Argueing about what's good and what's bad about GW2 now is like talking about the crash test results for next year's car models. You can hope, guess and wish as much as you like, but you'll NEVER be certain what the real results will look like.
I genuinely hope that GW2 will be a good game. It's my only hope in the MMORPG genre at the moment. After 6 years of WoW, themepark mmos are just stupidly boring - and Guild Wars will be the first experiment to change this.
http://flashrev.com Reviewing the best and worst flash games for the bored folks out there!
GO DRACHOSOR! He is referring to books; many of which have become movies. So he is on topic, and btw last time i checkes tanking AND helaing were part of the holy trinity.
Um.. No, he's completely off. Just because tanks and healers are part of the trinity doesn't mean they can't exist outside it. This whole discussion began when the poster I quoted above said he could not see how tanking, combat healing, or looting would fit into the movies and so I provided him examples as to why these (with the exception of looting) would be reasonable.
Excepting healing isn't a combat activity in the movies, generally takes a long time, and force healing is AT BEST IMPLIED. You're treating a surgery in a modern hospital like MMO healing, when the two are totally different.
Similarly, you ignore the vast majority of combat in the movies and books to try to find isolated examples that look like tanking. It's a superficial similarity, a fact that is emphasized by just how rare this is in the movies and novels. You act like anyone taking damage must be tanking, but this isn't so. Of course, you only examples are when there's only one person on a side in a combat. That's not what tanking is. Tanking is something you do as a group. In an MMO you say someone soloing a monster is "tanking" it because that's not an accurate reflection of what is going on. Don't do the same with the books or movies.
Again, this would be like saying a phalanx in the ancient world was a "tank" in the MMO sense. It's not remotely true. There are similarities, but vast differences as well. You ignore the vast differences.
Originally posted by Eir_S
Remember when Luke and Han stole the storm trooper outfits? Yeah. Gear upgrade. They both rolled Need.
This is exactly what I am talking about.
When you look at everything with WoW-glasses, it leads you to not understand anything that is going on. You call a disguise a gear upgrade. You call a temporary holding action "tanking." You try to force everything into preconceived notions and then fail to capture the truth of the situation.
More on topic, in GW2 you simply don't have a tank-healer-DPS mechanic, because that's not how the individual players interact with each other to form a functioning combat group. This is more true to fantasy and sci-fi lore than WoW-like mechanics, because you don't have Holy Trinity dynamics as the group combat dynamics in those either (the mere fact all examples to the contrary involved things out of combat or solo is evidence to that effect).
Dude, I was being totally facetious about the storm trooper outfits lol. But yeah, I'm a big GW2 supporter, I know how the "threat" and gameplay work. I never said that GW2 has a Trinity, and I'm thankful for that. Some people think being able to switch on the fly to deal with any situation is boring, I think "it's about time".
Except the thief. According to several Youtube vids, if you try to draw attention to yourself as a thief when there's a boss mob around, you die reeeeeally fast.
Dude, I was being totally facetious about the storm trooper outfits lol. But yeah, I'm a big GW2 supporter, I know how the "threat" and gameplay work. I never said that GW2 has a Trinity, and I'm thankful for that. Some people think being able to switch on the fly to deal with any situation is boring, I think "it's about time".
Except the thief. According to several Youtube vids, if you try to draw attention to yourself as a thief when there's a boss mob around, you die reeeeeally fast.
I tend to assume people aren't being facetious on the internet. Too often I did and found out the person was serious. Better to assume seriousness, then no one gets offended.
I agree that having to adjust your strategy on the fly to deal with a given situation is not boring. It adds a lot of depth to the combat, because you have to be aware of what is going on and change your tactics accordingly without the need for any combat gimmick to force the issue. It's neat stuff and I agree that it is about time...well past time, honestly.
Excepting healing isn't a combat activity in the movies, generally takes a long time, and force healing is AT BEST IMPLIED. You're treating a surgery in a modern hospital like MMO healing, when the two are totally different.
Similarly, you ignore the vast majority of combat in the movies and books to try to find isolated examples that look like tanking. It's a superficial similarity, a fact that is emphasized by just how rare this is in the movies and novels. You act like anyone taking damage must be tanking, but this isn't so. Of course, you only examples are when there's only one person on a side in a combat. That's not what tanking is. Tanking is something you do as a group. In an MMO you say someone soloing a monster is "tanking" it because that's not an accurate reflection of what is going on. Don't do the same with the books or movies.
Again, this would be like saying a phalanx in the ancient world was a "tank" in the MMO sense. It's not remotely true. There are similarities, but vast differences as well. You ignore the vast differences.
Exactly, Qui-Gon was in a group and he protected the group by drawing attention to himself. You're thinking this too much in terms of the Holy Trinity. Someone does not have to be in a group with DPS and Healers to be a Tank.
I genuinely hope that GW2 will be a good game. It's my only hope in the MMORPG genre at the moment. After 6 years of WoW, themepark mmos are just stupidly boring - and Guild Wars will be the first experiment to change this.
It will be a themepark mmo, though. I hope this doesn't burst your bubble.
Excepting healing isn't a combat activity in the movies, generally takes a long time, and force healing is AT BEST IMPLIED. You're treating a surgery in a modern hospital like MMO healing, when the two are totally different.
My favorite part was the quote, referring to healing, about the droid fixing Luke's arm.. that droid is going to be sought out by everyone, man.
I genuinely hope that GW2 will be a good game. It's my only hope in the MMORPG genre at the moment. After 6 years of WoW, themepark mmos are just stupidly boring - and Guild Wars will be the first experiment to change this.
It will be a themepark mmo, though. I hope this doesn't burst your bubble.
I like to think of GW2 as more of a "sandpark" MMO. At least when compared to games with non-dymanic content, gear checks, and forced VO'd quests with tons of dialog options that don't really change much in the end. It'll still fit the definition for some people, but it's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
Besides, with the preorders going on with TOR, people are obviously not quite through with traditional themeparks (sigh).
I genuinely hope that GW2 will be a good game. It's my only hope in the MMORPG genre at the moment. After 6 years of WoW, themepark mmos are just stupidly boring - and Guild Wars will be the first experiment to change this.
It will be a themepark mmo, though. I hope this doesn't burst your bubble.
I like to think of GW2 as more of a "sandpark" MMO. At least when compared to games with non-dymanic content, gear checks, and forced VO'd quests with tons of dialog options that don't really change much in the end. It'll still fit the definition for some people, but it's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
Besides, with the preorders going on with TOR, people are obviously not quite through with traditional themeparks (sigh).
Sandbox doesn't have dynamic events and there are still gear stats in them. I consider GW2 to be improved themepark 2.0 but it has nothing in common with sandbox to call it a sandpark.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I genuinely hope that GW2 will be a good game. It's my only hope in the MMORPG genre at the moment. After 6 years of WoW, themepark mmos are just stupidly boring - and Guild Wars will be the first experiment to change this.
It will be a themepark mmo, though. I hope this doesn't burst your bubble.
I like to think of GW2 as more of a "sandpark" MMO. At least when compared to games with non-dymanic content, gear checks, and forced VO'd quests with tons of dialog options that don't really change much in the end. It'll still fit the definition for some people, but it's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
Besides, with the preorders going on with TOR, people are obviously not quite through with traditional themeparks (sigh).
I agree. Core idea behind sandbox is that player choices and actions affect the world. GW2 implements that in Dynamic Events, and while freedom of changes is extremely limited, it's still something more sandbox-y than most themeparks offer. I wouldn't call it "sandpark", but it's definitely themepark with sandbox elements that may in future evolve in that direction.
Dude, I was being totally facetious about the storm trooper outfits lol. But yeah, I'm a big GW2 supporter, I know how the "threat" and gameplay work. I never said that GW2 has a Trinity, and I'm thankful for that. Some people think being able to switch on the fly to deal with any situation is boring, I think "it's about time".
Except the thief. According to several Youtube vids, if you try to draw attention to yourself as a thief when there's a boss mob around, you die reeeeeally fast.
Its not exactly a new idea its just been neglected in recent years for holy trinity enthusiets. The Chronicles of Spellborn did something very similar and I believe the Copernicus project is going along similar grounds. But when you think about it all it is, is a skill system put into a bracket of a modern UI, your just on average selecting more skills to put on a smaller list. The weapon skills system isn't new either, unless you think MU online is new. Its just a recent trend in non raiding mmorpgs.
Never heard of either of them, so I'll have to do the research. For now I'll take your word for it.
Ah I see, I meant games that weren't cancelled.
Yes sadly I know it was cancelled but it does use a similar approach of skill based, weapon skills and the everyone is a hybrid approach. But Copernicus is in development their single player prequel they are about to release. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Frq9aR7Uw&feature=related
Which itself very much resembles the Spellborn system, I think the new batch of non wow clones are testing out a new paradigm thats not quite Holy Trinity Themepark but also not quite sandbox, casual skill based PVE progression with heavy focus on competive pvp is the trend I am seeing in almost every game thats not a wow clone so far. The New Final Fantasy also tried elements of this, yet they decided to release an unfinised game for some reason. But I am not talking about game success as much as I am talking about game mechanics and for a point of reference my dear I might actually have to use a cancelled game or two, sorry to break your heart on that one.
It's fine, I just wondered if the reason it didn't survive was because the devs didn't use the Trinity system and people couldn't adapt back in 2007-2009 when the game was released in Europe (if I read the wiki correctly). This was just a speculation from knowing next to nothing about it, but I'm sure that wasn't the cause. Plenty of people are ready for a change in the Trinity mechanics or even the complete removal of them.
And yeah, the video you linked - I've seen that game before somewhat recently and was immediately impressed. When I found out it wasn't an MMO, it bothered me a little, but it still looks fantastic and I plan on trying it out if it's on PC. If not, I'll just wait or play something else. It's good to know GW2 is not the only game thinking of ways to advance the genre, much to the chagrin of people who Blizzard has convinced it should stay the same forever (surprisingly, including Bioware).
Comments
Remember when Luke and Han stole the storm trooper outfits? Yeah. Gear upgrade. They both rolled Need.
Argueing about what's good and what's bad about GW2 now is like talking about the crash test results for next year's car models. You can hope, guess and wish as much as you like, but you'll NEVER be certain what the real results will look like.
I genuinely hope that GW2 will be a good game. It's my only hope in the MMORPG genre at the moment. After 6 years of WoW, themepark mmos are just stupidly boring - and Guild Wars will be the first experiment to change this.
http://flashrev.com
Reviewing the best and worst flash games for the bored folks out there!
Excepting healing isn't a combat activity in the movies, generally takes a long time, and force healing is AT BEST IMPLIED. You're treating a surgery in a modern hospital like MMO healing, when the two are totally different.
Similarly, you ignore the vast majority of combat in the movies and books to try to find isolated examples that look like tanking. It's a superficial similarity, a fact that is emphasized by just how rare this is in the movies and novels. You act like anyone taking damage must be tanking, but this isn't so. Of course, you only examples are when there's only one person on a side in a combat. That's not what tanking is. Tanking is something you do as a group. In an MMO you say someone soloing a monster is "tanking" it because that's not an accurate reflection of what is going on. Don't do the same with the books or movies.
Again, this would be like saying a phalanx in the ancient world was a "tank" in the MMO sense. It's not remotely true. There are similarities, but vast differences as well. You ignore the vast differences.
This is exactly what I am talking about.
When you look at everything with WoW-glasses, it leads you to not understand anything that is going on. You call a disguise a gear upgrade. You call a temporary holding action "tanking." You try to force everything into preconceived notions and then fail to capture the truth of the situation.
More on topic, in GW2 you simply don't have a tank-healer-DPS mechanic, because that's not how the individual players interact with each other to form a functioning combat group. This is more true to fantasy and sci-fi lore than WoW-like mechanics, because you don't have Holy Trinity dynamics as the group combat dynamics in those either (the mere fact all examples to the contrary involved things out of combat or solo is evidence to that effect).
Dude, I was being totally facetious about the storm trooper outfits lol. But yeah, I'm a big GW2 supporter, I know how the "threat" and gameplay work. I never said that GW2 has a Trinity, and I'm thankful for that. Some people think being able to switch on the fly to deal with any situation is boring, I think "it's about time".
Except the thief. According to several Youtube vids, if you try to draw attention to yourself as a thief when there's a boss mob around, you die reeeeeally fast.
I tend to assume people aren't being facetious on the internet. Too often I did and found out the person was serious. Better to assume seriousness, then no one gets offended.
I agree that having to adjust your strategy on the fly to deal with a given situation is not boring. It adds a lot of depth to the combat, because you have to be aware of what is going on and change your tactics accordingly without the need for any combat gimmick to force the issue. It's neat stuff and I agree that it is about time...well past time, honestly.
It will be a themepark mmo, though. I hope this doesn't burst your bubble.
My favorite part was the quote, referring to healing, about the droid fixing Luke's arm.. that droid is going to be sought out by everyone, man.
Hotkey 1: Cybernetic limb repair
I like to think of GW2 as more of a "sandpark" MMO. At least when compared to games with non-dymanic content, gear checks, and forced VO'd quests with tons of dialog options that don't really change much in the end. It'll still fit the definition for some people, but it's a step in the right direction as far as I'm concerned.
Besides, with the preorders going on with TOR, people are obviously not quite through with traditional themeparks (sigh).
Sandbox doesn't have dynamic events and there are still gear stats in them. I consider GW2 to be improved themepark 2.0 but it has nothing in common with sandbox to call it a sandpark.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I agree. Core idea behind sandbox is that player choices and actions affect the world. GW2 implements that in Dynamic Events, and while freedom of changes is extremely limited, it's still something more sandbox-y than most themeparks offer. I wouldn't call it "sandpark", but it's definitely themepark with sandbox elements that may in future evolve in that direction.
Its not exactly a new idea its just been neglected in recent years for holy trinity enthusiets. The Chronicles of Spellborn did something very similar and I believe the Copernicus project is going along similar grounds. But when you think about it all it is, is a skill system put into a bracket of a modern UI, your just on average selecting more skills to put on a smaller list. The weapon skills system isn't new either, unless you think MU online is new. Its just a recent trend in non raiding mmorpgs.
Never heard of either of them, so I'll have to do the research. For now I'll take your word for it.
Ah I see, I meant games that weren't cancelled.
Yes sadly I know it was cancelled but it does use a similar approach of skill based, weapon skills and the everyone is a hybrid approach. But Copernicus is in development their single player prequel they are about to release. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m2Frq9aR7Uw&feature=related
Which itself very much resembles the Spellborn system, I think the new batch of non wow clones are testing out a new paradigm thats not quite Holy Trinity Themepark but also not quite sandbox, casual skill based PVE progression with heavy focus on competive pvp is the trend I am seeing in almost every game thats not a wow clone so far. The New Final Fantasy also tried elements of this, yet they decided to release an unfinised game for some reason. But I am not talking about game success as much as I am talking about game mechanics and for a point of reference my dear I might actually have to use a cancelled game or two, sorry to break your heart on that one.
It's fine, I just wondered if the reason it didn't survive was because the devs didn't use the Trinity system and people couldn't adapt back in 2007-2009 when the game was released in Europe (if I read the wiki correctly). This was just a speculation from knowing next to nothing about it, but I'm sure that wasn't the cause. Plenty of people are ready for a change in the Trinity mechanics or even the complete removal of them.
And yeah, the video you linked - I've seen that game before somewhat recently and was immediately impressed. When I found out it wasn't an MMO, it bothered me a little, but it still looks fantastic and I plan on trying it out if it's on PC. If not, I'll just wait or play something else. It's good to know GW2 is not the only game thinking of ways to advance the genre, much to the chagrin of people who Blizzard has convinced it should stay the same forever (surprisingly, including Bioware).