Not just that Skyrim is off line also because it was released on PC and console. So there is no comparison when it comes to sales figure.
However, the real picture of SWTOR subs would be more clear after first couple o fmonths.
thats why the should have just went with KTOR cross-platform game again, with co-op play, and PVP. its pretty much what TOR is an online version of KTOR.
making KTOR a mmorpg doesnt some how make it better. once people are 50 and leveling is over the game becomes KTOR with a monthly fee. especially if you solo the whole game which it seems like most people are doing.
Not just that Skyrim is off line also because it was released on PC and console. So there is no comparison when it comes to sales figure.
However, the real picture of SWTOR subs would be more clear after first couple o fmonths.
thats why the should have just went with KTOR cross-platform game again, with co-op play, and PVP. its pretty much what TOR is an online version of KTOR.
making KTOR a mmorpg doesnt some how make it better. once people are 50 and leveling is over the game becomes KTOR with a monthly fee.
As long as they keep adding content, that's just fine with me.
Not just that Skyrim is off line also because it was released on PC and console. So there is no comparison when it comes to sales figure.
However, the real picture of SWTOR subs would be more clear after first couple o fmonths.
thats why the should have just went with KTOR cross-platform game again, with co-op play, and PVP. its pretty much what TOR is an online version of KTOR.
making KTOR a mmorpg doesnt some how make it better. once people are 50 and leveling is over the game becomes KTOR with a monthly fee. especially if you solo the whole game which it seems like most people are doing.
Any MMO that doesn't add content beyond its level cap is going to have problems so this is not something only that is going to effect SWTOR. However, SWTOR is releasing with plenty of thigns to do at lvl 50. As far as what seems to you is not necessarily true because i am grouping with players on regular basis and there is always someone looking for heroics and operations. So nope msot are not soloing there way to lvl 50 atleast that is not how it looks on my server.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6. US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian. Subs will be so low there is no need for more Snoocky-How many servers? The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
Not just that Skyrim is off line also because it was released on PC and console. So there is no comparison when it comes to sales figure.
However, the real picture of SWTOR subs would be more clear after first couple o fmonths.
thats why the should have just went with KTOR cross-platform game again, with co-op play, and PVP. its pretty much what TOR is an online version of KTOR.
making KTOR a mmorpg doesnt some how make it better. once people are 50 and leveling is over the game becomes KTOR with a monthly fee.
As long as they keep adding content, that's just fine with me.
setup the servers like diablo, charge for downloadable updates every few months like they do in borderlands . instead they want you to wait 6-8months paying $15 a month for an update to a game simlar to offline KTOR.
the game could of also went GWs model since TOR is all instanced and plays like a single player game.
Congrats to Bioware and team for hitting the one million mark, now the question is how many will we keep and how many more will come into the game. I won't pop the cork yet until after the free month, but so far the doom and gloomers and haters have been proven wrong with their predictions.
Congrats to Bioware and team for hitting the one million mark, now the question is how many will we keep and how many more will come into the game. I won't pop the cork yet until after the free month, but so far the doom and gloomers and haters have been proven wrong with their predictions.
Congrats to Bioware and team for hitting the one million mark, now the question is how many will we keep and how many more will come into the game. I won't pop the cork yet until after the free month, but so far the doom and gloomers and haters have been proven wrong with their predictions.
I just wanted to make some minor corrections on Aion sales numbers. The 400,000 number used above was actually pre-orders for the US alone, and before the actual release. Actual unit sales (I'm assuming this is total boxes shipped at release as opposed to active subs), was just slightly under 1 million for both North America and Europe combined.
Keep in mind, Aion world wide subscription numbers (actual active player accounts, both subscription and cafe pay-by-the-hour) BEFORE the western release were already over 3.5 million. And that number may or may not have included China, which due to the way NCSoft handles their games in China, through a third party, usually aren't factored into the specific game figures NCSoft used in their financial reports.
Also, Aion had, in effect, a second release with the 2.0 update, with a new boxed edition (Aion 2.0 Assault on Balaurea) which apparenlty had pretty good sales, although I have no actual figures on that. Also, because you could add it to a current Aion account and get 30 days and some pets, many current players (including me) bought a copy. While I have no exact figures, Aion total sales in the west most likely have been well over 1.5 million, I've even heard some industry watchers say just over 2 million actual active separate accounts (not concurrent), including the Aion 2.0 sales, for the west since release. With the annoucement of the switch to F2P in Europe (notice NCSoft is suddenly switching most of their games to non-sub after City of Heroes apparently did so well going that route) copies of Aion 2.0 are being snapped up by those planning to give it a try so they don't have to download the client, which is what, something like 18 gigs uncompressed. 30 days, some pets and no lengthly download for $10 or so, great deal for those planning on trying it when it goes F2P, which I'm sure it will do in North America too.
Anyway, only WAR and Aion (of recently released games) reached 1 million active concurrent subs in the west in recent years. AOC sold, what, 1.2 million boxes but apparently never hit 1 million concurrent subscriptions. Rift never did hit 1 million concurrent; they released the 1 million number same as SWTOR, with included beta, pre-order, etc., the dreaded "registered" word, used to pad numbers in the industry. The fact Rift's boxed / digital prices were reduced so soon after release (I saw it regularly being offered for less than $20 only 3 months afer release) and in recent months has almost constantly been available for $5 to $10, says much about their sales. I do want to say I think Trion was very smart in doing that, as it likely has kept the Rift player base much higher than it would have been otherwise, which in itself keeps players subbing that might have otherwise left.
I had predicted close to 2 million initial sales at release (that is actual boxes/digital editions) for SWTOR, so the release number of 1 million using "registrations" came as quite a shock, at least to me. Should be interesting to see how things pan out for SWTOR over the next 6 months, and the industry in general. I was pretty sure the IP alone would sell 2 million boxes. Maybe it has, but with many people buying it for their kids and not understanding it is a MMORPG, so those are still under the Christmas tree?
And yes, I have to keep track of this kind of information for my work (I'm not employed by a MMORPG company, so no conflict of interest in this post), but it is also just interesting as a MMORPG player.
Congrats to Bioware and team for hitting the one million mark, now the question is how many will we keep and how many more will come into the game. I won't pop the cork yet until after the free month, but so far the doom and gloomers and haters have been proven wrong with their predictions.
I'll take an excited fanboy over a whiny ass hater shitting all over everything.
If devs had to make MMOs for the whiny ass hater players we'd have really interesting MMOs.
that no one would play.
Not true. As much as some people have enjoyed trying to make the ridiculous concept "haters don't play games, they're too busy hating" gospel lately, it's simply rhetoric from whoever's unhappy about people putting their game down at the time. Haters of one game would definitely mean business for a game that's nothing like the one they hate.
I just want to add this in here, because it ended up in that locked "duplicate" thread, and I think it's important. It's the reason the early game is so vital to hook casual players, replayability is important to hook altoholics, and the endgame is so important to hook everyone, eventually.
It's the reason box sales and launch month subs are nothing, without retention. 50k sales, 500k, or millions, a successful MMO needs to be built for retention.
Originally posted by Lowcaian
Originally posted by Vhaln
The interpretation I disagree with is at the end there. You think a million sales at launch is bad? Even WoW launched with less, didn't it? Where every game since WoW has failed, is not in launch sales, but in retention. If a game actually manages to hold onto a substantial percentage of its subs, that means its players are happy, and happy players tend to beget more happy players, and THEN the game takes off.
I'm not saying anything about TOR here, one way or another. Just the idea that a million sales isn't good. It would be more than good enough, if a game is built well enough to retain enough of those players.
I partially agree but the thing is that when WoW launched mmorpg weren't mainstream as they are now. More people know about the genre than what was the case then so it could be argued that 1 millon now is not better than 600 000 for example was back then.
Ok, but even if that's true, my point is still that WoW succeeded because it retained so many players. Not because of how well it sold at launch. Same was true of EQ, and DAOC, when the market was much smaller. Their launch numbers were laughable by today's standards, but they didn't shrink, they grew. Without retention, you can't get that sort of snowball effect, no matter how much you launch with. and with retention, a million is plenty.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
GRATZ! Just reached a million around the same time that RIFT did.
And it will nose drive with the Amount of Subs in the same time frame as rift 1-2 months guarentee
I kind of hope not.
Hear me out guys.
If TOR does alright and stays moderately successful then maybe investors will clamor harder to find that something missing that will bring in 10 million subs. Or even 2 or 3 million.
Because if TOR tanked, EA's the kind of company that'd go out of its way to just trash the whole genre.
Actually I don't believe that is correct. If SWTOR fails then it can be only good for the industry because it will help to prove to developers and investors that people really do want something different. It will further prove that people are tired of the same continuous WOW style gameplay and mechanics being produced over and over again. Suffice to say that with SWTOR's failure, it will lead to different ideas and a refreshing approach to the genre. If EA chooses to snuff the industry over it, that is their right, but they will loose out in the end anyway. Their track record with MMOs isn't exactly first class to being with.
You have the right to disagree with my opinions, and I will freely state that is all this is, but SWTOR is not that innovative, and it certainly does stand, as BioWare has recently claimed, "...as one of the greatest and most ambitious achievements in video game history." At best it simply copies World of Warcraft's mechanics and gameplay with story elements and voice overs slapped on, and I think most people are smart enough to see through that thin veneer.
GRATZ! Just reached a million around the same time that RIFT did.
Rift fans are the most delusional out there.
Rift NEVER hit 1 million concurrent subscribers. It did reach a million people who at one point in time subscribed to the game. Look it up and stop spreading false information.
Congrats to Bioware and team for hitting the one million mark, now the question is how many will we keep and how many more will come into the game. I won't pop the cork yet until after the free month, but so far the doom and gloomers and haters have been proven wrong with their predictions.
I'll take an excited fanboy over a whiny ass hater shitting all over everything.
If devs had to make MMOs for the whiny ass hater players we'd have really interesting MMOs.
that no one would play.
Not true. As much as some people have enjoyed trying to make the ridiculous concept "haters don't play games, they're too busy hating" gospel lately, it's simply rhetoric from whoever's unhappy about people putting their game down at the time. Haters of one game would definitely mean business for a game that's nothing like the one they hate.
It's called market competition.
So logic would have you believe... but those games exist... and those games are not popular or being played by those "haters".
Not really, it's individual quality levels that dictate whether haters stay or leave. If a game is bad, their conviction alone won't keep them playing. That's like saying people that hate SWTOR will play Pacman because it's radically different. But put two games of similar levels of quality against one another and well, you have competition.
GRATZ! Just reached a million around the same time that RIFT did.
And it will nose drive with the Amount of Subs in the same time frame as rift 1-2 months guarentee
I kind of hope not.
Hear me out guys.
If TOR does alright and stays moderately successful then maybe investors will clamor harder to find that something missing that will bring in 10 million subs. Or even 2 or 3 million.
Because if TOR tanked, EA's the kind of company that'd go out of its way to just trash the whole genre.
Actually I don't believe that is correct. If SWTOR fails then it can be only good for the industry because it will help to prove to developers and investors that people really do want something different. It will further prove that people are tired of the same continuous WOW style gameplay and mechanics being produced over and over again. Suffice to say that with SWTOR's failure, it will lead to different ideas and a refreshing approach to the genre. If EA chooses to snuff the industry over it, that is their right, but they will loose out in the end anyway. Their track record with MMOs isn't exactly first class to being with.
You have the right to disagree with my opinions, and I will freely state that is all this is, but SWTOR is not that innovative, and it certainly does stand, as BioWare has recently claimed, "...as one of the greatest and most ambitious achievements in video game history." At best it simply copies World of Warcraft's mechanics and gameplay with story elements and voice overs slapped on, and I think most people are smart enough to see through that thin veneer.
NO it does not and since everyone I've talked to in game is absolutely loving it - Id say you're in the minority.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
I think you guys missed a little flaw in that article, swtor doesnt have just 1 million that is a misprint, its missing a 0 after that one.
Try to catch errors seriously guys. ~_~
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Pretty good. I wonder how many people bought the game though. I expected that number to be much, much higher.
Could you elaborate what made you think it would be higher?
It's a PC MMORPG game, and isn't that the niche combination in modern gaming genre?
Them doing a million initial buyers is a tremendous success, and if they manage to keep half of that in 6Mo (I'm afraid they end up much lower) marker, they're a huge success in their niche.
Pretty good. I wonder how many people bought the game though. I expected that number to be much, much higher.
Could you elaborate what made you think it would be higher?
It's a PC MMORPG game, and isn't that the niche combination in modern gaming genre?
Them doing a million initial buyers is a tremendous success, and if they manage to keep half of that in 6Mo (I'm afraid they end up much lower) marker, they're a huge success in their niche.
I expected alot higher then 1m, its close to the same numbers as aoc/war. Rift cheated as they had one million registerd users but they did include open beta accounts.
I now see its unrealistic, but i did guess it would have around 2m early on and losse a chunk of em after 1st month
They would have a lot more if they were not charging £44.99 for an MMORPG to download. Even Call of Duty with its vast 'following' and its 6.4 million units sold in the first 24 hours did not stay at £44.99 for long. I know I sound tight but seriously there's no way I would pay that price for an MMO.
Wisdom, bro.
I paid 36€ for BF3 Limited Edition before launch and it doesn't have a monthly fee.
Just bought EVE for 6,80€ from Steam Christmas sale and that includes a month gaming time WITHOUT GIVING OUT YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION.
Pretty good. I wonder how many people bought the game though. I expected that number to be much, much higher.
Could you elaborate what made you think it would be higher?
It's a PC MMORPG game, and isn't that the niche combination in modern gaming genre?
Them doing a million initial buyers is a tremendous success, and if they manage to keep half of that in 6Mo (I'm afraid they end up much lower) marker, they're a huge success in their niche.
Well, there were lenty of sources saying that there were 3 million preorders a while before launch.
Not that 1 million is bad or anything, but I thought it would be more as well based on those threads. Just loojk back a few weeks in the TOR forum and you will find many people stating 3 million preorders.
I don't think it will get 6M players, 0,5-3M is rather likely. Anything over a million for more than 3 months is great, so far have only Wow done that.
Comments
thats why the should have just went with KTOR cross-platform game again, with co-op play, and PVP. its pretty much what TOR is an online version of KTOR.
making KTOR a mmorpg doesnt some how make it better. once people are 50 and leveling is over the game becomes KTOR with a monthly fee. especially if you solo the whole game which it seems like most people are doing.
As long as they keep adding content, that's just fine with me.
Yep I was referring to the 2 mill as well..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Any MMO that doesn't add content beyond its level cap is going to have problems so this is not something only that is going to effect SWTOR. However, SWTOR is releasing with plenty of thigns to do at lvl 50. As far as what seems to you is not necessarily true because i am grouping with players on regular basis and there is always someone looking for heroics and operations. So nope msot are not soloing there way to lvl 50 atleast that is not how it looks on my server.
How many servers SWTOR will launch with on release?
ShredderSE - Umm how many do they need? Maybe 6.
US, EU, Asian, France, German and Russian.
Subs will be so low there is no need for more
Snoocky-How many servers?
The first 3 months a lot...after that 2 i guess, one for PVE and 1 for PVP...
Thorbrand - SWTOR doesn't have longevity at all. Might be one of the shortest lived MMOs.
I guess it isn´t rocket science to see this number climb ´til January 20th at least?
setup the servers like diablo, charge for downloadable updates every few months like they do in borderlands . instead they want you to wait 6-8months paying $15 a month for an update to a game simlar to offline KTOR.
the game could of also went GWs model since TOR is all instanced and plays like a single player game.
and it would have sold a TON more.
but anyway enough derail. haha.
Oh look a fanboy. How cute.
If devs had to make MMOs for the whiny ass hater players we'd have really interesting MMOs.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
that no one would play.
instead they are making them for the ass kissing fanboys.. don't see how its much better in this case...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/339443/Video-FollowUp-Guide-For-Enhancing-Graphics-and-Performance-in-SWTORSorry-still-Nvidia-Only.html
I just wanted to make some minor corrections on Aion sales numbers. The 400,000 number used above was actually pre-orders for the US alone, and before the actual release. Actual unit sales (I'm assuming this is total boxes shipped at release as opposed to active subs), was just slightly under 1 million for both North America and Europe combined.
Keep in mind, Aion world wide subscription numbers (actual active player accounts, both subscription and cafe pay-by-the-hour) BEFORE the western release were already over 3.5 million. And that number may or may not have included China, which due to the way NCSoft handles their games in China, through a third party, usually aren't factored into the specific game figures NCSoft used in their financial reports.
Also, Aion had, in effect, a second release with the 2.0 update, with a new boxed edition (Aion 2.0 Assault on Balaurea) which apparenlty had pretty good sales, although I have no actual figures on that. Also, because you could add it to a current Aion account and get 30 days and some pets, many current players (including me) bought a copy. While I have no exact figures, Aion total sales in the west most likely have been well over 1.5 million, I've even heard some industry watchers say just over 2 million actual active separate accounts (not concurrent), including the Aion 2.0 sales, for the west since release. With the annoucement of the switch to F2P in Europe (notice NCSoft is suddenly switching most of their games to non-sub after City of Heroes apparently did so well going that route) copies of Aion 2.0 are being snapped up by those planning to give it a try so they don't have to download the client, which is what, something like 18 gigs uncompressed. 30 days, some pets and no lengthly download for $10 or so, great deal for those planning on trying it when it goes F2P, which I'm sure it will do in North America too.
Anyway, only WAR and Aion (of recently released games) reached 1 million active concurrent subs in the west in recent years. AOC sold, what, 1.2 million boxes but apparently never hit 1 million concurrent subscriptions. Rift never did hit 1 million concurrent; they released the 1 million number same as SWTOR, with included beta, pre-order, etc., the dreaded "registered" word, used to pad numbers in the industry. The fact Rift's boxed / digital prices were reduced so soon after release (I saw it regularly being offered for less than $20 only 3 months afer release) and in recent months has almost constantly been available for $5 to $10, says much about their sales. I do want to say I think Trion was very smart in doing that, as it likely has kept the Rift player base much higher than it would have been otherwise, which in itself keeps players subbing that might have otherwise left.
I had predicted close to 2 million initial sales at release (that is actual boxes/digital editions) for SWTOR, so the release number of 1 million using "registrations" came as quite a shock, at least to me. Should be interesting to see how things pan out for SWTOR over the next 6 months, and the industry in general. I was pretty sure the IP alone would sell 2 million boxes. Maybe it has, but with many people buying it for their kids and not understanding it is a MMORPG, so those are still under the Christmas tree?
And yes, I have to keep track of this kind of information for my work (I'm not employed by a MMORPG company, so no conflict of interest in this post), but it is also just interesting as a MMORPG player.
Not true. As much as some people have enjoyed trying to make the ridiculous concept "haters don't play games, they're too busy hating" gospel lately, it's simply rhetoric from whoever's unhappy about people putting their game down at the time. Haters of one game would definitely mean business for a game that's nothing like the one they hate.
It's called market competition.
I just want to add this in here, because it ended up in that locked "duplicate" thread, and I think it's important. It's the reason the early game is so vital to hook casual players, replayability is important to hook altoholics, and the endgame is so important to hook everyone, eventually.
It's the reason box sales and launch month subs are nothing, without retention. 50k sales, 500k, or millions, a successful MMO needs to be built for retention.
Ok, but even if that's true, my point is still that WoW succeeded because it retained so many players. Not because of how well it sold at launch. Same was true of EQ, and DAOC, when the market was much smaller. Their launch numbers were laughable by today's standards, but they didn't shrink, they grew. Without retention, you can't get that sort of snowball effect, no matter how much you launch with. and with retention, a million is plenty.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Actually I don't believe that is correct. If SWTOR fails then it can be only good for the industry because it will help to prove to developers and investors that people really do want something different. It will further prove that people are tired of the same continuous WOW style gameplay and mechanics being produced over and over again. Suffice to say that with SWTOR's failure, it will lead to different ideas and a refreshing approach to the genre. If EA chooses to snuff the industry over it, that is their right, but they will loose out in the end anyway. Their track record with MMOs isn't exactly first class to being with.
You have the right to disagree with my opinions, and I will freely state that is all this is, but SWTOR is not that innovative, and it certainly does stand, as BioWare has recently claimed, "...as one of the greatest and most ambitious achievements in video game history." At best it simply copies World of Warcraft's mechanics and gameplay with story elements and voice overs slapped on, and I think most people are smart enough to see through that thin veneer.
Rift fans are the most delusional out there.
Rift NEVER hit 1 million concurrent subscribers. It did reach a million people who at one point in time subscribed to the game. Look it up and stop spreading false information.
So logic would have you believe... but those games exist... and those games are not popular or being played by those "haters".
Not really, it's individual quality levels that dictate whether haters stay or leave. If a game is bad, their conviction alone won't keep them playing. That's like saying people that hate SWTOR will play Pacman because it's radically different. But put two games of similar levels of quality against one another and well, you have competition.
NO it does not and since everyone I've talked to in game is absolutely loving it - Id say you're in the minority.
Currently playing SWTOR and it's MUCH better than it was at launch.
I think you guys missed a little flaw in that article, swtor doesnt have just 1 million that is a misprint, its missing a 0 after that one.
Try to catch errors seriously guys. ~_~
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
Could you elaborate what made you think it would be higher?
It's a PC MMORPG game, and isn't that the niche combination in modern gaming genre?
Them doing a million initial buyers is a tremendous success, and if they manage to keep half of that in 6Mo (I'm afraid they end up much lower) marker, they're a huge success in their niche.
Cool! I seriously can't wait till tommorow to finally play it
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=67935
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=79786
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=83564
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=82443
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=83816
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=74016
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=82842
I expected alot higher then 1m, its close to the same numbers as aoc/war. Rift cheated as they had one million registerd users but they did include open beta accounts.
I now see its unrealistic, but i did guess it would have around 2m early on and losse a chunk of em after 1st month
Wisdom, bro.
I paid 36€ for BF3 Limited Edition before launch and it doesn't have a monthly fee.
Just bought EVE for 6,80€ from Steam Christmas sale and that includes a month gaming time WITHOUT GIVING OUT YOUR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION.
Well, there were lenty of sources saying that there were 3 million preorders a while before launch.
Not that 1 million is bad or anything, but I thought it would be more as well based on those threads. Just loojk back a few weeks in the TOR forum and you will find many people stating 3 million preorders.
I don't think it will get 6M players, 0,5-3M is rather likely. Anything over a million for more than 3 months is great, so far have only Wow done that.