Yes the second video was definitely much better to watch as we got to see a lot more class abilities being used. About my earlier comments, I was only agreeing with other people in this thread that stated that targetted ranged attacks don't look be dodgeable by melee. Also I was definitely referring in my previous post to stealth and not camouflage/Invisibility which is the Ranger skill, and not nearly as threatening as stealth.
That said, even though ArenaNet has a good record for class balancing, I think it's more realistic to believe at even with just 8 classes, there will not be anything above decent balance in PvP. This may be my personal opinion but I've noticed over time that the source of the PvP imbalance comes from the players and not the devs themselves. There's always one or two classes that are OP that seemingly never get nerfed, or are just generally hard to touch, simply due to the popularity of the class itself. Ideally you'll want to see in PvP class representation as close to even across all classes (12.5% in GW2). But when you see 20-30% of the playerbase played by one class that's when the problems start.
I don't think that the stealth mechanic itself will make Thief dangerous in PvP, but the popularity of stealth based classes in PvP that will make Thief dangerous. There's a thread already asking about how popular Thief is going to be in GW2 forums, and it's generally accepted that the class will be very popular. There's no reason to assume otherwise, as Rogue type classes have always been extremely popular in MMOs, and GW2 will be no different.
What this means is that don't shocked to see a disproportional amount of "Thief should be #1 dps threads" or "nerf class X because it kills Thieves" threads.
Everytime I see this "there is no evidence that melee can dodge projectiles" my first thought is "ISNT THAT BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DONT MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO DODGE??!!" and then "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". I watched a vid with a thief fighting an Ele and all he did was strafe and he dodged a projectile from the ele.
Other than the visual effects and the constant dodging/rolling it looks like typical mmo combat. Looks good.
Well dodging is a big part of combat. In the WHOLE video, there wasn't a single battle where the player and an opponent stood still spamming skills for 5+ seconds. Standing still and rolling dice is a typical MMO.
GW2 does not focus on standing still, as seen in the video. Dodging, missing, and blocking are physical and NOT dependent on dice rolls.
Whether you like the game or like another game, try to be at least reasonable and understand that this game cannot be that similar to the typical MMO. This games has completely different mechanics, as some are listed above. To say this looks like a typical MMO would be like saying "Devil May Cry" or "God of War" look like typical MMOs. I'm not comparing GW2 to those two, but its mechanics are much more akin to those two titles then say... WoW, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR.
I thought it was funny all the comments I see on this site that the Battle of Kyhlo map in GW2 is just Altharii Basin from WoW (the infamous it looks like WoW comments).
Go ahead watch both videos! You guys are so right after watching you cannot tell the difference between Kyhlo and Altharii, I mean on my god they are exact duplicates. /bang head against wall
The comments people make in forums is downright funny so times.
I thought it was funny all the comments I see on this site that the Battle of Kyhlo map in GW2 is just Altharii Basin from WoW (the infamous it looks like WoW comments).
Go ahead watch both videos! You guys are so right after watching you cannot tell the difference between Kyhlo and Altharii, I mean on my god they are exact duplicates. /bang head against wall
The comments people make in forums is downright funny so times.
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the announcer voice for things like "Enemy captured the windmill!" very, very annoying?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
yessssss huge learning curve istead of running out of the fire we roll out of the fire. Good attempt though. Also in that video, no one dodged any projectiles and the one time somone did the spell followed them, just like every other game, soooo im pretty sure your just making stuff up now.
Ive played god of war and got my fair share of barrel roll tactics. tyvm
Your post provided nothing other than proving that people are sucked up into this barrel roll hype, that and a failed attempt at a personal attack. gg
Edited for above above poster: Ive asked on multiple forums whats so revolutionary and all i get is barrel rolls. But your wrong i will play this game just like i give every mmo worth visiting a couple months, I just want everyone to get over the hype and admit, its just wow with barrel rolls. (Even though wow allready had pretty much the same thing just a class specific ability)
I’m more than happy for you to spout your opinions on a level my friends 5 year old is at. However I feel it is my duty to inform you, it still isn't true. You see the learning curve doesn’t come from barrel rolling out of an aoe fire attack. In fact, it comes from the very reason you gave that example. It’s because you sat here typing that example feeling just and correct that the learning curve for you is steep. You can protest this as much as you like, the Internet allows you to do so.
The majority of projectiles you can avoid, some you cannot. Let me offer up an example I’m comfortable you will understand. In wow Arcane missiles once connected will follow it’s target through obstacles until it’s duration ends. Likewise there are skills in GW2 that you will not avoid. That does not mean the ecception becomes the rule, you can simply los other spells in wow, as such the exception for arcane missles is not simply the rule of thumb
I’m also fine with you saying, barrel rolling out of an aoe isn’t original. You’re right, for you it’s not. It’s because of your way of thinking that’s the situation your mind puts you in. In mine I’ve evaded the aoe altogether, or I evaded behind obstacles and Los the foe. You see, it’s not the game at fault, it’s your ridged box method of thinking, this is the learning curve you have to overcome. It’s because you can’t overcome it now in your imagination alone, that the curve will be a might mountain you have to treck.
More personal attacks from the internet tough guy here, cool story bro. Once again you post nothing of value.
Looks great, and seam very fun, will the game have a lot of map like this, how much can we expect of those maps? (i suspect between 3 to 5, but just asking out of curiosity if anyone knows)
The game seam to have pretty much all what i expect from a next gen. The map seam well done with the proper amount of strategical points and a lot of cover, i like the siege weapons. Can't wait for some WvWvW info and a release date ;p
The asura look a lot better than i was expecting too.
I thought it was funny all the comments I see on this site that the Battle of Kyhlo map in GW2 is just Altharii Basin from WoW (the infamous it looks like WoW comments).
Go ahead watch both videos! You guys are so right after watching you cannot tell the difference between Kyhlo and Altharii, I mean on my god they are exact duplicates. /bang head against wall
The comments people make in forums is downright funny so times.
The reason why they say this is because both maps are control point pvp games. And you know, WoW invented control point pvp.
yessssss huge learning curve istead of running out of the fire we roll out of the fire. Good attempt though. Also in that video, no one dodged any projectiles and the one time somone did the spell followed them, just like every other game, soooo im pretty sure your just making stuff up now.
Ive played god of war and got my fair share of barrel roll tactics. tyvm
Your post provided nothing other than proving that people are sucked up into this barrel roll hype, that and a failed attempt at a personal attack. gg
Edited for above above poster: Ive asked on multiple forums whats so revolutionary and all i get is barrel rolls. But your wrong i will play this game just like i give every mmo worth visiting a couple months, I just want everyone to get over the hype and admit, its just wow with barrel rolls. (Even though wow allready had pretty much the same thing just a class specific ability)
I’m more than happy for you to spout your opinions on a level my friends 5 year old is at. However I feel it is my duty to inform you, it still isn't true. You see the learning curve doesn’t come from barrel rolling out of an aoe fire attack. In fact, it comes from the very reason you gave that example. It’s because you sat here typing that example feeling just and correct that the learning curve for you is steep. You can protest this as much as you like, the Internet allows you to do so.
The majority of projectiles you can avoid, some you cannot. Let me offer up an example I’m comfortable you will understand. In wow Arcane missiles once connected will follow it’s target through obstacles until it’s duration ends. Likewise there are skills in GW2 that you will not avoid. That does not mean the ecception becomes the rule, you can simply los other spells in wow, as such the exception for arcane missles is not simply the rule of thumb
I’m also fine with you saying, barrel rolling out of an aoe isn’t original. You’re right, for you it’s not. It’s because of your way of thinking that’s the situation your mind puts you in. In mine I’ve evaded the aoe altogether, or I evaded behind obstacles and Los the foe. You see, it’s not the game at fault, it’s your ridged box method of thinking, this is the learning curve you have to overcome. It’s because you can’t overcome it now in your imagination alone, that the curve will be a might mountain you have to treck.
More personal attacks from the internet tough guy here, cool story bro. Once again you post nothing of value.
...says the pot to the kettle.
And another istance of you not only spamming one liner junk as evidence you cannot or did not actually read the posts in question. More often than not, you are the biggest hypocrtite here.
***
That said, regarding the subject of this thread and not to you specificically: There really is nothing "apparently" new in this battle ground like game instance. It is old and over used now a days. Just about every mmorpg with pvp impliments not only a map like this but the exact challenge mechanics. That said, on the flip side, it would be strange if they did not have it in the game since "everyone else is doing it". The objective part is that this is NOTHING new, the SUBJECTIVE part is that it could be fun or boring depending on who plays it even if its not new.
Secondly, because this is an instanced and quite tiny pvp map, there is no excuse for that level of environment art. The meshes are not very next gen and the design underwhelming. They could have used these instanced zones to really push what the engine was capable of instead of minimalize it even more. Lets hope this gets improved by release.
Did someone notice that in the first Boon vs developers game, the supposedly uber elementalist got 2nd lowest ratings of her/his team at then end score... So basically some other classes/players from the arenanet team did much better on arenanet side.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Did someone notice that in the first Boon vs developers game, the supposedly uber elementalist got 2nd lowest ratings of her/his team at then end score... So basically some other classes/players from the arenanet team did much better on arenanet side.
What EvilGeek posted on page 8 was the first or second one? That´s why I posted the mage looked kinda overpowered. He targeted an opponent, threw out his instant spells and went into Mist-mode or rolling around. I wondered, if all the classes have this pool of optinions. Because then a melee has a problem, if he cannot avoid these instant spells. Yes, a warrior can use a bow, but...
I just want to reiterate what some other people have noticed.... There is nothing shown from the PvP videos that shows players can dodge spells. In fact, all spells looked like they were homing in on the player.
The only way to do a non-homing spell is by having an aiming reticle for the person casting the spell so he can aim the spell..... but GW2 does not have aiming reticles... so we can say that all spells are homing spells. (except for AoE spells obviously).
This makes it so that the only possible way to make dodge work for spells is by making it so that when the spell reaches the target if the targeted player is in the middle of their dodge "barrel roll", then the spell misses.
The only problem with this is that this makes dodging melee classes MUCH easier than classes who mainly use spells. This will make the game HEAVILY favored for spell casters.
I just want to reiterate what some other people have noticed.... There is nothing shown from the PvP videos that shows players can dodge spells. In fact, all spells looked like they were homing in on the player.
Just because you have not noticed it does not mean it is not possible! Watch the following video at the 3 minute mark you will see a thief move and an Elementalist will miss with his fire spell. So I guess not all spells home in on the enemy player, like many people on this forum have been saying!
I just want to reiterate what some other people have noticed.... There is nothing shown from the PvP videos that shows players can dodge spells. In fact, all spells looked like they were homing in on the player.
Just because you have not noticed it does not mean it is not possible! Watch the following video at the 3 minute mark you will see a thief move and an Elementalist will miss with his fire spell. So I guess not all spells home in on the enemy player, like many people on this forum have been saying!
Nice find slappy and it was clear as day. She didn't even initiate dodge, only strafed behind the boxes. It is harder to notice dodged spells and ranged attacks when most of the PvP combat we have seen has been at melee ranged. Wish I woulda had this video when I was trying to explain this a couple days ago.
Comments
Yes the second video was definitely much better to watch as we got to see a lot more class abilities being used. About my earlier comments, I was only agreeing with other people in this thread that stated that targetted ranged attacks don't look be dodgeable by melee. Also I was definitely referring in my previous post to stealth and not camouflage/Invisibility which is the Ranger skill, and not nearly as threatening as stealth.
That said, even though ArenaNet has a good record for class balancing, I think it's more realistic to believe at even with just 8 classes, there will not be anything above decent balance in PvP. This may be my personal opinion but I've noticed over time that the source of the PvP imbalance comes from the players and not the devs themselves. There's always one or two classes that are OP that seemingly never get nerfed, or are just generally hard to touch, simply due to the popularity of the class itself. Ideally you'll want to see in PvP class representation as close to even across all classes (12.5% in GW2). But when you see 20-30% of the playerbase played by one class that's when the problems start.
I don't think that the stealth mechanic itself will make Thief dangerous in PvP, but the popularity of stealth based classes in PvP that will make Thief dangerous. There's a thread already asking about how popular Thief is going to be in GW2 forums, and it's generally accepted that the class will be very popular. There's no reason to assume otherwise, as Rogue type classes have always been extremely popular in MMOs, and GW2 will be no different.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/popularity-thiefi-t14030.html
What this means is that don't shocked to see a disproportional amount of "Thief should be #1 dps threads" or "nerf class X because it kills Thieves" threads.
Other than the visual effects and the constant dodging/rolling it looks like typical mmo combat. Looks good.
All i know is that necro looks too IMBA!
Everytime I see this "there is no evidence that melee can dodge projectiles" my first thought is "ISNT THAT BECAUSE THEY ACTUALLY DONT MAKE AN ATTEMPT TO DODGE??!!" and then "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". I watched a vid with a thief fighting an Ele and all he did was strafe and he dodged a projectile from the ele.
This is not a game.
Well dodging is a big part of combat. In the WHOLE video, there wasn't a single battle where the player and an opponent stood still spamming skills for 5+ seconds. Standing still and rolling dice is a typical MMO.
GW2 does not focus on standing still, as seen in the video. Dodging, missing, and blocking are physical and NOT dependent on dice rolls.
Whether you like the game or like another game, try to be at least reasonable and understand that this game cannot be that similar to the typical MMO. This games has completely different mechanics, as some are listed above. To say this looks like a typical MMO would be like saying "Devil May Cry" or "God of War" look like typical MMOs. I'm not comparing GW2 to those two, but its mechanics are much more akin to those two titles then say... WoW, Aion, Rift, or SWTOR.
HD Video
I thought it was funny all the comments I see on this site that the Battle of Kyhlo map in GW2 is just Altharii Basin from WoW (the infamous it looks like WoW comments).
GW2 Battle of Kyhlo – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrpCyM_Aock
WoW Altharii Basin – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsV-SQSZce8
Go ahead watch both videos! You guys are so right after watching you cannot tell the difference between Kyhlo and Altharii, I mean on my god they are exact duplicates. /bang head against wall
The comments people make in forums is downright funny so times.
+1 Tragically funny....
Is it just me, or does anyone else find the announcer voice for things like "Enemy captured the windmill!" very, very annoying?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
...says the pot to the kettle.
Looks great, and seam very fun, will the game have a lot of map like this, how much can we expect of those maps? (i suspect between 3 to 5, but just asking out of curiosity if anyone knows)
The game seam to have pretty much all what i expect from a next gen. The map seam well done with the proper amount of strategical points and a lot of cover, i like the siege weapons. Can't wait for some WvWvW info and a release date ;p
The asura look a lot better than i was expecting too.
The reason why they say this is because both maps are control point pvp games. And you know, WoW invented control point pvp.
And another istance of you not only spamming one liner junk as evidence you cannot or did not actually read the posts in question. More often than not, you are the biggest hypocrtite here.
***
That said, regarding the subject of this thread and not to you specificically: There really is nothing "apparently" new in this battle ground like game instance. It is old and over used now a days. Just about every mmorpg with pvp impliments not only a map like this but the exact challenge mechanics. That said, on the flip side, it would be strange if they did not have it in the game since "everyone else is doing it". The objective part is that this is NOTHING new, the SUBJECTIVE part is that it could be fun or boring depending on who plays it even if its not new.
Secondly, because this is an instanced and quite tiny pvp map, there is no excuse for that level of environment art. The meshes are not very next gen and the design underwhelming. They could have used these instanced zones to really push what the engine was capable of instead of minimalize it even more. Lets hope this gets improved by release.
I like it, actually. It sorta gives you some audio feedback that helps you figure out what is happening where. The voice is Jon St. John btw.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
Did someone notice that in the first Boon vs developers game, the supposedly uber elementalist got 2nd lowest ratings of her/his team at then end score... So basically some other classes/players from the arenanet team did much better on arenanet side.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Your very easily annoyed.
He targeted an opponent, threw out his instant spells and went into Mist-mode or rolling around. I wondered, if all the classes have this pool of optinions.
Because then a melee has a problem, if he cannot avoid these instant spells. Yes, a warrior can use a bow, but...
I just want to reiterate what some other people have noticed.... There is nothing shown from the PvP videos that shows players can dodge spells. In fact, all spells looked like they were homing in on the player.
The only way to do a non-homing spell is by having an aiming reticle for the person casting the spell so he can aim the spell..... but GW2 does not have aiming reticles... so we can say that all spells are homing spells. (except for AoE spells obviously).
This makes it so that the only possible way to make dodge work for spells is by making it so that when the spell reaches the target if the targeted player is in the middle of their dodge "barrel roll", then the spell misses.
The only problem with this is that this makes dodging melee classes MUCH easier than classes who mainly use spells. This will make the game HEAVILY favored for spell casters.
Just because you have not noticed it does not mean it is not possible! Watch the following video at the 3 minute mark you will see a thief move and an Elementalist will miss with his fire spell. So I guess not all spells home in on the enemy player, like many people on this forum have been saying!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xu3Z0BOMqXY
Nice find slappy and it was clear as day. She didn't even initiate dodge, only strafed behind the boxes. It is harder to notice dodged spells and ranged attacks when most of the PvP combat we have seen has been at melee ranged. Wish I woulda had this video when I was trying to explain this a couple days ago.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Guild Wars had control point pvp before WOW
WOW didnt have any battlegrounds until the summer of 2005
http://www.wowwiki.com/Battleground
EQ2 fan sites
Just quickly thinking back to my childhood, Medal of Honor had control points, and that is in the 90's
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
revised my comment -
i meant to show that GuildWars had battegrounds before WOW
EQ2 fan sites
Think it is quite obvious that he is being sarcastic, and so am I
"I am not a robot. I am a unicorn."
So WoW had dodging and destructible environments?
Ok then,it looks like wow with a couple bells and whistles....How's that?