I'm really sorry that GW1 killed your dog or whatever happened that makes you relentlessly bash GW2. This thread is about the payment model and the perception (whether or not it's true) that a B2P game is not in competition with a P2P game.
If anything, what I could take away from your post is that SWTOR, Rift and WoW players will buy GW2 but only for the PVP. I'm pretty sure if that happened then ArenaNet would somehow be ok having to focus their future efforts on more PVP content for the 12 million people who just bought it.
I'm not even going to address why there's no reason to be concerned about the lack of pve raiding and direct healing. It's off topic.
No this thread is proposing that just because a game is B2P with no sub that it should automatically compete with what is on the market. What I am very clearly telling you is IF YOUR GAME IS COMPLETE then it will compete.
This concept is simple. All I see from Guild Wars 2 is pvp pvp pvppvpvpvpvppvpv and more pvpvpvpvp. All I know about pvp'rs is they bitch constantly and never ever shut up. Only thing I have heard about pve on GW2 is some open world dynamic stuff we have no idea what the rewards are and some 5 man dungeons with different modes and anything past 5man is just evil and not allowed.
Sorry, but 7 years of WoW completely wtfpwning this market with release raid ---> nerf raid ---> release raid strategy prove you guys are in the minority. You can not just leave pve instanced raiding out of your game. It just looks incomplete to me. I mean even SWToR figured out how to fit it in there.
How is it all about pvp when the first pvp gameplay was released LAST WEEK? The pnly thing out by pvp is wvwvw (not all the facts) and structured pvp. It has been mentioned several time there is moee but it is not known what. And your quote about raiding, it has been proven that no you don't (original gw). Just becuase the majority does it, doesn't mean the minority does. Guild wars 2 is complete, your rewards are based on your participation every time you complete a dynamic quest.
Subscription fee of 0.01$ pays your server costs and support wages. GTFO with "mmo neeeds sub".
Would like to know how you arrived at your conclusion. Mind explaining to us in detail?
lets say 10000 users. Thats 1000$ . 300$ for server, 700$ for 3 customer suport guys. And people in east will be pleased ot have work that pays that much!!!
Indie company makes 5$ soft then microsoft type corporaiton stamples with its logo and its 500$ program.
Capitalism ftw.
Oh so you are telling GTFO to other on basis of guess work and speculation.
And you give briliant arguments. Why my statements are untrue. Go check how much in russia or china people earn.
I was hoping for some hard data. I thought you work in gaming industry so maybe you know what you are talking about. But you turned out to be another comfy chair self proclaimed expert. I didn't offer any argument just asked a question and expected you to back up your claim with some real reasoning. but you got none.
Subscription fee of 0.01$ pays your server costs and support wages. GTFO with "mmo neeeds sub".
Would like to know how you arrived at your conclusion. Mind explaining to us in detail?
lets say 10000 users. Thats 1000$ . 300$ for server, 700$ for 3 customer suport guys. And people in east will be pleased ot have work that pays that much!!!
Indie company makes 5$ soft then microsoft type corporaiton stamples with its logo and its 500$ program.
Capitalism ftw.
Oh so you are telling GTFO to other on basis of guess work and speculation.
And you give briliant arguments. Why my statements are untrue. Go check how much in russia or china people earn.
It is untrue because the numbers you have used in your post is false.
If you think MS program isn't worth $500 (or w/e MS charges) you are more than welcomed to not actually BUY the product.
You see, capitalism works both ways.
And yes, Capitalism FTW!
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
all MMO's compete. the only ones which had different enough appeal to not compete head to head were EVE and GW. even then, any game like this competes for the player's time and money on some level.
And the burden of proof is always on the person making the assertion. That would be the OP.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Subscription fee of 0.01$ pays your server costs and support wages. GTFO with "mmo neeeds sub".
Would like to know how you arrived at your conclusion. Mind explaining to us in detail?
lets say 10000 users. Thats 1000$ . 300$ for server, 700$ for 3 customer suport guys. And people in east will be pleased ot have work that pays that much!!!
Indie company makes 5$ soft then microsoft type corporaiton stamples with its logo and its 500$ program.
Capitalism ftw.
Oh so you are telling GTFO to other on basis of guess work and speculation.
And you give briliant arguments. Why my statements are untrue. Go check how much in russia or china people earn.
I was hoping for some hard data. I thought you work in gaming industry so maybe you know what you are talking about. But you turned out to be another comfy chair self proclaimed expert. I didn't offer any argument just asked a question and expected you to back up your claim with some real reasoning. but you got none.
I was hoping for some hard data. I thought you work in gaming industry so maybe you know what you are talking about. But you turned out to be another comfy chair self proclaimed expert. I didn't offer any argument just asked a question and expected you to back up your claim with some real reasoning. but you got none.
computer programmer:
USA - $ 4,141
CHINA - $ 252
Price of a sandwich
USA - $1
China - $0.25
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Subscription fee of 0.01$ pays your server costs and support wages. GTFO with "mmo neeeds sub".
Would like to know how you arrived at your conclusion. Mind explaining to us in detail?
lets say 10000 users. Thats 1000$ . 300$ for server, 700$ for 3 customer suport guys. And people in east will be pleased ot have work that pays that much!!!
Indie company makes 5$ soft then microsoft type corporaiton stamples with its logo and its 500$ program.
Capitalism ftw.
Oh so you are telling GTFO to other on basis of guess work and speculation.
And you give briliant arguments. Why my statements are untrue. Go check how much in russia or china people earn.
I was hoping for some hard data. I thought you work in gaming industry so maybe you know what you are talking about. But you turned out to be another comfy chair self proclaimed expert. I didn't offer any argument just asked a question and expected you to back up your claim with some real reasoning. but you got none.
probably one of the largest costs, would be the internet connectivity.. which is probably anything from $100,000 - $600,000 per calender month, based on traffic volume and data transfer rates, for anything more exact would need to know how many T3 lines or whatever, they were using.. but either way.. you can bet its not cheap.. then there is the hardware issue for the hosting the games themselves, server farms are not cheap.. add in maintenance/component replacement costs, and the price starts mounting pretty quickly.. for a game like WoW i can imagine that connectivity costs alone are probably far in excess of $1 million per month.. ..
Yes it is MMO and it wants players it can get so GW2 is competing against SWTOR,WOW but In the mmo market players normal just play one game maybe two and most case the second is free to play game because it has no sub.Remember reports of War,AoC and Rifts taking players away from WoW.Well GW2 wars 2 does not complete do that picking up GW2 is like picking up Dragon age,Mass Effect,Skyrim or Diablo did playing those game make you drop your mmo sub.
It is not that hard to understand Rifts,STWOR,and WoW are competing for your 15 dollars a month.GW2 is competing for your time.
-If you are one mmo gamer then GW2 is competing against WOW,TOR
-If you are one sub mmo player but you play multiple RPG then GW2 is not competing against those mmo.Guilds Wars 2 is just another RPG purchase
It is not that hard to understand.
If players are smart they pick up GW2 first because then at point they will always have GW2.Then the 15 dollars a month you are saving can be use to buy STWOR or what ever MMO you choose to play after 4 months.Simple Math
Will there be a subscription fee for Guild Wars 2?
Nope. Like the original Guild Wars, there will be no subscription fee for Guild Wars 2. You just buy the game and play it online without paying a monthly fee.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Subscription fee of 0.01$ pays your server costs and support wages. GTFO with "mmo neeeds sub".
probably one of the largest costs, would be the internet connectivity.. which is probably anything from $100,000 - $600,000 per calender month, based on traffic volume and data transfer rates, for anything more exact would need to know how many T3 lines or whatever, they were using.. but either way.. you can bet its not cheap.. then there is the hardware issue for the hosting the games themselves, server farms are not cheap.. add in maintenance/component replacement costs, and the price starts mounting pretty quickly.. for a game like WoW i can imagine that connectivity costs alone are probably far in excess of $1 million per month.. ..
A million per month...I guess ruonim was wrong. Instead of taking a sub of $0.01 to pay for that, it would take $0.09.
We actually know from NCSoft's quarterly earnings report that the bandwidth for ALL their games combined (Lineage 1 and 2, Aion, Guild Wars, City of Heroes and others) in Q1 2011 was about 2.7 million dollars for the quarter. GW1's income could pay for that by itself, despite not having put out paid content since 2007. We don't have a game by game breakdown, but we can see their profit, due in a large part due to subs of Aion and Lineage 1&2 was over 40 million for the quarter. Operating costs are a drop in the bucket compared to payroll, btw.
edit: Oh yeah, check out my sig.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The reason why previously F2P MMOs didn't affect P2P mmos is because there were no AAA titles that are F2P or F2P model allowed power buying [powerful items for $$] which people in the west detest.
This is about to change.
SWTOR is P2P and is competing with WoW and GW2 for player base and their subs.
GW2 is F2P [B2P is just sub category of F2P] and while it does compete to some little extent with other games - because someone might not stick to/buy GW2 and not make cash shop purchases - it isn't to such a huge degree.
WoW may lose subscrubers to GW2 because they can go "wow this game is awesome and sub-free" and so they evacuate WoW ship. Even if all of them got back to WoW most of them would still ave bought GW2 which already makes it successful in ANets eyes from business pov.
F2P games are a lot less affected by P2P games while P2P will be with release of GW2 greatly affected by F2P.
It is easier to play TOR [sub] + GW2 [no sub] than it is to play TOR [sub] + WoW [sub].
Chances GW2 won't be a successful game are extremely slim.
Now remember there can be more than 1 successful game. TOR & GW2 can be both successful.
Also Remember GW2 will likely have huge player base because it will have those who enjoy F2P and don't want to pay subs and it will have also WoW layers and TOR players who will buy the game either way cuz no sub required. Even if they play from time to time.
I dont understand how people think a B2P MMO like GW2 isnt in direct competition with P2P MMO like WoW, Rift, War, etc.
yes the payment models may be different, but what developers want, is population, not just Sub numbers as many people may assume. The higher the population, the less players feel alone, or in a empty world.
Also keep in mind, even though consumers can get GW2 and another MMO like SWTOR, that doesnt mean players can play both at the same time. which again, means the developers are fighting over player's time and interest.
For instances; had Allod been better and more quality, less P2W/IM it may been a great competitor with games like WoW and Rift. Why play Rift and WoW when you can play a quality free MMO that does the same thing pretty much?
again,,, Direct Competition.
If you disagree, prove me wrong.
Guild wars 2 just need that the people buy the game, so no.. they dont need the people to stay inside the game, unlike sub games that need players to play so they can maintain the sub, if the player is not interested in the game he will just cancel the sub, such thing is not needed on gw2.. you just can tear it away, i think that explanation is enough.
The reason why previously F2P MMOs didn't affect P2P mmos is because there were no AAA titles that are F2P or F2P model allowed power buying [powerful items for $$] which people in the west detest.
This is about to change.
SWTOR is P2P and is competing with WoW and GW2 for player base and their subs.
GW2 is F2P [B2P is just sub category of F2P] and while it does compete to some little extent with other games - because someone might not stick to/buy GW2 and not make cash shop purchases - it isn't to such a huge degree.
WoW may lose subscrubers to GW2 because they can go "wow this game is awesome and sub-free" and so they evacuate WoW ship. Even if all of them got back to WoW most of them would still ave bought GW2 which already makes it successful in ANets eyes from business pov.
F2P games are a lot less affected by P2P games while P2P will be with release of GW2 greatly affected by F2P.
It is easier to play TOR [sub] + GW2 [no sub] than it is to play TOR [sub] + WoW [sub].
Chances GW2 won't be a successful game are extremely slim.
Now remember there can be more than 1 successful game. TOR & GW2 can be both successful.
Also Remember GW2 will likely have huge player base because it will have those who enjoy F2P and don't want to pay subs and it will have also WoW layers and TOR players who will buy the game either way cuz no sub required. Even if they play from time to time.
Where did you come up with that? B2P is what every other game outside the MMO genre is, doubt anyone would pluck it under the F2P category...
The reason why previously F2P MMOs didn't affect P2P mmos is because there were no AAA titles that are F2P or F2P model allowed power buying [powerful items for $$] which people in the west detest.
This is about to change.
SWTOR is P2P and is competing with WoW and GW2 for player base and their subs.
GW2 is F2P [B2P is just sub category of F2P] and while it does compete to some little extent with other games - because someone might not stick to/buy GW2 and not make cash shop purchases - it isn't to such a huge degree.
WoW may lose subscrubers to GW2 because they can go "wow this game is awesome and sub-free" and so they evacuate WoW ship. Even if all of them got back to WoW most of them would still ave bought GW2 which already makes it successful in ANets eyes from business pov.
F2P games are a lot less affected by P2P games while P2P will be with release of GW2 greatly affected by F2P.
It is easier to play TOR [sub] + GW2 [no sub] than it is to play TOR [sub] + WoW [sub].
Chances GW2 won't be a successful game are extremely slim.
Now remember there can be more than 1 successful game. TOR & GW2 can be both successful.
Also Remember GW2 will likely have huge player base because it will have those who enjoy F2P and don't want to pay subs and it will have also WoW layers and TOR players who will buy the game either way cuz no sub required. Even if they play from time to time.
Where did you come up with that? B2P is what every other game outside the MMO genre is, doubt anyone would pluck it under the F2P category...
It's simple fact:P
Freemium, B2P etc also fall under F2P.
It's like humans, dolphins and dogs falling under mammals so it is B2P falling under F2P. Generally you got P2P and F2P with F2P having many different options for generating income some are B2P with microtransactions, some are fully F2P [no game purchase] with item shops etc. some other are freemium, more content for upgrading.
It can be in direct competition but it doesn't have to. Playing two MMO's usually implies that you pay two subscriptions, you don't in this case. Meaning people can always play GW2 "on the side" if you know what I mean. But at the same time it will probably be somewhat time consuiming so people might play GW2 over whatever else there is.
Personally it's looking like I will be paying subscription to TSW and Planetside 2 and buy GW2, but that might change depending on free time.
It can be in direct competition but it doesn't have to. Playing two MMO's usually implies that you pay two subscriptions, you don't in this case. Meaning people can always play GW2 "on the side" if you know what I mean. But at the same time it will probably be somewhat time consuiming so people might play GW2 over whatever else there is.
Personally it's looking like I will be paying subscription to TSW and Planetside 2 and buy GW2, but that might change depending on free time.
Precisely.
I suspect many will buy it just to check what's this hype all about. Others may buy it for RPG element and personal storyline and treat it like single player RPG. Some will have it as their main mmo, some as a way to break boredom.
I can say GW2 is sentenced for success at least for some time.
The reason why previously F2P MMOs didn't affect P2P mmos is because there were no AAA titles that are F2P or F2P model allowed power buying [powerful items for $$] which people in the west detest.
This is about to change.
SWTOR is P2P and is competing with WoW and GW2 for player base and their subs.
GW2 is F2P [B2P is just sub category of F2P] and while it does compete to some little extent with other games - because someone might not stick to/buy GW2 and not make cash shop purchases - it isn't to such a huge degree.
WoW may lose subscrubers to GW2 because they can go "wow this game is awesome and sub-free" and so they evacuate WoW ship. Even if all of them got back to WoW most of them would still ave bought GW2 which already makes it successful in ANets eyes from business pov.
F2P games are a lot less affected by P2P games while P2P will be with release of GW2 greatly affected by F2P.
It is easier to play TOR [sub] + GW2 [no sub] than it is to play TOR [sub] + WoW [sub].
Chances GW2 won't be a successful game are extremely slim.
Now remember there can be more than 1 successful game. TOR & GW2 can be both successful.
Also Remember GW2 will likely have huge player base because it will have those who enjoy F2P and don't want to pay subs and it will have also WoW layers and TOR players who will buy the game either way cuz no sub required. Even if they play from time to time.
Where did you come up with that? B2P is what every other game outside the MMO genre is, doubt anyone would pluck it under the F2P category...
It's simple fact:P
Freemium, B2P etc also fall under F2P.
It's like humans, dolphins and dogs falling under mammals so it is B2P falling under F2P. Generally you got P2P and F2P with F2P having many different options for generating income some are B2P with microtransactions, some are fully F2P [no game purchase] with item shops etc. some other are freemium, more content for upgrading.
Because Guild Wars 2 is not free to purchase, it cannot be considered free to play.
To me, this is a very important distinction. NCSoft would obviously love if you did buy things in their cash shop, but they don't require or really even encourage you to do so. The basic principle of B2P (at least ArenaNet's implementation of it) is that you have everything you need to play the game with only the box purchase. Even if a F2P game isn't P2W, it probably still holds you back or at the very least there is a constant reminder of the cash shop via a button on the screen or popup. In GW1, there's almost no reminder whatsoever. If there's a special there's a mention of it in the corner of the character select screen (something that based on my earlier posts you can tell I didn't even notice until recently), or there's a button to bring up the store on an NPC that you don't even need to talk to (or maybe once, to buy a bank tab with in game gold).
F2P has all kinds of negative connotations. I ask you and everyone to please stop referring to GW and GW2 as F2P. They are a one time purchase with no subscription fee, vanity cash shop and voluntary expansions.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
GW2 being B2P BUY to play cant be a F2P FREE to play. if anything is should be a sub catorory in P2P Pay to play. Now getting back to topic, GW2 will deffenly take subs from WOW. its going to be a great game, and has a large fan base. Will it have a major impact of WOW i think not. Being how its a compeley different play style from WOW. I defently think people will take advantage of GW2 no subs. and I think people will love the game, the game will have a great success but like the orgional poat says keep in mind you can have more then one game that is successful. BTW SWTOR will kick butt. SWTOR FTW
Subscription fee of 0.01$ pays your server costs and support wages. GTFO with "mmo neeeds sub".
Would like to know how you arrived at your conclusion. Mind explaining to us in detail?
lets say 10000 users. Thats 1000$ . 300$ for server, 700$ for 3 customer suport guys. And people in east will be pleased ot have work that pays that much!!!
Indie company makes 5$ soft then microsoft type corporaiton stamples with its logo and its 500$ program.
Capitalism ftw.
Oh so you are telling GTFO to other on basis of guess work and speculation.
And you give briliant arguments. Why my statements are untrue. Go check how much in russia or china people earn.
What has income level in China and Russia has to do with this, apart from a cheap racist shot?
China is the fastest growing economy, buying up half of the world's luxury and owning the largest share of US debt. On paper, China owns a few states of US on paper. Russia is less glamorous on paper, but still one of the persistent growing economy. China, Russia and a few other new countries are buying up all the gold and diamonds recently mined. They recover from the 2008 world financial crisis within a year and they are so flooded with purchasing power that the Chinese government introduce rationing on major investment assets with limited supplies, notably houses in major cities and metros.
The cost of running a server passive is different from the cost of maintaining a good and healthy MMO. There are MMOs that takes your money and practically do nothing. There are MMOs that provide 24hr GM service, account recovery services, patches every few months, additional contents every couple patches. Bug shooting continuously. Graphics enhancement, and so on. These are the successful MMOs and they cost a ton to develop, debug, maintain and enhance.
You know how much it cost them to hire professionals for various tasks? My charging rate is 300US a day after tax. And I am way low on the charging meter. How many professional from lawyers to accountant, from creative designers to business rep overseas, from market research to advertising ...
I was hoping for some hard data. I thought you work in gaming industry so maybe you know what you are talking about. But you turned out to be another comfy chair self proclaimed expert. I didn't offer any argument just asked a question and expected you to back up your claim with some real reasoning. but you got none.
computer programmer:
USA - $ 4,141
CHINA - $ 252
Price of a sandwich
USA - $1
China - $0.25
What has programmer cost to do with this argument? Do you think GW2 or ToR are going to run servers or subcontract coding in China?
By the way ruonim, you seems to miss the most important thing. Wages are low in China but productivity are actually fairly high. That is what totally killed US as a competiton. Costly but generally ineffective, with too much time fighting for petty benefits and too little effect at work or study. But I guess I digressed.
Comments
How is it all about pvp when the first pvp gameplay was released LAST WEEK? The pnly thing out by pvp is wvwvw (not all the facts) and structured pvp. It has been mentioned several time there is moee but it is not known what. And your quote about raiding, it has been proven that no you don't (original gw). Just becuase the majority does it, doesn't mean the minority does. Guild wars 2 is complete, your rewards are based on your participation every time you complete a dynamic quest.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
I was hoping for some hard data. I thought you work in gaming industry so maybe you know what you are talking about. But you turned out to be another comfy chair self proclaimed expert. I didn't offer any argument just asked a question and expected you to back up your claim with some real reasoning. but you got none.
It is untrue because the numbers you have used in your post is false.
If you think MS program isn't worth $500 (or w/e MS charges) you are more than welcomed to not actually BUY the product.
You see, capitalism works both ways.
And yes, Capitalism FTW!
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
all MMO's compete. the only ones which had different enough appeal to not compete head to head were EVE and GW. even then, any game like this competes for the player's time and money on some level.
Did they confirm that GW2 will be buy to play? It's entirely different from GW 1 and it would make more sense if it was p2p i assume.
But if it isn't p2p then that's a jackpot for me, i wont have to pay 30+ dollars every month for GW 2 and SWTOR.
And the burden of proof is always on the person making the assertion. That would be the OP.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
computer programmer:
USA - $ 4,141
CHINA - $ 252
Price of a sandwich
USA - $1
China - $0.25
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
probably one of the largest costs, would be the internet connectivity.. which is probably anything from $100,000 - $600,000 per calender month, based on traffic volume and data transfer rates, for anything more exact would need to know how many T3 lines or whatever, they were using.. but either way.. you can bet its not cheap.. then there is the hardware issue for the hosting the games themselves, server farms are not cheap.. add in maintenance/component replacement costs, and the price starts mounting pretty quickly.. for a game like WoW i can imagine that connectivity costs alone are probably far in excess of $1 million per month.. ..
Yes it is MMO and it wants players it can get so GW2 is competing against SWTOR,WOW but In the mmo market players normal just play one game maybe two and most case the second is free to play game because it has no sub.Remember reports of War,AoC and Rifts taking players away from WoW.Well GW2 wars 2 does not complete do that picking up GW2 is like picking up Dragon age,Mass Effect,Skyrim or Diablo did playing those game make you drop your mmo sub.
It is not that hard to understand Rifts,STWOR,and WoW are competing for your 15 dollars a month.GW2 is competing for your time.
-If you are one mmo gamer then GW2 is competing against WOW,TOR
-If you are one sub mmo player but you play multiple RPG then GW2 is not competing against those mmo.Guilds Wars 2 is just another RPG purchase
It is not that hard to understand.
If players are smart they pick up GW2 first because then at point they will always have GW2.Then the 15 dollars a month you are saving can be use to buy STWOR or what ever MMO you choose to play after 4 months.Simple Math
Yes they did. From the official FAQ...
Will there be a subscription fee for Guild Wars 2?
Nope. Like the original Guild Wars, there will be no subscription fee for Guild Wars 2. You just buy the game and play it online without paying a monthly fee.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I agree but this is also why many people will play both p2p and gw2
-- many players still have friends in existing games or may like to raid on the side
EQ2 fan sites
A million per month...I guess ruonim was wrong. Instead of taking a sub of $0.01 to pay for that, it would take $0.09.
We actually know from NCSoft's quarterly earnings report that the bandwidth for ALL their games combined (Lineage 1 and 2, Aion, Guild Wars, City of Heroes and others) in Q1 2011 was about 2.7 million dollars for the quarter. GW1's income could pay for that by itself, despite not having put out paid content since 2007. We don't have a game by game breakdown, but we can see their profit, due in a large part due to subs of Aion and Lineage 1&2 was over 40 million for the quarter. Operating costs are a drop in the bucket compared to payroll, btw.
edit: Oh yeah, check out my sig.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
MMOs compete to varying degree.
The reason why previously F2P MMOs didn't affect P2P mmos is because there were no AAA titles that are F2P or F2P model allowed power buying [powerful items for $$] which people in the west detest.
This is about to change.
SWTOR is P2P and is competing with WoW and GW2 for player base and their subs.
GW2 is F2P [B2P is just sub category of F2P] and while it does compete to some little extent with other games - because someone might not stick to/buy GW2 and not make cash shop purchases - it isn't to such a huge degree.
WoW may lose subscrubers to GW2 because they can go "wow this game is awesome and sub-free" and so they evacuate WoW ship. Even if all of them got back to WoW most of them would still ave bought GW2 which already makes it successful in ANets eyes from business pov.
F2P games are a lot less affected by P2P games while P2P will be with release of GW2 greatly affected by F2P.
It is easier to play TOR [sub] + GW2 [no sub] than it is to play TOR [sub] + WoW [sub].
Chances GW2 won't be a successful game are extremely slim.
Now remember there can be more than 1 successful game. TOR & GW2 can be both successful.
Also Remember GW2 will likely have huge player base because it will have those who enjoy F2P and don't want to pay subs and it will have also WoW layers and TOR players who will buy the game either way cuz no sub required. Even if they play from time to time.
Guild wars 2 just need that the people buy the game, so no.. they dont need the people to stay inside the game, unlike sub games that need players to play so they can maintain the sub, if the player is not interested in the game he will just cancel the sub, such thing is not needed on gw2.. you just can tear it away, i think that explanation is enough.
Where did you come up with that?
B2P is what every other game outside the MMO genre is, doubt anyone would pluck it under the F2P category...
It's simple fact:P
Freemium, B2P etc also fall under F2P.
It's like humans, dolphins and dogs falling under mammals so it is B2P falling under F2P. Generally you got P2P and F2P with F2P having many different options for generating income some are B2P with microtransactions, some are fully F2P [no game purchase] with item shops etc. some other are freemium, more content for upgrading.
It can be in direct competition but it doesn't have to. Playing two MMO's usually implies that you pay two subscriptions, you don't in this case. Meaning people can always play GW2 "on the side" if you know what I mean. But at the same time it will probably be somewhat time consuiming so people might play GW2 over whatever else there is.
Personally it's looking like I will be paying subscription to TSW and Planetside 2 and buy GW2, but that might change depending on free time.
Precisely.
I suspect many will buy it just to check what's this hype all about. Others may buy it for RPG element and personal storyline and treat it like single player RPG. Some will have it as their main mmo, some as a way to break boredom.
I can say GW2 is sentenced for success at least for some time.
Because Guild Wars 2 is not free to purchase, it cannot be considered free to play.
To me, this is a very important distinction. NCSoft would obviously love if you did buy things in their cash shop, but they don't require or really even encourage you to do so. The basic principle of B2P (at least ArenaNet's implementation of it) is that you have everything you need to play the game with only the box purchase. Even if a F2P game isn't P2W, it probably still holds you back or at the very least there is a constant reminder of the cash shop via a button on the screen or popup. In GW1, there's almost no reminder whatsoever. If there's a special there's a mention of it in the corner of the character select screen (something that based on my earlier posts you can tell I didn't even notice until recently), or there's a button to bring up the store on an NPC that you don't even need to talk to (or maybe once, to buy a bank tab with in game gold).
F2P has all kinds of negative connotations. I ask you and everyone to please stop referring to GW and GW2 as F2P. They are a one time purchase with no subscription fee, vanity cash shop and voluntary expansions.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Saying Buy to Play is the same as Free to Play is like saying every single non-MMO game every made has really been free to play.
GW2 being B2P BUY to play cant be a F2P FREE to play. if anything is should be a sub catorory in P2P Pay to play. Now getting back to topic, GW2 will deffenly take subs from WOW. its going to be a great game, and has a large fan base. Will it have a major impact of WOW i think not. Being how its a compeley different play style from WOW. I defently think people will take advantage of GW2 no subs. and I think people will love the game, the game will have a great success but like the orgional poat says keep in mind you can have more then one game that is successful. BTW SWTOR will kick butt. SWTOR FTW
What has income level in China and Russia has to do with this, apart from a cheap racist shot?
China is the fastest growing economy, buying up half of the world's luxury and owning the largest share of US debt. On paper, China owns a few states of US on paper. Russia is less glamorous on paper, but still one of the persistent growing economy. China, Russia and a few other new countries are buying up all the gold and diamonds recently mined. They recover from the 2008 world financial crisis within a year and they are so flooded with purchasing power that the Chinese government introduce rationing on major investment assets with limited supplies, notably houses in major cities and metros.
The cost of running a server passive is different from the cost of maintaining a good and healthy MMO. There are MMOs that takes your money and practically do nothing. There are MMOs that provide 24hr GM service, account recovery services, patches every few months, additional contents every couple patches. Bug shooting continuously. Graphics enhancement, and so on. These are the successful MMOs and they cost a ton to develop, debug, maintain and enhance.
You know how much it cost them to hire professionals for various tasks? My charging rate is 300US a day after tax. And I am way low on the charging meter. How many professional from lawyers to accountant, from creative designers to business rep overseas, from market research to advertising ...
What has programmer cost to do with this argument? Do you think GW2 or ToR are going to run servers or subcontract coding in China?
By the way ruonim, you seems to miss the most important thing. Wages are low in China but productivity are actually fairly high. That is what totally killed US as a competiton. Costly but generally ineffective, with too much time fighting for petty benefits and too little effect at work or study. But I guess I digressed.
Last game to have Chinese programmers was Final Fantasy 14...how did that turn out?