Problem is most the things you listed for endgame are after thoughts and or dumb down to the point that it does not matter if they're in the game or not.
Look at how poor Rift's endgame turned out to be.... I don't see ToR being that much better.
And please if you going to give crafting as an endgame option please, please don't give some dumb down crap. Take a page from SWG, EQ2, LotRO and FE for examples of how crafting should be handled in an mmo.
As it stands ToR's endgame is nothing but chasing the carrot for better gear.
We don't actually kinow if the end-game is a dumb down version or after thought. Unless you have some proof i don't have on this.
You can guess on how dumb down the end-game is but i believe until people have gotten a chance to try it that that is all it is..guessing.
Also you can't compare one companies end-game with another, each company may handle things differently
As for crafting, it appears almost an exact replica of FE crafting in the sense that you pick up materials, and craft them via companies on a timer exactly how FE does. So i'd say the crafting is more akin to FE then any other MMO.
As for the last sentance yeah it appears that way. Some people are tired of it, some are not. If you finally exhaust of the end-game which you will after a while then you can simply reroll or PvP or help someone else out.
I've always seen end-game as the twiddle your thumbs point until more comes out, and i don't see this changing at all in the upcoming future. I see that in ToR, GW2, TSW, and even Tera. As all are themeparks the end-game will always come down to either redoing old content (quests, DE or grinding mobs) and running dungeons/PvP
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Yep. So many people level up, get bored, level another alt, get bored, level another alt, then end their subscription and buy another theme-park game and do it all over again. Theme-park games are all the rage I guess, but it results in over-hyped games that fade quickly. SWTOR is a theme-park game on steriods because of the voice-over "story" mode. Might be a great story, but I don't like to read the same book over and over and over.
Granted, good thing theres 16 stories of content (8 classes x 2 for the light/dark side versions) before you even start repeating content.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I'd say probally the same totally pointless carrot-on-a-stick pve garbage most mmo's puke out. Need to use that raid gear (and have it be the best gear for pvp) and pvp, for land control or something meaningful. We have 2 factions here, the game IMO is garbage if there is not some form of pvp land control between the 2 factions.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Just the 6hrs of leaked video game play I watched Whilan.
And the info given out so far and the info at E3 this year.... all of which has looked sorta bleh and disappointing.
ToR comes off as an online game and not an online world to play in and its treadmill endgame of chasing the carrot on the stick for better gear has already been done and beaten to death with WoW.
Sorry but do you people really not see what is being done here with ToR?
Love Starwars but see ToR for what it is and ask yourself why they spent so much money and yet have nothing really to show for it?
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE Waiting on: Lost Ark Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
.its the endgamers that will see all of the content, that encludes the leveling content and the endgame in the end by bashing on endgame and saying its pointless is just hurting your own game experiance.
I'm inclined to disagree with you here. In my own experience, "endgamers" are people who rush to levelcap, then complain they have nothing to do (as a general rule). In some games, it is possible to level cap in under 30 days - in some games, it can be done in under 14 days. You cannot honestly mean to say that all of a game's content can be experienced in just 14-30 days, can you? Because based upon your word choice, that is exactly what you seem to be saying, and as a general rule, no endgamers under the definition most apply to the term, do not even come close to experiencing "all" of any game's content.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Just the 6hrs of leaked video game play I watched Whilan.
And the info given out so far and the info at E3 this year.... all of which has looked sorta bleh and disappointing.
ToR comes off as an online game and not an online world to play in and its treadmill endgame of chasing the carrot on the stick for better gear has already been done and beaten to death with WoW.
Sorry but do you people really not see what is being done here with ToR?
Love Starwars but see ToR for what it is and ask yourself why they spent so much money and yet have nothing really to show for it?
I see you are looking forward to EQ next and GW2...
Originally posted by SaintViktor How do you ask people to continue doing the same old trend when they have been doing it for the past 7+ years now. I dunno, I think it is going to be a very interesting launch lol.
and yet people never tire of complaining about meaningless shit on a forum. funny how human nature works.
The endgame, for me, has NEVER been raids, dungeon gear grinds, and dailies.
[SNIP]
It's refreshing to finally see MMOs that realize that a great many of us do NOT live for stupid endgame raids, gear/reputation grinds, PvP, and dailies but instead roll an alt character. I don't care that these other "endgame" activites are in the game, but that kind of dren is not -- and never has been -- MY endgame.
TOR will have Dailies, Dungeons and raids along with some type of instanced pvp.
If u think that wont be the focus you are kidding yourself. Obviously u can keep rerolling but sooner or later u will burn out just like the "hamster wheel" players.
Personally im just hoping the content is fun. it doesnt bother me that its mechanics are similar to other games.
I agree with Z3 on this one, Tho they did say there will be 200+ Hours of single player content for each class, that does not make leveling the focus. Going threw the levels will tell great stories and break up the standard of questing from opening a log reading some text (in my case not reading) and will pull you into the story. But at the same time the raids and the end game pvp are were the war between the republic and the empire. As for the endgame being dribble and stupid...its the endgamers that will see all of the content, that encludes the leveling content and the endgame in the end by bashing on endgame and saying its pointless is just hurting your own game experiance.
My point was not that SWTOR won't have that kind of stuff but that I won't be playing it. I prefer rolling alts, and at least in TOR Bioware is making a concerted effort to offer those of us who enjoy rolling new toons/classes a better and more unique experience.
I think this is a refreshing and very fundamental difference from most MMO "endgames.
I am in agreement with tmr819. I want to enjoy the game. I love creating and playing alts. I really don't care about 'endgame' altho from the loudness and virulence of power levelers and endgamers (not to mention PvPers) the endgame is the only purpose they play the game.
So I will add another item for the endgame fanbois to rage. Solo endgame. All of your companions can go with you for raids and dungeons. There is a solo endgame thread and it contains some of the most virulent 'hate' I have yet seen on these forums. It is not as if adding a 'solo endgame' will in any way intefere with the regular endgame play(ers), it just seems that they want to deny others having it.
So lets hear it for main/alts solo play with good grouping, good quests, solid guilds, interesting and effective crafting, companions, separate PvP zones or instances, good character immersion, regular and solo endgames with interesting and exciting updates and expansions. SWTOR looks pretty good to me and I will vote in the only poll that counts, my wallet poll.
I'm wondering when the writer is going to apologize for writing an article so misinformed per Gaou's comments above regarding open world PVP. Hopefully he will stay a guest writer.
Yep. So many people level up, get bored, level another alt, get bored, level another alt, then end their subscription and buy another theme-park game and do it all over again. Theme-park games are all the rage I guess, but it results in over-hyped games that fade quickly. SWTOR is a theme-park game on steriods because of the voice-over "story" mode. Might be a great story, but I don't like to read the same book over and over and over.
I agree 100%. I so want to play the game just for the story arcs but the more days go by and I have time to think, I dont think i'll give BW a red penny of my hard earned money. Its sad that the amount of themepark failures since WoW released yet companys are willing to pony up the dough to make the same exact game.
Vote with your wallet fellow burnt out gamers and dont play.
On the other hand OMG does TSW jsut keep looking better and better or what. as soon as some of those animation issues are cleared up I think its gonna be a contender for burnt out old school gamers like myself.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Just the 6hrs of leaked video game play I watched Whilan.
And the info given out so far and the info at E3 this year.... all of which has looked sorta bleh and disappointing.
To you, maybe, to the majority of people who actually played the game they had a great time. Get it in your head: different people, different tastes, and not everyone has the same taste as you. Also, there's quite the difference whether you read about a game or see some videos or whether you've actually played the game.
ToR comes off as an online game and not an online world to play in and its treadmill endgame of chasing the carrot on the stick for better gear has already been done and beaten to death with WoW.
Sorry but do you people really not see what is being done here with ToR?
Love Starwars but see ToR for what it is and ask yourself why they spent so much money and yet have nothing really to show for it?
Funny, I've watched it all too and come to different conclusions, but maybe I'm a bit more objective than you, and less prejudiced.
I see an online world when I watch SWTOR footage, as much an online world as when I watch WoW or LotrO footage. Frankly, it baffles me that you can conclude otherwise than that SWTOR is as much an online world and MMORPG as those other MMORPG's like WoW, LotrO, Aion, Rift etc. There is NO indication when watching that footage that'll make you think otherwise unless you're severely biased against SWTOR.
See TOR for what it is: an AAA themepark MMORPG with all the features that come with it, if that's not your thing, don't blame SWTOR for being of a subgenre that you've grown to despise.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Problem is most the things you listed for endgame are after thoughts and or dumb down to the point that it does not matter if they're in the game or not.
Look at how poor Rift's endgame turned out to be.... I don't see ToR being that much better.
And please if you going to give crafting as an endgame option please, please don't give some dumb down crap. Take a page from SWG, EQ2, LotRO and FE for examples of how crafting should be handled in an mmo.
As it stands ToR's endgame is nothing but chasing the carrot for better gear.
Exactly. A good endgame is a thoroughly developed part of the overall base game, that just happens to remain worth doing, even at the level cap. Not something that just gets tacked on at the cap, with no relevance to the rest of the game / gameworld.
TOR is reminding me a lot of Rift, too. Like they're just throwing these "endgame" things in there to check them off a list, not because they're an integral part of the core game.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
With sadness, I expect SWTOR's end game to be just like WoW's end game, but with dialogue trees. I blame myself and all of you for the sad state of MMOs (WoW = SWTOR = Rift = AoC = EQ2, etc) because we keeping buying these soulless, unoriginal games. A MMORPG game designer today is nothing more than an expert in cut, copy, paste, and add a fresh coat of paint. Blizzard even copies itself: WoW Cataclysm and 4.2 patch are simple copies of what's come before. I know I will buy SWTOR and enjoy it for a bit, but all too soon I will bore of the quest hub design and action bar combat 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 4, yawn. Anyway, it's a nice summer day here, going to go bike around the lake +30 exp and you looted an ice cream cone.
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
Bioware seems to have done alot to bring their own flavor to the genre. Take for example the cutscenes. Adding actual story will help to connect to your charecter instead of the armor set, and will help to immerse you into the Star Wars world. Companion characters will be a huge change considering they do everything from fill in empty spots on instance runs, streamline crafting and gathering, and adding another depth to the choices you make in the story.
Hating on SWTOR because they chose a model type is like hating you as person because you have the same haircut as your neighbor. I'm not saying this is the "end all, be all" of all games because I havn't had a chance to play yet. That would be as ignorant as saying this is horrible game without seeing little more than a few videos.
You can tell that this "preview" or w/e it was, wasn't written by a staff writer. Half the information is completely false, and the Writer is just assuming things, even though multiple dev interviews and fansite questions have given us solid answers.
In all this "preview" or w/e is a complete waste of space.
I'm pleased about the warzones. I'd prefer objective based team pvp over small deathmatches. I think TOR will be a lot of fun.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
wishing and wanting and thinking what might be does not make it a reality people. you truely have no idea how endgame will end up of what it will be like unless u have played it.
I look forward to the journey not the destination i can not wait to play this game no matter how it turns out.
I am for the republic i will be playing a jedi but I will not follow the jedi code blindly. reason is my only soverienty and the only one allowed to rule me. my decisions are mine no matter the consequences.
However there is no way I will follow the sith because I can not allow passion to rule reason or I am embracing death. dead is dead no matter the cause.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
With sadness, I expect SWTOR's end game to be just like WoW's end game, but with dialogue trees. I blame myself and all of you for the sad state of MMOs (WoW = SWTOR = Rift = AoC = EQ2, etc) because we keeping buying these soulless, unoriginal games. A MMORPG game designer today is nothing more than an expert in cut, copy, paste, and add a fresh coat of paint. Blizzard even copies itself: WoW Cataclysm and 4.2 patch are simple copies of what's come before. I know I will buy SWTOR and enjoy it for a bit, but all too soon I will bore of the quest hub design and action bar combat 1, 1, 2, 3, 1, 1, 4, yawn. Anyway, it's a nice summer day here, going to go bike around the lake +30 exp and you looted an ice cream cone.
You LFG? 33 cleric here, and Im dying for an ice cream
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
And yet there are 3 or more MMOs out there that are in development promising to do things quite differently (The Secret World, ArcheAge, World of Darkness Online just for starters). I sense that people's frustration with SW:TOR hewing to the old "basic" template is due to them wondering why they should be excited over this when there are multiple other options on the horizon. We're not talking about past games that have tried, but concurrent games that are offering something different.
Further, while any game can have any kind of setting, there is only one Star Wars universe (and apparently there can only be one SW MMO), so surely you can understand if someone is a SW fan, wanting to play a SW MMO, and finds that this is turning out not to be the kind of game they wanted to play, they might be a bit miffed. It's not like they can pop down the line and pick up another fantasy or sci-fi game that scratches that itch.
this game will not have a true endgame if done right it will continue to grow and expand and the war grows into full furry. at least it will not have a a true endgame until the are ready to shut the game down for good.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
Bioware seems to have done alot to bring their own flavor to the genre. Take for example the cutscenes. Adding actual story will help to connect to your charecter instead of the armor set, and will help to immerse you into the Star Wars world. Companion characters will be a huge change considering they do everything from fill in empty spots on instance runs, streamline crafting and gathering, and adding another depth to the choices you make in the story.
Hating on SWTOR because they chose a model type is like hating you as person because you have the same haircut as your neighbor. I'm not saying this is the "end all, be all" of all games because I havn't had a chance to play yet. That would be as ignorant as saying this is horrible game without seeing little more than a few videos.
Very well put. The FPS analogy is perfect. I think people hear phrases like "daily" or "raid" and they automatically assume it will be a WoW clone. I have read posts that can be translated to something like: "This game has hotbars, gear, dailes, and raids??? What a WoW rip off!" Personally, I think that those are standard game mechanics that every MMO will have. I have also seen people compare the art styles/design. That being said however, I do not see WoW when I look at SWTOR videos.
If you take an in depth look at the game, it seems to draw more inspiration from games like the Dragon Age series and AoC. I say this because much like DA , there are alignment choices as well as companion characters. The story is presented in the same cinematic fashion and the characters are fully voiced. (The fact that they also can help with crafting alone is an innovatrion!)
The combat is NOTHING like WoW, yet we keep hearing "it's WoW with lightsabers!" If anything, the combat reminds me partially of AoC (or heck, even CoX). Much like AoC and CoX, there is no auto attack. There are only abilities that you have to continually use.
As mentioned before there are also dialouge choices like AoC. (AoC was not fully voiced, however). Yet despite the similarities to other titles, people continue to compare it to WoW. I suppose those same individuals would consider Dragon Age and AoC to be WoW rip offs too.
Other than the fact that this is a star wars MMO, this game seems original and innovative to me. I have never played an MMO that is fully voiced with cinematic style cutscenes and companion characters.
There is no question that Star Wars: The Old Republic is going to hit the MMO market and hit it big. Some will doubtless rush to hit level cap and then...? Well, that is the question, isn't it? It's certainly one that MMORPG.com's Greg Dodd wants to try to answer. Check out Greg's thoughts about SWTOR's end game and then add your voice to the mix.
So you’ve finally done it, you hit the level cap. Hours spent gathering, slaying and exploring have all culminated in this most glorious of moments. Of course a celebration is in order, but after all the fireworks and champagne the inevitable question arises; what now? For some, it’s right back to the field gathering materials and supplies for that epic armor set. Others dive straight into PVP, honing their skills and farming points or marks for gear. For the PVE-ers it’s into the instances we go, building up an assortment of quality items to take on bigger, more challenging bosses and raids. This has been the way of things for quite some time now, and with The Old Republic on the horizon it’s time to take a look at what it will be bringing to its endgame experience. Will it be more of the same, or will BioWare be our “only hope” for something new? Let’s go over what we know.
Dark side and light side will have no effect what-so-ever on your abilities. The only thing they do is represent what gear sets you can equip and how people treat you. The only disclosed raid count is currently at 8, "20ish" is a good estimate" for the big raid though. It will consist of normal/hard modes and be the same raid just different size. (possibily similar to WoW where it shares the same lockout,ect)
Although crafting is done by your companions, it is pretty much identical to what most other game's have as far as involvement. The key difference being that you can do it whenever you want instead of afking in town after hitting "create all". There will be a list of recipes, the requirements ect and then I am assuming you hit a button to make it but the companion goes out and does it. This works offline as well.
Also, they have said they are working on open world pvp and that they have not announced the details yet. I would assume this means more then if you are on a PvP server you can attack the other faction. The only thing we know about this so far is that one or two of the planets will be contested pvp areas, even on PvE servers.
Also, they have said they are working on open world pvp and that they have not announced the details yet. I would assume this means more then if you are on a PvP server you can attack the other faction. The only thing we know about this so far is that one or two of the planets will be contested pvp areas, even on PvE servers.
Just as another real-market example, this is where Rift failed for me and one of my biggest concerns for Biware; providing more of the same, essentially and not delivering on open-world massively multiplayer. Trion also said last year, and then months ago that they would inject open-world or RvR-like pvp if there was interest.
Don't trust developers at their word; it's mostly filled with gross generalizations and empty promises.
After scores of posts in support, thousands of supportive responses, mods begain closing threads. . .Trion thought most would forget; most didn't, and now they are bleeding sub losses.
SW:TOR is setting itself-up as another overly glorified single-player rpg wrapped in the disguise of a mmorpg; the same mmorpg that most have played before, but with a different story.
I hope I'm wrong, but "working on open-world pvp" sounds like more snake-oil in the midst of reality; heavily instanced planets of 8v8 within instances of instances.
Also, they have said they are working on open world pvp and that they have not announced the details yet. I would assume this means more then if you are on a PvP server you can attack the other faction. The only thing we know about this so far is that one or two of the planets will be contested pvp areas, even on PvE servers.
Just as another real-market example, this is where Rift failed for me and one of my biggest concerns for Biware; providing more of the same, essentially and not delivering on open-world massively multiplayer. Trion also said last year, and then months ago that they would inject open-world or RvR-like pvp if there was interest.
Don't trust developers at their word; it's mostly filled with gross generalizations and empty promises.
After scores of posts in support, thousands of supportive responses, mods begain closing threads. . .Trion thought most would forget; most didn't, and now they are bleeding sub losses.
SW:TOR is setting itself-up as another overly glorified single-player rpg wrapped in the disguise of a mmorpg; the same mmorpg that most have played before, but with a different story.
I hope I'm wrong, but "working on open-world pvp" sounds like more snake-oil in the midst of reality; heavily instanced planets of 8v8 within instances of instances.
Or you could just be taking what they are saying entirely out of context. They did not promise there would be open world pvp systems on a scale of what you are saying...or RvR. They just said that there will be world pvp, which there will be. WoW has world pvp. All you need is a pvp server for that. They also said there will be pvp on contested planets regardless of server type, which implies there might be some reason to do it. They are not making some huge open world pvp driven game that some people would instantly assume "working on world pvp" means. Hell, it could just be that, a couple of planets where pvp isn't optional as a toggle on PvE servers. You never know.
Bioware and ArenaNet both have been really good about not releasing information for there games until it is actually in the game because everyone knows it is not a good idea to hype people up about systems you don't actually come out with.
There has also not been any indication that Rift is "bleeding subs" as you say. There has been more leaning towards it being a success then anything.
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
And yet there are 3 or more MMOs out there that are in development promising to do things quite differently (The Secret World, ArcheAge, World of Darkness Online just for starters). I sense that people's frustration with SW:TOR hewing to the old "basic" template is due to them wondering why they should be excited over this when there are multiple other options on the horizon. We're not talking about past games that have tried, but concurrent games that are offering something different.
Further, while any game can have any kind of setting, there is only one Star Wars universe (and apparently there can only be one SW MMO), so surely you can understand if someone is a SW fan, wanting to play a SW MMO, and finds that this is turning out not to be the kind of game they wanted to play, they might be a bit miffed. It's not like they can pop down the line and pick up another fantasy or sci-fi game that scratches that itch.
What I am wondering is why people on this site go out of their way to critisize a game that they say they have no interest in.
My theory is that they are so pissed off that so many more people are hyped for a supposed WoW clone then what ever game they are following.
Comments
We don't actually kinow if the end-game is a dumb down version or after thought. Unless you have some proof i don't have on this.
You can guess on how dumb down the end-game is but i believe until people have gotten a chance to try it that that is all it is..guessing.
Also you can't compare one companies end-game with another, each company may handle things differently
As for crafting, it appears almost an exact replica of FE crafting in the sense that you pick up materials, and craft them via companies on a timer exactly how FE does. So i'd say the crafting is more akin to FE then any other MMO.
As for the last sentance yeah it appears that way. Some people are tired of it, some are not. If you finally exhaust of the end-game which you will after a while then you can simply reroll or PvP or help someone else out.
I've always seen end-game as the twiddle your thumbs point until more comes out, and i don't see this changing at all in the upcoming future. I see that in ToR, GW2, TSW, and even Tera. As all are themeparks the end-game will always come down to either redoing old content (quests, DE or grinding mobs) and running dungeons/PvP
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Granted, good thing theres 16 stories of content (8 classes x 2 for the light/dark side versions) before you even start repeating content.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I'd say probally the same totally pointless carrot-on-a-stick pve garbage most mmo's puke out. Need to use that raid gear (and have it be the best gear for pvp) and pvp, for land control or something meaningful. We have 2 factions here, the game IMO is garbage if there is not some form of pvp land control between the 2 factions.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Just the 6hrs of leaked video game play I watched Whilan.
And the info given out so far and the info at E3 this year.... all of which has looked sorta bleh and disappointing.
ToR comes off as an online game and not an online world to play in and its treadmill endgame of chasing the carrot on the stick for better gear has already been done and beaten to death with WoW.
Sorry but do you people really not see what is being done here with ToR?
Love Starwars but see ToR for what it is and ask yourself why they spent so much money and yet have nothing really to show for it?
Played: MCO - EQ/EQ2 - WoW - VG - WAR - AoC - LoTRO - DDO - GW/GW2 - Eve - Rift - FE - TSW - TSO - WS - ESO - AA - BD
Playing: Sims 3 & 4, Diablo3 and PoE
Waiting on: Lost Ark
Who's going to make a Cyberpunk MMO?
I'm inclined to disagree with you here. In my own experience, "endgamers" are people who rush to levelcap, then complain they have nothing to do (as a general rule). In some games, it is possible to level cap in under 30 days - in some games, it can be done in under 14 days. You cannot honestly mean to say that all of a game's content can be experienced in just 14-30 days, can you? Because based upon your word choice, that is exactly what you seem to be saying, and as a general rule, no endgamers under the definition most apply to the term, do not even come close to experiencing "all" of any game's content.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I see you are looking forward to EQ next and GW2...
Boy are you going to be disapointed.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
There Is Always Hope!
I agree 100%. I so want to play the game just for the story arcs but the more days go by and I have time to think, I dont think i'll give BW a red penny of my hard earned money. Its sad that the amount of themepark failures since WoW released yet companys are willing to pony up the dough to make the same exact game.
Vote with your wallet fellow burnt out gamers and dont play.
On the other hand OMG does TSW jsut keep looking better and better or what. as soon as some of those animation issues are cleared up I think its gonna be a contender for burnt out old school gamers like myself.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Funny, I've watched it all too and come to different conclusions, but maybe I'm a bit more objective than you, and less prejudiced.
I see an online world when I watch SWTOR footage, as much an online world as when I watch WoW or LotrO footage. Frankly, it baffles me that you can conclude otherwise than that SWTOR is as much an online world and MMORPG as those other MMORPG's like WoW, LotrO, Aion, Rift etc. There is NO indication when watching that footage that'll make you think otherwise unless you're severely biased against SWTOR.
See TOR for what it is: an AAA themepark MMORPG with all the features that come with it, if that's not your thing, don't blame SWTOR for being of a subgenre that you've grown to despise.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Exactly. A good endgame is a thoroughly developed part of the overall base game, that just happens to remain worth doing, even at the level cap. Not something that just gets tacked on at the cap, with no relevance to the rest of the game / gameworld.
TOR is reminding me a lot of Rift, too. Like they're just throwing these "endgame" things in there to check them off a list, not because they're an integral part of the core game.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
Bioware seems to have done alot to bring their own flavor to the genre. Take for example the cutscenes. Adding actual story will help to connect to your charecter instead of the armor set, and will help to immerse you into the Star Wars world. Companion characters will be a huge change considering they do everything from fill in empty spots on instance runs, streamline crafting and gathering, and adding another depth to the choices you make in the story.
Hating on SWTOR because they chose a model type is like hating you as person because you have the same haircut as your neighbor. I'm not saying this is the "end all, be all" of all games because I havn't had a chance to play yet. That would be as ignorant as saying this is horrible game without seeing little more than a few videos.
You can tell that this "preview" or w/e it was, wasn't written by a staff writer. Half the information is completely false, and the Writer is just assuming things, even though multiple dev interviews and fansite questions have given us solid answers.
In all this "preview" or w/e is a complete waste of space.
I'm pleased about the warzones. I'd prefer objective based team pvp over small deathmatches. I think TOR will be a lot of fun.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
wishing and wanting and thinking what might be does not make it a reality people. you truely have no idea how endgame will end up of what it will be like unless u have played it.
I look forward to the journey not the destination i can not wait to play this game no matter how it turns out.
I am for the republic i will be playing a jedi but I will not follow the jedi code blindly. reason is my only soverienty and the only one allowed to rule me. my decisions are mine no matter the consequences.
However there is no way I will follow the sith because I can not allow passion to rule reason or I am embracing death. dead is dead no matter the cause.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
You LFG? 33 cleric here, and Im dying for an ice cream
And yet there are 3 or more MMOs out there that are in development promising to do things quite differently (The Secret World, ArcheAge, World of Darkness Online just for starters). I sense that people's frustration with SW:TOR hewing to the old "basic" template is due to them wondering why they should be excited over this when there are multiple other options on the horizon. We're not talking about past games that have tried, but concurrent games that are offering something different.
Further, while any game can have any kind of setting, there is only one Star Wars universe (and apparently there can only be one SW MMO), so surely you can understand if someone is a SW fan, wanting to play a SW MMO, and finds that this is turning out not to be the kind of game they wanted to play, they might be a bit miffed. It's not like they can pop down the line and pick up another fantasy or sci-fi game that scratches that itch.
this game will not have a true endgame if done right it will continue to grow and expand and the war grows into full furry. at least it will not have a a true endgame until the are ready to shut the game down for good.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Very well put. The FPS analogy is perfect. I think people hear phrases like "daily" or "raid" and they automatically assume it will be a WoW clone. I have read posts that can be translated to something like: "This game has hotbars, gear, dailes, and raids??? What a WoW rip off!" Personally, I think that those are standard game mechanics that every MMO will have. I have also seen people compare the art styles/design. That being said however, I do not see WoW when I look at SWTOR videos.
If you take an in depth look at the game, it seems to draw more inspiration from games like the Dragon Age series and AoC. I say this because much like DA , there are alignment choices as well as companion characters. The story is presented in the same cinematic fashion and the characters are fully voiced. (The fact that they also can help with crafting alone is an innovatrion!)
The combat is NOTHING like WoW, yet we keep hearing "it's WoW with lightsabers!" If anything, the combat reminds me partially of AoC (or heck, even CoX). Much like AoC and CoX, there is no auto attack. There are only abilities that you have to continually use.
As mentioned before there are also dialouge choices like AoC. (AoC was not fully voiced, however). Yet despite the similarities to other titles, people continue to compare it to WoW. I suppose those same individuals would consider Dragon Age and AoC to be WoW rip offs too.
Other than the fact that this is a star wars MMO, this game seems original and innovative to me. I have never played an MMO that is fully voiced with cinematic style cutscenes and companion characters.
Just wanted to clarify a couple of things:
Dark side and light side will have no effect what-so-ever on your abilities. The only thing they do is represent what gear sets you can equip and how people treat you. The only disclosed raid count is currently at 8, "20ish" is a good estimate" for the big raid though. It will consist of normal/hard modes and be the same raid just different size. (possibily similar to WoW where it shares the same lockout,ect)
Although crafting is done by your companions, it is pretty much identical to what most other game's have as far as involvement. The key difference being that you can do it whenever you want instead of afking in town after hitting "create all". There will be a list of recipes, the requirements ect and then I am assuming you hit a button to make it but the companion goes out and does it. This works offline as well.
Also, they have said they are working on open world pvp and that they have not announced the details yet. I would assume this means more then if you are on a PvP server you can attack the other faction. The only thing we know about this so far is that one or two of the planets will be contested pvp areas, even on PvE servers.
Just as another real-market example, this is where Rift failed for me and one of my biggest concerns for Biware; providing more of the same, essentially and not delivering on open-world massively multiplayer. Trion also said last year, and then months ago that they would inject open-world or RvR-like pvp if there was interest.
Don't trust developers at their word; it's mostly filled with gross generalizations and empty promises.
After scores of posts in support, thousands of supportive responses, mods begain closing threads. . .Trion thought most would forget; most didn't, and now they are bleeding sub losses.
SW:TOR is setting itself-up as another overly glorified single-player rpg wrapped in the disguise of a mmorpg; the same mmorpg that most have played before, but with a different story.
I hope I'm wrong, but "working on open-world pvp" sounds like more snake-oil in the midst of reality; heavily instanced planets of 8v8 within instances of instances.
Or you could just be taking what they are saying entirely out of context. They did not promise there would be open world pvp systems on a scale of what you are saying...or RvR. They just said that there will be world pvp, which there will be. WoW has world pvp. All you need is a pvp server for that. They also said there will be pvp on contested planets regardless of server type, which implies there might be some reason to do it. They are not making some huge open world pvp driven game that some people would instantly assume "working on world pvp" means. Hell, it could just be that, a couple of planets where pvp isn't optional as a toggle on PvE servers. You never know.
Bioware and ArenaNet both have been really good about not releasing information for there games until it is actually in the game because everyone knows it is not a good idea to hype people up about systems you don't actually come out with.
There has also not been any indication that Rift is "bleeding subs" as you say. There has been more leaning towards it being a success then anything.
What I am wondering is why people on this site go out of their way to critisize a game that they say they have no interest in.
My theory is that they are so pissed off that so many more people are hyped for a supposed WoW clone then what ever game they are following.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.