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Guys i think you realy need to change your mind set about T/H/D trinity.
Classicstar
Member UncommonPosts: 2,697
in Guild Wars 2
It realy seems you getting nowhere even trying to be a TANK-HEALER or DPS.
If we believe this guy it will be imposible.
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Comments
I would love to see them add things to dungeon JUST to screw over those who try to run trinity groups. I mean i still have friends that even after they have read so much about GW2 say "well yeah but you will still need someone who heals later on"
and i just facepalm
TBH that video seemed like two guys talking out their a$$ over posts they read... its nothing new other than insulting two classes way of tanking in GW2, as in taking threat to let the other heal up and stuff. We have known all this about trinity for a while.
You know, this topic is very interesting. If you think about it the trinity is nothing more than a product of enemy AI in MMO's. If you think about it a tank in pvp is nothing more than a character with lots of HP, which is much less than what a tank does in pve. A healer, I think, is only used in pvp because there are ONLY certain classes that can heal. So if everyone could heal then there is no need for a dedicated healer, it would become more of a support role if any.
I think it all ends up in how Anet defined their classes and how their AI will behave which will determine the success of a trinity group in pve.
Why bother? The trinity wont work in dungeons, you cant take enough damage or heal enough so they will wipe anyways.
And that is storymode, exploration mode wont have room for misstakes at all.
Tanking, on the other hand... That will never work, and without a tank, having a healer carries much less meaning.
"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." -Dr. Seuss
That's what ultimately can break trinity teams down. If Anet makes the small tweak of getting rid of the "aggro" concept it all falls appart.
I haven't watched that many videos and I'm curious how it will work in a group without a tank.
In any mmorpg the tank gets aggro and the creature focusses on him while he gets healed.
How does a GW2 creature decide who to attack (aggro)?
What is the dynamic of a group versus creature regarding aggro? Does the creature attack everybody and people need to dodge? Can you get aggro by a certain attack? Do you take turns getting aggro? Do creatures do more ranged attack you can dodge more easily? etc.
One player that casts heals on command could help a little yes, but calling that "dedicated" is just wrong. heals will be few and rather weak.
What I worry about is that classes that are good at buffing and debuffing will become the next "healer". Meaning that people will feel that certain classes will be required in order to do harder level content.
I want a game where it doesn't matter what class you play, as long as you work together you can run the content.
I think Anet tried to get rid of it as much as possible. But lets be realistic here, aggro is a solution to the fact that AI in games is no advance enough. aggro can only realistically go away when, AIs are smart enough, till then aggro in some form will exist.
Thankfully, you cannot tank or spend your time "healing". I now for sure, if I am in a group with something that think they can tank or heal, I am gonna kick them off my group.
By aggro I mean more of actually affecting it by using a specific aggro skill. It should be more by proximity, health, armor, ect...
bah never mind found it
guild wars 2 is designed to be that way. Will there be people that try and "force" certain things, the answer is yes, but you should you probably find a new group, that's usually a bad sign.
It will be impossible, but not for any of the reasons they stated. NPC mob AI doesn't function as the typical " threat " meter that continually builds up. The simplistic way to describe them is having ADD. Also there really is no way to keep a tanking character healed as the enemies all do way to much damage.
Versatile builds played by adaptable players who know their professions and are comfortable switching roles on the fly as the situation demands are the key to GW2 Dungeons.
That's the most important thing to take away from all this.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Personally, I enjoy the traditional T/H/D trinity for the variety of play styles it offers in most MMOs. In WoW, I have all three types of characters and play each one fairly regularly depending on what's happening with my guild or what I'm in the mood to do on a particular night.
With GW2's proposed system it seems like the group content is really just every man for himself which goes against the original fundamentals of our beloved genre.
Hopefully I'm wrong
I believe that GW2 will be more about CC, interupts and buffing/debuffing in regards to dungeon's than T/H/D standard.
I can see speccing alot of classes like the thief, warrior, guardian for CC. Their job is not to tank but to snare, dodge, stun, doge, knockdown get out of the way.......etc.
The 2handed hammer Warrior for instance will be amazing at keeping Npc's interupted and immobilized.
Just imagine playing a elementalist and realizing that the party need's health so you switch to water till everyone has recovered...........then the mob aggro's onto you so you switch to earth to CC and give yourself better defense..........then the engineer draws aggro so you switch to fire to put out dps. That would be one pull.
of course they will lets face it MMORPG players are some of the most controlling players out there, i have never seen a community so dedicated to making others play how THEY want them to play.
thats why i stick to playing with my guild, too many times in too many games I have to give a resume in order to join a group. and too many times being denied because i only 32 points into X spec instead of 33.
I don't think teamwork will go out the window. If people play "every man for himself" and expect to steamroll through content, I feel they will be sorely mistaken.
There will still be tactics involved and I feel players "roles" will evolve as well. It's just nobody will be locked into any one type of role. You will still need to communicate as to who will do things as DPS, CC, Buffing/Debuffing, etc. Obviously some classes will wind up being better at some things than others. That doesn't mean that is the ONLY role a class can fulfill. And being able to switch your role or tactics on the fly will add a whole new level of gameplay.
It won't be the holy trinity and it won't be every man for himself, it will be it's own beast and only time will tell what it turns out to be.
I don't have a problem with the holy trinity, it's just that there are so many games out there that use it already that I want a game that does something different. Which is what Guild Wars 2 is all about.
Proximity is a big factor, but there is also incoming damage and target preference, which means they may choose a target because they are furthest away, because their profession or for some other unknown factor. What it comes down to is playing odds. You can have a pretty good idea of what a mob will do under a given circumstance, but you can't count on it and you can't taunt them back on course. You just need to react by dodging, CCing or focus firing.
This is the kind of thing that made GW1's combat exciting. Mobs were somewhat unpredictable and you needed to be paying attention to what they were doing, otherwise that monster tangling with your warrior in front of you, is suddenly behind you chasing your monk hither and yon.
The reality is that no profession will be able to spec to the point that they alone can keep another player on their feet if that other player is taking all of the incoming damage. Additionally, no profession will be able to spec to the point that they are able to absorb all of the incoming damage, even with the support of healing specced player, and they will never be able to guarantee that mobs won't run loose even after getting their initial attention.
The mechanics of combat and the enemy AI makes the trinity impossible.
I'd bet on a group of five Thieves who know their profession and work as a team, over ANY group set up as a trinity. Trinity groups are born to fail and they will.
Rejoice!
Its all about preventing to take damage while still doing damage.... I just hope that the trinnity doesn't get replaced by some forms of kiting, as i really disliked Kiting in other games.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Holy Trinity type mmo's dungeons are tank and spank, while GW2 dungeons are learn and adapt. Instead of relying on the healing to carry people through, everyone has to carry their own wait.
I prefer the combat of D2 or GW2 in this case over traditional MMO combat anyday.
D2 is still alive and kicking without the need of dedicated healers.
Exactly, we've gone over this I don't know how many times.
You can't have the trinity in GW2 because you can't control aggro. No aggro control...no trinity combat.
Trinity combat is not something that "just happens" naturally in any game. The game has to be specifically designed for it to work.
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