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Pay 2 win becoming legitimate? Have we really lost our way this much?
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well i doubt i will be playing diablo 3 and not so much for the ah, cause i most likely wouldnt use it anyway unless it was to sell some stuff, i would never buy from it because im not into spending my money on stuff i can just play and get. isnt worth it to me. the reason im turned off by diablo 3 now is I have to be online to play it, sorry, I dont want that, I want a single player offline game that i can take anywhere even if I dont have internet availability like when i go on vacation, i can take my laptop and have somethign to do at night after everyone has gone to bed, since I dont go to bed as early as everyone else in my family does.
just not into that, but pay 2 win to me only comes into play with pvp centric games. personally in a pve game only I dont care if someone else buys a sword of instant monster destruction, it wont matter to me at all, unless they can affect my gameplay somehow by doing this. im sort of confused about how diablo 3 is gonna work, cause when i played diablo 2 it was a single player game and there was no multiplayer, or it was I think but i never got into it but everyone is talkign about diablo 3 as if it is gonna be a mmo and not a single player game. personally if everyone has their own little diablo world to explore what does it matter if someone buys the sword of instant monster destruction from somebody else, it wont affect your gameplay if you play in your own little world. if this game is going to be more like a mmo though, then yeah i can see the problem, but if it is I dont want it anyway.
Well, if you are not okay with the rules, dont play the game. And as i said before, there will be always games with f2p, p2w, p2p, systems, it's your choice.
Well no duh, I'm not planning to buy D3 for that exact reason. What we're talking about is whether what they are doing is right or not; not simply what everyone is going to do becasue of it.
It's not a moral decision. It's a "I Like It" or "I Don't Like It" decision. Blizzard is free to develop their game as they see fit. Players are free to buy the game and use the AH, buy the game and not use the AH, or to just not buy the game. It doesn't infringe anyone's rights or endanger anyone's soul. People have the opportunity to exercise their free will.
It seems the biggest issue people have with this is that other people disagree with them.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I have no problem with Pay to Win.
I don't play cash shop games, period. If the item mall has items taht have stats in the game, or xp potions, I will not play it.
But if someone wants to play a game where you put down a thousand bucks and you win, go for it.
It's your money, your fun. Enjoy yourself.
Since Diablo is more of a co-op game, p2w does not accurately describe the situation. To put it more accurately it should be pay to experience the content at your own pace.
I fully agree, no gamer is entitled to anything from any developer. Blizzard could make Diablo 3 a pony-themed typing game if that's what they wanted and nobody has the right to demand otherwise.
Howevever, that doesn't mean a developer can't be wrong about a franchise or that fans of a franchise can't be angry when they game they've been waiting for is nothing like expected. I think blizzard is making the wrong decision by embracing RMT without addressing the reasons it was banned in D2 in the first place and I have the right to be vocal about it.
Nothing changes the fact that the RMAH undermines any effort that obtaining items/gold/characters legitimately requires.
Nothing changes the fact that Blizzard would rather join and profit from RMT than fight it.
Nothing changes the fact that Diablo 3 IS a Pay-to-win game.
As fan I might not have the right to demand any different, but I DO have the right to be angry and disappointed.
It is foolish to think that a Co-operative setting does not have competition.
1. PvP is in the game. PvP balance might not be a focus but it is a feature in the game that is going to be drastrically affected by RMT.
2. Competition occurs even in PvE. Most damage, most monsters killed, assigned loot drops, etc are all competition even in a Co-op game.
That is less accurate. You wouldn't pay to play at your own pace, you would pay to play at a pace faster than your own pace.
This whole "Pay to Play, blah, blah, blah..." stuff is complete nonsense. People do not use RMT to play the game that the company is providing. They pay to play a completely different game than the one the company is providing. That is why it is a bad idea for a company to support RMT, especially in the manner that is slated for Diablo 3.
Basically they are inviting a playerbase that as a whole (generally speaking, not meant in blanket terms) doesn't really care that much about their game design, artwork, skill system, challenge system, or story, and providing that playerbase with tools for the outside game, the meta-game. Encouraging the metagame undermines the intended gameplay, as the metagame is about beating the design and terms of service of the inner game rather than using the inner design for entertainment.
Blizzard just issued a challenge to every duper, hacker, and exploiter to come help Blizzard make more money.
They are going to find out how self-defeating that invitation was.
My thoughts exactly! I agree with you.
Well if Blizzard provides a medium for gold farmers to use, a medium that they can track, its much easier to combat against it. Sure, eventually there will be black market, but you are eliminating player's need to use them. Honestly, I rather Blizzard to earn the money than the gold farmersm if I have to choose between one of them, as least you are getting a cut of the money as well.
But I don't agree with Blizzard on charing people for people putting items on the AH, instead they should limit how many items a player can put up, I bought the game, I shouldn't have to pay extra to put something up for sale.
How much WoW could a WoWhater hate, if a WoWhater could hate WoW?
As much WoW as a WoWhater would, if a WoWhater could hate WoW.
I grew up when most games were played at the arcade and they were all play to win and cost a fortune!
I remember some kids pumping in quarter after quarter, but were never good enough to win.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
I wondered about that. The Chinese government have been cracking down on virtual item & currency sales in the last 2 years but not for the reasons you may think. The government has big issues with online gambling & they found that virtual item/currency purchases & sales were being used to effectively "launder" money from online gambling & assorted criminal activities and convert it to local currency.
I guess limiting the official A/H to buying & selling within their own regions addresses this. However you say there is no profitablity for them to have a blackmarket ? but there is still a reason to operate a black market item/currency shop if they are using it for laundering money like they have been doing with other games, in which case they would probably even take a small loss on transactions just so they can continue about their acitivites.
So with that in mind I dont think official game markets will entirely solve the problem.
I believe arcade games would be classified as pay to PLAY not pay to win
. I can guarantee you that putting quarters in that box is no guarantee that you're going to win.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Say we accept your definition of competition. Say anyone can believe that anything is competitive, be the first to see a boss. OK, so what?
Why do I need to care what the others think or do with his copy of D2 or D3? I play my own D2, I do not see any reason why I am concerned if someone else need to buy the purple sword of killing every boss with his dollar bills.
Do you need to know? Do you need to be concerned? Is that really a priority issue among thousands of other things happening around you? Is a game so serious in your life agenda that you need to jump up and down?
Its a game, its a basically solo/group dungeon crawler, pve, coop game. Relax and play.
I have seen this topic several times. And IMHO, the answer is best stated by the guys over at Extra Credits.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3689-Microtransactions
Well if you do not follow those rules of competition that you are obviously not cool and all the other kids will laugh at you at recess.
Like any 'Serious Business' obsession it seems meaningless to people outside it and its rules seem contrived and do not make sense. To us it makes as much sense a competing to see who is the biggest Twilight fan or whether Kirk or Picard were the better captain. To me trying to be competive in Diablo PvE makes as much sense as trying to be competive in Calvin Ball.
To be fair we all fall into this with certain activities and topics and it makes us look outright insane to outsiders.
I get that some people don't see it as 'competition'. Some people are completely out of reach because thinking out of their own box is neigh impossible but where does 'obsession' and 'serious business' come into play?
It doesn't matter what you accept or not. It's real, It's there, people do it. The only thing left to discuss is your opinion about it. If you find it lame then so be it. It doesn't change anything really. My 'fun' factor doesn't suddenly decide change because somebody on the internet tells me 'I'm wrong'
You can call it a game. I call it a P2W cash grab. it stopped being a game for me once the AH was introduced
You are incredibly naive if you think that the trival cost of website management or paypal fees factors into the consideration of the gold sellers. No. The gold sellers earn a lot of vital information through careless visits to their sites.
Pun ends.
The really major change in the rules of the game now is competition. In the past the gold farmers rule the market. You need to run another gold farming "illegal" ring to join the selling side. With this RMAH every D3 gamer can sell, at limited costs. What will happen is a likely an influx of supplies. We know that would most likely lead to price reduction, to lowering of profits for gold farmers and making it less lucrative.
The easiest way to look into the situation is asking this question, "who stands to lose the most?"
Players who do not buy RMT will not be affected, they join or run a game, finish it and move on
Players who buy RMT can now choose between gold farmer sites and Blizzard RMAH. These players will buy anyway, and RMAH offers them additional supplier source, regulated and free of risk of trojan infested gold farmer sites.
Players who have unwanted loots can only trade to random players in the past using SoJs as currency, now they can use ingame AH and RMAH. They can compete with gold farmers directly. Extra options for them, no loss.
Gold farmers are the only one to suffer. They have nothing extra and they have to compete against Blizzard's RMAH or play along and pay fees, face competition, and the risk of Blizzard twitching supplies to curtail inflation.
By this reasoning, this move by Blizz is not hurting the player base in general, my reasoning.
Good video. I agree with just about everything in it. I'm still a little leery about selling leveling speed...but I guess you're really not skipping the content, you're just letting the players repeat it less. We'll see, maybe I'll warm up to it with time...it would just have to be implemented right. I do think it's shaky ground though, because it can encourage developers to make their games overly "grindy" to encourage players to buy exp boosting potions. In the end, so long as P2P and B2P games aren't "designed" in the way I describe previously that basically forces you into a microtransaction to avoid doldrum content, I would be okay with it.
Another thing the video said was that you should NEVER sell power, and this I totally agree with. D3 isn't really an MMORPG, and I'm not sure how "competitive" it will be, but I do see the RMAH as essentially selling power. An uber item is, after all, powerful. True, it's players selling other players power, but it still results in players being able to buy power with $. In D3...maybe it won't be a huge deal. But in a game like WoW? I think an RMAH would be very, very bad.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
I totally understand where the OP is coming from. At one point I was preaching the same stuff. I still agree for the most part except.....
Id rather have Pay to Win rather than a subscription model. It used to make so much sense to me. I pay my subscription and I get to play. Years later I find myself looking back and saying, " Why? How stupid is that? ". Im not even sure what I was paying for. I already bought the game. I have to pay for most added content via expansions anyways. Plus, with a sub model I always miss out on other games Id actually rather be playing because I feel like if I go play something else Im wasting my sub fee. Precious hours LOST! Oh NO!
As far as pay to win goes, I dont really like it. But I prefer to solo moslty anyways. Occasionally I make some friends and we group up, but mainly Im a loner. So what do I care if someone payed lots of cash for an uber sword? If the devs can make more money that way more power to them. I wont be buying any of it, but whatever.
However it does tend to tick players off. So is it really worth making some extra money on the side while loosing subs due to it? Not sure.
With D3 there is no such choice between a sub and P2W. It's an ARPG. Accepting P2W Because it's better than a sub is good and all but it doesn't really apply to this game