Face it: Its not SWTOR.....it's you.

Moaky07 · February 2012

Originally posted by adam_nox
What the OP is saying is that it isn't HIM, it's you. This is just psychology. It's completely irrelevant whether the game is bad on an absolute level or if it's all relative to the player. Complaining about it not 'fitting' with expectations is valid in either case.

But if someone likes the game, or is trying to like the game, or trying to convince themselves the game is good when it's not, they might see complaints and have to look for some reason why everyone they disagree with is wrong without having to argue any points with them.

In truth, they are bothered not just by the complaining, but by the very idea that people don't like what they like, and that maybe they like a bad game, or worse yet, they don't even like it and are afraid to face it. If they didn't fear the idea that the game is the problem, then why post, why not just go and play the game and have fun and avoid forum opinions?

Dude, you posted in the WOW forums asking folks not to start shit about the game, and you come here to post this? Simply shaking my head.

BTW El....you have bitched on and off for like 18 months now that basically this game wasnt SWG 2. So for someone not liking "shit sandwiches", you sure were in line to buy one. I know you understand shitty titles, as you were a SWG fan. That game was about the biggest POS game ever produced. So you definitely have experience.

SOE couldnt of sold 2M copies of SWG this fast, even if they had Smed sitting in a dunk tank for those buying the game, and nude cheerleaders ringing up the transactions.

Caldrin · February 2012

Originally posted by Moaky07

Originally posted by adam_nox

What the OP is saying is that it isn't HIM, it's you. This is just psychology. It's completely irrelevant whether the game is bad on an absolute level or if it's all relative to the player. Complaining about it not 'fitting' with expectations is valid in either case.

But if someone likes the game, or is trying to like the game, or trying to convince themselves the game is good when it's not, they might see complaints and have to look for some reason why everyone they disagree with is wrong without having to argue any points with them.

In truth, they are bothered not just by the complaining, but by the very idea that people don't like what they like, and that maybe they like a bad game, or worse yet, they don't even like it and are afraid to face it. If they didn't fear the idea that the game is the problem, then why post, why not just go and play the game and have fun and avoid forum opinions?

Dude, you posted in the WOW forums asking folks not to start shit about the game, and you come here to post this? Simply shaking my head.

BTW El....you have bitched on and off for like 18 months now that basically this game wasnt SWG 2. So for someone not liking "shit sandwiches", you sure were in line to buy one. I know you understand shitty titles, as you were a SWG fan. That game was about the biggest POS game ever produced. So you definitely have experience.

SOE couldnt of sold 2M copies of SWG this fast, even if they had Smed sitting in a dunk tank for those buying the game, and nude cheerleaders ringing up the transactions.

Because when SWG was released MMORPGs where not that popular.. that only changed after WoW came oout and all the kiddies started to play adn it become "COOL" to play WoW.

If SWG was released now with a modern engine and modern interface I am pretty sure it would sell 2 million copies no problem at all.. The fact that it sold 1 million back in its day was crazy.. Not even EQ came close to doing that..

Vesavius · February 2012

Originally posted by Moaky07
BTW El....you have bitched on and off for like 18 months now that basically this game wasnt SWG 2. So for someone not liking "shit sandwiches", you sure were in line to buy one.

It does confuse me why someone that knows they aren't gonna like it buys it anyhow... I have to agree with that.

SOE couldnt of sold 2M copies of SWG this fast, even if they had Smed sitting in a dunk tank for those buying the game, and nude cheerleaders ringing up the transactions.

I am not so sure... Depends what was in the dunk tank.

SanHor · February 2012

Originally posted by Corehaven

Originally posted by Tenebroso

SWTOR is what it is. I repeat: SWTOR is what it is. You should read it again. SWTOR in its current form bothers you because...you expect something out of a game that can't give you what you need. What you need is to be content and excited about an MMO again, like you were with your first one before you got bored of it. My friends, that feeling will never come back. It is human nature, to get bored and to move on to other things. The thing itself that you once loved and now you don't, is not to blame here. You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. You make a toon, cast spells and swing a weapon at a mob, quest etc...which MMO doesn't have this? Maybe this is what you are bored with? And when an MMO is made which doesn't have all that, will it be an MMO? So, could it be that really this isn't about SWTOR, but actually you trying to make SWTOR what it can never be for you? Truth hurts. Remember: "Situations, don't make the man. They reveal him, to himself" -Socrates Now flame away :-)

Okay, except you're totally wrong! Congratulations.

I just started playing an older mmorpg and Im having a blast and have for several months now. Its called Pirates of the Burning Sea. I started with UO. I've played plenty of WoW and experimented with others.

The reason Im not pleased with Swtor is Ive played better games and I know what the industry can deliver. Some movies I love, others I hate. It has nothing to do with the fact Im still in love with my first movie and yearn for every movie to excite me as much.

Your entire reasoning is flawed unfortunately. The reason people are disatisfied with Swtor (if indeed they are) is because they've played better games, mmorpgs and otherwise and have come to expect better from the industry as a whole. Even you could admit Swtor could have been much better. Why? Because you've probably seen far better. We know it can be done. It was not done here.

Period.

Coudln't have said it better myself.

Tenebroso · February 2012

........What?

Moaky07 · February 2012

Originally posted by Vesavius

Originally posted by Moaky07
BTW El....you have bitched on and off for like 18 months now that basically this game wasnt SWG 2. So for someone not liking "shit sandwiches", you sure were in line to buy one.

It does confuse me why someone that knows they aren't gonna like it buys it anyhow... I have to agree with that.

SOE couldnt of sold 2M copies of SWG this fast, even if they had Smed sitting in a dunk tank for those buying the game, and nude cheerleaders ringing up the transactions.

I am not so sure... Depends what was in the dunk tank.

Could of been Mutant Bass with fricken lazer beams, and it still wouldnt of mattered.

Kyleran · February 2012

Originally posted by Tenebroso

If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will notice that I am asking and offering a new point of view as to why someone may be unhappy with SWTOR. I didnt label everyone or their issues.

And Wicoa...you are saying that every time you kiss the same gal, your heart races, you breath heavier and feel all those emotions over and over again every single time exactly the same?

And SWTOR gives what it gives. Waiting for people to group is part of playing an MMO isn't it not? SWTOR doesn't have instant group forming capabilities, you know that. What's the surprise here?

Playing SWTOR, sort of like kissing your sister... unsatisfying and wrong even though the mechanics are similar to what you have done before.

Of course it's us....we have high (dare I say unrealistic?) expectations, and if a MMO fails to meet them, we're going to b!tch. It's at the heart of forum PVP, and it is irrelevant if the game wasn't designed to our specifications, we're still going to complain about it here on MMORPG.com, because....its PVP and fun. (besides, what I like everyone else should like, simple truth)

Raven · February 2012

Originally posted by psyknx
Complete bullshit.

SWG, Darkfall, HnH and most recently Wakfu all gave me that excitement. Why? Because it offers new and interesting stuff.

Unlike.. you know what game.

Edit: Will also add that I played all those games for over 2 years, SWG even longer. (Wakfu isnt out yet but probably will too)

You made your argument invalid by mentioning you were eagerly waiting for a game that is absolutely terrible and probably one of the worse games ever released Darkfall, please bring more SWTOR if the alternative is Darkfall.

Promised more and offered a lot less.

Mothanos · February 2012

Ability delay bug

RNG on pvp gear

Massive faction imbalance with no bonus for repubs to try and counter this

Ilum pvp a sad joke

Exploits in voidstar

Amount of CC is ridiculous

Skillcap for mercs / sorcs versus a marauder man gotte love those tracer spamming scrubs out dpsing anyone

Range versus melee in SWTOR.....why even bother...

Flashpoint voice over taking 70% of a run i did already like 50 times....

Performance issues for many many people with high end systems

These are but a few thing i can name wuthout thinking wich totaly destroys alot of fun when playing and PAYING SWTOR.

Now tell me OP you like swtor ? if you do your paying for a beta state game.

I liked SWTOR the 1st week and the second week and in the 3trd week i was getting agrovated more and more with each day passing by.

The good points of SWTOR are totaly overschadowed by the bad points.

They could have learned from Warhammer / Aion and WoW on many issues. but where to blind to do so.

I still hang around till my sub ends in 1.5 months, but man what a disaster Bioware created.

This mmo will not hit the target, not when Diablo 3 / GW2 / Archage / Tera and god knows whats comming out this or the next year.

Sad story as Bioware just needed to expand their beta's untill they fixed ALOT of issues.

Even with 1.7 million acitve subs at this moment the game will lose players more rapid then they gain.

SWTOR can be placed inline with

Aion

Warhammer

If you like bad products and pay for it keep doing that, support bad games so we get more shit like this as if we dint have enough trash from mmo developers who created MMO's to gain profit with half rotten games.

I for one will no longer support Bioware's SWTOR.

Moaky07 · February 2012

Originally posted by Mothanos
Ability delay bug

RNG on pvp gear

Massive faction imbalance with no bonus for repubs to try and counter this

Ilum pvp a sad joke

Exploits in voidstar

Amount of CC is ridiculous

Skillcap for mercs / sorcs versus a marauder man gotte love those tracer spamming scrubs out dpsing anyone

Range versus melee in SWTOR.....why even bother...

Flashpoint voice over taking 70% of a run i did already like 50 times....

Performance issues for many many people with high end systems

These are but a few thing i can name wuthout thinking wich totaly destroys alot of fun when playing and PAYING SWTOR.

Now tell me OP you like swtor ? if you do your paying for a beta state game.

I liked SWTOR the 1st week and the second week and in the 3trd week i was getting agrovated more and more with each day passing by.

The good points of SWTOR are totaly overschadowed by the bad points.

They could have learned from Warhammer / Aion and WoW on many issues. but where to blind to do so.

I still hang around till my sub ends in 1.5 months, but man what a disaster Bioware created.

This mmo will not hit the target, not when Diablo 3 / GW2 / Archage / Tera and god knows whats comming out this or the next year.

Sad story as Bioware just needed to expand their beta's untill they fixed ALOT of issues.

Even with 1.7 million acitve subs at this moment the game will lose players more rapid then they gain.

SWTOR can be placed inline with

Aion

Warhammer

If you like bad products and pay for it keep doing that, support bad games so we get more shit like this as if we dint have enough trash from mmo developers who created MMO's to gain profit with half rotten games.

I for one will no longer support Bioware's SWTOR.

Says who? You?

I dont know if you paid attention, but there are far more servers dedicated to PVE than there are PVP ones. The PVE is a good time. Hopefully they eventually make PVP as enjoyable, but seeing as how PVP hasnt been BW's focus in prior games, I dont know how that will go.

What I do know is if they keep making the PVE experience better, and adding content, the far majority of their playerbase will be getting exactly what they want.

Lupinde3rd · February 2012

Originally posted by Tenebroso

SWTOR is what it is. I repeat: SWTOR is what it is. You should read it again. SWTOR in its current form bothers you because...you expect something out of a game that can't give you what you need. What you need is to be content and excited about an MMO again, like you were with your first one before you got bored of it. My friends, that feeling will never come back. It is human nature, to get bored and to move on to other things. The thing itself that you once loved and now you don't, is not to blame here. You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. You make a toon, cast spells and swing a weapon at a mob, quest etc...which MMO doesn't have this? Maybe this is what you are bored with? And when an MMO is made which doesn't have all that, will it be an MMO? So, could it be that really this isn't about SWTOR, but actually you trying to make SWTOR what it can never be for you? Truth hurts. Remember: "Situations, don't make the man. They reveal him, to himself" -Socrates Now flame away :-)

The game is a pile a crap no matter what way you want to look at it.

PyrateLV · February 2012

@ OP. Nope, Im pretty sure its SWTOR

DeaconX · February 2012

It's absolutely me and my belief that SWTOR is a shallow shell of what if could have been if BioWare didn't shoot for medicore, 'play-it-safe' design.

jdnewell · February 2012

Maybe it is me.

I honestly expected alot more than we got. Maybe it is my fault for expecting a known developer with a huge budget to produce a superior product.

I wont list the disappointing aspects of the game as that horse is a puddle of red goo from being beaten so much. And its all opinion for each person anyways.

If you like TOR and enjoy it then I am happy you ( and others) have found a game to play and enjoy. Myself ( and others ) choose not to play because we do not enjoy what was offered.

So I will have to agree it is me. I expected a much better game.

metalcore · February 2012

I played for a month, had no desire near the end to log on.

Game was way too easy, no challenge, boring in fact.

No sense of danger or risk in anything.

As a whole, generally not for me, got better things to do to waste my time, like Skyrim!

Loke666 · February 2012

Yeah, it is us but it is also because the game launched rather late, if it had launched 3 years ago it would have been a lot more popular than when it launched late 2011.

The game do what it is suppose to do excellent, but a lot of people have finally gotten tired of the same MMO mechanics recycled over and over.

Anyone who are new to MMOs or just played a little will probably love it but most people here have played for years, some of us over 15 years and eventually you tire of the same thing.

TheLizardbones · February 2012

I agree with Tenebroso, but it applies to a lot of comments on this site, not just comments on ToR. People don't like (for instance) Darkfall, not because of the game's mechanical faults, but because they don't like FFA PvP. Very few people will highlight actual issues with the game that aren't opinions on the type of game it is.

Also, I've suggested that Tenebroso change their avatar to a cute coyote puppy to see if they can get away with calling people dorks. I don't expect it to actually work, but I do think it might be fun to watch.

<- Like this maybe.

Bergir · February 2012

Originally posted by Tenebroso

SWTOR is what it is. I repeat: SWTOR is what it is. You should read it again. SWTOR in its current form bothers you because...you expect something out of a game that can't give you what you need. What you need is to be content and excited about an MMO again, like you were with your first one before you got bored of it. My friends, that feeling will never come back. It is human nature, to get bored and to move on to other things. The thing itself that you once loved and now you don't, is not to blame here. You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. You make a toon, cast spells and swing a weapon at a mob, quest etc...which MMO doesn't have this? Maybe this is what you are bored with? And when an MMO is made which doesn't have all that, will it be an MMO? So, could it be that really this isn't about SWTOR, but actually you trying to make SWTOR what it can never be for you? Truth hurts. Remember: "Situations, don't make the man. They reveal him, to himself" -Socrates Now flame away :-)

I agree completly it took me nearly 10 years to burn out on EQ, 6 years to burn out on EQ2, 6 years to burn out on galaxies, whaaaa?

I think some people miss old school mmo's as they were as complex as they were massive is scale which held your interest for more than a week. To blame all people is incorrect as it's the game companies whom are creating these linear single player mmo's.

In a way i miss them old days yet at the same time i could never go back to those type games the way they were back then. Different lifestyle now. SO glad i was there in the pioneering days of mmo's and i guess i could consider myself lucky they have dumbed the games down to a level that even a toddler could comprehend because otherwise i simple would not have the time for them anymore.

What truly amazes me though and i'll use EQ2 as an example; i'll revisit the old guilds and sites and find people i raided and spent so many late nights with right from launch still there and still as devoted today as they were back when the game launched, that amazes me.

Loke666 · February 2012

Originally posted by lizardbones
I agree with Tenebroso, but it applies to a lot of comments on this site, not just comments on ToR. People don't like (for instance) Darkfall, not because of the game's mechanical faults, but because they don't like FFA PvP. Very few people will highlight actual issues with the game that aren't opinions on the type of game it is.

Also, I've suggested that Tenebroso change their avatar to a cute coyote puppy to see if they can get away with calling people dorks. I don't expect it to actually work, but I do think it might be fun to watch.

No FFA PvP game have become very popular since UO, that is true.

But that does not neccesarily mean that the concept doesn´t work, Darkfalls problem is deeper than mechanics, it is very poorly coded and no poorly coded game will be big no matter what you do with it.

FFA PvP could work with the right mechanics and a good enough game.

The difference between TOR and Darkfall is that TOR is good doing what it is supposed to do. Not all of us like what TOR is supposed to do though, that does not mean it is a bad game just that I wont play it.

baritone3k · February 2012

I hope you know that most people reading this see through your attempts to pretend you are just stating that SWTOR might not be the game for them, because that is not all you said.

"You simply have gotten burned out from MMOs all together, chasing a feeling and a thrill that will never be back, because you have leveled a toon before, and the core elements of an MMO, in order to be an MMO, never change. It is like kissing your first girl, making your first high volume sale, buying your first car, surviving your first public speech. After a while, things just get old. "

In the quotation above, you make a very solid statement and support it with weak examples stating the WHY it is not for "us". When you do that, you invite responses that refute your reasoning.

Here is my refutation (why? because it's fun to do).

Burned out from MMOs altogether?

No, I am not.

--- I paid extra to play Korean TERA, because I enjoy this genre both for the immersive lose yoursef in a virtual world aspect and the social aspect. But doing the same old WoW attack structure (not the autoattack, autoattack is fine, but lock on targeting and simple rotation/prioritization combat) is tiring to me. What makes TERA tap into my interest in MMOs is a combination of the graphics, scope pf the world (explorabe vistas without the loading screens) and gameplay innovations (the innovation in TERA's gameplay is that they modeled the gameplay after action game combat(God of War, Devil May Cry, etc.). This was enough to keep me playing for a bit without any of the social aspect (I don't speak, read or write Korean).

SWTOR was never going to capture the combat innovation of a TERA or GW2, but it could have replaced WoW as my virtual chat room with a background of mindless combat, but it also failed to do this. Combat in SWTOR is actually a step back from WoW's in terms of responsiveness. It is spongey, and for me about a month or so of story/lightsabers and force powers made up for that. But the sloppiness of the game was too much.

Now, as for your examples -

Kissing girls is awesome. I am married, so I can't kiss other girs any more, but it is still awesome.

BUT - that isn't the extent of what you have tried to argue in this thread - you had a follow up question asking if kissing the SAME girl was still exciting. Well, you are confusing the parts of your simile. The girl is the game, not the genre. The kissing is the genre. So, you are talking about kissing new girls, and very few people woud say that they tire of it. Woe to he who does tire of it (Maybe kissing a guy will help. Try it out, if you are bored with girls. Or get an anti-depressant.).

Making your first high volume sale is amazing, but making an even BIGGER high volume sale is the shiznit! Or try making that kind of sale in an industry that matters instead of just at some car dealership or on a real estate lot.

How exciting is it to buy a Nissan Sentra? If it's your first car, probably exciting. But are you able to argue that that same person wouldn't have a carboner puling off the lot with his first Porsche. Or even with his 10th NEW Porsche but this time it is with the better engine and they got the color just right for him? Or with the vintage z300 he wanted in high school but never got but now is able to get?

Man, talking in front of the entire Jr. High was scary and exhilirating when that kid was first starting out and running for class president. But do you think that holds a candle to when he mounted the podium to Aretha Franklin singing the national anthem and Yo-yo Ma playing the cello as that kid now grown took command of the USA?

It's not about NOVELTY for us. It is about quality.

MMOs are not heroine. They are not the same product over and over that just doesn't scratch the same way the first one did. We are dealing with an evolving, living genre that will go forward or backward based on our tastes dependent on how vocal or accepting of weaknesses we are.

Make SWTOR prettier, tighten up the combat, make the NPCs use AI and not be cardboard cutouts, and I will resub. It won't be my TERA once TERA comes out, but it will be my WoW. I love me some lightsabers.

Doomedfox · February 2012

Originally posted by Elikal
Oh yes, now that you say it!

Why am I not satisfied with McDonalds? Eat shit! If you have a problem with that, its YOUR fault! Why was I so demanding?? OMG!

To be fair if you dont like McD but keep going there to eat you really cant blame anyone but yourself tho....

Zekiah · February 2012

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by Tenebroso

If you read my post a bit more carefully, you will notice that I am asking and offering a new point of view as to why someone may be unhappy with SWTOR. I didnt label everyone or their issues.

And Wicoa...you are saying that every time you kiss the same gal, your heart races, you breath heavier and feel all those emotions over and over again every single time exactly the same?

And SWTOR gives what it gives. Waiting for people to group is part of playing an MMO isn't it not? SWTOR doesn't have instant group forming capabilities, you know that. What's the surprise here?

Playing SWTOR, sort of like kissing your sister... unsatisfying and wrong even though the mechanics are similar to what you have done before.

Of course it's us....we have high (dare I say unrealistic?) expectations, and if a MMO fails to meet them, we're going to b!tch. It's at the heart of forum PVP, and it is irrelevant if the game wasn't designed to our specifications, we're still going to complain about it here on MMORPG.com, because....its PVP and fun. (besides, what I like everyone else should like, simple truth)

I don't think they're unrealistic at all, I just think the MMOs of today suck. Period.

Ceridith · February 2012

Yup, OP is right, it's me.

I just can't enjoy overly instanced "MMO" games with on-rails story content and mediocre game mechanics.

Though I never assumed the game would be anything other than this considering it's made by Bioware. And best of all, I never wasted $60 on the game

meccariello · February 2012

i agree. the game is a fine game. the players are older and jaded ....

monarc333 · February 2012

I just think a lot of us are burntout with this genre. I like TOR mostly because I like Star Wars. But I see the arguments being made about it being more of the same and I agree. It is more of the same. There are times when I dont have a problem with that playstyle or configuration, but more and more I'm growing weary of it.

The problem is I dont know how different or revolutionary a MMO can be going forward. We've seen raids, pvp, faction wars, tons of social ingame content, exlporable worlds, different type fo crafting, mounts (flying and not), boats, homes, guild houses and the list goes. Whats left to do?

How can mmos going forward be something totally diffrent than whats come before? The only thing that hasnt been addressed is the holy trinity. Tank, DPS, Healing specific classes. Well, GW2 claims to fix this "problem". Are they the holy grail of mmos coming out? What if they fail? What then? Time will tell I'm afraid.

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Face it: Its not SWTOR.....it's you.

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV