Look. Objecting to this is stupid reactionism and only helps the hackers. Let me re-explain what I bet dozens of people above me in this topic have said...
We're not talking about scanning your whole hard drive and sending the results back to Blizzard. We're not even talking about sending your current process list back to Blizzard. The game will recognize certain kinds of hacks running simultaneously with it and shut itself down when it spots them. Maybe, MAYBE it might also tell Blizzard "hey, I shut down due to hacks, maybe ban this guy's account". Doesn't that sound reasonable? Somebody tell me what's wrong with that. And while you do, bear in mind that dozens of other games have already been doing that.
Asking for specific technical data one what the scanner does would only help the hackers bypass it. No scan is completely proof against a determined hacker, and telling them how it works would precipitate a new wave of hacking in less than a week. I'd bet money on that as a fact.
Here's something to consider. Has everyone read the news about EQ2 recently? How they had 20% inflation in 24 hours? Think what that's like for the other EQ players. Imagine that happening to your WoW account. "We at Blizzard are sorry to announce that due to player privacy movements we were unable to prevent a hacker from counterfeiting gold pieces for three straight months, resulting in 200% inflation. To compensate for the devaluation of our in-game currency we're doubling the price of everything in the game." You need a hack scanner the same way you need the police, people. Get over it, don't wreck this because of your indignity.
P.S: If you really have a good counter-argument as requested in my second paragraph, you might PM me. I doubt I'll look at this topic again.
----------Sig---------- Take a minute to think - have you ever sounded JUST like this? Be grateful you weren't on voicechat at the time ;] http://wowseriousbusiness.ytmnd.com/
Wepps you still here!?! i thought you said "i just don't care" about this issue like at page 3 or 4.
*scratches head
Anyway the credit card thing was meant to illustrate you must trust companies somewhat by giving them your credit card. I mean you just don't hand your credit number to any yahoo on the street. Now that i think of it though it is a rather poor analogy.
This issue seems to be dead or dieing the various forums i visit as more is known about the subject not just rumors. I think people would be sueing microsoft with there ability to scan you operating system to determine whether it was a legal copy or not. Who knows maybe they are to many lawsuits to get them all straight. I dont think much people are paying attention and a lawsuit would seem frivolous to me. Not to say they wouldn't win... U.S. law allows people to get money for spilling coffee on themselves after all.
----I seem to remember posted somewhere you can run virtualmachine (i think thats what it was called) if your real paranoid about blizzard scanning. Just run wow in the virtual machine program and it will only have access to whatever is running in the virtual computer.
Originally posted by gmantis Wepps you still here!?! i thought you said "i just don't care" about this issue like at page 3 or 4.
But I do care about the issue!
I just don't care what happens to Blizzard lol.
Those who support anarchy, though I do not, remember a time in our history as Americans when we basically didn't care if somebody was doing something illegal.
People generally kept to themselves. Even our forefathers who were the ones responsible for the beginnings of dissent that led to our revolution against Britain were smugglers.
I like to think of myself as open-minded when it comes to these things.
But, when a criminal starts to interfere with ME, well then that's a different story. In this day and age they are much more sophisticated, and SOMETIMES they take the form of even a computer game design company. Identifying who is doing what to whom has become a real effort, and even more of an effort needs to be taken to define where the line is that you cannot cross, whether or not you take the Internet seriously.
That's what this is all about. It will define the future of gaming, and where a company can go and where they can't in the Terms of Service.
This post is dying. Let it die. If it's dying elsewhere, fine too.
But what occurs outside the forums is what takes precedence. That's what I'm interested in.
BTW, what programs are people using to monitor process scanning? Just curious.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by LordSaturn1783 Look. Objecting to this is stupid reactionism and only helps the hackers. Let me re-explain what I bet dozens of people above me in this topic have said...We're not talking about scanning your whole hard drive and sending the results back to Blizzard.
And that isn't the point of the thread either I thought I made that clear.
The problem here is that according to these terms of service you signed, they CAN if they want to. You gave them the right by agreeing to the contract.
Very foolish in my opinion.
Nothing in these terms states they aren't going to retrieve the information. Any statements they have made saying they are not is NOT a part of the agreement.
In other words, they can tell you anything. But you SIGNED this agreement, and tomorrow they CAN take any information they choose from your computers and transmit it to theirs. That's what the agreement states. They reserve the right, and you agree to it.
So, a public statement carries no weight. A contract does.
Only what is written in that contract applies to the discussion then.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Let's review what you signed yourselves into, shall we?
In order to assist Blizzard Entertainment to police users who may use "hacks," or "cheats" to gain an advantage over other players, you acknowledge that Blizzard Entertainment shall have the right to obtain certain information from your computer and its component parts, including your computer's random access memory, video card, central processing unit, and storage devices. This information will only be used for the purpose of identifying "cheaters," and for no other reason."
In other words, you agree to allow them to OBTAIN certain information, which is undefined.
To OBTAIN something means to retrieve it for yourself.
Given the circumstances, then, they have to right to actively scan any part of your computer system, and take anything they want and transmit it to theirs.
It's not a question of whether they are doing it today.
The real question is - will they do it TOMORROW?
According to what you signed, they have every right to do so.
The fact that they committed themselves in the contract to only using that information to catch cheaters means nothing to the discussion. The fact that they reserve the right to take ALL your information stored on your computer is what this is all about.
They never defined what information is required to catch a cheater in the contract. Apparently, they are unwilling to disclose that information as well, because by doing so it would allow the cheaters to bypass their measures, not that they are effective or anything.
There you have it in a nutshell. Section 13D of the Terms of Service of World of Warcraft allows Blizzard the right to take every bit of information off your computer and retrieve it for themselves.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
only: shall have the right to obtain certain information from your computer and its component parts, including your computer's random access memory, video card, central processing unit, and storage devices
Originally posted by Phoenixs only: shall have the right to obtain certain information from your computer and its component parts, including your computer's random access memory, video card, central processing unit, and storage devicesand they are not allowed to pass it on.
Incorrect.
It doesn't say they won't pass it on.
It says it will be used to catch cheaters. If they determine, at their whim, that revealing this information is critical to stopping the cheaters...there is nothing in the contract preventing them from doing so.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Phoenixs Not in that contract no. But there is something called laws.
According to the contract, you agree to the terms based upon CALIFORNIA law.
It depends also upon where you live. There are superceding laws which take precedence. But those laws all deal with contractual law. It's state-dependent, and country-dependent.
Look it up.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'm 95% sure that atleast in Europe it's not allowed for companies to pass on information. Not sure how it's in the USA but I don't care about that either since I live in Europe.
I read the first few pages, but I'm not about to read through all twelve pages of this thread, so forgive me if some of this has been said before.
First, remember this always: You WILLINGLY, not FORCEFULLY clicked "Accept" to the terms, which said that they would scan your computer. If you failed to read or understand what was written, thats your fault, not Blizzards.
Second, there is an old adage of logic which states that he who asserts must prove. Blizzard scans various parts of your computer, but as of yet I have not seen, on this board or any other, any indication that this information is sent back to Blizzard, such as what wallpaper your using and what websites you have visited. If you assert that Blizzard is recieiving this information, and not just scanning it looking for hacks and cheat programs, then you must prove it. If you can't prove it, then you need to stop making Blizzard out to be privacy invading bad guys.
Now if this proof was offered on one of the pages I did not read then I apologize and you can ignore this post (a moderator can even delete it if they like). Given what was written in the first few pages I did read by those most upset over this though, I doubt such evidence was presented. But again, I apologize if I'm wrong.
I know for sure that, according to California law, information gleened passively by use of cookies is not necessarily an illegal act. In fact, only one case has ever been found in favor of the plaintiff.
However, this is an ACTIVE scan, an intrusion into your computer system that you have agreed to.
One of the questions that arises is one that was found by my friend on the message boards...
Does the contract itself define an illegality? What they are requesting from you is to surrender of ALL your rights to computer privacy.
Now, I know that a company can never enforce a contract that contains an illegality. If a contract is in existence, and there is an illegality within the contract, then it is a breach of contract and no longer applies.
Secondly, and maybe more interesting to some of you, a minor can never sign a contract. The definition of a minor is different between states and countries. Let's assume for the moment that this means a person under the age of 18 years old. You happen to be 13 years old.
Is the contract then binding to a minor in this case?
I've shipped off some questions to some attorneys that deal with contract law, and some websites, about the legality of this contract and just what rules would apply.
I can't wait to see the responses....
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Wepps I know for sure that, according to California law, information gleened passively by use of cookies is not necessarily an illegal act. In fact, only one case has ever been found in favor of the plaintiff.However, this is an ACTIVE scan, an intrusion into your computer system that you have agreed to.One of the questions that arises is one that was found by my friend on the message boards...Does the contract itself define an illegality? What they are requesting from you is to surrender of ALL your rights to computer privacy.Now, I know that a company can never enforce a contract that contains an illegality. If a contract is in existence, and there is an illegality within the contract, then it is a breach of contract and no longer applies.Secondly, and maybe more interesting to some of you, a minor can never sign a contract. The definition of a minor is different between states and countries. Let's assume for the moment that this means a person under the age of 18 years old. You happen to be 13 years old.Is the contract then binding to a minor in this case?I've shipped off some questions to some attorneys that deal with contract law, and some websites, about the legality of this contract and just what rules would apply.I can't wait to see the responses....
Post it here when you get it. But I'm pretty sure Blizzard hasn't done anything wrong. A company that sells 20 mill + games worldwide can pay for attorneys that don't do anything wrong.
Originally posted by Phoenixs Post it here when you get it. But I'm pretty sure Blizzard hasn't done anything wrong. A company that sells 20 mill + games worldwide can pay for attorneys that don't do anything wrong.
You might think so.
But by this reasoning, you would think they can also pay for developers that do no wrong.
For Network Engineers that do no wrong.
For adequate website support in the form of CMs.
For adequate CSR support...and so forth hehe
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'm 100% sure they don't do wrong. Hell the company is placed in the country where you get sued for 10 million if you don't put a warning sign on coffee cups saying "Warning, may contain hot liquid" (True story)
Just to clear this up (i'm going to sound like a broken record), you ARE agreeing for your computer to be scanned.
The only flaw however, is that what if the computer is not yours? You log onto maybe a family members computer to play, Blizzard is accessing the family members files, just because another person is getting their consent? Nope, it doesn't work that way.
Originally posted by hartam This is actually illegal. Just to clear this up (i'm going to sound like a broken record), you ARE agreeing for your computer to be scanned. The only flaw however, is that what if the computer is not yours? You log onto maybe a family members computer to play, Blizzard is accessing the family members files, just because another person is getting their consent? Nope, it doesn't work that way. So if you were to sue, you would probably win.
They are not scanning the files! They are just scanning what programs/processes are doing something with Wow.exe It's like if you open taskmanager in Windows and look at what programs are running, that is a simplified version of what blizzard is doing.
If you should sue them, you wouldn't win. Blizzard has made it clear that to play the game you have to accept the terms of use. If it's yours or somebody elses computer is your problem not blizzards. Most likely you would get in trouble if you agree on that on somebodys computer.
Originally posted by Phoenixs Originally posted by hartam This is actually illegal. Just to clear this up (i'm going to sound like a broken record), you ARE agreeing for your computer to be scanned. The only flaw however, is that what if the computer is not yours? You log onto maybe a family members computer to play, Blizzard is accessing the family members files, just because another person is getting their consent? Nope, it doesn't work that way. So if you were to sue, you would probably win.
They are not scanning the files! They are just scanning what programs/processes are doing something with Wow.exe It's like if you open taskmanager in Windows and look at what programs are running, that is a simplified version of what blizzard is doing.
If you should sue them, you wouldn't win. Blizzard has made it clear that to play the game you have to accept the terms of use. If it's yours or somebody elses computer is your problem not blizzards. Most likely you would get in trouble if you agree on that on somebodys computer.
Sure, but like I said before, and this should be made CLEAR TO THE PLAYERS :
Their statement...is not the contract you signed.
They can tell you anything, and tomorrow change their minds and because of the existence of this ToS that you agreed to, there is nothing you can do about it.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
There is a legal maxim, non est factum, which means "not his deed" and a special defence in contract law to allow a person to avoid having to respect a contract that she or he signed because of certain reasons such as a mistake as to the kind of contract. For example, a person who signs away the deed to a house, thinking that the document signed was only a guarantee for another person's debt, might be able to plead non est factum in a court and on that basis get the court to void the contract.
Non est factum cannot be relied upon if the party could have easily have read the contract in question or if the party had a general idea as to the nature and purpose of the contract. The person pleading non est factum would also have to prove that they sincerely believed that the document they thought they were signing was fundamentally different from the one they actually signed.
This is fascinating.
So, a person can claim non est factum if they believed the contract stated something different than what they actually signed.
This would nullify the contract, and therefore the person in question would be due a FULL REFUND for the product.
If the person in question was not aware that they were signing away their rights to privacy, they can claim breach.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by Master_Shake don't like contract's? don't sign them. in all actuallity they are doing nothing wrong at all.. you guys just have a bug up your arses for Blizzard. you have more to worry about from using p2p programs, or even just visiting a webpage in regards to scanning your computer than you do from blizz. unless your using hacks. which is what they are scanning for. knucklheads.
Maybe your not following this thread very closely--
Just because its in there EULA doenst make it LEGAL..period.
Originally posted by logangregor Maybe your not following this thread very closely--Just because its in there EULA doenst make it LEGAL..period.
Exactly.
For example, I offer the following....
G. NEITHER BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT NOR ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES, LICENSORS OR AFFILIATES SHALL BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR LOSS OR DAMAGE OF ANY KIND RESULTING FROM THE USE OF OR INABILITY TO USE WORLD OF WARCRAFT INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION LOSS OF GOODWILL, WORK STOPPAGE, COMPUTER FAILURE OR MALFUNCTION, OR ANY AND ALL OTHER DAMAGES OR LOSSES. FURTHER, BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT SHALL NOT BE LIABLE IN ANY WAY FOR THE LOSS OR DAMAGE TO PLAYER CHARACTERS, ACCOUNTS, STATISTICS OR USER PROFILE INFORMATION STORED BY WORLD OF WARCRAFT. MOREOVER, NEITHER BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT NOR ITS PARENT, SUBSIDIARIES, LICENSORS OR AFFILIATES SHALL BE RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INTERRUPTIONS OF SERVICE INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ISP DISRUPTIONS, SOFTWARE OR HARDWARE FAILURES OR ANY OTHER EVENT WHICH MAY RESULT IN A LOSS OF DATA OR DISRUPTION OF SERVICE. IN NO EVENT WILL BLIZZARD ENTERTAINMENT BE LIABLE TO YOU OR ANYONE ELSE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, EXEMPLARY OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, or allow limitations on how long an implied warranty lasts, so the above limitations may not apply to you.
WRONG!
According to contract law, you are attempting to remove yourself from tort.
However, a person can never sign away their right to suit.
So Blizzard can HIGHLIGHT IT ALL THEY WANT, but they have no right to take away the rights of the other party in the contract.
And this I think is what this is all about. A person signing away their rights in a contract is not liable to have that enforced.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I work for the goverment sending hundreds of TOP SECRET emails a day, they better not be reading my emails if they know whats good for them. YA HEAR ME BLIZZARD!? YE'LL STOP IF YE KNOW WHATS GOOD FOR YA!
Originally posted by David_Wolfpa I work for the goverment sending hundreds of TOP SECRET emails a day, they better not be reading my emails if they know whats good for them. YA HEAR ME BLIZZARD!? YE'LL STOP IF YE KNOW WHATS GOOD FOR YA!
Question: Is there any indication that Blizzard is recieving information about the files and processes it scans? For example, is there any reason to believe that Blizzard is recieving information about the contents of the index.dat file after it scans it? As far as I can tell (and this is based on everything I have read regarding this issue and not, for example, something I have conlcuded after using a hack or cheat myself), the only time any information is sent to them is when a hack or cheat program is detected, and even then I have seen nothing which indicates that any personal information is sent.
However, if there is some evidence, then I agree that this is wrong and possibly illegal, but if there isn't, all these complaints about this being illegal and about privacy invasion sound pretty stupid. Complaining about this would be like me complaining about avast! (the anti-virus program I use at this time) after I run it, saying "Hey! This program just scanned my entire hardrive! What a privacy invading program this is!" and start yelling about how illegal avast! is on some internet forum. Obivously, the simple fact that it scanned various files, even if they were personal and private files, does not make it illegal, nor does it mean that it is invading my privacy. I would have to prove that avast! was recieiving information about the files it scans, especially about personal and private files, in order for this to be true. Likewise, unless we have reason to believe that Blizzard is recieving information about the files it scans, especially with regards to files such as index.dat, then these complaints of privacy invasion and posts saying that this is illegal sound just as stupid as my imaginary complaint with avast!.
So I ask again: is there any reason to believe that Blizzard recieves information about things such as the indext.dat file after it scans it? If not, then I ask another question: Why are you all complaining? Is it simply because you don't trust Blizzard when they say that they are only scanning for hacks and cheats and they do not recieve personal information? Or is it something else? Thanks in advance for any answers.
EDIT: Changed the first paragraph a bit, as my original post kind of gave the impession that I have used a hack or cheat for WoW, which is false. I have never used a hack or cheat in any online game, and I don't ever plan on doing so.
Comments
Look. Objecting to this is stupid reactionism and only helps the hackers. Let me re-explain what I bet dozens of people above me in this topic have said...
We're not talking about scanning your whole hard drive and sending the results back to Blizzard. We're not even talking about sending your current process list back to Blizzard. The game will recognize certain kinds of hacks running simultaneously with it and shut itself down when it spots them. Maybe, MAYBE it might also tell Blizzard "hey, I shut down due to hacks, maybe ban this guy's account". Doesn't that sound reasonable? Somebody tell me what's wrong with that. And while you do, bear in mind that dozens of other games have already been doing that.
Asking for specific technical data one what the scanner does would only help the hackers bypass it. No scan is completely proof against a determined hacker, and telling them how it works would precipitate a new wave of hacking in less than a week. I'd bet money on that as a fact.
Here's something to consider. Has everyone read the news about EQ2 recently? How they had 20% inflation in 24 hours? Think what that's like for the other EQ players. Imagine that happening to your WoW account. "We at Blizzard are sorry to announce that due to player privacy movements we were unable to prevent a hacker from counterfeiting gold pieces for three straight months, resulting in 200% inflation. To compensate for the devaluation of our in-game currency we're doubling the price of everything in the game." You need a hack scanner the same way you need the police, people. Get over it, don't wreck this because of your indignity.
P.S: If you really have a good counter-argument as requested in my second paragraph, you might PM me. I doubt I'll look at this topic again.
----------Sig----------
Take a minute to think - have you ever sounded JUST like this? Be grateful you weren't on voicechat at the time ;]
http://wowseriousbusiness.ytmnd.com/
Wepps you still here!?! i thought you said "i just don't care" about this issue like at page 3 or 4.
*scratches head
Anyway the credit card thing was meant to illustrate you must trust companies somewhat by giving them your credit card. I mean you just don't hand your credit number to any yahoo on the street. Now that i think of it though it is a rather poor analogy.
This issue seems to be dead or dieing the various forums i visit as more is known about the subject not just rumors. I think people would be sueing microsoft with there ability to scan you operating system to determine whether it was a legal copy or not. Who knows maybe they are to many lawsuits to get them all straight. I dont think much people are paying attention and a lawsuit would seem frivolous to me. Not to say they wouldn't win... U.S. law allows people to get money for spilling coffee on themselves after all.
----I seem to remember posted somewhere you can run virtualmachine (i think thats what it was called) if your real paranoid about blizzard scanning. Just run wow in the virtual machine program and it will only have access to whatever is running in the virtual computer.
But I do care about the issue!
I just don't care what happens to Blizzard lol.
Those who support anarchy, though I do not, remember a time in our history as Americans when we basically didn't care if somebody was doing something illegal.
People generally kept to themselves. Even our forefathers who were the ones responsible for the beginnings of dissent that led to our revolution against Britain were smugglers.
I like to think of myself as open-minded when it comes to these things.
But, when a criminal starts to interfere with ME, well then that's a different story. In this day and age they are much more sophisticated, and SOMETIMES they take the form of even a computer game design company. Identifying who is doing what to whom has become a real effort, and even more of an effort needs to be taken to define where the line is that you cannot cross, whether or not you take the Internet seriously.
That's what this is all about. It will define the future of gaming, and where a company can go and where they can't in the Terms of Service.
This post is dying. Let it die. If it's dying elsewhere, fine too.
But what occurs outside the forums is what takes precedence. That's what I'm interested in.
BTW, what programs are people using to monitor process scanning? Just curious.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
And that isn't the point of the thread either I thought I made that clear.
The problem here is that according to these terms of service you signed, they CAN if they want to. You gave them the right by agreeing to the contract.
Very foolish in my opinion.
Nothing in these terms states they aren't going to retrieve the information. Any statements they have made saying they are not is NOT a part of the agreement.
In other words, they can tell you anything. But you SIGNED this agreement, and tomorrow they CAN take any information they choose from your computers and transmit it to theirs. That's what the agreement states. They reserve the right, and you agree to it.
So, a public statement carries no weight. A contract does.
Only what is written in that contract applies to the discussion then.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Let's review what you signed yourselves into, shall we?
In other words, you agree to allow them to OBTAIN certain information, which is undefined.
To OBTAIN something means to retrieve it for yourself.
Given the circumstances, then, they have to right to actively scan any part of your computer system, and take anything they want and transmit it to theirs.
It's not a question of whether they are doing it today.
The real question is - will they do it TOMORROW?
According to what you signed, they have every right to do so.
The fact that they committed themselves in the contract to only using that information to catch cheaters means nothing to the discussion. The fact that they reserve the right to take ALL your information stored on your computer is what this is all about.
They never defined what information is required to catch a cheater in the contract. Apparently, they are unwilling to disclose that information as well, because by doing so it would allow the cheaters to bypass their measures, not that they are effective or anything.
There you have it in a nutshell. Section 13D of the Terms of Service of World of Warcraft allows Blizzard the right to take every bit of information off your computer and retrieve it for themselves.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
only: shall have the right to obtain certain information from your computer and its component parts, including your computer's random access memory, video card, central processing unit, and storage devices
and they are not allowed to pass it on.
Incorrect.
It doesn't say they won't pass it on.
It says it will be used to catch cheaters. If they determine, at their whim, that revealing this information is critical to stopping the cheaters...there is nothing in the contract preventing them from doing so.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Not in that contract no. But there is something called laws.
According to the contract, you agree to the terms based upon CALIFORNIA law.
It depends also upon where you live. There are superceding laws which take precedence. But those laws all deal with contractual law. It's state-dependent, and country-dependent.
Look it up.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'm 95% sure that atleast in Europe it's not allowed for companies to pass on information. Not sure how it's in the USA but I don't care about that either since I live in Europe.
I read the first few pages, but I'm not about to read through all twelve pages of this thread, so forgive me if some of this has been said before.
First, remember this always: You WILLINGLY, not FORCEFULLY clicked "Accept" to the terms, which said that they would scan your computer. If you failed to read or understand what was written, thats your fault, not Blizzards.
Second, there is an old adage of logic which states that he who asserts must prove. Blizzard scans various parts of your computer, but as of yet I have not seen, on this board or any other, any indication that this information is sent back to Blizzard, such as what wallpaper your using and what websites you have visited. If you assert that Blizzard is recieiving this information, and not just scanning it looking for hacks and cheat programs, then you must prove it. If you can't prove it, then you need to stop making Blizzard out to be privacy invading bad guys.
Now if this proof was offered on one of the pages I did not read then I apologize and you can ignore this post (a moderator can even delete it if they like). Given what was written in the first few pages I did read by those most upset over this though, I doubt such evidence was presented. But again, I apologize if I'm wrong.
I know for sure that, according to California law, information gleened passively by use of cookies is not necessarily an illegal act. In fact, only one case has ever been found in favor of the plaintiff.
However, this is an ACTIVE scan, an intrusion into your computer system that you have agreed to.
One of the questions that arises is one that was found by my friend on the message boards...
Does the contract itself define an illegality? What they are requesting from you is to surrender of ALL your rights to computer privacy.
Now, I know that a company can never enforce a contract that contains an illegality. If a contract is in existence, and there is an illegality within the contract, then it is a breach of contract and no longer applies.
Secondly, and maybe more interesting to some of you, a minor can never sign a contract. The definition of a minor is different between states and countries. Let's assume for the moment that this means a person under the age of 18 years old. You happen to be 13 years old.
Is the contract then binding to a minor in this case?
I've shipped off some questions to some attorneys that deal with contract law, and some websites, about the legality of this contract and just what rules would apply.
I can't wait to see the responses....
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Post it here when you get it. But I'm pretty sure Blizzard hasn't done anything wrong. A company that sells 20 mill + games worldwide can pay for attorneys that don't do anything wrong.
You might think so.
But by this reasoning, you would think they can also pay for developers that do no wrong.
For Network Engineers that do no wrong.
For adequate website support in the form of CMs.
For adequate CSR support...and so forth hehe
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I'm 100% sure they don't do wrong.
Hell the company is placed in the country where you get sued for 10 million if you don't put a warning sign on coffee cups saying "Warning, may contain hot liquid" (True story)
This is actually illegal.
Just to clear this up (i'm going to sound like a broken record), you ARE agreeing for your computer to be scanned.
The only flaw however, is that what if the computer is not yours? You log onto maybe a family members computer to play, Blizzard is accessing the family members files, just because another person is getting their consent? Nope, it doesn't work that way.
So if you were to sue, you would probably win.
lol
Before you post pls read blizzards statement:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4439675&p=1&tmp=1#post4439675
They are not scanning the files! They are just scanning what programs/processes are doing something with Wow.exe It's like if you open taskmanager in Windows and look at what programs are running, that is a simplified version of what blizzard is doing.
If you should sue them, you wouldn't win. Blizzard has made it clear that to play the game you have to accept the terms of use. If it's yours or somebody elses computer is your problem not blizzards. Most likely you would get in trouble if you agree on that on somebodys computer.
lol
Before you post pls read blizzards statement:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.aspx?fn=wow-general&t=4439675&p=1&tmp=1#post4439675
They are not scanning the files! They are just scanning what programs/processes are doing something with Wow.exe It's like if you open taskmanager in Windows and look at what programs are running, that is a simplified version of what blizzard is doing.
If you should sue them, you wouldn't win. Blizzard has made it clear that to play the game you have to accept the terms of use. If it's yours or somebody elses computer is your problem not blizzards. Most likely you would get in trouble if you agree on that on somebodys computer.
Sure, but like I said before, and this should be made CLEAR TO THE PLAYERS :
Their statement...is not the contract you signed.
They can tell you anything, and tomorrow change their minds and because of the existence of this ToS that you agreed to, there is nothing you can do about it.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
FIRST ANSWER ARRIVES
This is fascinating.
So, a person can claim non est factum if they believed the contract stated something different than what they actually signed.
This would nullify the contract, and therefore the person in question would be due a FULL REFUND for the product.
If the person in question was not aware that they were signing away their rights to privacy, they can claim breach.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Maybe your not following this thread very closely--
Just because its in there EULA doenst make it LEGAL..period.
Exactly.
For example, I offer the following....
WRONG!
According to contract law, you are attempting to remove yourself from tort.
However, a person can never sign away their right to suit.
So Blizzard can HIGHLIGHT IT ALL THEY WANT, but they have no right to take away the rights of the other party in the contract.
And this I think is what this is all about. A person signing away their rights in a contract is not liable to have that enforced.
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"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
I work for the goverment sending hundreds of TOP SECRET emails a day, they better not be reading my emails if they know whats good for them. YA HEAR ME BLIZZARD!? YE'LL STOP IF YE KNOW WHATS GOOD FOR YA!
I really hope you're joking and just making fun.
Question: Is there any indication that Blizzard is recieving information about the files and processes it scans? For example, is there any reason to believe that Blizzard is recieving information about the contents of the index.dat file after it scans it? As far as I can tell (and this is based on everything I have read regarding this issue and not, for example, something I have conlcuded after using a hack or cheat myself), the only time any information is sent to them is when a hack or cheat program is detected, and even then I have seen nothing which indicates that any personal information is sent.
However, if there is some evidence, then I agree that this is wrong and possibly illegal, but if there isn't, all these complaints about this being illegal and about privacy invasion sound pretty stupid. Complaining about this would be like me complaining about avast! (the anti-virus program I use at this time) after I run it, saying "Hey! This program just scanned my entire hardrive! What a privacy invading program this is!" and start yelling about how illegal avast! is on some internet forum. Obivously, the simple fact that it scanned various files, even if they were personal and private files, does not make it illegal, nor does it mean that it is invading my privacy. I would have to prove that avast! was recieiving information about the files it scans, especially about personal and private files, in order for this to be true. Likewise, unless we have reason to believe that Blizzard is recieving information about the files it scans, especially with regards to files such as index.dat, then these complaints of privacy invasion and posts saying that this is illegal sound just as stupid as my imaginary complaint with avast!.
So I ask again: is there any reason to believe that Blizzard recieves information about things such as the indext.dat file after it scans it? If not, then I ask another question: Why are you all complaining? Is it simply because you don't trust Blizzard when they say that they are only scanning for hacks and cheats and they do not recieve personal information? Or is it something else? Thanks in advance for any answers.
EDIT: Changed the first paragraph a bit, as my original post kind of gave the impession that I have used a hack or cheat for WoW, which is false. I have never used a hack or cheat in any online game, and I don't ever plan on doing so.