Welcome to the new generation OP where people want to be equal without actually putting the time in and its not just MMOs its our culture now. Kids in the last decade have been raised to believe they're winners even if the team lost 20 years ago when I played football, baseball, hockey, basketball we were not given trophys for losing. What this has to do with MMOs ? The culture people want without actually having to do anything to get it.
Lets use your own sports analogy. Did you get any advantages over other team the more you played apart from experience. No you didn't. You didn't get steel plated protection in american football the longer you played. You didn't have 3 men on the plates every batting round by default. The hoop wasn't automatically lowered for the team that had played longer.
No quite the opposite it was all even. GW2 structured PvP is exactly like sports where experience and tactics will decide the winner, not counting that slice of luck that is involved also.
It's not that people want things handed to them. It's that people want a fair fight and have skill determine who wins and not who played the longest.
One of the selling points of this game is that people don't have to keep playing it and can easily put it aside without it costing a cent. So what will keep people playing is the fun factor. Does that mean other games don't have a fun factor? Not at all, but they often try to keep you playing even after the factor has gone down for fear of falling behind.
Originally posted by blayugs Originally posted by DeserttFoxx From what i understand so far, gear means nothing in Guild wars 2, in both pvp and pve. So that means if you spend hours farming items you wont be better then a dude who say.. just created his character and was boosted to level 80. Gathering nodes are for everyone, so that means everyone can gather from a single node once before it goes away. So i ask, is time spent playing the game not rewarded? When gear doesnt matter at all, how is it any different then playing call of duty or any other fps game? Why are we doing dungeons if the gear you aquire doesnt matter at all? Please for the love of fucking christ, stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. I think if i spend 40 hours a week farming dungeons while some guy logs on for 2 hours a day just to explore, /dance on a mail box and maybe pvp for 30minutes before he goes for his dinner with the wife and kids, we should not be equal. It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest. Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?
I feel sorry for you if you think that 40 hours a week infront of a computer screen should be more rewarding than a wife and kids. I love the sound of the system that they have created and when it becomes available for release I plan to play for fun
I think you slightly misunderstood him about whats more rewarding hehe
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I'm not sure why you think fun is such a bad reason to play a game? Maybe I'm not part of the generation that gets home from work to log into a game where all they do is more work.
And gear in GW2 does affect your play in a substantial way, it just doesn't make you stronger than anyone else.
Fun is subjective and i am really getting tired of people assuming that only because people like raiding they are surely not having fun and just working in a game. How do you know this generation of gamer is not having fun? or fun is exclusive to GW2 only?
I didn't say raiders don't have fun. I objected to the OPs point that fun can only be had through running the gear treadmill.
According to the OPs argument, people shouldn't be able to enjoy football, because they don't get better shoes after each match. And snowboarders shouldn't enjoy riding, because they don't get a better board after each ride.
Welcome to the new generation OP where people want to be equal without actually putting the time in and its not just MMOs its our culture now. Kids in the last decade have been raised to believe they're winners even if the team lost 20 years ago when I played football, baseball, hockey, basketball we were not given trophys for losing. What this has to do with MMOs ? The culture people want without actually having to do anything to get it.
Here's my question though.
Will the aspect of just playing for fun keep millions of people playing this game ? I doubt it.
The OP has a point that the GW fans ignore and don't even respond to. People need an incentive to do things. Why do you go to work everyday ? Because you get paid to do it. The same could be said why do people raid in WOW or Rift or SWTOR because they're getting something for doing it. Doing it for fun is a copout because you dont know if the game will be fun a month after launch or how long it will last before it gets repetitive.
Me personally I log on and PVP in games with friends and that makes it fun enough it doesnt matter what game im playing if im doing it with people I like and its the same for gear grinds if im doing it with my guild or friends it doesnt feel like a grind at all. That is what this generation has cost us the social aspect of games the needed grouping/guilding to get things done the need to make friends and not be an ass to everyone you meet because you dont need them to do what you want. It's not gonna change anytime soon EQ Next will be a casual farmville MMO where you can get everything done by yourself.
So I can only cut down you sentiment here in two assumptions:
1. Guildwars 2 will not offer trophy's to achieve.
False, it actually offers more genuine trophies than most other MMOs. Why? Because the trophies are actually trophies and are not required to play the game. it is a status symbol, just what a trophy is supossed to be. Herefore, some trophies can be made much harder to get, because there arn't required to play. People can't complain the content is to hard if it doesn't give them any disadvantage. Have you heard the press whining about the dungeons being so haaaarddd. They have, and this is good. The dungeons will be difficult, and for you to get the trophy, you need to use your skill and experience, which, in real life, is also the requirement to achieve throphies.
2.Trophies should give power that will give an advantage. So when I have won the Fifa world cup, all players of the team should be giving magical power that will give them an advantage over the other team that do not have won the world cup.
Do you realize how silly this sounds?
What I get from your post is that you don't want REAL trophies, but rather trophies that are actually nothign but power enhancers. Real trophies arn't worhwhile to you and don't give you incentive to play the game. Explain to me how a tedious grind/ very hard content for special FLUFF gear is anything less progressive or less of an achievement than POWERFULL gear? The time spent on it and the exclusiveness of the achievement are still the same, the only thing is that it doesn't give you a SILLY AND UNFAIR ADVANTAGE over other players. Skill should determine who wins, don't you agree, mister sportsman?
Yeah you do.. but then again, i played codmw3 for a months and i still only use the mp5.. which is a starter weapon...
Which is an example of gear not mattering.
The problem is, fps games are shallow and get stale pretty fast,that was the whole reason i even got started in the MMO genre, i like the idea of taking months to finish a character, not days. I fail to see how getting gear and levels faster is better for the genre.
Once you blow through all the content, then what happens?
Its all about how you use your MP5 not about amount of damage it makes after you played for months. Boosting is like a bonus, its not the main goal.
About COD and other FPS: Ive played UT2004 on clanbase, for summer cup, then for spring cup, then for Nations cup. etc etc etc. Instagib mod - only one weapon, one hit and you are dead, but it was fun, it was like a sport. Many people still play CS1.6 even if its very very old, guess why? Because its fun and they don't need 20 new weapons or 1000 maps every year.
By playing all the time you perfect your skills not your gun. Why I need to go through Wow Raids 1000 times to get that one lucky drop? Guess why DKP system exist? So someone who spends 1000h will get at least something. Now why would I have to spend 1000h to get purple pixels, when all that matters should be my SKILLS, JUST LIKE IN REAL WORLD (football for example).
And the last one... Once you blow through all the content... WHAT? WHAT? BLOW? The whole point of MMO is to LIVE AND INTERACT in that WORLD not to BLOW through..
Man I got one advice for ya, buy the game, play the game and enjoy it while you have fun... thats the reason to play games...to escape reality and be someone/something in alternative reality.. Its not about blowing or getting best possible gear, its about being part of community and tackling difficulties together.. Besides that there is Dynamic Events, so you will always have to do something.
It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest.
[Mod Edit]
damn straight it's for fun.
see, the thing raiding elitists (i hesitate to say "such as yourself" but that would probably be apt, judging by your post) don't understand is gear does not equal skill, but time always equals gear. if you spend your 40 hours a week on the game, you're bound to get into a few raids regardless of your skill. so you're bound to up your gear to the point where, in most games, it will win over skill 80% of the time when the opponent is under-geared. or, in raiding pve terms, guarantees you get chosen for raiding over someone who hasn't had the time to get partially or fully geared.
this has created and promoted an elitist and exclusive attitude in most mmos which makes a HUGE gap between "casual" gamers and "raiders".
gw2 is aiming to bridge that gap by reducing your dependance on gear and making you focus on your supposed skill. because, if you have skill, then you surely would like a challenge. i know i do! i want to be challenged! i don't want to steamroll content just because i got big lootz! who would? that's lazy and boring.
having content scale is an awesome example of this. that you can't ever go back to lower levels and feel OP is brilliant.
you, sir, need to face the fact that gear is not skill, and never should be. i think that's why gw2 is scaring so many raiders. now, instead of relying on uber loot they got for having the time to do the biggest dungeons, they'll have to rely on - shock horror - this mystical skill they have always claimed to possess.
and yes, all you should need is appearance. it will be enough to tell everyone about your skill.
why should you have a majic IWIN button for completing a raid?
Will the aspect of just playing for fun keep millions of people playing this game ? I doubt it.
If it stops being fun after a while, why should they keep playing?
Exactly, why should you play *anything* if its not fun? Gear? Statistical advantage over others?
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Malaksbane
Since when is fun or having a good time not a reward?
Not sure, but you will find it difficult to motivate players to do much of anything unless rewards are involved.
Don't remember the phenomenon being as widespread before WoW, but it's possible my memory is faulty.
Rewards are involved, just not statistical rewards.
To OP:
Its not subscription based game so they dont have to include mindless time-sinks that bear promise of fun sometime in the future to keep you subscribed, you engage in tme-sinks if you want to and for - fun - if you find it fun.
From what i understand so far, gear means nothing in Guild wars 2, in both pvp and pve. So that means if you spend hours farming items you wont be better then a dude who say.. just created his character and was boosted to level 80. Gathering nodes are for everyone, so that means everyone can gather from a single node once before it goes away.
So i ask, is time spent playing the game not rewarded? When gear doesnt matter at all, how is it any different then playing call of duty or any other fps game? Why are we doing dungeons if the gear you aquire doesnt matter at all?
Please stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. I think if i spend 40 hours a week farming dungeons while some guy logs on for 2 hours a day just to explore, /dance on a mail box and maybe pvp for 30minutes before he goes for his dinner with the wife and kids, we should not be equal.
It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest.
Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?
[Mod Edit]
Then fucking stick with WoW, SWTOR, Rift or any other themepark treadmill MMO where it's not about skill but about who has better gear. ANet has always been a skill based game, if you fucking suck at the game guess what? Your gonna get you ass handed to in the game unlike WoW or SWTOR where you can faceroll through content.
GW2 will NEVER be about "ohh I spend more time than you I'm more LEET" epeen fueling. Any grinding will ALWAYS be for cosmetic/autheistic effects.
Now you do need some grinding to unlock skills and there will be some grinding for max stats geat which is on the assumption you don't get max stats gear as you are lvling.
I wish people would stop making pointless threads who are completely ignorant about the philosophies of ANet.
Its all about how you use your MP5 not about amount of damage it makes after you played for months. Boosting is like a bonus, its not the main goal.
About COD and other FPS: Ive played UT2004 on clanbase, for summer cup, then for spring cup, then for Nations cup. etc etc etc. Instagib mod - only one weapon, one hit and you are dead, but it was fun, it was like a sport. Many people still play CS1.6 even if its very very old, guess why? Because its fun and they don't need 20 new weapons or 1000 maps every year.
By playing all the time you perfect your skills not your gun. Why I need to go through Wow Raids 1000 times to get that one lucky drop? Guess why DKP system exist? So someone who spends 1000h will get at least something. Now why would I have to spend 1000h to get purple pixels, when all that matters should be my SKILLS, JUST LIKE IN REAL WORLD (football for example).
And the last one... Once you blow through all the content... WHAT? WHAT? BLOW? The whole point of MMO is to LIVE AND INTERACT in that WORLD not to BLOW through..
Man I got one advice for ya, buy the game, play the game and enjoy it while you have fun... thats the reason to play games...to escape reality and be someone/something in alternative reality.. Its not about blowing or getting best possible gear, its about being part of community and tackling difficulties together.. Besides that there is Dynamic Events, so you will always have to do something.
Well said.
For some reason many people seems to only continue playing if they are bribed to play instead of playing for fun.
If you don't have fun you are just wasting your time anyways, no amount of gear will change that.
Of course the gambling people who only have fun when they are rolling for raid gear wont get anything out of this game but frankly do they have almost all MMOs to choose from so I don't feel sorry for them.
Its all about how you use your MP5 not about amount of damage it makes after you played for months. Boosting is like a bonus, its not the main goal.
About COD and other FPS: Ive played UT2004 on clanbase, for summer cup, then for spring cup, then for Nations cup. etc etc etc. Instagib mod - only one weapon, one hit and you are dead, but it was fun, it was like a sport. Many people still play CS1.6 even if its very very old, guess why? Because its fun and they don't need 20 new weapons or 1000 maps every year.
By playing all the time you perfect your skills not your gun. Why I need to go through Wow Raids 1000 times to get that one lucky drop? Guess why DKP system exist? So someone who spends 1000h will get at least something. Now why would I have to spend 1000h to get purple pixels, when all that matters should be my SKILLS, JUST LIKE IN REAL WORLD (football for example).
And the last one... Once you blow through all the content... WHAT? WHAT? BLOW? The whole point of MMO is to LIVE AND INTERACT in that WORLD not to BLOW through..
Man I got one advice for ya, buy the game, play the game and enjoy it while you have fun... thats the reason to play games...to escape reality and be someone/something in alternative reality.. Its not about blowing or getting best possible gear, its about being part of community and tackling difficulties together.. Besides that there is Dynamic Events, so you will always have to do something.
Well said.
For some reason many people seems to only continue playing if they are bribed to play instead of playing for fun.
If you don't have fun you are just wasting your time anyways, no amount of gear will change that.
Of course the gambling people who only have fun when they are rolling for raid gear wont get anything out of this game but frankly do they have almost all MMOs to choose from so I don't feel sorry for them.
In the end its just a bunch of pixels that you see on your monitor, its not the item that matters its the emotions it gives to you. Its a simulation, developer gives us a picture and its up to our BRAIN to tie it all together and get positive emotions out of it.
Arenanet are doing everything right, even with everything they showed there will be always someone who will complain, human nature.. Looking forward to kill these guys in GW2 instead of posting replying to them here. I mean I'm really shocked to see threads like this and threads like "GW2 gfx are already outdated"... WHAT? :O
From what i understand so far, gear means nothing in Guild wars 2, in both pvp and pve. So that means if you spend hours farming items you wont be better then a dude who say.. just created his character and was boosted to level 80.
So i ask, is time spent playing the game not rewarded? When gear doesnt matter at all, how is it any different then playing call of duty or any other fps game? Why are we doing dungeons if the gear you aquire doesnt matter at all?
Please stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks.
Well it's personal preference. Personally, I'm in favour of games where player skill, cooperation and experience matters, not grinding for gear and other stuff. More like sports where equipment is basically the same but players make all the difference. And not only in PvP but also PvE.
Of course some unfortunate people are forced to persue not so worthwhile activities to house and feed their families. Why they would want to join the same rat race (aptly named) in their games is completely beyond me.
The grind for gear that EQ introduced and WoW personified + 'P2W' that was kind of stolen from collectable card games is a real minority thing.
Most games do not reward time (you don't get extra pawns for winning in chess, or more trumps in cards). Same is true on the pay to win side even with sports having the best gear is a negligible advantage. My grandfather was a keen golfer he used to carry a single wood, 3 irons and a putter (he could dispense with any one of those at a pinch) and still beat another scratch golfer 9 out of 10 times.
EQ (which did not even bother to hide the grind 'camping' for gear) and WoW (which perfected the art of keeping the hamsters running in the wheel) have addled peoples minds and gave rise to 'elitist jerkism'.
Of course one has to wonder what the player (not character) skill cap is like on GW2 but that is a different matter.
play dark souls and say it is not rewarding when you beat a boss, or a bunch of mobs without getting hit.
but like others are saying its a personal thing. some might meh at the fact there is no loot whilst others feel acomplished for actually conquering a certain stage withing a game whether it is mmo or regular games.
Please stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. I think if i spend 40 hours a week farming dungeons while some guy logs on for 2 hours a day just to explore, /dance on a mail box and maybe pvp for 30minutes before he goes for his dinner with the wife and kids, we should not be equal.
It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest.
Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?
[Mod Edit]
I suppose you are not from the generation that does things for the sake of doing them. At least in games perhaps? Not sure. I think games have always had some sort of rewards tied to difficult tasks. Then again, I do recall a time where people weren't rewarded for everything they did.
I agree with the GW attitude that your accomplishments are your rewards. It really is a different paradigm but one that I think is ultimately more fulfilling.
However, it seems that you are still into "playing barbie" as you want your different gear . You just want it to so that you can stand in the middle of town and people see your gear and know that it's "bad ass" and of course that you worked for it. But you are still into the idea of having that gear that differentiates you from others and people will recognize it by its look.
You want the Ball Gown of 100 strength while others wear the frocks medicroty, no?
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Please stop saying for fun. maybe i am not apart of the generation that find everyone being equal all the time to be fun. I think if i spend 40 hours a week farming dungeons while some guy logs on for 2 hours a day just to explore, /dance on a mail box and maybe pvp for 30minutes before he goes for his dinner with the wife and kids, we should not be equal.
It seems like the concensus i am getting from all these news videos are, people love the idea of everything being equal, and the only diversity comes from costume looks. Im not sure when MMOs became about playing barbie, but i want to do a lot more then just dress of my character to set myself apart from the rest.
Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?
[Mod Edit]
I suppose you are not from the generation that does things for the sake of doing them. At least in games perhaps? Not sure. I think games have always had some sort of rewards tied to difficult tasks. Then again, I do recall a time where people weren't rewarded for everything they did.
I agree with the GW attitude that your accomplishments are your rewards. It really is a different paradigm but one that I think is ultimately more fulfilling.
However, it seems that you are still into "playing barbie" as you want your different gear . You just want it to so that you can stand in the middle of town and people see your gear and know that it's "bad ass" and of course that you worked for it. But you are still into the idea of having that gear that differentiates you from others and people will recognize it by its look.
You want the Ball Gown of 100 strength while others wear the frocks medicroty, no?
I know that I'm looking forward to "playing barbie". The fact that my gear will be as strong as that of the next guy makes me even happier. About people doing things for the sake of doing, I noticed that when I started playing WoW. That was my first MMORPG, so I don't know the situation before that. In vanilla WoW you had to read the quests to see where you could find the stuff to kill/gather/escort/etc. Yet, there were always some people who just shouted in /1 for the coordinates. That struck me as lazy. Just rushing to the endgame. Why not read the quest text (not that long, those 20 lines -_-) to look where you need to go? Else you could just skim the text for the direction and head off towards it. It's not bloody rocketscience. Now we had these red areas on the minimap, arrows pointing where to go and no need to even read the quest text at all. Why not let it out and just ask for "5 bloody wolf pelts".
If you didn't ask for help, you were exploring the one bit that was to explore in WoW. But most just skipped over it. Guild Wars 2 will be hard on that group of players, because there is no clear line to how to play the game. That's one of the things that entices me. Exploring the game, with no time restriction or need to get to the endgame for the best bits. Though I look forward to the endgame too. Dressing up my character in unique gear sounds awesome
I understand OP he just grinded for 7 years set 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12... ext.
Now he wanne continuing this in next new game and grind set 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12... as nothing have changed so long it give him more powerfull rewards to show off in town bragging whole day how good he is and then as ELITE asking in general chat LFM to raid 4 houres check gear at bank if your advanced enough to join our ELITE group:P
Off corse GW2 for me have to proof its fun but i care less for gear or powerfull items im in for fun gametime and it seems GW2 is fun thats enought for me, fuck the gear i dont care im not playing games if as its work no way.
I want FUN back in the games again BRING IT ON GW2 YEH!!!
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
The funny thing about this whole debate, is that gear will probably have a much greater impact on gameplay than what a lot of people want to believe. At least in PvE that is.
On one hand I agree with the OP - what use is all your time in the game when you are not going to get better gear? Why even have crafting if better gear means nothing? The answer (from the posters) is that the game is making everyone equal so that the players develop their skills. I say bull feces. My son can and will beat me at an pvp in ANY mmo and has proved it many times. I am not that good a player. Knowing your skills is most of what makes a good player but, no matter what anyone says, it is reflexes (or macros!) that make the better players. The only hope I have of competing or getting into high end raids or pvp is better gear - and in GW2 that will not happen. You are rewarding the truly skilled. That is ok for the hardcore pvp players. Go ahead and applaud - and find that this game goes the way of the other games that emphasized pvp - Darkfall, AOC, Aion, etc.
Despite the above I REALLY hope that GW2 does well. I am really looking forward to this game and intend on spending a lot of time in it. From the GW2 videos there are a WHOLE lot of things to do. For me, the best part of the game is leveling up and, from what I have seen, that is going to be REAL fun.
On one hand I agree with the OP - what use is all your time in the game when you are not going to get better gear? Why even have crafting if better gear means nothing? The answer (from the posters) is that the game is making everyone equal so that the players develop their skills. I say bull feces. My son can and will beat me at an pvp in ANY mmo and has proved it many times. I am not that good a player. Knowing your skills is most of what makes a good player but, no matter what anyone says, it is reflexes (or macros!) that make the better players. The only hope I have of competing or getting into high end raids or pvp is better gear - and in GW2 that will not happen. You are rewarding the truly skilled. That is ok for the hardcore pvp players. Go ahead and applaud - and find that this game goes the way of the other games that emphasized pvp - Darkfall, AOC, Aion, etc.
Despite the above I REALLY hope that GW2 does well. I am really looking forward to this game and intend on spending a lot of time in it. From the GW2 videos there are a WHOLE lot of things to do. For me, the best part of the game is leveling up and, from what I have seen, that is going to be REAL fun.
I get what you mean, but I can't agree with it. You forget the other side of the coin. It could be that you are better skillwise, but if you don't have the gear, you just get roflstomped. This is the case in WoW when you for example just reached level 85 and join an Arena match or Battleground. Even in level 85 gear. The only reason is that they have the latest Tier gear, while you are sitting in the level 85 starter gear.
Of course you will win some battles, but most you will lose. In Guild Wars 2 every level 80 has the same "best" gear, which will make the player with the best skill, win the most battles. As it should be in my opinion. I won't be at the top, just because I'm not the best player out there. That doesn't withhold me from trying though and the fact that enemy will have pretty much the same gear as me, will mean that I've a fair change in every battle.
On one hand I agree with the OP - what use is all your time in the game when you are not going to get better gear? Why even have crafting if better gear means nothing? The answer (from the posters) is that the game is making everyone equal so that the players develop their skills. I say bull feces. My son can and will beat me at an pvp in ANY mmo and has proved it many times. I am not that good a player. Knowing your skills is most of what makes a good player but, no matter what anyone says, it is reflexes (or macros!) that make the better players. The only hope I have of competing or getting into high end raids or pvp is better gear - and in GW2 that will not happen. You are rewarding the truly skilled. That is ok for the hardcore pvp players. Go ahead and applaud - and find that this game goes the way of the other games that emphasized pvp - Darkfall, AOC, Aion, etc.
Despite the above I REALLY hope that GW2 does well. I am really looking forward to this game and intend on spending a lot of time in it. From the GW2 videos there are a WHOLE lot of things to do. For me, the best part of the game is leveling up and, from what I have seen, that is going to be REAL fun.
So you are saying because you suck at PvP that you need a crutch to win so you feel good about yourself. That's what better gear is. A crutch and not even a good one, because the better players will have that as well anyway.
I very much doubt I will do any structured PvP, because I'm physically unable to do it in any competative form. WvW on the other hand might show how superior intelligance can mean more then mere twitch skills.
Are people really for gear not affecting anything at all besides looks? IN pvp and pve?
If your a good player you will be remembered for your skill, not because you obtained the 'Staff of a million deaths'. People will fear you, stare in awe at your poise. Most of all they will respect you.
If you are the 'Staff of a million deaths' type of person, then maybe, just maybe this is not the game you are looking for.
The funny thing about this whole debate, is that gear will probably have a much greater impact on gameplay than what a lot of people want to believe. At least in PvE that is.
You'll have to be more specific for that sentence to mean anything. What impact?
The funny thing about this whole debate, is that gear will probably have a much greater impact on gameplay than what a lot of people want to believe. At least in PvE that is.
You'll have to be more specific for that sentence to mean anything. What impact?
The same impact gear has in most any other MMO these days. I'm hesitant to believe that GW2 will release using the exact same equipment system as GW1 where gear differences are mostly cosmetic.
On one hand I agree with the OP - what use is all your time in the game when you are not going to get better gear? Why even have crafting if better gear means nothing? The answer (from the posters) is that the game is making everyone equal so that the players develop their skills. I say bull feces. My son can and will beat me at an pvp in ANY mmo and has proved it many times. I am not that good a player. Knowing your skills is most of what makes a good player but, no matter what anyone says, it is reflexes (or macros!) that make the better players. The only hope I have of competing or getting into high end raids or pvp is better gear - and in GW2 that will not happen. You are rewarding the truly skilled. That is ok for the hardcore pvp players. Go ahead and applaud - and find that this game goes the way of the other games that emphasized pvp - Darkfall, AOC, Aion, etc.
Despite the above I REALLY hope that GW2 does well. I am really looking forward to this game and intend on spending a lot of time in it. From the GW2 videos there are a WHOLE lot of things to do. For me, the best part of the game is leveling up and, from what I have seen, that is going to be REAL fun.
I actually think GW2 will give you a lot of options.
In GW2, there aren't any instanced raids. The "raids" are open world dynamic events which scale up to 100 people. You can definitely take part in those.
There are 5-man dungeons which have one easier Story mode path and three harder Explorable mode paths. You can at least see the dungeon once and get a weapon token by doing the Story mode. Getting armor tokens from the Explorable mode might be difficult for you, but it also might be doable. For instance, perhaps you could focus on building for back line damage/support, and let players like your son and his friends try to carry the team in more difficult front line roles. It might be that you can do the midrange dungeons (because the game sidekicks you down to the highest level of them) and then there might be only a few high level dungeons which were out of your league. There's no shame in that. I bet a lot of people, myself included, are going to struggle greatly with them. The rewards are cosmetic, so it's not like you'll be excluded from anything else if you can't complete them.
As far as PVP goes, I think you'll definitely be able to contribute to World PVP. Players use Supply to build seige equipment, but each individual can only carry a limited amount. So you'll always be able to contribute to an attacking force even if you're not that skilled yourself. Defense will also play a vital role and you can always use defensive turrets and hot oil to drop on attackers to try to hold a keep.
Structured PVP are the arena style matches and has two sides; tournaments and casual PVP. I'll be honest, tournaments will be difficult. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun with it on the casual side. Players in GW2 can join multiple guilds so perhaps you could make one for casual PVPers, then start up your own games with people from there joining.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Comments
Lets use your own sports analogy. Did you get any advantages over other team the more you played apart from experience. No you didn't. You didn't get steel plated protection in american football the longer you played. You didn't have 3 men on the plates every batting round by default. The hoop wasn't automatically lowered for the team that had played longer.
No quite the opposite it was all even. GW2 structured PvP is exactly like sports where experience and tactics will decide the winner, not counting that slice of luck that is involved also.
It's not that people want things handed to them. It's that people want a fair fight and have skill determine who wins and not who played the longest.
One of the selling points of this game is that people don't have to keep playing it and can easily put it aside without it costing a cent. So what will keep people playing is the fun factor. Does that mean other games don't have a fun factor? Not at all, but they often try to keep you playing even after the factor has gone down for fear of falling behind.
I love the sound of the system that they have created and when it becomes available for release I plan to play for fun
I think you slightly misunderstood him about whats more rewarding hehe
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MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
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PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
Time != Skill
Skill = Skill
besides GW is and will be ever -> Prestige
Get the rarest Skins and be the boss!
I didn't say raiders don't have fun. I objected to the OPs point that fun can only be had through running the gear treadmill.
According to the OPs argument, people shouldn't be able to enjoy football, because they don't get better shoes after each match. And snowboarders shouldn't enjoy riding, because they don't get a better board after each ride.
So I can only cut down you sentiment here in two assumptions:
1. Guildwars 2 will not offer trophy's to achieve.
False, it actually offers more genuine trophies than most other MMOs. Why? Because the trophies are actually trophies and are not required to play the game. it is a status symbol, just what a trophy is supossed to be. Herefore, some trophies can be made much harder to get, because there arn't required to play. People can't complain the content is to hard if it doesn't give them any disadvantage. Have you heard the press whining about the dungeons being so haaaarddd. They have, and this is good. The dungeons will be difficult, and for you to get the trophy, you need to use your skill and experience, which, in real life, is also the requirement to achieve throphies.
2.Trophies should give power that will give an advantage. So when I have won the Fifa world cup, all players of the team should be giving magical power that will give them an advantage over the other team that do not have won the world cup.
Do you realize how silly this sounds?
What I get from your post is that you don't want REAL trophies, but rather trophies that are actually nothign but power enhancers. Real trophies arn't worhwhile to you and don't give you incentive to play the game. Explain to me how a tedious grind/ very hard content for special FLUFF gear is anything less progressive or less of an achievement than POWERFULL gear? The time spent on it and the exclusiveness of the achievement are still the same, the only thing is that it doesn't give you a SILLY AND UNFAIR ADVANTAGE over other players. Skill should determine who wins, don't you agree, mister sportsman?
Its all about how you use your MP5 not about amount of damage it makes after you played for months. Boosting is like a bonus, its not the main goal.
About COD and other FPS: Ive played UT2004 on clanbase, for summer cup, then for spring cup, then for Nations cup. etc etc etc. Instagib mod - only one weapon, one hit and you are dead, but it was fun, it was like a sport. Many people still play CS1.6 even if its very very old, guess why? Because its fun and they don't need 20 new weapons or 1000 maps every year.
By playing all the time you perfect your skills not your gun. Why I need to go through Wow Raids 1000 times to get that one lucky drop? Guess why DKP system exist? So someone who spends 1000h will get at least something. Now why would I have to spend 1000h to get purple pixels, when all that matters should be my SKILLS, JUST LIKE IN REAL WORLD (football for example).
And the last one... Once you blow through all the content... WHAT? WHAT? BLOW? The whole point of MMO is to LIVE AND INTERACT in that WORLD not to BLOW through..
Man I got one advice for ya, buy the game, play the game and enjoy it while you have fun... thats the reason to play games...to escape reality and be someone/something in alternative reality.. Its not about blowing or getting best possible gear, its about being part of community and tackling difficulties together.. Besides that there is Dynamic Events, so you will always have to do something.
damn straight it's for fun.
see, the thing raiding elitists (i hesitate to say "such as yourself" but that would probably be apt, judging by your post) don't understand is gear does not equal skill, but time always equals gear. if you spend your 40 hours a week on the game, you're bound to get into a few raids regardless of your skill. so you're bound to up your gear to the point where, in most games, it will win over skill 80% of the time when the opponent is under-geared. or, in raiding pve terms, guarantees you get chosen for raiding over someone who hasn't had the time to get partially or fully geared.
this has created and promoted an elitist and exclusive attitude in most mmos which makes a HUGE gap between "casual" gamers and "raiders".
gw2 is aiming to bridge that gap by reducing your dependance on gear and making you focus on your supposed skill. because, if you have skill, then you surely would like a challenge. i know i do! i want to be challenged! i don't want to steamroll content just because i got big lootz! who would? that's lazy and boring.
having content scale is an awesome example of this. that you can't ever go back to lower levels and feel OP is brilliant.
you, sir, need to face the fact that gear is not skill, and never should be. i think that's why gw2 is scaring so many raiders. now, instead of relying on uber loot they got for having the time to do the biggest dungeons, they'll have to rely on - shock horror - this mystical skill they have always claimed to possess.
and yes, all you should need is appearance. it will be enough to tell everyone about your skill.
why should you have a majic IWIN button for completing a raid?
Exactly, why should you play *anything* if its not fun? Gear? Statistical advantage over others?
Rewards are involved, just not statistical rewards.
To OP:
Its not subscription based game so they dont have to include mindless time-sinks that bear promise of fun sometime in the future to keep you subscribed, you engage in tme-sinks if you want to and for - fun - if you find it fun.
Then fucking stick with WoW, SWTOR, Rift or any other themepark treadmill MMO where it's not about skill but about who has better gear. ANet has always been a skill based game, if you fucking suck at the game guess what? Your gonna get you ass handed to in the game unlike WoW or SWTOR where you can faceroll through content.
GW2 will NEVER be about "ohh I spend more time than you I'm more LEET" epeen fueling. Any grinding will ALWAYS be for cosmetic/autheistic effects.
Now you do need some grinding to unlock skills and there will be some grinding for max stats geat which is on the assumption you don't get max stats gear as you are lvling.
I wish people would stop making pointless threads who are completely ignorant about the philosophies of ANet.
Well said.
For some reason many people seems to only continue playing if they are bribed to play instead of playing for fun.
If you don't have fun you are just wasting your time anyways, no amount of gear will change that.
Of course the gambling people who only have fun when they are rolling for raid gear wont get anything out of this game but frankly do they have almost all MMOs to choose from so I don't feel sorry for them.
In the end its just a bunch of pixels that you see on your monitor, its not the item that matters its the emotions it gives to you. Its a simulation, developer gives us a picture and its up to our BRAIN to tie it all together and get positive emotions out of it.
Arenanet are doing everything right, even with everything they showed there will be always someone who will complain, human nature.. Looking forward to kill these guys in GW2 instead of posting replying to them here. I mean I'm really shocked to see threads like this and threads like "GW2 gfx are already outdated"... WHAT? :O
Well it's personal preference. Personally, I'm in favour of games where player skill, cooperation and experience matters, not grinding for gear and other stuff. More like sports where equipment is basically the same but players make all the difference. And not only in PvP but also PvE.
Cast your vote: The importance of character customisation
Any worhwhile persuit is it's own reward.
Of course some unfortunate people are forced to persue not so worthwhile activities to house and feed their families. Why they would want to join the same rat race (aptly named) in their games is completely beyond me.
The grind for gear that EQ introduced and WoW personified + 'P2W' that was kind of stolen from collectable card games is a real minority thing.
Most games do not reward time (you don't get extra pawns for winning in chess, or more trumps in cards). Same is true on the pay to win side even with sports having the best gear is a negligible advantage. My grandfather was a keen golfer he used to carry a single wood, 3 irons and a putter (he could dispense with any one of those at a pinch) and still beat another scratch golfer 9 out of 10 times.
EQ (which did not even bother to hide the grind 'camping' for gear) and WoW (which perfected the art of keeping the hamsters running in the wheel) have addled peoples minds and gave rise to 'elitist jerkism'.
Of course one has to wonder what the player (not character) skill cap is like on GW2 but that is a different matter.
play dark souls and say it is not rewarding when you beat a boss, or a bunch of mobs without getting hit.
but like others are saying its a personal thing. some might meh at the fact there is no loot whilst others feel acomplished for actually conquering a certain stage withing a game whether it is mmo or regular games.
I suppose you are not from the generation that does things for the sake of doing them. At least in games perhaps? Not sure. I think games have always had some sort of rewards tied to difficult tasks. Then again, I do recall a time where people weren't rewarded for everything they did.
I agree with the GW attitude that your accomplishments are your rewards. It really is a different paradigm but one that I think is ultimately more fulfilling.
However, it seems that you are still into "playing barbie" as you want your different gear . You just want it to so that you can stand in the middle of town and people see your gear and know that it's "bad ass" and of course that you worked for it. But you are still into the idea of having that gear that differentiates you from others and people will recognize it by its look.
You want the Ball Gown of 100 strength while others wear the frocks medicroty, no?
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I know that I'm looking forward to "playing barbie". The fact that my gear will be as strong as that of the next guy makes me even happier. About people doing things for the sake of doing, I noticed that when I started playing WoW. That was my first MMORPG, so I don't know the situation before that. In vanilla WoW you had to read the quests to see where you could find the stuff to kill/gather/escort/etc. Yet, there were always some people who just shouted in /1 for the coordinates. That struck me as lazy. Just rushing to the endgame. Why not read the quest text (not that long, those 20 lines -_-) to look where you need to go? Else you could just skim the text for the direction and head off towards it. It's not bloody rocketscience. Now we had these red areas on the minimap, arrows pointing where to go and no need to even read the quest text at all. Why not let it out and just ask for "5 bloody wolf pelts".
If you didn't ask for help, you were exploring the one bit that was to explore in WoW. But most just skipped over it. Guild Wars 2 will be hard on that group of players, because there is no clear line to how to play the game. That's one of the things that entices me. Exploring the game, with no time restriction or need to get to the endgame for the best bits. Though I look forward to the endgame too. Dressing up my character in unique gear sounds awesome
I understand OP he just grinded for 7 years set 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12... ext.
Now he wanne continuing this in next new game and grind set 1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12... as nothing have changed so long it give him more powerfull rewards to show off in town bragging whole day how good he is and then as ELITE asking in general chat LFM to raid 4 houres check gear at bank if your advanced enough to join our ELITE group:P
Off corse GW2 for me have to proof its fun but i care less for gear or powerfull items im in for fun gametime and it seems GW2 is fun thats enought for me, fuck the gear i dont care im not playing games if as its work no way.
I want FUN back in the games again BRING IT ON GW2 YEH!!!
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
The funny thing about this whole debate, is that gear will probably have a much greater impact on gameplay than what a lot of people want to believe. At least in PvE that is.
On one hand I agree with the OP - what use is all your time in the game when you are not going to get better gear? Why even have crafting if better gear means nothing? The answer (from the posters) is that the game is making everyone equal so that the players develop their skills. I say bull feces. My son can and will beat me at an pvp in ANY mmo and has proved it many times. I am not that good a player. Knowing your skills is most of what makes a good player but, no matter what anyone says, it is reflexes (or macros!) that make the better players. The only hope I have of competing or getting into high end raids or pvp is better gear - and in GW2 that will not happen. You are rewarding the truly skilled. That is ok for the hardcore pvp players. Go ahead and applaud - and find that this game goes the way of the other games that emphasized pvp - Darkfall, AOC, Aion, etc.
Despite the above I REALLY hope that GW2 does well. I am really looking forward to this game and intend on spending a lot of time in it. From the GW2 videos there are a WHOLE lot of things to do. For me, the best part of the game is leveling up and, from what I have seen, that is going to be REAL fun.
I get what you mean, but I can't agree with it. You forget the other side of the coin. It could be that you are better skillwise, but if you don't have the gear, you just get roflstomped. This is the case in WoW when you for example just reached level 85 and join an Arena match or Battleground. Even in level 85 gear. The only reason is that they have the latest Tier gear, while you are sitting in the level 85 starter gear.
Of course you will win some battles, but most you will lose. In Guild Wars 2 every level 80 has the same "best" gear, which will make the player with the best skill, win the most battles. As it should be in my opinion. I won't be at the top, just because I'm not the best player out there. That doesn't withhold me from trying though and the fact that enemy will have pretty much the same gear as me, will mean that I've a fair change in every battle.
So you are saying because you suck at PvP that you need a crutch to win so you feel good about yourself. That's what better gear is. A crutch and not even a good one, because the better players will have that as well anyway.
I very much doubt I will do any structured PvP, because I'm physically unable to do it in any competative form. WvW on the other hand might show how superior intelligance can mean more then mere twitch skills.
If your a good player you will be remembered for your skill, not because you obtained the 'Staff of a million deaths'. People will fear you, stare in awe at your poise. Most of all they will respect you.
If you are the 'Staff of a million deaths' type of person, then maybe, just maybe this is not the game you are looking for.
You'll have to be more specific for that sentence to mean anything. What impact?
The same impact gear has in most any other MMO these days. I'm hesitant to believe that GW2 will release using the exact same equipment system as GW1 where gear differences are mostly cosmetic.
I actually think GW2 will give you a lot of options.
In GW2, there aren't any instanced raids. The "raids" are open world dynamic events which scale up to 100 people. You can definitely take part in those.
There are 5-man dungeons which have one easier Story mode path and three harder Explorable mode paths. You can at least see the dungeon once and get a weapon token by doing the Story mode. Getting armor tokens from the Explorable mode might be difficult for you, but it also might be doable. For instance, perhaps you could focus on building for back line damage/support, and let players like your son and his friends try to carry the team in more difficult front line roles. It might be that you can do the midrange dungeons (because the game sidekicks you down to the highest level of them) and then there might be only a few high level dungeons which were out of your league. There's no shame in that. I bet a lot of people, myself included, are going to struggle greatly with them. The rewards are cosmetic, so it's not like you'll be excluded from anything else if you can't complete them.
As far as PVP goes, I think you'll definitely be able to contribute to World PVP. Players use Supply to build seige equipment, but each individual can only carry a limited amount. So you'll always be able to contribute to an attacking force even if you're not that skilled yourself. Defense will also play a vital role and you can always use defensive turrets and hot oil to drop on attackers to try to hold a keep.
Structured PVP are the arena style matches and has two sides; tournaments and casual PVP. I'll be honest, tournaments will be difficult. But that doesn't mean you can't have fun with it on the casual side. Players in GW2 can join multiple guilds so perhaps you could make one for casual PVPers, then start up your own games with people from there joining.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007