me, I just want my beta invite.
This has been my problem all along, it really does not matter what we say until the game goes live or you get to see it with your own eyes there will always be Neg and Pos stuff ranted all the time.{mod edit} I also feel the main problen is that folk like your self without trying to sound like a troll just want to get in beta to see the game...this is the main reason i don't want people like you in beta...This game has so many people who want this to be the next BIG thing, sadly I feel it will be like Rift In Space....All Fluff and no substance.
But I hope I'm wrong because there is not one game out there atm worth my monthly money!
In fact, I'd rather say it's the reverse of what you're saying: when people knew little or tried earlier versions, they were negative or sceptical, but when they played more of the game in a later version, they changed from being sceptical or indifferent to enthusiastic.
In fact, I'd rather say it's the reverse of what you're saying: when people knew little or tried earlier versions, they were negative or sceptical, but when they played more of the game in a later version, they changed from being sceptical or indifferent to enthusiastic.
this is not true and you know it.
Ummm it actually is true and several of us have already posted several examples of this from pax west, the hands on impressions in April, etc, but frankly it's worthless to repost what has already been posted when someone doesn't want to see. There is an old saying, there are none so blind as those who will not see. I think it applies here.....over and over again. I think going forward since it seems to be allowed in these forums to post every two word negative and start a new thread I'll start opening up individual threads for every positive impression even though they are lumped together on the official forums. That way everyone will realize that it's a lot easier to jump on the negative bandwagon then to appreciate the better organized positive feedback.
In fact, I'd rather say it's the reverse of what you're saying: when people knew little or tried earlier versions, they were negative or sceptical, but when they played more of the game in a later version, they changed from being sceptical or indifferent to enthusiastic.
this is not true and you know it.
It seems we're just looking at different places. To be honest, I'm really not looking that hard, I just see a shift in the general blogosphere from excitment to somewhat meh.
In fact, I'd rather say it's the reverse of what you're saying: when people knew little or tried earlier versions, they were negative or sceptical, but when they played more of the game in a later version, they changed from being sceptical or indifferent to enthusiastic.
this is not true and you know it.
It seems we're just looking at different places. To be honest, I'm really not looking that hard, I just see a shift in the general blogosphere from excitment to somewhat meh.
I'm looking in a similar place to you, I think the term generally positive is quite broad. The game certainly will be delivered with a depth of polish and a host of content to rival and in some aspects exceed the other games in the market. The big negative that is cropping up again and again and again, is the simple fact that it is not innovative in gameplay. The combat is taking the method if it aint broke don't fix it. Alongside this the class mechanics and abilities are also going down this road.
in terms of a release and reception, there is without a doubt this will be an immensley popular game, it is however unlikely to be a game regarded at the highest asteem with serious critics. Much like the Nintendo Wii, its amazing because my gran can get a strike at wii bowling, but there really has been few titles that have done anything remotely interesting with the Wii remote, except for lieing to fat people that it will make them skinny.
In fact, I'd rather say it's the reverse of what you're saying: when people knew little or tried earlier versions, they were negative or sceptical, but when they played more of the game in a later version, they changed from being sceptical or indifferent to enthusiastic.
this is not true and you know it.
Of course it is, in contrast to you I do my factchecking and usually have backing to what I say. Did you read how I debunked your earlier statement that the entire Massively team found SWTOR 'meh'?
Anyway, I'm not going to bother with providing proof to you, you're set in your ways, no matter what people say or come up with you'll be as negative about SWTOR as you can be.
Originally posted by SonofSeth
It seems we're just looking at different places. To be honest, I'm really not looking that hard, I just see a shift in the general blogosphere from excitment to somewhat meh.
This is a highly subjective thing. I look at the general blogosphere and see that a number of things that people were negative about because SWTOR hadn't revealed anything about it turn to positive and satisfied, knowing that it's ingameand enjoyable.
As for themepark haters, MMO vets who've burnt out on current MMORPG's and desperately crave for something entirely different or innovative, hardcore SWG fans who wanted an SWG2, all those were dissatisfied with SWTOR already for a long time, that won't change.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Whenever I see images and reports on SW TOR I see Tabula Rasa and Star Trek mmo's right in front of me. Perhaps it is the overall SF theme embedded in a rather clunky standard MMO combat interface ... But I don't like the impression. SF in shooters yes, but they never catched on in a MMO's. Add in the Bioware treatment of voice overs and video footage and I am not convinced yet ... Perhaps this is the overall feeling recently. Decent for a mmorpg yes, but very convincing as a full blown space opera ? Questionable. It could be the dud of the century in paid subs.
Ummm yes..... Granted Mass Effect wasn't an MMO, but as an RPG it is definitely considered "the" space opera" with it's cutscenes and voice overs. It is the opinion of many to be one of the best game series ever. I think that many ME fans will play SWTOR simply for that reason.
I dont even have to look back at the website to remember who this guy was. He was the one who wrote the preview of the game before right? The one who just hates MMORPGs in general? =P His opinion did not seem very valid at the time, and it still does not feel valid now. The guy just wants MMOs to be sandbox games like before and refuses to believe that themepark games are the most successful ones, so his opinion of SWTOR is influenced by that.
I really don't get all the direct comparisons of GW2 to SWTOR. I mean, they are different games taking different approaches. One is free, one has a monthly fee. One is focusing on dynamic content while the other is focused on story based choices and static content. One is focusing on action oriented gameplay, one is going the more traditional route. One is focused on gear and progression, one is not.
Personally I am going to buy both games. When one has no monthly fee it kind of eliminates having to make a choice. They both look great and have strong elements to them that each is focused on. Everyone I have talked to who is planning to play SWTOR is going to pickup GW2 as well. I am sure that mentality will stay true for alot of the people picking up the game when it comes out, so the basis of comparison when it comes to financial success will be pretty much impossible. I don't see the point of even debating it. If someone quits SWTOR for GW2 chances are they would have quit anyways. SWTOR's success will be more dependant upon subscriptions whereas GW2 will have success just due to the hype alone. Neither game will affect the other's outcome. The only determining factor is the developers themselves.
I dont even have to look back at the website to remember who this guy was. He was the one who wrote the preview of the game before right? The one who just hates MMORPGs in general? =P His opinion did not seem very valid at the time, and it still does not feel valid now. The guy just wants MMOs to be sandbox games like before and refuses to believe that themepark games are the most successful ones, so his opinion of SWTOR is influenced by that.
I really don't get all the direct comparisons of GW2 to SWTOR. I mean, they are different games taking different approaches. One is free, one has a monthly fee. One is focusing on dynamic content while the other is focused on story based choices and static content. One is focusing on action oriented gameplay, one is going the more traditional route. One is focused on gear and progression, one is not.
Personally I am going to buy both games. When one has no monthly fee it kind of eliminates having to make a choice. They both look great and have strong elements to them that each is focused on. Everyone I have talked to who is planning to play SWTOR is going to pickup GW2 as well. I am sure that mentality will stay true for alot of the people picking up the game when it comes out, so the basis of comparison when it comes to financial success will be pretty much impossible. I don't see the point of even debating it. If someone quits SWTOR for GW2 chances are they would have quit anyways. SWTOR's success will be more dependant upon subscriptions whereas GW2 will have success just due to the hype alone. Neither game will affect the other's outcome. The only determining factor is the developers themselves.
Yeah after learning more about SWTOR I actually agree with you.
I see SWTOR as taking the approach of trying to perfect the quest-based formula to its highest degree. it's not so much radical innovation as it is incremental innovation on a formula that is proven to work and be successful.
Whereas I see GW2 as taking the approach of trying to radically change the quest-based formula to something more collaborative. Much more of a radical innovation, with potentially huge payoffs, but maybe a little more risky.
Personally, I side with GW2 just because I'm a bit worn out on the quest based formula. But I'm still planning to play SWTOR.
It won't suck in anyone who loves sandbox PvP, because NOTHING IS PERSISTENT. Once they realize it just resets at the end of the week and everything was for nothing, they'll go somewhere where persistent territory will always be there. (which SWTOR has). Sandbox PvP doesn't = 3 faction PvP.
youre being too idealistic. there isnt a single MMO out right now with SUCCESSFUL persistent PVP. WvWvW is a simulation of it, with tons of objectives. to counter population imbalances and gosu wtfpwn guilds that always win, it simply resets. common sense. just like LoL: it's a simulation of an MMO, played in the span of 1 hour. and millions of people play it every day. the only game with a persistent pvp mechanic is EVE, and how many people play it? it's garbage. this is what happens without rules and objectives.
perstistency means nothing. it's an intangible concept inside of a roleplayer's mind. ultimately, everything comes down to a fun and engaging combat mechanics, and something you can get into with ease.
there is ZERO information on anything even resembling sandbox in TOR. and by persistent territory, you must mean static and never-changing? because their version of open world pvp is the same as WoW's: contested PVE zones in which you can pvp on the go. and we all know how that worked out.
There are contested areas in SWTOR that allow one faction or another to control it for rewards, what those will be we have yet to see. Its not just PvP on PvP servers either.
What you are describing is an arena based game which GWs1 had. Thats great if thats what you like, (other games call them battlegrounds or warzones or what have you) but with a game like GW2, I don't see it attracting and keeping people who like SANDBOX style gameplay. What you are describing isn't a sandbox in the slightest. Anyone who would find GW2s system attractive would likely find Global Agendas AvA attractive, or just as you said, LoL or BLC or any number of games like that. Those aren't sandbox fans particularly.
TOR isn't a sandbox game, but neither is GW2, and I'd dare say TOR is much closer on the spectrum to sandbox than GW2 is.
I dont even have to look back at the website to remember who this guy was. He was the one who wrote the preview of the game before right? The one who just hates MMORPGs in general? =P His opinion did not seem very valid at the time, and it still does not feel valid now. The guy just wants MMOs to be sandbox games like before and refuses to believe that themepark games are the most successful ones, so his opinion of SWTOR is influenced by that.
I really don't get all the direct comparisons of GW2 to SWTOR. I mean, they are different games taking different approaches. One is free, one has a monthly fee. One is focusing on dynamic content while the other is focused on story based choices and static content. One is focusing on action oriented gameplay, one is going the more traditional route. One is focused on gear and progression, one is not.
Personally I am going to buy both games. When one has no monthly fee it kind of eliminates having to make a choice. They both look great and have strong elements to them that each is focused on. Everyone I have talked to who is planning to play SWTOR is going to pickup GW2 as well. I am sure that mentality will stay true for alot of the people picking up the game when it comes out, so the basis of comparison when it comes to financial success will be pretty much impossible. I don't see the point of even debating it. If someone quits SWTOR for GW2 chances are they would have quit anyways. SWTOR's success will be more dependant upon subscriptions whereas GW2 will have success just due to the hype alone. Neither game will affect the other's outcome. The only determining factor is the developers themselves.
Yeah after learning more about SWTOR I actually agree with you.
I see SWTOR as taking the approach of trying to perfect the quest-based formula to its highest degree. it's not so much radical innovation as it is incremental innovation on a formula that is proven to work and be successful.
Whereas I see GW2 as taking the approach of trying to radically change the quest-based formula to something more collaborative. Much more of a radical innovation, with potentially huge payoffs, but maybe a little more risky.
Personally, I side with GW2 just because I'm a bit worn out on the quest based formula. But I'm still planning to play SWTOR.
Thanks for the constructive feedback. :-) I like responses like this because even though I am more of a fan of TOR, this is an obviously thoughtful response with no hint of ulterior motives. One could just as easily have ended it by saying I personally side with SWTOR because I am tired of the fantasy realm and I want quests that actually make me feel part of a great story that I pay attention to.
Personally, I hope both games do great. Each has something about them that appeals to me in different ways. I want GW2 because it seems like the kind of game you just jump in with others for that arcade like feel without having to search endlessly for a group..and it does seem innovative in multiple ways...like that initial rush I got when I did my first public quest in War when it had a population...and I want SWTOR because I think it will be a deeper RPG game and I am not tired of games improving on what has already been done.
Thanks for the constructive feedback. :-) I like responses like this because even though I am more of a fan of TOR, this is an obviously thoughtful response with no hint of ulterior motives. One could just as easily have ended it by saying I personally side with SWTOR because I am tired of the fantasy realm and I want quests that actually make me feel part of a great story that I pay attention to.
Personally, I hope both games do great. Each has something about them that appeals to me in different ways. I want GW2 because it seems like the kind of game you just jump in with others for that arcade like feel without having to search endlessly for a group..and it does seem innovative in multiple ways...like that initial rush I got when I did my first public quest in War when it had a population...and I want SWTOR because I think it will be a deeper RPG game and I am not tired of games improving on what has already been done.
Probably it's just me, but I detect a "hint of utlterior motives" in how you describe GW2 as having "that arcade like feel". I found that ironic
Thanks for the constructive feedback. :-) I like responses like this because even though I am more of a fan of TOR, this is an obviously thoughtful response with no hint of ulterior motives. One could just as easily have ended it by saying I personally side with SWTOR because I am tired of the fantasy realm and I want quests that actually make me feel part of a great story that I pay attention to.
Personally, I hope both games do great. Each has something about them that appeals to me in different ways. I want GW2 because it seems like the kind of game you just jump in with others for that arcade like feel without having to search endlessly for a group..and it does seem innovative in multiple ways...like that initial rush I got when I did my first public quest in War when it had a population...and I want SWTOR because I think it will be a deeper RPG game and I am not tired of games improving on what has already been done.
That really depends on what type of player you are. GW2s open dynamic events is like that, yes. But if you want to do dungeons you will still have to spend time getting a good group, some of those dungeons will be really hard so even if you don't need a holy triad group it will still take time to get a good group. Same thing with PvP, the mists is just to jump into but Guild Vs guild and arenas will take a really good group.
Both games have their strenghts and weaknesses. I will crown the winner for me once they release, even though I am partial to GW2 because I like Tyria.
Thanks for the constructive feedback. :-) I like responses like this because even though I am more of a fan of TOR, this is an obviously thoughtful response with no hint of ulterior motives. One could just as easily have ended it by saying I personally side with SWTOR because I am tired of the fantasy realm and I want quests that actually make me feel part of a great story that I pay attention to.
Personally, I hope both games do great. Each has something about them that appeals to me in different ways. I want GW2 because it seems like the kind of game you just jump in with others for that arcade like feel without having to search endlessly for a group..and it does seem innovative in multiple ways...like that initial rush I got when I did my first public quest in War when it had a population...and I want SWTOR because I think it will be a deeper RPG game and I am not tired of games improving on what has already been done.
Probably it's just me, but I detect a "hint of utlterior motives" in how you describe GW2 as having "that arcade like feel". I found that ironic
Its so funny to me how sensitive GW2 fans are even when complimenting a game. I didn't mean arcade like in a negative way. Before my first MMO in 2003 or so, my favorite games were things like Gauntlet, Diablo, Venture for ColecoVision (god Im old lol) etc that had an arcade feel to them. Those games were huge at the time. To me, GW2 seems to want to satisfy that craving for me in an MMO world that I haven't felt in a long time other than that initial rush with War due to the innovation (for the first month or two lol). I mean it in a good way, a lot of instant action. Can you put away your pitch fork now? lol
Thanks for the constructive feedback. :-) I like responses like this because even though I am more of a fan of TOR, this is an obviously thoughtful response with no hint of ulterior motives. One could just as easily have ended it by saying I personally side with SWTOR because I am tired of the fantasy realm and I want quests that actually make me feel part of a great story that I pay attention to.
Personally, I hope both games do great. Each has something about them that appeals to me in different ways. I want GW2 because it seems like the kind of game you just jump in with others for that arcade like feel without having to search endlessly for a group..and it does seem innovative in multiple ways...like that initial rush I got when I did my first public quest in War when it had a population...and I want SWTOR because I think it will be a deeper RPG game and I am not tired of games improving on what has already been done.
That really depends on what type of player you are. GW2s open dynamic events is like that, yes. But if you want to do dungeons you will still have to spend time getting a good group, some of those dungeons will be really hard so even if you don't need a holy triad group it will still take time to get a good group. Same thing with PvP, the mists is just to jump into but Guild Vs guild and arenas will take a really good group.
Both games have their strenghts and weaknesses. I will crown the winner for me once they release, even though I am partial to GW2 because I like Tyria.
Can you provide a link to the dungeons? Most of what I have seen is the open world chained events and underwater action. That is good news, but Id like to see more of that. Anyway, I think Im posting in the wrong forums now lol sorry.
Thanks for the constructive feedback. :-) I like responses like this because even though I am more of a fan of TOR, this is an obviously thoughtful response with no hint of ulterior motives. One could just as easily have ended it by saying I personally side with SWTOR because I am tired of the fantasy realm and I want quests that actually make me feel part of a great story that I pay attention to.
Personally, I hope both games do great. Each has something about them that appeals to me in different ways. I want GW2 because it seems like the kind of game you just jump in with others for that arcade like feel without having to search endlessly for a group..and it does seem innovative in multiple ways...like that initial rush I got when I did my first public quest in War when it had a population...and I want SWTOR because I think it will be a deeper RPG game and I am not tired of games improving on what has already been done.
That really depends on what type of player you are. GW2s open dynamic events is like that, yes. But if you want to do dungeons you will still have to spend time getting a good group, some of those dungeons will be really hard so even if you don't need a holy triad group it will still take time to get a good group. Same thing with PvP, the mists is just to jump into but Guild Vs guild and arenas will take a really good group.
Both games have their strenghts and weaknesses. I will crown the winner for me once they release, even though I am partial to GW2 because I like Tyria.
Can you provide a link to the dungeons? Most of what I have seen is the open world chained events and underwater action. That is good news, but Id like to see more of that. Anyway, I think Im posting in the wrong forums now lol sorry.
There was a video released at the same time as the embedded intro in that article, but it's pretty underwhelming. It's not gameplay, it's like a flyover of people playing badly. No dodging, no casting on the move, no cross profession combos.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
OP. I 'review' games, movies or books, and decide for myself. The material being released by SWTOR are the 'previews of coming attractions' that give me a little insight into the game. Just like the splog on the inside of a book jacket give me an idea what the book is about. Sorry you didn't care about SWTOR but that has little to do with the game itself as you wrote only about general impressions on general areas and all of it subjective. I too am subjective and will cast my final vote with my wallet.
Posts with loads of 'tired of the same ole thing' are numerous. I fear such critics would be (are) tired of the same ole E=Mc2 from Einstein. Nothing will please but something 'new' or 'innovative' according to their own interpretation of course. How about a post on what you think would be 'new and innovative', then try and sell it to investors. I for one would finally like to hear sone actual new and innovative ideas, especially from complaining posters.
There are many posters here on the forums, as you cruise thru them, who have some interesting and fascinating ideas about the contents, even the genre, of games being reviewed. You have given your opinion, rightfully so. Mine is different. I will buy it and see if I am right. I am curious, will you buy it to review it again or move on to something else? I am betting that Bioware is counting on 'my' review more than yours since I speak with my wallet.
You sound intelligent and articulate, I just think you are wrong on SWTOR.
Posts with loads of 'tired of the same ole thing' are numerous. I fear such critics would be (are) tired of the same ole E=Mc2 from Einstein. Nothing will please but something 'new' or 'innovative' according to their own interpretation of course. How about a post on what you think would be 'new and innovative', then try and sell it to investors. I for one would finally like to hear sone actual new and innovative ideas, especially from complaining posters.
There are many posters here on the forums, as you cruise thru them, who have some interesting and fascinating ideas about the contents, even the genre, of games being reviewed. You have given your opinion, rightfully so. Mine is different. I will buy it and see if I am right. I am curious, will you buy it to review it again or move on to something else? I am betting that Bioware is counting on 'my' review more than yours since I speak with my wallet.
I find your analysis of people who are 'tired of the same ol' thing' somewhat blind to what I think is the core of the issue.
I think, and this is my analysis that I believe fits the situation of people I know and may not apply to everyone, that people 'tired of the same ol' thing' either want a better reason to play yet another game than its in a shiny new IP that I like, or never really liked the parts of games that they feel are tired and thus want to see something new and different.
The core of it is that if you aren't having fun playing the same kind of game that WoW and its clones (yes...a narrow minded way of simplifying the description what people are calling 'tired of the same ol' thing') are, of course you want something new, better, and innovative.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Lol, the majority of press has been positive. Those who have actually played it for long periods at a time,
He played it for 8 hours.
8 hours? wow, I wouldnt listen to anyone who played an mmo for 8 hours.
Some people will prefere GW2 over SWTOR, and some will prefere SWTOR over GW2, it would be damn crazy if one of the games would shut down the other, and it's not going to happen.
Heck, just because I'd take an espresso over a cappucino any day, it doesnt mean that everyone else would or should aswell, a review is the reviewers personal opinion, and not a fact.
People need to stop threating reviews as a fact and an opinion that everyone will agree on, who cares if some random dude didnt like it, just because he's able to publish his opinion doesnt make it so.
Lol, the majority of press has been positive. Those who have actually played it for long periods at a time,
He played it for 8 hours.
8 hours? wow, I wouldnt listen to anyone who played an mmo for 8 hours.
Some people will prefere GW2 over SWTOR, and some will prefere SWTOR over GW2, it would be damn crazy if one of the games would shut down the other, and it's not going to happen.
Heck, just because I'd take an espresso over a cappucino any day, it doesnt mean that everyone else would or should aswell, a review is the reviewers personal opinion, and not a fact.
People need to stop threating reviews as a fact and an opinion that everyone will agree on, who cares if some random dude didnt like it, just because he's able to publish his opinion doesnt make it so.
Welll it makes him less random than we are, doesn't it?
Welll it makes him less random than we are, doesn't it?
That's true, I agree that 8 hours is nice to form your impressions, after all it's more time than most people who played the demo at conventions had. However, it's also just 1 opinion, from 1 person. Nothing bad said about his impressions, after all, it's his opinion and how he experienced things.
Other people can have different opinions though, each person their own taste and viewpoint, here's some other impressions from people who also played SWTOR for 7 to 20 hours (and sometimes more).
All in all Black Talon is probably tied for my favorite experience of the entire weekend. These flashpoints are so well designed and so much fun I cannot wait to see what else BioWare comes out with. One of the primary reasons they excite me so much is that these are great early indications of what the endgame will look like, assuming of course it is tied to flashpoint of some kind which I expect it to be (Musco, Torocast)
After playing Taral V at PAX East, and now The Black Talon at the Fan Site Summit, I feel confident in saying that fans of this kind of group content have all the reasons in the world to believe that BioWare is going to deliver in this area (Lethality, Ask A Jedi)
The story is so woven into everything, it hard to see where the combat ends and the story starts. It's better than most I've played, and on par with the best. But for those looking for the next big leap forward in combat mechanics, you'll need to wait a little longer, because TOR's combat aint it (SWTOR-UK)
Overall I honestly think Bioware wins with general game play. This game is so fun and has so many things to explore and investigate I can only imagine how fun it will be for me once the other game features are released. I can not understand how anyone could not like this game actually but I suppose there will be a few. I know for me though, this play experience has answered a few questions that have been nagging at me (Swtorcrafter)
At the most recent event demonstrating the game I spent two days playing as an Imperial Agent. This is a Sith character, focusing on stealth, subterfuge and sabotage. And perhaps what most surprised me was that this isn’t just what defines my skill tree. It changed how I play the game (Rockpapershotgun)
I think the crucial thing I took away from two days with the game was that I wanted to carry on. It frustrates me that I can’t keep playing, and I’m pretty certain that’s the key to both a good story-led RPG and monthly subbed MMO (Rockpapershotgun)
I'm still not sure how I feel about the Imperial Agent's overall play style, but I really liked the story so far. Having a secret identity made me feel like a ******, and in classic Bioware fashion, there were tough decisions to be made (Dana, IGN)
While we couldn't fully attach to our characters over the two days we were allotted with the game, we were given free reign to get as far as possible in the PvE campaign, talk to any NPCs, take on any quests, and run any flashpoints we could find. And the game is looking great—expansive, immersive, even a little moving in parts. [Bioware] has accomplished the meshing of online play and RPG better than any of their predecessors (Arstechnica)
While the Black Talon [flashpoint] wasn’t ultimately a challenge for our particular group, it definitely put to test everything we’d learned about our classes on Hutta and especially how our classes played together as a group. In the end, there are certainly familiar feelings of running through a group instance together in Flashpoints, but like everything else in Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare’s signature storytelling comes through, and this really ends up setting the experience apart from your typical dungeon romp. BioWare’s strengths come through here with the way the story is told visually. Enemies are bursting through walls and boarding your ship, sparks fly everywhere, and huge space battles are erupting outside as you’re making a mad dash through a hangar to board a transport. While you’ll mostly feel like you’re running through your typical MMO dungeon, there is a lot going on screen to draw you into what’s going on whether it’s simply stuff going on in the background or slick cutscenes foreshadowing an epic boss fight (Bitton, mmorpg.com)
While flashpoints are certainly exciting, the quantity and level of difficulty involving the group content - even on the first planet players will experience in the game - is very encouraging. It's a bit of a lost aspect of the MMO genre that has fallen by the wayside as studios focus on more casual aspects of leveling progression, and it's one that will be a welcomed return by many (Curse)
Out of all the ways Star Wars: The Old Republic is excelling, the one prevalant strength it has for me is how it has this pervasive momentum, the same kind that we see in BioWare's best works, where the more you play, the more you want to keep playing. Nem'ro's Palace alone has several conversational NPCs, many of whom will open up possibilities to new quests. There's compulsion to just wander the world, kill things, and just soak in the Star Wars universe, but I'm also conflicted in wanting to forward the plot, side missions or otherwise. It's a nice problem to have (G4TV)
Our massive hands-on showed that this is not the type of MMO many are accustomed to and for all the right reasons. The concentration given to that of the role-playing game makes this far more accessible to those who don’t want the obligation of jumping into a party every five minutes but are, instead, intrigued by the Star Wars fuelled story. Those multiplayer elements exist, and rightfully so, but when played alone, this is a mightier beast compared to what the rest of the genre offers. In short, it could be the Star Wars game the world has always been waiting for (Nowgamer)
Indulge me for a moment here. I am of a small group of people that has spent almost forty hours with The Old Republic, Bioware’s MMO based upon the Star Wars universe. Every hour with the game has been entirely addictive and entertaining. I’ve quested as a Sith Warrior, talked down to NPCs as a Jedi Consular, and walked the fine line between good and bad as a bounty hunter. With this much time invested in the game, you’d think I’d be tired of it. But I’m not. I don’t care about Star Wars that much. MMOs have always been an exercise in frustration for me. Hell, I’ve yet to beat a BioWare game. But BioWare Austin has done a fantastic job maintaining my interest in what may be one of the best games of the year (Perlee, Gamezone)
And about combat and overall gameplay:
The first thing you get when you walk in is the sense of how much has changed. If you remember the Black Talon Flashpoint from past videos, you may be surprised by how much things improved since the last time it was seen. Everything in it just looks vastly better (Sado, Darthhater)
One of the great things about this is that you also still earn experience points when you die, as long as you do not hit the "Return to Med Center" button. While it may seem counter intuitive to lay on the ground dead while your party finishes the fight, all classes can use an out of combat resurrection ability by right clicking on a fallen comrade. This means the Flashpoint will progress more smoothly if incapacitated players wait around for a friend to quickly pick them back up between battles, and the continued experience gain may be the carrot to keep you from self-rezzing at the entrance (Sado, Darthhater)
Bonus quests are available throughout the Flashpoint, and these enable a party to gain access to new bosses who drop different loot. In our case, the bonus objective had us disabling control panels to allow access to a boss droid and, as expected, extra loot dropped as a result. Another bonus quest had us pick up a few objects for something later. This is the earliest Flashpoint in the game for the Sith faction and it seems to focus on teaching boss encounters basic mechanics; we mainly encountered tank and spank boss fights (Sado, Darthhater)
The entire Flashpoint was fluid and enjoyable. The conversations ended up being extremely fun, with people smack talking on the high rolls and lamenting on the low ones. The combat was fast and exciting, and the ability for seasoned players to power through it without a healer was a welcome addition to an early level experience. All in all, it was a pretty good time (Dover, Darthhater)
[Black Talon flashpoint] we technically had no tanks or healers. Although the IA can eventually heal you actually don’t get access to those skills until after selecting the Operative AC at level 10. On the flipside the BH doesn’t have any high threat or healing skills either until after their AC selection. This made each fight a DPS race which made things a bit interesting on boss fights. What I thought was awesome about these boss fights is that they actually had mechanics! Think back to the deadmines in WoW or any first-time dungeon in any other MMO, those fights were just tank-n-spanks but not here. At least half of these bosses had some form of mechanic to mix it up on you (Musco, Torocast)
What I really, really loved about SWTOR and character advancement is their commendation system. Frankly put, commendations are tokens which are random drops and are tied to a zone. As an example I had both Hutta tokens and Black Talon tokens in my inventory by the end of the day. What they are used for is as a form of currency to buy items off of a special goods vendor. Due to the commendations, I was able to purchase three blue quality items before leaving Hutta. Along with a world drop or two, I left the planet with five total blue items! This system really gives incentive for players to kill mobs while traveling. What is great is that even with extra commendations, you can use them to help gear up your companions (Musco, Torocast)
[Black Talon flashpoint] Our companions did what they were set to do, and we didn’t micromanage them at all. Sentinel’s companion Mako was out “healer” and from what I could tell, concentrated on healing him the most but I also noticed the occasional heal-over-time on me going off for 36 health per tick. My companion, Kaliyo, just stuck around the perimeter and pumped whoever I was attacking full of blaster bolts (Lethality, Ask A Jedi)
[Black Talon flashpoint] Here are a few other observations: Size – It’s huge! We didn’t finish the Flashpoint, but I would say we spent a good 30 minutes getting to where we were. I don’t know how far we were from the end, but it definitely felt like we were accomplishing something meaningful. Design – It’s Star Warsy! Seriously though, traipsing through the large hangars really made me feel like I was dropped in the middle of a Star Wars movie (Lethality, Ask A Jedi)
You have to remember that, SWTOR was designed for you to take on 3 or 4 mob's at the same time, and the sooner you adapt to this fact, the faster you progress, and your enjoyment of the game increases tenfold. Most everything from the early levels comes in groups of 3 or 4. The best way I found on the day, was to take my AOE, the wrist rocket, pepper each of the mobs in turn (SWTOR-UK)
I would like to say the combat is ground breaking, but it is no such thing. It does however feel right for the IP, and you do get a sense, that great things are just around the corner. It's a very hard thing to try to predict, how combat and a class feels in these most tender of moments at lower levels. What I can say, is this, as an mmo, will have you in combat more that anything else you have played to-date. It takes you to a sweet spot, that falls between mmo, and shooter. This is were the cut scenes are a welcome brake in you quest lines. You tend to have a more forward thinking approach, to the way you enter a combat situation. You are forever checking what is around you, and where a group of mobs that are close by, to see if they could come into combat rage with you. Picking you moment to strike, or hold off till the added danger has moved on, is an important step to staying alive (SWTOR-UK)
I really think the balance of how hard the mobs are in the starting area is ok, some have said they were too hard but I found them to be average power wise (Swtorcrafter)
What we were more curious about, or worried about, was how the RPG emphasis would get along with the MMO part of the game. The most innovative concept is the holo-communication between players. When a player begins a conversation with a quest-giver, a window automatically opens on the screens of other players in the group, asking them to join the conversation. If they stop what they're doing and accept, a hologram version of them appears at the side of their group member, and they're able to watch and participate in the dialogue that follows. Seeing the dialogue is not strictly necessary to getting the related quest, as there is still a "share" button in the quest log to loop in stragglers. But it's a great solution to preserving the RPG experience when dealing with a group of players without forcing the entire group to, for instance, move around a city together. Instead, the group can scatter to complete class quests or visit trainers and vendors, and at the same time pick up quests for the group in the areas they travel. They still get to experience all of the story with a fraction of the legwork (Arstechnica)
As far as group mechanics, few classes are cut and dry, which makes it easier to run heroic quests or flashpoints with a cobbled-together group of players. I ran a level 10 flashpoint, Black Talon, with another imperial agent and two bounty hunters, and we never suffered for lack of a particular class mechanic. The bounty hunters made decent makeshift tanks as we ran around saving the Imperial ship from Republic attackers, and since all classes could heal themselves out of battle, there was little downtime (Arstechnica)
Erickson stressed that none of the multiplayer game experiences are compulsory. " You never have to play PvP, you never have to play a heroic, you never have to play a flashpoint," he said. But since you lose none of the single-player experience by grouping up, and you get access to heroics and flashpoints you would otherwise have to miss, there isn't much reason not to try it. Players that are trying to hit max level, level 50, as quickly as possible are going to want to get in on the group action (Arstechnica)
Grouping on Hutta was actually still quite fun. Sidequest dialogue can all be done in multiplayer and so you can start earning your Dark Side and Light Side points along with your friends while having to suffer the consequences of their choices if they make a decision you didn’t want to and win the conversation roll. This may sound like a negative, but it’s actually incredibly social and fun; there’s a kind of “party game” element to it (Bitton, mmorpg.com)
Grouping made things go faster for sure, but what was really interesting was the inclusion of Heroic quest content even on the starting world. We discovered a heroic quest that sent us deep within the bowels of Hutta to wipe out some unsavory characters and creatures in the sewers and found that our group cohesion was quite adequately tested. Crowd controlling enemies, target prioritization, etc., were all important for us to get through the encounter, which ultimately culminated with a fight against a robotic mini-boss who was guarding a glowing Datacron. Datacrons are scattered throughout the game world and offer unique permanent boosts to your statistics. This Datacron was actually part of a set, which when completed would offer even more significant bonuses according to BioWare’s Daniel Erickson (Bitton, mmorpg.com)
We wanted the full-bore experience of playing a massively multiplayer Star Wars game, and that also meant the grouping aspect. So we set out to do something no one else at the immersion day decided to take part in. You see, from the get-go Star Wars: The Old Republic has group content. Many of its features are even designed around group play. They want you to be social, to interact with other players nearby and form lasting relationships in the game. One such feature we were told about before we even sat in front of our stations to play the game, is the holo-com. It takes 'quest' npc interaction -- called missions in The Old Republic -- to an entirely new level. If you're not in range to go join your groupmate at the NPC, you can simply click a button and join the conversation via your holo-communicator. This in essence means that only one person ever has to actually be at an NPC to begin or turn in a mission -- everyone else can be remote and still interact in the conversation portion. another system designed to encourage the multiplayer aspect of MMO is 'Social Points,' a sort of ancillary experience bar. As you participate in conversations with a group, each person is allowed to select the dialogue response they'd like to see play out (Curse)
We'd done something none of their internal testers have ever done: we focused on group content above and beyond anything else, wherever possible. While the first group-based content doesn't come along until right around level five, it's definitely there. Foregoing our class story missions until around level nine, we instead took on the 'heroic' content on the trash planet Hutta. It's stuff that you absolutely must form a group to tackle. It was actually a challenge. Though we struggled along the way we eventually did complete the heroic quests on Hutta. The reward was fantastic: a blue quality item and a lot of experience, not only from turning in the quests, but also from doing the content itself. We managed to outpace everyone else on levels, even while being grouped up doing group-based content, which has notoriously been slower than leveling by yourself in more recent MMOs (Curse)
once a group enters a Flashpoint, the event tends to be exciting. Our Flashpoint regarded a mutinous Empire ship, and player decisions included killing or forgiving the mutinous group, finding and destroying items, searching for a traitor, and defeating a Padawan jedi. These missions are very satisfying, offer loads of experience and decent loot, and provide a great way to pad out a character when the game’s difficulty becomes intense (Perlee, Gamezone)
Like said, take 20 people, and you'll have 20 different opinions, and sometimes wildly divergent viewpoints about the same kind of experiences.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
"Here’s the thing, compared to Star Wars: The Old Republic (the last MMO I previewed), (censored) is spectacular - it feels fresh, it feels alive and it feels diverse… three adjectivesthat I’d never use to describe BioWare’s upcoming MMO, at least from what I’ve seen so far."
Bad press keeps coming in...
Source? Can you give us a link or something to look at? What game is this a review for?
Welll it makes him less random than we are, doesn't it?
That's true, I agree that 8 hours is nice to form your impressions, after all it's more time than most people who played the demo at conventions had. However, it's also just 1 opinion, from 1 person. Nothing bad said about his impressions, after all, it's his opinion and how he experienced things.
Other people can have different opinions though, each person their own taste and viewpoint, here's some other impressions from people who also played SWTOR for 7 to 20 hours (and sometimes more).
[...]
Like said, take 20 people, and you'll have 20 different opinions, and sometimes wildly divergent viewpoints about the same kind of experiences.
Well since nobody knows for sure how the game really is, its much safer to say something nice and look like the positive person/website/magazine.
It can go without saying if you aren't looking forward to SW:TOR you shouldnt have to wait no more then the first month of release to get a fair opinion of the game on whether or not it will be good or bad. These days gamers aren't putting up with the same old tired stuff anymore there are plenty of other games out they can turn to.
Look at AoC for example the game was lacking big time and after the first month after a projected big launch the game died off extremely fast. Until that point in time people will get extremely hyped for SW:TOR only BIoware can let them down.
Comments
This has been my problem all along, it really does not matter what we say until the game goes live or you get to see it with your own eyes there will always be Neg and Pos stuff ranted all the time.{mod edit} I also feel the main problen is that folk like your self without trying to sound like a troll just want to get in beta to see the game...this is the main reason i don't want people like you in beta...This game has so many people who want this to be the next BIG thing, sadly I feel it will be like Rift In Space....All Fluff and no substance.
But I hope I'm wrong because there is not one game out there atm worth my monthly money!
Asbo
this is not true and you know it.
this is not true and you know it.
Ummm it actually is true and several of us have already posted several examples of this from pax west, the hands on impressions in April, etc, but frankly it's worthless to repost what has already been posted when someone doesn't want to see. There is an old saying, there are none so blind as those who will not see. I think it applies here.....over and over again. I think going forward since it seems to be allowed in these forums to post every two word negative and start a new thread I'll start opening up individual threads for every positive impression even though they are lumped together on the official forums. That way everyone will realize that it's a lot easier to jump on the negative bandwagon then to appreciate the better organized positive feedback.There Is Always Hope!
It seems we're just looking at different places. To be honest, I'm really not looking that hard, I just see a shift in the general blogosphere from excitment to somewhat meh.
I'm looking in a similar place to you, I think the term generally positive is quite broad. The game certainly will be delivered with a depth of polish and a host of content to rival and in some aspects exceed the other games in the market. The big negative that is cropping up again and again and again, is the simple fact that it is not innovative in gameplay. The combat is taking the method if it aint broke don't fix it. Alongside this the class mechanics and abilities are also going down this road.
in terms of a release and reception, there is without a doubt this will be an immensley popular game, it is however unlikely to be a game regarded at the highest asteem with serious critics. Much like the Nintendo Wii, its amazing because my gran can get a strike at wii bowling, but there really has been few titles that have done anything remotely interesting with the Wii remote, except for lieing to fat people that it will make them skinny.
Of course it is, in contrast to you I do my factchecking and usually have backing to what I say. Did you read how I debunked your earlier statement that the entire Massively team found SWTOR 'meh'?
Anyway, I'm not going to bother with providing proof to you, you're set in your ways, no matter what people say or come up with you'll be as negative about SWTOR as you can be.
This is a highly subjective thing. I look at the general blogosphere and see that a number of things that people were negative about because SWTOR hadn't revealed anything about it turn to positive and satisfied, knowing that it's ingameand enjoyable.
As for themepark haters, MMO vets who've burnt out on current MMORPG's and desperately crave for something entirely different or innovative, hardcore SWG fans who wanted an SWG2, all those were dissatisfied with SWTOR already for a long time, that won't change.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Ummm yes..... Granted Mass Effect wasn't an MMO, but as an RPG it is definitely considered "the" space opera" with it's cutscenes and voice overs. It is the opinion of many to be one of the best game series ever. I think that many ME fans will play SWTOR simply for that reason.
I dont even have to look back at the website to remember who this guy was. He was the one who wrote the preview of the game before right? The one who just hates MMORPGs in general? =P His opinion did not seem very valid at the time, and it still does not feel valid now. The guy just wants MMOs to be sandbox games like before and refuses to believe that themepark games are the most successful ones, so his opinion of SWTOR is influenced by that.
I really don't get all the direct comparisons of GW2 to SWTOR. I mean, they are different games taking different approaches. One is free, one has a monthly fee. One is focusing on dynamic content while the other is focused on story based choices and static content. One is focusing on action oriented gameplay, one is going the more traditional route. One is focused on gear and progression, one is not.
Personally I am going to buy both games. When one has no monthly fee it kind of eliminates having to make a choice. They both look great and have strong elements to them that each is focused on. Everyone I have talked to who is planning to play SWTOR is going to pickup GW2 as well. I am sure that mentality will stay true for alot of the people picking up the game when it comes out, so the basis of comparison when it comes to financial success will be pretty much impossible. I don't see the point of even debating it. If someone quits SWTOR for GW2 chances are they would have quit anyways. SWTOR's success will be more dependant upon subscriptions whereas GW2 will have success just due to the hype alone. Neither game will affect the other's outcome. The only determining factor is the developers themselves.
Yeah after learning more about SWTOR I actually agree with you.
I see SWTOR as taking the approach of trying to perfect the quest-based formula to its highest degree. it's not so much radical innovation as it is incremental innovation on a formula that is proven to work and be successful.
Whereas I see GW2 as taking the approach of trying to radically change the quest-based formula to something more collaborative. Much more of a radical innovation, with potentially huge payoffs, but maybe a little more risky.
Personally, I side with GW2 just because I'm a bit worn out on the quest based formula. But I'm still planning to play SWTOR.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
There are contested areas in SWTOR that allow one faction or another to control it for rewards, what those will be we have yet to see. Its not just PvP on PvP servers either.
What you are describing is an arena based game which GWs1 had. Thats great if thats what you like, (other games call them battlegrounds or warzones or what have you) but with a game like GW2, I don't see it attracting and keeping people who like SANDBOX style gameplay. What you are describing isn't a sandbox in the slightest. Anyone who would find GW2s system attractive would likely find Global Agendas AvA attractive, or just as you said, LoL or BLC or any number of games like that. Those aren't sandbox fans particularly.
TOR isn't a sandbox game, but neither is GW2, and I'd dare say TOR is much closer on the spectrum to sandbox than GW2 is.
Thanks for the constructive feedback. :-) I like responses like this because even though I am more of a fan of TOR, this is an obviously thoughtful response with no hint of ulterior motives. One could just as easily have ended it by saying I personally side with SWTOR because I am tired of the fantasy realm and I want quests that actually make me feel part of a great story that I pay attention to.
Personally, I hope both games do great. Each has something about them that appeals to me in different ways. I want GW2 because it seems like the kind of game you just jump in with others for that arcade like feel without having to search endlessly for a group..and it does seem innovative in multiple ways...like that initial rush I got when I did my first public quest in War when it had a population...and I want SWTOR because I think it will be a deeper RPG game and I am not tired of games improving on what has already been done.
There Is Always Hope!
Probably it's just me, but I detect a "hint of utlterior motives" in how you describe GW2 as having "that arcade like feel". I found that ironic
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
That really depends on what type of player you are. GW2s open dynamic events is like that, yes. But if you want to do dungeons you will still have to spend time getting a good group, some of those dungeons will be really hard so even if you don't need a holy triad group it will still take time to get a good group. Same thing with PvP, the mists is just to jump into but Guild Vs guild and arenas will take a really good group.
Both games have their strenghts and weaknesses. I will crown the winner for me once they release, even though I am partial to GW2 because I like Tyria.
Its so funny to me how sensitive GW2 fans are even when complimenting a game. I didn't mean arcade like in a negative way. Before my first MMO in 2003 or so, my favorite games were things like Gauntlet, Diablo, Venture for ColecoVision (god Im old lol) etc that had an arcade feel to them. Those games were huge at the time. To me, GW2 seems to want to satisfy that craving for me in an MMO world that I haven't felt in a long time other than that initial rush with War due to the innovation (for the first month or two lol). I mean it in a good way, a lot of instant action. Can you put away your pitch fork now? lol
There Is Always Hope!
Can you provide a link to the dungeons? Most of what I have seen is the open world chained events and underwater action. That is good news, but Id like to see more of that. Anyway, I think Im posting in the wrong forums now lol sorry.
There Is Always Hope!
Here is a great review of the GW2 dungeons. http://www.killtenrats.com/2011/06/29/gwfanday-the-dungeon-gel/
There was a video released at the same time as the embedded intro in that article, but it's pretty underwhelming. It's not gameplay, it's like a flyover of people playing badly. No dodging, no casting on the move, no cross profession combos.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
OP. I 'review' games, movies or books, and decide for myself. The material being released by SWTOR are the 'previews of coming attractions' that give me a little insight into the game. Just like the splog on the inside of a book jacket give me an idea what the book is about. Sorry you didn't care about SWTOR but that has little to do with the game itself as you wrote only about general impressions on general areas and all of it subjective. I too am subjective and will cast my final vote with my wallet.
Posts with loads of 'tired of the same ole thing' are numerous. I fear such critics would be (are) tired of the same ole E=Mc2 from Einstein. Nothing will please but something 'new' or 'innovative' according to their own interpretation of course. How about a post on what you think would be 'new and innovative', then try and sell it to investors. I for one would finally like to hear sone actual new and innovative ideas, especially from complaining posters.
There are many posters here on the forums, as you cruise thru them, who have some interesting and fascinating ideas about the contents, even the genre, of games being reviewed. You have given your opinion, rightfully so. Mine is different. I will buy it and see if I am right. I am curious, will you buy it to review it again or move on to something else? I am betting that Bioware is counting on 'my' review more than yours since I speak with my wallet.
You sound intelligent and articulate, I just think you are wrong on SWTOR.
I find your analysis of people who are 'tired of the same ol' thing' somewhat blind to what I think is the core of the issue.
I think, and this is my analysis that I believe fits the situation of people I know and may not apply to everyone, that people 'tired of the same ol' thing' either want a better reason to play yet another game than its in a shiny new IP that I like, or never really liked the parts of games that they feel are tired and thus want to see something new and different.
The core of it is that if you aren't having fun playing the same kind of game that WoW and its clones (yes...a narrow minded way of simplifying the description what people are calling 'tired of the same ol' thing') are, of course you want something new, better, and innovative.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Come on OP don't hit and run. Where is the bad press of the game that you claimed were "coming in"? We're waiting.......
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
8 hours? wow, I wouldnt listen to anyone who played an mmo for 8 hours.
Some people will prefere GW2 over SWTOR, and some will prefere SWTOR over GW2, it would be damn crazy if one of the games would shut down the other, and it's not going to happen.
Heck, just because I'd take an espresso over a cappucino any day, it doesnt mean that everyone else would or should aswell, a review is the reviewers personal opinion, and not a fact.
People need to stop threating reviews as a fact and an opinion that everyone will agree on, who cares if some random dude didnt like it, just because he's able to publish his opinion doesnt make it so.
Welll it makes him less random than we are, doesn't it?
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
That's true, I agree that 8 hours is nice to form your impressions, after all it's more time than most people who played the demo at conventions had. However, it's also just 1 opinion, from 1 person. Nothing bad said about his impressions, after all, it's his opinion and how he experienced things.
Other people can have different opinions though, each person their own taste and viewpoint, here's some other impressions from people who also played SWTOR for 7 to 20 hours (and sometimes more).
All in all Black Talon is probably tied for my favorite experience of the entire weekend. These flashpoints are so well designed and so much fun I cannot wait to see what else BioWare comes out with. One of the primary reasons they excite me so much is that these are great early indications of what the endgame will look like, assuming of course it is tied to flashpoint of some kind which I expect it to be (Musco, Torocast)
After playing Taral V at PAX East, and now The Black Talon at the Fan Site Summit, I feel confident in saying that fans of this kind of group content have all the reasons in the world to believe that BioWare is going to deliver in this area (Lethality, Ask A Jedi)
The story is so woven into everything, it hard to see where the combat ends and the story starts. It's better than most I've played, and on par with the best. But for those looking for the next big leap forward in combat mechanics, you'll need to wait a little longer, because TOR's combat aint it (SWTOR-UK)
Overall I honestly think Bioware wins with general game play. This game is so fun and has so many things to explore and investigate I can only imagine how fun it will be for me once the other game features are released. I can not understand how anyone could not like this game actually but I suppose there will be a few. I know for me though, this play experience has answered a few questions that have been nagging at me (Swtorcrafter)
At the most recent event demonstrating the game I spent two days playing as an Imperial Agent. This is a Sith character, focusing on stealth, subterfuge and sabotage. And perhaps what most surprised me was that this isn’t just what defines my skill tree. It changed how I play the game (Rockpapershotgun)
I think the crucial thing I took away from two days with the game was that I wanted to carry on. It frustrates me that I can’t keep playing, and I’m pretty certain that’s the key to both a good story-led RPG and monthly subbed MMO (Rockpapershotgun)
I'm still not sure how I feel about the Imperial Agent's overall play style, but I really liked the story so far. Having a secret identity made me feel like a ******, and in classic Bioware fashion, there were tough decisions to be made (Dana, IGN)
While we couldn't fully attach to our characters over the two days we were allotted with the game, we were given free reign to get as far as possible in the PvE campaign, talk to any NPCs, take on any quests, and run any flashpoints we could find. And the game is looking great—expansive, immersive, even a little moving in parts. [Bioware] has accomplished the meshing of online play and RPG better than any of their predecessors (Arstechnica)
While the Black Talon [flashpoint] wasn’t ultimately a challenge for our particular group, it definitely put to test everything we’d learned about our classes on Hutta and especially how our classes played together as a group. In the end, there are certainly familiar feelings of running through a group instance together in Flashpoints, but like everything else in Star Wars: The Old Republic, BioWare’s signature storytelling comes through, and this really ends up setting the experience apart from your typical dungeon romp. BioWare’s strengths come through here with the way the story is told visually. Enemies are bursting through walls and boarding your ship, sparks fly everywhere, and huge space battles are erupting outside as you’re making a mad dash through a hangar to board a transport. While you’ll mostly feel like you’re running through your typical MMO dungeon, there is a lot going on screen to draw you into what’s going on whether it’s simply stuff going on in the background or slick cutscenes foreshadowing an epic boss fight (Bitton, mmorpg.com)
While flashpoints are certainly exciting, the quantity and level of difficulty involving the group content - even on the first planet players will experience in the game - is very encouraging. It's a bit of a lost aspect of the MMO genre that has fallen by the wayside as studios focus on more casual aspects of leveling progression, and it's one that will be a welcomed return by many (Curse)
Out of all the ways Star Wars: The Old Republic is excelling, the one prevalant strength it has for me is how it has this pervasive momentum, the same kind that we see in BioWare's best works, where the more you play, the more you want to keep playing. Nem'ro's Palace alone has several conversational NPCs, many of whom will open up possibilities to new quests. There's compulsion to just wander the world, kill things, and just soak in the Star Wars universe, but I'm also conflicted in wanting to forward the plot, side missions or otherwise. It's a nice problem to have (G4TV)
Our massive hands-on showed that this is not the type of MMO many are accustomed to and for all the right reasons. The concentration given to that of the role-playing game makes this far more accessible to those who don’t want the obligation of jumping into a party every five minutes but are, instead, intrigued by the Star Wars fuelled story. Those multiplayer elements exist, and rightfully so, but when played alone, this is a mightier beast compared to what the rest of the genre offers. In short, it could be the Star Wars game the world has always been waiting for (Nowgamer)
Indulge me for a moment here. I am of a small group of people that has spent almost forty hours with The Old Republic, Bioware’s MMO based upon the Star Wars universe. Every hour with the game has been entirely addictive and entertaining. I’ve quested as a Sith Warrior, talked down to NPCs as a Jedi Consular, and walked the fine line between good and bad as a bounty hunter. With this much time invested in the game, you’d think I’d be tired of it. But I’m not. I don’t care about Star Wars that much. MMOs have always been an exercise in frustration for me. Hell, I’ve yet to beat a BioWare game. But BioWare Austin has done a fantastic job maintaining my interest in what may be one of the best games of the year (Perlee, Gamezone)
And about combat and overall gameplay:
The first thing you get when you walk in is the sense of how much has changed. If you remember the Black Talon Flashpoint from past videos, you may be surprised by how much things improved since the last time it was seen. Everything in it just looks vastly better (Sado, Darthhater)
One of the great things about this is that you also still earn experience points when you die, as long as you do not hit the "Return to Med Center" button. While it may seem counter intuitive to lay on the ground dead while your party finishes the fight, all classes can use an out of combat resurrection ability by right clicking on a fallen comrade. This means the Flashpoint will progress more smoothly if incapacitated players wait around for a friend to quickly pick them back up between battles, and the continued experience gain may be the carrot to keep you from self-rezzing at the entrance (Sado, Darthhater)
Bonus quests are available throughout the Flashpoint, and these enable a party to gain access to new bosses who drop different loot. In our case, the bonus objective had us disabling control panels to allow access to a boss droid and, as expected, extra loot dropped as a result. Another bonus quest had us pick up a few objects for something later. This is the earliest Flashpoint in the game for the Sith faction and it seems to focus on teaching boss encounters basic mechanics; we mainly encountered tank and spank boss fights (Sado, Darthhater)
The entire Flashpoint was fluid and enjoyable. The conversations ended up being extremely fun, with people smack talking on the high rolls and lamenting on the low ones. The combat was fast and exciting, and the ability for seasoned players to power through it without a healer was a welcome addition to an early level experience. All in all, it was a pretty good time (Dover, Darthhater)
[Black Talon flashpoint] we technically had no tanks or healers. Although the IA can eventually heal you actually don’t get access to those skills until after selecting the Operative AC at level 10. On the flipside the BH doesn’t have any high threat or healing skills either until after their AC selection. This made each fight a DPS race which made things a bit interesting on boss fights. What I thought was awesome about these boss fights is that they actually had mechanics! Think back to the deadmines in WoW or any first-time dungeon in any other MMO, those fights were just tank-n-spanks but not here. At least half of these bosses had some form of mechanic to mix it up on you (Musco, Torocast)
What I really, really loved about SWTOR and character advancement is their commendation system. Frankly put, commendations are tokens which are random drops and are tied to a zone. As an example I had both Hutta tokens and Black Talon tokens in my inventory by the end of the day. What they are used for is as a form of currency to buy items off of a special goods vendor. Due to the commendations, I was able to purchase three blue quality items before leaving Hutta. Along with a world drop or two, I left the planet with five total blue items! This system really gives incentive for players to kill mobs while traveling. What is great is that even with extra commendations, you can use them to help gear up your companions (Musco, Torocast)
[Black Talon flashpoint] Our companions did what they were set to do, and we didn’t micromanage them at all. Sentinel’s companion Mako was out “healer” and from what I could tell, concentrated on healing him the most but I also noticed the occasional heal-over-time on me going off for 36 health per tick. My companion, Kaliyo, just stuck around the perimeter and pumped whoever I was attacking full of blaster bolts (Lethality, Ask A Jedi)
[Black Talon flashpoint] Here are a few other observations: Size – It’s huge! We didn’t finish the Flashpoint, but I would say we spent a good 30 minutes getting to where we were. I don’t know how far we were from the end, but it definitely felt like we were accomplishing something meaningful. Design – It’s Star Warsy! Seriously though, traipsing through the large hangars really made me feel like I was dropped in the middle of a Star Wars movie (Lethality, Ask A Jedi)
You have to remember that, SWTOR was designed for you to take on 3 or 4 mob's at the same time, and the sooner you adapt to this fact, the faster you progress, and your enjoyment of the game increases tenfold. Most everything from the early levels comes in groups of 3 or 4. The best way I found on the day, was to take my AOE, the wrist rocket, pepper each of the mobs in turn (SWTOR-UK)
I would like to say the combat is ground breaking, but it is no such thing. It does however feel right for the IP, and you do get a sense, that great things are just around the corner. It's a very hard thing to try to predict, how combat and a class feels in these most tender of moments at lower levels. What I can say, is this, as an mmo, will have you in combat more that anything else you have played to-date. It takes you to a sweet spot, that falls between mmo, and shooter. This is were the cut scenes are a welcome brake in you quest lines. You tend to have a more forward thinking approach, to the way you enter a combat situation. You are forever checking what is around you, and where a group of mobs that are close by, to see if they could come into combat rage with you. Picking you moment to strike, or hold off till the added danger has moved on, is an important step to staying alive (SWTOR-UK)
I really think the balance of how hard the mobs are in the starting area is ok, some have said they were too hard but I found them to be average power wise (Swtorcrafter)
What we were more curious about, or worried about, was how the RPG emphasis would get along with the MMO part of the game. The most innovative concept is the holo-communication between players. When a player begins a conversation with a quest-giver, a window automatically opens on the screens of other players in the group, asking them to join the conversation. If they stop what they're doing and accept, a hologram version of them appears at the side of their group member, and they're able to watch and participate in the dialogue that follows. Seeing the dialogue is not strictly necessary to getting the related quest, as there is still a "share" button in the quest log to loop in stragglers. But it's a great solution to preserving the RPG experience when dealing with a group of players without forcing the entire group to, for instance, move around a city together. Instead, the group can scatter to complete class quests or visit trainers and vendors, and at the same time pick up quests for the group in the areas they travel. They still get to experience all of the story with a fraction of the legwork (Arstechnica)
As far as group mechanics, few classes are cut and dry, which makes it easier to run heroic quests or flashpoints with a cobbled-together group of players. I ran a level 10 flashpoint, Black Talon, with another imperial agent and two bounty hunters, and we never suffered for lack of a particular class mechanic. The bounty hunters made decent makeshift tanks as we ran around saving the Imperial ship from Republic attackers, and since all classes could heal themselves out of battle, there was little downtime (Arstechnica)
Erickson stressed that none of the multiplayer game experiences are compulsory. " You never have to play PvP, you never have to play a heroic, you never have to play a flashpoint," he said. But since you lose none of the single-player experience by grouping up, and you get access to heroics and flashpoints you would otherwise have to miss, there isn't much reason not to try it. Players that are trying to hit max level, level 50, as quickly as possible are going to want to get in on the group action (Arstechnica)
Grouping on Hutta was actually still quite fun. Sidequest dialogue can all be done in multiplayer and so you can start earning your Dark Side and Light Side points along with your friends while having to suffer the consequences of their choices if they make a decision you didn’t want to and win the conversation roll. This may sound like a negative, but it’s actually incredibly social and fun; there’s a kind of “party game” element to it (Bitton, mmorpg.com)
Grouping made things go faster for sure, but what was really interesting was the inclusion of Heroic quest content even on the starting world. We discovered a heroic quest that sent us deep within the bowels of Hutta to wipe out some unsavory characters and creatures in the sewers and found that our group cohesion was quite adequately tested. Crowd controlling enemies, target prioritization, etc., were all important for us to get through the encounter, which ultimately culminated with a fight against a robotic mini-boss who was guarding a glowing Datacron. Datacrons are scattered throughout the game world and offer unique permanent boosts to your statistics. This Datacron was actually part of a set, which when completed would offer even more significant bonuses according to BioWare’s Daniel Erickson (Bitton, mmorpg.com)
We wanted the full-bore experience of playing a massively multiplayer Star Wars game, and that also meant the grouping aspect. So we set out to do something no one else at the immersion day decided to take part in. You see, from the get-go Star Wars: The Old Republic has group content. Many of its features are even designed around group play. They want you to be social, to interact with other players nearby and form lasting relationships in the game. One such feature we were told about before we even sat in front of our stations to play the game, is the holo-com. It takes 'quest' npc interaction -- called missions in The Old Republic -- to an entirely new level. If you're not in range to go join your groupmate at the NPC, you can simply click a button and join the conversation via your holo-communicator. This in essence means that only one person ever has to actually be at an NPC to begin or turn in a mission -- everyone else can be remote and still interact in the conversation portion. another system designed to encourage the multiplayer aspect of MMO is 'Social Points,' a sort of ancillary experience bar. As you participate in conversations with a group, each person is allowed to select the dialogue response they'd like to see play out (Curse)
We'd done something none of their internal testers have ever done: we focused on group content above and beyond anything else, wherever possible. While the first group-based content doesn't come along until right around level five, it's definitely there. Foregoing our class story missions until around level nine, we instead took on the 'heroic' content on the trash planet Hutta. It's stuff that you absolutely must form a group to tackle. It was actually a challenge. Though we struggled along the way we eventually did complete the heroic quests on Hutta. The reward was fantastic: a blue quality item and a lot of experience, not only from turning in the quests, but also from doing the content itself. We managed to outpace everyone else on levels, even while being grouped up doing group-based content, which has notoriously been slower than leveling by yourself in more recent MMOs (Curse)
once a group enters a Flashpoint, the event tends to be exciting. Our Flashpoint regarded a mutinous Empire ship, and player decisions included killing or forgiving the mutinous group, finding and destroying items, searching for a traitor, and defeating a Padawan jedi. These missions are very satisfying, offer loads of experience and decent loot, and provide a great way to pad out a character when the game’s difficulty becomes intense (Perlee, Gamezone)
Like said, take 20 people, and you'll have 20 different opinions, and sometimes wildly divergent viewpoints about the same kind of experiences.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Source? Can you give us a link or something to look at? What game is this a review for?
Well since nobody knows for sure how the game really is, its much safer to say something nice and look like the positive person/website/magazine.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
It can go without saying if you aren't looking forward to SW:TOR you shouldnt have to wait no more then the first month of release to get a fair opinion of the game on whether or not it will be good or bad. These days gamers aren't putting up with the same old tired stuff anymore there are plenty of other games out they can turn to.
Look at AoC for example the game was lacking big time and after the first month after a projected big launch the game died off extremely fast. Until that point in time people will get extremely hyped for SW:TOR only BIoware can let them down.