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My dilemma...why I question if I'm still a "gamer"
Alasti
Member UncommonPosts: 287
I am 39 years old and have been playing MMO's since the days of Ultima Online, Everquest 1, and Asheron's Call (3 of my top 5 all time favorite games...MMO or otherwise). Anyway...
I just cant seem to "get into" mmo's any more and I hate it! I mean I really hate that I can't immerse myself into MMO's like I once did. I have played almost all of the "popular" mmo's: EQ1, EQ2, UO, Vanguard, DAoC, WoW, etc. I have tried playing the new games (Rift, etc.) as well as re-living the old ones (AC, Everquest, Vanguard, etc.) and I just don't have that incessant "pull" to keep playing. Every game is the exact same in that there is somewhat of a grind doing traditional quests or killing creatures for experience. I am sick of doing that...I mean I have killed like 1,000,000,000,000 wolves/skeletons accross more worlds than I can even remember. When will someone create something completely new? Something different? Something completely outside the box we all have become accustomed to? I mean to be honest, I don't have ANY idea what I'm even saying because what I am asking for does not exist yet.... (as far as I know).
Anyway....I am aware this is a rant, and am not sure even why I am writing this, but I do know that it saddens me that there isn't something out there that will pull me in like the games of old used to when they were new and I wasn't burnt out on killing ogres and zombies.
Comments
your not alone, honestly it's been crazy hard to get into any MMO as of late. thats why im looking for games that have displayed innovation (not just claimed they are innovative) look into some of the 2012 front runners, you may find something there that interests you.
Personally, and i've said it alot. im interested in TSW because its changing from the standard style abit.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I think the problem really is that MMO's now mostly cater to a broader audience. It's all about how many subscribers you can get and the easiest way to accomplish that is to make it aooeak a bigger audience. And the easiest way to do that is to "dumb" down the game and that puts a lot of more "hardcore" players without a game to play. Games which have focused more on old school players have not been nearly as successful. I know that Vanguard was created to hae an old school EQ feel to it but the game was so buggy that it never really found much popularity. A lot of the games that were more challengeing saw how successful a game like World of Warcraft is and nerfed the game to appeal to us.
It's hard tos ay whether we'll see a game come along that isn't so dumbed down but I don't think it's a matter of you not being a gamer anymore but rather the direction MMOs have headed.
I'm not really into current games anymore either... I've been playing minecraft more than anything else. If someone were to make a minecraft type MMO with modern graphics, that would the coolest thing ever.
I want a sandbox MMO that's actually a sandbox. Not an MMO with no content where you can freely kill other players. That's not my definition of sandbox.
I'm just waiting for that next game to come around where I can saunter off into the wilderness and come back hours/days later with animal loot to sell, like a hunter. It's what I did in the old days of SWG and I long to be able to do it again.
In the meantime I play the same style games with levels and quests. It's not nearly as fun. Though I am having playing SWTOR with family members, it's not the game in where I can lose myself.
You're not becoming immersed in MMO worlds anymore because the MMO's that have been designed don't have worlds. They have a series of quest areas that you run around in, like a postman with a longsword, back and fore, kill X, collect Y, return to Z. Sparkly sound effect. Level up! Proceed to next phase. Exploration is a Mario-esque hunt for a secret object. Dungeons are closed off instanced areas, like bonus levels in a Tomb Raider game.
MMO's aren't what they used to be, things have moved so far away from the original design of EverQuest that they can barely be classed under the same genre. It's sad really, original EverQuest was incredible and gave me hope for the future, when a game like that could have realistic graphics and sound effects, more massive worlds to explore, darker, more creepier dungeons. But instead we got MMO's for Kids.
Plenty of kids played EQ back then. Hell i was so young when i started playing EQ and UO. You can delude yourself all you like but we all are kids in one way or another...or we wouldn't be playing video games or talkign about them so much on dailly basis. And honestly that is what keeps me young.
Yeah, it's not you, it's just been a long time since something truly original came out. In my opinion EVE was the last innovative game that was made and that was back in 2003. Something horrible must've happened in 2004 to kill all creativity for almost a decade. If only I knew what that was...
i kinda agree though, we did get alot of MMO's based around spoon feeding the gamer. this is why our Genre is consitered Dumb by most reviewers. alot of the popular games you can be slow and a complete imbicile but still able to play the game at a equal pace to somone who has a brain.
Thats another reason why i like TSW, the more i read about it the less spoon fed it sounds. the only part that even remotely sounds spoon fed is the premade decks for people who cant figure out how to make their own. but i can garentee that the player made decks are gonna mop the floor with them.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I think that everybody will reach that point eventually. It's mostly because you've experienced all the standards and now know what you want from a game. In my opinion, there's really only two options left when you reach this point in gaming: pursue it or give up. You can either attempt to learn one of the various programming languages or just give up and hope that somebody will eventually make your desired game. There's really nothing wrong with waiting and learning is easier said than done, but it's worth a shot. You've played the games and have developed a passion for the genre. Isn't it about time to try your hand at creating something?
Anyway, dramatic nonsense aside, it's perfectly normal to get burned out. Something new will come around and spark your interest eventually, but it's probably a good idea to try something else until then.
Take a break.
Maybe you have, so this comment isn't appropriate to you, but I've played MMOGs as long (or almost, maybe) as you have, and one of the things I've found is that a break - once over 6 months for me - brings back a refreshed enthusiasm for MMOG gaming. Sometimes I change the game, sometimes I don't. I'm taking a break from playing them right now.
I don't think it will ever be possible for another MMOG to feel like EQ did for me when I first started out. I am a seasoned MMO gamer, and play with the eyes of someone that sees the "bones" of all of them more than I'd like, sometimes. I'm sure game developers have this problem to an extreme. I don't expect to enjoy the games in the same way - but that doesn't mean I can't take just as much pleasure from playing them from a different perspective.
Even if you are done with the genre though - that's not a bad thing, in and of itself. Maybe it is time for you to move on to something different, find some other way to spend your leisure time. There seems to be this kind of "forever" concept tied to MMOGs, like one game should be thrilling for you foerever or it fails, or that MMOG gaming should be a lifetime thing. No other form of entertainment has that expectancy, and I'm not sure why MMOGs have it either. (Possibly it's because MMOG universes are meant to be continually ongoing.)
Anyway, take a serious break. Maybe get into reading for awhile? Take the time to complete some of those to-do's you've not done?
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
This is actually the absolute best time to take a break. alot of new MMO's are coming out, and we will be hearing a TON of launch horror stories. (don't argue it, facts a fact, MMORPG's dont launch well) so when you start to get back all the kinks will be worked out and you will have some interesting games to choose from.
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
I agree, playing an MMORPG in beta, or at launch, tends to be less than the best experience. (That being said, I wouldn't delay purchasing a game I was really interested in pre-release, I just wouldn't expect the first couple of months to be the best it can be, and it may take longer than that to mature.)
Have played: Everquest, Asheron's Call, Horizons, Everquest2, World of Warcraft, Lord of the Rings Online, Warhammer, Age of Conan, Darkfall
Some really good posts^
Another alternative is spend that pent up angst on researching how games are made? That's kinda as rewarding as much as playing an awesome game?
Eg check out this trend with Minecraft "clones"/inspirations:
Minecraft
Terraria
Cube World
Junk Jack
Brick Force... minicraft...& tons of clones (esp. on iOS)...
I've omitted a lot of clones, but it's interesting to see trends like this that might percolate into mmorgps?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Exactly what i've decided to do. I see the indie devs about and i think "ok, just what qualifies them to even try making an MMO? What's on their CV?". The answer is usually not alot and certainly nothing to put me in the shade. When i see the models, the textures, the animations, the GUI, the piss poor coding, i always ask "why didn't they do xyz?"
Answer is they can't. 9/10 they seem to be people who learnt C++ at college and that's it. You see this when all patches and updates are coding ones, rather than anything tangible. Coders usually have a very narrowly focussed skillset, you rarely get a creative programmer, you cannot have that mindset to be a good one, it's like being an accountant.
So, from now i'll be learning a new script language and working with a new engine. I have spent 2 years not doing alot and trying half-assed games, in that time i could have created something half-decent, so i'm going to put it to the test
This is very offensive. Great coders are creative. Just because some people are dumb code monkeys doesn't make the rest of us non creative.
Code Monkeys was a great show.
Still, I cant say if its just the big companies that lack creative employees, or if its the publishers stifling creativity for safely. Maybe a combination of both. It just seems to me like its largely only indy developers that really come up with the good ideas these days. The unfortunate part is they often lack the experience, and almost always lack the revenue to make those good ideas happen. When they do, a big company company comes along and buys them up.
Its sad really.
Big companies cannot allow a new player to come in an steal their market share. Greedy capitalist pigs. I don't expect them to make great games, they are for profit, but I do expect them not to fuck with people who do make great games or steal the great ideas only after an indie dev risks their livelyhood to make a new game and prove the mechanics are popular.
Find a half decent programmer and tell me what else he can do (not that he needs to)...or if that's you, explain what other skills are attached to that? I have never met or heard of a programmer who can do ANYTHING else other than program, they cannot think outside of that world, you need to be focussed on coding.
There is a reason behind it and it's because you cannot be creative writing code, how can you, you can't even see what it is you're doing unless you compile it every 5 minutes. You can think of more efficient ways of doing things, smarter ways of doing things, new ways of doing things, but your main job is to make functional code. To do any more than that, you would need two heads.
So it's not offsensive, it's just the nature of the game. It takes a certain type of person to excel at programming, just like accountancy. I hit a limit on my own programming ability, as i enjoy designing things more, visually seeing the fruits of my efforts as i go and you can't be a master at both.
But what happens when, as most indies do, the lead of the project is a programmer, what then? Concentration goes full speed on making the systems of the game work, but it ends up looking crap, behind schedule, poorly advertised, poorly managed, no plan, poor customer feedback, visually unappealing. But that's how they roll.
EIther you've never known any actual programmers, of you've only met crappy ones.
I've known plenty of people who were good artists, idea people, musicians, in addition to being good programmers.
To believe such people dont exist is just narrow-minded and stupid.
Not the ones who make MMOs clearly.
Becoming adept at C++, if you can be a social person with that, then i take my hat off to you as you are a better person than me.
Raph Koster? I am pretty sure he is a programmer?
Do you know why indie MMOs have bad art? Because money. Bad advertising? Because money. Schedule? Money. Not that money helps AAA MMOs THAT much in a lot of cases. I am looking at you SWTOR. Poorly managed? You mean they haven't got 1000000 guys in the business department like EA? Well no shit sherlock.
It has nothing to do with programming and everything to do with taking on huge projects as an indie team with only a few members.
Hi, Im 37 yrs old and felt like you did. For me what brought me back is sandbox games. Of course your going to be bored playing themeparks of today.
Playing Mortal Online right now and been playing basically since it released.
Exactly what i've decided to do. I see the indie devs about and i think "ok, just what qualifies them to even try making an MMO? What's on their CV?". The answer is usually not alot and certainly nothing to put me in the shade. When i see the models, the textures, the animations, the GUI, the piss poor coding, i always ask "why didn't they do xyz?"
Answer is they can't. 9/10 they seem to be people who learnt C++ at college and that's it. You see this when all patches and updates are coding ones, rather than anything tangible. Coders usually have a very narrowly focussed skillset, you rarely get a creative programmer, you cannot have that mindset to be a good one, it's like being an accountant.
So, from now i'll be learning a new script language and working with a new engine. I have spent 2 years not doing alot and trying half-assed games, in that time i could have created something half-decent, so i'm going to put it to the test
This is very offensive. Great coders are creative. Just because some people are dumb code monkeys doesn't make the rest of us non creative.
Find a half decent programmer and tell me what else he can do (not that he needs to)...or if that's you, explain what other skills are attached to that? I have never met or heard of a programmer who can do ANYTHING else other than program, they cannot think outside of that world, you need to be focussed on coding.
There is a reason behind it and it's because you cannot be creative writing code, how can you, you can't even see what it is you're doing unless you compile it every 5 minutes. You can think of more efficient ways of doing things, smarter ways of doing things, new ways of doing things, but your main job is to make functional code. To do any more than that, you would need two heads.
So it's not offsensive, it's just the nature of the game. It takes a certain type of person to excel at programming, just like accountancy. I hit a limit on my own programming ability, as i enjoy designing things more, visually seeing the fruits of my efforts as i go and you can't be a master at both.
But what happens when, as most indies do, the lead of the project is a programmer, what then? Concentration goes full speed on making the systems of the game work, but it ends up looking crap, behind schedule, poorly advertised, poorly managed, no plan, poor customer feedback, visually unappealing. But that's how they roll.
EIther you've never known any actual programmers, of you've only met crappy ones.
I've known plenty of people who were good artists, idea people, musicians, in addition to being good programmers.
To believe such people dont exist is just narrow-minded and stupid.
Raph Koster? I am pretty sure he is a programmer?
Do you know why indie MMOs have bad art? Because money. Bad advertising? Because money. Schedule? Money. Not that money helps AAA MMOs THAT much in a lot of cases. I am looking at you SWTOR. Poorly managed? You mean they haven't got 1000000 guys in the business department like EA? Well no shit sherlock.
It has nothing to do with programming and everything to do with taking on huge projects as an indie team with only a few members.
There is lies part of my point about project management. They should know their capabilities and their goals from the beginning, it should be roadmapped and they should know what it is they will be making. If they do know, why bother making something so poorly and if they don't, then they shouldn't take the risk.
Which is my point, are programmers good at formulating business models? making financial forecasts? dictating the artflow of the game? Designing a good UI?..
..Perhaps 'no' to most of these. It's a case of knowing your limits and my point was, all of these indie MMOs have a programmer managing the project...and i couldn't think of anyone worse managing a production schedule.
If I were you, I would be hoping it's not raining. I know quite a few programmers that are artist and musicians in thier spare time.
That is an indie issue and not a programming issue. It has nothing to do with the nature of programmers.