I just saw the title and had a good laugh. Thanks. And here I thought that WoW killer was funny, SWTOR is going to have an impact on the genre, good or bad, but it's not going to save or stop anything.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
everyone of you are saying is TOR is gunna be the end all be all, or that GW2 is it. and there is a small group for ArchAge and the like. OP u, need to see that WoW was and is a fluke, and the only people to kill WoW would be blizzard themselves. The problem doesn't lay with who developed what mmo or how much hype it got. Your all basing that TOR or GW2 will be the shit but neither are out so no one knows.
TOR will not reach the success WoW did, that's impossible, WoW put the right combinations together and has a huge hit. TOR will get a moderate amount of subs. U all make it seem that if these games don't hit WoW's numbers its a failure which isn't tru before WoWs couple of mill subs. MMO were successful based on a few hundred thousand. It's not the genres fault that ever developing company puts shit tons of cash into their MMOs, they all think they have too.
what we need is a development company to say, listen, we aint got the time or resources to make a great polished MMO, but these are the features we have and this is what we have done. the problem lays with the developers thinking their shit don't stink when they tell us potental customers about all the neat and cool shit theyll have only to be told... yeah we kinda of didn't get around to it. but here take what we did do and see if u have fun oh let us coat that is the sweetest tasting hype ever.
the genre will fail when the last developer puts his/her head up their own ass then into the ground at launch.
we as players need to stand up against the mediocre crap and needs to start paying the developers who truely push the limits. stop giving ur money to the same game with a new paint job.
will TOR fail, no, will it succeed... depends on ur terms of success.
This idea that GW2 is going to save mmos, or do as well as wow is silly fanboy muttering.
GW2 will in no way cvompete with wow or TOR, it will not have as much content, as frequent updates, as much advertising, because it doesn't draw in as much money because it doesn't have a sub fee AND it isn't being put out by EA or Activision.
It doesn't matter if it is a better game, it doesn't matter if you come too mmorpg and tell people it's better, it doesn't have Star Wars in it's name, it doesn't have EA pushing it with the stated intention of competiting with WoW, it will do nothing for the genre as a whole.
And feel free to tell me how wrong i am, i will simply wait until it comes out and sells the same as Rift, and then drops off into a niche game.
1) GW2 does not compete with WoW or TOR but WoW and TOR compete with GW2. IF you don't know it maybe you should go to school. Many people have limited ammount of time and they will probably pick only one game even if they can afford 2. So in case when they choose GW2 TOR and WoW loses potential client, whereas GW2 only needs to sell game to be successful.
1b) Also your knowledge of economics is rock bottom. F2P model has higher potential of generating income than sub based games. The only conditions is that the game must be awesome and it has to be rightly implemented. You must live in a cave to think that just because something isn't sub based it won't make money. Ignorance at it's highest. Oh and it will have a lot more content than sub based MMOs but you'll see it yourself when the game comes.
2) Activision didn't put out WoW. It is entirely done by Blizzard without any interference from Activision. You are clueless.
3) Many people don't like Star Wars, i will pick GW2 universum any day of the week over Star Wars. Also EA is generally seen as "Crap" so that isn't an argument. On the other side GW2 is being published by NCSoft but you are too ignorant to even know what that is. Also ArenaNet is was made by 3 blizzard people where 1 - Jeff Strain - was lead programmer for WoW. Again, you are clueless.
4) Yes, you are wrong, so wrong that you cannot even imagine it. For the sake of saving your face you should really stop posting silly posts without any knowledge.
tl;dr
You are ignorant without any knowledge talking about stuff you have no idea about. You are wrong.
Nah this game wont fail because its star wars . Star wars galaxies didnt fail so there is no way this game could possibly fail.
As for Wow , most MMORPG were badly coded and poorly designed messes , WOW was written by people who knew how to program and they created a polished game that ran smoothly on most PC's .
I mean look at EQ 1 for example , it had a terrible UI compared to WOW .
You have a point,Star Wars already has billions of fans young and old who are already willing to buy the old republic.For me I'm definatly geting it,regardless what anybody says about it or tells me,becuase I have my own opinion and they have theres,simple as that
Someone is really trying to say that Star Wars isn't as popular as Guild Wars? Really? I never even heard of Guild Wars until I visited this site. Star Wars is well known across the world whereas I bet most people who don't visit this site or play mmos will have a farthing clue what Guild Wars is. Stop pretending like your little universe inside of your head is representtive of the majority.
This idea that GW2 is going to save mmos, or do as well as wow is silly fanboy muttering.
GW2 will in no way cvompete with wow or TOR, it will not have as much content, as frequent updates, as much advertising, because it doesn't draw in as much money because it doesn't have a sub fee AND it isn't being put out by EA or Activision.
It doesn't matter if it is a better game, it doesn't matter if you come too mmorpg and tell people it's better, it doesn't have Star Wars in it's name, it doesn't have EA pushing it with the stated intention of competiting with WoW, it will do nothing for the genre as a whole.
And feel free to tell me how wrong i am, i will simply wait until it comes out and sells the same as Rift, and then drops off into a niche game.
1) GW2 does not compete with WoW or TOR but WoW and TOR compete with GW2. IF you don't know it maybe you should go to school. Many people have limited ammount of time and they will probably pick only one game even if they can afford 2. So in case when they choose GW2 TOR and WoW loses potential client, whereas GW2 only needs to sell game to be successful.
1b) Also your knowledge of economics is rock bottom. F2P model has higher potential of generating income than sub based games. The only conditions is that the game must be awesome and it has to be rightly implemented. You must live in a cave to think that just because something isn't sub based it won't make money. Ignorance at it's highest. Oh and it will have a lot more content than sub based MMOs but you'll see it yourself when the game comes.
2) Activision didn't put out WoW. It is entirely done by Blizzard without any interference from Activision. You are clueless.
3) Many people don't like Star Wars, i will pick GW2 universum any day of the week over Star Wars. Also EA is generally seen as "Crap" so that isn't an argument. On the other side GW2 is being published by NCSoft but you are too ignorant to even know what that is. Also ArenaNet is was made by 3 blizzard people where 1 - Jeff Strain - was lead programmer for WoW. Again, you are clueless.
4) Yes, you are wrong, so wrong that you cannot even imagine it. For the sake of saving your face you should really stop posting silly posts without any knowledge.
tl;dr
You are ignorant without any knowledge talking about stuff you have no idea about. You are wrong.
nice can you tell my furture though this crystal ball here i beleave star wars been out longer then guild wars and fantasy = boring. and if you dont like the game i bet there millions do you not the only one i seen on the forms saying i know everything its going to suck when you never played it nice troll btw. and you cant say the game will fail because its like judging a person who you dont have any proof it will fail. if you dont like it i bet star wars has lots of fans then guild wars before it came out i know alot:P
Ohh how I giggle at people who boldly state SWOTOR will be a winner! GW2 will fail! The world is square!
SWOTOR shares a significant amount of its ideas with WoW, that is a fact that no one can argue with. But to those who believe GW2 is some golden messiah then please think again, for it to will still follow in the steps of WoW in a big way.
what is different about GW2 from WoW?
What is different about this that sets it aside from WoW?
The OP states that SWTOR is the last hope for MMOs. This is wrong. If SWTOR and GW2 both fail, (which let me tell you, they wont, they are both going to clean up large chunks of the market and WoW will begin its great decline.) then we will see a huge jump into the alternative styles, sandbox, and a mixture of the two. Planetside 2 is no doubt being watched closely by a significant number of people to gauge its interest and its release.
I am looking forward to SWTOR even though I am a sandboxer first. I am going to drink in story and RP where ever it might be, and I believe from the videos of story interaction and world design that I am going to find exactly what I am looking for.
everyone of you are saying is TOR is gunna be the end all be all, or that GW2 is it. and there is a small group for ArchAge and the like. OP u, need to see that WoW was and is a fluke, and the only people to kill WoW would be blizzard themselves. The problem doesn't lay with who developed what mmo or how much hype it got. Your all basing that TOR or GW2 will be the shit but neither are out so no one knows.
TOR will not reach the success WoW did, that's impossible, WoW put the right combinations together and has a huge hit. TOR will get a moderate amount of subs. U all make it seem that if these games don't hit WoW's numbers its a failure which isn't tru before WoWs couple of mill subs. MMO were successful based on a few hundred thousand. It's not the genres fault that ever developing company puts shit tons of cash into their MMOs, they all think they have too.
what we need is a development company to say, listen, we aint got the time or resources to make a great polished MMO, but these are the features we have and this is what we have done. the problem lays with the developers thinking their shit don't stink when they tell us potental customers about all the neat and cool shit theyll have only to be told... yeah we kinda of didn't get around to it. but here take what we did do and see if u have fun oh let us coat that is the sweetest tasting hype ever.
the genre will fail when the last developer puts his/her head up their own ass then into the ground at launch.
we as players need to stand up against the mediocre crap and needs to start paying the developers who truely push the limits. stop giving ur money to the same game with a new paint job.
will TOR fail, no, will it succeed... depends on ur terms of success.
Isn't that along the lines of what Cryptic has tried to do with Star Trek Online? Only to have the players rage that they are paying a sub and the game shouldn't be launching as a framework with player-driven ongoing development. Then they added the foundry so that the creative members of the community could author their own stories and missions. Only to have more rage that the players shouldn't have to pay a sub fee to do the developers jobs for them.
I think anytime a genre becomes more mainstream its just met with prophecies of doom and gloom because being contrarian on the internet is the height of intellectual achievement.
This idea that GW2 is going to save mmos, or do as well as wow is silly fanboy muttering.
GW2 will in no way cvompete with wow or TOR, it will not have as much content, as frequent updates, as much advertising, because it doesn't draw in as much money because it doesn't have a sub fee AND it isn't being put out by EA or Activision.
It doesn't matter if it is a better game, it doesn't matter if you come too mmorpg and tell people it's better, it doesn't have Star Wars in it's name, it doesn't have EA pushing it with the stated intention of competiting with WoW, it will do nothing for the genre as a whole.
And feel free to tell me how wrong i am, i will simply wait until it comes out and sells the same as Rift, and then drops off into a niche game.
1) GW2 does not compete with WoW or TOR but WoW and TOR compete with GW2. IF you don't know it maybe you should go to school. Many people have limited ammount of time and they will probably pick only one game even if they can afford 2. So in case when they choose GW2 TOR and WoW loses potential client, whereas GW2 only needs to sell game to be successful.
1b) Also your knowledge of economics is rock bottom. F2P model has higher potential of generating income than sub based games. The only conditions is that the game must be awesome and it has to be rightly implemented. You must live in a cave to think that just because something isn't sub based it won't make money. Ignorance at it's highest. Oh and it will have a lot more content than sub based MMOs but you'll see it yourself when the game comes.
2) Activision didn't put out WoW. It is entirely done by Blizzard without any interference from Activision. You are clueless.
3) Many people don't like Star Wars, i will pick GW2 universum any day of the week over Star Wars. Also EA is generally seen as "Crap" so that isn't an argument. On the other side GW2 is being published by NCSoft but you are too ignorant to even know what that is. Also ArenaNet is was made by 3 blizzard people where 1 - Jeff Strain - was lead programmer for WoW. Again, you are clueless.
4) Yes, you are wrong, so wrong that you cannot even imagine it. For the sake of saving your face you should really stop posting silly posts without any knowledge.
tl;dr
You are ignorant without any knowledge talking about stuff you have no idea about. You are wrong.
The mmos gets old fast and have a best before date ,
No it hasent....
The games we once liked gets replaced by hopes of a eaven better MMO, and we wait and we wait and up comes the new game
that doesnt give you the same sadisfaction as prewius games you played nor does it give you back the fealing the game had.
Try go back to an older game, and get it out of your system that its old , dont be in such a rush play a game and wait for the next one to come, try the new one and maby go back to the old one if the new one was boorning or dident apeal.
First of all I dont think swtor will fail, its too well known of an ip and the company behind it is very respected for their games. only bad side is EA and I hope even they are smart enough to let bioware do their thing.
I wont be playing it though because it is just another themepark gear gring but im sure many will be playing it for that reason. If it somehow manages to fail, and by fail I mean not even make enough money to turn a profit not fail to live up to some peoples expectations it wont kill the genre, it might kill the overbudgeted themepark quest grind mmos at least until wow turns off the servers but it wont kill the mmorpg genre.
Gw 2 wont fail, its got a better business model in buy 2 play with no sub fee. i never could really get into guild wars because of the instancing but i got high hopes for gw2 being a great game. this game i will play because it has no sub fee as long as they stick to that same business model.
If gw2 somehow manages to fail it still wont kill the mmo industry, it might kill arenanet but it wont kill the industry.
the secret world and all the other mmos coming out if they fail it still wont kill the industry, it might make developers change how they make games and make them decide to put out a quality game and maybe listen to the mmo playerbase instead of putting out what they want and try to force it down our throats.
tor wont fail, gw 2 wont fail, tsw wont fail, world of darkness, might fail simply because of the recent blackeye ccp games has gotten but i still dont think it will fail. if all these games somehow still fail the only thing we will see is different ways to make mmorpgs. this is still a huge market and the potential to make money is still there, developers need to develop a new type of game that is neither sandbox or themepark but a hybrid of the two.
This idea that GW2 is going to save mmos, or do as well as wow is silly fanboy muttering.
GW2 will in no way cvompete with wow or TOR, it will not have as much content, as frequent updates, as much advertising, because it doesn't draw in as much money because it doesn't have a sub fee AND it isn't being put out by EA or Activision.
It doesn't matter if it is a better game, it doesn't matter if you come too mmorpg and tell people it's better, it doesn't have Star Wars in it's name, it doesn't have EA pushing it with the stated intention of competiting with WoW, it will do nothing for the genre as a whole.
And feel free to tell me how wrong i am, i will simply wait until it comes out and sells the same as Rift, and then drops off into a niche game.
1) GW2 does not compete with WoW or TOR but WoW and TOR compete with GW2. IF you don't know it maybe you should go to school. Many people have limited ammount of time and they will probably pick only one game even if they can afford 2. So in case when they choose GW2 TOR and WoW loses potential client, whereas GW2 only needs to sell game to be successful.
1b) Also your knowledge of economics is rock bottom. F2P model has higher potential of generating income than sub based games. The only conditions is that the game must be awesome and it has to be rightly implemented. You must live in a cave to think that just because something isn't sub based it won't make money. Ignorance at it's highest. Oh and it will have a lot more content than sub based MMOs but you'll see it yourself when the game comes.
2) Activision didn't put out WoW. It is entirely done by Blizzard without any interference from Activision. You are clueless.
3) Many people don't like Star Wars, i will pick GW2 universum any day of the week over Star Wars. Also EA is generally seen as "Crap" so that isn't an argument. On the other side GW2 is being published by NCSoft but you are too ignorant to even know what that is. Also ArenaNet is was made by 3 blizzard people where 1 - Jeff Strain - was lead programmer for WoW. Again, you are clueless.
4) Yes, you are wrong, so wrong that you cannot even imagine it. For the sake of saving your face you should really stop posting silly posts without any knowledge.
tl;dr
You are ignorant without any knowledge talking about stuff you have no idea about. You are wrong.
lol, oh the irony
*facepalm*
And why is that ?
Reread your post and think deeply about it. If you still don't understand, copy and paste your post in a Word document and save it, so when you're older and wiser, you can reread it and then you'll get the irony.
WoW did just one thing, it showed everyone that an insane amount of money can be made with this type of game. There are plenty of single player games that don't as much money during their life as WoW makes in a single month.
And where there is money to be made, there ALWAYS will be new people trying their luck. EA and Bioware are funding this hoping to get a big pile of cash in return. You got to remember that AoC sold a MILLION copies. 1 million boxes. That is a HUGE result. Sure it bombed later on but it still shows the market is out there punters are willing to pay. Hell, SWTOR hasn't been reviewed by anyone reliable yet and how many here already ordered the CE edition? Were willing to kill or at least force choke for a copy?
A failure of SWTOR will no more discourage new players then the failure of almost every other MMO out there discouraged anyone.
A bit of a fatalist. I think the OP needs to take a look around. MMO's have become a profitable medium which means that they will be exploited by big companies for the foreseeable future. This is how it works:
Someone takes a chance (UO or Sony's EQ) and they create something.
Indies explore the forumla and experiment.
A large CO. combines the formulas from indies for a new "Super Game" and it becomes a hit.
Companies finally turn a profit.
The forumla is continually experimented upon by indies once again.
Companies wait to combine "new" forumlas for another "super game."
That is how the market works. Yes, Walmart will always pounce and incoporate (some say steal) new game mechanics but that is part of the market. Sometimes even they will have a breakthrough idea...but honestly it is up to you the customer to find a game (and company) that matches your idea. It will take years in some cases. But the timeline is moving (evolving) and sooner or later you'll find the game that has the right variables for you. It's never going to just end.
This idea that GW2 is going to save mmos, or do as well as wow is silly fanboy muttering.
GW2 will in no way cvompete with wow or TOR, it will not have as much content, as frequent updates, as much advertising, because it doesn't draw in as much money because it doesn't have a sub fee AND it isn't being put out by EA or Activision.
It doesn't matter if it is a better game, it doesn't matter if you come too mmorpg and tell people it's better, it doesn't have Star Wars in it's name, it doesn't have EA pushing it with the stated intention of competiting with WoW, it will do nothing for the genre as a whole.
And feel free to tell me how wrong i am, i will simply wait until it comes out and sells the same as Rift, and then drops off into a niche game.
1) GW2 does not compete with WoW or TOR but WoW and TOR compete with GW2. IF you don't know it maybe you should go to school. Many people have limited ammount of time and they will probably pick only one game even if they can afford 2. So in case when they choose GW2 TOR and WoW loses potential client, whereas GW2 only needs to sell game to be successful.
1b) Also your knowledge of economics is rock bottom. F2P model has higher potential of generating income than sub based games. The only conditions is that the game must be awesome and it has to be rightly implemented. You must live in a cave to think that just because something isn't sub based it won't make money. Ignorance at it's highest. Oh and it will have a lot more content than sub based MMOs but you'll see it yourself when the game comes.
2) Activision didn't put out WoW. It is entirely done by Blizzard without any interference from Activision. You are clueless.
3) Many people don't like Star Wars, i will pick GW2 universum any day of the week over Star Wars. Also EA is generally seen as "Crap" so that isn't an argument. On the other side GW2 is being published by NCSoft but you are too ignorant to even know what that is. Also ArenaNet is was made by 3 blizzard people where 1 - Jeff Strain - was lead programmer for WoW. Again, you are clueless.
4) Yes, you are wrong, so wrong that you cannot even imagine it. For the sake of saving your face you should really stop posting silly posts without any knowledge.
tl;dr
You are ignorant without any knowledge talking about stuff you have no idea about. You are wrong.
lol, oh the irony
1. GW2 will in fact compete for the same customer base on the same basis as GW1 does just now, Many GW1 players do not play WOW, but possibly may have done if they didnt play GW.
1b agree, F2p and Sub are just different models, if you pay the same amount every month and the game isnt broken as a result of the model then it is irrelevant.
2. Oh you are wrong there (I wont say ignorant :P), you need to research the history of WOW, look around the middle of TBC where things started to change.
3. Good players dont care who published a game, is it good is the only consideration. A publisher may indficate future issues but you are not going to not play a good game based on the publisher. You may stop whn it goes bad if you are not stupid though.
4. ..
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Ok I’m at work so I’m a try to explain this little better, or at least lay it out better then I did in the OP.
I don’t care about the game’s specificity; this thread isn’t about content, graphics, interface – That’s irrelevant.
It’s also irrelevant as to why this game or any game may or may not fail/succeed; I am speaking purely in speculation when I say “IF” it does.
That’s why I use the word “IF” I’m not predicting if it will or will not fail, simply speculating on the economical outcome if the game goes down the path of a financial disaster many games have gone down.
The hype isn’t relevant either as historical data has shown as unprecedented hype doesn’t always translate to a financially successful game, and none-existent hype doesn’t always translate to a financially devastating game (Speaking purely as to the bottom line of a game, relative to the company’s whole revenue stream).
Supply and demand dictates market direction, which is the basic rule of economics, the demand for quality MMORPGS prior to the WoW-Splash, relative to current market demands were rather small, but had a bullish trend that climaxed 2-3 years post the WoW-Splash.
Like –ANY- market that has been opened up by innovation or at least innovate marketing companies seek to piggy-back off that business model, this has been seen by mainstreaming –ANY- market, consider the influx/flood of products that attempted to mimic Apple with their iPhone, or iPad? Hundreds (there are even FAKE APPLE STORES! Google it),
Consider the iPhone, to be WoW in this example, and the Android be SWTORO – the iPhone was out for years, and enjoyed an equal dominance of the Smart-Phone industry, much like WoW currently does with the MMORPG Market, then came the Droid which mainstreamed the Android software pushing back Apple with their first true competitor… before the Android there were lots of iPhone-Clones.
Same thing here speaking strictly to the innovation of the MMORPG, it’s market, it’s direction, projected direction.
There are 1.3 million member on MMORPG.com – I can not account for how many are unique accounts, and how many are duplicates, or how many are active, so my guess is that the number of actual active, educated, invested players who surf this site for various reason is MUCH MUCH MUCH lower, I’d estimate maybe 500k at an educated best case guess, and even if 500,000 people disagreed with the notion I aspired to present in the OP that is a small % of the total consumer-base that makes of the market.
So the notion of “Who cares if SWTORO Fails, GW2 will be the savior of the MMO” is absolutely ridiculous.
I’ve played enough MMO’s been apart of more gaming communities then just this website, I’ve written for the Tampa Bay Examiner with a sub-set focus on the MMORPG market, and this is the only community where there is a “fairily” high hype for GW2.
- Like I said, GW2 has hype, but hype doesn’t translate to a financially successful game, we can not predicate if SWTORO, or GW2 is going to be financially successful all we can do is speculate on their failures or success, and on how to they will affect the budgets of future titles.
If you can not understand that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Furthermore, if you are refusing to understand this thread isn’t about which title is better, which has better features, which title is a WoW-Clone, who made WoW, ect, then you are trolling.
It’s ABOUT the financial outcome of a market that has been saturated with financially unsuccessful titles, backed by companies that have sought to duplicate the financial success of WoW (Relative to their own projected revenue).
More then developing company has been purchased due to financial troubles created by a failed title, or gone bankrupt altogether.
If I was the CEO of a budding gaming company that was looking for that “Big break” I wouldn’t be doing it in an unpredictable fickle market like the MMORPG market.
The question is, if an attractive investment like SWTORO fails, how many directors, executives, lead designers will start backing away, and consider the financial success of WoW to be unachievable under current market conditions?
When you think about it, the game will only succeed or fail by our hands. It fails if we dont purchase it or play it for a certain amount of time. It also fails if we dont give feedback to the dev's on what we see is wrong or that is missing or needs changing.... the game is only as good as the players make it, and lets not forget that the devs are players themselves. They want this to succeed just as much as we do, their job depends on it. There isnt going to be a game to come out that is going to be a WoW killer, but there will be games that take us in a new direction and if that direction is accepted by us masses then it will be the so called king of MMO's for that genre of gaming. I do how TOR and GW2 will bring what we gamers have been longing for for these past couple of years.
A bit of a fatalist. I think the OP needs to take a look around. MMO's have become a profitable medium which means that they will be exploited by big companies for the foreseeable future. This is how it works:
Someone takes a chance (UO or Sony's EQ) and they create something.
Indies explore the forumla and experiment.
A large CO. combines the formulas from indies for a new "Super Game" and it becomes a hit.
Companies finally turn a profit.
The forumla is continually experimented upon by indies once again.
Companies wait to combine "new" forumlas for another "super game."
That is how the market works. Yes, Walmart will always pounce and incoporate (some say steal) new game mechanics but that is part of the market. Sometimes even they will have a breakthrough idea...but honestly it is up to you the customer to find a game (and company) that matches your idea. It will take years in some cases. But the timeline is moving (evolving) and sooner or later you'll find the game that has the right variables for you. It's never going to just end.
Thanks for responding (and disagreeing :P) towards the targeted subject of the thread.
I will however have to point out something in your cycle, the reason for this thread :
-------------------------
Someone takes a chance (UO or Sony's EQ) and they create something.
Indies explore the forumla and experiment.
A large CO. combines the formulas from indies for a new "Super Game" and it becomes a hit.
Companies finally turn a profit.
The forumla is continually experimented upon by indies once again.
Companies wait to combine "new" forumlas for another "super game." -- What do you suppose the next step would be if, a company couldn't combine the forumlas (Or if they did, and it became a finanical disaster), there has been no new "Super game". Step 3/4 on your list here is the last thing to actually have happened according to market growth.
Comments
I just saw the title and had a good laugh. Thanks. And here I thought that WoW killer was funny, SWTOR is going to have an impact on the genre, good or bad, but it's not going to save or stop anything.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
i personaly love all of this hype wars.
everyone of you are saying is TOR is gunna be the end all be all, or that GW2 is it. and there is a small group for ArchAge and the like. OP u, need to see that WoW was and is a fluke, and the only people to kill WoW would be blizzard themselves. The problem doesn't lay with who developed what mmo or how much hype it got. Your all basing that TOR or GW2 will be the shit but neither are out so no one knows.
TOR will not reach the success WoW did, that's impossible, WoW put the right combinations together and has a huge hit. TOR will get a moderate amount of subs. U all make it seem that if these games don't hit WoW's numbers its a failure which isn't tru before WoWs couple of mill subs. MMO were successful based on a few hundred thousand. It's not the genres fault that ever developing company puts shit tons of cash into their MMOs, they all think they have too.
what we need is a development company to say, listen, we aint got the time or resources to make a great polished MMO, but these are the features we have and this is what we have done. the problem lays with the developers thinking their shit don't stink when they tell us potental customers about all the neat and cool shit theyll have only to be told... yeah we kinda of didn't get around to it. but here take what we did do and see if u have fun oh let us coat that is the sweetest tasting hype ever.
the genre will fail when the last developer puts his/her head up their own ass then into the ground at launch.
we as players need to stand up against the mediocre crap and needs to start paying the developers who truely push the limits. stop giving ur money to the same game with a new paint job.
will TOR fail, no, will it succeed... depends on ur terms of success.
SWOR will fail
gw2 will succeed
That game was our last hope.. No there is another...
lol, oh the irony
If OP would play Rift would not say such nonsense.
Nah this game wont fail because its star wars . Star wars galaxies didnt fail so there is no way this game could possibly fail.
As for Wow , most MMORPG were badly coded and poorly designed messes , WOW was written by people who knew how to program and they created a polished game that ran smoothly on most PC's .
I mean look at EQ 1 for example , it had a terrible UI compared to WOW .
You have a point,Star Wars already has billions of fans young and old who are already willing to buy the old republic.For me I'm definatly geting it,regardless what anybody says about it or tells me,becuase I have my own opinion and they have theres,simple as that
Your imagination is as big as the universe
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
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nice can you tell my furture though this crystal ball here i beleave star wars been out longer then guild wars and fantasy = boring. and if you dont like the game i bet there millions do you not the only one i seen on the forms saying i know everything its going to suck when you never played it
nice troll btw. and you cant say the game will fail because its like judging a person who you dont have any proof it will fail. if you dont like it i bet star wars has lots of fans then guild wars before it came out i know alot:P
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Ohh how I giggle at people who boldly state SWOTOR will be a winner! GW2 will fail! The world is square!
SWOTOR shares a significant amount of its ideas with WoW, that is a fact that no one can argue with. But to those who believe GW2 is some golden messiah then please think again, for it to will still follow in the steps of WoW in a big way.
The OP states that SWTOR is the last hope for MMOs. This is wrong. If SWTOR and GW2 both fail, (which let me tell you, they wont, they are both going to clean up large chunks of the market and WoW will begin its great decline.) then we will see a huge jump into the alternative styles, sandbox, and a mixture of the two. Planetside 2 is no doubt being watched closely by a significant number of people to gauge its interest and its release.
I am looking forward to SWTOR even though I am a sandboxer first. I am going to drink in story and RP where ever it might be, and I believe from the videos of story interaction and world design that I am going to find exactly what I am looking for.
Isn't that along the lines of what Cryptic has tried to do with Star Trek Online? Only to have the players rage that they are paying a sub and the game shouldn't be launching as a framework with player-driven ongoing development. Then they added the foundry so that the creative members of the community could author their own stories and missions. Only to have more rage that the players shouldn't have to pay a sub fee to do the developers jobs for them.
I think anytime a genre becomes more mainstream its just met with prophecies of doom and gloom because being contrarian on the internet is the height of intellectual achievement.
Very good one lol
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I see what you did there
*facepalm*
And why is that ?
The mmos gets old fast and have a best before date ,
No it hasent....
The games we once liked gets replaced by hopes of a eaven better MMO, and we wait and we wait and up comes the new game
that doesnt give you the same sadisfaction as prewius games you played nor does it give you back the fealing the game had.
Try go back to an older game, and get it out of your system that its old , dont be in such a rush play a game and wait for the next one to come, try the new one and maby go back to the old one if the new one was boorning or dident apeal.
Me for instance got back and played Lineage 2.
To be unhyped is the new hype.
System Specc
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16Gb RAM 1600 mhz
Nvidia GTX 780
First of all I dont think swtor will fail, its too well known of an ip and the company behind it is very respected for their games. only bad side is EA and I hope even they are smart enough to let bioware do their thing.
I wont be playing it though because it is just another themepark gear gring but im sure many will be playing it for that reason. If it somehow manages to fail, and by fail I mean not even make enough money to turn a profit not fail to live up to some peoples expectations it wont kill the genre, it might kill the overbudgeted themepark quest grind mmos at least until wow turns off the servers but it wont kill the mmorpg genre.
Gw 2 wont fail, its got a better business model in buy 2 play with no sub fee. i never could really get into guild wars because of the instancing but i got high hopes for gw2 being a great game. this game i will play because it has no sub fee as long as they stick to that same business model.
If gw2 somehow manages to fail it still wont kill the mmo industry, it might kill arenanet but it wont kill the industry.
the secret world and all the other mmos coming out if they fail it still wont kill the industry, it might make developers change how they make games and make them decide to put out a quality game and maybe listen to the mmo playerbase instead of putting out what they want and try to force it down our throats.
tor wont fail, gw 2 wont fail, tsw wont fail, world of darkness, might fail simply because of the recent blackeye ccp games has gotten but i still dont think it will fail. if all these games somehow still fail the only thing we will see is different ways to make mmorpgs. this is still a huge market and the potential to make money is still there, developers need to develop a new type of game that is neither sandbox or themepark but a hybrid of the two.
Reread your post and think deeply about it. If you still don't understand, copy and paste your post in a Word document and save it, so when you're older and wiser, you can reread it and then you'll get the irony.
WoW did just one thing, it showed everyone that an insane amount of money can be made with this type of game. There are plenty of single player games that don't as much money during their life as WoW makes in a single month.
And where there is money to be made, there ALWAYS will be new people trying their luck. EA and Bioware are funding this hoping to get a big pile of cash in return. You got to remember that AoC sold a MILLION copies. 1 million boxes. That is a HUGE result. Sure it bombed later on but it still shows the market is out there punters are willing to pay. Hell, SWTOR hasn't been reviewed by anyone reliable yet and how many here already ordered the CE edition? Were willing to kill or at least force choke for a copy?
A failure of SWTOR will no more discourage new players then the failure of almost every other MMO out there discouraged anyone.
A bit of a fatalist. I think the OP needs to take a look around. MMO's have become a profitable medium which means that they will be exploited by big companies for the foreseeable future. This is how it works:
Someone takes a chance (UO or Sony's EQ) and they create something.
Indies explore the forumla and experiment.
A large CO. combines the formulas from indies for a new "Super Game" and it becomes a hit.
Companies finally turn a profit.
The forumla is continually experimented upon by indies once again.
Companies wait to combine "new" forumlas for another "super game."
That is how the market works. Yes, Walmart will always pounce and incoporate (some say steal) new game mechanics but that is part of the market. Sometimes even they will have a breakthrough idea...but honestly it is up to you the customer to find a game (and company) that matches your idea. It will take years in some cases. But the timeline is moving (evolving) and sooner or later you'll find the game that has the right variables for you. It's never going to just end.
1. GW2 will in fact compete for the same customer base on the same basis as GW1 does just now, Many GW1 players do not play WOW, but possibly may have done if they didnt play GW.
1b agree, F2p and Sub are just different models, if you pay the same amount every month and the game isnt broken as a result of the model then it is irrelevant.
2. Oh you are wrong there (I wont say ignorant :P), you need to research the history of WOW, look around the middle of TBC where things started to change.
3. Good players dont care who published a game, is it good is the only consideration. A publisher may indficate future issues but you are not going to not play a good game based on the publisher. You may stop whn it goes bad if you are not stupid though.
4. ..
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
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Ok I’m at work so I’m a try to explain this little better, or at least lay it out better then I did in the OP.
I don’t care about the game’s specificity; this thread isn’t about content, graphics, interface – That’s irrelevant.
It’s also irrelevant as to why this game or any game may or may not fail/succeed; I am speaking purely in speculation when I say “IF” it does.
That’s why I use the word “IF” I’m not predicting if it will or will not fail, simply speculating on the economical outcome if the game goes down the path of a financial disaster many games have gone down.
The hype isn’t relevant either as historical data has shown as unprecedented hype doesn’t always translate to a financially successful game, and none-existent hype doesn’t always translate to a financially devastating game (Speaking purely as to the bottom line of a game, relative to the company’s whole revenue stream).
Supply and demand dictates market direction, which is the basic rule of economics, the demand for quality MMORPGS prior to the WoW-Splash, relative to current market demands were rather small, but had a bullish trend that climaxed 2-3 years post the WoW-Splash.
Like –ANY- market that has been opened up by innovation or at least innovate marketing companies seek to piggy-back off that business model, this has been seen by mainstreaming –ANY- market, consider the influx/flood of products that attempted to mimic Apple with their iPhone, or iPad? Hundreds (there are even FAKE APPLE STORES! Google it),
Consider the iPhone, to be WoW in this example, and the Android be SWTORO – the iPhone was out for years, and enjoyed an equal dominance of the Smart-Phone industry, much like WoW currently does with the MMORPG Market, then came the Droid which mainstreamed the Android software pushing back Apple with their first true competitor… before the Android there were lots of iPhone-Clones.
Same thing here speaking strictly to the innovation of the MMORPG, it’s market, it’s direction, projected direction.
There are 1.3 million member on MMORPG.com – I can not account for how many are unique accounts, and how many are duplicates, or how many are active, so my guess is that the number of actual active, educated, invested players who surf this site for various reason is MUCH MUCH MUCH lower, I’d estimate maybe 500k at an educated best case guess, and even if 500,000 people disagreed with the notion I aspired to present in the OP that is a small % of the total consumer-base that makes of the market.
So the notion of “Who cares if SWTORO Fails, GW2 will be the savior of the MMO” is absolutely ridiculous.
I’ve played enough MMO’s been apart of more gaming communities then just this website, I’ve written for the Tampa Bay Examiner with a sub-set focus on the MMORPG market, and this is the only community where there is a “fairily” high hype for GW2.
- Like I said, GW2 has hype, but hype doesn’t translate to a financially successful game, we can not predicate if SWTORO, or GW2 is going to be financially successful all we can do is speculate on their failures or success, and on how to they will affect the budgets of future titles.
If you can not understand that, I don’t know what to tell you.
Furthermore, if you are refusing to understand this thread isn’t about which title is better, which has better features, which title is a WoW-Clone, who made WoW, ect, then you are trolling.
It’s ABOUT the financial outcome of a market that has been saturated with financially unsuccessful titles, backed by companies that have sought to duplicate the financial success of WoW (Relative to their own projected revenue).
More then developing company has been purchased due to financial troubles created by a failed title, or gone bankrupt altogether.
If I was the CEO of a budding gaming company that was looking for that “Big break” I wouldn’t be doing it in an unpredictable fickle market like the MMORPG market.
The question is, if an attractive investment like SWTORO fails, how many directors, executives, lead designers will start backing away, and consider the financial success of WoW to be unachievable under current market conditions?
When you think about it, the game will only succeed or fail by our hands. It fails if we dont purchase it or play it for a certain amount of time. It also fails if we dont give feedback to the dev's on what we see is wrong or that is missing or needs changing.... the game is only as good as the players make it, and lets not forget that the devs are players themselves. They want this to succeed just as much as we do, their job depends on it. There isnt going to be a game to come out that is going to be a WoW killer, but there will be games that take us in a new direction and if that direction is accepted by us masses then it will be the so called king of MMO's for that genre of gaming. I do how TOR and GW2 will bring what we gamers have been longing for for these past couple of years.
Goouie
Thanks for responding (and disagreeing :P) towards the targeted subject of the thread.
I will however have to point out something in your cycle, the reason for this thread :
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Someone takes a chance (UO or Sony's EQ) and they create something.
Indies explore the forumla and experiment.
A large CO. combines the formulas from indies for a new "Super Game" and it becomes a hit.
Companies finally turn a profit.
The forumla is continually experimented upon by indies once again.
Companies wait to combine "new" forumlas for another "super game." -- What do you suppose the next step would be if, a company couldn't combine the forumlas (Or if they did, and it became a finanical disaster), there has been no new "Super game". Step 3/4 on your list here is the last thing to actually have happened according to market growth.
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