My opinion, you can call it a wake up call

MMOtoGO · November 2011

Originally posted by felyx

I never really post in these forums, usually I just watch you guys discussing games, but not today. First off I really have to tell you I was looking forward to playing SWTOR, I really was. Checked every news, every video avaible and so on. I am sure some of you will flame me for what I am about to say, but please, for one second, put down your fanboy attitude and think about what I am going to tell you now.
I played a lot of mmos, in the last 10 or 12 years, and I never really had a problem if my currently played mmo was just like the one I played before except maybe graphic quality and so on. I do play Wow for a while now, and I am looking for something different, new, better, more entertaining, because I am bored of it.
When I saw SWTOR for the first time, well to be honest I was expecting a lot more. I am sure the story with voice acting and all is more enjoyable than Wow's but is that enough, for how long? People already skipping through these cutscenes because it does get boring.
The combat system is a bit different but after you get used to it, and I mean used to timing your skills and so on, then it will become just as boring as Wow's.
The biggest dissapointment for me is the graphics. From a game that is released in late 2011, I expect quality like Guild Wars 2, TERA Online, Archage has. Charcter animations, and the overall look of the characters are lame, and I couldnt be more polite. It is bad, very very bad. I saw the world, it looks a bit better than the characters, but most of the time you will look at your character, it is pretty damn important how it looks. But even the world could look a lot better.
Content is better, I agree it has enough to start with, but I do not think it will be enough for more than two-three months of playtime.
PvP... I mean really? I know Wow devs already making a hutball like pvp for the next expansion basically stealing the idea, but you cant blame them more than you can blame SWTOR devs stealing pretty much every good idea from Wow... There are a few new ideas that can entertain you for a couple of weeks, after that it will get boring just like Wow bgs do. That PvP planet or whatnot might be a nice addition but again, I dont think thats enough.
PvE raids, dungeons... all the same, just check the videos about them, the basic concept is just the same as in Wow.
Even the freakin flight masters are copied into the game, the only difference is that your not riding a gryphon but a speeder...
I tried most of the mmos that came after Wow. Warhammer, Age Of Conan, Rift and the list goes on. All of those failed to bring something new, something refreshing to us players that actually holds our interest for a long(er) time. Maybe SWTOR will be more entertaining than Rift, because I put that one down after one and a half week, thats not long I know, but does it matter if it takes 2 weeks or 2 months? It is not enough...
I know lot of you will say I am a wow fanboy but please don't try to call me that just because I compared SWTOR to it. I do not think Wow is better, not even the slightest.. (By the way everyone compares it to wow since its the leading mmo game on the market atm.)
I just cant stand that SWTOR fans trying to convince everyone that SWTOR is the biggest hit since Wow. It is not. I know you hate wow, that is obvious and at some points I do agree, but SWTOr aint no solution for us bored mmo players who actually wants something better, it is pretty much another Wow dressed differently.
Last but not least, if you want something new, wait for TERA, GW2, or even Archage, at least those games offer something new, but keep in mind I am not trying to say that those games will be better for sure, all I am saying is that those game really showed something different than Wow..

I actually agree with the OPs assessment. I almost had coffee spew out of my nose when the Gamebreaker guys were saying that the game is completely different from that other game that starts with War and ends with craft.

Edit... I like Warcraft by the way.

jethroe · November 2011

kinda reminds one of religion or polotics eh?

MMO.Maverick · November 2011

Originally posted by vesavius

The difference is that Mav have applied that blanket label directly to me and others I know are not 'burnt out' a a tactic to dismiss valid views out of hand.

The day I call Mav a shill or weekend tester for having a positive view on the entire game and dimiss his views out of hand because of that it's the same.

Wrong. I applied it to the OP and others like him, of whom a lot of them confirmed it themselves.

If you want to use that analogy the proper one would be if I had written a positive review, and you would have categorized them 'shills and beta weekend posters'. Besides the clearly ridiculous idea of tagging positive reviewers like shills, if I then would have reacted and be indignant about it, that's when I would have done the same as you do now, namely accusing you of making a blanket statement that in your eyes applies to most of your target group but not all.

Same thing, I apply the tag to a considerable group of posters that fulfill the traits, but not all. In fact, you're using a strawman argument, one that I never made.

Originally posted by 41eX

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by 41eX

Good post. Never been a fanboy of anything. Without critical thinking we will still be in caverns and I think fanboism shows a persons lack of character and above all...

.. it is your opinion, maybe I dont agree with it but I will defend to the death your right to say it (Voltaire).

Wrong, too onesided. In my opinion extremism in viewpoint in any form, fanboi and hater, shows a person's lack of character, or an inability to see the world in other terms than black and white.

Oh dear user but I didnt mention haters hence the statement it is not wrong and in my opinion (should I bold this?) OP is not a hater. My post was a reply to him because I see a lot of ad-hominem attacks.

That's why I said it's wrong in its onesidedness, which is my opinion I didn't say the OP was a hater, I criticised your view regarding fanboism (and maybe a number of posters), nothing more to it than that

Vesavius · November 2011

Originally posted by Torgrim
TOR will end up like RIFT, massive hype, million+ copies sold, 6 months later server merges.

Not bad games but not that good either people will just stick around beacuse it's star wars and bioware and linger for months hoping for that golden x-pack that will breath some life into the game, RIFT players still waiting for that breath.

Agreed 100%.

Rift sold really well initially off a solid launch (which no doubt SWtOR will have) and the power of allowing weekend test events, no reason to think SWtOR won't.

A lot of the debates I have with the weekend testers here are extremely similar to the ones I had with weekend testers from Rift (which I was a long term tester for as well)... and where were those guys who had argued so strongly with me pre launch for that game 6 months later?

Gone.

UrzaElent · November 2011

Originally posted by Zillen

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by Zillen

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by Zillen

Originally posted by UrzaElent

Originally posted by Zillen

Originally posted by Biggus99

Originally posted by Zillen

Please, my above points are valid: you simply need to look at this from an unbiased view. "The customer is always right", IS not a bulletproof concept, but if the potential customer says a game is bad, this is not a good sign. There are only so many starstruck Beta Testers and investigative gamers in the world: casuals are the key to success, and that is economic fact.

Sincerely,

Zillen

Well, considering this game is going to have 2.5 to 3 million units sold at launch AND has been receiving a very positive response from its beta testers, I'd say odds are pretty good that Bioware's formula is going to be pretty successful, despite your contention that something can only be improved upon and refined once (which is bullshit, btw).

That being said, the longevity of this game will be determined on what Bioware does post launch.

Never said that a formula or strategy couldn't be refined more than once. Did you see me write that? Of course you didn't. It wasn't there.

I think we can all agree, though, that there is a reason that WoW is losing subscribers, and that Titan is being developed, and that MMOs are emerging that are beginning to take on semblances of originality (if such things exist in this industry anymore). It is because even Blizzard is recognising that its marketing equation, however intricate and regularly-renovated, cannot last indefinitely.

The World of Warcraft Business Plan IS a business plan, and like an oil well that was once a vast source of wealth, this flow is beginning to stem. EA, despite Bioware's involvement, IS ultimately EA Games - it is in charge, and it is after some serious profit to outweigh its production costs. Bioware may be known for its creativity, but it's EA-Bioware now: it ultimately isn't the one steering, and if you believe that this game will sacrifice profit for the sake of creativity, than you are sorely mistaken.

I never said it could not be innovated upon multiple times. But the spell that WoW has blanketed the industry in...is finally...out of mana.

PS: Love how you only linked my conclusion, instead of drawing attention to my overall case.

And ArenaNet is owned by NCsoft, and guess what, I'd trust EA any day of the week over NCsoft. Oh and btw, we all know just how innovative and creative those south korean games are. Gezz, ever wonder why all those GW xpacs looked just like the rest of the stuff coming out of Korea. Just look at who owns the company their business plan.

Since GW2 is the only thing out there right now that can remotely compete with SWTOR, and that in and of itself is just a pipe dream, I wouldnt be so fast to point out which devs work for this company or that cause NCsoft/ArenaNet has nothing on EA, Bioware or Blizzard. Maybe if and when they can actually put together a game that doesnt fade away to the fringes just as soon as it is released they can say they can compete with the real movers of the industry.

As for your comment about WoWs spell finally slowing down, better to slow down after 6 years at the summit than to spend that same amount of time still dreaming about even seeing the mountain.

Note: This post goes out to my two repliers, however I will utilise the quote of the first.

Firstly, and to the first replier,

I would say that the primary reason for NCSoft's lesser place in the market would be for the precise reasons that I am interpreting in your reply: gamers from Western culture simply are less comfortable in their reception of games in Asia. However, I would like to point out that my main criticisms of SW:TOR revolve around the way it has been promoted, and the game's use of what I consider to be severely-aged concepts, NOT THOSE BEHIND ITS CREATION so much.

I once again refer to the Skinner Box experiment - please google it. This science, will made by an intelligent and respectful man, is the core concept behind the addictive and grind-happy nature of MMOs today. It is the master-equation that WoW built its subscriber numbers on, and it's stagnancy is becoming apparent.

Please do not make this into an argument about the designers, developers and funders of these games - I have great respect for those at Blizzard, Bioware and NCSoft equally. It is the marketing techniques and concepts they are basing their game's on that I dislike.

Which lead's me neatly onto the second replier: I apologise. I probably did word that a bit confusingly - it happens with long forum posts of mine. Just to clarify - I am not predicting the failure of SW:TOR, or the success of GW2. For all I know, Guild Wars 2 could become the bomb of the year, and all that SW:TOR has to offer may not be completely apparent to me until I HAVE played it. However, my concerns lie exclusively with the abuse of World of Warcraft's success path.

Bioware's founders have specifically stated the company's intent to keep true to the "WoW rules" which Blizzard built its blockbuster on, and my complaints revolve solely around the overuse of the WoW Equation. I do believe that good ideas can be innovated upon and refined far beyond their original form, and multiple times.

However, I have no desire to see companies and developers continuing to utilise an aged, outdated and addiction-rewarding strategy as the core concept of their products. I believe we have the technology and resources to make something more innovative - we just need to break out of a purely economic reward-over-risk mindset.

I find it quite funny - that is, the amount of people who complain that WoW clones are rampant, and that no games provide new gameplay in this industry. Innovation will not happen until we close our wallets, take a good hard think and purge the unnecessary concepts of yesteryears out of our systems.

I hear trolls? I say: why are you paying the people you claim to despise?

First of all, I dont have to google about skinners box, I already know all about it. Liked how you thought I would have to google it to know what it was. Here's one for you though, try Pavlov's dogs. See, I already know what I am getting with SWTOR. Why? Cause Bioware has been pretty clear cut about what their game is and where they hope to take it. And that is exactly what I am looking for. Unlike you and many other people on this site, I could really care less what you like or dont like. Every gamer has the right to play what and how they choose too. You dont care for SWTOR? Thats just fine. I cant stand GW2. Dont like it? Oh freaking well. Deal with it and move on. You and the other jaded and unhappy guys out here that have to try and shove your OPINIONS around like they are fact and then try to force them onto others really need to get a life though.

Getting back to Pavlov now. Here's my biggest beef with GW2, Archage, Tera and whatever other game most people rant about being soooooo much more innovative and creative than SWTOR as loud as they can whenever someone even dares to mention SWTOR. There's NOTHING to back it up. N O T H I N G. None of those games are any more or less innovative than SWTOR. The key difference is every single time you read about them, and people like you make these sham post, thats exactly what you get, "innovative" and "creative". Repeat, repeat, repeat and repeat it enough and sooner or later some people will automatically connect one with the other even when there is nothing there.

Saddly, for alot of the people on this site thats all thats needed. Post enough SWTOR hating trash, show a little biased and clearly over hyped video here or review there along with the words "innovative" and "creative" and just like Pavlov's dogs they'll start drooling even when there is nothing there to drool over.

Jesus Christ, mate. Calm the fuck down.

Let's just settle this: you don't give a shit about other people's opinions or mine? That's great, because if that's your attitude on an online forum, then I don't care about yours either.

MY BEEF (not that you asked of course, or failed to mention a single constructive feedback point outside "all innovation is bullshit and every game that says it does so is lying") is with people like you. People that make no attempt to actually deconstruct and evaluate other people's rational views with an at least partially agenda-free thought process. In your entire post, you have red-flagged the troll alert so many times - it is so fucking hypocritical.

1. You said I should get a life. So original.

2. You made it out like I was a fanboy, and responded to some obscure emotional rant of mine that didn't happen. "Deal with it and move on? Jaded and unhappy people?" What context are you placing my words in?

3. You did not make one single point as to why you liked SW:TOR or why innovation is false in the MMO Industry. You simply raged at me and "people like me" and posted the name of a Russian Physiologist which basically looks at the same concept that I mentioned before. And I never said that you didn't already know about Skinner's Box. You do? Really? Do you want a medal or something? Good for you! Let's assume there are people out there who don't, for a change.

I never said that Guild Wars 2 would be innovative or creative, and I never once mentioned TERA or Archage in my posts. I said that some MMOs emerging recently have the potential to stimulate new creativity in the industry. Now stop bloody posting nonsensical rants on forums - if you're going to share your opinions as if you know what you're talking about, please back it up with valuable information.

Sincerely,

Zillen

LMAO, wow, I was being civil but if you really want to go down this road thats fine by me "mate".

First of all if anyone is ranting here its you pal, so why dont you just take you own damn advice and chill out or stfu, ok?

And yea, guess what, you seem like most of the little shits on this site that once they find someone they cant force their opinions on in a civil debate they start going off the wall about how everyone ELSE needs to chill out when they, themselves are the ones going all Norman Bates on the forums.

At least you got something partly right though. I dont give a flying fuck about your opinions or anyone elses. WHY? Cause un like you I can fucking realize that everyone has the right to their own opinions, thats just peachy with me, just not the right to try to shove it down someone elses throat.

So why dont you take my advice and get a life cause your whole "I'm a online badass that is gonna "settle" this forum issue" with some random guy you wouldnt even know if I walked right by your fail ass on the street thing is low even for your type.

Sincerely,

Urza Elent

Excuse me sir. You've got a bit of bullshit on your mouth right there.

Listen, I know you're having a great time being a Flame War General. But I do need to correct your reply. Because unlike you, I do care what other people think, and I do care about people like you being allowed free reign to say as they like.

1. "Mate"? Why the question mark? Is there something wrong with saying 'mate' on the internet? You realize, of course, that it in no way implicates you as my friend? It is simply a term of acknowledgement where I am from - a courtesy, if you will, concerning the other person's right to argue like civilised adults. A courtesy you have failed to reciprocate in any way.

2. You remind me greatly of kindergarten psychology. When faced with an argument which is either too complex for them to comprehend or simply goes against their most basic of stubborn opinions, their simplistics retorts will consist of a variation on "no, you are!" In what way does telling me to chill out, and talking about Norman Bates, add any sort of credency to you?

3. Civil debate? I think that if you scroll up and actually look at the things that have been discussed so far, you will see that you somewhat threw that out the window a couple of posts ago. If you are going to start a war of the Flame, don't try to back out of it and declare that you have the moral high ground.

4. You are, essentially, one of the biggest hypocrites I have ever seen. You claim to be an advocate for free opinion, and yet in response to my well-written and rational responses you have fired every single insult possible at me, declaring that you don't give a "flying fuck" about my opinions, or any other person "like me". Who are you insulting here? People who can debate cohesively without using leetspeak and bad grammar in all of their sentences?

5. "Online badass who's going to settle this issue?" Hardly. I'm afraid that the battle to turn the internet into a place where people can actually use forums for actual, reasonable discussion is one that has gone on for a long time, and will continue to for a long time.

You see, Urza, I do not mind if you like SW:TOR. What I do mind is the fact that you add no value or proper argument to your replies, and simply seek to make out that all persons who do so are fascists who seek to overrule the opinions of others. Low for my type?

You are right in that aspect, Urza. I would not honestly care if someone like you walked past me in the street. I have very little patience for people who ceaselessly settle all conflict with insult and irrational stereotyping, and this is no different when I am offline.

Sincerely,

Zillen

LOL. First of all, WHERE THE HELL is this question mark????????????

Second, I'm done with you buddy boy cause you are clearly delusional to the point where you are seeing and reading things that AREN'T EVEN THERE.

And let me make this clear aswell. After all this I highly doubt I ever would walk past you since I am starting to wonder if you are nothing more than a extremely mentally ill being who isn't even able to handle the wider world outside their door and thus relies on the internet to express they warped and twisted view of reality to others in the outside world.

And last but not least, if there is bullshit around anyones mouth you must be looking a mirror.

There is nothing else to say to you after this other than to mention that I really am sincere in my pity for you. You dont seem to have any grasp at all on the world around you. You must lead a truely sad life and my pity is about all you will get from me past this point.

Urza Elent

Supersoups · November 2011

Originally posted by dubyahite
Enough with the he said she said please!

Some people can't even admit that they are wrong otherwise this discussion wouldn't go down this path. Blaimng other for lack of reading comprehension when what you wrote is crystal clear just gives birth to drama like this. But like i said virtual ego is a big deal.

Naral · November 2011

The OP strikes me as yet another person looking for SWG2. While not mentioning sandbox, per se, they do mention--repeatedly--all the things they hate about SWTOR, none of which should have been a surprise to even a total non beta tester.

I love it, but its about expectations. I would have loved SWG2 as well. I never hated WoW, and I love SWTOR. Hey, guess what....I am *also* looking forward to GW2. There are a lot of us out there who want to play both. ;-)

Vesavius · November 2011

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by vesavius

The difference is that Mav have applied that blanket label directly to me and others I know are not 'burnt out' a a tactic to dismiss valid views out of hand.

The day I call Mav a shill or weekend tester for having a positive view on the entire game and dimiss his views out of hand because of that it's the same.

Wrong. I applied it to the OP and others like him, of whom a lot of them confirmed it themselves.

No, you have misunderstood. I am saying that you have applied that label to me repeatedly in the past as a method of shutting down opinion and dismissing valid views. I am not talking specifically about this thread.

Vesavius · November 2011

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by vesavius

The difference is that Mav has applied that blanket label directlyy to me and others I know are not 'burnt out' a a tactic to dismiss valid arguments out of hand.

The day I call 'Mav' a shill or weekend tester for having a positive view on the entire game and dimiss his views out of hand it's the same.

TBH I'd like to see the day when we can all discuss games without all the drama that follows, maybe I was a bit too judgemental with my reply to you. With that said, regardless of the reasoning or difference, all in all it's the same thing, being dismissive of opinions simply because they don't follow your own in a locked step.

I try extremely hard to not dismiss an individuals opinion on this forum based on a group labeling. Hell, I rarely use the terms 'hater, 'troll', or 'fanboi' these days because they make me want to be sick a little.

But thanks for saying the first part anyhow.

dubyahite · November 2011

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by dubyahite

Enough with the he said she said please!

Some people can't even admit that they are wrong otherwise this discussion wouldn't go down this path. Blaimng other for lack of reading comprehension when what you wrote is crystal clear just gives birth to drama like this. But like i said virtual ego is a big deal.

"That guy" is never going to admit anything though and you know it. It's pointless to argue with people like that. I understand the need to argue with people around here (i've been doing it a lot myself) and I've seen a lot of good posts from your lately, but this argument is going nowhere and totally irrelevant to the game in any way.

Also the quotes are getting really really long, and I have to scroll really far to read new stuff. Haha.

sfly2000 · November 2011

CAN YOU STOP DOING MEGA-QUOTES!!??

Instead cut out what it is you are ACTUALLY quoting....

I don't want to scroll through miles of the same quadriple quotes over and over again.

synn · November 2011

Originally posted by Cameo3
Sandboxing is for low life jerks that want ultimate control of their character...hardly needed in an MMO setting.

thats like saying theme parks are for e-peen idiots that need someone to point them in the right direction. The fact is that a sandbox game not only gives more control over a character but also more freedom to the player itself since they aren't confined by the limitations of their class. unless they choose to be.

...anyways sorry to the op for going off topic

Fadedbomb · November 2011

Originally posted by felyx

I just cant stand that SWTOR fans trying to convince everyone that SWTOR is the biggest hit since Wow. It is not. I know you hate wow, that is obvious and at some points I do agree, but SWTOr aint no solution for us bored mmo players who actually wants something better, it is pretty much another Wow dressed differently.

QFE

Zillen · November 2011

Sigh.

I really am getting sick and tired of trying to express myself over the internet. I mean, clearly our forefathers meant for this great tool to be used as a place of hatred, rage and bad grammar. It's not like it was designed for any greater purpose, like making the world a more connected and convenient place to live in.

The Great Flame War will go on forever. And not once, in all of my posts, will I get a well thought-out or constructive reply.

Unfortunately, for all of us, life must go on, as front-line infantry in the great war of the Trolls.

dubyahite · November 2011

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by felyx

I just cant stand that SWTOR fans trying to convince everyone that SWTOR is the biggest hit since Wow. It is not. I know you hate wow, that is obvious and at some points I do agree, but SWTOr aint no solution for us bored mmo players who actually wants something better, it is pretty much another Wow dressed differently.

QFE

For those of us that aren't "bored mmo players" (whatever that is) TOR is a great solution. And I don't really care about WoW anymore, had my fun with it. Over it. Doesn't mean I don't still like the Themepark MMO genre. And there are millions of us who do like it.

You guys are looking for sandbox games or some totally unthought of game that doesn't exist yet. In the mean time, I'll be having fun with a game I enjoy.

sfly2000 · November 2011

Originally posted by Mothanos
There cant be a more boring mmo then wow.

*snip*

I played wow for 7 years off an on,

You people are funny.

I think most here are former WoW players anyway, which just consolidates the fact that this is a WoW clone even more...

MMO.Maverick · November 2011

Originally posted by vesavius

No, you have misunderstood. I am saying that you have applied that label to me repeatedly in the past as a method of shutting down opinion and dismissing valid views. I am not talking specifically about this thread.

Why so mad? Now you're raking up grudges from the past into a discussion that was about the OP's thread, don't you think that is kind of petty?

Sorry, but your situation was completely different from this thread or the OP, if you want me to deal with your specific posting history and grudges from the past you apparently never got over them, then you should have said so instead of hijacking a discussion that wasn't about you just to relieve yourself of those grudges.

You're doing exactly the same, you're ignoring the discussion and argument made that in fact a number of critics ARE burnt out on all themepark MMO's or certain themepark MMO gameplay elements, which a number of them said so themselves, a derailment of that discussion in order to shut down my opinion and valid view about it, only to discuss your own agenda and soapbox.

Get over it and stick to the discussion at hand, else I consider it an ad hominem attack and thread derailment, simple as that.

dubyahite · November 2011

Originally posted by Zillen
Sigh.

I really am getting sick and tired of trying to express myself over the internet. I mean, clearly our forefathers meant for this great tool to be used as a place of hatred, rage and bad grammar. It's not like it was designed for any greater purpose, like making the world a more connected and convenient place to live in.

The Great Flame War will go on forever. And not once, in all of my posts, will I get a well thought-out or constructive reply.

Unfortunately, for all of us, life must go on, as front-line infantry in the great war of the Trolls.

The flame war is only present in your life because you choose to participate in it. If you think that we are misuisng the Internet for purposes that are unworthy of it, then you are as well. You chose to participate in this discussion.

For people that are fans of the game we are here to discuss something we enjoy and are anticipating greatly. These kinds of games usually form communities around them, and we are trying to participate in one of those communities. We did not come here for "hatred, rage, and bad grammar" but we are receiving plenty of it from people that don't have any interest in playing the game (or so they claim).

My question is that if you think this place is so terrible, why are you here?

Vesavius · November 2011

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Originally posted by vesavius

No, you have misunderstood. I am saying that you have applied that label to me repeatedly in the past as a method of shutting down opinion and dismissing valid views. I am not talking specifically about this thread.

Why so mad?

I didn't post anything that seems remotely 'mad'...

Nice try at baiting though

(sorry if you said something good beyond that point btw, I stopped reading there for obvious reasons )

But... anyhooo... I guess this has been settled now as much as it ever will be and we are just going round in circles at this point, so... lets get back to games.

*edit* Actually... NVM... I will just stick you back on ignore. Only took you off to see if you had 'evolved' in how you deal with folks.

Supersoups · November 2011

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by felyx

I just cant stand that SWTOR fans trying to convince everyone that SWTOR is the biggest hit since Wow. It is not. I know you hate wow, that is obvious and at some points I do agree, but SWTOr aint no solution for us bored mmo players who actually wants something better, it is pretty much another Wow dressed differently.

QFE

This is what i hate generalising and lumping everyone into one group. No i do not HATE WOW. I don't hate any video game, because this whole concept of hating games is beyond my understanding.

And who are these bored MMO players in general? people looking for something new? there is plenty of what you are looking for is already there. Your problem is that you went into SWTOR with over blown expectations and wanting things that were never promised. The features of SWTOR and what it offers has been stickied to very front page for almost a year now. Don't blame Bioware for things they never promised to you. A prudent and smart individual would just have a look at the feature list and make up their mind instead of doing all this drama show.

whilan · November 2011

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by felyx

I just cant stand that SWTOR fans trying to convince everyone that SWTOR is the biggest hit since Wow. It is not. I know you hate wow, that is obvious and at some points I do agree, but SWTOr aint no solution for us bored mmo players who actually wants something better, it is pretty much another Wow dressed differently.

QFE

So um being exicted about a game, then telling people to pick up a beta key for themsleves is trying to convience others it's the biggest hit? Really?

Com on, you guys are better then that. Course people who are excited are going to say it's great. It's called an opinion, but when it's actually asked if a person will like it, it's usually met with pick up a beta key and try it for yourself.

Heck half the time TOR fans are trying to beat off the WoW clone arguement, the not an MMO arguement, the VO are stupid arguement you name it and don't have nearly the time to start trying to convience others. Most fans (other then the sparse few that say it's the best thing ever) say they like it and are really enjoying themselves, if thats trying to convience others it's the biggest thing ever, i'm just plain confused, apparently i don't understand the term of convience, or maybe some other people don't understand that term as well as they'd like to think they do. *shrug*

Distopia · November 2011

Originally posted by sfly2000

Originally posted by Mothanos

There cant be a more boring mmo then wow.

*snip*

I played wow for 7 years off an on,

You people are funny.

I think most here are former WoW players anyway, which just consolidates the fact that this is a WoW clone even more...

Maybe it is maybe it isn't, maybe it's something inbetween.

Supersoups · November 2011

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by dubyahite

Originally posted by Supersoups

Originally posted by dubyahite

/snip

Some people can't even admit that they are wrong otherwise this discussion wouldn't go down this path. Blaimng other for lack of reading comprehension when what you wrote is crystal clear... /snip

"That guy" is... /snip

lol at the crude baiting. Have fun with that guys

Either one of you want to actually get back to talking about games now? Or are you both happy to continue attacking other forum users?

Mind quoting the attacks? please stop playing this victim card every single time the discussion gets too much for you. it is really boring and stale tactics. All i did was quoted your old posts to make one point clear 'don't accuse others for something you youself do on regular basis'.

MMO.Maverick · November 2011

Originally posted by vesavius

Originally posted by MMO.Maverick

Why so mad?

Now you're raking up grudges from the past into a discussion that was about the OP's thread, don't you think that is kind of petty?

Sorry, but your situation was completely different from this thread or the OP, if you want me to deal with your specific posting history and grudges from the past you apparently never got over them, then you should have said so instead of hijacking a discussion that wasn't about you just to relieve yourself of those grudges.

You're doing exactly the same, you're ignoring the discussion and argument made that in fact a number of critics ARE burnt out on all themepark MMO's or certain themepark MMO gameplay elements, which a number of them said so themselves, a derailment of that discussion in order to shut down my opinion and valid view about it, only to discuss your own agenda and soapbox.

Get over it and stick to the discussion at hand, else I consider it an ad hominem attack and thread derailment, simple as that.

I didn't post anything that seems remotely 'mad'...

Nice try at baiting though (lol)

(sorry if you said something good beyond that point btw, I stopped reading there for obvious reasons )

Shrug. I used your own quote 'why so mad', that you put earlier in a post to me, where it was just as irrelevant as apparently you consider my re-use of your own quote to be. It's nice that you think of it as baiting, this means that when you used the quote you yourself were apparently baiting

Seems to me like you're guilty of the exact same thing you accuse others of.

I think you've shown your colors enough, every additional post makes it obvious you do the things you accuse others of, you're not really looking for a discussion, which is clear if you consider your own words as 'baiting' when others use it, then it's clear what the intention was when you yourself used it.

Your silly ignoring of the rest of the post I made just because I used your own words against you, only confirms that intention

edit: I see you've edited your post since I caught you with your own words and your intentions were exposed, just lol

Do whatever you please. I agree though, if people are unable to hold a normal conversation without insulting or attacking their discussion partners, then not engaging is indeed the best they could do.

Zenjinx · November 2011

I found this to be more of a complaint than a review. You don't like it, that is fine.

I'm sorry but listing 3 fantasy games as something new, is really wrong.

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