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Why all the hate?
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Oh a history filled with me not insulting people, not getting caught up in the polarization, and being open minded about just about every game, including GW2? As well as not going out of my way to stir posters up (yes I'm looking at you on that one). Please give it a rest.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Simple people love paying monthly that way they will continue to play the game regardless of whether they like the game or not.
Also how many people have actually tried the beta, I know it is only a few so no one that did not try the beta cannot accurately guage how good it is.
People are also very impatient so waiting for the game without at least a decent amount of news releases makes angry people angry.
I guess it wouldn't be the first time we disagreed on something. I know I can't change your opinion, but IMO, if you find this to be a perfect example of a reason to dislike a fanbase then the arguement is weak at best and saying it's frowned upon by the staff of this site is also a bit of a stretch. You are correct, the posts don't always have to be hate filled, but their must be a element of actual criticism or a degrading comment, etc.
Otherwise someone couldn't say, I think the Voice over work in SWTOR is better than the voice of work in GW2.
When we can pick any little reason/example to dislike a player base, then we are too sensitive and all logical discussions are impossible. Unfortuantely we (all of us) group to many people into the trolling category when it comes to a percieved negative comment about our game of choice. I am sad to see that you find it as an excellent example.
I never said I don't like a fanbase.. I just don't like viral marketing such as shown in his example.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's because nobody can reason on this forum. You're either a troll or a fanboy.
Can't I just not like a game, for my own reasons that may or may not make sense to you?
Absolutely. However, you probably shouldn't call other people fanboy's and then not expect to be called one yourself. Not calling you one but it's best to keep out of the name calling if it offends you when you are being called one.
Since the topic of the post was about that, maybe you shouldn't aimlessly respond to a post if you are not participating in the full context of the post. His post had nothing to do with marketing, his post was a supposed example of a reason the GW2 fanbase is disliked. You supported him in his post for disliking a fanbase.
I said his post was an example of something not to like, not a reason to bash an entire fanbase.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
A GW2 fan, not fans. And I don't care about cash shops in any game, people do, and I look for well reasoned arguments to back up if and when others don't seem to get it.
Since when was this thread about Distopia? Care to move on now, or do you want to continue to discuss me?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Ok yeah I hate every person who plays GW2, that makes sense. You just dont get it. Nobody hates Guild Wars 2 the game.
What I hate is how its getting hyped to critical levels and I know these forums are just going to be like SWTOR all over again with login charts, NCSoft stock analysis, Reviews that say the same pros/cons as every other review, Why GW2 is better than TOR.
And I know there's going to be so many people who were all aboard the bandwagon who jump ship REAL QUICK
And as far as examples, so I need to prove what I read with my own eyes every day?
99% of the posts on these boards have no proof, but you want me to comb through all the threads I've skimmed through to find an example of a GW2 fan acting innapropriately?
How about just actually reading what people post instead of seeing the words GW2, revolutionize, and MMO and saying
"yeah I agree with that guy" *next thread*
and @ Fony I listen to, you know, music that is actually good
should have used this
Don't you love it when very act of claiming that someone's argument is a strawman tactic is, in itself, a strawman tactic?
Please stay on topic and do not flame other posters.
Might be best to close the thread.
Yeah I don't see this thread going anywhere really.
nowhere fast
I actually found a person who could be qualified as a "hater" of GW2 that spoke very favorable of SWTOR and had posted almost no critique of SWTOR whatsoever, judging by their post history. Person being in this very thread, but I am unsure whether or not it is okay to call out names.
It does show me that it was not simply my imagination that some SWTOR-fans are coming to hate on GW2. Although I do expect them to be a minority of all SWTOR fans. Whether or not it is due to some sort of urge for revenge due to all peceived hate in the SWTOR-forums, I can only speculate about.
The problem with this type of thing is taste, does an opinion that GW2 isn't offering what a person wants make them a hater as an example? Does little critque of TOR mean they're a fanboi of that game? People tend to brush each other into these two extremes based on little.
You have to consider expectations as well, I had little to complain about with TOR as an example because it was basically what i thought it would be. I knew I wouldn't be in for the long haul if my guild wasn't, they weren't so I am not.
With GW2 you have to keep in mind A-net is promising a lot, they're more or less saying they will reinvent the genre, and add new life to it. That's a steep climb and many will automatically see this as a reason to put them through the ringer on everything they say, doesn't make them haters though, nothing wrong with being skeptical.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If a person sends a lot of praise towards a game and simultaneously avoids talking about the flaws of that game, then yes it would make sense to label a such person as a "fanboy". Conversely, if a person is being very negative about a game and avoids talking about the strengths, then one can label a such person as a "hater".
As for what Arenanet promises, I would have to read up on it, but if they indeed promise that they would "reinvent the genre and add new life to it" and that's not something only a forum poster or blogger said, I would consider such statements to be extravagant formulations which Arenanet shouldn't use.
"Reinventing" genre requires a huge amount of variation compared to what is the current norm of MMORPGs; the changes they've presented are substantial, but may be not enough to live up to a reinvention statement.
"Add new life", implies that the current MMORPGs are so inferior that they are practically dead in comparison.
Yeah that's the common reasoning, I might just be an odd-man-out on the topic of fanbois and haters, I hate the usage regardless of reasoning, so I'll bow out of that discussion.
You'll have to look at their wording to see where that perception has come from (reinvention, new life). There's a reason fans and non-fans have been using those words, it's all in how A-net approaches the topic of their innovations.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
You have to realize that when Anet made their manifesto video last year, they set the tone for this hate machine we see in force today. Anet took the stance of "everybody else is doing it wrong" and the internet bandwagon was filled to capacity almost overnight.
It was a free pass for every hater to jump in and bash anything that wasn't "innovative". Now the backlash leaves people asking "why the hate?" You tell me, Anet.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
In a nutshell this^^, comments like this aren't going to hep much either:
"It is amazing how the fact that we are dedicated to make the best PC game possible is completely ignored and unfounded Angst is running rampant."-Martin Kerstein
Hell Bioware was kicked in the face for cracking jokes here and there in reference to common concerns.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I don't see this as cracking a joke. This was a community manager making post #194 in a thread that was exploding with posters that refused to recognize that making a PC game is their first priority. You would make a more valid point if you use his post where he smarts off to a guy about not wanting to sound PR.
IMO people don't dislike SWTOR because of the community managers. Nor will they avoid GW2 because of Martin's reponses. I think people dislike SWTOR because of the direction they took with their game. For the most part I don't get the dislike because they did exactly what they said they were going to do. IMO the following are the two biggest reasons why people dislike SWTOR.
1. They followed they WOW formula and they stated that others where dumb if they didn't follow it. The biggest problem with this is if you are going to follow they WOW formula, it has to be better than WOW in every way. Build quality, PVP, UI, content, etc., it has to as good or better otherwise it won't compete. Most MMO fans have seen this entirely too much lately and it hasn't worked for one of the WOW clones. Simply copying WOW and putting it in the Star Wars universe is not good enough and it lacks creativity (this was a suprise coming from Bioware.) It is perfectly fine to make a WOW clone but it better be at least as good. Calling people dumb for not following it kinda opens you up for a virtual kick in the groin.
2. This is the reason why I didn't get SWTOR. I was on the fence because I am a huge Star Wars nerd but after the following two comments from MMORPG's Pax East panel, it was easy to make my decision.
Opening question: Where do you see online games going in the next 10 years?
Colin Johanson - GW2
I would say that the trend we see in the games that have come out recently is we're going less and less from linear content to more and more into open worlds and MMOs being a world more than anything else. I think each developer in his own right is making worlds right now and a gamespace for you to play in. I think you're going to see more content built towards that, where you're just out exploring and enjoying the world. I think worlds as a development tool is what you're going to see more of in the next 10 years.
James Ohlen -- SWTOR
Well, I'm going to have to take a contrary opinion to [Colin]. I have been with BioWare for a long time, so I'm kind of a little bit biased on the story end. I really do believe though that MMORPGs are RPGs at heart. If you look at MMORPGs as roleplaying games over the years, they have been more and more focused on story. And story is being made better and more immersive and more cinematic. You have seen a lot of improvements in RPGs. In MMORPGs, you haven't been seeing as many improvements, but I think you are in the next decade, or at least, I hope we are because that's the kind of game I want to play, not because I'm working on Star Wars: The Old Republic right now and that's what it's all about. I hope that's what we do see in 10 years, and it's probably going to happen.
As a MMO player, I agree with Colin. James spelled out almost a year ago exactly what SWTOR would focus on. I do enjoy story but I don't play an MMO for story and I don't think most of the MMO crowd does. Bioware's focus was to lean heavily on a single player experience. GW2 focus will be on the world and about what happens in it. We don't know yet if it will work out but it sounds a ton more fun then cinematics.
True story.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I had never seen this exchange before... Now I know I am back the right team and that SWTOR needs to just go away (and Bioware to get the fuck out of the MMORPG space).
I agree with Colin as both an MMO player and a RPG player. Mr Ohlen has a very different idea of what makes up a RPG then most RPG players I know and play with. The success of SWTOR proves he isn't actually wrong about it, but there are definitely a lot of people with different expectations out there.