I like that I can set my companions to do the crafting. This way I don't have to stand and look at bars filling up. I can enjoy playing the game and still advance my craft at the same time.
In modern MMO's, the philosophy is that all players must be able to do everything in the game, or as close as possible.
So everyone must be able to craft, and crafting must not "interfere" with gameplay. The crafting minigames that DO exist in most AAA games are trivial, because the average player must be able to complete them with a high success rate. So the only way to make crafting "special" is to introduce rare recipes and resources, which are "rare" by virtue of the fact that they require a lot of grinding to unlock or acquire. The RNG determines your success, and beating it comes down to how many times you are prepared to "roll the dice".
In a crafting-oriented game like ATitD, the crafting minigames are a real challenge, and require actual player skill. Only a handful of people in the game can produce really high quality items with any consistency, because the rest of the playerbase simply cannot easily master the minigames. That scenario would not be acceptable to the majority of SWTOR (or EQ or Rift or WoW) players.
SWTOR is not the first game to allow a player to craft without requiring them to be in a workshop or standing next to a crafting machine. SWG and EVE did that years ago by having factories. Fallen Earth did it by allowing you to start a crafting job anywhere, anytime, and immediately continue with your normal play.
SWG factories were for mass producing your items and/or putting them into crates so people could carry a bunch of them in one slot of their inventory. Also, if you were making a complex item, there was a lot of work that led up to putting your schematic and resources into the factory. The toughtest items in the game took days to make there. I remember making rocket launchers for Bounty Hunters, and it took me a couple days because I had to manufacture multuple sub components, each having their own resources, combine some of those into larger components, then do a final long run to put them all together into a rocket launcher. Oh, and let's not forget that I had to get some of the sub-components from crafers in other crafting professions (I know, scary right?). Completely different system, and SWTOR doesn't even scratch the surface.
I also played Fallen Earth. While you didn't need a crafting machine, crafting in that game is much, much more complex and diverse than SWTOR. Again, bad example. I don't know EVE's crafting, but I assume by the depth and complexity of the game in general that it was also much more challenging than the mind-numbing system SWTOR has.
I understand those games are sandboxes and a hybrid (FE). I don't expect modern systems in themepark games to be that engaging, because people have the attention span of pocket lint, but what we have now is seriously lacking in any sense of accomplishment whatsoever. They might as well just sell you the item you want to craft for the relative cost of the materials while playing a three second manufacturing sound. It would be about the same experience.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I agree with the OP. Even though my companions are doing the crafting, "I" am the one who is really crafting. I'm the one pushing the buttons. It's just a different spin on an old system.
I do like this system better though. Compare this to Lotro or WoW or similar crafting systems where you still have to push the button, but then go afk for 15 minutes while you wait for the cast bar to fill 50+ times. In this game, you can keep doing whatever while that cast bar fills, which for me is a welcome addition.
I enjoy how the crafting works. Here is what I did: When I picked up my 3 trades, I headed to the other starter world to hunt datacrons. While I explored and filled out my codex, I constantly sent my companion off on errands to earn mats for crafting. Once I had enought to make something, I had him make those too, all while not interupting my exploration.
Breath. Of. Fresh. Air.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
i craft and got near 350/400 in 3 profession.fun part is when you get 3+ companion you can send all of them to craft while you do pvp,space,flashpoints etc.
Not time consuming like other mmo where you stand in front of a forge making x number of items to gain skill.
I love the crafting in this game! I can either gather materials myself or I can send my companions out to gather so that I can keep questing. It is really a fantastic system. I have been spending all my credits on it and when I am not feeling like doing anything active, I just start sending my companions places.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
i craft and got near 350/400 in 3 profession.fun part is when you get 3+ companion you can send all of them to craft while you do pvp,space,flashpoints etc.
Not time consuming like other mmo where you stand in front of a forge making x number of items to gain skill.
Again, it's not crafting if you send your companions on imaginary missions (just a timer where they disappear and then reappear minutes later with loot). Crafting is when you get invoved in the process, find the resources, learn the recipes, and build the items. If you are playing a game with deep crafting, it will be even more involved than that.
This brings up another point. Perhaps these games should have simple crafting for the masses, but deeper crafting with more customization options for those who want to work at it.
I think it sucks that all of us can sit here and come up with a million new features for these games just by discussing them, yet we keep getting the same or even more dumbed-down features from these developers every time they release a new game.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
This is about crafting, and the recent change in mechanic design to allow companions/NPCs to craft for player characters.
Recent? crafting was been done by the companions since crafting ws introduced in beta. That is one of the things I really liked about the game, no time sink of sitting in a crafting hall making igots or whatever. With only 1 comapnion it has to be timed at first to coincide with your town runs or at logout but once you get your second and third companions you can kick some items out
You misunderstand. Perhaps I should have worded that more clearly. My meaning was the recent change (over the last several years) in development direction whereby the crafting mechanic employs the use of companions or NPCs.
Originally posted by MindTrigger
Originally posted by hercules
i craft and got near 350/400 in 3 profession.fun part is when you get 3+ companion you can send all of them to craft while you do pvp,space,flashpoints etc.
Not time consuming like other mmo where you stand in front of a forge making x number of items to gain skill.
Again, it's not crafting if you send your companions on imaginary missions (just a timer where they disappear and then reappear minutes later with loot). Crafting is when you get invoved in the process, find the resources, learn the recipes, and build the items. If you are playing a game with deep crafting, it will be even more involved than that.
This brings up another point. Perhaps these games should have simple crafting for the masses, but deeper crafting with more customization options for those who want to work at it.
I think it sucks that all of us can sit here and come up with a million new features for these games just by discussing them, yet we keep getting the same or even more dumbed-down features from these developers every time they release a new game.
You nailed it. Exactly. Also though, I would add the process whereby the companion dissapears and magically returns with the crafted item is no different than a progress bar in a non-companion based system, which could either require you to stand their or not stand their. The argument that robust and deep crafting systems tie players down to a crafting table, is a strawman argument. Yes, some mechanics have done that in the past, and some still do, but no one is saying that system is the best, nor the only one that should ever be used.
So... not only do they have NPCs filling out your "party," they have NPCs craft items for you? This is an MMORPG, right?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I agree, Mischiff. Crafting should share a equal portion of importance in the game, otherwise the developers shouldn't bother.
Let's follow that to its logical conclusion:
Games without crafting--the bitching becomes about a missing feature, "this game is fail".
Games where crafting is of equal importance--the bitching becomes about repetitive stress injuries and reward without risk.
Games where crafting is of lesser importance--the bitching becomes about "not worth the time to bother".
Did I miss any alternatives? More importantly; is there, can there possibly be, any outcome that makes everyone happy?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
swtor crafting is boring. it's not even a well thou8ght out time sink.
swg was fun. .. cant' remember the times early on when I had crafters askingme to clear mobs around their harvesters. The biggest arms crafter became my best friend cu8z of that and I had nice weapons cu8z of it. when i tried crafting it was f8un trying to get the best resources to get the best res8ults. I made friends that way too trading what i did best for what i needed.
I miss those days
VG crafting made me cry. you8 had to click and the interface was junk. it looked interesting though.
I think asherons call had a better crafting system than tor. their tinkering deal wou8ld let you8 create a pretty unique look.
So... not only do they have NPCs filling out your "party," they have NPCs craft items for you? This is an MMORPG, right?
What's that got to do with being an MMORPG? Big world, supports thousands of players at once: Massively MultiPlayer
I'm a bounty hunter in the Star Wars universe: RPG
Tada.
It has *everything* to do with an MMORPG. "Massive Multiplayer Online" in particular.
So, BioWare implements a crafting system? Where supposedly players could craft items? What's the point of a crafting system where the players are essentially self-sufficient without requiring support of others? It's bad enough the game has NPCs that you group with, and now you can send them to gather your resources and build items for you?
So again, BioWare goes with an NPC system that fills your party, and on top of it, CRAFTS items for you. It's a glowing example of one of the things going wrong with the MMORPG genre: An increased trend to shut out player interdependency, killing more and more the "Multiplayer" part of MMORPG. It might as well be a SPRPG like KOTOR 1 & 2.
And if you are a Bounty Hunter in a Star Wars universe, you could still get your goods by:
A. Blasting someone's face off and get whatever gear is still intact.
B. Go buy your gear.
C. Steal it.
But again, this is an MMORPG. What the hell point is there to an MMORPG if you really don't need anyone at all? It's a d*mn SPRPG that concidentally requires an online connection to play!
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Comments
I like that I can set my companions to do the crafting. This way I don't have to stand and look at bars filling up. I can enjoy playing the game and still advance my craft at the same time.
SWG factories were for mass producing your items and/or putting them into crates so people could carry a bunch of them in one slot of their inventory. Also, if you were making a complex item, there was a lot of work that led up to putting your schematic and resources into the factory. The toughtest items in the game took days to make there. I remember making rocket launchers for Bounty Hunters, and it took me a couple days because I had to manufacture multuple sub components, each having their own resources, combine some of those into larger components, then do a final long run to put them all together into a rocket launcher. Oh, and let's not forget that I had to get some of the sub-components from crafers in other crafting professions (I know, scary right?). Completely different system, and SWTOR doesn't even scratch the surface.
I also played Fallen Earth. While you didn't need a crafting machine, crafting in that game is much, much more complex and diverse than SWTOR. Again, bad example. I don't know EVE's crafting, but I assume by the depth and complexity of the game in general that it was also much more challenging than the mind-numbing system SWTOR has.
I understand those games are sandboxes and a hybrid (FE). I don't expect modern systems in themepark games to be that engaging, because people have the attention span of pocket lint, but what we have now is seriously lacking in any sense of accomplishment whatsoever. They might as well just sell you the item you want to craft for the relative cost of the materials while playing a three second manufacturing sound. It would be about the same experience.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
I agree with the OP. Even though my companions are doing the crafting, "I" am the one who is really crafting. I'm the one pushing the buttons. It's just a different spin on an old system.
I do like this system better though. Compare this to Lotro or WoW or similar crafting systems where you still have to push the button, but then go afk for 15 minutes while you wait for the cast bar to fill 50+ times. In this game, you can keep doing whatever while that cast bar fills, which for me is a welcome addition.
I enjoy how the crafting works. Here is what I did: When I picked up my 3 trades, I headed to the other starter world to hunt datacrons. While I explored and filled out my codex, I constantly sent my companion off on errands to earn mats for crafting. Once I had enought to make something, I had him make those too, all while not interupting my exploration.
Breath. Of. Fresh. Air.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
I have 3 crafters. One has 1 companion, 1 has 2 and 1 has 3. Having a ball with them all.
i craft and got near 350/400 in 3 profession.fun part is when you get 3+ companion you can send all of them to craft while you do pvp,space,flashpoints etc.
Not time consuming like other mmo where you stand in front of a forge making x number of items to gain skill.
I did real crafting in most MMO's that I played and very dedicated, but I like this better.
I love the crafting in this game! I can either gather materials myself or I can send my companions out to gather so that I can keep questing. It is really a fantastic system. I have been spending all my credits on it and when I am not feeling like doing anything active, I just start sending my companions places.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
Again, it's not crafting if you send your companions on imaginary missions (just a timer where they disappear and then reappear minutes later with loot). Crafting is when you get invoved in the process, find the resources, learn the recipes, and build the items. If you are playing a game with deep crafting, it will be even more involved than that.
This brings up another point. Perhaps these games should have simple crafting for the masses, but deeper crafting with more customization options for those who want to work at it.
I think it sucks that all of us can sit here and come up with a million new features for these games just by discussing them, yet we keep getting the same or even more dumbed-down features from these developers every time they release a new game.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
You misunderstand. Perhaps I should have worded that more clearly. My meaning was the recent change (over the last several years) in development direction whereby the crafting mechanic employs the use of companions or NPCs.
You nailed it. Exactly. Also though, I would add the process whereby the companion dissapears and magically returns with the crafted item is no different than a progress bar in a non-companion based system, which could either require you to stand their or not stand their. The argument that robust and deep crafting systems tie players down to a crafting table, is a strawman argument. Yes, some mechanics have done that in the past, and some still do, but no one is saying that system is the best, nor the only one that should ever be used.
I love to craft, Horizons was my first MMO, and had one of the best crafting of any MMO. mainly because it mattered.
I always try to craft my own stuff in MMO's, but most are put in the game as an after thought. U get better gear and
weapons from quest, or drops from mobs. Makes crafting dull, boring and worthless really fast. You find
yourself doing something that doesnt make a difference or matter.
Crafting should only be put in an MMO if it is going to be meaningfull and left out if they are only trying to get players
who like to craft to play the game by putting it in even though its useless.
I agree, Mischiff. Crafting should share a equal portion of importance in the game, otherwise the developers shouldn't bother.
So... not only do they have NPCs filling out your "party," they have NPCs craft items for you?
This is an MMORPG, right?
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
What's that got to do with being an MMORPG? Big world, supports thousands of players at once: Massively MultiPlayer
I'm a bounty hunter in the Star Wars universe: RPG
Tada.
Yes, which one of the letters of that acronym stands for "craft everything your self"?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Let's follow that to its logical conclusion:
Games without crafting--the bitching becomes about a missing feature, "this game is fail".
Games where crafting is of equal importance--the bitching becomes about repetitive stress injuries and reward without risk.
Games where crafting is of lesser importance--the bitching becomes about "not worth the time to bother".
Did I miss any alternatives? More importantly; is there, can there possibly be, any outcome that makes everyone happy?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I don't think there is, and this just shoots more holes through the theory that sandbox and themepark can live in harmony in the same game.
swtor crafting is boring. it's not even a well thou8ght out time sink.
swg was fun. .. cant' remember the times early on when I had crafters askingme to clear mobs around their harvesters. The biggest arms crafter became my best friend cu8z of that and I had nice weapons cu8z of it. when i tried crafting it was f8un trying to get the best resources to get the best res8ults. I made friends that way too trading what i did best for what i needed.
I miss those days
VG crafting made me cry. you8 had to click and the interface was junk. it looked interesting though.
I think asherons call had a better crafting system than tor. their tinkering deal wou8ld let you8 create a pretty unique look.
It has *everything* to do with an MMORPG. "Massive Multiplayer Online" in particular.
So, BioWare implements a crafting system? Where supposedly players could craft items? What's the point of a crafting system where the players are essentially self-sufficient without requiring support of others? It's bad enough the game has NPCs that you group with, and now you can send them to gather your resources and build items for you?
So again, BioWare goes with an NPC system that fills your party, and on top of it, CRAFTS items for you. It's a glowing example of one of the things going wrong with the MMORPG genre: An increased trend to shut out player interdependency, killing more and more the "Multiplayer" part of MMORPG. It might as well be a SPRPG like KOTOR 1 & 2.
And if you are a Bounty Hunter in a Star Wars universe, you could still get your goods by:
A. Blasting someone's face off and get whatever gear is still intact.
B. Go buy your gear.
C. Steal it.
But again, this is an MMORPG. What the hell point is there to an MMORPG if you really don't need anyone at all? It's a d*mn SPRPG that concidentally requires an online connection to play!
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)