For me, raids have too many people. I can handle (watch over) about 8 people in a group max. More than that and I cannot keep up with everyone. I usually play a support role, so watching the raid member's bars usually takes precedence over watching the monster's bars. All in all, raids are just too busy for my enjoyment. I don't care if the game has raids. When the raiding interferes with my own gameplay, then it is an issue for me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Unimaginative game design, really. The only difference is the mobs in a Raid only really have massive pools of HP and apply massive amounts of damage. Bosses? Usually massive AoE damage.
/yawn
If you say this, you haven't raided much. This may apply to certain bosses, but I ve seen really complex bosses where everybody was extremelly busy doing tons of different things at the same time. I ve been raid leader in some games and having to coordinate a full raid when fighting some bosses has left me really exhausted. There's tons of stuff going on at the same time and you have to pay attention to everything.
trolololol at complex... If raids were complex actually people wouldnt play them because they wouldnt be able to win...
The level of complexity is one that even an 8 year old can see through
As i grow older and in my life have less/no time for raiding i changed my playstyle. When i was younger and seemed to have all the time in the world it was great to raid, to get all those people together coordinating to overcome a great challenge. Most of us even met in life and became fast friends, i do miss that. I feel now that even though i may not be at the top of the game gear and content wise i can still have fun without raids.
I like a good raid every now and then especially if I get a weekend off. However, I don't feel that MMO's should use raids as the only exclusive way to get the best gear. Unfortunately, almost all of them do. MMOs need to bring back exploration and discovery which should be keys to elite gear. Afterall, the elite gear had to have been made by someone or it wouldn't exist. Crafters should have the opportunity to craft with rare discovered items although I don't mind rare crafting materials being raid loot drops too.
Almost every user created poll on this forum has very poorly thought out choices, and this poll is a prime example of that.
I like to raid if all of the following is true: there is so much raid content that it would take many months to do it all; the developing company actively makes enough new raiding content to keep me from finishing it; the game is designed in such a way that the purpose of raiding is to engage in high quality, very challenging, dungeon crawling with large groups of people; the purpose of raiding is not gear grinding, status grinding, achievement grinding, or any other kind of ridiculousness; the PVE mechanics of the game are well designed and allow for skill and strategy to prevail; and the end game community is friendly and constructive, as opposed to elitist and jerkish.
Your poll isn't sufficient as it currently stands, since I only like raiding if those conditions are true. If those conditions aren't true, then the game better have some kind of other long term, satisfactory end game or else there is no point in playing at max level.
You know what? I'm standing behind my poll.
The poll is about do you like RAIDING. It is not about all of the little things that you associate with raiding like a gear grind, repetition, general PvE mechanics.
You just need to answer the simple question of do you like raiding? In other words, do you like doing dungeons with a large group of players in an organized fashion? All of the little associations you add are irrelevant. You're never going to find a poll that caters to every single respondant exactly. The best you can do is ask a single question and provide enough answers to reflect how much love, hate, or indifference respondants have to the question.
You are of course, free to comment about the conditions you like raiding under...that's the point of leaving a comment.
Thats some poor choices or reasons. There is no choice for me along with a majority. Do I like raiding? Yes I like raiding but I loathe the gear grind which is why I don't raid.
Will you people stop linking Gear Grind to Raiding....!!!!
In WoW for example,,, everything you dom, not just Raiding, leads up to some sort of Gear Reward! Stop trying to justify your hatred for Raidings due to Gear Grinding.
Because clearly you dont seem to have a problem with Gear Grinding Mobs/Party Dungeons/ Quest/ anything else non raiding
LOL I know for real. Thanks for posting this.
I don't know why some people here can't realize that raiding as an activity does not have to have anything to do with a gear grind. It's just doing a dungeon with a large group, that's it.
I personally don't like raiding because well...I don't like raiding. It has nothing to do with the gear grind. I just don't like the time committment and the organization required; it also makes me feel less important because I'm basically just a cog in a big machine.
Because any raiding involves
1. Geargrind cycle, repeated every 6 months
2. Repitive same encounter over and over and over again
3. Rolling over gear, dealing with DKP systems
4. Too much time commitment in doing said raid and in putting one together.
As to why I'm attaching raiding to WoW's raiding is because eveyone models after that raid format. Those elements I have listed has quickly changed people opinions to "liking raids" to "loathe raids." These elements have totally changed what raiding was/should be into somethign it's not and into a tool for developers to use to maintain subscribers via a timesink mechanic.
Your poll puts ones willingness to play a game soley on opinion of raids which is highly faulsable because at it's current state raiding has too man cons attached to it that people are turned away from it.
A better poll would be "To make raiding more intresting/ejoyable, eliminate/modify X factor."
That's not really what I was going for.
I'm just asking if you like raiding for the pros and cons of the raiding experience itself.
For example, I don't like raiding because I feel like the large group demands too much organization and dimishes the impact of each individual player. These dislikes stem from what raiding is and always will be based on its definition. No matter what factors you eliminate, I will never like raiding.
I will never like raiding because I don't like raiding for what it is, regardless of if you have to grind raids for gear. If you enjoy raiding, but you don't like having to grind raids, then you enjoy raiding. The poll is not about if you like how raiding is currently implemented in games. It is about if you like doing dungeons with large organized groups (raiding).
May I request a "Been There, Done That" poll response?
I enjoy raiding, while I'm raiding; yet often find myself unwilling to get back on the merry-go-round again if I've taken a break from it. It's a sort of "I know how much free time this is going to eat up, do I want to give up that free time again?"
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I enjoy raiding, as in I enjoy getting all the gear and playing with larges groups of people. But if there is one thing that being in college has taught me (Sophomore now) its that I do not have near enough time to be active in that sort of thing. Between homework and my girlfriend there just isnt enough daylight to fit it all in appropriately.
Oh how I miss the days when things were simple. You know the days, those when you get home from school and ignore your homework to play WoW or whatever for 8 hours then just listen real hard in class so that you can at least get a B. Oh those were the days
Thats some poor choices or reasons. There is no choice for me along with a majority. Do I like raiding? Yes I like raiding but I loathe the gear grind which is why I don't raid.
Will you people stop linking Gear Grind to Raiding....!!!!
In WoW for example,,, everything you dom, not just Raiding, leads up to some sort of Gear Reward! Stop trying to justify your hatred for Raidings due to Gear Grinding.
Because clearly you dont seem to have a problem with Gear Grinding Mobs/Party Dungeons/ Quest/ anything else non raiding
Most quests, party dungeouns,mobs don't take upwards of 3 or 4 hours. If they did, you take a break and come back. Raids take more organizing and time. It's a grind like the others but different in its own right still.
I enjoy raiding, as in I enjoy getting all the gear and playing with larges groups of people. But if there is one thing that being in college has taught me (Sophomore now) its that I do not have near enough time to be active in that sort of thing. Between homework and my girlfriend there just isnt enough daylight to fit it all in appropriately.
Oh how I miss the days when things were simple. You know the days, those when you get home from school and ignore your homework to play WoW or whatever for 8 hours then just listen real hard in class so that you can at least get a B. Oh those were the days
Bell curve is a ubiquitous fact of life and an ever present occurence in statistics!
hahah pretty interesting huh .
While so many people have been bashing this poll, no one seems to realize that the answers we created to gauge the general consensus of like or dislike or raiding. And what do you know? The results are easy to read and you can just glance at the poll and see the results without trying to figure out what several cryptic answers like "I like raiding, but only if certain conditions are met" really mean.
Polls should not be designed to give everyone their ideal answer. They should be designed to answer some kind of question and display results in a clear and revealing way. The question I asked was "how does the community feel about raiding?" And the results seem obvious, it's a pretty even split with slightly more disliking it.
I enjoy raiding, as in I enjoy getting all the gear and playing with larges groups of people. But if there is one thing that being in college has taught me (Sophomore now) its that I do not have near enough time to be active in that sort of thing. Between homework and my girlfriend there just isnt enough daylight to fit it all in appropriately.
Oh how I miss the days when things were simple. You know the days, those when you get home from school and ignore your homework to play WoW or whatever for 8 hours then just listen real hard in class so that you can at least get a B. Oh those were the days
Kinda sad actually.
Nah, still graduated with a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale. All it takes is figuing the system out.
I enjoy raiding, as in I enjoy getting all the gear and playing with larges groups of people. But if there is one thing that being in college has taught me (Sophomore now) its that I do not have near enough time to be active in that sort of thing. Between homework and my girlfriend there just isnt enough daylight to fit it all in appropriately.
Oh how I miss the days when things were simple. You know the days, those when you get home from school and ignore your homework to play WoW or whatever for 8 hours then just listen real hard in class so that you can at least get a B. Oh those were the days
Kinda sad actually.
Nah, still graduated with a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale. All it takes is figuing the system out.
I enjoy raiding, as in I enjoy getting all the gear and playing with larges groups of people. But if there is one thing that being in college has taught me (Sophomore now) its that I do not have near enough time to be active in that sort of thing. Between homework and my girlfriend there just isnt enough daylight to fit it all in appropriately.
Oh how I miss the days when things were simple. You know the days, those when you get home from school and ignore your homework to play WoW or whatever for 8 hours then just listen real hard in class so that you can at least get a B. Oh those were the days
Kinda sad actually.
Nah, still graduated with a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale. All it takes is figuing the system out.
NICE!!!................but I meant playing WoW.
Oh haha. Yeah, that part is kind of sad. But for me the golden WoW is pre BC WoW when it was still kind of good. Still trying to find a new home. Really hoping for GW2, TSW, SWTOR, and AA.
Almost every user created poll on this forum has very poorly thought out choices, and this poll is a prime example of that.
I like to raid if all of the following is true: there is so much raid content that it would take many months to do it all; the developing company actively makes enough new raiding content to keep me from finishing it; the game is designed in such a way that the purpose of raiding is to engage in high quality, very challenging, dungeon crawling with large groups of people; the purpose of raiding is not gear grinding, status grinding, achievement grinding, or any other kind of ridiculousness; the PVE mechanics of the game are well designed and allow for skill and strategy to prevail; and the end game community is friendly and constructive, as opposed to elitist and jerkish.
Your poll isn't sufficient as it currently stands, since I only like raiding if those conditions are true. If those conditions aren't true, then the game better have some kind of other long term, satisfactory end game or else there is no point in playing at max level.
You know what? I'm standing behind my poll.
The poll is about do you like RAIDING. It is not about all of the little things that you associate with raiding like a gear grind, repetition, general PvE mechanics.
You just need to answer the simple question of do you like raiding? In other words, do you like doing dungeons with a large group of players in an organized fashion? All of the little associations you add are irrelevant. You're never going to find a poll that caters to every single respondant exactly. The best you can do is ask a single question and provide enough answers to reflect how much love, hate, or indifference respondants have to the question.
You are of course, free to comment about the conditions you like raiding under...that's the point of leaving a comment.
Not at all surprised by the results nor with the fact that most of the big complaints against the poll have been from people who like raiding, but X.
What I find sad is that only a few comments have suggested that raiding could some how be different, that it does not need certain things attached to it like gear or end game to make it an interesting form of game play. I'm not sure if that speaks more to the lack of developer imagination or to peoples honest dislike of raiding.
i raided for over 4 years in WoW and came from 'loved raiding' to almost 'hated raiding' . My problem with it is not time needed for it, I could still find it. My issues are 2 :
- can't stand dramas that come with it anymore, my Aion or WAR guilds atmosphere were so different to WoW or Rift, much less conflicts over petty stupid things like loot , much less 'dramatic' .
- don't want to have my 'fun time' organized on schedule and you cant do raid instance without it.
In EQ, EQ2, WoW, and Lotro I found my "level" in this discussion.
At relatively low level I found groups of friends, did low level content (much more solo stuff in WoW, but whatever). Worked my way up. The content was generally of the sort that modest sanity on the part of the players was sufficient to do most stuff. Sometimes, rarely, you had to work a little harder but it wasn't that bad. In Wow you could stumble around like a drunk and do the content, of course.
At some point in each game, the groups I found changed to guilds. And then the guilds changed to raiding organizations. In WoW it was because we hit max level, in the other games it was significantly lower.
And then we had the following: nearly mandantory scheduling; gear requirements; organization on a pseudo military scale; and numerous opportunitiies for awful consequences resulting from the peculariites of the instance or situation. Even if you did homework (gah! think about it...it's supposed to be a game and you have to do homework?!) the first time you saw the dungeon you wouldn't recognize stuff:
---Idiot, if you step in that water, you will become poisoned and die in 3 seconds! Why do we bring Noobs on these raids grrrr!
--- pay attention, when the boss turns green, 2 seconds later this platform will have an earthquake, you have to run off it or be knocked down for 10 seconds
--- I know you have this great ranger skill, but you can't use it in that room because it will suck the mana from all our casters
---Stand in that crease over there in the wall, otherwise you over aggro the whole room. But NOT right NEXT to the wall, because then you will aggro stuff on the other side of the wall....arrrgghh TRAIN!
and so forth. Sure I am making some of this up, as my memory isn't that good, but the truth was much worse.
And then the rewards were...rather thin. Do this raid 20 times and you qualify to get a new red scarf!
And at that point after giving it a trial, and it was a trial, I bid farewell to my friends --- most of them were nice people --- and moved on. So in principle I don't mind the concept of a raid, but in fact, so far, they have ruined the game(s) for me.
I would have to go with the "been there done that" option. I feel likes its been beaten to death in games, the next big wave of "raiding" is going to be more social-political than anything else I feel.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
I enjoy raiding, sometimes. I dislike the gear grind, but enjoy the challenge. That being said, maybe I only enjoy raiding because it's generally where the coolest fights were. If an MMO had cool content and difficult fights that you could experience without raiding, then I'd be all for it!
I'm 30% Rock, 10% Roll, 50% Nerd and 10% Troll. Axis of Awesome - Moderately Rock and Roll
I like raiding, but not in the current WoW-type raid setting. I liked raiding back in EQ when it wasn't strictly an end-game feature. I like getting a lot of players together and trying to coordinate with them, but not on such a serious level where everything has to be exactly perfect. I think players should be able to raid as a means to level up instead of just doing quests or grinding mobs. Though I do enjoy a good challenge, I usually don't participate in features that are unlocked by keying or minimum stat requirements, such as tiered dungeons, as I don't agree with segregating the playerbase and prefer the social aspects that raids provide more than the item rewards.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
Comments
Raiding in Vanguard is awesome.
Raiding in Lineage 2 was okayish.
For me, raids have too many people. I can handle (watch over) about 8 people in a group max. More than that and I cannot keep up with everyone. I usually play a support role, so watching the raid member's bars usually takes precedence over watching the monster's bars. All in all, raids are just too busy for my enjoyment. I don't care if the game has raids. When the raiding interferes with my own gameplay, then it is an issue for me.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
trolololol at complex... If raids were complex actually people wouldnt play them because they wouldnt be able to win...
The level of complexity is one that even an 8 year old can see through
As i grow older and in my life have less/no time for raiding i changed my playstyle. When i was younger and seemed to have all the time in the world it was great to raid, to get all those people together coordinating to overcome a great challenge. Most of us even met in life and became fast friends, i do miss that. I feel now that even though i may not be at the top of the game gear and content wise i can still have fun without raids.
Raiding and WoW are the worst things that happened to mmorpg for me.
"Only in quiet waters do things mirror themselves undistorted.
Only in a quiet mind is adequate perception of the world."
Hans Margolius
Gearscore has destroyed grouping for fun.
I like a good raid every now and then especially if I get a weekend off. However, I don't feel that MMO's should use raids as the only exclusive way to get the best gear. Unfortunately, almost all of them do. MMOs need to bring back exploration and discovery which should be keys to elite gear. Afterall, the elite gear had to have been made by someone or it wouldn't exist. Crafters should have the opportunity to craft with rare discovered items although I don't mind rare crafting materials being raid loot drops too.
You know what? I'm standing behind my poll.
The poll is about do you like RAIDING. It is not about all of the little things that you associate with raiding like a gear grind, repetition, general PvE mechanics.
You just need to answer the simple question of do you like raiding? In other words, do you like doing dungeons with a large group of players in an organized fashion? All of the little associations you add are irrelevant. You're never going to find a poll that caters to every single respondant exactly. The best you can do is ask a single question and provide enough answers to reflect how much love, hate, or indifference respondants have to the question.
You are of course, free to comment about the conditions you like raiding under...that's the point of leaving a comment.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
That's not really what I was going for.
I'm just asking if you like raiding for the pros and cons of the raiding experience itself.
For example, I don't like raiding because I feel like the large group demands too much organization and dimishes the impact of each individual player. These dislikes stem from what raiding is and always will be based on its definition. No matter what factors you eliminate, I will never like raiding.
I will never like raiding because I don't like raiding for what it is, regardless of if you have to grind raids for gear. If you enjoy raiding, but you don't like having to grind raids, then you enjoy raiding. The poll is not about if you like how raiding is currently implemented in games. It is about if you like doing dungeons with large organized groups (raiding).
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
May I request a "Been There, Done That" poll response?
I enjoy raiding, while I'm raiding; yet often find myself unwilling to get back on the merry-go-round again if I've taken a break from it. It's a sort of "I know how much free time this is going to eat up, do I want to give up that free time again?"
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I enjoy raiding, as in I enjoy getting all the gear and playing with larges groups of people. But if there is one thing that being in college has taught me (Sophomore now) its that I do not have near enough time to be active in that sort of thing. Between homework and my girlfriend there just isnt enough daylight to fit it all in appropriately.
Oh how I miss the days when things were simple. You know the days, those when you get home from school and ignore your homework to play WoW or whatever for 8 hours then just listen real hard in class so that you can at least get a B. Oh those were the days
One of the worst features to be added to mmos.
Zomg, my teacher was right o.e
Bell curve is a ubiquitous fact of life and an ever present occurence in statistics!
Most quests, party dungeouns,mobs don't take upwards of 3 or 4 hours. If they did, you take a break and come back. Raids take more organizing and time. It's a grind like the others but different in its own right still.
Kinda sad actually.
hahah pretty interesting huh
.
While so many people have been bashing this poll, no one seems to realize that the answers we created to gauge the general consensus of like or dislike or raiding. And what do you know? The results are easy to read and you can just glance at the poll and see the results without trying to figure out what several cryptic answers like "I like raiding, but only if certain conditions are met" really mean.
Polls should not be designed to give everyone their ideal answer. They should be designed to answer some kind of question and display results in a clear and revealing way. The question I asked was "how does the community feel about raiding?" And the results seem obvious, it's a pretty even split with slightly more disliking it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Nah, still graduated with a 3.5 on a 4.0 scale. All it takes is figuing the system out.
NICE!!!................but I meant playing WoW.
Oh haha. Yeah, that part is kind of sad. But for me the golden WoW is pre BC WoW when it was still kind of good. Still trying to find a new home. Really hoping for GW2, TSW, SWTOR, and AA.
Not at all surprised by the results nor with the fact that most of the big complaints against the poll have been from people who like raiding, but X.
What I find sad is that only a few comments have suggested that raiding could some how be different, that it does not need certain things attached to it like gear or end game to make it an interesting form of game play. I'm not sure if that speaks more to the lack of developer imagination or to peoples honest dislike of raiding.
I dont like raiding.
i raided for over 4 years in WoW and came from 'loved raiding' to almost 'hated raiding' . My problem with it is not time needed for it, I could still find it. My issues are 2 :
- can't stand dramas that come with it anymore, my Aion or WAR guilds atmosphere were so different to WoW or Rift, much less conflicts over petty stupid things like loot , much less 'dramatic' .
- don't want to have my 'fun time' organized on schedule and you cant do raid instance without it.
In EQ, EQ2, WoW, and Lotro I found my "level" in this discussion.
At relatively low level I found groups of friends, did low level content (much more solo stuff in WoW, but whatever). Worked my way up. The content was generally of the sort that modest sanity on the part of the players was sufficient to do most stuff. Sometimes, rarely, you had to work a little harder but it wasn't that bad. In Wow you could stumble around like a drunk and do the content, of course.
At some point in each game, the groups I found changed to guilds. And then the guilds changed to raiding organizations. In WoW it was because we hit max level, in the other games it was significantly lower.
And then we had the following: nearly mandantory scheduling; gear requirements; organization on a pseudo military scale; and numerous opportunitiies for awful consequences resulting from the peculariites of the instance or situation. Even if you did homework (gah! think about it...it's supposed to be a game and you have to do homework?!) the first time you saw the dungeon you wouldn't recognize stuff:
---Idiot, if you step in that water, you will become poisoned and die in 3 seconds! Why do we bring Noobs on these raids grrrr!
--- pay attention, when the boss turns green, 2 seconds later this platform will have an earthquake, you have to run off it or be knocked down for 10 seconds
--- I know you have this great ranger skill, but you can't use it in that room because it will suck the mana from all our casters
---Stand in that crease over there in the wall, otherwise you over aggro the whole room. But NOT right NEXT to the wall, because then you will aggro stuff on the other side of the wall....arrrgghh TRAIN!
and so forth. Sure I am making some of this up, as my memory isn't that good, but the truth was much worse.
And then the rewards were...rather thin. Do this raid 20 times and you qualify to get a new red scarf!
And at that point after giving it a trial, and it was a trial, I bid farewell to my friends --- most of them were nice people --- and moved on. So in principle I don't mind the concept of a raid, but in fact, so far, they have ruined the game(s) for me.
---------------------------
Rose-lipped maidens,
Light-foot lads...
I would have to go with the "been there done that" option. I feel likes its been beaten to death in games, the next big wave of "raiding" is going to be more social-political than anything else I feel.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
I enjoy raiding, sometimes. I dislike the gear grind, but enjoy the challenge. That being said, maybe I only enjoy raiding because it's generally where the coolest fights were. If an MMO had cool content and difficult fights that you could experience without raiding, then I'd be all for it!
I'm 30% Rock, 10% Roll, 50% Nerd and 10% Troll.
Axis of Awesome - Moderately Rock and Roll
I like raiding, but not in the current WoW-type raid setting. I liked raiding back in EQ when it wasn't strictly an end-game feature. I like getting a lot of players together and trying to coordinate with them, but not on such a serious level where everything has to be exactly perfect. I think players should be able to raid as a means to level up instead of just doing quests or grinding mobs. Though I do enjoy a good challenge, I usually don't participate in features that are unlocked by keying or minimum stat requirements, such as tiered dungeons, as I don't agree with segregating the playerbase and prefer the social aspects that raids provide more than the item rewards.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.