Why do people even care if WoW lives or die, it is a game, not your life. The game has alreadybeen a financial success, even if it dies tomorrow, it has already won the battle, the war of its time. It has flat out defeated everyone in its time, like Pele and Maradona, like Michael Jordan and Roger Federer. It doesn't matter if GW2 'kills' WoW today or tomorrow, the fact that WoW is from 2004, even before GW itself, already show that WoW was the top dog.
It doesn't matter if you win against WoW in 2012, it has already won way back in 2004.
Now GW2 and SWTOR is more like its successor, with advancment in graphic and programming technologies, it is natural that one or two games will eventually surpass it.
But lets not mention the games that get pump out at present which are still much worse than WoW.
This bore repeating ! GW2 is it's own model anyways....it doesn't really have to beat anything. GW was already wildly successful, and there's no reason to believe that '2' won't be as well.
Whether either of those two games will surpass WoW is unknown.
GW2 will cater to a different (and smaller) market base than the traditional WOW player.
Will some WOW players switch over and play GW2 for a spell? Sure, but the hardcore WOW players will always return to it in the next expansion, and new folks will continue to join.
WOW may decline some, but its likely to stay up on top for quite some time.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I love how badly people believe GW2 is the savior of the world, the one great light in the future of the MMO. I am pretty sure by this point that there are a team of guys working for Anet spreading the word of Guild Wars 2 and how revolutionary it is as a game.
Like everyone says time will kill WoW, or perhaps these new games will be polished enough and just a fraction different to speed up the bleed of players. WoW however still has the best themepark pvp at end game and I only really play it for the possibility of fighting serious opponents in arena, if you believe WoW's pvp is purely based on team comp then your simply a bad player whos looking to blame something other than themselves.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't offer enough in terms of competative pvp for my liking. I need a chart that says I am the best, and I need to be able to customize my characters gear, talents, weapons more than GW2 is letting me in the rated pvp. Server v server I do not care for at all, to many nubs to be bracketed with!
It's become something of a "Rite of Passage" for the "Will it kill WoW?" question to come up about just about any upcoming MMO; especially the more high profile ones. However, it even comes up for some of the less popular ones. I remember such a discussion happening about Darkfall before it came out, for example.. No, I'm not joking.
If I don't see one of these threads - at least one, but usually several - pop up for a MMO, I actually am surprised.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
However, it even comes up for some of the less popular ones. I remember such a discussion happening about Darkfall before it came out, for example.. No, I'm not joking.
Well yeah, DF and WoW are so similar. I mean everyone knows DF is a WoW clone. :-)
Saw one for World of Tanks too. To me that was one of the more unlikely WoW killers.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Man..why did you make this thread! Really I do wonder sometimes about people on this forum. Is it just sheer boredom? Because surely so many members of this site cant be that stupid!
Anyways, I'll throw in my 2c since I did click 'Reply'.
Yes OP. You are correct. GW2 will not kill world of warcraft. Wow will just die out with time. We knew this many years ago. Thanks for the input though.
Currently waiting for the MMO industry to put out something good.
Anytime where people are discussing what is going to happen in the future it makes me think of Schrodinger's cat. Until we can actually witness the events occur all analogies are essentially both correct and incorrect. Arguing about them is futile, yet adding another perspective and possibility to the mix is all fine and good.
I thought, being a mad scientist at heart, that I would compose a similar experiment to prove my own theory on these two games.
First I took two dogs, named one World of Warcraft, and the other Guild Wars 2. I placed them both in a kennel without external influences and then monitored and recorded their activities. I ended up with some rather startling results.
1: World of Warcraft ate the majority of the food and slept alot with very little activity, while Guild Wars 2 ate less food it still managed to keep a greater amount of activity then World of Warcraft.
2:World of Warcraft occasionally bumped into things, leading us to beleive that he didn't look very good.
3:Guild Wars 2 would hide his feces, possibly in an attempt to disguise that he defecated at all. World of Warcraft $hit on everything.
4:In the end, Guild Wars 2 was found humping World of Warcraft, though World of Warcraft didn't seem inconvenienced by it.
It took me a good 3 min to stop laughing at this.
Blizzard itself said that WoW needs to "die", thus they are working on Titan, for the MMO genre to advance. Lets face it, while WoW is top, most other companies developing a MMO these days are going to look at it and say "We need success like them, what did they do that worked, and what doesn't work that they are doing", the funny thing is, the dev team still working on WoW is saying "look at this new game coming out, what are they doing that we can add to our game". I honestly don't see Wow going away completely for another 10 years or so, a friend of mine predicts it will be f2p in about 2 years, I say more like 5. Whenever it does, in my opinion, that's the day it dies, servers still or running or not.
I don't think Anet is even thinking about killing WoW with GW2, while it is classified as a MMO, they are two completely different beasts. Anet is trying some rather interesting, and daring things as far as MMO's are concerned, and I hope they pay off. But "kill" WoW? Nah, don't think so, sting it a bit maybe. Like others have said, time will kill WoW...time and Activision...
Nothing will kill wow, because WOW caters to the lowest common denominator of gamers.
As much as I am looking forward to GW2, the reality is that due to the low barrier of entry (no subscription fees), the game is going to attract an even lower common denominator of gamer. And because they don't have to pay anything beyond the initial box price the GW2 community will never be rid of them.
Not so much. GW2 is being built to keep griefing from being possible, so that "lower common denominator" will still be someone that you look forwards to seeing show up at an event. It'll still be someone that you share resource nodes with and don't have to fight with over them. Hell, that lowest common denominator, as you call it, will be for example my eight year old son (nine by release likely) that I'm going to buy a copy for. My ten year old daughter as well if she wants one. So when you see this little group of "lowest common denominators" out there running around together having fun toss us a wave and bask in the knowledge that you're right... you'll never be rid of us.
I love how badly people believe GW2 is the savior of the world, the one great light in the future of the MMO. I am pretty sure by this point that there are a team of guys working for Anet spreading the word of Guild Wars 2 and how revolutionary it is as a game.
Like everyone says time will kill WoW, or perhaps these new games will be polished enough and just a fraction different to speed up the bleed of players. WoW however still has the best themepark pvp at end game and I only really play it for the possibility of fighting serious opponents in arena, if you believe WoW's pvp is purely based on team comp then your simply a bad player whos looking to blame something other than themselves.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't offer enough in terms of competative pvp for my liking. I need a chart that says I am the best, and I need to be able to customize my characters gear, talents, weapons more than GW2 is letting me in the rated pvp. Server v server I do not care for at all, to many nubs to be bracketed with!
Hate to triple-post, but it amazes me to this day when I come across such an extreme example of someone having no idea what the hell they're talking about yet they keep babbling on...
Our best wisdom says most people won't pay for two subs at the same time. So any P2P MMO that comes out is competing with WoW. It's not only even just a question of being better than WoW, it has to be so much better that people are willing to switch long term (and give up their progress) and be able to convince their friends to switch over as well. If not, then people might not switch at all, or they'll buy the game, play for their free month or maybe two, and then go back.
GW2, being B2P does have a much lower barrier to entry. The game only has to look good enough that someone is willing to spend $60 to try it. In the short term after someone does that, it doesn't matter whether they stop subbing to WoW or not.
Sure, ArenaNet needs people to buy its expansion content, and that's a tougher sell than the initial box, but again, it's still a lower standard than a subscription. Sure, some people buy nothing, but it's not an all or nothing game. Maybe they only buy some of the expansion content. Maybe they wait and pick it up later for cheaper. This is money that a P2P game doesn't see at all if people just go back to WoW to stay.
So it might not matter at all what happens with WoW. WoW might not lose a single subscription to GW2 and GW2 could still be an enormous success.
As other people have pointed out it comes down to time. Maybe people want to stick with WoW for the most part because of their raid schedule. ArenaNet isn't going to care if their players only play 10 hours a week. Or maybe people stop subbing to WoW and buy all the GW2 stuff, then go back to WoW for two months every time Blizzard puts out an expansion. ArenaNet isn't going to care one bit if players do that either.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
In my opinion what kills WoW will be Blizzard. If they don't stay ahead of the curve they will basically obsolete themselves. With their resources they should be able to keep the game enjoyable for their audience for years to come. Whether they will is the question.
What GW2 will do is help to reduce server loads in a lot of MMOs. Depending on how much grouping is required by the game that could be a bad thing. I don't actually think GW2 will kill any MMOs.
I don't know if anyone brought this up already, as eight pages of crap is a bit much to bother with but:
I'd like to point out that Guild Wars 2 doesn't NEED to kill WoW. That would just be icing on the cake for the game.
What GW2 NEEDS to do, is merely sell. Like any other buy to play game (Hello there single player experiences!), GW2 can be played while you're subbed to something else. While it may be amazing, it's a "Right, screw it, I'm sick of this other thing, back to GW2 for a while" game. With how some people play games these days, constantly flitting about new MMO's and other games, GW2 can remain a constant due to the wonder that is Buy To Play. You bought the game. You have the right to play it, under certain rules and the like. Break those rules and you're out (Hello there ban stick, how you doing?)
Unlike sub games, or free games where you can spend rediculous amounts of money on horrible cash shops (Or even good cash shops. Hello vanity items. How we do so love you, even if some of us can't afford you!), GW2 will always be available for you to resink yourself back in to that world.
So I have to ask: Why would it need to kill WoW? GW2 acts as a wonderful supplement to ANY game, and all the boys and girls at A-Net need you to do is: Buy it. Oh and it's expansions, because you just know you want shiny new content to do and possibly new classes to break the Dredge's faces with... as well as other players faces :P
No matter how you may look at it, so long as people buy, it's a win/win for both A-net and it's customers. The joy of Buy To Play gives this wonderful little thing called: FREEDOM.
Yes, that's right folks, FREEDOM. Freedom to play, Freedom to choose what to play, and oh so wonderful access to what you want to play, and all you had to do was buy it. No subs, no horrid cash shops demanding you buy Exp Potions to play the damn game as it should have been played, no content barred from your account because you couldn't afford to buy that tiny little pack that still cost you $10 US, mixed in with many other tiny little packs that cost anywhere between $5 and $15US. My oh my, what a wonderful concept. Sure you have to buy expansion packs to get extra content, but considering A-nets track reckord, new content for them amounts to mountains of new things to do.
So as I was saying: GW2 need not kill WoW. The beast requires subs to survive. GW2 merely needs people to buy it, and because of it's lack of subs, isn't really going to be killing anything. People can keep their subs in WoW going (which is the reason the beast survives. It feeds on subscriptions, remember) while playing GW2, switching merrily between the two games as they please (Why hello there Freedom!)
What MAY kill WoW is this: Games taking away their players, and those players refusing to continue paying for the subscription. But with the hordes of people that WoW still has, that won't happen.
So as the OP said: What WILL kill WoW is time. Over time, people will lose interest, they will take their money to other games, and sooner or later, no one will care for the beast any longer.
/ramble
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
Comments
Who said it will?
This bore repeating
! GW2 is it's own model anyways....it doesn't really have to beat anything. GW was already wildly successful, and there's no reason to believe that '2' won't be as well.
Whether either of those two games will surpass WoW is unknown.
Yes, we all know it won't.
Thats a really long OP for a really well known and obvious statement btw.
blablabla is all i can say, im so tired of this tribial mindless posts. Sorry if i ofended anyone but i needed to say it.
GW2 will cater to a different (and smaller) market base than the traditional WOW player.
Will some WOW players switch over and play GW2 for a spell? Sure, but the hardcore WOW players will always return to it in the next expansion, and new folks will continue to join.
WOW may decline some, but its likely to stay up on top for quite some time.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Oh my... I thought everyone should be perfectly clear about this after going through the EXACT SAME process for every single launch of a new MMO.
Nothing will kill WOW except itself.
you realize no one actually said it's gonna kill wow, right?
nice we talked about it tho ^^
uh, and pudding: titan might
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
I love how badly people believe GW2 is the savior of the world, the one great light in the future of the MMO. I am pretty sure by this point that there are a team of guys working for Anet spreading the word of Guild Wars 2 and how revolutionary it is as a game.
Like everyone says time will kill WoW, or perhaps these new games will be polished enough and just a fraction different to speed up the bleed of players. WoW however still has the best themepark pvp at end game and I only really play it for the possibility of fighting serious opponents in arena, if you believe WoW's pvp is purely based on team comp then your simply a bad player whos looking to blame something other than themselves.
Guild Wars 2 doesn't offer enough in terms of competative pvp for my liking. I need a chart that says I am the best, and I need to be able to customize my characters gear, talents, weapons more than GW2 is letting me in the rated pvp. Server v server I do not care for at all, to many nubs to be bracketed with!
It's become something of a "Rite of Passage" for the "Will it kill WoW?" question to come up about just about any upcoming MMO; especially the more high profile ones. However, it even comes up for some of the less popular ones. I remember such a discussion happening about Darkfall before it came out, for example.. No, I'm not joking.
If I don't see one of these threads - at least one, but usually several - pop up for a MMO, I actually am surprised.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Well yeah, DF and WoW are so similar. I mean everyone knows DF is a WoW clone. :-)
Saw one for World of Tanks too. To me that was one of the more unlikely WoW killers.
Man..why did you make this thread! Really I do wonder sometimes about people on this forum. Is it just sheer boredom? Because surely so many members of this site cant be that stupid!
Anyways, I'll throw in my 2c since I did click 'Reply'.
Yes OP. You are correct. GW2 will not kill world of warcraft. Wow will just die out with time. We knew this many years ago. Thanks for the input though.
It took me a good 3 min to stop laughing at this.
Blizzard itself said that WoW needs to "die", thus they are working on Titan, for the MMO genre to advance. Lets face it, while WoW is top, most other companies developing a MMO these days are going to look at it and say "We need success like them, what did they do that worked, and what doesn't work that they are doing", the funny thing is, the dev team still working on WoW is saying "look at this new game coming out, what are they doing that we can add to our game". I honestly don't see Wow going away completely for another 10 years or so, a friend of mine predicts it will be f2p in about 2 years, I say more like 5. Whenever it does, in my opinion, that's the day it dies, servers still or running or not.
I don't think Anet is even thinking about killing WoW with GW2, while it is classified as a MMO, they are two completely different beasts. Anet is trying some rather interesting, and daring things as far as MMO's are concerned, and I hope they pay off. But "kill" WoW? Nah, don't think so, sting it a bit maybe. Like others have said, time will kill WoW...time and Activision...
GW2 isn't trying to kill WoW.
It's just aiming to be better.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Not so much. GW2 is being built to keep griefing from being possible, so that "lower common denominator" will still be someone that you look forwards to seeing show up at an event. It'll still be someone that you share resource nodes with and don't have to fight with over them. Hell, that lowest common denominator, as you call it, will be for example my eight year old son (nine by release likely) that I'm going to buy a copy for. My ten year old daughter as well if she wants one. So when you see this little group of "lowest common denominators" out there running around together having fun toss us a wave and bask in the knowledge that you're right... you'll never be rid of us.
And you'll like it.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Hate to triple-post, but it amazes me to this day when I come across such an extreme example of someone having no idea what the hell they're talking about yet they keep babbling on...
Oderint, dum metuant.
This.
Guild Wars 2 will NOT kill World Of Warcraft.
Who cares.
Don't shoot the messenger.....it will ruin you monitor
Hahaha, you wrote that much on something we all know? No game ever killed another game. Never did, never will.
Our best wisdom says most people won't pay for two subs at the same time. So any P2P MMO that comes out is competing with WoW. It's not only even just a question of being better than WoW, it has to be so much better that people are willing to switch long term (and give up their progress) and be able to convince their friends to switch over as well. If not, then people might not switch at all, or they'll buy the game, play for their free month or maybe two, and then go back.
GW2, being B2P does have a much lower barrier to entry. The game only has to look good enough that someone is willing to spend $60 to try it. In the short term after someone does that, it doesn't matter whether they stop subbing to WoW or not.
Sure, ArenaNet needs people to buy its expansion content, and that's a tougher sell than the initial box, but again, it's still a lower standard than a subscription. Sure, some people buy nothing, but it's not an all or nothing game. Maybe they only buy some of the expansion content. Maybe they wait and pick it up later for cheaper. This is money that a P2P game doesn't see at all if people just go back to WoW to stay.
So it might not matter at all what happens with WoW. WoW might not lose a single subscription to GW2 and GW2 could still be an enormous success.
As other people have pointed out it comes down to time. Maybe people want to stick with WoW for the most part because of their raid schedule. ArenaNet isn't going to care if their players only play 10 hours a week. Or maybe people stop subbing to WoW and buy all the GW2 stuff, then go back to WoW for two months every time Blizzard puts out an expansion. ArenaNet isn't going to care one bit if players do that either.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
In my opinion what kills WoW will be Blizzard. If they don't stay ahead of the curve they will basically obsolete themselves. With their resources they should be able to keep the game enjoyable for their audience for years to come. Whether they will is the question.
What GW2 will do is help to reduce server loads in a lot of MMOs. Depending on how much grouping is required by the game that could be a bad thing. I don't actually think GW2 will kill any MMOs.
4 of us
I don't know if anyone brought this up already, as eight pages of crap is a bit much to bother with but:
I'd like to point out that Guild Wars 2 doesn't NEED to kill WoW. That would just be icing on the cake for the game.
What GW2 NEEDS to do, is merely sell. Like any other buy to play game (Hello there single player experiences!), GW2 can be played while you're subbed to something else. While it may be amazing, it's a "Right, screw it, I'm sick of this other thing, back to GW2 for a while" game. With how some people play games these days, constantly flitting about new MMO's and other games, GW2 can remain a constant due to the wonder that is Buy To Play. You bought the game. You have the right to play it, under certain rules and the like. Break those rules and you're out (Hello there ban stick, how you doing?)
Unlike sub games, or free games where you can spend rediculous amounts of money on horrible cash shops (Or even good cash shops. Hello vanity items. How we do so love you, even if some of us can't afford you!), GW2 will always be available for you to resink yourself back in to that world.
So I have to ask: Why would it need to kill WoW? GW2 acts as a wonderful supplement to ANY game, and all the boys and girls at A-Net need you to do is: Buy it. Oh and it's expansions, because you just know you want shiny new content to do and possibly new classes to break the Dredge's faces with... as well as other players faces :P
No matter how you may look at it, so long as people buy, it's a win/win for both A-net and it's customers. The joy of Buy To Play gives this wonderful little thing called: FREEDOM.
Yes, that's right folks, FREEDOM. Freedom to play, Freedom to choose what to play, and oh so wonderful access to what you want to play, and all you had to do was buy it. No subs, no horrid cash shops demanding you buy Exp Potions to play the damn game as it should have been played, no content barred from your account because you couldn't afford to buy that tiny little pack that still cost you $10 US, mixed in with many other tiny little packs that cost anywhere between $5 and $15US. My oh my, what a wonderful concept. Sure you have to buy expansion packs to get extra content, but considering A-nets track reckord, new content for them amounts to mountains of new things to do.
So as I was saying: GW2 need not kill WoW. The beast requires subs to survive. GW2 merely needs people to buy it, and because of it's lack of subs, isn't really going to be killing anything. People can keep their subs in WoW going (which is the reason the beast survives. It feeds on subscriptions, remember) while playing GW2, switching merrily between the two games as they please (Why hello there Freedom!)
What MAY kill WoW is this: Games taking away their players, and those players refusing to continue paying for the subscription. But with the hordes of people that WoW still has, that won't happen.
So as the OP said: What WILL kill WoW is time. Over time, people will lose interest, they will take their money to other games, and sooner or later, no one will care for the beast any longer.
/ramble
MMO's played: Ragnarok Online (For years), WoW (for a few weeks only), Guild Wars, Lineage 2, Eve, Allods, Shattered Galaxy, 9 Dragons, City of Heroes, City of Villains, Star Trek Online (Got someone ELSE to pay for it), Champions Online (Someone else paid), Dofus, Dragonica, LOTRO, DDO and more... A LOT more. I've played good AND bad. The bad didn't last long. :P
To be honest, I thnk WoW is going to kill itself. GW2 has bigger plans iinstead.
Wouldn't they have to have similar subscription models to be considered competitors?
Not at all. They are both competing for the loyalty and cash of members of the same market.