I agree with op 100%. I play mmos to build a character. Apparently Gw2 aspires to be like every other console game we have playrd for the last 25 years. I suspect that the building a character portion of the game will be even shorter than Swtor, with that being a couple months at best.
So skill based PVP, tournaments, structured pvp, meaningful world pvp, player rankings, 250vs250 maps are signs or a 'console game' these days? lmao
I'm pretty sure you will find WOW and SWTOR are games designed for the mass market (read: console crowd) i.e. easy mode, gear orientated, linear, reward focused, with zero risk simplistic grind heavy pvp.
I guess I'm going on old console experience. Those games just didnt hold attention for more than a month max. Basing an mmo off those games doesnt sound ideal. I suppose with this being b2p there is no concern about keeping people interested.
OP: You've played SWTOR and yet you are still asking why having no PVP gear is good?
I thought that game made it pretty blatantly clear why PVP gear ruins PVP. Hint: Try PVP'ing in the level 50 bracket without expertise lately?
Stupid dev's turning PVP into mindless gear grinds... like the PVE grind wasn't enough for them?
Bring on GW2!
No to your first question, because I have 690 expertise (about 3 pieces away fom max). I find that you can go get the gear the same way I did, how is that not balanced? Oh right, because rng also hurts you somehow, or whatever other whiny things you guys have to say. Yet you accuse me of whining.. odd.
because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)
When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.
Well if fps game are only for casual as you seam to think, why all the pro team play fps games and rts then? I never saw a pro pvp team in any mmo, quiet strange isn't it. Seam like playing more in fact don't mean much in mmo.
I'm sure a pro fps will kick your ass like in a droopy cartoon if you play in his game as a casual. And clearly because he played a lot more than you. So your argument isn't very valid.
And honestly as it was already said GW2 will have both competitive and more mmo type open world pvp, so its not as if there is only one type. You'll keep all your gear in the Mist pvp, so you really have both types, which is great.
OP: You've played SWTOR and yet you are still asking why having no PVP gear is good?
I thought that game made it pretty blatantly clear why PVP gear ruins PVP. Hint: Try PVP'ing in the level 50 bracket without expertise lately?
Stupid dev's turning PVP into mindless gear grinds... like the PVE grind wasn't enough for them?
Bring on GW2!
No to your first question, because I have 690 expertise (about 3 pieces away fom max). I find that you can go get the gear the same way I did, how is that not balanced? Oh right, because rng also hurts you somehow, or whatever other whiny things you guys have to say. Yet you accuse me of whining.. odd.
because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)
When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.
Well if fps game are only for casual as you seam to think, why all the pro team play fps games and rts then? I never saw a pro pvp team in any mmo, quiet strange isn't it. Seam like playing more in fact don't mean much in mmo.
I'm sure a pro fps will kick your ass like in a droopy cartoon if you play in his game as a casual. And clearly because he played a lot more than you. So your argument isn't very valid.
And honestly as it was already said GW2 will have both competitive and more mmo type open world pvp, so its not as if there is only one type. You'll keep all your gear in the Mist pvp, so you really have both types, which is great.
Lol I wonder why people thought it was either or in the game when it has both ha ha.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I guess I'm going on old console experience. Those games just didnt hold attention for more than a month max. Basing an mmo off those games doesnt sound ideal. I suppose with this being b2p there is no concern about keeping people interested.
So uhhh....just outta curiosity, Which console game would GW2 be basing itself off of?,Cause i see alot of GW1...i see a bit of DAOC,Bit of Warhammer...and thats about all i can come up with, so please enlighten me as to what Console game GW2 is basing itself off of?
OP: You've played SWTOR and yet you are still asking why having no PVP gear is good?
I thought that game made it pretty blatantly clear why PVP gear ruins PVP. Hint: Try PVP'ing in the level 50 bracket without expertise lately?
Stupid dev's turning PVP into mindless gear grinds... like the PVE grind wasn't enough for them?
Bring on GW2!
No to your first question, because I have 690 expertise (about 3 pieces away fom max). I find that you can go get the gear the same way I did, how is that not balanced? Oh right, because rng also hurts you somehow, or whatever other whiny things you guys have to say. Yet you accuse me of whining.. odd.
because you are a casual who wants to spend 20 minutes a day playing and expect to be as good as me in a mmo is a joke. This isnt the fps genre. With gw2 its taking a step in that direction (casuals rejoice!)
When I am older I will probably change my stance, but as a college student I like competitive gear races. Sorry you dont.
Not if that "Casual" is actually better than you....Sounds as if you only enjoy WOW pvp because of the fact you can get an edge over others by devoting more time.....time others may not have.
Why are you playing WOW bro go play Darkfall....Its casual free and youll get an insane edge on people by investing more time,just leave GW2 alone...its not gonna be WOW.
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"
I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)
Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.
Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?
(note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)
I see no reason why one would need multiple sets of gear, or specific pvp gear in a MMO. If a dev designed the game without the need for it - if they don't make it so you have a secondary set of stats for PvP then it's easily possible that you wouldn't need it. Maybe participating in PvP could gain you skill points to spend on PvP stats instead of handing out gear. Perhaps they'll make the game fun enough that you don't really care about the carrot but see it more as a side effect to having fun? I'm not saying carrot chasing is the wrong way to play a game, because fun is what you like.
I don't know much about GW2, but I'm always happy to see games try new things if they're well thought out.
You say u get plenty of rewards for being excellent in pvp.
The rewards u describe though seem crap to me.
World benefits u describe are completely unintresting.
Individual rewards u describe are of none importance also since u say they have only cosmetic purpose.
So when u quote the OP's question your answer should be : No there are no rewards cause i dont think any serious player considers rewards the ones u describe.
Yeah, PvP ranking is for wussies???
Sorry but giving people actaul advantages while you fight sounds care bearish to me, the best player should always win a PvP game and if you hand out gear that makes you better you destroy that and turn the gae into another grind.
Loke i ve read in past many of of your posts about gameplay in games and i always respectd your opinion.
You know exactly what i mean with the things i wrote above. Serious players dont care about special mounts and stupid achievents from killing 10 spiders ina row or gathering 1k gold. Either for fancy dresses. They care mostly about their character improvement. If the progress 's end is fast to get its the end. Pvp will be fun for 1 maybe 2 months. Can u imagine Skyrim or mount and blade playing it and no improvement on the character? D&D games without progressing stats or feats or even skills? Same goes here. Its mmo yes but its RPG .Reaching lvl cap and progress afterwards? Its adead game.
i think the biggest problem we have is gross over-generalisation. "serious players" i believe like a challenge. when the game stops being a challenge, they walk away. it's why your average mmo has to keep churning out content or die. it's why i believe wow keeps doing massive changes to its skillset to the point of deleting skills and even, as we've seen a few time sin recent years, completely redesigning their trees. they do this not to progress your character, but to give you a change. to give you a challenge. anyone who thinks it's about balance isn't paying attention. in games like that there is no balance. there never can be. this makes the whole competitive sport side of it a complete joke, because certain classes with certain gear will ALWAYS have too much of an advantage to the point you can zone in, look at your opponent and pretty much walk off and pour a drink because you know that unless that guy is a complete and total noob who's not even mouse-turning, then you've lost.
gw2 is attempting to fix that. to turn the whole pvp experience into a real esport. hence the lack of gear with stats which will give unfair advantages. they've gone the motorsport way, i guess, where they pretty much restrict what you can and can't use so there's a reasonably level playing field.
this is awesome. it's not about restricting character progression as they've already proven you can advance your character laterally. they're just trying to ensure everyone has a reasonable chance of feeling like they're contributing and no one's being excluded or made to feel like a noob simply because they haven't geared "correctly". i for one would dearly love all stats to be removed from gear. bring the stats back to the character.
anyway.
for the record, i just wanted to say: i'm a serious gamer and i love this idea of doing away with noob-rolling gear. it might help me bite my nails again.
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays?
I understand the giving fair chances for everyone in pvp rated games but that will exclude further improvement for your toon which lead us where? To reroll another character? What for? Thats the thing im afraid that will keep Gw2 in low sales. And it will be a pity cause it has an intresting concept in combat system mechanics, they made it non instanced unlike gw 1 was which is good ofc but this thingie here i tell ya, its gonna reduce its stamina over time alot.
You say u get plenty of rewards for being excellent in pvp.
The rewards u describe though seem crap to me.
World benefits u describe are completely unintresting.
Individual rewards u describe are of none importance also since u say they have only cosmetic purpose.
So when u quote the OP's question your answer should be : No there are no rewards cause i dont think any serious player considers rewards the ones u describe.
Yeah, PvP ranking is for wussies???
Sorry but giving people actaul advantages while you fight sounds care bearish to me, the best player should always win a PvP game and if you hand out gear that makes you better you destroy that and turn the gae into another grind.
Loke i ve read in past many of of your posts about gameplay in games and i always respectd your opinion.
You know exactly what i mean with the things i wrote above. Serious players dont care about special mounts and stupid achievents from killing 10 spiders ina row or gathering 1k gold. Either for fancy dresses. They care mostly about their character improvement. If the progress 's end is fast to get its the end. Pvp will be fun for 1 maybe 2 months. Can u imagine Skyrim or mount and blade playing it and no improvement on the character? D&D games without progressing stats or feats or even skills? Same goes here. Its mmo yes but its RPG .Reaching lvl cap and progress afterwards? Its adead game.
i think the biggest problem we have is gross over-generalisation. "serious players" i believe like a challenge. when the game stops being a challenge, they walk away. it's why your average mmo has to keep churning out content or die. it's why i believe wow keeps doing massive changes to its skillset to the point of deleting skills and even, as we've seen a few time sin recent years, completely redesigning their trees. they do this not to progress your character, but to give you a change. to give you a challenge. anyone who thinks it's about balance isn't paying attention. in games like that there is no balance. there never can be. this makes the whole competitive sport side of it a complete joke, because certain classes with certain gear will ALWAYS have too much of an advantage to the point you can zone in, look at your opponent and pretty much walk off and pour a drink because you know that unless that guy is a complete and total noob who's not even mouse-turning, then you've lost.
gw2 is attempting to fix that. to turn the whole pvp experience into a real esport. hence the lack of gear with stats which will give unfair advantages. they've gone the motorsport way, i guess, where they pretty much restrict what you can and can't use so there's a reasonably level playing field.
this is awesome. it's not about restricting character progression as they've already proven you can advance your character laterally. they're just trying to ensure everyone has a reasonable chance of feeling like they're contributing and no one's being excluded or made to feel like a noob simply because they haven't geared "correctly". i for one would dearly love all stats to be removed from gear. bring the stats back to the character.
anyway.
for the record, i just wanted to say: i'm a serious gamer and i love this idea of doing away with noob-rolling gear. it might help me bite my nails again.
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays?
No. Nobody would play WoW like that and Blizzard knows it. WoW pretty much sucks gameplay wise. Churning out better and better gear is the way Blizzard are keeping people playing.
If WoW's gameplay was actually fun rather than repetetive and static then they wouldn't need it. But it is and they do.
Originally posted by tazarconan Originally posted by headphones
Originally posted by tazarconan
Originally posted by Loke666
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays? I understand the giving fair chances for everyone in pvp rated games but that will exclude further improvement for your toon which lead us where? To reroll another character? What for? Thats the thing im afraid that will keep Gw2 in low sales. And it will be a pity cause it has an intresting concept in combat system mechanics, they made it non instanced unlike gw 1 was which is good ofc but this thingie here i tell ya, its gonna reduce its stamina over time alot.
WoW =/= GW2
Different games, different methodologies.
GW2 isn't trying to create a gear grind. I supposed some people will miss this, but others won't. PvP for the sake of PvP...sounds pretty good to me. So does not having a bunch of AFK people standing around doing nothing or just running into the middle of the battleground so they can "get it over quickly".
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays?
I understand the giving fair chances for everyone in pvp rated games but that will exclude further improvement for your toon which lead us where? To reroll another character? What for? Thats the thing im afraid that will keep Gw2 in low sales. And it will be a pity cause it has an intresting concept in combat system mechanics, they made it non instanced unlike gw 1 was which is good ofc but this thingie here i tell ya, its gonna reduce its stamina over time alot.
WoW =/= GW2
Different games, different methodologies.
GW2 isn't trying to create a gear grind. I supposed some people will miss this, but others won't. PvP for the sake of PvP...sounds pretty good to me. So does not having a bunch of AFK people standing around doing nothing or just running into the middle of the battleground so they can "get it over quickly".
I agree 100 % with that. Its the wow stupid farming/gringind proccedures that make gear aquicition a grind instead of pleasure. But with GW2 setup getting gear would be a pleasure and not a grind. Thats what im trying to say. More intresting combat system,tougher battles in pve that requires some thinking,dynamic events all these are diferrent from wow and i belive it could make obtaining gear fun as it is in all single player rpg's and not a grind like in wow.
at least we get better visuals the better you or your guild get at pvp..at least something gets better if you pvp more,but still stats will be the same..not sure if itll be that awesome..but well see
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"
I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)
Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.
Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?
(note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)
From the looks of it, PvP isn't the main focus of GW2. If your main focus is PvP, then I suspect you will be quite disappointed.
Huh?
I don't understand how anyone can arrive to that conclusion. Arena Net is not only promoting their structured PvP as competetive, trying to establish a legitement e-sport within the genre, but they have prided their PvP system's reliance on skill since the first game, which was marketed as a PvP title. There's also World vs World vs World, 3 faction, massive PvP with potentially thousands of players that will be match-made and leaderboard tracking for servers.
A lot of people assume that PvE or PvP won't be good because the other is not done well. I guess this reinforces the sentiment of a "PvP" or "PvE game", but it's dumb to begin with. Having quality PvP and quality PvE are NOT mutually exclusive.
This^
Being a person who has followed GW2 very closely for the last 2 years my opinion is that ...........
Arenanet is making a game closer to League of Legends than WOW in regards to pvp.
Stat tracking and Leaderboards
Simplified easy to understand UI with less abilities (we all know 26+ abilities is getting out of control)
A small grind via leveling but the actuall pvp between 2 max rank toons will be about skill and knowledge of the meta.
Cosmetic Gear only obtainable via PVP. (I'd bet there will be different set's arena vs open world) Look at how much League of Legends players pay for skins..........I know I'll pvp grind some cool looking set of armor.
Player hosted Scenaraio's and Battlegrounds. (now you can play scenarios with just you friends or team, practice matches)
Server rankings for WvsWvsW.
Ease of joining guilds will allow you to have a pvp guild and a pve guild or just multiple pvp guilds if you that core. (who doesn't vent hop anyways?)
Basically to sum it up they're making the pvp easy to do and meaninful through stat tracking just like LOL does. LOL now being the biggest most popular game in the world.
Originally posted by tazarconan Originally posted by headphones
Originally posted by tazarconan
Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by tazarconan
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays? I understand the giving fair chances for everyone in pvp rated games but that will exclude further improvement for your toon which lead us where? To reroll another character? What for? Thats the thing im afraid that will keep Gw2 in low sales. And it will be a pity cause it has an intresting concept in combat system mechanics, they made it non instanced unlike gw 1 was which is good ofc but this thingie here i tell ya, its gonna reduce its stamina over time alot.
When I still played WoW (I quit pretty much right after Cataclysm), I actually did stuff because I thought it was fun. Wintergrasp for example. In the beginning it was pretty fun. It was pretty chaotic, with big tough war machines. But after a while players became so overgeared that the only way to actually get the machines close enough to the wall to destroy them was by making 16 Siege Engines and then sending them all to a wall at the same time. Otherwise the defenders would just destroy any machine as soon as it came in sight, because a single dps could take down those machines in 1-3 seconds (depends which machine).
I tried arena a few times too, but it was rather boring as I'd just get owned by people with twice my stats, and grinding for gear just so I can actually start enjoying it, nty. I play a game to relax and have fun, not to work some more.
PvE was more fun at that point because you could just do lower difficulty content (better than just losing over and over to better-geared players). Unfortunately, you'd have to do the same dungeon 100 times over just to get enough tokens to buy some gear which you'd need for the next difficulty dungeon, which you'd also have to do 100 times over, etc.
Raids could be sort of fun too, if you were at the point where it's barely doable. If you were too outgeared it became trivial, but if your gear wasn't good enough your tanks would just get nuked from full to death in ~1 second and everyone dies. Although ofc at some points raids lost all fun too, because tanks would die in about ~2 seconds anyways, and you'd just have to hope that the healer can heal you from the brink of death back to full health before the boss does another auto-attack.
So in the end, gear actually is the cause of things being not fun, which makes the game require a carrot-on-a-stick, which is more gear. It's a circle.
You say u get plenty of rewards for being excellent in pvp.
The rewards u describe though seem crap to me.
World benefits u describe are completely unintresting.
Individual rewards u describe are of none importance also since u say they have only cosmetic purpose.
So when u quote the OP's question your answer should be : No there are no rewards cause i dont think any serious player considers rewards the ones u describe.
Yeah, PvP ranking is for wussies???
Sorry but giving people actaul advantages while you fight sounds care bearish to me, the best player should always win a PvP game and if you hand out gear that makes you better you destroy that and turn the gae into another grind.
Loke i ve read in past many of of your posts about gameplay in games and i always respectd your opinion.
You know exactly what i mean with the things i wrote above. Serious players dont care about special mounts and stupid achievents from killing 10 spiders ina row or gathering 1k gold. Either for fancy dresses. They care mostly about their character improvement. If the progress 's end is fast to get its the end. Pvp will be fun for 1 maybe 2 months. Can u imagine Skyrim or mount and blade playing it and no improvement on the character? D&D games without progressing stats or feats or even skills? Same goes here. Its mmo yes but its RPG .Reaching lvl cap and progress afterwards? Its adead game.
i think the biggest problem we have is gross over-generalisation. "serious players" i believe like a challenge. when the game stops being a challenge, they walk away. it's why your average mmo has to keep churning out content or die. it's why i believe wow keeps doing massive changes to its skillset to the point of deleting skills and even, as we've seen a few time sin recent years, completely redesigning their trees. they do this not to progress your character, but to give you a change. to give you a challenge. anyone who thinks it's about balance isn't paying attention. in games like that there is no balance. there never can be. this makes the whole competitive sport side of it a complete joke, because certain classes with certain gear will ALWAYS have too much of an advantage to the point you can zone in, look at your opponent and pretty much walk off and pour a drink because you know that unless that guy is a complete and total noob who's not even mouse-turning, then you've lost.
gw2 is attempting to fix that. to turn the whole pvp experience into a real esport. hence the lack of gear with stats which will give unfair advantages. they've gone the motorsport way, i guess, where they pretty much restrict what you can and can't use so there's a reasonably level playing field.
this is awesome. it's not about restricting character progression as they've already proven you can advance your character laterally. they're just trying to ensure everyone has a reasonable chance of feeling like they're contributing and no one's being excluded or made to feel like a noob simply because they haven't geared "correctly". i for one would dearly love all stats to be removed from gear. bring the stats back to the character.
anyway.
for the record, i just wanted to say: i'm a serious gamer and i love this idea of doing away with noob-rolling gear. it might help me bite my nails again.
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays?
No. Nobody would play WoW like that and Blizzard knows it. WoW pretty much sucks gameplay wise. Churning out better and better gear is the way Blizzard are keeping people playing.
If WoW's gameplay was actually fun rather than repetetive and static then they wouldn't need it. But it is and they do.
So what happens when you figure out exactly how to play your character and you end up using the same 8 abilities.. over.. and over.. and over.. and the arena never changes, and world v world v world is just one big zerg fest and takes 0 skill?
They better have some serious rankings that really allow people something to strive for, because otherwise it sounds like it isnt a mmo. just a LoL with slightly different character controls and camera.
How many different types of warzones will they have at launch? I've only seen one which is capture and hold points.
So what happens when you figure out exactly how to play your character and you end up using the same 8 abilities.. over.. and over.. and over.. and the arena never changes, and world v world v world is just one big zerg fest and takes 0 skill?
They better have some serious rankings that really allow people something to strive for, because otherwise it sounds like it isnt a mmo. just a LoL with slightly different character controls and camera.
How many different types of warzones will they have at launch? I've only seen one which is capture and hold points.
Well every weapon has specific 5 abilities attached to it, and I guarentee you'll be swtiching weapons on the fly in pvp to counteract the specific oppoents and makeup the opposite team is playing. This is why LoL is so popular, there are so many different characters and abilities that coming up with a counter strategy to ur opponents make up is truly the fun and everlasting part that makes you kee coming back for more. Remember GW2 combat is revolving around group attacks and intertwining skills unleashing a large number of different strageties and tactics.
GW2 is much more tactical than your general MMO pvp gear grinders because it specifically balances the battlefield without gear types. Yes there will be flavor of the month team builds and common strategies just like LoL, but Anet will constantly be tweaking abilities and such so the tactics will be constantly changing.
As for battlefields, I don't know but I'm pretty sure its more than just one lol. They will set up like dedicated servers in the game, so I'm guessing at least 3-5 at lauch.
Then if you not into the whole hardcore tactical strategy type of PvP, there is the WvWvW which will be more casual and revolve around army tactics like manuvering and logistics (which points to capture and defend).
Basically, because there is no gear, Anet can in fact make PvP deeper and more varied because of the strategy, team makeups, and ability cohesion.
I'm completely maxed out in BF3 on all characters. I still log in everyday because the GAMEPLAY is fun and I enjoy it.
I have another set of PvP gear to attain in WoW. I still log in everyday NOT because the gameplay is fun, but because I am PAYING $15 a month.
This is why GW2 doesn't need PvP gear. The devs say they are creating enjoyable and challenging GAMEPLAY, and you dont have to PAY $15 a month.
The end.
Very well put. I completely agree. Fun is it's own reward and with no subscription fee, the only carrot the game needs is that it provides fun, along with some cool looking gear to show off, just to keep things fresh.
There's nothing wrong with the OP wanting to get better gear as he progresses in PvP. But as many other's stated before, then GW2 PvP simply isn't for him. He should pick another game to statisfy his gear grind PvP needs. (I myself think GW2's PvP will be tons of fun).
There is something I want to clarify the OP stated in one of his postings tho:
when a MMO is giving me a different character to play in 5v5 objective game play, it is no longer a competitve mmo. it is now literally a moba.
Not exactly no. You can play PvP matches with your PvE character. But when you do so if you haven't progressed to max level on that character and therefore don't have max level gear yet, the PvP system will compensate that so you have the same stats and skills that a max leveled character has. (Don't know if this is also the case with WvWvW) So it still remains a matter of player skill that determines the outcome of a match and not the gear or level or number of skills, even if you haven't maxed your character yet and just want to try some PvP with it. If you want to create a different PvP only character, that is also possible (same as in GW1) but you don't need to.
My opinion is that how GW2 handles PvP is preferable to games having PvP gear tiers, because with the latter, the longer a game is out and the more PvP gear tiers are added, the more difficult it becomes for new players (who picked the game up later) to get into PvP. What fun is PvP if you have to let yourself get ganked 100s of matches long before you're able to get the gear to be able to win PvP matches based on your skill and not on your gear, because only then the gear difference doesn't play a role anymore.
In WoW, PvP is Gear = Win, In GW2 it will be Skill = Win. In vanilla, PvP was fun in WoW. Then they added resilence in TBC and now all you need to do is stack that and you win. I stopped pvping on my shadow priest shortly after TBC. Since my mind blast crit was just as bad as a ret pallys dps in vanilla.
Confession: I like swtor's carrot on the stick (if that disqualifies me from liking this game too then so be it)
But without pvp gear, what keeps me pvping in guild wars 2? I am trying to find information but all I see is people saying "Its fun, thats why you should play it!"
I play mmo's to progress a character, I play sc2 or fps' for competitive fun. (cause its a rpg)
Will this game provide the same types of ladders and stat tracking that a fps or a sc2 provides to keep me playing? This is something dearly lacking from swtor and if this game *plans* on having it at release I will be very interested.
Will I be able to get anything but "fun" out of pvp?
(note: I am not asking for pvp gear to own casuals, but I need something to aim for when pvp'ing!)
From the looks of it, PvP isn't the main focus of GW2. If your main focus is PvP, then I suspect you will be quite disappointed.
Huh?
I don't understand how anyone can arrive to that conclusion. Arena Net is not only promoting their structured PvP as competetive, trying to establish a legitement e-sport within the genre, but they have prided their PvP system's reliance on skill since the first game, which was marketed as a PvP title. There's also World vs World vs World, 3 faction, massive PvP with potentially thousands of players that will be match-made and leaderboard tracking for servers.
A lot of people assume that PvE or PvP won't be good because the other is not done well. I guess this reinforces the sentiment of a "PvP" or "PvE game", but it's dumb to begin with. Having quality PvP and quality PvE are NOT mutually exclusive.
This^
Being a person who has followed GW2 very closely for the last 2 years my opinion is that ...........
Arenanet is making a game closer to League of Legends than WOW in regards to pvp.
Stat tracking and Leaderboards
Simplified easy to understand UI with less abilities (we all know 26+ abilities is getting out of control)
A small grind via leveling but the actuall pvp between 2 max rank toons will be about skill and knowledge of the meta.
Cosmetic Gear only obtainable via PVP. (I'd bet there will be different set's arena vs open world) Look at how much League of Legends players pay for skins..........I know I'll pvp grind some cool looking set of armor.
Player hosted Scenaraio's and Battlegrounds. (now you can play scenarios with just you friends or team, practice matches)
Server rankings for WvsWvsW.
Ease of joining guilds will allow you to have a pvp guild and a pve guild or just multiple pvp guilds if you that core. (who doesn't vent hop anyways?)
Basically to sum it up they're making the pvp easy to do and meaninful through stat tracking just like LOL does. LOL now being the biggest most popular game in the world.
GW2 endgame will be pvp primarily imo.
They (Anet) never said anywhere that you can ONLY get cosmetic gear with PvP. It's just one of many ways. You can also get new skins for your gear by running dungeons in hardmode, crafting and killing world bosses. And there might be other ways I don't know about (In GW1 participating in certain events and doing certain mini-games also gave you new skins).
EDIT: I misread your text, you probably mean PvP only gear and not that the only way to get gear is PvP. I do not object to that by the way, gives the dedicated pvp player some way to show his skill visually to other players.
GW2 has lesser skills than GW1 that's true, but it's skillsystem is much deeper than GW1:
- Different weapons give different skills and can be swapped during combat, therefore you have much more skills at your disposal than the 8 in GW1.
- You get four skills to fight for your life when you are downed.
- Picking up items give you other skills you can use in combat.
- Thief can steal stuff which gives other skills, engineer can equip certain kits which gives other skills, elementalists have four different elemantal attunements which change the skillbar completely and there are other mechanics which give you much more skills than the 10 skills on your skillbar you seem to have on a first glance.
- Every profession has, and some races have (norn, asura) a certain formskill which changes appearance and skillbar.
- There are certain skills which change in a different skill when actived, so they are actually two in one or even three in one (if you cast bone minions for example, they will explode if you press the skill button again when the bone minions are out (in GW1 they were 2 seperate skills)).
- And finally skills of different professions interact, creating devastating combo's when combined. (Another example: If you fire an arrow as a ranger through a wall of fire that has been cast by an elementalist you get fire arrows which do more damage and give burning condition to a foe).
How is this a dumbed down skill system as you suggested?
Furthermore: GW2 endgame doesn't only consist of doing PvP like you state here. PvP is just one of many things you can do when you maxed your character. There will be hard mode dungeons, doing dynamic events you skipped before (which are scaled up in difficulty when higher level characters attain them so they remain a challenge), at least 15 mini-games, titles and achievements to go after, crafting and other stuff I forgot.
For a person who claims to have followed GW2 closely for two years your post is quite ill-informed...
I guess I'm going on old console experience. Those games just didnt hold attention for more than a month max. Basing an mmo off those games doesnt sound ideal. I suppose with this being b2p there is no concern about keeping people interested.
Any of the new MMOs nowadays dont keep me intrested for long basicly when WoW made the mmo market into single player based games with chat room and called it an mmo was when i started to loose intrest in games. just waiting for a game to change that and GW2 looks like it may do that, i say may because current big games have be somewhat of a let down for quite some time
Comments
So skill based PVP, tournaments, structured pvp, meaningful world pvp, player rankings, 250vs250 maps are signs or a 'console game' these days? lmao
I'm pretty sure you will find WOW and SWTOR are games designed for the mass market (read: console crowd) i.e. easy mode, gear orientated, linear, reward focused, with zero risk simplistic grind heavy pvp.
Well if fps game are only for casual as you seam to think, why all the pro team play fps games and rts then? I never saw a pro pvp team in any mmo, quiet strange isn't it. Seam like playing more in fact don't mean much in mmo.
I'm sure a pro fps will kick your ass like in a droopy cartoon if you play in his game as a casual. And clearly because he played a lot more than you. So your argument isn't very valid.
And honestly as it was already said GW2 will have both competitive and more mmo type open world pvp, so its not as if there is only one type. You'll keep all your gear in the Mist pvp, so you really have both types, which is great.
Lol I wonder why people thought it was either or in the game when it has both ha ha.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
So uhhh....just outta curiosity, Which console game would GW2 be basing itself off of?,Cause i see alot of GW1...i see a bit of DAOC,Bit of Warhammer...and thats about all i can come up with, so please enlighten me as to what Console game GW2 is basing itself off of?
Not if that "Casual" is actually better than you....Sounds as if you only enjoy WOW pvp because of the fact you can get an edge over others by devoting more time.....time others may not have.
Why are you playing WOW bro go play Darkfall....Its casual free and youll get an insane edge on people by investing more time,just leave GW2 alone...its not gonna be WOW.
I see no reason why one would need multiple sets of gear, or specific pvp gear in a MMO. If a dev designed the game without the need for it - if they don't make it so you have a secondary set of stats for PvP then it's easily possible that you wouldn't need it. Maybe participating in PvP could gain you skill points to spend on PvP stats instead of handing out gear. Perhaps they'll make the game fun enough that you don't really care about the carrot but see it more as a side effect to having fun? I'm not saying carrot chasing is the wrong way to play a game, because fun is what you like.
I don't know much about GW2, but I'm always happy to see games try new things if they're well thought out.
No PvP gear isn't just good... it's grreeat!
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays?
I understand the giving fair chances for everyone in pvp rated games but that will exclude further improvement for your toon which lead us where? To reroll another character? What for? Thats the thing im afraid that will keep Gw2 in low sales. And it will be a pity cause it has an intresting concept in combat system mechanics, they made it non instanced unlike gw 1 was which is good ofc but this thingie here i tell ya, its gonna reduce its stamina over time alot.
No. Nobody would play WoW like that and Blizzard knows it. WoW pretty much sucks gameplay wise. Churning out better and better gear is the way Blizzard are keeping people playing.
If WoW's gameplay was actually fun rather than repetetive and static then they wouldn't need it. But it is and they do.
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays?
I understand the giving fair chances for everyone in pvp rated games but that will exclude further improvement for your toon which lead us where? To reroll another character? What for? Thats the thing im afraid that will keep Gw2 in low sales. And it will be a pity cause it has an intresting concept in combat system mechanics, they made it non instanced unlike gw 1 was which is good ofc but this thingie here i tell ya, its gonna reduce its stamina over time alot.
WoW =/= GW2
Different games, different methodologies.
GW2 isn't trying to create a gear grind. I supposed some people will miss this, but others won't. PvP for the sake of PvP...sounds pretty good to me. So does not having a bunch of AFK people standing around doing nothing or just running into the middle of the battleground so they can "get it over quickly".
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I agree 100 % with that. Its the wow stupid farming/gringind proccedures that make gear aquicition a grind instead of pleasure. But with GW2 setup getting gear would be a pleasure and not a grind. Thats what im trying to say. More intresting combat system,tougher battles in pve that requires some thinking,dynamic events all these are diferrent from wow and i belive it could make obtaining gear fun as it is in all single player rpg's and not a grind like in wow.
at least we get better visuals the better you or your guild get at pvp..at least something gets better if you pvp more,but still stats will be the same..not sure if itll be that awesome..but well see
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
I'm completely maxed out in BF3 on all characters. I still log in everyday because the GAMEPLAY is fun and I enjoy it.
I have another set of PvP gear to attain in WoW. I still log in everyday NOT because the gameplay is fun, but because I am PAYING $15 a month.
This is why GW2 doesn't need PvP gear. The devs say they are creating enjoyable and challenging GAMEPLAY, and you dont have to PAY $15 a month.
The end.
This^
Being a person who has followed GW2 very closely for the last 2 years my opinion is that ...........
Arenanet is making a game closer to League of Legends than WOW in regards to pvp.
Stat tracking and Leaderboards
Simplified easy to understand UI with less abilities (we all know 26+ abilities is getting out of control)
A small grind via leveling but the actuall pvp between 2 max rank toons will be about skill and knowledge of the meta.
Cosmetic Gear only obtainable via PVP. (I'd bet there will be different set's arena vs open world) Look at how much League of Legends players pay for skins..........I know I'll pvp grind some cool looking set of armor.
Player hosted Scenaraio's and Battlegrounds. (now you can play scenarios with just you friends or team, practice matches)
Server rankings for WvsWvsW.
Ease of joining guilds will allow you to have a pvp guild and a pve guild or just multiple pvp guilds if you that core. (who doesn't vent hop anyways?)
Basically to sum it up they're making the pvp easy to do and meaninful through stat tracking just like LOL does. LOL now being the biggest most popular game in the world.
GW2 endgame will be pvp primarily imo.
Imagine wow where after u take your last lvl 85 for example, there is no gear from pvp or pve to further improve ,make stronger your character.There are just some raids with some better cosmetic aesthetic appearance , and from arenas or rated bg's u would take just titles. U think anyone would play wow if it was like that? Anyone would bother to go raid in wow or burn himself in arenas nowdays?
I understand the giving fair chances for everyone in pvp rated games but that will exclude further improvement for your toon which lead us where? To reroll another character? What for? Thats the thing im afraid that will keep Gw2 in low sales. And it will be a pity cause it has an intresting concept in combat system mechanics, they made it non instanced unlike gw 1 was which is good ofc but this thingie here i tell ya, its gonna reduce its stamina over time alot.
When I still played WoW (I quit pretty much right after Cataclysm), I actually did stuff because I thought it was fun. Wintergrasp for example. In the beginning it was pretty fun. It was pretty chaotic, with big tough war machines. But after a while players became so overgeared that the only way to actually get the machines close enough to the wall to destroy them was by making 16 Siege Engines and then sending them all to a wall at the same time. Otherwise the defenders would just destroy any machine as soon as it came in sight, because a single dps could take down those machines in 1-3 seconds (depends which machine).
I tried arena a few times too, but it was rather boring as I'd just get owned by people with twice my stats, and grinding for gear just so I can actually start enjoying it, nty. I play a game to relax and have fun, not to work some more.
PvE was more fun at that point because you could just do lower difficulty content (better than just losing over and over to better-geared players). Unfortunately, you'd have to do the same dungeon 100 times over just to get enough tokens to buy some gear which you'd need for the next difficulty dungeon, which you'd also have to do 100 times over, etc.
Raids could be sort of fun too, if you were at the point where it's barely doable. If you were too outgeared it became trivial, but if your gear wasn't good enough your tanks would just get nuked from full to death in ~1 second and everyone dies. Although ofc at some points raids lost all fun too, because tanks would die in about ~2 seconds anyways, and you'd just have to hope that the healer can heal you from the brink of death back to full health before the boss does another auto-attack.
So in the end, gear actually is the cause of things being not fun, which makes the game require a carrot-on-a-stick, which is more gear. It's a circle.
"I'll lead, you follow."
So what happens when you figure out exactly how to play your character and you end up using the same 8 abilities.. over.. and over.. and over.. and the arena never changes, and world v world v world is just one big zerg fest and takes 0 skill?
They better have some serious rankings that really allow people something to strive for, because otherwise it sounds like it isnt a mmo. just a LoL with slightly different character controls and camera.
How many different types of warzones will they have at launch? I've only seen one which is capture and hold points.
Well every weapon has specific 5 abilities attached to it, and I guarentee you'll be swtiching weapons on the fly in pvp to counteract the specific oppoents and makeup the opposite team is playing. This is why LoL is so popular, there are so many different characters and abilities that coming up with a counter strategy to ur opponents make up is truly the fun and everlasting part that makes you kee coming back for more. Remember GW2 combat is revolving around group attacks and intertwining skills unleashing a large number of different strageties and tactics.
GW2 is much more tactical than your general MMO pvp gear grinders because it specifically balances the battlefield without gear types. Yes there will be flavor of the month team builds and common strategies just like LoL, but Anet will constantly be tweaking abilities and such so the tactics will be constantly changing.
As for battlefields, I don't know but I'm pretty sure its more than just one lol. They will set up like dedicated servers in the game, so I'm guessing at least 3-5 at lauch.
Then if you not into the whole hardcore tactical strategy type of PvP, there is the WvWvW which will be more casual and revolve around army tactics like manuvering and logistics (which points to capture and defend).
Basically, because there is no gear, Anet can in fact make PvP deeper and more varied because of the strategy, team makeups, and ability cohesion.
Very well put. I completely agree. Fun is it's own reward and with no subscription fee, the only carrot the game needs is that it provides fun, along with some cool looking gear to show off, just to keep things fresh.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
There's nothing wrong with the OP wanting to get better gear as he progresses in PvP. But as many other's stated before, then GW2 PvP simply isn't for him. He should pick another game to statisfy his gear grind PvP needs. (I myself think GW2's PvP will be tons of fun).
There is something I want to clarify the OP stated in one of his postings tho:
Not exactly no. You can play PvP matches with your PvE character. But when you do so if you haven't progressed to max level on that character and therefore don't have max level gear yet, the PvP system will compensate that so you have the same stats and skills that a max leveled character has. (Don't know if this is also the case with WvWvW) So it still remains a matter of player skill that determines the outcome of a match and not the gear or level or number of skills, even if you haven't maxed your character yet and just want to try some PvP with it. If you want to create a different PvP only character, that is also possible (same as in GW1) but you don't need to.
My opinion is that how GW2 handles PvP is preferable to games having PvP gear tiers, because with the latter, the longer a game is out and the more PvP gear tiers are added, the more difficult it becomes for new players (who picked the game up later) to get into PvP. What fun is PvP if you have to let yourself get ganked 100s of matches long before you're able to get the gear to be able to win PvP matches based on your skill and not on your gear, because only then the gear difference doesn't play a role anymore.
WoW PvP carebears! PvP General Carebears! GTFO MY GW2!, you dont have anything to do here.
Farm2win players QQ.
Skillful players this is your place, here i call you!
That being said GW2 isnt for you Farm2winners.
In fact they do only they are indirect. If you know some area well you can use it to your advantage combining with the rewards
In WoW, PvP is Gear = Win, In GW2 it will be Skill = Win. In vanilla, PvP was fun in WoW. Then they added resilence in TBC and now all you need to do is stack that and you win. I stopped pvping on my shadow priest shortly after TBC. Since my mind blast crit was just as bad as a ret pallys dps in vanilla.
They (Anet) never said anywhere that you can ONLY get cosmetic gear with PvP. It's just one of many ways. You can also get new skins for your gear by running dungeons in hardmode, crafting and killing world bosses. And there might be other ways I don't know about (In GW1 participating in certain events and doing certain mini-games also gave you new skins).
EDIT: I misread your text, you probably mean PvP only gear and not that the only way to get gear is PvP. I do not object to that by the way, gives the dedicated pvp player some way to show his skill visually to other players.
GW2 has lesser skills than GW1 that's true, but it's skillsystem is much deeper than GW1:
- Different weapons give different skills and can be swapped during combat, therefore you have much more skills at your disposal than the 8 in GW1.
- You get four skills to fight for your life when you are downed.
- Picking up items give you other skills you can use in combat.
- Thief can steal stuff which gives other skills, engineer can equip certain kits which gives other skills, elementalists have four different elemantal attunements which change the skillbar completely and there are other mechanics which give you much more skills than the 10 skills on your skillbar you seem to have on a first glance.
- Every profession has, and some races have (norn, asura) a certain formskill which changes appearance and skillbar.
- There are certain skills which change in a different skill when actived, so they are actually two in one or even three in one (if you cast bone minions for example, they will explode if you press the skill button again when the bone minions are out (in GW1 they were 2 seperate skills)).
- And finally skills of different professions interact, creating devastating combo's when combined. (Another example: If you fire an arrow as a ranger through a wall of fire that has been cast by an elementalist you get fire arrows which do more damage and give burning condition to a foe).
How is this a dumbed down skill system as you suggested?
Furthermore: GW2 endgame doesn't only consist of doing PvP like you state here. PvP is just one of many things you can do when you maxed your character. There will be hard mode dungeons, doing dynamic events you skipped before (which are scaled up in difficulty when higher level characters attain them so they remain a challenge), at least 15 mini-games, titles and achievements to go after, crafting and other stuff I forgot.
For a person who claims to have followed GW2 closely for two years your post is quite ill-informed...
Any of the new MMOs nowadays dont keep me intrested for long basicly when WoW made the mmo market into single player based games with chat room and called it an mmo was when i started to loose intrest in games. just waiting for a game to change that and GW2 looks like it may do that, i say may because current big games have be somewhat of a let down for quite some time