Surprised this has reached 26 pages. Doesn't anyone have anything better to do than sit around the forums? Forums, the most useless invention since the pizza fork.
Outisde of the new panda race does the monk class have an actual role besides dps....yeah thats what i thought.EQ monks for life, best of the best we had a role and did it.```There is not one game that will change that for me ever.
Surprised this has reached 26 pages. Doesn't anyone have anything better to do than sit around the forums? Forums, the most useless invention since the pizza fork.
or a way for large gaming communities to communicate with one another and share ideas and/or hopefully help develop future games for companies (not including Activi$ion/Blizzard)?
Outisde of the new panda race does the monk class have an actual role besides dps....yeah thats what i thought.EQ monks for life, best of the best we had a role and did it.```There is not one game that will change that for me ever.
They can tank, heal and dps...
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt "Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security." -Norman Vincent Peale
Outisde of the new panda race does the monk class have an actual role besides dps....yeah thats what i thought.EQ monks for life, best of the best we had a role and did it.```There is not one game that will change that for me ever.
I think it will be tank, dps, and healer, but you may want to fact check that...remember skimming that somewhere tho.
Am I the only one that thinks this new talent system might be a nail in the coffin? Big changes like this have rarly had good results.
I thought that as well when I initially read it. However upon further research, they actually state that talents will be trreated like how Glyphs are treated now, where you have access to all of them. So while you can only have 6 active at any given time, You have access to all of them and you can activate specific ones depending on the task you're about to face. Its pretty much exactly how the current talent system is, where you can only reallly get access to one full talent tree.
And before anyone says ' wahh but more talents are better" just look at Rift and ask yourself, how well did that work out for them?
I thought the talent system they showed was prbably one of the best changes they ever made to wow... you basically get a pseudo hybrid class system...as in, where before you had cookie cutter builds, you can now make cross-spec builds catered to your own taste.
No doubt it will still be cookie cutter,but now they only have to balance a select few abilities per class when it comes to balancing specs within a class, and the player can make funky hybrid builds. So, by say... making a aoe build for paladins and also throwing in a signature holy ability. or a sub rogue that wants to have buffed poison from one of the other talent trees...
miles ahead of the old...go to a website, pick up a preplanned build and run with it, talent tree system imo.
Everything else is pretty meh as usual.
give it one week and it will still be cookie cutters. unfortunately for wow, it's one game which has "pandered" (i'm loving that word for blizz now), to the raiding concept that they've really lost the ability to pick up the more rpg-playing style. it's there for a long time, and then people reach endgame and it becomes ruthless with its reliance on dps meters.
personally, i think the only way any mmo can encourage a less cookie-cutter approach is to ban dps meters altogether and bring it back to that more instinctive manner of choosing skills which often left allowances for player style and preference over min-maxing.
mmos need to drop the mathematics. until then, no matter how much blizz simplify their skills or try to change things, within a week of everything being changed, everyone will be using the exact same builds across their class.
"everyone" being most, of course. alas, i always played for style over min-maxing.
Am I the only one that thinks this new talent system might be a nail in the coffin? Big changes like this have rarly had good results.
give it one week and it will still be cookie cutters. unfortunately for wow, it's one game which has "pandered" (i'm loving that word for blizz now), to the raiding concept that they've really lost the ability to pick up the more rpg-playing style. it's there for a long time, and then people reach endgame and it becomes ruthless with its reliance on dps meters.
personally, i think the only way any mmo can encourage a less cookie-cutter approach is to ban dps meters altogether and bring it back to that more instinctive manner of choosing skills which often left allowances for player style and preference over min-maxing.
mmos need to drop the mathematics. until then, no matter how much blizz simplify their skills or try to change things, within a week of everything being changed, everyone will be using the exact same builds across their class.
"everyone" being most, of course. alas, i always played for style over min-maxing.
I'm sure their will still be cookie cutter, but like you said, that's never going to be fixed until the stupid mathmatical meters are gone. Thats probably the worst thing ever to happen to wow. But it's still an interesting change none the less, and allows for the more open players to play what they like instead of playing what other say they should like.
Why is this conversation taking place in the TOR section? That's what I want to know... I really don't give a damn what Blizzard is doing, if you wanna discuss the point of the OP that's one thing, what is taking place here is something else.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I did think before I posted. And Diablo is not an RPG game, just like Orcs vs. Humans wasn't an RPG game. The POINT was innovation in RPG games, of which Blizzard has zero, save for WoW.
How you could say Diablo is not an RPG is beyond me. Have you ever seen the game? Just because the word action is in front of the acronym, does not negate the rest which is RPG.
Plenty of innovation in the Diablo series. I'm not defending any game company, but a definition. Look it up.
We just think of the definition differently man. I don't see Diablo as an RPG, because an RPG to me is somewhat of a life simulation game.
Either way, it doesn't really matter right now.
I saw Panda cuddlys in Warcraft's next expansion and laughed. I was considering playing WoW again until SWTOR came out, but I just...I can't do pandas man, I was VERY hesitant in playing the game to begin with because of the cartoon graphics. Now I am glad I quit for good lol.
Blizzard has made ONE MMO, 5 RTS (or 6), and 3 ARPGs, so.....3 RPGs that just happen to be action rpgs. Bioware has made more RPGs but ZERO MMOs so Blizzard is certainly ahead of BW in the MMO department. I don't think anyone can argue that.
These are two exemplary game developers. I honestly think it's a little premature to have a pissing contest between them. They are definitely two of the VERY best.
edit:
IMO pandas and Pokemon type pet battles are both stupid. So that's one ding against Blizz and part of "handing it to TOR on a plate," perhaps. We shall see.
I won't be one to judge how well this Xpac will do, or how it will effect TOR's numbers, and I'm certainly no WoW-hater; I enjoyed the 1-60 revamp in Cat and the new races... BUT...
...this Xpac sounds like the lamest pile of crap that ever crapped a crap.
That could change at some point, and they just may find a way to make it appealing to folks such as myself. But for right now, it's just... ick. Sure... they have gnomes, so kung fu pandas aren't entirely OOC for Azeroth. And who doesn't dream of pulling a Michael Vick with their own pets? But it still sounds really really really really lame. This could be Blizzard's "jump the shark" moment.
If TOR does make a dent in WoW's subs, I don't think it will have anything to do with Pandagate. The furor over Pandas in a game already featuring space goats represents such a pathetic, miniscule percentage of the gaming base as to be quite negligible in any calculations.
Time is really the only thing that will see WoW's subs drop, not the appearance of a singular, new product on the market.
Threads like this are ridiculous. If you're bored or dissatisfied with WoW, then you will be really bored and dissatisfied with TOR since it's basically WoW circa 2007.
TOR isn't giving people a compelling reason to jump ship and come over to their game. If you're a player that's on the fence and considering leaving WoW, once you realize TOR has way less content and offers the same exact raiding/instanced pvp for endgame, you'd realize there isn't much point in switching. This is why all the WoW clones do poorly. Why play a knockoff version when the real thing is available?
Threads like this are ridiculous. If you're bored or dissatisfied with WoW, then you will be really bored and dissatisfied with TOR since it's basically WoW circa 2007.
TOR isn't giving people a compelling reason to jump ship and come over to their game. If you're a player that's on the fence and considering leaving WoW, once you realize TOR has way less content and offers the same exact raiding/instanced pvp for endgame, you'd realize there isn't much point in switching. This is why all the WoW clones do poorly. Why play a knockoff version when the real thing is available?
beta testers shouldn't break the NDA. Of course, this is all assuming that one such as yourself would never make such statements without having spent considerable time playing the game.
Threads like this are ridiculous. If you're bored or dissatisfied with WoW, then you will be really bored and dissatisfied with TOR since it's basically WoW circa 2007.
TOR isn't giving people a compelling reason to jump ship and come over to their game. If you're a player that's on the fence and considering leaving WoW, once you realize TOR has way less content and offers the same exact raiding/instanced pvp for endgame, you'd realize there isn't much point in switching. This is why all the WoW clones do poorly. Why play a knockoff version when the real thing is available?
beta testers shouldn't break the NDA. Of course, this is all assuming that one such as yourself would never make such statements without having spent considerable time playing the game.
The sepia toned colours and cartoonesque graphics of WoW attracted a large audience. In some way you could say that the graphics have an almost timeless feel to it despite being borderline childish. I too fell for it when WoW was launched and I continued to play for several years until it just no longer spiked my interest and I quit.
With the recent addition of Pandaren and monks however I just can't quite fathom why they felt like they had to give the Pandaren, Monks and the new zones such a go-happy feel to it. Sure WoW shouldn't be filled with destruction and despair but the graphics on Pandaren are just mind blowingly awful. They do indeed look like they've been ripped out of a 4 year old Chinese girls dreams.
They could've at the very least given the Pandaren a more serious feel to them.
Right now all I want to do is kick them to the curb shortly after giving them a big bear hug.
Originally posted by GreenHellThe monk class alone will draw people back just like the DK class did.
Monks are the one thing I would avoid at all costs as a MMO maker. Real Ultimate Power parhaps markets really well to teenage males (along with rogues and assassins and monks), but there are more than enough toons out there with "dark" "shadow" "silent" etc. name roots already.
Now if Bliz built them around a Western Monk (just to be different) instead of Eastern, they might be onto something not quite so pedestrian and hackneyed.
This has been Just1Opinion (tm)--I'll pay a royalty for use of the name later.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This has absolutely nothing to do with TOR. I doubt anyone jumping WOW for TOR are going to stop doing so because of pandas. I also doubt that TOR business will be done at the expense of WOW. People seem to think that WOW is the only potential audience for MMOS when in fact the pie is so much bigger.
Yeah, all this did for me is confirm that SWTOR is most certainly NOT WoW 2.0, nor would it ever be, and it also confirmed my abhorrent dislike of WoW, even though I've never played it.
Admittedly, I grew up a Star Wars fan - and many nights as a child were spent dreaming of being a Jedi or a smuggler or flying my ship through space (even on rails)...but not once in my childhood did I EVER wish I were a Panda that knew Kung Fu.
They may not have "handed" it to SWTOR, but they sure as hell destroyed a lotta hopes some people had - SWTOR still has work to do and it needs to grab the players...well...the ones who don't wanna be Karate Panda that is.
All you folks looking forward to Kung Fu Pandas, enjoy it.
Every site is swamped with wow headlines, i think Blizz just hoodwinked ToR.
You're kidding right?
People are talking about it because it was so outlandish that few believed it was real...not because people are all like "OMG, this is all W0Wwas missing, now it's ep!c!"
I would even say the planned expansion has caused pandamonium...
Threads like this are ridiculous. If you're bored or dissatisfied with WoW, then you will be really bored and dissatisfied with TOR since it's basically WoW circa 2007.
For me, 2007 was WoW's last good year, I'm not bothered at all if that's how you say TOR is.
Threads like this are ridiculous. If you're bored or dissatisfied with WoW, then you will be really bored and dissatisfied with TOR since it's basically WoW circa 2007.
For me, 2007 was WoW's last good year, I'm not bothered at all if that's how you say TOR is.
+1.
Someone said they copied the old WoW, and that's only a good sign.
Every site is swamped with wow headlines, i think Blizz just hoodwinked ToR.
You're kidding right?
People are talking about it because it was so outlandish that few believed it was real...not because people are all like "OMG, this is all W0Wwas missing, now it's ep!c!"
I would even say the planned expansion has caused pandamonium...
Pandamonium is exactly what Blizzard wants. Make people forget about that other MMO right before release so people won't flock toward it. Blizzard has created a pandamic which has infected these forums, and most others (even the TOR forums). Once people get over their hate and realize Pandas are fine as a race, Blizzard will start raking in the cash again. Bioware's feeble attempt to pandamime (stretch, I know) Blizzards success won't succeed without Blizzard fighting back.
I've always thought StarWars was going to be successful but the degree of success was always in question . The elephant in the room was always what Blizzard were going to do to combat the potential competition from TOR . With the annoucement of the Kung Fu Panda expanion yesterday which seams extremly weak in concept I think Blizzard have given it to TOR on a plate . If the game is as polished and fun as early reviews make it out to be the potential exodus from WoW to StarWars could now be on a epic scale . There must be howls of delight and relief in the Bioware offices at the huge miss step by Blizzard just as they are about to release TOR .
An early Christmas present indeed .
The numbers of subscribers to WOW are so above and beyond the scope of what any mmorpg has ever even come close to I don't think I would call it a forgone conclusion. First SWG has shown us that the rabid fanboism of Star Wars fans isn't enough to get them to buy just anything with that name on the box, and there are enough mmorpg players determined to undermine this game that I wouldn't concede anything to them even if Blizzard was doing nothing.
I don't think even if TOR execeeds the expectations of most that it means they will jump out to a 10 million plus sub base right out of the gate.
Comments
Surprised this has reached 26 pages. Doesn't anyone have anything better to do than sit around the forums? Forums, the most useless invention since the pizza fork.
Outisde of the new panda race does the monk class have an actual role besides dps....yeah thats what i thought.EQ monks for life, best of the best we had a role and did it.```There is not one game that will change that for me ever.
or a way for large gaming communities to communicate with one another and share ideas and/or hopefully help develop future games for companies (not including Activi$ion/Blizzard)?
They can tank, heal and dps...
"Great minds talk about ideas, average minds talk about events, and small minds talk about people." - Eleanor Roosevelt
"Americans used to roar like lions for liberty; now we bleat like sheep for security." -Norman Vincent Peale
I think it will be tank, dps, and healer, but you may want to fact check that...remember skimming that somewhere tho.
give it one week and it will still be cookie cutters. unfortunately for wow, it's one game which has "pandered" (i'm loving that word for blizz now), to the raiding concept that they've really lost the ability to pick up the more rpg-playing style. it's there for a long time, and then people reach endgame and it becomes ruthless with its reliance on dps meters.
personally, i think the only way any mmo can encourage a less cookie-cutter approach is to ban dps meters altogether and bring it back to that more instinctive manner of choosing skills which often left allowances for player style and preference over min-maxing.
mmos need to drop the mathematics. until then, no matter how much blizz simplify their skills or try to change things, within a week of everything being changed, everyone will be using the exact same builds across their class.
"everyone" being most, of course. alas, i always played for style over min-maxing.
I'm sure their will still be cookie cutter, but like you said, that's never going to be fixed until the stupid mathmatical meters are gone. Thats probably the worst thing ever to happen to wow. But it's still an interesting change none the less, and allows for the more open players to play what they like instead of playing what other say they should like.
Why is this conversation taking place in the TOR section? That's what I want to know... I really don't give a damn what Blizzard is doing, if you wanna discuss the point of the OP that's one thing, what is taking place here is something else.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Blizzard has made ONE MMO, 5 RTS (or 6), and 3 ARPGs, so.....3 RPGs that just happen to be action rpgs. Bioware has made more RPGs but ZERO MMOs so Blizzard is certainly ahead of BW in the MMO department. I don't think anyone can argue that.
These are two exemplary game developers. I honestly think it's a little premature to have a pissing contest between them. They are definitely two of the VERY best.
edit:
IMO pandas and Pokemon type pet battles are both stupid. So that's one ding against Blizz and part of "handing it to TOR on a plate," perhaps. We shall see.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I won't be one to judge how well this Xpac will do, or how it will effect TOR's numbers, and I'm certainly no WoW-hater; I enjoyed the 1-60 revamp in Cat and the new races... BUT...
...this Xpac sounds like the lamest pile of crap that ever crapped a crap.
That could change at some point, and they just may find a way to make it appealing to folks such as myself. But for right now, it's just... ick. Sure... they have gnomes, so kung fu pandas aren't entirely OOC for Azeroth. And who doesn't dream of pulling a Michael Vick with their own pets? But it still sounds really really really really lame. This could be Blizzard's "jump the shark" moment.
If TOR does make a dent in WoW's subs, I don't think it will have anything to do with Pandagate. The furor over Pandas in a game already featuring space goats represents such a pathetic, miniscule percentage of the gaming base as to be quite negligible in any calculations.
Time is really the only thing that will see WoW's subs drop, not the appearance of a singular, new product on the market.
Threads like this are ridiculous. If you're bored or dissatisfied with WoW, then you will be really bored and dissatisfied with TOR since it's basically WoW circa 2007.
TOR isn't giving people a compelling reason to jump ship and come over to their game. If you're a player that's on the fence and considering leaving WoW, once you realize TOR has way less content and offers the same exact raiding/instanced pvp for endgame, you'd realize there isn't much point in switching. This is why all the WoW clones do poorly. Why play a knockoff version when the real thing is available?
beta testers shouldn't break the NDA. Of course, this is all assuming that one such as yourself would never make such statements without having spent considerable time playing the game.
what part of that do you think breaks the NDA?
This expansion is laughable at best.
The sepia toned colours and cartoonesque graphics of WoW attracted a large audience. In some way you could say that the graphics have an almost timeless feel to it despite being borderline childish. I too fell for it when WoW was launched and I continued to play for several years until it just no longer spiked my interest and I quit.
With the recent addition of Pandaren and monks however I just can't quite fathom why they felt like they had to give the Pandaren, Monks and the new zones such a go-happy feel to it. Sure WoW shouldn't be filled with destruction and despair but the graphics on Pandaren are just mind blowingly awful. They do indeed look like they've been ripped out of a 4 year old Chinese girls dreams.
They could've at the very least given the Pandaren a more serious feel to them.
Right now all I want to do is kick them to the curb shortly after giving them a big bear hug.
Monks are the one thing I would avoid at all costs as a MMO maker. Real Ultimate Power parhaps markets really well to teenage males (along with rogues and assassins and monks), but there are more than enough toons out there with "dark" "shadow" "silent" etc. name roots already.
Now if Bliz built them around a Western Monk (just to be different) instead of Eastern, they might be onto something not quite so pedestrian and hackneyed.
This has been Just1Opinion (tm)--I'll pay a royalty for use of the name later.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Wow...6 pages lol.
Yeah, all this did for me is confirm that SWTOR is most certainly NOT WoW 2.0, nor would it ever be, and it also confirmed my abhorrent dislike of WoW, even though I've never played it.
Admittedly, I grew up a Star Wars fan - and many nights as a child were spent dreaming of being a Jedi or a smuggler or flying my ship through space (even on rails)...but not once in my childhood did I EVER wish I were a Panda that knew Kung Fu.
They may not have "handed" it to SWTOR, but they sure as hell destroyed a lotta hopes some people had - SWTOR still has work to do and it needs to grab the players...well...the ones who don't wanna be Karate Panda that is.
All you folks looking forward to Kung Fu Pandas, enjoy it.
Every site is swamped with wow headlines, i think Blizz just hoodwinked ToR.
You're kidding right?
People are talking about it because it was so outlandish that few believed it was real...not because people are all like "OMG, this is all W0W was missing, now it's ep!c!"
I would even say the planned expansion has caused pandamonium...
For me, 2007 was WoW's last good year, I'm not bothered at all if that's how you say TOR is.
+1.
Someone said they copied the old WoW, and that's only a good sign.
Pandamonium is exactly what Blizzard wants. Make people forget about that other MMO right before release so people won't flock toward it. Blizzard has created a pandamic which has infected these forums, and most others (even the TOR forums). Once people get over their hate and realize Pandas are fine as a race, Blizzard will start raking in the cash again. Bioware's feeble attempt to pandamime (stretch, I know) Blizzards success won't succeed without Blizzard fighting back.
Sarcasm is not a crime!
Moved to WoW forums since this is more about WoW than SWTOR. Please remember to follow the RoC when posting.
The numbers of subscribers to WOW are so above and beyond the scope of what any mmorpg has ever even come close to I don't think I would call it a forgone conclusion. First SWG has shown us that the rabid fanboism of Star Wars fans isn't enough to get them to buy just anything with that name on the box, and there are enough mmorpg players determined to undermine this game that I wouldn't concede anything to them even if Blizzard was doing nothing.
I don't think even if TOR execeeds the expectations of most that it means they will jump out to a 10 million plus sub base right out of the gate.