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Loving how endgame is at lvl 1.
Theonenoni
Member Posts: 279
People who have played Guild Wars 1 for more than a year will feel right at home. People who raid will probably dislike and never play again.
Guild Wars 1 was about skill and knowledge. Guild Wars 2 is looking the same. Gear does matter but not in the way the MMO "raiders" think. All soldiers max armor value is 80, Scholars 60, Adventurers 70 and cant get any higher without the help of insginias.
Same for weapons there will be a max dmg value that will not get any higher for example, a weapon that you find in lvl 80 open world does as much damage as a weapon that you can find in an elite dungeon. Its all about the skins and bonuses.
People who want raiding just cant get these facts in their heads. They want to be powerful because they did a raid a thousand times. In GW2 you can do a dungeon as many times as you want at max lvl and get loot but you wont get any more powerful in terms of dmg or armor value on the items you get. You will however get cool skins.
There are color codes for rarity which means the weapon or armor may have more stats on it but not a higher numerical dmg or armor value.
There is a plateau of power. Raiders dont understand. All I can say is play Guild Wars 1. You hit max level , armor value is max easily, max dmg is on you weapons. Runes, weapon mods, insignias, define the playstyle. As far as prophecies went you hit lvl 20 about halfway through the content.
In Guild Wars 2 dynamic events make content infinite since they are repeatable. The Shatterer for instance comes back every now and then and each time you beat it you get some loot.
Don't worry there is always something to do in Guild Wars 2 wether it be dungeons, dynamic events, pvp, crafting, auctioning, role-playing. I guess you gotta immerse your own fantasy in stale MMOs these days. Funny how all these MMOs claim to be RPGs. Not an ounce of roleplaying in any of them really except for SwTor and now GW2. just because a game has leveling in it does not make it an RPG.
-I am here to perform logic
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Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
It's more like Endgame PvP starts at Level 2. Endgame PvE Starts at Level 35, but I understand what you're getting at OP.
The game will be fun throughout and if you enjoyed the game during levelling, then you'll enjoy the game after levelling. If you try to treat levelling as a mere stepping-stone, to get to the good stuff, chances are you will be disappointed. In the end I know I will have tons of fun with this game.
which is exactly why all those examples of experience potions in the shop are nonsense because rushing to the end game in this game is missing the entire point of the game. "It's the journey that matters, not the destination" comes to mind.
GW2 really seems like it was tailored exactly to my tastes
I never raid in MMOs, as I didnt have that time to do so and even if I tried I got bored extremely quickly
I am a passionate explorer - games like oblivion and skyrim are what I like best: free roaming and accidentally come across interesting stuff - GW2 does exactly that with its dynamic events AND hidden puzzles (that was a complete and unexpected absolut #1 insta buy feature)
I prefer skill > time as I am usually good at PvP games (Im not saying Im pro, Im just saying Im usually better at games than my friends are) ..guild wars with its WvWvW and nice to get into ladder system in constructed PvP is exactly what I am looking four
I enjoy massive battles with consequences : And I got WvWvW in GW2, yay!!
I enjoy skill swaps in games and hybrid classes...GW2 is full of it haha
And I enjoy an interesting storyline with different outcomes because Im an altaholic (thats why witcher's storyline is simply better for me than skyrim's was) : GW2 and its branching based on race/class/biography/orders you join is a welcomed adition for me
I dont like monthly subs (call me a skinflint, I dont mind
)
All in all
Let the 10th April already come god damn it!
edit: Seems like I got seriously sidetracked
what I wanted to say is that I enjoy "leveling" exploring and roleplaying much more that repeating one dungeon over and over again to be the coolest guy in the town
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
That's what I don't like abput some people. They see, that the game is different from what they used to and they realise, that game is not for them. But for some reason they continue to whine about it and ask to start the development from the very beginning and do it as they want it to.
@OP, you're absolutely right. People didn't like GW1 because they couldn't get more powerful. People didn't like GW1 because you had a limited skill bar. These can be (and most likely are) major deal-breakers for a lot of people. GW1 was more appealing to RPG players and non-MMO players. Most MMO players despised the idea of limited skill bar and level playing field.
In a sense GW2 adopts a lot from GW1 and it's not a completely different game which seems to be what most people think. If you take out the persistent world, the game philosophy is the same.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
I really hope I can enjoy Guild Wars 2 for a long time to come - but I am worried.
The PvP I'm sure I will, not too into PvP in other MMOs because of things like level disparity and everything being about gear - something I don't have to worry about in GW2.
But the PvE, I am sure I will love the level up process but I like raiding and gearing up, getting better stats etc.
It's the only reason I still play WoW.
Started out in MMOs that didn't have levels and gear though, so I'm hoping GW2 can reawaken the things I loved about the old games I played.
But can it break me from the gear/raid mold I currently find myself enjoying?
We'll see!
You describe it like an "Open World Instance", Sorta like an instance dungeon set on repeat for any level. I don't know about you but I get sick of doing instances after 4 or 5 goes at it.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Well Spock you can do what I'm doing. I enjoy raiding myself, and have developed some really close friends thanks to it. I raid in RIFT atm, and plan on continue raiding even when GW2 is released. Will my time be limited, for sure, but I only plan to play GW2 for about an hour a day anyways so its a win win.
I absolutely agree with every word of the OP. Why cant we just play to get challenged by our skills, not our grinded items? It will be hell of a fun to find and acquire all those skills points, progress through my personal story and see different twists by helping others. They are giving everything a RPG wants, but lately MMO players are not awere that they are playing an onlineRPG after all.
+1 OP. you highlighted some of the main reasons im so stoked about this game.
Without continual progression in the power of your character (through either skills, levels, abilities, gear, territory control etc) you really don't have an MMORPG, which is exactly how I felt about GW1 and am starting to think GW2 is going to turn out.
I realize for some folks collecting cosmetics, acheivements, titles etc are a form of progression, but if it doesn't involve continously striving to improve your character's actual power, it's not likely to hold my interest for long.
And that's OK, there's some other titles out there more to my liking, and I'm sure GW2 will be good for 2 or 3 months of fun, which is what I got out of the first game.
One might argue that rather than say endgame is at level 1, GW2 really doesn't have an endgame at all.
There is a difference.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hmmm...I'm not sure "infinite" means what you think it means.
That's the only thing I'm afraid of too. It's the same reason why I don't play FPS that much, the lack of character progression. I just hope GW2 offers some kind of character progression at endgame, or that the PvP is incredibly fun to make up for it.
While I understand your point and agree in some aspects, let me counter-
I at multiple times throughout my time playing WoW was totally "maxed out" in terms of progression through level, abilities, gear.
So what did I do to remain entertained? Acheivements, cosmetics, collecting, etc.
Now, was it different because I knew there was always another Tier coming with new content and continued progression?
Maybe it was.
Will it change the perception if you know "this is it" once you hit max?
Will the achievements, cosmetics, collecting be enough?
You might be right....
Joking aside....
Not really sure if the OP is joking or if they're serious.
The more important point of upgrading your gear is to increase your stats. So....this isn't any different. Just because your weapon damage peaks, doesn't mean you can't do more or less damage depending on your stats. There's still going to be a gear grind because of this.
I can also assure you that endgame PvE won't begin at level 1. If it's anything like GW 1 you don't start off with all of your spells/abilities unlocked. You're also still going to need to probably at least max out your weapon damage and armor.
Hmm....still sounds like a pretty normal MMO to me. The only difference might be that gear is -LESS- important, but it still plays a role and will still give someone an edge. Even if that edge means I do 10 more damage to you; I still have an edge. You can't make a piece of gear super rare and hard to find and have it be the same as any random piece of crap. It'd piss people off.
But in that case is really any modern mmo a RPG?
In P&P your character always will improve as you play, and not by gear but with new abilities and skills. Sometimes with gear but I played campaigns for years with only my start gear. Warhammer fantasy RPG and Werewolf are both good examples on this, in werewolf I didn't gain a single item during 5 years of gameplay, but I became really powerful anyways.
In modern mmos you only improve for the first 3 weeks or so, then you just get new gear.
I play mainly sandbox games to avoid gear depending games or lvling. But after seeing Yogscast videos of GW2 im intrested in this game. I play for fun i dont play game for numbers or uber items and noway its work.
Fun and interesting mob/boss fights and it seems GW2 have those plenty. Ill leave the raiding and all who think games are going 2 work to blizzard boys in WoW and soon ultimate working game hack&slash diablo.
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Define modern.
EVE is most definitely a MMORPG of infinite progression, no matter how long you play if you have one avatar you will never run out of advancement to your avatar's "power".
DAOC was a lot like this back in the day. Sure, there were some hardcore folks (handful) who managed to make Realm Rank 10/10, but in my case I never came close, RR 7 was as far as i ever got and they eventually pushed the RR's up to 12 or even 15 i think.
Lineage 1 did it with levels, there was no level cap, however they redoubled the experience from level 49 onwards. Meaning to go from 49 to 50 took as much exp as it took to get from 1-49.
Add in the fact you lost explevels from dying, even in sieges and I frequently found myself reset back to 42 or 43 from my peak of 49. (never made 50)
So it's possible to keep the advancement going forward (I find gear grinding to be one of the worst however, but that's just me)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Most of them are these days (EVE a notable exception), but to solve a problem why speed up this progression even further by basically eliminating it? I would love to play an MMO that took years to level up, with meaningful gameplay throughout the leveling process. GW2 would be truly innovative in this respect if they chose that route. Basically they punted on that aspect.
I agree with the earlier poster that a bulk of the fun in a traditional RPG is to see the growth of your character over time. GW2 is basically making the same mistake Oblivion did by autoscaling everything so basically progression is meaningless.
If I want pure esport I prefer FPSers. I like the notion that hard work and effort are actually rewarded and gameplay mechanics change over time. Maybe this month I get that new spell or combo! I don't see it as grind I see it as reward.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
You did better than I did. I was never able to reach maximum gear in WOW because I never completed every single dungeon.
But i was in the middle of AQ 40 with my guild when BC's first content was rolled out (for free right before launch) and I realized that they were setting up a gear grinding machine where the next level of gear completely invalidated your past progression (had not experienced this same phenomenon in my previous titles of Lineage 1/2, DAOC, and SB) and immediately jumped off the WOW train.
When GW1 came out, I had some fun, but reaching level 20 almost immediately, and then easily collecting far more PVP skills than I ever had a use for (only 8 per bar at a time) made me weary of it quite quickly.
W/O the continual character progression (in terms of actual power) I just couldn't stay with it.
Same thing happens to me now, I was playing Rift, hit 50, not interested in raiding anymore, had to quit. I'm purposely holding off on hitting 50 in SWTOR because its the same thing, no reason to play after I get there.
I have some hopes for Terra, not because of the progression curve but because they might have some sort of castle/siege system which is what I really favor in my MMO endgame, territory control, probably the most fun thing of all.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
How can you say weapons and armor don't matter?
So what if they have a max dmg and defense? Thats really only the base of an item.
No matter how you wanna put it but if i get 2 swords both 80 dmg but but one of them has additional crit hit chance 25% Life Leech 50% and for good measure ability recast -50% its not hard to see what weapon would be far superior.(same thing for armor)
The bonuses i gave the sword now are of course way to high and prolly will never be on a weapon but i just wanted to make my point clear here attack and defense really is only the core of an item the added stats can make an item far superior and if we will get such items as instance drops or not will have to be seen.
But that's not how GW works. You will not find more powerful items because: A) dmg and defense max out and B)there is a max number of stats you can have on an item (e.g. every item can't have more than 6 stats) and C) every single stat is capped. so if life leech caps at 25%, you will never find another item with 30% life leech. So it's a matter of finding the right combination but you will not progress in item power.
In GW/GW2 stats don't go up. They max out early and you can easily get the best stats right away. The number of stats an item can have is also fixed.
So no your weapons and armour will not get better. You will have an option of choosing the most suitable for you stat combination but you will not get more powerful items similar to other MMOs. You will not constantly get +1 to stat x, + 2 to stat y.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
SOunds like a fun video game. However, RP it will not be. You cannot have lore in a game where the same classes and races kill each other. Age of Conan tried to feed the public with that shortyly before they went free to play. It is however a fun looking game -but that's all it is and has no intrinsic mmorpg value. If that doesn't make sense to you then either you work for the company or you're just wanting this to be more than it is.
Personally, I'm looking forward to its release so I can read carbon copy statements that were released about SW:ToR. Then we can all move on and hope for a real mmorpg down the road.
can you explain this? and just in case this clears that up. There is NO open world PVP. The PVP is only in PVP specified BGs and the world v world area.