One game no matter the IP nor how much hype, or money spent on it will matter much.
Certainly will not be the end of MMORPGS, MMO's or anything else.
The writing was on the wall way back in the days of UO. When they sold out to a bigger Corp. that set the way the rest of this was going to go.
What we have here with SWTOR is, frankly one of the odd balls. They have basically shot themselves in the foot before the race was even started. They have spent so much money there is no way they will ever be able to be more than that, the odd man out now.
The standard, do just enough to make your money back and a bit more for the publisher is the norm, and will continue to be the norm for quite a while in this business.
And yes, WOW was and is a fluke. Anyone that expects another WOW is going to wait for a long, long, time.
Suddenly its a good thing if this game fails cause lets see:
+ Bioware sold out to a company known for crap
+ one if not the biggest I P
+ hype, hype and hype
so if this game fails it will show other developers that quality still matters and not some IP , selling out to the devil or marketing stuff.
The MMORPG genre itself doesn't need all those stupid investors thinking they can buy studios, add a huge IP and are done thats not gonna work any longer (glad). It has yet to be seen if this game has more to offer than the same old just with voice and oh did I mention story?
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I’m not sure if this issue has been addressed, so I’m a throw a line into this lake of thought, and see what it reels in.
On a wide-spread acceptance level, WoW is the only real MMO universally accepted by the bulk of the industry, whether it be consumers, (Casual/Hardcore, PvP/PvE), Critics, Elitists, Haters, Fanboys, ect –
It has become the standard, to many’s dismay – it brought the genre out of a closet that only the most revered of us nerds knew of, to a game that even the most prominent members of society par-take in endless hours of play.
Has anyone asked the really, really.. really… hard question?
What if that was a fluke?
I have been fan of this genre longer then most, my first MMO being EQ back in the last 90s.
I was hyped for WoW mostly for one reason, I played the Warcraft IP RTS games and the notion of being the unit on the ground that I once controlled hundreds of, and visiting places I wage an epic war about was intriguing, so I followed the game’s development closely – I remember reading the articles, the reviews, the critics, the haters, the flamers, the fans, the testers, the developers, I soaked it all in like a sponge.. I was hyped.
The game was an epic success…
Since then there has only been one game to show the same pre-launch pattern, SWTORO, what I’ve been reading, from hype (whether it be empty or legit), to those who have played it and shared their thoughts, reviews, everything it reminds be of the atmosphere that existed prior to WoWs launch. It makes me giddy, hopeful, and most of all concerned for the future of the MMORPG as a Genre.
This game has all the right conditions for a perfect MMO Storm (Like WoW before it), the recipe matches… everything.. the hype, the potential, even what issues the haters are trolling about.. it’s all in the right spot for a success…so…WHAT IF IT FAILS TOO?
Then that’s it… I think that developers are going to abandon the MMORPG, maybe not all at once or in a whole, but.. lets face a few facts :
Recipe for Success (MMORPG)
Take 1 well established franchise (Warcraft, Star Wars) \ Star Wars being the most famous of IPs in the civilized markets
Add marketable game design marinated with superfluous hype, and hate balance.
Add a reputable gaming company (Blizzard, BioWare), BioWare being arguably one of the best RPG producing company.
Mix in a large production, and marketing budget ( 63M for WoW \ 80M [Maybe more?])
Add all the ingredients, and bake til the market is desperately begging for a decent MMO.
Serve at a reasonable price, best kept updated – Makes 1-20 million servings.
So if the recipe for success produces failure, then one must conclude that the MMORPG as a dish is no longer a dish people want to eat….
This is the last chance for the MMORPG to prove that WoW wasn’t a fluke, that the market is still a viable mechanism in today’s entertainment industry, we are dangerously close to becoming a closent genre again, let’s not become the Sim Genre of the next millennium.
Some of you people really crack me up. Your opinion is just that. It's your little pool of thought. I am currently playing Warcraft and Eq2. Do you realize there are Eq2 players that have never ever played WoW? A lot of the older folks that I play with went from Eq1 to 2 and have never played any other games. To them, what does it matter what the "bulk" of the industry cares about?
Just because a game is not as widely popular as WoW, it doesn't mean that game doesn't have an audiance or is not making money. Don't forget that a game like eq2 has been running a few weeks before Wow and is currently still running and making money. If TOR fails, it will not affect anything except the people that played it. Life will go on, gaming will go on and most importantly, MMO's will be just fine. It really doesn't matter. There are still devoted fans playing UO for christ sakes. You think they give a shit if TOR fails? Let's all stop being so damn dramatic and just play games.
And what if WoW was a "fluke"... really?....really? I fluke doesn't last for 7 years. A The definition of "fluke" is an accidental occurrence or a stroke of good luck. You really can't call a game with WoW's massive success and run time a stroke of good luck. That would be like working your ass off in schooling, landing a great job and making a good living for 7 years and calling it an "accidental occurrence". WoW is a sucess do to the hard work of Blizzard. Lets give some credit were credit is due. Even if you hate the game, you can't say the company hasn't done a good job.
OP can you define what you consider fail to me? I see some generalizations in there and references to WoW, so I am a tad confused.
If by fail you mean 90% unsubs like FF14 I doubt it or shut it down APB style and have to re release umm doubt it.
If fail you mean Aion where it is released and then largely ignored and not updated, then I doubt it because EA is seeing dollar signs in their eyes and plan to make serious bank of SWToR as already demonstrated.
If fail you mean WAR/TERA/STO and it releases too early and it is very buggy and constantly crashes, then I can not tell you until it actually releases.
If fail by expecting it to eclipse 12 millions subs on launch date like people expect Rift to do then ummm NO. Whoever in their right mind considers Rift a failure needs to get their head check. It is a game with 2 months worth of hype and close to a million + copies sold doing updates faster then WoW.
I will tell you the SWToR post launch predicition right this second:
The pve content they are releasing will last roughly 3 months. If they do not update it, then they suffer the same fate as Aion plain and simple, but still keep a large audiece
The pvp content currently from what I know seems MEHHHH at best. Same people that rushed Rift expecting RvR!?!?!?WTFBBQ!?!? will rush SWToR. There will be if there is not already a 200 page thread titles "SWToR needs RvR" or "SWToR needs to be like DAoC". At this point Star Wars fans feel free to make fun of them, but it will happen.
It will get labeled a pve game and that plaque of locust will move onto GW2 when it releases like they plan to do any damn ways.
Someone is really trying to say that Star Wars isn't as popular as Guild Wars? Really? I never even heard of Guild Wars until I visited this site. Star Wars is well known across the world whereas I bet most people who don't visit this site or play mmos will have a farthing clue what Guild Wars is. Stop pretending like your little universe inside of your head is representtive of the majority.
Star Wars as in the movies, the marketing, the p&p games, the books, the video games, etc. is obviously more popular than Guild Wars.
But we're talking about a subscription MMORPG here. It's very likely that most Star Wars fans have no interest at all in playing an MMORPG. You really have to be a Star Wars fan AND a PC gamer to be included in SWTOR's possible fan-base.
Anyway, I've read a few posts of this nature lately, which try to portray Guild Wars 2 and just appealing to a "niche" group, and SWTOR as appealing to this hugely massive group of people that GW2 could never hope to touch. So I started a poll...
They pretty much speak for themselves. The poll sure makes it seem like GW2 is definitely on par in terms of consumer interest with SWTOR. I mean, you can argue that MMORPG.com is not representative of all consumers, or that the numbers are skewed because GW2 is B2P...but I don't think you can just utterly ignore the results.
Just to be clear, I hope both these games do well, but I think it's naive to say that GW2 won't appeal to a large amount of people.
I will have to see more, but I am not blown away by anything I see so far. It all looks like standard/modern MMO mechanics, with some voice-over stuff and options added to it. I have not played KOTOR, and I can not say 100% how I will react to this, but if I play, I have a feeling it will 'slow' the game down for me, and make it more tedious for me. I do not like voice over cut scenes a lot, so I have a bad feeling for where it is going. I am not closing the book on it though. I would have to get into a open beta/trial, or know someone personally that is playing it and talk to them, before I buy it though probably.
If the worlds are vast and many, that will be a plus. Seems like MMOs are getting smaller and smaller, their is no exploring and going off to do things, without being told thats what you have to do. I know its kind of a sandbox type element, and it is not what the game is supposed to be......We will see.
I don't post hate about it though, it's silly to do that. If something isn't for you, sure you can make a post and state why and move on, some people live for making everyone hear/see it.
To the OP, without reading that whole post, but on the topic itself.
If SWTOR fails it will have little or no real affect on the MMORPG market.
It may hurt the Star Wars genre in MMOs. But look at the MMORPG Market as a whole, there have been hundreds of thousands of games that have been failures, and only a few hundred that have been successful, but does it keep people from making more in any genre. Nope.
Lets look at Star Trek, there have been countless dozens of attempts at the Star Trek franchise in a MMO capacity, yet only one has made it, and it really isnt that good as far as "Trek" goes. Its a good game just not a good Star Trek game.
I dont see SWTOR being as good as everyone hopes it will be. Judging on the graphics, the gameplay scenes, and the discription of the game, its going to be D&D online with a Star Wars skin overlayed. Again will this make it a bad game, no, but will it make it a bad Star Wars game, YES.
So for the countless thousands of you who are mindlessly fanboying this game up, dont be surprised if it lets you down. I did the samething with Star Wars Galaxies : An Empire Divided. And I was let down, hard, after the CU patch.
Just some food for thought, in a holocaust camp starved internet.
A bit of a fatalist. I think the OP needs to take a look around. MMO's have become a profitable medium which means that they will be exploited by big companies for the foreseeable future. This is how it works:
Someone takes a chance (UO or Sony's EQ) and they create something.
Indies explore the forumla and experiment.
A large CO. combines the formulas from indies for a new "Super Game" and it becomes a hit.
Companies finally turn a profit.
The forumla is continually experimented upon by indies once again.
Companies wait to combine "new" forumlas for another "super game."
That is how the market works. Yes, Walmart will always pounce and incoporate (some say steal) new game mechanics but that is part of the market. Sometimes even they will have a breakthrough idea...but honestly it is up to you the customer to find a game (and company) that matches your idea. It will take years in some cases. But the timeline is moving (evolving) and sooner or later you'll find the game that has the right variables for you. It's never going to just end.
Thanks for responding (and disagreeing :P) towards the targeted subject of the thread.
I will however have to point out something in your cycle, the reason for this thread :
-------------------------
Someone takes a chance (UO or Sony's EQ) and they create something.
Indies explore the forumla and experiment.
A large CO. combines the formulas from indies for a new "Super Game" and it becomes a hit.
Companies finally turn a profit.
The forumla is continually experimented upon by indies once again.
Companies wait to combine "new" forumlas for another "super game." -- What do you suppose the next step would be if, a company couldn't combine the forumlas (Or if they did, and it became a finanical disaster), there has been no new "Super game". Step 3/4 on your list here is the last thing to actually have happened according to market growth.
It's happened repeatedly. The MMO market is an amazing example of evolution in general. Warhammer, for instanced, thought it was creating a new "super game" but it didn't. In fact, it ended up contributing to the no. 2 in that it experimented with new aspects. As a whole it failed, but its peices (PQ's and PvP) live on in games like Rift and Aion. Again, Rift attempted to create another "super game" but will instead be dismantled and dissected. It could take another generation before the formula is right.
This game won't fail... but if it does quite a bit less than expected and GW2, for that matter... it could be a good thing for the MMORPG genre.
It isn't going to go away - there is clearly way too much money too be made, but maybe some companies will get back to trying to really innovate instead of copy/add a few additional features and re-sell the same experience.
We've seen some smaller companies try to innovate and then fail... but I think moreso due to poor execution, than poor ideas.
i also agree with some ppl here, there's still gw2, personally i didnt find TOR bring anything new to the table, so if it really fails, im not surprise...
If this game fails, it might be a good thing? I'm not hating on it, I'm going to buy it, but people have been complaining about the current state of the mmo-genre. IF this fails (it won't) then maybe more innovative games like Guild Wars 2 could be the standard or the almighty sucsessfull god game in which other devs want to copy. Like WoW is now. Wouldn't be such a bad thing, maybe. I dunno...
If this game fails, it might be a good thing? I'm not hating on it, I'm going to buy it, but people have been complaining about the current state of the mmo-genre. IF this fails (it won't) then maybe more innovative games like Guild Wars 2 could be the standard or the almighty sucsessfull god game in which other devs want to copy. Like WoW is now. Wouldn't be such a bad thing, maybe. I dunno...
It is not exactly games like SWToR holding the genre back. We all know by now where to point the finger and it has been at WoW. Most of us who quit WoW asked the same question "With so much money why is pve content one raid after another with a 5 man sprinkled in as a filler?"
SWToR is trying to add story back into it and more power to them if they can get it to work.
Someone is really trying to say that Star Wars isn't as popular as Guild Wars? Really? I never even heard of Guild Wars until I visited this site. Star Wars is well known across the world whereas I bet most people who don't visit this site or play mmos will have a farthing clue what Guild Wars is. Stop pretending like your little universe inside of your head is representtive of the majority.
Star Wars as in the movies, the marketing, the p&p games, the books, the video games, etc. is obviously more popular than Guild Wars.
But we're talking about a subscription MMORPG here. It's very likely that most Star Wars fans have no interest at all in playing an MMORPG. You really have to be a Star Wars fan AND a PC gamer to be included in SWTOR's possible fan-base.
Anyway, I've read a few posts of this nature lately, which try to portray Guild Wars 2 and just appealing to a "niche" group, and SWTOR as appealing to this hugely massive group of people that GW2 could never hope to touch. So I started a poll...
They pretty much speak for themselves. The poll sure makes it seem like GW2 is definitely on par in terms of consumer interest with SWTOR. I mean, you can argue that MMORPG.com is not representative of all consumers, or that the numbers are skewed because GW2 is B2P...but I don't think you can just utterly ignore the results.
Just to be clear, I hope both these games do well, but I think it's naive to say that GW2 won't appeal to a large amount of people.
My reason for saying that was in response to a poster who himself implied that Guild Wars was more popular than Star Wars just because that was his preference. That statement was so absurd that I thought I should point out what should be obvious even to the biggest Star Wars hater.
I hate to burst your bubble, but it won't just be MMORPG vets that will be picking up this game. Many people who were fans of the KOTOR series will be picking this up as will anyone that likes Star Wars and enjoys gaming. That is precisley why I picked up SWG back in 2004. I never had even heard of the game or MMORPGs until I happened upon it at a Best Buy. Did you think the hundreds of thousands of people that bought that game initially was just thru the MMO underground? Please. They were Star Wars fans, they liked gaming, so they decided to pick it up.
If MMORPG.Com was a true representative of the gaming community, Star Wars Galaxies would have had millions of subs, no NGE would have happened and World of Warcraft would have shut down a long time ago. That argument fits. The fact that so many in this community doesn't like TOR and are so hell bent on trashing it is just a nice reassurance that I will LOVE this game. It's also interesting that so many fans of GW2 think they have to come here to try and change people's minds by bashing TOR and making stuff up. What are they afraid of if their game is SO much better? Shouldn't the quality of their game be enough of an assurance that GW2 will beat TOR? Or are they afraid that TOR will be popular and eat into potential profits for GW2? I suspect the latter.
Again, I could care less what happens to GW2. But when that game's minions decide to litter the TOR forums with nonsense, don't be surprised when a few of us bite back.
Theres always the possibility of project Titan. Honestly thats the only thing I know that might breath new air into the mmo genre.
Umm...you are talking about Blizzard there. They make great games but if you want something fresh you'll have to look elsewhere.
You might be dead right or dead wrong. Only thing in the way is time. Who knows they might not even release it because blizzard is known to kill production of games that seem to be unfit to sell.
For the sake of a lot of players I hope your wrong =(. After all they said it will be unrelated to anything they've done before.
Didn't even read your post, the heading was enough for me. I'm sure all the software houses are watching and if SWTOR doesn't work out they will liquidate their holdings and close shop.
SWTOR is not an original game. It's just another attempt at using same mechanics that 95% of other MMOG's use.
If it fails, it might not be the end of MMOG's. But it might be the end of MMOG's as we know it. Some developers might actually grow some b*lls, and start being creative as for designing the ingame mechanics. At the moment, the difference between different MMOG's lies primarily in the content, not in the mechanics.
I don't want the same basic mechanics in game after game. I hope for new mechanics. I hope for developers thinking outside the box, outside the usual skill-tree, hotkey bar etc. They all pick up on the same ideas. They all seem to develop the safe game.
Very few MMOG's are developing their own mechanics. At the moment I only know of one big game thinking outside this box. EVE Online. Would be lovely if devs actually looked at EVE Online, and thought "Hey, they could make up their own mechanics, right from scratch, so can we."
It's not just a question of themepark vs sandbox. It's mostly a question of original mechanics vs unoriginal mechanics.
I’m not sure if this issue has been addressed, so I’m a throw a line into this lake of thought, and see what it reels in.
On a wide-spread acceptance level, WoW is the only real MMO universally accepted by the bulk of the industry, whether it be consumers, (Casual/Hardcore, PvP/PvE), Critics, Elitists, Haters, Fanboys, ect –
It has become the standard, to many’s dismay – it brought the genre out of a closet that only the most revered of us nerds knew of, to a game that even the most prominent members of society par-take in endless hours of play.
Has anyone asked the really, really.. really… hard question?
What if that was a fluke?
I have been fan of this genre longer then most, my first MMO being EQ back in the last 90s.
I was hyped for WoW mostly for one reason, I played the Warcraft IP RTS games and the notion of being the unit on the ground that I once controlled hundreds of, and visiting places I wage an epic war about was intriguing, so I followed the game’s development closely – I remember reading the articles, the reviews, the critics, the haters, the flamers, the fans, the testers, the developers, I soaked it all in like a sponge.. I was hyped.
The game was an epic success…
Since then there has only been one game to show the same pre-launch pattern, SWTORO, what I’ve been reading, from hype (whether it be empty or legit), to those who have played it and shared their thoughts, reviews, everything it reminds be of the atmosphere that existed prior to WoWs launch. It makes me giddy, hopeful, and most of all concerned for the future of the MMORPG as a Genre.
This game has all the right conditions for a perfect MMO Storm (Like WoW before it), the recipe matches… everything.. the hype, the potential, even what issues the haters are trolling about.. it’s all in the right spot for a success…so…WHAT IF IT FAILS TOO?
Then that’s it… I think that developers are going to abandon the MMORPG, maybe not all at once or in a whole, but.. lets face a few facts :
Recipe for Success (MMORPG)
Take 1 well established franchise (Warcraft, Star Wars) \ Star Wars being the most famous of IPs in the civilized markets
Add marketable game design marinated with superfluous hype, and hate balance.
Add a reputable gaming company (Blizzard, BioWare), BioWare being arguably one of the best RPG producing company.
Mix in a large production, and marketing budget ( 63M for WoW \ 80M [Maybe more?])
Add all the ingredients, and bake til the market is desperately begging for a decent MMO.
Serve at a reasonable price, best kept updated – Makes 1-20 million servings.
So if the recipe for success produces failure, then one must conclude that the MMORPG as a dish is no longer a dish people want to eat….
This is the last chance for the MMORPG to prove that WoW wasn’t a fluke, that the market is still a viable mechanism in today’s entertainment industry, we are dangerously close to becoming a closent genre again, let’s not become the Sim Genre of the next millennium.
Dude, what have you been smoking? Star Wars is one of the more valueable IPs out there but it is no where near the most famous or most valueable. Star Wars:TOR will fail or susceed on it's own merits. As for the effect on MMOs as a whole, there might be a shrug if it fails.
Comments
The whole idea here is rediculous.
One game no matter the IP nor how much hype, or money spent on it will matter much.
Certainly will not be the end of MMORPGS, MMO's or anything else.
The writing was on the wall way back in the days of UO. When they sold out to a bigger Corp. that set the way the rest of this was going to go.
What we have here with SWTOR is, frankly one of the odd balls. They have basically shot themselves in the foot before the race was even started. They have spent so much money there is no way they will ever be able to be more than that, the odd man out now.
The standard, do just enough to make your money back and a bit more for the publisher is the norm, and will continue to be the norm for quite a while in this business.
And yes, WOW was and is a fluke. Anyone that expects another WOW is going to wait for a long, long, time.
Suddenly its a good thing if this game fails cause lets see:
+ Bioware sold out to a company known for crap
+ one if not the biggest I P
+ hype, hype and hype
so if this game fails it will show other developers that quality still matters and not some IP , selling out to the devil or marketing stuff.
The MMORPG genre itself doesn't need all those stupid investors thinking they can buy studios, add a huge IP and are done thats not gonna work any longer (glad). It has yet to be seen if this game has more to offer than the same old just with voice and oh did I mention story?
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
If this game fails it's EA's fault.
Some of you people really crack me up. Your opinion is just that. It's your little pool of thought. I am currently playing Warcraft and Eq2. Do you realize there are Eq2 players that have never ever played WoW? A lot of the older folks that I play with went from Eq1 to 2 and have never played any other games. To them, what does it matter what the "bulk" of the industry cares about?
Just because a game is not as widely popular as WoW, it doesn't mean that game doesn't have an audiance or is not making money. Don't forget that a game like eq2 has been running a few weeks before Wow and is currently still running and making money. If TOR fails, it will not affect anything except the people that played it. Life will go on, gaming will go on and most importantly, MMO's will be just fine. It really doesn't matter. There are still devoted fans playing UO for christ sakes. You think they give a shit if TOR fails? Let's all stop being so damn dramatic and just play games.
And what if WoW was a "fluke"... really?....really? I fluke doesn't last for 7 years. A The definition of "fluke" is an accidental occurrence or a stroke of good luck. You really can't call a game with WoW's massive success and run time a stroke of good luck. That would be like working your ass off in schooling, landing a great job and making a good living for 7 years and calling it an "accidental occurrence". WoW is a sucess do to the hard work of Blizzard. Lets give some credit were credit is due. Even if you hate the game, you can't say the company hasn't done a good job.
OP can you define what you consider fail to me? I see some generalizations in there and references to WoW, so I am a tad confused.
If by fail you mean 90% unsubs like FF14 I doubt it or shut it down APB style and have to re release umm doubt it.
If fail you mean Aion where it is released and then largely ignored and not updated, then I doubt it because EA is seeing dollar signs in their eyes and plan to make serious bank of SWToR as already demonstrated.
If fail you mean WAR/TERA/STO and it releases too early and it is very buggy and constantly crashes, then I can not tell you until it actually releases.
If fail by expecting it to eclipse 12 millions subs on launch date like people expect Rift to do then ummm NO. Whoever in their right mind considers Rift a failure needs to get their head check. It is a game with 2 months worth of hype and close to a million + copies sold doing updates faster then WoW.
I will tell you the SWToR post launch predicition right this second:
The pve content they are releasing will last roughly 3 months. If they do not update it, then they suffer the same fate as Aion plain and simple, but still keep a large audiece
The pvp content currently from what I know seems MEHHHH at best. Same people that rushed Rift expecting RvR!?!?!?WTFBBQ!?!? will rush SWToR. There will be if there is not already a 200 page thread titles "SWToR needs RvR" or "SWToR needs to be like DAoC". At this point Star Wars fans feel free to make fun of them, but it will happen.
It will get labeled a pve game and that plaque of locust will move onto GW2 when it releases like they plan to do any damn ways.
Star Wars as in the movies, the marketing, the p&p games, the books, the video games, etc. is obviously more popular than Guild Wars.
But we're talking about a subscription MMORPG here. It's very likely that most Star Wars fans have no interest at all in playing an MMORPG. You really have to be a Star Wars fan AND a PC gamer to be included in SWTOR's possible fan-base.
Anyway, I've read a few posts of this nature lately, which try to portray Guild Wars 2 and just appealing to a "niche" group, and SWTOR as appealing to this hugely massive group of people that GW2 could never hope to touch. So I started a poll...
I wanted to see how many people from this site would buy GW2, SWTOR, both, or neither in order to gauge interest in the games. The results can be seen here: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/323029/GW2-or-SWTOR-which-one-will-you-definitely-BUY.html
They pretty much speak for themselves. The poll sure makes it seem like GW2 is definitely on par in terms of consumer interest with SWTOR. I mean, you can argue that MMORPG.com is not representative of all consumers, or that the numbers are skewed because GW2 is B2P...but I don't think you can just utterly ignore the results.
Just to be clear, I hope both these games do well, but I think it's naive to say that GW2 won't appeal to a large amount of people.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I will have to see more, but I am not blown away by anything I see so far. It all looks like standard/modern MMO mechanics, with some voice-over stuff and options added to it. I have not played KOTOR, and I can not say 100% how I will react to this, but if I play, I have a feeling it will 'slow' the game down for me, and make it more tedious for me. I do not like voice over cut scenes a lot, so I have a bad feeling for where it is going. I am not closing the book on it though. I would have to get into a open beta/trial, or know someone personally that is playing it and talk to them, before I buy it though probably.
If the worlds are vast and many, that will be a plus. Seems like MMOs are getting smaller and smaller, their is no exploring and going off to do things, without being told thats what you have to do. I know its kind of a sandbox type element, and it is not what the game is supposed to be......We will see.
I don't post hate about it though, it's silly to do that. If something isn't for you, sure you can make a post and state why and move on, some people live for making everyone hear/see it.
To the OP, without reading that whole post, but on the topic itself.
If SWTOR fails it will have little or no real affect on the MMORPG market.
It may hurt the Star Wars genre in MMOs. But look at the MMORPG Market as a whole, there have been hundreds of thousands of games that have been failures, and only a few hundred that have been successful, but does it keep people from making more in any genre. Nope.
Lets look at Star Trek, there have been countless dozens of attempts at the Star Trek franchise in a MMO capacity, yet only one has made it, and it really isnt that good as far as "Trek" goes. Its a good game just not a good Star Trek game.
I dont see SWTOR being as good as everyone hopes it will be. Judging on the graphics, the gameplay scenes, and the discription of the game, its going to be D&D online with a Star Wars skin overlayed. Again will this make it a bad game, no, but will it make it a bad Star Wars game, YES.
So for the countless thousands of you who are mindlessly fanboying this game up, dont be surprised if it lets you down. I did the samething with Star Wars Galaxies : An Empire Divided. And I was let down, hard, after the CU patch.
Just some food for thought, in a holocaust camp starved internet.
So much crap, so little quality.
This game won't fail... but if it does quite a bit less than expected and GW2, for that matter... it could be a good thing for the MMORPG genre.
It isn't going to go away - there is clearly way too much money too be made, but maybe some companies will get back to trying to really innovate instead of copy/add a few additional features and re-sell the same experience.
We've seen some smaller companies try to innovate and then fail... but I think moreso due to poor execution, than poor ideas.
No, there is another: Guild Wars 2.
i also agree with some ppl here, there's still gw2, personally i didnt find TOR bring anything new to the table, so if it really fails, im not surprise...
RIP Orc Choppa
Yoda: Told you I did. Reckless is EA. Now, matters are worse.
Obi-Wan: SWTOR is our last hope.
Yoda: No. There is another.
My theme song.
Lol!!!
began the fail game have.... XD
RIP Orc Choppa
Yoda: Lead to sorrow quotations do.
"If this game fails, so does the MMORPG Genre. This is our last hope."
Define 'Fail".
"Fail" according to WHOM exactly....
The Investors? They win.
Star Wars Fans that never played a MMO before? I will venture a guess they will win.
Themepark MMO fans and Players that generally like all kinds of MMOs?
They win.
Sandbox MMO fans? They lose (myself included).
Most people win. That's hardly a "This is our last hope" scenario.
(and I think SW:TOR will be crap as a MMO but I still think most people will like it and therefore most will win.)
If this game fails, it might be a good thing? I'm not hating on it, I'm going to buy it, but people have been complaining about the current state of the mmo-genre. IF this fails (it won't) then maybe more innovative games like Guild Wars 2 could be the standard or the almighty sucsessfull god game in which other devs want to copy. Like WoW is now. Wouldn't be such a bad thing, maybe. I dunno...
scribble scribble scribble
It is not exactly games like SWToR holding the genre back. We all know by now where to point the finger and it has been at WoW. Most of us who quit WoW asked the same question "With so much money why is pve content one raid after another with a 5 man sprinkled in as a filler?"
SWToR is trying to add story back into it and more power to them if they can get it to work.
Theres always the possibility of project Titan. Honestly thats the only thing I know that might breath new air into the mmo genre.
Umm...you are talking about Blizzard there. They make great games but if you want something fresh you'll have to look elsewhere.
My reason for saying that was in response to a poster who himself implied that Guild Wars was more popular than Star Wars just because that was his preference. That statement was so absurd that I thought I should point out what should be obvious even to the biggest Star Wars hater.
I hate to burst your bubble, but it won't just be MMORPG vets that will be picking up this game. Many people who were fans of the KOTOR series will be picking this up as will anyone that likes Star Wars and enjoys gaming. That is precisley why I picked up SWG back in 2004. I never had even heard of the game or MMORPGs until I happened upon it at a Best Buy. Did you think the hundreds of thousands of people that bought that game initially was just thru the MMO underground? Please. They were Star Wars fans, they liked gaming, so they decided to pick it up.
If MMORPG.Com was a true representative of the gaming community, Star Wars Galaxies would have had millions of subs, no NGE would have happened and World of Warcraft would have shut down a long time ago. That argument fits. The fact that so many in this community doesn't like TOR and are so hell bent on trashing it is just a nice reassurance that I will LOVE this game. It's also interesting that so many fans of GW2 think they have to come here to try and change people's minds by bashing TOR and making stuff up. What are they afraid of if their game is SO much better? Shouldn't the quality of their game be enough of an assurance that GW2 will beat TOR? Or are they afraid that TOR will be popular and eat into potential profits for GW2? I suspect the latter.
Again, I could care less what happens to GW2. But when that game's minions decide to litter the TOR forums with nonsense, don't be surprised when a few of us bite back.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
You might be dead right or dead wrong. Only thing in the way is time. Who knows they might not even release it because blizzard is known to kill production of games that seem to be unfit to sell.
For the sake of a lot of players I hope your wrong =(. After all they said it will be unrelated to anything they've done before.
Didn't even read your post, the heading was enough for me. I'm sure all the software houses are watching and if SWTOR doesn't work out they will liquidate their holdings and close shop.
SWTOR is not an original game. It's just another attempt at using same mechanics that 95% of other MMOG's use.
If it fails, it might not be the end of MMOG's. But it might be the end of MMOG's as we know it. Some developers might actually grow some b*lls, and start being creative as for designing the ingame mechanics. At the moment, the difference between different MMOG's lies primarily in the content, not in the mechanics.
I don't want the same basic mechanics in game after game. I hope for new mechanics. I hope for developers thinking outside the box, outside the usual skill-tree, hotkey bar etc. They all pick up on the same ideas. They all seem to develop the safe game.
Very few MMOG's are developing their own mechanics. At the moment I only know of one big game thinking outside this box. EVE Online. Would be lovely if devs actually looked at EVE Online, and thought "Hey, they could make up their own mechanics, right from scratch, so can we."
It's not just a question of themepark vs sandbox. It's mostly a question of original mechanics vs unoriginal mechanics.
Dude, what have you been smoking? Star Wars is one of the more valueable IPs out there but it is no where near the most famous or most valueable. Star Wars:TOR will fail or susceed on it's own merits. As for the effect on MMOs as a whole, there might be a shrug if it fails.
Personally I don't care either way.