Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
This isn't about not being able to criticize a game.
This is about you completely misrepresenting or misunderstanding the system (see orange), then saying that we're defending it out of blind fanboyism.
If you understand the system as described, which as far as the information I'm presented with pretty much seems like "functionally identical to trading, except it happens at any distance, goes to your mailbox to prevent overflow problems, and also requires a bird to be present" and then want to criticize it, then be my guest.
Or, of course, if you can provide information that the system isn't as I described, then by all means please correct me.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Basicly it means that all trading is going trough official channels- properly means more control with that everything going on is legit! and also introduce some moneyzinks. and less basis for scams
that could be why!
Remember what people said about TOR when it was missing even the most basic mmorpg features......GW2 is fine though
Oh damn one feature.
On topic though, I have to somewhat agree that it is an odd one, however I only remeber trading (on a massive scale in other MMOs) pots and scrolls really, and sometimes mats but that was rare, I could see if the lag between mailing is not there, then its ok, but if you have to wait ( and I highly doubt that you would have to wait more than 30 secs ) I am pretty sure its not going to be 1 hours lol.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
I think at this point, Anet has proven that if something is left out of the game, it was done intentionally. They're going over this game with a fine-toothed comb, that trade was left out has some meaning to them even if its blind to us. Further, I've yet to see anyone complain about trading in the game, so there's only so much of a hinderance it could be.
I have to admit, this is bugging me as well, the lack of face-to-face trade. But because of what I stated above, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I get my hands on it and try it myself. It could all happen instantly, in which case it basically is far superior to face-to-face trading as it can happen from ANYWHERE on the map. That's awesome. If there's some lag time, that could potentially pose an issue. I guess we'll see.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
Oh and Prae don't worry bro I actually do see what you mean, this feature is different whether it'll be better or not is still to be determined how ever I do like the standard face to face, I don't use it much but willing to see what they are going for you know what I mean? It could be better or it could be worse but gotta get em credit for taking a different approach ya digg?
I do, I think that the idea of no mailboxes and the "little bird" is quite good; however, it would be better in conjunction with face-to-face trading if the need arose. I just think it's insane that people can't say, Wow... they should add that. instead, they say, well, it must be the way to go if they're doing it...
I like free thinkers who question everything. I give credit where it's do, and I critizise when it's needed. I can't think of one mmo I have loved EVERYTHING about. Yet, there are folks around here who refuse to say one negative word about this game. That's not fair and it's not honest. How can you take someone seriously who is so one-sided?
On topic though, I have to somewhat agree that it is an odd one, however I only remeber trading (on a massive scale in other MMOs) pots and scrolls really, and sometimes mats but that was rare, I could see if the lag between mailing is not there, then its ok, but if you have to wait ( and I highly doubt that you would have to wait more than 30 secs ) I am pretty sure its not going to be 1 hours lol.
This concept is that idiotic CORPG philosophy that worked in GW. That crap is not going to fly in a mmorpg model and anyone in there right mind should know this.
Take it from the TOR fans crying for the game to release while ignoring obvious missing features will just cause the game to lose subs.
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
This isn't about not being able to criticize a game.
This is about you completely misrepresenting or misunderstanding the system (see orange), then saying that we're defending it out of blind fanboyism.
If you understand the system as described, which as far as the information I'm presented with pretty much seems like "functionally identical to trading, except it happens at any distance, goes to your mailbox to prevent overflow problems, and also requires a bird to be present" and then want to criticize it, then be my guest.
Or, of course, if you can provide information that the system isn't as I described, then by all means please correct me.
Can you provide me with information showing that the system works as YOU described? Like I said. You are all ASSUMING that the mail system is instantaneous. We don't know that. No one does. The game hasn't been tested on a scale large enough to safely make that assumption. Let's say the game is immensely popular with tons of players... you really think there will be no issues waiting for mail at anytime? I think it safer to say that some issues may pop their heads.
So, wouldn't it be a fabulous idea to have face-to-face trading AND the little birdy mailing system? Just in case? Like I said. The new system doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I would still prefer face-to-face trading and I'm not alone.
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
Oh and Prae don't worry bro I actually do see what you mean, this feature is different whether it'll be better or not is still to be determined how ever I do like the standard face to face, I don't use it much but willing to see what they are going for you know what I mean? It could be better or it could be worse but gotta get em credit for taking a different approach ya digg?
I do, I think that the idea of no mailboxes and the "little bird" is quite good; however, it would be better in conjunction with face-to-face trading if the need arose. I just think it's insane that people can't say, Wow... they should add that. instead, they say, well, it must be the way to go if they're doing it...
I like free thinkers who question everything. I give credit where it's do, and I critizise when it's needed. I can't think of one mmo I have loved EVERYTHING about. Yet, there are folks around here who refuse to say one negative word about this game. That's not fair and it's not honest. How can you take someone seriously who is so one-sided?
The graphics are nice, but can't compete with a lot of current-gen MMOs.
There's no questing.
No mounts.
No open PvP.
No dedicated support class.
[Insert GW1 Class] isn't returning.
[Insert GW1 Class] is.
World isn't fully open.
Taking too long to come out, losing interest.
Gear doesn't mean enough.
Too easy to level.
Mecha in a fantasy world.
Yet more dragons.
Underwater content.
I could go on and on about the things I see people complain about with GW2. The game receives plenty of criticism, I don't know what you're talking about. As for the blind fanatics that act like the game is perfect, I could point this out about every game that has ever existed, EVER. I could even point out some to you that think FF14 was perfect just the way it was and nothing needed to change. You act like this is exclusive to GW2. Is there more excitement for GW2? Probably, but the reasons for that speak for itself.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
On topic though, I have to somewhat agree that it is an odd one, however I only remeber trading (on a massive scale in other MMOs) pots and scrolls really, and sometimes mats but that was rare, I could see if the lag between mailing is not there, then its ok, but if you have to wait ( and I highly doubt that you would have to wait more than 30 secs ) I am pretty sure its not going to be 1 hours lol.
This concept is that idiotic CORPG philosophy that worked in GW. That crap is not going to fly in a mmorpg model and anyone in there right mind should know this.
Take it from the TOR fans crying for the game to release while ignoring obvious missing features will just cause the game to lose subs.
I bet that after the game launches they add face to face trading due to the demand of the players... then all these people will think it was the greatest thing ever invented and praise them for adding it.
This is just like when I was complaining to my dad... a rabib apple user that the iphone did not have drop down notification menu like android had... He yelled and me and told me that Apple knows what they're doing and it doesn't matter if they had it, he wouldn't use it and doesn't see a need to have it.
THENNNNN - A year or so later, Apple announces that they are adding a notification drop down menu.. he actually called me and expressed he excitement about the drop down menu and what a great idea it was to have it on the iPhone not even acknowledging that we ever had the initial argument ...ROFL.
On topic though, I have to somewhat agree that it is an odd one, however I only remeber trading (on a massive scale in other MMOs) pots and scrolls really, and sometimes mats but that was rare, I could see if the lag between mailing is not there, then its ok, but if you have to wait ( and I highly doubt that you would have to wait more than 30 secs ) I am pretty sure its not going to be 1 hours lol.
This concept is that idiotic CORPG philosophy that worked in GW. That crap is not going to fly in a mmorpg model and anyone in there right mind should know this.
Take it from the TOR fans crying for the game to release while ignoring obvious missing features will just cause the game to lose subs.
UMMMM GW1 had face to face trading O_O
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
This isn't about not being able to criticize a game.
This is about you completely misrepresenting or misunderstanding the system (see orange), then saying that we're defending it out of blind fanboyism.
If you understand the system as described, which as far as the information I'm presented with pretty much seems like "functionally identical to trading, except it happens at any distance, goes to your mailbox to prevent overflow problems, and also requires a bird to be present" and then want to criticize it, then be my guest.
Or, of course, if you can provide information that the system isn't as I described, then by all means please correct me.
Can you provide me with information showing that the system works as YOU described? Like I said. You are all ASSUMING that the mail system is instantaneous. We don't know that. No one does. The game hasn't been tested on a scale large enough to safely make that assumption. Let's say the game is immensely popular with tons of players... you really think there will be no issues waiting for mail at anytime? I think it safer to say that some issues may pop their heads.
So, wouldn't it be a fabulous idea to have face-to-face trading AND the little birdy mailing system? Just in case? Like I said. The new system doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I would still prefer face-to-face trading and I'm not alone.
First, it's a trade system through the mail. It's not just mail. It's a trade system through the mail. Trade systems don't make you wait an hour for it to get there. GW2 isn't going to go to all this trouble of instant teleportation, not having to wait to find a group, trivial death penalty, not having to be on the same stage of a quest, eliminating leveling grind, learning weapon skills quickly, etc, etc and then make the trade system through the mail be the one place in the game that's a pain in the ass. No way is that happening.
Secondly, here's the mail. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Stfx0Lk0qQ4#t=897s This guy is about to check his mail. Try to spot the bird. I've paused it at 15:01, 15:02, 15:03. I can't see it. edit: OH the bird comes when he gets the message when he gets mail, not when he actually checks it. Still, it's there for like a second.
Might there occassionally be a problem with the mail system? Probably, all games have problems. But if a game is designed around being able to have 100 people fight a dragon at the same time, I don't know why there would be problems with a mail based trade system, any more than there would be problems with a non-mail based trade system in terms of being able to process the transaction.
Thirdly, trading is NOT face to face in any game I know.
This is the GW1 trade window.
This is the WoW trade window.
This is the "face to face" trading that everyone is demanding?
And finally... You want a situation where players have to decide which of two trade systems they want to be able to use? Like two people are going to click confirm on a mail based trade, have it hang in the middle of it, and then actually say "let's cancel this trade and try again using the face to face system." Or one person is going to open the trade with one system and the other is going to open the other system at the same time?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
This isn't about not being able to criticize a game.
This is about you completely misrepresenting or misunderstanding the system (see orange), then saying that we're defending it out of blind fanboyism.
If you understand the system as described, which as far as the information I'm presented with pretty much seems like "functionally identical to trading, except it happens at any distance, goes to your mailbox to prevent overflow problems, and also requires a bird to be present" and then want to criticize it, then be my guest.
Or, of course, if you can provide information that the system isn't as I described, then by all means please correct me.
Can you provide me with information showing that the system works as YOU described? Like I said. You are all ASSUMING that the mail system is instantaneous. We don't know that. No one does. The game hasn't been tested on a scale large enough to safely make that assumption. Let's say the game is immensely popular with tons of players... you really think there will be no issues waiting for mail at anytime? I think it safer to say that some issues may pop their heads.
So, wouldn't it be a fabulous idea to have face-to-face trading AND the little birdy mailing system? Just in case? Like I said. The new system doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I would still prefer face-to-face trading and I'm not alone.
I can as easily assure that there will be no delay in mailing the item to another person, as you can assure me there is never any lag when you do a face to face trade. Since I've been sitting in the same room with someone when we do a face to face trade and I can see the delay, you can't tell me there is never an lag in a face to face trade. Well you could but you would be making stuff up.
On topic though, I have to somewhat agree that it is an odd one, however I only remeber trading (on a massive scale in other MMOs) pots and scrolls really, and sometimes mats but that was rare, I could see if the lag between mailing is not there, then its ok, but if you have to wait ( and I highly doubt that you would have to wait more than 30 secs ) I am pretty sure its not going to be 1 hours lol.
This concept is that idiotic CORPG philosophy that worked in GW. That crap is not going to fly in a mmorpg model and anyone in there right mind should know this.
Take it from the TOR fans crying for the game to release while ignoring obvious missing features will just cause the game to lose subs.
I bet that after the game launches they add face to face trading due to the demand of the players... then all these people will think it was the greatest thing ever invented and praise them for adding it.
This is just like when I was complaining to my dad... a rabib apple user that the iphone did not have drop down notification menu like android had... He yelled and me and told me that Apple knows what they're doing and it doesn't matter if they had it, he wouldn't use it and doesn't see a need to have it.
THENNNNN - A year or so later, Apple announces that they are adding a notification drop down menu.. he actually called me and expressed he excitement about the drop down menu and what a great idea it was to have it on the iPhone not even acknowledging that we ever had the initial argument ...ROFL.
What I'm taking away from this example is that you're resistant to the idea of a mail based trade system, then you're going to try it, realize it's better than face to face, love it, and not even acknowledge this initial argument.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
This isn't about not being able to criticize a game.
This is about you completely misrepresenting or misunderstanding the system (see orange), then saying that we're defending it out of blind fanboyism.
If you understand the system as described, which as far as the information I'm presented with pretty much seems like "functionally identical to trading, except it happens at any distance, goes to your mailbox to prevent overflow problems, and also requires a bird to be present" and then want to criticize it, then be my guest.
Or, of course, if you can provide information that the system isn't as I described, then by all means please correct me.
Can you provide me with information showing that the system works as YOU described? Like I said. You are all ASSUMING that the mail system is instantaneous. We don't know that. No one does. The game hasn't been tested on a scale large enough to safely make that assumption. Let's say the game is immensely popular with tons of players... you really think there will be no issues waiting for mail at anytime? I think it safer to say that some issues may pop their heads.
So, wouldn't it be a fabulous idea to have face-to-face trading AND the little birdy mailing system? Just in case? Like I said. The new system doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I would still prefer face-to-face trading and I'm not alone.
/snipity
Cali, thanks for the pictures of GW1 and WoW... but I'm talking about the lack of direct player to player trading in Gw2 that was the reason for the post. I'm not saying that their system is no good. What I'm saying, is that myself... and a lot of other players, want to click on another player standing next to us, select trade and trade an item that goes directly to their inventory that moment. I did it about 20 times last night in TOR while crafting my buddy some gear on the spot. Now that situation probably won't apply to GW2, but you can't tell me there will never be a time when you just want to give something to someone directly without involving mail.
I think this game will be very popular. I think there will be a ton of players... you know what comes with that? unforeseen issues. While I do appreciation your personal gaurantee of "no way that's happening"... I would really like another option from the Developer in case it does. I don't assume any of these companys WANT things to go wrong, but sometimes they do. And to have the option to just click on someone and trade wouldn't hurt. Would it?
Is it so hard to just say they should probably have a direct player to player trade option? Also... I wouldn't make gaurantee's on a game you haven't played to test for yourself.
On topic though, I have to somewhat agree that it is an odd one, however I only remeber trading (on a massive scale in other MMOs) pots and scrolls really, and sometimes mats but that was rare, I could see if the lag between mailing is not there, then its ok, but if you have to wait ( and I highly doubt that you would have to wait more than 30 secs ) I am pretty sure its not going to be 1 hours lol.
This concept is that idiotic CORPG philosophy that worked in GW. That crap is not going to fly in a mmorpg model and anyone in there right mind should know this.
Take it from the TOR fans crying for the game to release while ignoring obvious missing features will just cause the game to lose subs.
I bet that after the game launches they add face to face trading due to the demand of the players... then all these people will think it was the greatest thing ever invented and praise them for adding it.
This is just like when I was complaining to my dad... a rabib apple user that the iphone did not have drop down notification menu like android had... He yelled and me and told me that Apple knows what they're doing and it doesn't matter if they had it, he wouldn't use it and doesn't see a need to have it.
THENNNNN - A year or so later, Apple announces that they are adding a notification drop down menu.. he actually called me and expressed he excitement about the drop down menu and what a great idea it was to have it on the iPhone not even acknowledging that we ever had the initial argument ...ROFL.
What I'm taking away from this example is that you're resistant to the idea of a mail based trade system, then you're going to try it, realize it's better than face to face, love it, and not even acknowledge this initial argument.
Incorrect Sir. I'm not resistant to the idea... as a matter of fact.. if you read some of my previous post.. I have said numerous times that I think it's a good idea that should be coupled with direct player trades. You have failed to even once say that having direct player trading would be an ok idea also.
So much angst over such a simple thing. No face to face trading, sure...as long as marketplace trading system works with minimal to no lag, then it'll be fine for what it is. It's not like running to meet a friend at some pre-determined location is exactly convienient.
I would imagine the true intent of the system is to prevent some jackass from opening a trade window with you right in the middle of a Dynamic Event or just randomly anywhere in the world. That can be pretty damned annoying.
Like I said, if it works with minimal to no lag (similar to G-mail in WoW after a guild perk), but you can use it anywhere in the world, then great! If there's lag to it, like 5-60 min delay, then they'll need to address that.
Pointless arguing over something we haven't even gotten to try for ourselves.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
While I completely agree with the anti-blind fanboism sentiment, I don't see that occurring to any great extent in this thread. Most posters have been quite reasonable in listing the pros and the cons of a system we only thus far suspect to be in place.
The addition of wanted ads on the AH is undoubtedly a pro. Mailing exchange between anyone from anywhere increases mobility of all trading, but likely at the cost of immersion for many players. (And yes, you can mail from anywhere; you do not have to run back to a mailbox as you indicated.) Whether this can ultimately function exactly like traditional inter-player trades or not is simply not yet known. Some posters in the thread have suspected it will, others, like yourself, have suspected it will not. If it does not, I will happily agree and equally lament the lack of a player trade system. That would indeed suck. Until we get to play it and see for ourselves, however, I too will side with the optimists.
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
While I completely agree with the anti-blind fanboism sentiment, I don't see that occurring to any great extent in this thread. Most posters have been quite reasonable in listing the pros and the cons of a system we only thus far suspect to be in place.
The addition of wanted ads on the AH is undoubtedly a pro. Mailing exchange between anyone from anywhere increases mobility of all trading, but likely at the cost of immersion for many players. (And yes, you can mail from anywhere; you do not have to run back to a mailbox as you indicated.) Whether this can ultimately function exactly like traditional inter-player trades or not is simply not yet known. Some posters in the thread have suspected it will, others, like yourself, have suspected it will not. If it does not, I will happily agree and equally lament the lack of a player trade system. That would indeed suck. Until we get to play it and see for ourselves, however, I too will side with the optimists.
if you're looking as hard as he is you'll see it! it's everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
Cali, thanks for the pictures of GW1 and WoW... but I'm talking about the lack of direct player to player trading in Gw2 that was the reason for the post. I'm not saying that their system is no good. What I'm saying, is that myself... and a lot of other players, want to click on another player standing next to us, select trade and trade an item that goes directly to their inventory that moment. I did it about 20 times last night in TOR while crafting my buddy some gear on the spot. Now that situation probably won't apply to GW2, but you can't tell me there will never be a time when you just want to give something to someone directly without involving mail.
I think this game will be very popular. I think there will be a ton of players... you know what comes with that? unforeseen issues. While I do appreciation your personal gaurantee of "no way that's happening"... I would really like another option from the Developer in case it does. I don't assume any of these companys WANT things to go wrong, but sometimes they do. And to have the option to just click on someone and trade wouldn't hurt. Would it?
Is it so hard to just say they should probably have a direct player to player trade option? Also... I wouldn't make gaurantee's on a game you haven't played to test for yourself.
So your saying that the instant email which will take maybe takes 1 second longer to complete just doesn't cut it.
There are a couple of ways to go with this (warning: speculation incoming).
1. There is player to player trading, just not in the "traditional sense." Sorry. Besides, if you can drop items on the ground like you could in GW1, then you argument is mute. It is even faster than your so beloved trade window.
2. It is actually very easy to say, I can deal with the second longer if it allows them to focus on the other things in the game.
3. Maybe the developers were making both and realized they were wasting time building two different systems to do the same thing, and scrapped one of them. There maybe some additional bonus on the developer side that makes life easier for them. Great. For all we know the other studios will be jealous of such a feature.
4. I for one would rather not stand by you while you where making my gear. I think it is cool if I didn't have to chase you down to give you the mats to make my gear. I could be in the AH and just instantly email you the mats and you could just instantly email the armor back. You wouldn't have to wait for me and I wouldn't have to wait for you. I could browse the auction house for the nice token to give to you for the time you were taking to craft me armor. I think its a brilliant idea.
There has yet to be any proof other the speculation (coming from use in current MMO's ) to prove the system won't do the very thing you are complaining about. Cali has supplied all the facts needed to make a reasonable arguement that the system will in fact provide a reasonable alternative to the "player to player trading" you are talking about. So you jumped into this thread with a statement that was incorrect and dishonest, and you completely disregard the evidence provided to you about your concerns. For what reason, to get others to side with you.
I hate to break it to you, but you don't get everything you want. And if that bothers you enough, then exercise your right to not buy the game. Whatever honks your hooter. I for one do not play games for their player trading system. I can say for sure that I can live without the player to player trading option you so desire and I even may say that it's is substandard compared to other MMO's trading systems. I will reserve my judgement unitl I actually use it.
If you look at some of the game videos and see some pigeons fly to and from your character? That is the mobile mail system.
Haha.
*imagines tying a battle axe to a pigeon's leg and tossing it up in the air*
"Fly to xxxLeggol45xxx and return with 50 gold, pigeon! Go with speed!"
Nothing wrong with it.
It's a FANTASY game, so everything's possible... By that logic I could ask people why the fuck do you watch anime ?
By that logic Alien would be an equally good movie if suddenly the Alien put on a top hat and started dancing and Ripley jumped around like a goddamn Spiderman.
NO!
This is a very common fallacy among people who do not do fiction for a living (like I do). "Oh, it's fantasy so anything goes" Actually the very opposite is true. If you're doing a movie with fantastic elements you have to be EXTRA careful that all the other elements of the setting are 100% ultra-realistic in order not to compromise the fantastic ones. Stephen King is the master of this - his characters are super-realistic and believable and that is why he is able to sell total fantasy elements (vampires and werevolves and indian ghosts or what have you) to the widest possible public.
The more you go into fantasy, the more you have to watch for internal consistency and physical realism.
Let me put it in another way, what would happen to superheroes like Superman or Batman if you put them into an obviously fantastic setting? Meh. They are as effective as characters precisely because they operate within a realistic, everyday setting. When dealing in fantasy you have to be extremely careful to preserve this "willing suspension of disbelief" If you overdo you can slide into a farce and no one can get you out of it once you're there. It's like the invisible walls. "I kill dragons but I can't jump over this fence? KKTHNX Good bye."
Are you kidding me... are people really justifing no face-to-face trades in 2012? I knew there was a blind love for this game, but I didn't know how far it went.
So the same people bashing games like TOR for not having basic features are rewarding ANet for keeping everything "legit". Are you serious? Like only gold sellers do face-to-face trades?
So if I'm running around with a friend and I pick up an item that he could use... I have to run back to a town, find a mailbox and mail it to him? Or have him post a "wanted" notice for the item I picked up?
You people are killing me.
No, there is trading, it is handled through the mail system. Read my post like 2 seconds ago for a reason this might be a functionally superior system.
I read your post. I have seen people defend some decisions, but honestly, to not be able to criticize a game AT ALL removes the credit I had given some of you for being fair and honest.
I like a lot of games... but there's not one game that I find NO FAULTS with. Some are you are so excited about this game, you can't even say where there's something you don't like... For example, I'm ridiculously excited for Tera, but I could make you a list of things I'm worried about/didn't like.
No one can sit here and tell me they woundn't prefer the ability to trade face-to-face then through a mail system. And if you do, you're lying to yourself.
I will be trying the game, cause there's enough good to get me interested at this point, but this is a big pain in the ass negative in my opinion.
While I completely agree with the anti-blind fanboism sentiment, I don't see that occurring to any great extent in this thread. Most posters have been quite reasonable in listing the pros and the cons of a system we only thus far suspect to be in place.
The addition of wanted ads on the AH is undoubtedly a pro. Mailing exchange between anyone from anywhere increases mobility of all trading, but likely at the cost of immersion for many players. (And yes, you can mail from anywhere; you do not have to run back to a mailbox as you indicated.) Whether this can ultimately function exactly like traditional inter-player trades or not is simply not yet known. Some posters in the thread have suspected it will, others, like yourself, have suspected it will not. If it does not, I will happily agree and equally lament the lack of a player trade system. That would indeed suck. Until we get to play it and see for ourselves, however, I too will side with the optimists.
if you're looking as hard as he is you'll see it! it's everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
lol, it's not just this thread. It's in all of the gw2 threads. And you're correct, some are level-headed and can see pros and cons....others only see the good and refuse to acknowledge anything that could be seen as a bad.
And I get it, I really do. I get the excitement about the game. It has some truely great features from what I have read, and I went from having zero interest, to fully intending to pre-order.
All I'm asking is to acknowledge what could be a possible flaw. Don't act lilke everything they do is the greatest it has ever been done. Don't believe that they can't be wrong. If you do that, you cheapen the whole thing. That's all I'm saying.
lol, it's not just this thread. It's in all of the gw2 threads. And you're correct, some are level-headed and can see pros and cons....others only see the good and refuse to acknowledge anything that could be seen as a bad.
And I get it, I really do. I get the excitement about the game. It has some truely great features from what I have read, and I went from having zero interest, so fully intending to pre-order.
All I'm asking is to acknowledge what could be a possible flaw. Don't act lilke everything they do is the greatest it has ever been done. Don't believe that they can't be wrong. If you do that, you cheapen the whole thing. That's all I'm saying.
Why must we all say it when we have so many people that visit the GW2 threads to remind us on a daily basis of all the flaws in the game or to help us down from our fanboi high horse or to help explain to us how the game will really be or to announce their intentions to return to the forums after launch to read with glee all of our woeful sorrows in the game we truly believe to be the savior of the MMO genre.
I sure wish this forum was like the internet where one could have access to all the posts to provide links to all the different times the GW2 community members have said that this game will be perfect or that it will not have any flaws, or that it is the greatest game ever. Yeah that would show em. They would be able to back up their statements then. Man if there was only some way.
Cali, thanks for the pictures of GW1 and WoW... but I'm talking about the lack of direct player to player trading in Gw2 that was the reason for the post. I'm not saying that their system is no good. What I'm saying, is that myself... and a lot of other players, want to click on another player standing next to us, select trade and trade an item that goes directly to their inventory that moment. I did it about 20 times last night in TOR while crafting my buddy some gear on the spot. Now that situation probably won't apply to GW2, but you can't tell me there will never be a time when you just want to give something to someone directly without involving mail.
I think this game will be very popular. I think there will be a ton of players... you know what comes with that? unforeseen issues. While I do appreciation your personal gaurantee of "no way that's happening"... I would really like another option from the Developer in case it does. I don't assume any of these companys WANT things to go wrong, but sometimes they do. And to have the option to just click on someone and trade wouldn't hurt. Would it?
Is it so hard to just say they should probably have a direct player to player trade option? Also... I wouldn't make gaurantee's on a game you haven't played to test for yourself.
Originally posted by Praetalus
Incorrect Sir. I'm not resistant to the idea... as a matter of fact.. if you read some of my previous post.. I have said numerous times that I think it's a good idea that should be coupled with direct player trades. You have failed to even once say that having direct player trading would be an ok idea also.
For one thing, and again I'm being optimistic here (I know I shouldn't guarantee), I don't know why they wouldn't have an option to click on someone to initiate a trade when we know there's an option to click on someone to invite them to a group. And who knows if ArenaNet will surprise us. What if there's a checkbox in the trade window that says "put this in my inventory if there's room." Except for the bird and being able to do it at distance, how would that not exactly mimic MMO trading? (Yes I know I shouldn't speculate)
To address the section in orange and the 2nd quote, it hurts if there's an issue with it being confusing or redundant. I gave examples such as what if there's two trade systems and each person opens a different one at the same time, or even simply having to declare which one you're going to use. I haven't acknowledged it as a good idea because I'm sorry, I don't think it is a good idea to have two mostly similar trade systems.
To expand on that as well as address the section in green, I don't think redundancy of systems is generally built in to MMOs. One example I can think of off the top of my head is that GW2 has instant teleportation to any waypoint. They're not putting a flight master at each waypoint so that you can fly from one to the other in case they break teleportation. Unforeseen things happen, but if they break something they do a quick rollback and fix it.
That being said, in traditional MMOs, you don't have a secondary system specific to trading. But what you do have if trading is bugged/lagged out for whatever reason, then you could always mail something or put it on the auction house as a workaround. I don't see why these options are not also available in GW2. Yes, trading in GW2 is tied into the mail system, but there's also mail. You should be able to send someone something who is offline or simply without having to wait for a confirmation if it's not a trade. As Steeljanz points out, this way your friend doesn't have to wait by the crafting station with you.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Comments
This isn't about not being able to criticize a game.
This is about you completely misrepresenting or misunderstanding the system (see orange), then saying that we're defending it out of blind fanboyism.
If you understand the system as described, which as far as the information I'm presented with pretty much seems like "functionally identical to trading, except it happens at any distance, goes to your mailbox to prevent overflow problems, and also requires a bird to be present" and then want to criticize it, then be my guest.
Or, of course, if you can provide information that the system isn't as I described, then by all means please correct me.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Oh damn one feature.
On topic though, I have to somewhat agree that it is an odd one, however I only remeber trading (on a massive scale in other MMOs) pots and scrolls really, and sometimes mats but that was rare, I could see if the lag between mailing is not there, then its ok, but if you have to wait ( and I highly doubt that you would have to wait more than 30 secs ) I am pretty sure its not going to be 1 hours lol.
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
@People claiming fanboyism:
I think at this point, Anet has proven that if something is left out of the game, it was done intentionally. They're going over this game with a fine-toothed comb, that trade was left out has some meaning to them even if its blind to us. Further, I've yet to see anyone complain about trading in the game, so there's only so much of a hinderance it could be.
I have to admit, this is bugging me as well, the lack of face-to-face trade. But because of what I stated above, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until I get my hands on it and try it myself. It could all happen instantly, in which case it basically is far superior to face-to-face trading as it can happen from ANYWHERE on the map. That's awesome. If there's some lag time, that could potentially pose an issue. I guess we'll see.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I do, I think that the idea of no mailboxes and the "little bird" is quite good; however, it would be better in conjunction with face-to-face trading if the need arose. I just think it's insane that people can't say, Wow... they should add that. instead, they say, well, it must be the way to go if they're doing it...
I like free thinkers who question everything. I give credit where it's do, and I critizise when it's needed. I can't think of one mmo I have loved EVERYTHING about. Yet, there are folks around here who refuse to say one negative word about this game. That's not fair and it's not honest. How can you take someone seriously who is so one-sided?
This concept is that idiotic CORPG philosophy that worked in GW. That crap is not going to fly in a mmorpg model and anyone in there right mind should know this.
Take it from the TOR fans crying for the game to release while ignoring obvious missing features will just cause the game to lose subs.
Can you provide me with information showing that the system works as YOU described? Like I said. You are all ASSUMING that the mail system is instantaneous. We don't know that. No one does. The game hasn't been tested on a scale large enough to safely make that assumption. Let's say the game is immensely popular with tons of players... you really think there will be no issues waiting for mail at anytime? I think it safer to say that some issues may pop their heads.
So, wouldn't it be a fabulous idea to have face-to-face trading AND the little birdy mailing system? Just in case? Like I said. The new system doesn't seem like a bad idea, but I would still prefer face-to-face trading and I'm not alone.
The graphics are nice, but can't compete with a lot of current-gen MMOs.
There's no questing.
No mounts.
No open PvP.
No dedicated support class.
[Insert GW1 Class] isn't returning.
[Insert GW1 Class] is.
World isn't fully open.
Taking too long to come out, losing interest.
Gear doesn't mean enough.
Too easy to level.
Mecha in a fantasy world.
Yet more dragons.
Underwater content.
I could go on and on about the things I see people complain about with GW2. The game receives plenty of criticism, I don't know what you're talking about. As for the blind fanatics that act like the game is perfect, I could point this out about every game that has ever existed, EVER. I could even point out some to you that think FF14 was perfect just the way it was and nothing needed to change. You act like this is exclusive to GW2. Is there more excitement for GW2? Probably, but the reasons for that speak for itself.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I bet that after the game launches they add face to face trading due to the demand of the players... then all these people will think it was the greatest thing ever invented and praise them for adding it.
This is just like when I was complaining to my dad... a rabib apple user that the iphone did not have drop down notification menu like android had... He yelled and me and told me that Apple knows what they're doing and it doesn't matter if they had it, he wouldn't use it and doesn't see a need to have it.
THENNNNN - A year or so later, Apple announces that they are adding a notification drop down menu.. he actually called me and expressed he excitement about the drop down menu and what a great idea it was to have it on the iPhone not even acknowledging that we ever had the initial argument ...ROFL.
UMMMM GW1 had face to face trading O_O
The truth may be puzzling. It may take some work to grapple with. It may be counterintuitive. It may contradict deeply held prejudices. It may not be consonant with what we desperately want to be true. But our preferences do not determine what's true.
Carl Sagan-
First, it's a trade system through the mail. It's not just mail. It's a trade system through the mail. Trade systems don't make you wait an hour for it to get there. GW2 isn't going to go to all this trouble of instant teleportation, not having to wait to find a group, trivial death penalty, not having to be on the same stage of a quest, eliminating leveling grind, learning weapon skills quickly, etc, etc and then make the trade system through the mail be the one place in the game that's a pain in the ass. No way is that happening.
Secondly, here's the mail. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Stfx0Lk0qQ4#t=897s This guy is about to check his mail. Try to spot the bird. I've paused it at 15:01, 15:02, 15:03. I can't see it. edit: OH the bird comes when he gets the message when he gets mail, not when he actually checks it. Still, it's there for like a second.
Might there occassionally be a problem with the mail system? Probably, all games have problems. But if a game is designed around being able to have 100 people fight a dragon at the same time, I don't know why there would be problems with a mail based trade system, any more than there would be problems with a non-mail based trade system in terms of being able to process the transaction.
Thirdly, trading is NOT face to face in any game I know.
This is the GW1 trade window.
This is the WoW trade window.
This is the "face to face" trading that everyone is demanding?
And finally... You want a situation where players have to decide which of two trade systems they want to be able to use? Like two people are going to click confirm on a mail based trade, have it hang in the middle of it, and then actually say "let's cancel this trade and try again using the face to face system." Or one person is going to open the trade with one system and the other is going to open the other system at the same time?
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
I can as easily assure that there will be no delay in mailing the item to another person, as you can assure me there is never any lag when you do a face to face trade. Since I've been sitting in the same room with someone when we do a face to face trade and I can see the delay, you can't tell me there is never an lag in a face to face trade. Well you could but you would be making stuff up.
BTW, I do have concerns on twitchy combat system.
What I'm taking away from this example is that you're resistant to the idea of a mail based trade system, then you're going to try it, realize it's better than face to face, love it, and not even acknowledge this initial argument.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Cali, thanks for the pictures of GW1 and WoW... but I'm talking about the lack of direct player to player trading in Gw2 that was the reason for the post. I'm not saying that their system is no good. What I'm saying, is that myself... and a lot of other players, want to click on another player standing next to us, select trade and trade an item that goes directly to their inventory that moment. I did it about 20 times last night in TOR while crafting my buddy some gear on the spot. Now that situation probably won't apply to GW2, but you can't tell me there will never be a time when you just want to give something to someone directly without involving mail.
I think this game will be very popular. I think there will be a ton of players... you know what comes with that? unforeseen issues. While I do appreciation your personal gaurantee of "no way that's happening"... I would really like another option from the Developer in case it does. I don't assume any of these companys WANT things to go wrong, but sometimes they do. And to have the option to just click on someone and trade wouldn't hurt. Would it?
Is it so hard to just say they should probably have a direct player to player trade option? Also... I wouldn't make gaurantee's on a game you haven't played to test for yourself.
Incorrect Sir. I'm not resistant to the idea... as a matter of fact.. if you read some of my previous post.. I have said numerous times that I think it's a good idea that should be coupled with direct player trades. You have failed to even once say that having direct player trading would be an ok idea also.
So much angst over such a simple thing. No face to face trading, sure...as long as marketplace trading system works with minimal to no lag, then it'll be fine for what it is. It's not like running to meet a friend at some pre-determined location is exactly convienient.
I would imagine the true intent of the system is to prevent some jackass from opening a trade window with you right in the middle of a Dynamic Event or just randomly anywhere in the world. That can be pretty damned annoying.
Like I said, if it works with minimal to no lag (similar to G-mail in WoW after a guild perk), but you can use it anywhere in the world, then great! If there's lag to it, like 5-60 min delay, then they'll need to address that.
Pointless arguing over something we haven't even gotten to try for ourselves.
Nothing wrong with it.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
It's a FANTASY game, so everything's possible... By that logic I could ask people why the fuck do you watch anime ?
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
While I completely agree with the anti-blind fanboism sentiment, I don't see that occurring to any great extent in this thread. Most posters have been quite reasonable in listing the pros and the cons of a system we only thus far suspect to be in place.
The addition of wanted ads on the AH is undoubtedly a pro. Mailing exchange between anyone from anywhere increases mobility of all trading, but likely at the cost of immersion for many players. (And yes, you can mail from anywhere; you do not have to run back to a mailbox as you indicated.) Whether this can ultimately function exactly like traditional inter-player trades or not is simply not yet known. Some posters in the thread have suspected it will, others, like yourself, have suspected it will not. If it does not, I will happily agree and equally lament the lack of a player trade system. That would indeed suck. Until we get to play it and see for ourselves, however, I too will side with the optimists.
if you're looking as hard as he is you'll see it! it's everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!!!!!
So your saying that the instant email which will take maybe takes 1 second longer to complete just doesn't cut it.
There are a couple of ways to go with this (warning: speculation incoming).
1. There is player to player trading, just not in the "traditional sense." Sorry. Besides, if you can drop items on the ground like you could in GW1, then you argument is mute. It is even faster than your so beloved trade window.
2. It is actually very easy to say, I can deal with the second longer if it allows them to focus on the other things in the game.
3. Maybe the developers were making both and realized they were wasting time building two different systems to do the same thing, and scrapped one of them. There maybe some additional bonus on the developer side that makes life easier for them. Great. For all we know the other studios will be jealous of such a feature.
4. I for one would rather not stand by you while you where making my gear. I think it is cool if I didn't have to chase you down to give you the mats to make my gear. I could be in the AH and just instantly email you the mats and you could just instantly email the armor back. You wouldn't have to wait for me and I wouldn't have to wait for you. I could browse the auction house for the nice token to give to you for the time you were taking to craft me armor. I think its a brilliant idea.
There has yet to be any proof other the speculation (coming from use in current MMO's ) to prove the system won't do the very thing you are complaining about. Cali has supplied all the facts needed to make a reasonable arguement that the system will in fact provide a reasonable alternative to the "player to player trading" you are talking about. So you jumped into this thread with a statement that was incorrect and dishonest, and you completely disregard the evidence provided to you about your concerns. For what reason, to get others to side with you.
I hate to break it to you, but you don't get everything you want. And if that bothers you enough, then exercise your right to not buy the game. Whatever honks your hooter. I for one do not play games for their player trading system. I can say for sure that I can live without the player to player trading option you so desire and I even may say that it's is substandard compared to other MMO's trading systems. I will reserve my judgement unitl I actually use it.
By that logic Alien would be an equally good movie if suddenly the Alien put on a top hat and started dancing and Ripley jumped around like a goddamn Spiderman.
NO!
This is a very common fallacy among people who do not do fiction for a living (like I do). "Oh, it's fantasy so anything goes" Actually the very opposite is true. If you're doing a movie with fantastic elements you have to be EXTRA careful that all the other elements of the setting are 100% ultra-realistic in order not to compromise the fantastic ones. Stephen King is the master of this - his characters are super-realistic and believable and that is why he is able to sell total fantasy elements (vampires and werevolves and indian ghosts or what have you) to the widest possible public.
The more you go into fantasy, the more you have to watch for internal consistency and physical realism.
Let me put it in another way, what would happen to superheroes like Superman or Batman if you put them into an obviously fantastic setting? Meh. They are as effective as characters precisely because they operate within a realistic, everyday setting. When dealing in fantasy you have to be extremely careful to preserve this "willing suspension of disbelief" If you overdo you can slide into a farce and no one can get you out of it once you're there. It's like the invisible walls. "I kill dragons but I can't jump over this fence? KKTHNX Good bye."
lol, it's not just this thread. It's in all of the gw2 threads. And you're correct, some are level-headed and can see pros and cons....others only see the good and refuse to acknowledge anything that could be seen as a bad.
And I get it, I really do. I get the excitement about the game. It has some truely great features from what I have read, and I went from having zero interest, to fully intending to pre-order.
All I'm asking is to acknowledge what could be a possible flaw. Don't act lilke everything they do is the greatest it has ever been done. Don't believe that they can't be wrong. If you do that, you cheapen the whole thing. That's all I'm saying.
see? told you man, it's everyhwere, all the time. all the guild wars 2 fans.
Why must we all say it when we have so many people that visit the GW2 threads to remind us on a daily basis of all the flaws in the game or to help us down from our fanboi high horse or to help explain to us how the game will really be or to announce their intentions to return to the forums after launch to read with glee all of our woeful sorrows in the game we truly believe to be the savior of the MMO genre.
I sure wish this forum was like the internet where one could have access to all the posts to provide links to all the different times the GW2 community members have said that this game will be perfect or that it will not have any flaws, or that it is the greatest game ever. Yeah that would show em. They would be able to back up their statements then. Man if there was only some way.
/sarcasm
For one thing, and again I'm being optimistic here (I know I shouldn't guarantee), I don't know why they wouldn't have an option to click on someone to initiate a trade when we know there's an option to click on someone to invite them to a group. And who knows if ArenaNet will surprise us. What if there's a checkbox in the trade window that says "put this in my inventory if there's room." Except for the bird and being able to do it at distance, how would that not exactly mimic MMO trading? (Yes I know I shouldn't speculate)
To address the section in orange and the 2nd quote, it hurts if there's an issue with it being confusing or redundant. I gave examples such as what if there's two trade systems and each person opens a different one at the same time, or even simply having to declare which one you're going to use. I haven't acknowledged it as a good idea because I'm sorry, I don't think it is a good idea to have two mostly similar trade systems.
To expand on that as well as address the section in green, I don't think redundancy of systems is generally built in to MMOs. One example I can think of off the top of my head is that GW2 has instant teleportation to any waypoint. They're not putting a flight master at each waypoint so that you can fly from one to the other in case they break teleportation. Unforeseen things happen, but if they break something they do a quick rollback and fix it.
That being said, in traditional MMOs, you don't have a secondary system specific to trading. But what you do have if trading is bugged/lagged out for whatever reason, then you could always mail something or put it on the auction house as a workaround. I don't see why these options are not also available in GW2. Yes, trading in GW2 is tied into the mail system, but there's also mail. You should be able to send someone something who is offline or simply without having to wait for a confirmation if it's not a trade. As Steeljanz points out, this way your friend doesn't have to wait by the crafting station with you.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007