There are healing abilities in GW2 for people that like to be support classes. As a player it is up to you to play that role. Just don't expect to be the best if you stand in one spot and heal while the other healers are dodgeing and throwing in some dps at the same time. There are some abilities where the healer puts down an AOE heal that looks like a fountain and so that other players can see it and head for it if they need heals. There is healing in GW2 it's just not the same boring healing we used to have.
As I said in my above post...there are most definitely classes which can fulfill support roles in multiple ways. That just isn't ALL they can do. It will be up to the player to decide on the play style they enjoy, and they'll be able to tailor their skills to that style. Just as a general example, you could choose to be a support Guardian... you would choose a weapon or weapons which provided you with the support skills you liked, then choose your heal, utility skills, and elite skill based on the support role as well. There will also be many tweaks you can make through traits and attributes to also mold your abilities into being even more support-oriented.
It's obvious that the biggest issue is that people don't understand the class system in GW2, and saying "there's no healers" is really kind of a bad and overly simplistic explanation of a complex system. Just that one soundbite will work for some people...for others it obviously does not. I'd urge you to give the game a try, though... even as someone who ONLY ever wants to play a dedicated healer. I think you'll likely find that the flexibility in the system (and the range of abilities that each class has available) will allow not only for more active and interesting encounters/combat, but also for almost anyone to be able to play in a style they enjoy.
Oh, and you might find that you actually enjoy kicking some ass or directing traffic with your support character once in a while when needed.
I agree, it does sound a lot more complicated than just "there are no dedicated healers" and I just think maybe that's not the best way to put it. Its confusing, and seems to be putting people off unnecessarily.
As for me, no urging required, I plan on trying the game for myself, regardless
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Seriously, people need to learn new ways of supporting each other rather than watching health bars going up & down. Why can't we have fun without requiring to bring a healer with us...
To be honest, I think there will be many more ways to support your allies than in a game where you are stuck with a single role in combat.
Just as one example of the emergent play that might be possible from cross-profession combos in GW2 -
Say you put that healing fountain down on the ground (AoE heal). One of your teammates has a bow, and shoots arrows through the fountain, carrying the AoE heal to his target. Now any allies who are in melee with the target would get AoE heals from the arrows.
This is the sort of stuff that blows my mind when I think of the possibilities.
It amazes me how people get so caught on "Catch phrases" that they fail to stop and actually think about it.
You could still be a "dedicated healer" in GW2 if you wanted to. You just focus on dropping heal aoe around people who take damage, shield people who are taking damage. Stay away from the target (mobs will attack nearest). And quite a few others, we don't know all of the abilities yet so I cannot use specific examples really.
When they say there are no "dedicated healers" it does not mean someone cannot evolve and focus on doing something specific IF big word... IF they choose to.
There are no dedicated tanks either, but if someone wants to tank ALL the time they can surely do that. It does not mean that you CANNOT tank all the time if you enjoy it. Enjoy tanking? Keep your butt up next to the target all the time. You want to focus on healing more? Stay back and use your heal abilities around your teammates to keep them alive.
What the basis of GW2 is that you do not HAVE to do specific things to enjoy the game. If you play with 4 other friends and all 4 prefer playing guardians and you do to then all 5 play guardians and have fun. If one of those 4 friends prefers healing and keeping people alive then gosh darn that is all they have to do. They just use different builds and abilities on the ability bar, different weapon sets etc...
I have played a healer in Shadowbane, WoW, Aion and Rift but I will 100% play the hell out of GW2 big time.
In GW2 you can double tap a direction to ... gasp... dodge!
You will however always have people who hate change and will not ever break out of the mold of just standing in one place mashing 1.1.1.2.2.1.2.5.1.1.1.2.2.2.
Just like you will always have people just so used to "left click player bar for this heal" "right click player bar for this heal"
- I have played Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, WoW, Aion, Rift, SW Galaxies, Planetside and Guild Wars (all expacs)
Certain classes/weapon sets have abilities that do damage and a percentage of that damage heals allies in the group.
You have AOE effects that you place on the ground thats heals people if they stand in it, think the borderlands healing ability turret.
You have a self heal and other types as well.
Even if you dont target a person and spam a two second heal over and over you still have the ability to support/heal while you are doing whatever else the encounter requires.
they are doing it in SWTOR you should tell him. it's not required that the consular take the healer tree, it's entirely optional. That class isn't an all healer class either anyways since you can bring healer companions into dungeons and the consular does damage as well as heal under that tree.
play GW 1 pvp and please for the love of everything pure in this world, begin to understand that you must be creative to be successful... there are other ways to survive. Please be smart about this.
I haven't really been able to wrap myself around a no tank, no healer game.
With No Tank: You lack the control that is needed to take down mobs making everything
focus damage on the tank, which means everyone is taking loads of damage.
With No Healer: You lack the difficulty of the encounter to rely solely on self heals making dedicated
support roles infintely harder than everyone gets a heal.
The Verdict: The content will be so easy that the pros will be able to solo content which was meant for a group.
Um someone WILL be tanking, there is not just SPECIFIC "tank" like other mmo's you cannot wrap your mind around it because every other mmo out there follows the same model.... however at least you admit such.
Someone could still "Tank" if they enjoy doing it and want to do it, mob will focus on nearest person to it so person who wants to tank stands next to the mob everyone else stands further away ... and since you can DODGE if mob winds up for a big attack you ... dodge out of the way.
It will be much more involved and not just everyone stand still and mash buttons.
I cannot wait to actually need to use some skill when doing pve for a change, going to be sooooooooooo enjoyable! Being able to move around, dodge and such is going to be fun.
- I have played Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, WoW, Aion, Rift, SW Galaxies, Planetside and Guild Wars (all expacs)
It's very simple to understand... GW2 applies a system where it makes you self sustainable... to avoid stupid things like someone blaming someone else for it's death... this means that each person needs to look out for themselves, It appears to me that your friend is just a wow fanboi... and that's how he rolls... let him be... if he ever decides to try out GW2 and if the system proves to be great as it sounds... then perhaps in his little head of his... he will understand that this is a better system. Maybe.
It amazes me how people get so caught on "Catch phrases" that they fail to stop and actually think about it.
You could still be a "dedicated healer" in GW2 if you wanted to. You just focus on dropping heal aoe around people who take damage, shield people who are taking damage. Stay away from the target (mobs will attack nearest). And quite a few others, we don't know all of the abilities yet so I cannot use specific examples really.
When they say there are no "dedicated healers" it does not mean someone cannot evolve and focus on doing something specific IF big word... IF they choose to.
There are no dedicated tanks either, but if someone wants to tank ALL the time they can surely do that. It does not mean that you CANNOT tank all the time if you enjoy it. Enjoy tanking? Keep your butt up next to the target all the time. You want to focus on healing more? Stay back and use your heal abilities around your teammates to keep them alive.
What the basis of GW2 is that you do not HAVE to do specific things to enjoy the game. If you play with 4 other friends and all 4 prefer playing guardians and you do to then all 5 play guardians and have fun. If one of those 4 friends prefers healing and keeping people alive then gosh darn that is all they have to do. They just use different builds and abilities on the ability bar, different weapon sets etc...
I have played a healer in Shadowbane, WoW, Aion and Rift but I will 100% play the hell out of GW2 big time.
In GW2 you can double tap a direction to ... gasp... dodge!
You will however always have people who hate change and will not ever break out of the mold of just standing in one place mashing 1.1.1.2.2.1.2.5.1.1.1.2.2.2.
Just like you will always have people just so used to "left click player bar for this heal" "right click player bar for this heal"
The fact is if you wanted to play a "Dedicated support character" you could. But the thing is, if you want to be known as a competent player, you will have to do more than just spam support skills, you will have to deal damage alongside healing and supporting your allies.
I haven't really been able to wrap myself around a no tank, no healer game.
With No Tank: You lack the control that is needed to take down mobs making everything
focus damage on the tank, which means everyone is taking loads of damage.
With No Healer: You lack the difficulty of the encounter to rely solely on self heals making dedicated
support roles infintely harder than everyone gets a heal.
The Verdict: The content will be so easy that the pros will be able to solo content which was meant for a group.
If you trivialized it to the point that it will be easily solo'ed, I guess you haven't really read into the game or checked out any of the gameplay footage. Because this is my break down
No tank: There is no one dedicated person who is responsible for you avoiding damage, and rely on more than 1 person to control the boss/adds during a fight giving more responsibility to the whole party/player base instead of 1-2 people.
No healer: Less people in a role that are "reactive" and are directly responsible for you surviving. No healers mean more mechanics that focus on team work, and a more enjoyable, and complex fight.
So if you think that because there are no tanks or healers, content will be easy; you are sadly mistaken my friend. Tanks and heals are from an old form of stat driven games that take the reliance out of all the players, and places it on a few while others just have to do high dps and avoid fire. WoW is trying to expand on this, but you can only go so far with such an old game. Try soloing Tequatl the Sunless if you think the content was designed to be easy.
they are doing it in SWTOR you should tell him. it's not required that the consular take the healer tree, it's entirely optional. That class isn't an all healer class either anyways since you can bring healer companions into dungeons and the consular does damage as well as heal under that tree.
Somehow I doubt that companion healers will be adequate in a challenging dungeon. Maybe if one is out leveled in there but I just don't see em ever being adequate as healer duty solo. Every companion I've ever had in any game I had horrendous stupidicy that caused me more deaths than help. Anyways thought companions weren't gonna be allowed in FPs, guess they changed their mind on the matter. Sound more and more like an MMORPG that you can solo everything in.
Anyways as far as the whole no holy trinity thing it's not just that ANet is getting rid of it but more of redefining how the mechanics of an encounter go. Holy trinity is... DPS, someone takes dmg, someone heals dmg while ANet is redefining it as support instead of healing, control instead of tanking, and dps... well dps. Their article is intresting about their "dynamic combat" as they termed it and has me intrigued, http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/. The Holy Trinity has gotten pretty bad as you get asshat Tanks, finiky healers, and dumbshit "Huntards" that ends up pulling people's dead weight all through the dungeon.
I think the biggest problem in these cases is the assumption that MMOs need a healer. There is a knee-jerk reaction many people have to things they don't know about or understand, and that is to avoid it. This is the case with just about every thing that deviates strongly from the established norm. This happens in all fields, and it totally understandable. People like this will not get it until it is live and they see it in action enough times to believe it, if they ever give it a shot. Many won't. Such is life.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The fact is, the people who can't wrap their head around this system believe that the developer (arenanet) isn't developing the game around the idea of not having a hard trinity. I can see several reasons why they may think this way, for instance; other developers have tried it and have failed, some have tried it only to a limited degree because they never could break away from the trinity.
What people should know is that GW2 has been played by several critics, skeptics, pessimists and enthusiasts, they've played dungeons and dynamic events, they've played hard mode dungeons and epic dynamic events and they all seem to say the same thing. It works.
Dude, if your buddy hasn't done the research, he's just one of those "I'm going to snap judgement on something I know little about." Just tell him it's not a "No Healer" game, (and that I think is a horrible thing to attach to the game) Its a "Roleless" game, therefore pretty much all the classes can do whatever the player wants, be whatever they want...within reason. You obviously cannot spec your Warrior to be a dedicated healer, but I'm sure you can make him extremely support orriented. Your friend needs to understand that you can be healer if you want, it's just not constricted to that. Try to drop the knowledge, and if he's unreceptive, tell him to cling vehemently to his "Holy-trinity" game, he won't except any sort of revolution, let him be, approach a less closeminded gamer co-worker, rinse and repeat. It is the cure for the WoW clones that have been for the better part of the Decade. Hopefully people embrace the ingenuitive change. I surely hope so. I don't hope this is the WoW killer, because I don't want kids in my game saying "What, no healer, this is stupid *bitch bitch bitch.*" So if you can enlighten them, show them a potenially great game and a deviation from the norm,if they repudiate without giving it any chance, move on. You don't want that kind of person in your community do you?
So my coworker was looking at my phone while I watched some gw2 pvp. He said that looks cool but I don't see a healer. So I told him there are no dedicated healers in this game. So his reply? That's dumb so how am I gonna survive in the game. I told him that you are self reliant and mostly depend on yourself. He said that's stupid why am I gonna play a game where im going to die all the time im not playing that dumb game and proceeded to list several(noobish) reasons why wow is better and told me to play dc universe instead. Discuss.
That's completely his right. In a way, I completely understand his thinking. If everyone has the same basic role, DPS and self healing, what's the point of grouping?
When you are in the heat of battle and have so much to keep track of, and particularly in this game where you can now move away from and dodge attacks, there are going to be some players that don't have coordination/ability or even the desire to have to also keep track of their own health, that's what the dedicated healers role has always been there for.
Well lets take WoW in consideration, If you take tanks and heals out the game, what do you have? Still mostly DPS. And the DPS roll is basically "I do damage, sit here and faceroll, move out of fire and I get lewt". Now yes there are mechanics that focus on you doing more than DPS, some even involving team work and organization and coordination, but thats about it. Your job is just to do damage and you don't even have to really try to live because someone else makes sure you do. If you play a game like God Of War, is there a tank there to help you or a healer for you to get health? No, you just do damage and dodge attacks and rely on mechanics for your survival, including self healing to an extent. I know that is a single player game with RPG elements, but think about a game where you are no longer supported directly through someone taking all of the damage or refilling your health.
Now, yes there are players that don't have a high reaction time or aren't as skilled as some others, but that is what Content Scaling is for. Things should not be made easier overall just to accomidate those who are less skilled, let them tackle less difficult content and when they do get better they can move up. Because I'm pretty sure it gets boring beating God Of War on normal difficulty, you wanna move it up higher and challenge yourself.
Every game needs a class which solely exists to support the other classes, to bear the brunt of group annoyance and to take full blame when a party wipes.
"Hlep, tanking damge!"
"HEAL!!11"
"FFS I AM DOWN!"
"I died gusy res me plx ..."
"Res?!"
"..."
"FFS RES !!!!1"
Or the intelligent, knowledgeable party member (which is even more annoying):
" *sighs* I am down as well. The tank needs 1500 hp per second AT LEAST when Herpaderpa Oneshot enrages and you have to stand on the pink triangle and jump up when he facepalms. You started healing support and that is why we wiped ... Sod this. Sorry guys, I am not going to run this dungeon with a baffoon for a healer. *logs off* "
Yeah but we should just cut out the bullshit and call it the "scapegoat" class rather than the "healer".
But I kind of like GW2's approach, there really are a number of defensive support builds either through direct shielding (guardian and some others) or through CC. But at the same time their is a strong reliance on your using your own ability to survive.
Thus with GW2 to really get a team that survives well you need both yourself and your team to play well. Rather than putting it all on one person.
Global Agenda is kind of like this. They do have a dedicated healer though with the medic. And the medics do get blamed all the time for stuff that is not their fault. But smart players understand that staying alive is on both sides. A medic can't keep an assault who charages into turrets without using his shields alive.
Some assaults think you can but the game is actually pretty fun when you realize its take both sides of the equation.
I suspect GW2 will work out this way and that they are making a smart move by claiming "everyone" is a healer. In a sense it is more psychological than anything else. There are clearly some builds that are more defensive or support oriented than others.
But as can be seen in GA as soon as one class is labled the scapegoat general execution of the gameplay goes out the window. I can mess people up and do a ton of healing on my GA medic and have regularly done so in the past. But as soon as people seen the green beam they think you are their bitch and they think they can do anything they want and survive.
Even if GW2 had a class that turned out to be a good healer they should still claim their is no such thing.
Your friend has a point...GW2 problems that look good in theory are: no dedicated healer, no open world pvp confrontation with enemy faction, the active dodging that you have to dodge attacks manually, and maybe more stuff that looks good in paper...but in reality might be bad.
People in general are used to a classic mmo like wow, people are lazy, they dont want to dodge attacks manualy...
People want to choose a class, thats why there are classes to choose from healer tank, dps etc...if all can do everything something is wrong.
I thing swtor that is a wow clone but by the looks improved in every way will have more players even with monthly fees.
I can understand why some people don't like playing a tank or healer but also some do because lets face it they are the most important roles and are not as overcrowded as other dps classes.
A more sandboxy approach (learn skills by training!) would have been so much better. FPS like cs doesn't fit with MMORPGS (same with other FPS influences) but I agree I havent played the game yet, so its hard to make a final claim.
Because of the no death penalty and everyone can do everything I fear this will lead to a bad bad community.
According to some posts even 5 engineers could complete a dungeon, so doesn't that make dedicated roles less important? Some just don't consider dps dps dps fun and want more important roles.
Anyway given Tera being published by Frogster, AA still at least a year away I think GW 2 is still far ahead of solofests like Biowaresstoryhammer.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play." "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I didn't read anywhere where the developers said there isn't going to be abilities that allow players to heal others at all. They will be in the game. Just put a bunch of healbot/support abilities on your hotbar. The only thing players might be upset about is that just because they are a "healer" doesn't give them an instant ticket to content. Players will still appreciate any heals you give them, but now you can't be a bitch and still get into groups.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
So my coworker was looking at my phone while I watched some gw2 pvp. He said that looks cool but I don't see a healer. So I told him there are no dedicated healers in this game. So his reply? That's dumb so how am I gonna survive in the game. I told him that you are self reliant and mostly depend on yourself. He said that's stupid why am I gonna play a game where im going to die all the time im not playing that dumb game and proceeded to list several(noobish) reasons why wow is better and told me to play dc universe instead. Discuss.
I think your friend would have hated Asheron's Call and Ultima Online. In both those games healing was something everyone had access too. You just had to choose the skills and/or take healing kits.
I think, too, that that may be what some older folks mean by "having skills" at playing MMOs. You had to balance not just your one little tiny part but instead be able to crowd control, deal damage, manage agro BY switiching targets and dealing damage AND oh by the way heal yourself too.
It was fun, for sure.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Comments
There are healing abilities in GW2 for people that like to be support classes. As a player it is up to you to play that role. Just don't expect to be the best if you stand in one spot and heal while the other healers are dodgeing and throwing in some dps at the same time. There are some abilities where the healer puts down an AOE heal that looks like a fountain and so that other players can see it and head for it if they need heals. There is healing in GW2 it's just not the same boring healing we used to have.
My theme song.
Lets see a full group ready to go, but we have to spam the LFG tool "looking for a healer". The end of dedicated healers is a great idea.
Does anyone remember in the heyday of GW1 when many healers wanted to be paid to join your group?
I agree, it does sound a lot more complicated than just "there are no dedicated healers" and I just think maybe that's not the best way to put it. Its confusing, and seems to be putting people off unnecessarily.
As for me, no urging required, I plan on trying the game for myself, regardless
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Seriously, people need to learn new ways of supporting each other rather than watching health bars going up & down. Why can't we have fun without requiring to bring a healer with us...
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To be honest, I think there will be many more ways to support your allies than in a game where you are stuck with a single role in combat.
Just as one example of the emergent play that might be possible from cross-profession combos in GW2 -
Say you put that healing fountain down on the ground (AoE heal). One of your teammates has a bow, and shoots arrows through the fountain, carrying the AoE heal to his target. Now any allies who are in melee with the target would get AoE heals from the arrows.
This is the sort of stuff that blows my mind when I think of the possibilities.
It amazes me how people get so caught on "Catch phrases" that they fail to stop and actually think about it.
You could still be a "dedicated healer" in GW2 if you wanted to. You just focus on dropping heal aoe around people who take damage, shield people who are taking damage. Stay away from the target (mobs will attack nearest). And quite a few others, we don't know all of the abilities yet so I cannot use specific examples really.
When they say there are no "dedicated healers" it does not mean someone cannot evolve and focus on doing something specific IF big word... IF they choose to.
There are no dedicated tanks either, but if someone wants to tank ALL the time they can surely do that. It does not mean that you CANNOT tank all the time if you enjoy it. Enjoy tanking? Keep your butt up next to the target all the time. You want to focus on healing more? Stay back and use your heal abilities around your teammates to keep them alive.
What the basis of GW2 is that you do not HAVE to do specific things to enjoy the game. If you play with 4 other friends and all 4 prefer playing guardians and you do to then all 5 play guardians and have fun. If one of those 4 friends prefers healing and keeping people alive then gosh darn that is all they have to do. They just use different builds and abilities on the ability bar, different weapon sets etc...
I have played a healer in Shadowbane, WoW, Aion and Rift but I will 100% play the hell out of GW2 big time.
In GW2 you can double tap a direction to ... gasp... dodge!
You will however always have people who hate change and will not ever break out of the mold of just standing in one place mashing 1.1.1.2.2.1.2.5.1.1.1.2.2.2.
Just like you will always have people just so used to "left click player bar for this heal" "right click player bar for this heal"
- I have played Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, WoW, Aion, Rift, SW Galaxies, Planetside and Guild Wars (all expacs)
I haven't really been able to wrap myself around a no tank, no healer game.
With No Tank: You lack the control that is needed to take down mobs making everything
focus damage on the tank, which means everyone is taking loads of damage.
With No Healer: You lack the difficulty of the encounter to rely solely on self heals making dedicated
support roles infintely harder than everyone gets a heal.
The Verdict: The content will be so easy that the pros will be able to solo content which was meant for a group.
You can support/heal in GW2...
Certain classes/weapon sets have abilities that do damage and a percentage of that damage heals allies in the group.
You have AOE effects that you place on the ground thats heals people if they stand in it, think the borderlands healing ability turret.
You have a self heal and other types as well.
Even if you dont target a person and spam a two second heal over and over you still have the ability to support/heal while you are doing whatever else the encounter requires.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
I'm so tired of relying on healers, in both PvP and PvE (dungeons and what have you).
I'm stoked about being able to look after myself (mostly) with dodging and self heals.
Can't wait.
they are doing it in SWTOR you should tell him. it's not required that the consular take the healer tree, it's entirely optional. That class isn't an all healer class either anyways since you can bring healer companions into dungeons and the consular does damage as well as heal under that tree.
play GW 1 pvp and please for the love of everything pure in this world, begin to understand that you must be creative to be successful... there are other ways to survive. Please be smart about this.
Um someone WILL be tanking, there is not just SPECIFIC "tank" like other mmo's you cannot wrap your mind around it because every other mmo out there follows the same model.... however at least you admit such.
Someone could still "Tank" if they enjoy doing it and want to do it, mob will focus on nearest person to it so person who wants to tank stands next to the mob everyone else stands further away ... and since you can DODGE if mob winds up for a big attack you ... dodge out of the way.
It will be much more involved and not just everyone stand still and mash buttons.
I cannot wait to actually need to use some skill when doing pve for a change, going to be sooooooooooo enjoyable! Being able to move around, dodge and such is going to be fun.
- I have played Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, WoW, Aion, Rift, SW Galaxies, Planetside and Guild Wars (all expacs)
It's very simple to understand... GW2 applies a system where it makes you self sustainable... to avoid stupid things like someone blaming someone else for it's death... this means that each person needs to look out for themselves, It appears to me that your friend is just a wow fanboi... and that's how he rolls... let him be... if he ever decides to try out GW2 and if the system proves to be great as it sounds... then perhaps in his little head of his... he will understand that this is a better system. Maybe.
The fact is if you wanted to play a "Dedicated support character" you could. But the thing is, if you want to be known as a competent player, you will have to do more than just spam support skills, you will have to deal damage alongside healing and supporting your allies.
This is not a game.
If you trivialized it to the point that it will be easily solo'ed, I guess you haven't really read into the game or checked out any of the gameplay footage. Because this is my break down
No tank: There is no one dedicated person who is responsible for you avoiding damage, and rely on more than 1 person to control the boss/adds during a fight giving more responsibility to the whole party/player base instead of 1-2 people.
No healer: Less people in a role that are "reactive" and are directly responsible for you surviving. No healers mean more mechanics that focus on team work, and a more enjoyable, and complex fight.
So if you think that because there are no tanks or healers, content will be easy; you are sadly mistaken my friend. Tanks and heals are from an old form of stat driven games that take the reliance out of all the players, and places it on a few while others just have to do high dps and avoid fire. WoW is trying to expand on this, but you can only go so far with such an old game. Try soloing Tequatl the Sunless if you think the content was designed to be easy.
Somehow I doubt that companion healers will be adequate in a challenging dungeon. Maybe if one is out leveled in there but I just don't see em ever being adequate as healer duty solo. Every companion I've ever had in any game I had horrendous stupidicy that caused me more deaths than help. Anyways thought companions weren't gonna be allowed in FPs, guess they changed their mind on the matter. Sound more and more like an MMORPG that you can solo everything in.
Anyways as far as the whole no holy trinity thing it's not just that ANet is getting rid of it but more of redefining how the mechanics of an encounter go. Holy trinity is... DPS, someone takes dmg, someone heals dmg while ANet is redefining it as support instead of healing, control instead of tanking, and dps... well dps. Their article is intresting about their "dynamic combat" as they termed it and has me intrigued, http://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/combat/healing-death/. The Holy Trinity has gotten pretty bad as you get asshat Tanks, finiky healers, and dumbshit "Huntards" that ends up pulling people's dead weight all through the dungeon.
I think the biggest problem in these cases is the assumption that MMOs need a healer. There is a knee-jerk reaction many people have to things they don't know about or understand, and that is to avoid it. This is the case with just about every thing that deviates strongly from the established norm. This happens in all fields, and it totally understandable. People like this will not get it until it is live and they see it in action enough times to believe it, if they ever give it a shot. Many won't. Such is life.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
WTF? No subscription fee?
The fact is, the people who can't wrap their head around this system believe that the developer (arenanet) isn't developing the game around the idea of not having a hard trinity. I can see several reasons why they may think this way, for instance; other developers have tried it and have failed, some have tried it only to a limited degree because they never could break away from the trinity.
What people should know is that GW2 has been played by several critics, skeptics, pessimists and enthusiasts, they've played dungeons and dynamic events, they've played hard mode dungeons and epic dynamic events and they all seem to say the same thing. It works.
This is not a game.
Dude, if your buddy hasn't done the research, he's just one of those "I'm going to snap judgement on something I know little about." Just tell him it's not a "No Healer" game, (and that I think is a horrible thing to attach to the game) Its a "Roleless" game, therefore pretty much all the classes can do whatever the player wants, be whatever they want...within reason. You obviously cannot spec your Warrior to be a dedicated healer, but I'm sure you can make him extremely support orriented. Your friend needs to understand that you can be healer if you want, it's just not constricted to that. Try to drop the knowledge, and if he's unreceptive, tell him to cling vehemently to his "Holy-trinity" game, he won't except any sort of revolution, let him be, approach a less closeminded gamer co-worker, rinse and repeat. It is the cure for the WoW clones that have been for the better part of the Decade. Hopefully people embrace the ingenuitive change. I surely hope so. I don't hope this is the WoW killer, because I don't want kids in my game saying "What, no healer, this is stupid *bitch bitch bitch.*" So if you can enlighten them, show them a potenially great game and a deviation from the norm,if they repudiate without giving it any chance, move on. You don't want that kind of person in your community do you?
Well lets take WoW in consideration, If you take tanks and heals out the game, what do you have? Still mostly DPS. And the DPS roll is basically "I do damage, sit here and faceroll, move out of fire and I get lewt". Now yes there are mechanics that focus on you doing more than DPS, some even involving team work and organization and coordination, but thats about it. Your job is just to do damage and you don't even have to really try to live because someone else makes sure you do. If you play a game like God Of War, is there a tank there to help you or a healer for you to get health? No, you just do damage and dodge attacks and rely on mechanics for your survival, including self healing to an extent. I know that is a single player game with RPG elements, but think about a game where you are no longer supported directly through someone taking all of the damage or refilling your health.
Now, yes there are players that don't have a high reaction time or aren't as skilled as some others, but that is what Content Scaling is for. Things should not be made easier overall just to accomidate those who are less skilled, let them tackle less difficult content and when they do get better they can move up. Because I'm pretty sure it gets boring beating God Of War on normal difficulty, you wanna move it up higher and challenge yourself.
Yeah but we should just cut out the bullshit and call it the "scapegoat" class rather than the "healer".
But I kind of like GW2's approach, there really are a number of defensive support builds either through direct shielding (guardian and some others) or through CC. But at the same time their is a strong reliance on your using your own ability to survive.
Thus with GW2 to really get a team that survives well you need both yourself and your team to play well. Rather than putting it all on one person.
Global Agenda is kind of like this. They do have a dedicated healer though with the medic. And the medics do get blamed all the time for stuff that is not their fault. But smart players understand that staying alive is on both sides. A medic can't keep an assault who charages into turrets without using his shields alive.
Some assaults think you can but the game is actually pretty fun when you realize its take both sides of the equation.
I suspect GW2 will work out this way and that they are making a smart move by claiming "everyone" is a healer. In a sense it is more psychological than anything else. There are clearly some builds that are more defensive or support oriented than others.
But as can be seen in GA as soon as one class is labled the scapegoat general execution of the gameplay goes out the window. I can mess people up and do a ton of healing on my GA medic and have regularly done so in the past. But as soon as people seen the green beam they think you are their bitch and they think they can do anything they want and survive.
Even if GW2 had a class that turned out to be a good healer they should still claim their is no such thing.
Your friend has a point...GW2 problems that look good in theory are: no dedicated healer, no open world pvp confrontation with enemy faction, the active dodging that you have to dodge attacks manually, and maybe more stuff that looks good in paper...but in reality might be bad.
People in general are used to a classic mmo like wow, people are lazy, they dont want to dodge attacks manualy...
People want to choose a class, thats why there are classes to choose from healer tank, dps etc...if all can do everything something is wrong.
I thing swtor that is a wow clone but by the looks improved in every way will have more players even with monthly fees.
I can understand why some people don't like playing a tank or healer but also some do because lets face it they are the most important roles and are not as overcrowded as other dps classes.
A more sandboxy approach (learn skills by training!) would have been so much better. FPS like cs doesn't fit with MMORPGS (same with other FPS influences) but I agree I havent played the game yet, so its hard to make a final claim.
Because of the no death penalty and everyone can do everything I fear this will lead to a bad bad community.
According to some posts even 5 engineers could complete a dungeon, so doesn't that make dedicated roles less important? Some just don't consider dps dps dps fun and want more important roles.
Anyway given Tera being published by Frogster, AA still at least a year away I think GW 2 is still far ahead of solofests like Biowaresstoryhammer.
We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!
"Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
"Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."
I didn't read anywhere where the developers said there isn't going to be abilities that allow players to heal others at all. They will be in the game. Just put a bunch of healbot/support abilities on your hotbar. The only thing players might be upset about is that just because they are a "healer" doesn't give them an instant ticket to content. Players will still appreciate any heals you give them, but now you can't be a bitch and still get into groups.
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I think your friend would have hated Asheron's Call and Ultima Online. In both those games healing was something everyone had access too. You just had to choose the skills and/or take healing kits.
I think, too, that that may be what some older folks mean by "having skills" at playing MMOs. You had to balance not just your one little tiny part but instead be able to crowd control, deal damage, manage agro BY switiching targets and dealing damage AND oh by the way heal yourself too.
It was fun, for sure.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez