To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
And yet there are 3 or more MMOs out there that are in development promising to do things quite differently (The Secret World, ArcheAge, World of Darkness Online just for starters). I sense that people's frustration with SW:TOR hewing to the old "basic" template is due to them wondering why they should be excited over this when there are multiple other options on the horizon. We're not talking about past games that have tried, but concurrent games that are offering something different.
Further, while any game can have any kind of setting, there is only one Star Wars universe (and apparently there can only be one SW MMO), so surely you can understand if someone is a SW fan, wanting to play a SW MMO, and finds that this is turning out not to be the kind of game they wanted to play, they might be a bit miffed. It's not like they can pop down the line and pick up another fantasy or sci-fi game that scratches that itch.
What I am wondering is why people on this site go out of their way to critisize a game that they say they have no interest in.
My theory is that they are so pissed off that so many more people are hyped for a supposed WoW clone then what ever game they are following.
I wonder that, too, but it can't be for the reason you claim, because if you'll notice it doesn't only happen to SW:TOR. Why, in fact, I think I've seen you somewhere! I wonder where.....
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
And yet there are 3 or more MMOs out there that are in development promising to do things quite differently (The Secret World, ArcheAge, World of Darkness Online just for starters). I sense that people's frustration with SW:TOR hewing to the old "basic" template is due to them wondering why they should be excited over this when there are multiple other options on the horizon. We're not talking about past games that have tried, but concurrent games that are offering something different.
Further, while any game can have any kind of setting, there is only one Star Wars universe (and apparently there can only be one SW MMO), so surely you can understand if someone is a SW fan, wanting to play a SW MMO, and finds that this is turning out not to be the kind of game they wanted to play, they might be a bit miffed. It's not like they can pop down the line and pick up another fantasy or sci-fi game that scratches that itch.
What I am wondering is why people on this site go out of their way to critisize a game that they say they have no interest in.
My theory is that they are so pissed off that so many more people are hyped for a supposed WoW clone then what ever game they are following.
I wonder that, too, but it can't be for the reason you claim, because if you'll notice it doesn't only happen to SW:TOR. Why, in fact, I think I've seen you somewhere! I wonder where.....
In the GW2 forums critisicing a game that I have a (losing) interest in?
But notice how I am not on every guild wars 2 forum on this site spamming the same crap over and over again about how I am not going to play the game and how much I think it sucks. I have seen this in every upcoming game, but for some reason TOR gets the worst of it.
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
And yet there are 3 or more MMOs out there that are in development promising to do things quite differently (The Secret World, ArcheAge, World of Darkness Online just for starters). I sense that people's frustration with SW:TOR hewing to the old "basic" template is due to them wondering why they should be excited over this when there are multiple other options on the horizon. We're not talking about past games that have tried, but concurrent games that are offering something different.
Further, while any game can have any kind of setting, there is only one Star Wars universe (and apparently there can only be one SW MMO), so surely you can understand if someone is a SW fan, wanting to play a SW MMO, and finds that this is turning out not to be the kind of game they wanted to play, they might be a bit miffed. It's not like they can pop down the line and pick up another fantasy or sci-fi game that scratches that itch.
What I am wondering is why people on this site go out of their way to critisize a game that they say they have no interest in.
My theory is that they are so pissed off that so many more people are hyped for a supposed WoW clone then what ever game they are following.
I wonder that, too, but it can't be for the reason you claim, because if you'll notice it doesn't only happen to SW:TOR. Why, in fact, I think I've seen you somewhere! I wonder where.....
In the GW2 forums critisicing a game that I have a (losing) interest in?
But notice how I am not on every guild wars 2 forum on this site spamming the same crap over and over again about how I am not going to play the game and how much I think it sucks. I have seen this in every upcoming game, but for some reason TOR gets the worst of it.
I think its because people are stupid and are calling it a witch without any proof it is so. because they are afriad this game may be a success and appearently ignorantly calling it a fail or the same as every other endgame without any real cause to do so. but you cant cure stupid so let them flame over what they could possibly not know. it just shows how ignorant they are and makes them look bad.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
Bioware seems to have done alot to bring their own flavor to the genre. Take for example the cutscenes. Adding actual story will help to connect to your charecter instead of the armor set, and will help to immerse you into the Star Wars world. Companion characters will be a huge change considering they do everything from fill in empty spots on instance runs, streamline crafting and gathering, and adding another depth to the choices you make in the story.
Hating on SWTOR because they chose a model type is like hating you as person because you have the same haircut as your neighbor. I'm not saying this is the "end all, be all" of all games because I havn't had a chance to play yet. That would be as ignorant as saying this is horrible game without seeing little more than a few videos.
Pray tell, which is more like the the other. SWToR is to WoW as GW2 is to WoW.
Simple and concise analogy that proves your statement false. If you cant see the massive similarityes between games like ToR and WoW and the massive differences of GW and WoW then your argument is moot!
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
Bioware seems to have done alot to bring their own flavor to the genre. Take for example the cutscenes. Adding actual story will help to connect to your charecter instead of the armor set, and will help to immerse you into the Star Wars world. Companion characters will be a huge change considering they do everything from fill in empty spots on instance runs, streamline crafting and gathering, and adding another depth to the choices you make in the story.
Hating on SWTOR because they chose a model type is like hating you as person because you have the same haircut as your neighbor. I'm not saying this is the "end all, be all" of all games because I havn't had a chance to play yet. That would be as ignorant as saying this is horrible game without seeing little more than a few videos.
Pray tell, which is more like the the other. SWToR is to WoW as GW2 is to WoW.
Simple and concise analogy that proves your statement false. If you cant see the massive similarityes between games like ToR and WoW and the massive differences of GW and WoW then your argument is moot!
I agree with you both. saying something so much trying to make is a common phrase the phrase eventually looses any validity so saying SWTOR is like WoW has pretty much lost all its validity in this thread do you no agree.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
What I am wondering is why people on this site go out of their way to critisize a game that they say they have no interest in.
My theory is that they are so pissed off that so many more people are hyped for a supposed WoW clone then what ever game they are following.
I wonder that, too, but it can't be for the reason you claim, because if you'll notice it doesn't only happen to SW:TOR. Why, in fact, I think I've seen you somewhere! I wonder where.....
In the GW2 forums critisicing a game that I have a (losing) interest in?
But notice how I am not on every guild wars 2 forum on this site spamming the same crap over and over again about how I am not going to play the game and how much I think it sucks. I have seen this in every upcoming game, but for some reason TOR gets the worst of it.
This isn't the SWTOR forum. It's the NEWS forum.
And I gave a very compelling reason why people might be upset about SW:TOR in particular. It's STAR WARS. A lot of people want to play a STAR WARS MMO, and there can only be one. If one fantasy game isn't to one's liking, one can go play another. If the only Star Wars MMO isn't to one's liking, what does one play? Does one wait another decade for Lucas Arts' license to run out and someone else be willing to put a couple hundred million into creating a different Star Wars MMO?
Edit: But this is all off-topic anyway. I merely sought to answer your (probably rhetorical) question. Contrary to what you may believe, people don't all have it out for SW:TOR.
Well, I think the problem is Greg you come from a WoW background so you analyse and compare every mmo on that yard-stick. Bioware have a longer pedigree in the RPG market than Blizzard, and the fact this is a space-tech mmo in the star wars universe should pretty distance itself from WoW. Given that you will probably have to spend a signifcant ammount of time going through a story filled journey to level cap and can't head in straight to a WoW gear tread mill I would have to write that your article is a weak one....why not evaluate SW:TOR on its own merits without having to fall back on your WoW perspective...it seems such a rigid and narrow outlook.
I belive theres that last thing about end game they didn't mention yet. They said it was never done in an mmo before. So if you are looking for something totally new, theres still a chance you will be pleasantly surprised.
There is no question that Star Wars: The Old Republic is going to hit the MMO market and hit it big. Some will doubtless rush to hit level cap and then...? Well, that is the question, isn't it? It's certainly one that MMORPG.com's Greg Dodd wants to try to answer. Check out Greg's thoughts about SWTOR's end game and then add your voice to the mix.
So you’ve finally done it, you hit the level cap. Hours spent gathering, slaying and exploring have all culminated in this most glorious of moments. Of course a celebration is in order, but after all the fireworks and champagne the inevitable question arises; what now? For some, it’s right back to the field gathering materials and supplies for that epic armor set. Others dive straight into PVP, honing their skills and farming points or marks for gear. For the PVE-ers it’s into the instances we go, building up an assortment of quality items to take on bigger, more challenging bosses and raids. This has been the way of things for quite some time now, and with The Old Republic on the horizon it’s time to take a look at what it will be bringing to its endgame experience. Will it be more of the same, or will BioWare be our “only hope” for something new? Let’s go over what we know.
Dark side and light side will have no effect what-so-ever on your abilities. The only thing they do is represent what gear sets you can equip and how people treat you. The only disclosed raid count is currently at 8, "20ish" is a good estimate" for the big raid though. It will consist of normal/hard modes and be the same raid just different size. (possibily similar to WoW where it shares the same lockout,ect)
Although crafting is done by your companions, it is pretty much identical to what most other game's have as far as involvement. The key difference being that you can do it whenever you want instead of afking in town after hitting "create all". There will be a list of recipes, the requirements ect and then I am assuming you hit a button to make it but the companion goes out and does it. This works offline as well.
Also, they have said they are working on open world pvp and that they have not announced the details yet. I would assume this means more then if you are on a PvP server you can attack the other faction. The only thing we know about this so far is that one or two of the planets will be contested pvp areas, even on PvE servers.
Thats not true according to the information they released, supposedly dark, light and neutral will all give you different ability options not open to the other alignments.
i Hope that they do come up with something new, But i would just like to point out that allot of people saying wow clone because of quest,raiding,instances,crafting being the same in some way this is because that isa why people play mmos it was all there before wow and will still be the same when wow and other mmos go because this is why we play them and it works. As time goes on new mmos will have new things and they will become the norm and people will be saying its a clone of that, But as far as this game is going grate sea of storyslines to follow and dive in to will make this the grate game it will be.
To be honest I am so sick of people calling this a WOW clone. Sure there are many similarities, but how many other MMO's are out there that break the same mold that WOW copied from EQ? There are few that have been succesful. To complain that a MMORPG follows the basic template of MMORPG's is like bitching about any FPS's trying to copy DOOM or WOLFENSTEIN.
Bioware seems to have done alot to bring their own flavor to the genre. Take for example the cutscenes. Adding actual story will help to connect to your charecter instead of the armor set, and will help to immerse you into the Star Wars world. Companion characters will be a huge change considering they do everything from fill in empty spots on instance runs, streamline crafting and gathering, and adding another depth to the choices you make in the story.
Hating on SWTOR because they chose a model type is like hating you as person because you have the same haircut as your neighbor. I'm not saying this is the "end all, be all" of all games because I havn't had a chance to play yet. That would be as ignorant as saying this is horrible game without seeing little more than a few videos.
Pray tell, which is more like the the other. SWToR is to WoW as GW2 is to WoW.
Simple and concise analogy that proves your statement false. If you cant see the massive similarityes between games like ToR and WoW and the massive differences of GW and WoW then your argument is moot!
It may benefit you to actually read a statement before trying to criticize it. At no point do I state there are no similarities between the 2. In fact I go on to say how they use the same basic model type. My issue is with the fact that because they use the same basic format it is considered a "knockoff". Using the same MMO style as WOW is the most logical step for Bioware to follow.
Look at all the features that they will be implementing in SWTOR and you will be able to find most of them utilized in previously successful games released by BW. The companion system definately has a feel of DA:origins, the dialog system from Mass Effect, and going heavy on the story which has been a focus point for Bioware since the start. As for the combat Bioware has had alot of success with this style with the Baldur's gate series and DA:origins. When taking on probably one of the top 10 largest projects in gaming history it only makes sense to stick with what you know.
As for GW2 I'm not sure why that was even brought up, it is a little off topic. But if we are going to discuss MMO's that break the mold that is fine we could discuss Tabula Rasa, APB or DCuniverse would that help your argument? I'm not saying that GW2 will go down that road, in fact I am excited about the game and am intending on buying it. My point is that a new style is not always going to mean a successful game. And yes there have been as many failed MMO's that use this same style that SWTOR has adopted, but that only shows that they made their choice on their own strengths and not trying to find a "sure bet".
But to reiterate my original point calling SWTOR a clone because of a format choice is like calling Battlefield 3 a Counter-Strike clone. So seeing as how I never once denied the similarities between the games this makes your own argument moot.
So I will add another item for the endgame fanbois to rage. Solo endgame. All of your companions can go with you for raids and dungeons. There is a solo endgame thread and it contains some of the most virulent 'hate' I have yet seen on these forums. It is not as if adding a 'solo endgame' will in any way intefere with the regular endgame play(ers), it just seems that they want to deny others having it.
So lets hear it for main/alts solo play with good grouping, good quests, solid guilds, interesting and effective crafting, companions, separate PvP zones or instances, good character immersion, regular and solo endgames with interesting and exciting updates and expansions. SWTOR looks pretty good to me and I will vote in the only poll that counts, my wallet poll.
What a completely awesome idea.
I would just like to amend it slightly by having it work as it does in Guild Wars 1, allowing you to mix and match Companions and Players as needed.
Most MMOs have an arbitrary (and very forced) player group size; in Guild Wars 2 players could co-op play and use Heroes to fill out the remainder of the group. I'd lobe to see SWTOR do something similar with some of its endgame content.
So I will add another item for the endgame fanbois to rage. Solo endgame. All of your companions can go with you for raids and dungeons. There is a solo endgame thread and it contains some of the most virulent 'hate' I have yet seen on these forums. It is not as if adding a 'solo endgame' will in any way intefere with the regular endgame play(ers), it just seems that they want to deny others having it.
So lets hear it for main/alts solo play with good grouping, good quests, solid guilds, interesting and effective crafting, companions, separate PvP zones or instances, good character immersion, regular and solo endgames with interesting and exciting updates and expansions. SWTOR looks pretty good to me and I will vote in the only poll that counts, my wallet poll.
What a completely awesome idea.
I would just like to amend it slightly by having it work as it does in Guild Wars 1, allowing you to mix and match Companions and Players as needed.
Most MMOs have an arbitrary (and very forced) player group size; in Guild Wars 2 players could co-op play and use Heroes to fill out the remainder of the group. I'd lobe to see SWTOR do something similar with some of its endgame content.
During E3 they actually talked about how this would be available in game. With flashpoints (instances) consisting of 4 man teams it will be possible to do a run with 2,3 or 4 human players with the empty slots being filled with companion characters. They are still working on balance issues in the beta as the companions aren't as powerful as actual playable characters of equal class. I also think Solo endgame content would be an awsome addition. something that you could run through with multiple companion characters would be great for continuing the immersion you have with your toon.
I would also love to see bonus rewards if playing through flashpoints or raids with only guild members. Along with the normal loot drops there could be items to add to a guild ship whether only cosmetic or even mild improvments such as better crafting areas or vendors or something. Even having guild credits earned for doing a flashpoint would be cool. This would add more for guilds without leaving solo players feeling left out.
Comments
I wonder that, too, but it can't be for the reason you claim, because if you'll notice it doesn't only happen to SW:TOR. Why, in fact, I think I've seen you somewhere! I wonder where.....
In the GW2 forums critisicing a game that I have a (losing) interest in?
But notice how I am not on every guild wars 2 forum on this site spamming the same crap over and over again about how I am not going to play the game and how much I think it sucks. I have seen this in every upcoming game, but for some reason TOR gets the worst of it.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I think its because people are stupid and are calling it a witch without any proof it is so. because they are afriad this game may be a success and appearently ignorantly calling it a fail or the same as every other endgame without any real cause to do so. but you cant cure stupid so let them flame over what they could possibly not know. it just shows how ignorant they are and makes them look bad.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
Pray tell, which is more like the the other. SWToR is to WoW as GW2 is to WoW.
Simple and concise analogy that proves your statement false. If you cant see the massive similarityes between games like ToR and WoW and the massive differences of GW and WoW then your argument is moot!
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I agree with you both. saying something so much trying to make is a common phrase the phrase eventually looses any validity so saying SWTOR is like WoW has pretty much lost all its validity in this thread do you no agree.
Games I will be playing are: TES V, SWTOR, ME 3, TSW
This isn't the SWTOR forum. It's the NEWS forum.
And I gave a very compelling reason why people might be upset about SW:TOR in particular. It's STAR WARS. A lot of people want to play a STAR WARS MMO, and there can only be one. If one fantasy game isn't to one's liking, one can go play another. If the only Star Wars MMO isn't to one's liking, what does one play? Does one wait another decade for Lucas Arts' license to run out and someone else be willing to put a couple hundred million into creating a different Star Wars MMO?
Edit: But this is all off-topic anyway. I merely sought to answer your (probably rhetorical) question. Contrary to what you may believe, people don't all have it out for SW:TOR.
Well, I think the problem is Greg you come from a WoW background so you analyse and compare every mmo on that yard-stick. Bioware have a longer pedigree in the RPG market than Blizzard, and the fact this is a space-tech mmo in the star wars universe should pretty distance itself from WoW. Given that you will probably have to spend a signifcant ammount of time going through a story filled journey to level cap and can't head in straight to a WoW gear tread mill I would have to write that your article is a weak one....why not evaluate SW:TOR on its own merits without having to fall back on your WoW perspective...it seems such a rigid and narrow outlook.
I belive theres that last thing about end game they didn't mention yet. They said it was never done in an mmo before. So if you are looking for something totally new, theres still a chance you will be pleasantly surprised.
"To be a rock and not to roll..."
So...what I got from reading this little musing was this:
"We don't really know anything, but we assume that it's going to be a lot like wow because, like, that's normal these days, right?"
Thats not true according to the information they released, supposedly dark, light and neutral will all give you different ability options not open to the other alignments.
i Hope that they do come up with something new, But i would just like to point out that allot of people saying wow clone because of quest,raiding,instances,crafting being the same in some way this is because that isa why people play mmos it was all there before wow and will still be the same when wow and other mmos go because this is why we play them and it works. As time goes on new mmos will have new things and they will become the norm and people will be saying its a clone of that, But as far as this game is going grate sea of storyslines to follow and dive in to will make this the grate game it will be.
It may benefit you to actually read a statement before trying to criticize it. At no point do I state there are no similarities between the 2. In fact I go on to say how they use the same basic model type. My issue is with the fact that because they use the same basic format it is considered a "knockoff". Using the same MMO style as WOW is the most logical step for Bioware to follow.
Look at all the features that they will be implementing in SWTOR and you will be able to find most of them utilized in previously successful games released by BW. The companion system definately has a feel of DA:origins, the dialog system from Mass Effect, and going heavy on the story which has been a focus point for Bioware since the start. As for the combat Bioware has had alot of success with this style with the Baldur's gate series and DA:origins. When taking on probably one of the top 10 largest projects in gaming history it only makes sense to stick with what you know.
As for GW2 I'm not sure why that was even brought up, it is a little off topic. But if we are going to discuss MMO's that break the mold that is fine we could discuss Tabula Rasa, APB or DCuniverse would that help your argument? I'm not saying that GW2 will go down that road, in fact I am excited about the game and am intending on buying it. My point is that a new style is not always going to mean a successful game. And yes there have been as many failed MMO's that use this same style that SWTOR has adopted, but that only shows that they made their choice on their own strengths and not trying to find a "sure bet".
But to reiterate my original point calling SWTOR a clone because of a format choice is like calling Battlefield 3 a Counter-Strike clone. So seeing as how I never once denied the similarities between the games this makes your own argument moot.
Millbarge from SWG? The dev?
What a completely awesome idea.
I would just like to amend it slightly by having it work as it does in Guild Wars 1, allowing you to mix and match Companions and Players as needed.
Most MMOs have an arbitrary (and very forced) player group size; in Guild Wars 2 players could co-op play and use Heroes to fill out the remainder of the group. I'd lobe to see SWTOR do something similar with some of its endgame content.
During E3 they actually talked about how this would be available in game. With flashpoints (instances) consisting of 4 man teams it will be possible to do a run with 2,3 or 4 human players with the empty slots being filled with companion characters. They are still working on balance issues in the beta as the companions aren't as powerful as actual playable characters of equal class. I also think Solo endgame content would be an awsome addition. something that you could run through with multiple companion characters would be great for continuing the immersion you have with your toon.
I would also love to see bonus rewards if playing through flashpoints or raids with only guild members. Along with the normal loot drops there could be items to add to a guild ship whether only cosmetic or even mild improvments such as better crafting areas or vendors or something. Even having guild credits earned for doing a flashpoint would be cool. This would add more for guilds without leaving solo players feeling left out.