Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
Well since it appears you are more concerned with TOR than the PTW scheme going on with GW2, lets clue you into reality shall we?
SWG held their NDA till either the weekend prior to launch, or the weekend before that. It was a steaming pile of shit. Bugged worse than Bethesda games, non functioning classes, and total lack of anything to do.
If you had been around during that time, you would understand just how big a mess it was. Hell we heard about it daily in EQ, and if you checked various sites, word was getting out even with the NDA in effect. Still those unaware bought a lot of boxes, yet SWG began plummeting the very first month.
Most gamers couldnt stand it. The RPers though had their stage. The most expensive MMO at that time, with nothing to show for it than big empty worlds. When I say big empty worlds, they were exactly that. I know there were no vehicles, and IIRC they didnt even have housing ready. A pitiful amount of varied PVE, but by golly Owen could sell ya the same armor ad nauseum.
You dont get 2 total revamps, on a game, when the subs are doing well.
SWG was the cement shoes for the sandbox MMO industry. That shit just doesnt float. It takes rose glasses to remember otherwise.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What a load of crap. The development of SWG was first announced in 2000 with the official site being released in November of that year. The game wasn't released until 2003. That was THREE years between the official announcment and release. TOR was first announced in 2008 and released in 2011. That was also THREE years between the announcment and the release.
I know you want to defend SWG's honor, but the truth is their release was no where near the success TOR's is even though they had similiar time to hype the game.
ROTFLMAO@U!!
If you acually believe you can compare an MMO game release in 2003 to one released today you are totally delutional, and the truth has already been stated even if you are having a bit of a tough time dealing with it... post NGE SWG WAS a far better game than the piece of crap TOR is currently.
Whatever you say bud. In YOUR OPINION is was a better game. In my opinion SWG couldn't hold TOR's jock strap. Where is SWG again? Oh that's right, it's DEAD as all MMO's are that can't hold a decent subscription.
Mad Bro?
lol.......
Maybe an opinion, but it's one shared by an ever growing number of FORMER subscribers, and why are you interested in anyone holding anybodies jockstrap? You may have as many issues brewing as TOR...
/tsk
Who is mad....we got a Star Wars MMO. Pity you cant say the same.
The former subscribers you mention seem to be the same folks clamoring for sandboxes, on this very site, for many yrs now. You will have to forgive me if I look upon their wants, and laugh.
Every once in a while you will see a thread that hits the truth......no one wants to produce a sandbox for that niche of folks that enjoy them. If for some reason producers started making sandboxes, I simply wouldnt buy them.
I sure wouldnt spend my time bitching over one that had just launched. So who did you say is mad?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
SWTOR needs to polish and fix the things it's trying to be before adding a new paradigm on top.
Eventually they couldn't hurt by adding in user created, sandboxy or more immersive elements at end game.
I agree with tuning the game/fixing any issues.
However:
This isnt a sandbox.....fuck user created content. Devs create the content in a themepark. If they wanna stick the shit on the PVP side of the equation though, I have nothing to say about it.
Adding night/day, and NPCs that take care of tasks at given times would be a nice touch. Bringing the world to life so to speak. I wish they had added various skills that needed to be leveled up, but probably would be too much to put in at this point. Things such as 1 hand slash, 2 hand slash, defense, dodge, etc add to the depth IMO.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What a load of crap. The development of SWG was first announced in 2000 with the official site being released in November of that year. The game wasn't released until 2003. That was THREE years between the official announcment and release. TOR was first announced in 2008 and released in 2011. That was also THREE years between the announcment and the release.
I know you want to defend SWG's honor, but the truth is their release was no where near the success TOR's is even though they had similiar time to hype the game.
ROTFLMAO@U!!
If you acually believe you can compare an MMO game release in 2003 to one released today you are totally delutional, and the truth has already been stated even if you are having a bit of a tough time dealing with it... post NGE SWG WAS a far better game than the piece of crap TOR is currently.
Whatever you say bud. In YOUR OPINION is was a better game. In my opinion SWG couldn't hold TOR's jock strap. Where is SWG again? Oh that's right, it's DEAD as all MMO's are that can't hold a decent subscription.
Mad Bro?
lol.......
Maybe an opinion, but it's one shared by an ever growing number of FORMER subscribers, and why are you interested in anyone holding anybodies jockstrap? You may have as many issues brewing as TOR...
/tsk
Who is mad....we got a Star Wars MMO. Pity you cant say the same.
The former subscribers you mention seem to be the same folks clamoring for sandboxes, on this very site, for many yrs now. You will have to forgive me if I look upon their wants, and laugh.
Every once in a while you will see a thread that hits the truth......no one wants to produce a sandbox for that niche of folks that enjoy them. If for some reason producers started making sandboxes, I simply wouldnt buy them.
I sure wouldnt spend my time bitching over one that had just launched. So who did you say is mad?
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
I never said that you were wrong on when YOU knew about the game. I said that you were wrong about the amount of HYPE that SWG had. This whole conversation started with you trying to insinuate that TOR was more successful than SWG at launch because it had more hype. I just posted links showing that SWG had loads of hype leading up to launch. So yes, you were wrong. Just admit it and move on.
SWG had hype yeah. But I've never seen a game more hyped than swtor. Except maybe duke nukem forever!
No doubt about it TOR had loads of hype. But to say that SWG had little hype is to be ignorant of history. For its time it had as much hype as any company could hope to do for an MMORPG. I also fail to see how that takes away from a successful launch. To me it makes sense to hype your game so that the masses know it exists. That's just smart business.
But that's only a part of the reason for success. SWTOR appealed to more gamers than SWG ever did. They are 2 very different games. It also helps that swg was suddenly shut down without good reason just before swtor was released. Still it doesn't take away that swtor is a more appealing game to casual gamers than swg was. Personally I'd take swg tho. The game was richer and provided the better story as I was in control.
My favorite version of SWG was the CU. While many crafters complained about it, I thought it struck the right balance. If SOE had built on that I think it would have been a nice alternative to WOW. But when they hit us with the NGE, my entire city outside of Bestin left. It was devastating to the player community and I wouldn't wish that type of bait and switch on any game. I think anyone that does wish that type of underhanded tactic on others are shallow human beings.
SWTOR had more hype because there was more outlets to push it, unlike back in 2003 and before, when the internet was new and fresh. The more people who got to hear of it get to push it further, in a snowball effect. SWTOR had the biggest snowball, as the internet is more common place before its release.
I am gutted that I missed the Beta for SWG, because of the lack of hype. If I missed it then loads of other people would have missed it too. With SWTOR virtually EVERYONE knew it was coming.
I never said that you were wrong on when YOU knew about the game. I said that you were wrong about the amount of HYPE that SWG had. This whole conversation started with you trying to insinuate that TOR was more successful than SWG at launch because it had more hype. I just posted links showing that SWG had loads of hype leading up to launch. So yes, you were wrong. Just admit it and move on.
SWG had hype yeah. But I've never seen a game more hyped than swtor. Except maybe duke nukem forever!
No doubt about it TOR had loads of hype. But to say that SWG had little hype is to be ignorant of history. For its time it had as much hype as any company could hope to do for an MMORPG. I also fail to see how that takes away from a successful launch. To me it makes sense to hype your game so that the masses know it exists. That's just smart business.
But that's only a part of the reason for success. SWTOR appealed to more gamers than SWG ever did. They are 2 very different games. It also helps that swg was suddenly shut down without good reason just before swtor was released. Still it doesn't take away that swtor is a more appealing game to casual gamers than swg was. Personally I'd take swg tho. The game was richer and provided the better story as I was in control.
My favorite version of SWG was the CU. While many crafters complained about it, I thought it struck the right balance. If SOE had built on that I think it would have been a nice alternative to WOW. But when they hit us with the NGE, my entire city outside of Bestin left. It was devastating to the player community and I wouldn't wish that type of bait and switch on any game. I think anyone that does wish that type of underhanded tactic on others are shallow human beings.
SWTOR had more hype because there was more outlets to push it, unlike back in 2003 and before, when the internet was new and fresh. The more people who got to hear of it get to push it further, in a snowball effect. SWTOR had the biggest snowball, as the internet is more common place before its release.
I am gutted that I missed the Beta for SWG, because of the lack of hype. If I missed it then loads of other people would have missed it too. With SWTOR virtually EVERYONE knew it was coming.
this is accurate, and the comparison is fail. You can't compare the two games in this aspect.
What a load of crap. The development of SWG was first announced in 2000 with the official site being released in November of that year. The game wasn't released until 2003. That was THREE years between the official announcment and release. TOR was first announced in 2008 and released in 2011. That was also THREE years between the announcment and the release.
I know you want to defend SWG's honor, but the truth is their release was no where near the success TOR's is even though they had similiar time to hype the game.
ROTFLMAO@U!!
If you acually believe you can compare an MMO game release in 2003 to one released today you are totally delutional, and the truth has already been stated even if you are having a bit of a tough time dealing with it... post NGE SWG WAS a far better game than the piece of crap TOR is currently.
Whatever you say bud. In YOUR OPINION is was a better game. In my opinion SWG couldn't hold TOR's jock strap. Where is SWG again? Oh that's right, it's DEAD as all MMO's are that can't hold a decent subscription.
Mad Bro?
lol.......
Maybe an opinion, but it's one shared by an ever growing number of FORMER subscribers, and why are you interested in anyone holding anybodies jockstrap? You may have as many issues brewing as TOR...
/tsk
Who is mad....we got a Star Wars MMO. Pity you cant say the same.
The former subscribers you mention seem to be the same folks clamoring for sandboxes, on this very site, for many yrs now. You will have to forgive me if I look upon their wants, and laugh.
Every once in a while you will see a thread that hits the truth......no one wants to produce a sandbox for that niche of folks that enjoy them. If for some reason producers started making sandboxes, I simply wouldnt buy them.
I sure wouldnt spend my time bitching over one that had just launched. So who did you say is mad?
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
I can speak for myself thanks. I have no need for you to put words in my mouth.
You guys are free to post as you will, the same as I will. As far as your contention about "moral highground", I view that as not going into other games forums to stir shit, and promote negative feelings towards others enjoyment.
The next time you wanna suggest what I should do, I think you should remember what forum you are actually in.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I remember having this debate on the official TOR forums way before release, that's when some of us still had hope it might not turn into another wow clone. I thought the Star Wars fan base did not want the NGE so they would naturally be repelled by a WOW clone which would basically make it Sony NGE with a better skin. I think some industry insiders had this hard headed attitude that they were going to prove it wasn't their fault the NGE was a failure and that it was the players fault for not understanding their genious. Now maybe after round two of WOW clone failure they will finally stop shoving this down our throat. Dan Rubenfield is a representative of this attitude that, being a former NGE dev who perpetuates the myth that the NGE improved the game and that the players were just stupid for not understanding the pure genious of cloning WOW.
So you can imagine when office management types like EA buy out a company, you think their going to listen to the players, or a few disgruntled ex developers and raider guilds, thats right they listened to a few ex developers for Sony and raider guilds and this is the polished final product of that attitude that for some reason players should be content with wow clones, that are cheaply made because they want to milk subs without any development cost and act astounded when the stupid players don't want to play thier trash. I for one am happy to be watching the second NGE 2.0 disaster be slowly flushed down the toilet where it belongs, just another soon to be FTP game trying to milk it for all it's worth so EA can break even, pathetic.
Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
Well since it appears you are more concerned with TOR than the PTW scheme going on with GW2, lets clue you into reality shall we?
SWG held their NDA till either the weekend prior to launch, or the weekend before that. It was a steaming pile of shit. Bugged worse than Bethesda games, non functioning classes, and total lack of anything to do.
If you had been around during that time, you would understand just how big a mess it was. Hell we heard about it daily in EQ, and if you checked various sites, word was getting out even with the NDA in effect. Still those unaware bought a lot of boxes, yet SWG began plummeting the very first month.
Most gamers couldnt stand it. The RPers though had their stage. The most expensive MMO at that time, with nothing to show for it than big empty worlds. When I say big empty worlds, they were exactly that. I know there were no vehicles, and IIRC they didnt even have housing ready. A pitiful amount of varied PVE, but by golly Owen could sell ya the same armor ad nauseum.
You dont get 2 total revamps, on a game, when the subs are doing well.
SWG was the cement shoes for the sandbox MMO industry. That shit just doesnt float. It takes rose glasses to remember otherwise.
In your first sentence You show how clueless you are with the gw2 comment.
And tbh swg had more life than I've seen in this game if I don't take into account the first month. And I played swg til close. Lifeless planets? Even with a fraction of swtor numbers swg made the game feel more alive than swtor ever have
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
Basically you are suggesting to take TOR, a game that isn't half bad and turn it into utter shit.
NTY.
swg was not a bad game at all i'm surprised people are claiming this, just goes to show how much SWTOR fans are completely disconnected from reality sometimes. sheesh. And a game on rails is never half bad it's all bad, that's something that F2P developers do, not a 200mil budget game title.
Well since it appears you are more concerned with TOR than the PTW scheme going on with GW2, lets clue you into reality shall we?
SWG held their NDA till either the weekend prior to launch, or the weekend before that. It was a steaming pile of shit. Bugged worse than Bethesda games, non functioning classes, and total lack of anything to do.
If you had been around during that time, you would understand just how big a mess it was. Hell we heard about it daily in EQ, and if you checked various sites, word was getting out even with the NDA in effect. Still those unaware bought a lot of boxes, yet SWG began plummeting the very first month.
Most gamers couldnt stand it. The RPers though had their stage. The most expensive MMO at that time, with nothing to show for it than big empty worlds. When I say big empty worlds, they were exactly that. I know there were no vehicles, and IIRC they didnt even have housing ready. A pitiful amount of varied PVE, but by golly Owen could sell ya the same armor ad nauseum.
You dont get 2 total revamps, on a game, when the subs are doing well.
SWG was the cement shoes for the sandbox MMO industry. That shit just doesnt float. It takes rose glasses to remember otherwise.
In your first sentence You show how clueless you are with the gw2 comment.
And tbh swg had more life than I've seen in this game if I don't take into account the first month. And I played swg til close. Lifeless planets? Even with a fraction of swtor numbers swg made the game feel more alive than swtor ever have
There is a whole shitstorm brewing about the P2W, so spare me the "how clueless" comments eh? I started EQ in Feb 01, and I sure dont ever remember what Anet pulling as being kosher.
While you are at it, you might as well keep the comments on how "alive" SWG felt to yourself. I ran across Tat, on Bria, during the CU era.....I know for a fact the areas were spattered with ghost towns. We wont even talk about the various bots spamming chat about Ent services. So if that is what is considered alive, I would hate to see dead. TOR may not have the atmosphere of an EQ, but as a game it towers over SWG.....subwise as well.
That is neither here nor there. MMORPG.com has a SWG forum.....use it if you wanna discuss that game, but dont come to this forum and expect the same reception. Some of us arent afraid to call a shitty game exactly that, and SWG sucked like no ones business. Which is why it is burnt n crispy....much like Uncle Owen.
Next time you wanna talk about clueless, lets remember that not a single sandbox has topped EQ during its prime. So coming into the number 2 subbed NA MMO, and carrying on about sandboxes is the shining epitome of being "clueless".
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
What a load of crap. The development of SWG was first announced in 2000 with the official site being released in November of that year. The game wasn't released until 2003. That was THREE years between the official announcment and release. TOR was first announced in 2008 and released in 2011. That was also THREE years between the announcment and the release.
I know you want to defend SWG's honor, but the truth is their release was no where near the success TOR's is even though they had similiar time to hype the game.
ROTFLMAO@U!!
If you acually believe you can compare an MMO game release in 2003 to one released today you are totally delutional, and the truth has already been stated even if you are having a bit of a tough time dealing with it... post NGE SWG WAS a far better game than the piece of crap TOR is currently.
Whatever you say bud. In YOUR OPINION is was a better game. In my opinion SWG couldn't hold TOR's jock strap. Where is SWG again? Oh that's right, it's DEAD as all MMO's are that can't hold a decent subscription.
Mad Bro?
lol.......
Maybe an opinion, but it's one shared by an ever growing number of FORMER subscribers, and why are you interested in anyone holding anybodies jockstrap? You may have as many issues brewing as TOR...
/tsk
Who is mad....we got a Star Wars MMO. Pity you cant say the same.
The former subscribers you mention seem to be the same folks clamoring for sandboxes, on this very site, for many yrs now. You will have to forgive me if I look upon their wants, and laugh.
Every once in a while you will see a thread that hits the truth......no one wants to produce a sandbox for that niche of folks that enjoy them. If for some reason producers started making sandboxes, I simply wouldnt buy them.
I sure wouldnt spend my time bitching over one that had just launched. So who did you say is mad?
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
I can speak for myself thanks. I have no need for you to put words in my mouth.
You guys are free to post as you will, the same as I will. As far as your contention about "moral highground", I view that as not going into other games forums to stir shit, and promote negative feelings towards others enjoyment.
The next time you wanna suggest what I should do, I think you should remember what forum you are actually in.
OK then by that rationale I am free to put words in your mouth as you can't tell me what to do either. I'll do it in bigger text this time. Thanks for permission.
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
I don't think you could really change what TOR is, you would have to do a lot more than they did with the NGE. I mean to unrail something, you would have to redesign most the planets just for starters...
I think TOR is what it is...For good (for some), and for bad (the others).
Any time you have to pay licensing for a IP, you are at greater risk, because not only do you have to meet regular profits, you also have to take the hit on the IP fees. If SWG was not licensed, it would still be around, and I honestly doubt it would of gotten the CU/NGE. I had never seen anyone change their product so drastically, and I would think it would be a witch hunt in a boardroom if someone brought it up...But that is the risk, when you do not control everything about your product.
So while I say I don't think they could really sandbox up TOR, if numbers/profit do not get to where they want with the release of the same types of content, I don't think you could rule out change, due to Lucas. The guy likes to tinker ( as evidence of him having a ton of different updates to the original trilogy, and SWG). If the numbers fall below 500k, the chances start to increase...Only time will tell.
It should be possible to add a sandbox feature to the game without causing harm to the current design. Below are some of my ideas(some may not be totally sandbox). Basically add/work on the following content:
- Each new world offer player housing options like SWG
Player housing is already ingame, it's your ship, they are adding some functionality to this in 1.2 and Guild Ships are planned for the future
- Planets scale player level much like a warzone(Not too sure on this idea, your thoughts?)
Planets already have linear progression, why would you need to revisit a Noob planet at 50? I admit the planets could do with some High Level areas to revisit
- Add faction control points through each world which reset each day. The faction controlling gets additional bonuses for that planet only
Not everyone is playing for PvP..
- (Faction control points) Bonuses to include additional abilities, like air support, extra companion, Planet locals do not attack on sight, etc.
See above
- Random high level named mob and NPC bases that spawn in random areas of the Planet.
Already exist, World Bosses and Champions
- Add PVP based based combat that ties into the Planetary factional control points(Could have a space station you need to take control of or something above the Planet).
As before not everyone is playing for PvP
I'm sure I could come up with some more concepts, but these are some I feel should be at the top. Normally I spend all my time reading posts, but I can no longer stand by and watch what should be a good game go down in flames.
Who says it is going down in flames? just the same crowd of Anti-SWTOR posters that appear here everyday. 1.2 will bring back some players, But I am still seeing plenty of action on my Server at present
There is a whole shitstorm brewing about the P2W, so spare me the "how clueless" comments eh? I started EQ in Feb 01, and I sure dont ever remember what Anet pulling as being kosher.
While you are at it, you might as well keep the comments on how "alive" SWG felt to yourself. I ran across Tat, on Bria, during the CU era.....I know for a fact the areas were spattered with ghost towns. We wont even talk about the various bots spamming chat about Ent services. So if that is what is considered alive, I would hate to see dead. TOR may not have the atmosphere of an EQ, but as a game it towers over SWG.....subwise as well.
That is neither here nor there. MMORPG.com has a SWG forum.....use it if you wanna discuss that game, but dont come to this forum and expect the same reception. Some of us arent afraid to call a shitty game exactly that, and SWG sucked like no ones business. Which is why it is burnt n crispy....much like Uncle Owen.
Next time you wanna talk about clueless, lets remember that not a single sandbox has topped EQ during its prime. So coming into the number 2 subbed NA MMO, and carrying on about sandboxes is the shining epitome of being "clueless".
There is a storm brewing because people have jumped to a conclusion with no foundation to their argument. If you want to tell me how GW2 is P2W then fine, but dont just repeat rumour as if they're fact. especially as they are rumour made up by morons who are unable to back up their claims.
Dont call me clueless when you're talking about personal preferences though. i admit i prefer SWG and i admit that is my personal choice. The game even in its NGE form offered far more content and fun factor for me than SWTOR did. i'm sorry you found it dead, but from your comment it seems you werent playing at a great time, but i'm not going to say you're wrong as thats your personal experience, as my time in SWTOR is mine. Neither of them is fact.
The only thing i can say is fact is the situation regarding GW2 taht you commented on which is definitely not true as it stands now. The arguing over what was better SWTOR or SWG is like arguing over what car is better, Aston Martin or Porsche. Its personal preference.
As i already said they are 2 very different games. Personally i try to steer clear of comparing SWG & SWTOR but people will, and you cant say one person is right or wrong.
SWTOR needs work, that much is clear, but i wouldnt say it needs to change its direction completely and become sandbox.
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
What a load of crap. The development of SWG was first announced in 2000 with the official site being released in November of that year. The game wasn't released until 2003. That was THREE years between the official announcment and release. TOR was first announced in 2008 and released in 2011. That was also THREE years between the announcment and the release. I know you want to defend SWG's honor, but the truth is their release was no where near the success TOR's is even though they had similiar time to hype the game.
ROTFLMAO@U!!
If you acually believe you can compare an MMO game release in 2003 to one released today you are totally delutional, and the truth has already been stated even if you are having a bit of a tough time dealing with it... post NGE SWG WAS a far better game than the piece of crap TOR is currently.
Whatever you say bud. In YOUR OPINION is was a better game. In my opinion SWG couldn't hold TOR's jock strap. Where is SWG again? Oh that's right, it's DEAD as all MMO's are that can't hold a decent subscription.
Mad Bro?
lol.......
Maybe an opinion, but it's one shared by an ever growing number of FORMER subscribers, and why are you interested in anyone holding anybodies jockstrap? You may have as many issues brewing as TOR...
/tsk
Who is mad....we got a Star Wars MMO. Pity you cant say the same.
The former subscribers you mention seem to be the same folks clamoring for sandboxes, on this very site, for many yrs now. You will have to forgive me if I look upon their wants, and laugh.
Every once in a while you will see a thread that hits the truth......no one wants to produce a sandbox for that niche of folks that enjoy them. If for some reason producers started making sandboxes, I simply wouldnt buy them.
I sure wouldnt spend my time bitching over one that had just launched. So who did you say is mad?
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
I can speak for myself thanks. I have no need for you to put words in my mouth.
You guys are free to post as you will, the same as I will. As far as your contention about "moral highground", I view that as not going into other games forums to stir shit, and promote negative feelings towards others enjoyment.
The next time you wanna suggest what I should do, I think you should remember what forum you are actually in.
I have remembered what forum we are in, it's MMORPG.com, a general MMO forum, if you want to claim ownership of one of the sub-forums then I suggest you visit the official EA forum, however they are generally more negative than here so you might not be too happy, here on MMORPG.com they are not here to only host positive views about a game, in fact they support all views and the activity that generates earns them the dollars to continue. SWTOR obviously has retention problems due to its linear empty experience so a suggestion on how to broaden the game experience has its place on the SWTOR forum.
I think we should all look at Bioware/TOR in a different light so to speak. Let's remember, Bioware's main gaming model will always be SP games. To me, it's the reason why TOR turned out the way it is and that's probably not gonna change unless they have a total change in direction if they make a ME mmo.
It looks like they played it very safe and took the least amount of risk when they made TOR. It looks and feels very much like KOTOR 3. Everyone knows that in SP pc /console games the profit is made on the initial box sales and not long term sale models. TOR fits that bill perfectly and i think that Bioware and EA wanted it that way.
TOR is light on mmo and heavy on SPRPG coop systems. This was done on purpose, and not a mistake that some people think was made by Bioware. I really think they bet, that when the dust cleared after launch, that the majority of players were people that loved the SP KOTOR style of gaming and were gonna play the game as such, reach the end of the story and then either stay interested enough to pay a sub or unsub and wait until the next big content and continuence of their story is released. This is also, i believe the reason they said that they can make a profit with only a few hundred thousand subs.
They knew that the game being so light on the mmo side would only keep most of those players in the game for a very short time, and they would move on after the intial 30 or 60 days. They were never the main target audience in my opinion.
So yea, their not gonna NGE TOR or do anything but continue to add a few fluff things here and there. They will keep adding in more of the end level gear stuff to try and keep the mmo players happy that continue to play, but they will never change the core of what TOR really is. This way, if the game really does make a sharp downward turn and starts to totally flake out, Bioware/EA can go into total maintanence mode or shut it down, because they have already made their initial investment back and are in profit mode already.
If some don't think that they already have made their investment back, just put the numbers to it. They sold 2 million pre-orders, that combines box and digital. Now were not talking about the CE, i'm just using the $60.00 version. You add that up and just in initial pre-orders sales, they grossed 120 million. So, if you use just the 3 month period and take the $15.00 and times that by the 1.7 million they say they have subbed up, you get a 25 miilion dollar a month or another 75 million in those 3 months. Which put the total take at, 195 million and that's not factoring in people who subbed up for 6 months or all those that bought the CE. So, right now, they can go on and bleed subs, but in the end they will have turned a profit on TOR.
This is all my opinion , but to me, it does look like this is the route they have taken. In the end, i just didn't get the SW mmorpg that i really wanted, other's did and you just have to move on hoping that one day there will be another.
I think we should all look at Bioware/TOR in a different light so to speak. Let's remember, Bioware's main gaming model will always be SP games. To me, it's the reason why TOR turned out the way it is and that's probably not gonna change unless they have a total change in direction if they make a ME mmo. It looks like they played it very safe and took the least amount of risk when they made TOR. It looks and feels very much like KOTOR 3. Everyone knows that in SP pc /console games the profit is made on the initial box sales and not long term sale models. TOR fits that bill perfectly and i think that Bioware and EA wanted it that way. TOR is light on mmo and heavy on SPRPG coop systems. This was done on purpose, and not a mistake that some people think was made by Bioware. I really think they bet, that when the dust cleared after launch, that the majority of players were people that loved the SP KOTOR style of gaming and were gonna play the game as such, reach the end of the story and then either stay interested enough to pay a sub or unsub and wait until the next big content and continuence of their story is released. This is also, i believe the reason they said that they can make a profit with only a few hundred thousand subs. They knew that the game being so light on the mmo side would only keep most of those players in the game for a very short time, and they would move on after the intial 30 or 60 days. They were never the main target audience in my opinion. So yea, their not gonna NGE TOR or do anything but continue to add a few fluff things here and there. They will keep adding in more of the end level gear stuff to try and keep the mmo players happy that continue to play, but they will never change the core of what TOR really is. This way, if the game really does make a sharp downward turn and starts to totally flake out, Bioware/EA can go into total maintanence mode or shut it down, because they have already made their initial investment back and are in profit mode already. If some don't think that they already have made their investment back, just put the numbers to it. They sold 2 million pre-orders, that combines box and digital. Now were not talking about the CE, i'm just using the $60.00 version. You add that up and just in initial pre-orders sales, they grossed 120 million. So, if you use just the 3 month period and take the $15.00 and times that by the 1.7 million they say they have subbed up, you get a 25 miilion dollar a month or another 75 million in those 3 months. Which put the total take at, 195 million and that's not factoring in people who subbed up for 6 months or all those that bought the CE. So, right now, they can go on and bleed subs, but in the end they will have turned a profit on TOR. This is all my opinion , but to me, it does look like this is the route they have taken. In the end, i just didn't get the SW mmorpg that i really wanted, other's did and you just have to move on hoping that one day there will be another.
I would think they don't get the full $60 for each sale as distributors and retailers need to take their slice, I would think they get say $40 a piece so that's 80m if you assume at the end of the free month 1.5m subs that's 22m, if you assume 1.2m at the end of month 2 that's 18m, if you assume 1m at the end of month 3 that's 15m so we have 135m vs costs of 200m.
Obviously, until EA lease their actual sub figures for their Financial figures next month no one knows what the situation is, but it is not a given that they have covered their profits, especially with all indicators signalling falling subs.
Simply, Sony/LA thought their product was too complex and so dumbed it down with the NGE. Will EA decide the WoW clonething isn't working and perform a reverse NGE to sandbox things up.
Will SWG fans explode with irony.
Yeah, it's a funny idea, and I would like to see it, in principle. But it seems like it would be easier for BW to try to perfect/improve their themepark than to allocate resources to adding sandbox elements. They don't seem to know much about themeparks, and I bet they know even less about sandbox.
Seems like BW don't have much experience with MMORPGs to begin with and they're learning through trial and error to get their themepark right with SWTOR. I can't imagine how it would be if they set out to make their game more successful by "sandboxing things up." It seems like BW would have zero sandbox competence.
It should be possible to add a sandbox feature to the game without causing harm to the current design. Below are some of my ideas(some may not be totally sandbox). Basically add/work on the following content:
- Each new world offer player housing options like SWG
Player housing is already ingame, it's your ship, they are adding some functionality to this in 1.2 and Guild Ships are planned for the future
- Planets scale player level much like a warzone(Not too sure on this idea, your thoughts?)
Planets already have linear progression, why would you need to revisit a Noob planet at 50? I admit the planets could do with some High Level areas to revisit
- Add faction control points through each world which reset each day. The faction controlling gets additional bonuses for that planet only
Not everyone is playing for PvP..
- (Faction control points) Bonuses to include additional abilities, like air support, extra companion, Planet locals do not attack on sight, etc.
See above
- Random high level named mob and NPC bases that spawn in random areas of the Planet.
Already exist, World Bosses and Champions
- Add PVP based based combat that ties into the Planetary factional control points(Could have a space station you need to take control of or something above the Planet).
As before not everyone is playing for PvP
I'm sure I could come up with some more concepts, but these are some I feel should be at the top. Normally I spend all my time reading posts, but I can no longer stand by and watch what should be a good game go down in flames.
Who says it is going down in flames? just the same crowd of Anti-SWTOR posters that appear here everyday. 1.2 will bring back some players, But I am still seeing plenty of action on my Server at present
Well put. The game is doing just fine from where I'm sitting. The people that hate it will always hate it no matter what Bioware does to the game short of NGEing it, whiich will NEVER happen.
People screaming for Sandbox have no idea what they ask for. All sandbox games to date failed hard. It will be the same for all upcoming sandbox games.
I think we should all look at Bioware/TOR in a different light so to speak. Let's remember, Bioware's main gaming model will always be SP games. To me, it's the reason why TOR turned out the way it is and that's probably not gonna change unless they have a total change in direction if they make a ME mmo.
It looks like they played it very safe and took the least amount of risk when they made TOR. It looks and feels very much like KOTOR 3. Everyone knows that in SP pc /console games the profit is made on the initial box sales and not long term sale models. TOR fits that bill perfectly and i think that Bioware and EA wanted it that way.
TOR is light on mmo and heavy on SPRPG coop systems. This was done on purpose, and not a mistake that some people think was made by Bioware. I really think they bet, that when the dust cleared after launch, that the majority of players were people that loved the SP KOTOR style of gaming and were gonna play the game as such, reach the end of the story and then either stay interested enough to pay a sub or unsub and wait until the next big content and continuence of their story is released. This is also, i believe the reason they said that they can make a profit with only a few hundred thousand subs.
They knew that the game being so light on the mmo side would only keep most of those players in the game for a very short time, and they would move on after the intial 30 or 60 days. They were never the main target audience in my opinion.
So yea, their not gonna NGE TOR or do anything but continue to add a few fluff things here and there. They will keep adding in more of the end level gear stuff to try and keep the mmo players happy that continue to play, but they will never change the core of what TOR really is. This way, if the game really does make a sharp downward turn and starts to totally flake out, Bioware/EA can go into total maintanence mode or shut it down, because they have already made their initial investment back and are in profit mode already.
If some don't think that they already have made their investment back, just put the numbers to it. They sold 2 million pre-orders, that combines box and digital. Now were not talking about the CE, i'm just using the $60.00 version. You add that up and just in initial pre-orders sales, they grossed 120 million. So, if you use just the 3 month period and take the $15.00 and times that by the 1.7 million they say they have subbed up, you get a 25 miilion dollar a month or another 75 million in those 3 months. Which put the total take at, 195 million and that's not factoring in people who subbed up for 6 months or all those that bought the CE. So, right now, they can go on and bleed subs, but in the end they will have turned a profit on TOR.
This is all my opinion , but to me, it does look like this is the route they have taken. In the end, i just didn't get the SW mmorpg that i really wanted, other's did and you just have to move on hoping that one day there will be another.
good post, and I didn't consider the idea that they did what they did purposefully and with the intent of carving a new niche (SP MMO). The only thing I wonder about though is actions like the guild summit, and continued lip service to regular MMO features designed to enthuse those who group. On the other hand, I can't think of any sandbox style content that has been mentioned as a coming feature as mentioned by BW.
People screaming for Sandbox have no idea what they ask for. All sandbox games to date failed hard. It will be the same for all upcoming sandbox games.
Having trouble understanding how you can say there was nothing to do in SWG. Do you mean there was nothing that interested you to do in SWG? Because the options for activities was a long list by the latter years of the game, and even early on there was still a healthy menu of choices.
Not sure why theme parkers are so against adding content that doesn't affect the game but just adds choices. Theme Parks are the flavor atm, but don't burn down the library at Alexandria just because you don't like to read.
LOL, it needs it big time yes! But will never happen.
This. Sadly the MMORPG genre, in regards to big money producers, is one-dimensional. It can only go into one direction and that is towards simplification.
I can speak for myself thanks. I have no need for you to put words in my mouth.
You guys are free to post as you will, the same as I will. As far as your contention about "moral highground", I view that as not going into other games forums to stir shit, and promote negative feelings towards others enjoyment.
The next time you wanna suggest what I should do, I think you should remember what forum you are actually in.
I have remembered what forum we are in, it's MMORPG.com, a general MMO forum, if you want to claim ownership of one of the sub-forums then I suggest you visit the official EA forum, however they are generally more negative than here so you might not be too happy, here on MMORPG.com they are not here to only host positive views about a game, in fact they support all views and the activity that generates earns them the dollars to continue. SWTOR obviously has retention problems due to its linear empty experience so a suggestion on how to broaden the game experience has its place on the SWTOR forum.
"Broaden the experience"....you ever heard of pitching the baby with the bathwater? Which is what your suggestion was.
The ship has sailed with a number of those folks that left. Yanking the game from those playing would ensure a total clusterfuck like that SWG mess that some individuals cant get over.
As far as ownership of a forum, I would say the folks bitching have ownership of this forum. I see very little in the way of what I would deem "discussion", and instead it is more akin to whining cause someone stole their candy......for yrs on end. TOR was never intended to be a sandbox, and they would be fools to make it one.
SO instead of actual discussion of things to make TOR better, we instead have thread 12047832 on the topic of "wah we wanted SWG 2". The reality of which is tsandboxes dont appeal to many, and no one in their right mind is going to spend AAA money to attract that crowd.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Comments
Well since it appears you are more concerned with TOR than the PTW scheme going on with GW2, lets clue you into reality shall we?
SWG held their NDA till either the weekend prior to launch, or the weekend before that. It was a steaming pile of shit. Bugged worse than Bethesda games, non functioning classes, and total lack of anything to do.
If you had been around during that time, you would understand just how big a mess it was. Hell we heard about it daily in EQ, and if you checked various sites, word was getting out even with the NDA in effect. Still those unaware bought a lot of boxes, yet SWG began plummeting the very first month.
Most gamers couldnt stand it. The RPers though had their stage. The most expensive MMO at that time, with nothing to show for it than big empty worlds. When I say big empty worlds, they were exactly that. I know there were no vehicles, and IIRC they didnt even have housing ready. A pitiful amount of varied PVE, but by golly Owen could sell ya the same armor ad nauseum.
You dont get 2 total revamps, on a game, when the subs are doing well.
SWG was the cement shoes for the sandbox MMO industry. That shit just doesnt float. It takes rose glasses to remember otherwise.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Who is mad....we got a Star Wars MMO. Pity you cant say the same.
The former subscribers you mention seem to be the same folks clamoring for sandboxes, on this very site, for many yrs now. You will have to forgive me if I look upon their wants, and laugh.
Every once in a while you will see a thread that hits the truth......no one wants to produce a sandbox for that niche of folks that enjoy them. If for some reason producers started making sandboxes, I simply wouldnt buy them.
I sure wouldnt spend my time bitching over one that had just launched. So who did you say is mad?
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I agree with tuning the game/fixing any issues.
However:
This isnt a sandbox.....fuck user created content. Devs create the content in a themepark. If they wanna stick the shit on the PVP side of the equation though, I have nothing to say about it.
Adding night/day, and NPCs that take care of tasks at given times would be a nice touch. Bringing the world to life so to speak. I wish they had added various skills that needed to be leveled up, but probably would be too much to put in at this point. Things such as 1 hand slash, 2 hand slash, defense, dodge, etc add to the depth IMO.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
SWTOR had more hype because there was more outlets to push it, unlike back in 2003 and before, when the internet was new and fresh. The more people who got to hear of it get to push it further, in a snowball effect. SWTOR had the biggest snowball, as the internet is more common place before its release.
I am gutted that I missed the Beta for SWG, because of the lack of hype. If I missed it then loads of other people would have missed it too. With SWTOR virtually EVERYONE knew it was coming.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
this is accurate, and the comparison is fail. You can't compare the two games in this aspect.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I can speak for myself thanks. I have no need for you to put words in my mouth.
You guys are free to post as you will, the same as I will. As far as your contention about "moral highground", I view that as not going into other games forums to stir shit, and promote negative feelings towards others enjoyment.
The next time you wanna suggest what I should do, I think you should remember what forum you are actually in.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I remember having this debate on the official TOR forums way before release, that's when some of us still had hope it might not turn into another wow clone. I thought the Star Wars fan base did not want the NGE so they would naturally be repelled by a WOW clone which would basically make it Sony NGE with a better skin. I think some industry insiders had this hard headed attitude that they were going to prove it wasn't their fault the NGE was a failure and that it was the players fault for not understanding their genious. Now maybe after round two of WOW clone failure they will finally stop shoving this down our throat. Dan Rubenfield is a representative of this attitude that, being a former NGE dev who perpetuates the myth that the NGE improved the game and that the players were just stupid for not understanding the pure genious of cloning WOW.
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/06/15/ex-star-wars-galaxy-designer-talks-nge/
So you can imagine when office management types like EA buy out a company, you think their going to listen to the players, or a few disgruntled ex developers and raider guilds, thats right they listened to a few ex developers for Sony and raider guilds and this is the polished final product of that attitude that for some reason players should be content with wow clones, that are cheaply made because they want to milk subs without any development cost and act astounded when the stupid players don't want to play thier trash. I for one am happy to be watching the second NGE 2.0 disaster be slowly flushed down the toilet where it belongs, just another soon to be FTP game trying to milk it for all it's worth so EA can break even, pathetic.
In your first sentence You show how clueless you are with the gw2 comment.
And tbh swg had more life than I've seen in this game if I don't take into account the first month. And I played swg til close. Lifeless planets? Even with a fraction of swtor numbers swg made the game feel more alive than swtor ever have
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
There is a whole shitstorm brewing about the P2W, so spare me the "how clueless" comments eh? I started EQ in Feb 01, and I sure dont ever remember what Anet pulling as being kosher.
While you are at it, you might as well keep the comments on how "alive" SWG felt to yourself. I ran across Tat, on Bria, during the CU era.....I know for a fact the areas were spattered with ghost towns. We wont even talk about the various bots spamming chat about Ent services. So if that is what is considered alive, I would hate to see dead. TOR may not have the atmosphere of an EQ, but as a game it towers over SWG.....subwise as well.
That is neither here nor there. MMORPG.com has a SWG forum.....use it if you wanna discuss that game, but dont come to this forum and expect the same reception. Some of us arent afraid to call a shitty game exactly that, and SWG sucked like no ones business. Which is why it is burnt n crispy....much like Uncle Owen.
Next time you wanna talk about clueless, lets remember that not a single sandbox has topped EQ during its prime. So coming into the number 2 subbed NA MMO, and carrying on about sandboxes is the shining epitome of being "clueless".
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
OK then by that rationale I am free to put words in your mouth as you can't tell me what to do either. I'll do it in bigger text this time. Thanks for permission.
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
I don't think you could really change what TOR is, you would have to do a lot more than they did with the NGE. I mean to unrail something, you would have to redesign most the planets just for starters...
I think TOR is what it is...For good (for some), and for bad (the others).
Any time you have to pay licensing for a IP, you are at greater risk, because not only do you have to meet regular profits, you also have to take the hit on the IP fees. If SWG was not licensed, it would still be around, and I honestly doubt it would of gotten the CU/NGE. I had never seen anyone change their product so drastically, and I would think it would be a witch hunt in a boardroom if someone brought it up...But that is the risk, when you do not control everything about your product.
So while I say I don't think they could really sandbox up TOR, if numbers/profit do not get to where they want with the release of the same types of content, I don't think you could rule out change, due to Lucas. The guy likes to tinker ( as evidence of him having a ton of different updates to the original trilogy, and SWG). If the numbers fall below 500k, the chances start to increase...Only time will tell.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
There is a storm brewing because people have jumped to a conclusion with no foundation to their argument. If you want to tell me how GW2 is P2W then fine, but dont just repeat rumour as if they're fact. especially as they are rumour made up by morons who are unable to back up their claims.
Dont call me clueless when you're talking about personal preferences though. i admit i prefer SWG and i admit that is my personal choice. The game even in its NGE form offered far more content and fun factor for me than SWTOR did. i'm sorry you found it dead, but from your comment it seems you werent playing at a great time, but i'm not going to say you're wrong as thats your personal experience, as my time in SWTOR is mine. Neither of them is fact.
The only thing i can say is fact is the situation regarding GW2 taht you commented on which is definitely not true as it stands now. The arguing over what was better SWTOR or SWG is like arguing over what car is better, Aston Martin or Porsche. Its personal preference.
As i already said they are 2 very different games. Personally i try to steer clear of comparing SWG & SWTOR but people will, and you cant say one person is right or wrong.
SWTOR needs work, that much is clear, but i wouldnt say it needs to change its direction completely and become sandbox.
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
ROTFLMAO@U!!
If you acually believe you can compare an MMO game release in 2003 to one released today you are totally delutional, and the truth has already been stated even if you are having a bit of a tough time dealing with it... post NGE SWG WAS a far better game than the piece of crap TOR is currently.
Whatever you say bud. In YOUR OPINION is was a better game. In my opinion SWG couldn't hold TOR's jock strap. Where is SWG again? Oh that's right, it's DEAD as all MMO's are that can't hold a decent subscription.
Mad Bro?
lol.......
Maybe an opinion, but it's one shared by an ever growing number of FORMER subscribers, and why are you interested in anyone holding anybodies jockstrap? You may have as many issues brewing as TOR...
/tsk
Who is mad....we got a Star Wars MMO. Pity you cant say the same.
The former subscribers you mention seem to be the same folks clamoring for sandboxes, on this very site, for many yrs now. You will have to forgive me if I look upon their wants, and laugh.
Every once in a while you will see a thread that hits the truth......no one wants to produce a sandbox for that niche of folks that enjoy them. If for some reason producers started making sandboxes, I simply wouldnt buy them.
I sure wouldnt spend my time bitching over one that had just launched. So who did you say is mad?
You plainly don't like sandboxes and seem to feel that the majority backs you, so the sandbox people need to shut up, admit their inferiority, and kiss your ass.
I can't help but wonder if you are just trying to bait someone into arguing with you. That's how baseless your furor is. The market is supporting you, why not take the moral highground and state your points.
I can speak for myself thanks. I have no need for you to put words in my mouth.
You guys are free to post as you will, the same as I will. As far as your contention about "moral highground", I view that as not going into other games forums to stir shit, and promote negative feelings towards others enjoyment.
The next time you wanna suggest what I should do, I think you should remember what forum you are actually in.
I have remembered what forum we are in, it's MMORPG.com, a general MMO forum, if you want to claim ownership of one of the sub-forums then I suggest you visit the official EA forum, however they are generally more negative than here so you might not be too happy, here on MMORPG.com they are not here to only host positive views about a game, in fact they support all views and the activity that generates earns them the dollars to continue. SWTOR obviously has retention problems due to its linear empty experience so a suggestion on how to broaden the game experience has its place on the SWTOR forum.I think we should all look at Bioware/TOR in a different light so to speak. Let's remember, Bioware's main gaming model will always be SP games. To me, it's the reason why TOR turned out the way it is and that's probably not gonna change unless they have a total change in direction if they make a ME mmo.
It looks like they played it very safe and took the least amount of risk when they made TOR. It looks and feels very much like KOTOR 3. Everyone knows that in SP pc /console games the profit is made on the initial box sales and not long term sale models. TOR fits that bill perfectly and i think that Bioware and EA wanted it that way.
TOR is light on mmo and heavy on SPRPG coop systems. This was done on purpose, and not a mistake that some people think was made by Bioware. I really think they bet, that when the dust cleared after launch, that the majority of players were people that loved the SP KOTOR style of gaming and were gonna play the game as such, reach the end of the story and then either stay interested enough to pay a sub or unsub and wait until the next big content and continuence of their story is released. This is also, i believe the reason they said that they can make a profit with only a few hundred thousand subs.
They knew that the game being so light on the mmo side would only keep most of those players in the game for a very short time, and they would move on after the intial 30 or 60 days. They were never the main target audience in my opinion.
So yea, their not gonna NGE TOR or do anything but continue to add a few fluff things here and there. They will keep adding in more of the end level gear stuff to try and keep the mmo players happy that continue to play, but they will never change the core of what TOR really is. This way, if the game really does make a sharp downward turn and starts to totally flake out, Bioware/EA can go into total maintanence mode or shut it down, because they have already made their initial investment back and are in profit mode already.
If some don't think that they already have made their investment back, just put the numbers to it. They sold 2 million pre-orders, that combines box and digital. Now were not talking about the CE, i'm just using the $60.00 version. You add that up and just in initial pre-orders sales, they grossed 120 million. So, if you use just the 3 month period and take the $15.00 and times that by the 1.7 million they say they have subbed up, you get a 25 miilion dollar a month or another 75 million in those 3 months. Which put the total take at, 195 million and that's not factoring in people who subbed up for 6 months or all those that bought the CE. So, right now, they can go on and bleed subs, but in the end they will have turned a profit on TOR.
This is all my opinion , but to me, it does look like this is the route they have taken. In the end, i just didn't get the SW mmorpg that i really wanted, other's did and you just have to move on hoping that one day there will be another.
I would think they don't get the full $60 for each sale as distributors and retailers need to take their slice, I would think they get say $40 a piece so that's 80m if you assume at the end of the free month 1.5m subs that's 22m, if you assume 1.2m at the end of month 2 that's 18m, if you assume 1m at the end of month 3 that's 15m so we have 135m vs costs of 200m.
Obviously, until EA lease their actual sub figures for their Financial figures next month no one knows what the situation is, but it is not a given that they have covered their profits, especially with all indicators signalling falling subs.SWG is dead. Long live SWTOR!
SWTOR if fine the way it is. Let those that hate it, continue to hate it.
Let those that enjoy it, continue to play it.
"Don't corpse-camp that idea. Its never gonna rez"
Bladezz (The Guild)
Yeah, it's a funny idea, and I would like to see it, in principle. But it seems like it would be easier for BW to try to perfect/improve their themepark than to allocate resources to adding sandbox elements. They don't seem to know much about themeparks, and I bet they know even less about sandbox.
Seems like BW don't have much experience with MMORPGs to begin with and they're learning through trial and error to get their themepark right with SWTOR. I can't imagine how it would be if they set out to make their game more successful by "sandboxing things up." It seems like BW would have zero sandbox competence.
Well put. The game is doing just fine from where I'm sitting. The people that hate it will always hate it no matter what Bioware does to the game short of NGEing it, whiich will NEVER happen.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
OP, hell no. There was nothing to do in SWG.
People screaming for Sandbox have no idea what they ask for. All sandbox games to date failed hard. It will be the same for all upcoming sandbox games.
eqnext.wikia.com
good post, and I didn't consider the idea that they did what they did purposefully and with the intent of carving a new niche (SP MMO). The only thing I wonder about though is actions like the guild summit, and continued lip service to regular MMO features designed to enthuse those who group. On the other hand, I can't think of any sandbox style content that has been mentioned as a coming feature as mentioned by BW.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
Having trouble understanding how you can say there was nothing to do in SWG. Do you mean there was nothing that interested you to do in SWG? Because the options for activities was a long list by the latter years of the game, and even early on there was still a healthy menu of choices.
Not sure why theme parkers are so against adding content that doesn't affect the game but just adds choices. Theme Parks are the flavor atm, but don't burn down the library at Alexandria just because you don't like to read.
Survivor of the great MMORPG Famine of 2011
This. Sadly the MMORPG genre, in regards to big money producers, is one-dimensional. It can only go into one direction and that is towards simplification.
My gaming blog
"Broaden the experience"....you ever heard of pitching the baby with the bathwater? Which is what your suggestion was.
The ship has sailed with a number of those folks that left. Yanking the game from those playing would ensure a total clusterfuck like that SWG mess that some individuals cant get over.
As far as ownership of a forum, I would say the folks bitching have ownership of this forum. I see very little in the way of what I would deem "discussion", and instead it is more akin to whining cause someone stole their candy......for yrs on end. TOR was never intended to be a sandbox, and they would be fools to make it one.
SO instead of actual discussion of things to make TOR better, we instead have thread 12047832 on the topic of "wah we wanted SWG 2". The reality of which is tsandboxes dont appeal to many, and no one in their right mind is going to spend AAA money to attract that crowd.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.