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In WvW, siege weapons cost gold. Gems buyers have a WvW advantage

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  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by RizelStar

    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by RizelStar


    Originally posted by Loke666


    Originally posted by cali59

    The way I see it, the game (any game) needs gold sinks. Buying a large amount of influence for 100g is something that at least has the potential to be a repeat purchase by a bunch of guilds on a regular basis.  It seems like a major sink as opposed to other ones like teleportation and repair seem like particularly minor amounts.

    Another thing too is that I'm one of those people who is looking forward to converting my excess gold to gems to buy character slots. There needs to be something worth buying with gold for that transaction to work, otherwise people just buy gems to buy store things directly.

    As I posted earlier (either in this thread or one of the others), there are people out there who are willing to spend tons of cash in a cash shop (people who use the shop average $50 per month in Puzzle Pirates, while the other 95% play for free (source)). It's just good business to give those people stuff to buy, especially if it doesn't really affect anybody else.

    I look at ArenaNet's cash shop like it's appealing to people with more money than brains. If someone wants to spend a ton of cash to buy XP boosts that don't really help them accomplish much of anything, go ahead. If someone wants to try to spend real money to convert to influence like they think that they're going to make a difference among the 2000 people who are fighting, be my guest. ArenaNet will enjoy their money and the rest of us will enjoy playing a AAA MMO with no subscription.

    The same could be said of any cashshop no matter if we talk Smurf village or Wow. The point is to take as much money as possible from people with more money than sense (yeah, that is cynical but all companies need income).

    Yeah, it is a good gold sink and it works for improving the guildhall and similar things but PvP buffs is not good even if they are small buffs. It is the principle of things, not how big the buffs are.

    So I still think some change are needed here. Not enough to post hundreds of troll posts but it still should be fixed.

    Either take away the PvP buffs, make it so you only can get them by spending influence you played yourself to or take away the gold to influence trading. It is simple.

    Actually you can't out right buy influence you can buy some drinks though.

    Funny enough playing get's you more influence than paying...

    I

    So then someone who plays and pays will have more then someone who only does one or the other?

    A big concern of mine when it comes to these little advantages isn't always in the advantages themselves but in how the player base reacts to them. Not all the people who pay are going to do so because they have limited time, they will do it to increase there gains while playing. 

    Right now a guild which has someone with a large disposable income who can fill the guild 'coffers' with gold can offer more to potential recruits then a guild that doesn't. They might not have to ask their member to kick in some extra gold so buy these influence items, or they may be able to offer their members paid respecs/repairs. They might even be able to kick some gems your way if you need them.

    Another guild who may not have that one guy, might need their members to kick some gold even a small amount like 1-2g per week. While it might be a small amount but things like this can hurt guild recruitment and retention.

     

     

    Well I mean in WvWvW who isn't going to play and use the gold they get and not pay for influence and blue stamps, and what not.

    I mean shit what do you guys want from this lol, 

    I'm just saying if you play you'll be likely or even more likely to get more influence than someone who doesn't play but tries to buy gold because all they doing is buying drinks lol.

    Rather than playing and earning influence and buying drinks or blu stamps or actual upgrades on your keep.

    How can you do both? Like you mean play and earn gold, then buy gold once when ever those farmers if they can farm farm enough gold?

    Or once enough people got enough gold to get gems so those that bought gems will at a later period get some.

    What's the most amusing thing is, this thread started off as an siege = wins and now buffs equals wins.

    Not knowing balancing the two actually wolks leagues better than either or, what's even more funny is the huge thing people need is supply.

    Gold in it's ways won't be a need, in ways it's almost as imporatant as supply, but it's not, even supply is more important than this. Now what's funny is the servers that do that will most likely be fighting another server that attempts y'all assumptions if it leads them to win. 

    What's most likely going to happen is in 3 server warfare, like DAOC, not one server will be able to squash the other two unless it overpopulates them both tremendousely.

    So fuck the gems, they already proved moot. 

    I want to know was their gold sellers in DAOC and what was the case in rvrvr?

    Did this happen in RvRvR already? 

    Now say RvRvR doesn't have the mechanics, has what's been claim by any of us worked.

    The claims rely on what if people do this and that.

    The things we know is for gold to be made and attempted to be farmed(in this game) is that you must play first in order to pay for anything.

    The buffs don't even give an huge bonus and what's sad is y'all relying on one server to be the only server to achieve this and the other two can't.

    We are relying on people not being able to play to get the exact same stuff as those who pay.

    Gold farming based on the games mechanics doesn't seem as easy or possible.

    Also last but not least if one where to do both he'd have to play right? Then since there is a limit on what you can do and spend in wvwvw you'll have the exact sme as someone doing either or lol. You gotta be smart with what you spend and do.

     

    Eviction your concern seems to be a good one though, that I know of. Must rely on people doing it to actually happen, time will tell that though. Lmao we''ll actaully see if karma doesn't get those guilds.

    As you said time will tell..

    As for the topic switch that was brought on by the locking of this thread..

    http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/473/view/forums/thread/345434/page/6

    We were directed to post the buff concerns in this thread...

    I'd rather have had that thread then this one, a buff is more of a concern to me then the seige weapons. :)

  • dontadowdontadow Member UncommonPosts: 1,005

    I digress.

    It just seems like such a circular argument. 

     

    I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 30 years.  IN role playing games, when other players are involved, there is no such thing as winning. 

    Guild Wars 2 is as close to a real rpg as ive seen designed as an mmo since Ultima.  

    I know many of you aren't familiar with the pen and paper world. But in it, a bunch of warriors set out to save the world. The characters are relatively balanced.  In 2nd through 3.5/pathfinder, there are no roles you simply make a character and adjust to different roles during combats. MMOs were suppose to mimic these.  In the tabletop world, some builds are slightly more powerful than the other in solme way. It doesn't imbalance the game.  So long as no character is overtly powerful, no one cares, no one complains.  

    Guild Wars declarations feel that they are making a game that is about us versus the world and are balancing the characters the best they can for extra things like structured and wvwvw.  They've deemphasized equipment, which means stats are not as meaningful as they were. Experience doesnt matter as much. Heck items aren't even as important.  

    The idea of winning an RPG versus another player just sounds foriegn.  It sounds like the message of a generation that has loss the idea of beating the bad guy. The real bad guy.  Of exploring the story ,of enjoying the game.  

    I feel sad for these people who are complaining. I've done a lot of research and studying on slavery in college. And that's what it feels like.  

    Guild Wars has removed the slavery of XP, equipment.  They've given players choice to have these things faster if they wish to pay, but they won't make you better than another player. make no mistakes, they won't. Your percentage of dying will be the same whether you earn a level 6 minutes faaster than someone else or you get an item 12 minutes faster than someone else.  

    And yet ,they won't believe that. I think I have to talk to other folk now, because the people complaining about the cash shop feel so chained to the old method of building an MMO, they can't even see their free. The chains are gone, the fence is broken, and the argument of "winning" still persists .  

    Here is a game giving you the opportunity to pay them back with a little trust.  For 5 years most of the naysayers "said" they belieed in them.  They announced a ton of things, some very similar to what you've seen in other games.  Why is this one so much different.  

  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by dontadow

    I digress.

    It just seems like such a circular argument. 

     

    I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 30 years.  IN role playing games, when other players are involved, there is no such thing as winning. 

    Guild Wars 2 is as close to a real rpg as ive seen designed as an mmo since Ultima.  

    I know many of you aren't familiar with the pen and paper world. But in it, a bunch of warriors set out to save the world. The characters are relatively balanced.  In 2nd through 3.5/pathfinder, there are no roles you simply make a character and adjust to different roles during combats. MMOs were suppose to mimic these.  In the tabletop world, some builds are slightly more powerful than the other in solme way. It doesn't imbalance the game.  So long as no character is overtly powerful, no one cares, no one complains.  

    Guild Wars declarations feel that they are making a game that is about us versus the world and are balancing the characters the best they can for extra things like structured and wvwvw.  They've deemphasized equipment, which means stats are not as meaningful as they were. Experience doesnt matter as much. Heck items aren't even as important.  

    The idea of winning an RPG versus another player just sounds foriegn.  It sounds like the message of a generation that has loss the idea of beating the bad guy. The real bad guy.  Of exploring the story ,of enjoying the game.  

    I feel sad for these people who are complaining. I've done a lot of research and studying on slavery in college. And that's what it feels like.  

    Guild Wars has removed the slavery of XP, equipment.  They've given players choice to have these things faster if they wish to pay, but they won't make you better than another player. make no mistakes, they won't. Your percentage of dying will be the same whether you earn a level 6 minutes faaster than someone else or you get an item 12 minutes faster than someone else.  

    And yet ,they won't believe that. I think I have to talk to other folk now, because the people complaining about the cash shop feel so chained to the old method of building an MMO, they can't even see their free. The chains are gone, the fence is broken, and the argument of "winning" still persists .  

    Here is a game giving you the opportunity to pay them back with a little trust.  For 5 years most of the naysayers "said" they belieed in them.  They announced a ton of things, some very similar to what you've seen in other games.  Why is this one so much different.  

    You know you make some good points and from a purely pve perspective I'd agree with you. But were talking about WvWvW here, which is pvp. Not only is there a clear definition built into the game on who is the winner. But the winners entire server is rewarded with buffs, which means even a pve person is going to be better off if there server is winning wvwvw.

    Also note Wvwvw is not simply an 'extra' it is like an entirely seperate game which also affects the other game through buffs. Pvp is far from a side note in this game. Its not only a main focus, its what most of their fan base expects.

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Member Posts: 731


    Originally posted by darkehawke

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
     


    Originally posted by gu357u53r



    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh


    This is a similar arguement.
    But look at it like this.
    I need gold and don't have any.
    You have gold
    I use real money to buy a gem worth the value of gold you have
    we trade
    Now, I have gold, and you have a gem worth the same value as the gold you had before
    neither of us has nothing.


    So do you want ArenaNet to let the players run the servers?



     
    I don't think I'd go that far...I'd be happy with no trading real money for gold.


    Except it already happens in every mmo. Cash shop or not

    What breaks the economy is the scale to which it happens.

    In games where it's bannable, many "honest" people stay that way.
    Where it's acceptable..many many more are doing it and make the problme all the worse.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by evicton

    Originally posted by dontadow

    I digress.

    It just seems like such a circular argument. 

     

    I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 30 years.  IN role playing games, when other players are involved, there is no such thing as winning. 

    Guild Wars 2 is as close to a real rpg as ive seen designed as an mmo since Ultima.  

    I know many of you aren't familiar with the pen and paper world. But in it, a bunch of warriors set out to save the world. The characters are relatively balanced.  In 2nd through 3.5/pathfinder, there are no roles you simply make a character and adjust to different roles during combats. MMOs were suppose to mimic these.  In the tabletop world, some builds are slightly more powerful than the other in solme way. It doesn't imbalance the game.  So long as no character is overtly powerful, no one cares, no one complains.  

    Guild Wars declarations feel that they are making a game that is about us versus the world and are balancing the characters the best they can for extra things like structured and wvwvw.  They've deemphasized equipment, which means stats are not as meaningful as they were. Experience doesnt matter as much. Heck items aren't even as important.  

    The idea of winning an RPG versus another player just sounds foriegn.  It sounds like the message of a generation that has loss the idea of beating the bad guy. The real bad guy.  Of exploring the story ,of enjoying the game.  

    I feel sad for these people who are complaining. I've done a lot of research and studying on slavery in college. And that's what it feels like.  

    Guild Wars has removed the slavery of XP, equipment.  They've given players choice to have these things faster if they wish to pay, but they won't make you better than another player. make no mistakes, they won't. Your percentage of dying will be the same whether you earn a level 6 minutes faaster than someone else or you get an item 12 minutes faster than someone else.  

    And yet ,they won't believe that. I think I have to talk to other folk now, because the people complaining about the cash shop feel so chained to the old method of building an MMO, they can't even see their free. The chains are gone, the fence is broken, and the argument of "winning" still persists .  

    Here is a game giving you the opportunity to pay them back with a little trust.  For 5 years most of the naysayers "said" they belieed in them.  They announced a ton of things, some very similar to what you've seen in other games.  Why is this one so much different.  

    You know you make some good points and from a purely pve perspective I'd agree with you. But were talking about WvWvW here, which is pvp. Not only is there a clear definition built into the game on who is the winner. But the winners entire server is rewarded with buffs, which means even a pve person is going to be better off if there server is winning wvwvw.

    Also note Wvwvw is not simply an 'extra' it is like an entirely seperate game which also affects the other game through buffs. Pvp is far from a side note in this game. Its not only a main focus, its what most of their fan base expects.

    What exactly gives the buffs in WvWvW? Judging by the leaked images of the cash shop items, there is nothing on there that will give you any buff in any form of PvP.

    Well, maybe the top hat. That thing is epic.

    image

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Member Posts: 731

     


    Originally posted by Badgered86

    [Mod Edit]

    It appears that we were both wrong.

    The original text was: Yes, micro-transactions will exist. These will be cosmetic additions which will not affect balance or gameplay, similar to the transactions offered by Guild Wars.

     

     

    Hmmm, now where have I seen this before?............

    /Ponders

    Oh..Oh yea! Thats right in another game I played.

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?t=583369

     

    Seems great! Strictly cosmetic gear. They don't even mention the skill bundles which I consider to be buying an advantage as you would instantly unlock all of the available skills for a class rather than having to discover them through actually playing the game.

    Playing the game with all players subject to the same game rules regardless of what goods they buy from the shop... what a novel concept.

    That was changed to: Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.

     

    Saw them change their words too.

    http://forums.anarchyonline.com/showthread.php?t=583660

    I assure you...from this social and convenience item only Cash Shop there is advantage to be had.

    But people who don't even want to raise an eyebrow at a company who changes it's statement? Really?

    You deserve what you get.

     

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck Member UncommonPosts: 768

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by dontadow

    I digress.

    It just seems like such a circular argument. 

     

    I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 30 years.  IN role playing games, when other players are involved, there is no such thing as winning. 

    Guild Wars 2 is as close to a real rpg as ive seen designed as an mmo since Ultima.  

    I know many of you aren't familiar with the pen and paper world. But in it, a bunch of warriors set out to save the world. The characters are relatively balanced.  In 2nd through 3.5/pathfinder, there are no roles you simply make a character and adjust to different roles during combats. MMOs were suppose to mimic these.  In the tabletop world, some builds are slightly more powerful than the other in solme way. It doesn't imbalance the game.  So long as no character is overtly powerful, no one cares, no one complains.  

    Guild Wars declarations feel that they are making a game that is about us versus the world and are balancing the characters the best they can for extra things like structured and wvwvw.  They've deemphasized equipment, which means stats are not as meaningful as they were. Experience doesnt matter as much. Heck items aren't even as important.  

    The idea of winning an RPG versus another player just sounds foriegn.  It sounds like the message of a generation that has loss the idea of beating the bad guy. The real bad guy.  Of exploring the story ,of enjoying the game.  

    I feel sad for these people who are complaining. I've done a lot of research and studying on slavery in college. And that's what it feels like.  

    Guild Wars has removed the slavery of XP, equipment.  They've given players choice to have these things faster if they wish to pay, but they won't make you better than another player. make no mistakes, they won't. Your percentage of dying will be the same whether you earn a level 6 minutes faaster than someone else or you get an item 12 minutes faster than someone else.  

    And yet ,they won't believe that. I think I have to talk to other folk now, because the people complaining about the cash shop feel so chained to the old method of building an MMO, they can't even see their free. The chains are gone, the fence is broken, and the argument of "winning" still persists .  

    Here is a game giving you the opportunity to pay them back with a little trust.  For 5 years most of the naysayers "said" they belieed in them.  They announced a ton of things, some very similar to what you've seen in other games.  Why is this one so much different.  

    You know you make some good points and from a purely pve perspective I'd agree with you. But were talking about WvWvW here, which is pvp. Not only is there a clear definition built into the game on who is the winner. But the winners entire server is rewarded with buffs, which means even a pve person is going to be better off if there server is winning wvwvw.

    Also note Wvwvw is not simply an 'extra' it is like an entirely seperate game which also affects the other game through buffs. Pvp is far from a side note in this game. Its not only a main focus, its what most of their fan base expects.

    What exactly gives the buffs in WvWvW? Judging by the leaked images of the cash shop items, there is nothing on there that will give you any buff in any form of PvP.

    Well, maybe the top hat. That thing is epic.

    In WvW you get buffs depending on how much you own, not just for winning.  in the WvW video's the points were tallied every 5 minutes and all 3 servers got buffs, some higher then otheres, but no its not just the winning server that gets them

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck Member UncommonPosts: 768

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

     


    Originally posted by Badgered86


    [Mod Edit]

    It appears that we were both wrong.

    The original text was: Yes, micro-transactions will exist. These will be cosmetic additions which will not affect balance or gameplay, similar to the transactions offered by Guild Wars.

     

     

    Hmmm, now where have I seen this before?............

    /Ponders

    Oh..Oh yea! Thats right in another game I played.

    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?t=583369

     

    Seems great! Strictly cosmetic gear. They don't even mention the skill bundles which I consider to be buying an advantage as you would instantly unlock all of the available skills for a class rather than having to discover them through actually playing the game.

    Playing the game with all players subject to the same game rules regardless of what goods they buy from the shop... what a novel concept.

    That was changed to: Yes, micro-transactions will exist. Be assured goods and items bought for cash in GW2 do not offer any advantage over those available in the game through the investment of time.

     

    Saw them change their words too.

    http://forums.anarchyonline.com/showthread.php?t=583660

    I assure you...from this social and convenience item only Cash Shop there is advantage to be had.

    But people who don't even want to raise an eyebrow at a company who changes it's statement? Really?

    You deserve what you get.

     

    if you want to raise an eyebrow at a company that changes it's statements, what about when they released the skills, now there all changed, what about things they release that they thought were broken, should they not of fixed them because they stated it would be that way.  what about when they had a energy system, that has to stay in the game because at one time they stated it was a part of the game? 

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

     

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

    Some of us are grabbing the pitchforks.  And Anet, trapped in their castle, has already removed some of the egregious items in order to try to calm the angry mob.  You will thank us later if even more of these items will be removed by launch...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • evictonevicton Member Posts: 398

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by dontadow

    I digress.

    It just seems like such a circular argument. 

     

    I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 30 years.  IN role playing games, when other players are involved, there is no such thing as winning. 

    Guild Wars 2 is as close to a real rpg as ive seen designed as an mmo since Ultima.  

    I know many of you aren't familiar with the pen and paper world. But in it, a bunch of warriors set out to save the world. The characters are relatively balanced.  In 2nd through 3.5/pathfinder, there are no roles you simply make a character and adjust to different roles during combats. MMOs were suppose to mimic these.  In the tabletop world, some builds are slightly more powerful than the other in solme way. It doesn't imbalance the game.  So long as no character is overtly powerful, no one cares, no one complains.  

    Guild Wars declarations feel that they are making a game that is about us versus the world and are balancing the characters the best they can for extra things like structured and wvwvw.  They've deemphasized equipment, which means stats are not as meaningful as they were. Experience doesnt matter as much. Heck items aren't even as important.  

    The idea of winning an RPG versus another player just sounds foriegn.  It sounds like the message of a generation that has loss the idea of beating the bad guy. The real bad guy.  Of exploring the story ,of enjoying the game.  

    I feel sad for these people who are complaining. I've done a lot of research and studying on slavery in college. And that's what it feels like.  

    Guild Wars has removed the slavery of XP, equipment.  They've given players choice to have these things faster if they wish to pay, but they won't make you better than another player. make no mistakes, they won't. Your percentage of dying will be the same whether you earn a level 6 minutes faaster than someone else or you get an item 12 minutes faster than someone else.  

    And yet ,they won't believe that. I think I have to talk to other folk now, because the people complaining about the cash shop feel so chained to the old method of building an MMO, they can't even see their free. The chains are gone, the fence is broken, and the argument of "winning" still persists .  

    Here is a game giving you the opportunity to pay them back with a little trust.  For 5 years most of the naysayers "said" they belieed in them.  They announced a ton of things, some very similar to what you've seen in other games.  Why is this one so much different.  

    You know you make some good points and from a purely pve perspective I'd agree with you. But were talking about WvWvW here, which is pvp. Not only is there a clear definition built into the game on who is the winner. But the winners entire server is rewarded with buffs, which means even a pve person is going to be better off if there server is winning wvwvw.

    Also note Wvwvw is not simply an 'extra' it is like an entirely seperate game which also affects the other game through buffs. Pvp is far from a side note in this game. Its not only a main focus, its what most of their fan base expects.

    What exactly gives the buffs in WvWvW? Judging by the leaked images of the cash shop items, there is nothing on there that will give you any buff in any form of PvP.

    Well, maybe the top hat. That thing is epic.

    In WvW you get buffs depending on how much you own, not just for winning.  in the WvW video's the points were tallied every 5 minutes and all 3 servers got buffs, some higher then otheres, but no its not just the winning server that gets them

    Just cause the losers get consolation prizes doesn't mean there isn't a clear cut winner. Thats the point I was making.. you cannot dispute that there is a winner in WvWvW.

    To the other person, the buffs for WvWvW are purchased with influence which you can purchase with gold, which you can trade cash store purchased gems for.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by dontadow

    I digress.

    It just seems like such a circular argument. 

     

    I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 30 years.  IN role playing games, when other players are involved, there is no such thing as winning. 

    Guild Wars 2 is as close to a real rpg as ive seen designed as an mmo since Ultima.  

    I know many of you aren't familiar with the pen and paper world. But in it, a bunch of warriors set out to save the world. The characters are relatively balanced.  In 2nd through 3.5/pathfinder, there are no roles you simply make a character and adjust to different roles during combats. MMOs were suppose to mimic these.  In the tabletop world, some builds are slightly more powerful than the other in solme way. It doesn't imbalance the game.  So long as no character is overtly powerful, no one cares, no one complains.  

    Guild Wars declarations feel that they are making a game that is about us versus the world and are balancing the characters the best they can for extra things like structured and wvwvw.  They've deemphasized equipment, which means stats are not as meaningful as they were. Experience doesnt matter as much. Heck items aren't even as important.  

    The idea of winning an RPG versus another player just sounds foriegn.  It sounds like the message of a generation that has loss the idea of beating the bad guy. The real bad guy.  Of exploring the story ,of enjoying the game.  

    I feel sad for these people who are complaining. I've done a lot of research and studying on slavery in college. And that's what it feels like.  

    Guild Wars has removed the slavery of XP, equipment.  They've given players choice to have these things faster if they wish to pay, but they won't make you better than another player. make no mistakes, they won't. Your percentage of dying will be the same whether you earn a level 6 minutes faaster than someone else or you get an item 12 minutes faster than someone else.  

    And yet ,they won't believe that. I think I have to talk to other folk now, because the people complaining about the cash shop feel so chained to the old method of building an MMO, they can't even see their free. The chains are gone, the fence is broken, and the argument of "winning" still persists .  

    Here is a game giving you the opportunity to pay them back with a little trust.  For 5 years most of the naysayers "said" they belieed in them.  They announced a ton of things, some very similar to what you've seen in other games.  Why is this one so much different.  

    You know you make some good points and from a purely pve perspective I'd agree with you. But were talking about WvWvW here, which is pvp. Not only is there a clear definition built into the game on who is the winner. But the winners entire server is rewarded with buffs, which means even a pve person is going to be better off if there server is winning wvwvw.

    Also note Wvwvw is not simply an 'extra' it is like an entirely seperate game which also affects the other game through buffs. Pvp is far from a side note in this game. Its not only a main focus, its what most of their fan base expects.

    What exactly gives the buffs in WvWvW? Judging by the leaked images of the cash shop items, there is nothing on there that will give you any buff in any form of PvP.

    Well, maybe the top hat. That thing is epic.

    In WvW you get buffs depending on how much you own, not just for winning.  in the WvW video's the points were tallied every 5 minutes and all 3 servers got buffs, some higher then otheres, but no its not just the winning server that gets them

    I saw those videos. I wanted to know if there is anything that the cash shop offers that will give you buffs in WvWvW? Because that's what this whole discussion is about aparently. Somehow buying something from the cash shop gives some sort of a buff in WvWvW.

    image

  • st4t1ckst4t1ck Member UncommonPosts: 768

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by st4t1ck


     

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

    Some of us are grabbing the pitchforks.  And Anet, trapped in their castle, has already removed some of the egregious items in order to try to calm the angry mob.  You will thank us later if even more of these items will be removed by launch...

    shall we both come back and see whats exactly in at launch then.  ill bookmark it, because developers will realise the forums are the minority, no matter how many of you yell

  • gainesvilleggainesvilleg Member CommonPosts: 1,053

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by st4t1ck


     

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

    Some of us are grabbing the pitchforks.  And Anet, trapped in their castle, has already removed some of the egregious items in order to try to calm the angry mob.  You will thank us later if even more of these items will be removed by launch...

    shall we both come back and see whats exactly in at launch then.  ill bookmark it, because developers will realise the forums are the minority, no matter how many of you yell

    They have ALREADY removed some of the items.  Not ALL of the bad ones, but some of them.

    I don't doubt some will make it to launch though.  That is the nature of the cash shop beast.  It is corrupting...

    GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
    1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
    2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by evicton

    Originally posted by st4t1ck


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by evicton


    Originally posted by dontadow

    I digress.

    It just seems like such a circular argument. 

     

    I've played Dungeons and Dragons for 30 years.  IN role playing games, when other players are involved, there is no such thing as winning. 

    Guild Wars 2 is as close to a real rpg as ive seen designed as an mmo since Ultima.  

    I know many of you aren't familiar with the pen and paper world. But in it, a bunch of warriors set out to save the world. The characters are relatively balanced.  In 2nd through 3.5/pathfinder, there are no roles you simply make a character and adjust to different roles during combats. MMOs were suppose to mimic these.  In the tabletop world, some builds are slightly more powerful than the other in solme way. It doesn't imbalance the game.  So long as no character is overtly powerful, no one cares, no one complains.  

    Guild Wars declarations feel that they are making a game that is about us versus the world and are balancing the characters the best they can for extra things like structured and wvwvw.  They've deemphasized equipment, which means stats are not as meaningful as they were. Experience doesnt matter as much. Heck items aren't even as important.  

    The idea of winning an RPG versus another player just sounds foriegn.  It sounds like the message of a generation that has loss the idea of beating the bad guy. The real bad guy.  Of exploring the story ,of enjoying the game.  

    I feel sad for these people who are complaining. I've done a lot of research and studying on slavery in college. And that's what it feels like.  

    Guild Wars has removed the slavery of XP, equipment.  They've given players choice to have these things faster if they wish to pay, but they won't make you better than another player. make no mistakes, they won't. Your percentage of dying will be the same whether you earn a level 6 minutes faaster than someone else or you get an item 12 minutes faster than someone else.  

    And yet ,they won't believe that. I think I have to talk to other folk now, because the people complaining about the cash shop feel so chained to the old method of building an MMO, they can't even see their free. The chains are gone, the fence is broken, and the argument of "winning" still persists .  

    Here is a game giving you the opportunity to pay them back with a little trust.  For 5 years most of the naysayers "said" they belieed in them.  They announced a ton of things, some very similar to what you've seen in other games.  Why is this one so much different.  

    You know you make some good points and from a purely pve perspective I'd agree with you. But were talking about WvWvW here, which is pvp. Not only is there a clear definition built into the game on who is the winner. But the winners entire server is rewarded with buffs, which means even a pve person is going to be better off if there server is winning wvwvw.

    Also note Wvwvw is not simply an 'extra' it is like an entirely seperate game which also affects the other game through buffs. Pvp is far from a side note in this game. Its not only a main focus, its what most of their fan base expects.

    What exactly gives the buffs in WvWvW? Judging by the leaked images of the cash shop items, there is nothing on there that will give you any buff in any form of PvP.

    Well, maybe the top hat. That thing is epic.

    In WvW you get buffs depending on how much you own, not just for winning.  in the WvW video's the points were tallied every 5 minutes and all 3 servers got buffs, some higher then otheres, but no its not just the winning server that gets them

    Just cause the losers get consolation prizes doesn't mean there isn't a clear cut winner. Thats the point I was making.. you cannot dispute that there is a winner in WvWvW.

    To the other person, the buffs for WvWvW are purchased with influence which you can purchase with gold, which you can trade cash store purchased gems for.

    You're assuming that there will be high enough demand for gems to warant a high enough gold price that would make buying influence with gold actually meaningful.

    BTW, have you looked at http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Influence? The stuff that gives buffs in PvP applies to all of your allies, not just your guild. So everyone benefits.

    Edit: In a hypothetical situation where one guild, on one server, maxes out their influence via trading gems for gold the impact will not be significant enough to be noticable. I mean have you seen some of these buffs? +40 vitality? That's what 1 extra hit?

    Moreover, since servers get paired up with other servers of a similar skill level, assuming that one server will dominate WvWvW through influence buffs acquired with gems to gold trading, the server in question will be paired up against another server that did just as well. Which will nullify the gold buying.

    image

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Member Posts: 731

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

     

    if you want to raise an eyebrow at a company that changes it's statements, what about when they released the skills, now there all changed, what about things they release that they thought were broken, should they not of fixed them because they stated it would be that way.  what about when they had a energy system, that has to stay in the game because at one time they stated it was a part of the game? 

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

    I think you  are getting the QA process mixed up with the PR process.

  • GeeTeeEffOhGeeTeeEffOh Member Posts: 731

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

     

    shall we both come back and see whats exactly in at launch then.  ill bookmark it, because developers will realise the forums are the minority, no matter how many of you yell

    I think that's a wonderful idea. It'll be a great example to teach people to speak up while they can or regret it later.

  • FargolFargol Member UncommonPosts: 303

    Originally posted by WellzyC

    Blue prints are not that expensive..

     

    The hard part is getting the supply you need, Because it requries more than you can carry. Anymore lame attempts to try and complain about gems?

     

    Next complaint please.

    That's a relief.

     

    So since there's no advantage to being able to buy blueprints that way, no one will be doing it since it apparently gives no advantage.

    So why would anyone want to buy them via gems?

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by heartless

    I saw those videos. I wanted to know if there is anything that the cash shop offers that will give you buffs in WvWvW? Because that's what this whole discussion is about aparently. Somehow buying something from the cash shop gives some sort of a buff in WvWvW.

    No, there isn't. People are making a roundabout connection saying that you can buy gems which you can trade for gold which you can use to buy your guild influence, and this is true, but it leaves a lot of critical details out. Such as:

     

    * Guild bonuses you gain only apply in the immidiate vicinity of the keep, tower etc. your guidl has claimed, and a guild can only claim one. The give your guild a home field advantage defensively, but if someone takes your keep they're gone. >poof<

    * The gold you trade for already exists in game, which means the power to buy influence is already there... nothing new is actually added. What gems to is redistribute gold between players, not create new gold.

     

    The reality is that people are complaining for the sake of complaining, trying to tear down this game for whatever personal reasons. When you see some of the detractors spewing their undying love of Tera, for example, it becomes easy to draw conclusions as to what those motives may be.

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg

    Originally posted by st4t1ck

     

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

    Some of us are grabbing the pitchforks.  And Anet, trapped in their castle, has already removed some of the egregious items in order to try to calm the angry mob.  You will thank us later if even more of these items will be removed by launch...

    shall we both come back and see whats exactly in at launch then.  ill bookmark it, because developers will realise the forums are the minority, no matter how many of you yell

    They have ALREADY removed some of the items.  Not ALL of the bad ones, but some of them.

    Such as? Based on what evidence? Were they permanently removed or simply not available for the beta?

     

    You making things up? still?

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence Member UncommonPosts: 565

    Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh

    Originally posted by st4t1ck


     

    if you want to raise an eyebrow at a company that changes it's statements, what about when they released the skills, now there all changed, what about things they release that they thought were broken, should they not of fixed them because they stated it would be that way.  what about when they had a energy system, that has to stay in the game because at one time they stated it was a part of the game? 

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

    I think you  are getting the QA process mixed up with the PR process.

    And most of all: Business!

    Not too long ago at Anet/NCSoft meeting:

     

    Business: How bout we put these items in the CS? That should make me big moneys.

    QA: I don't think so. Doesn't make the game any better, players will not like it.

    PR: np, I'll just spin it until the fans believe it's awesome. They're all braindead, anyway.

    QA: Sigh... We're gonna spend that extra money on better content, right?

    Business: Well, I was thinking cars & hookers, actually.

    QA: Oh god, i hate our fans so much right now... Should've left with Jeff for Undead Labs when I had the chance...

    PR: np, I like hookers.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • Badgered86Badgered86 Member UncommonPosts: 175

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by st4t1ck


    Originally posted by gainesvilleg


    Originally posted by st4t1ck


     

    be for real, shit changes for the good and bad, if they said we will not sell exp boost, and now they are ok grab the pitchforks.

    Some of us are grabbing the pitchforks.  And Anet, trapped in their castle, has already removed some of the egregious items in order to try to calm the angry mob.  You will thank us later if even more of these items will be removed by launch...

    shall we both come back and see whats exactly in at launch then.  ill bookmark it, because developers will realise the forums are the minority, no matter how many of you yell

    They have ALREADY removed some of the items.  Not ALL of the bad ones, but some of them.

    Such as? Based on what evidence? Were they permanently removes or simply not available for the beta?

     

    You making things up? still?

    Let's just say that the version of the cash shop that was leaked has already changed (as shown in press videos), and will hopefully change more.

  • VolkonVolkon Member UncommonPosts: 3,748

    Originally posted by Badgered86

    Let's just say that the version of the cash shop that was leaked has already changed (as shown in press videos), and will hopefully change more.

    I fully expect it to change. Things will be tweaked, more things added, etc.

     

    However, were things removed permanently or were they removed because they didn't want them in the beta just yet? Do we know, or are we assuming that since something is missing in the first public closed beta that it's gone forever?

    Oderint, dum metuant.

  • VowOfSilenceVowOfSilence Member UncommonPosts: 565

    Originally posted by Volkon

    No, there isn't. People are making a roundabout connection saying that you can buy gems which you can trade for gold which you can use to buy your guild influence, and this is true, but it leaves a lot of critical details out. Such as:

     

    * Guild bonuses you gain only apply in the immidiate vicinity of the keep, tower etc. your guidl has claimed, and a guild can only claim one. The give your guild a home field advantage defensively, but if someone takes your keep they're gone. >poof<

    * The gold you trade for already exists in game, which means the power to buy influence is already there... nothing new is actually added. What gems to is redistribute gold between players, not create new gold.

     

    The reality is that people are complaining for the sake of complaining, trying to tear down this game for whatever personal reasons. When you see some of the detractors spewing their undying love of Tera, for example, it becomes easy to draw conclusions as to what those motives may be.

    More on topic again:

    @1 So? This doesn't change the fact that it's an advantage. Also, not all guild buffs are area affects (f.e. bonus supply, siege...)

    @2 So? Redistributing gold to players with gems is enough. It's how most F2P games work.

    Hype train -> Reality

  • RizelStarRizelStar Member UncommonPosts: 2,773

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by Badgered86

    Let's just say that the version of the cash shop that was leaked has already changed (as shown in press videos), and will hopefully change more.

    I fully expect it to change. Things will be tweaked, more things added, etc.

     

    However, were things removed permanently or were they removed because they didn't want them in the beta just yet? Do we know, or are we assuming that since something is missing in the first public closed beta that it's gone forever?

    Volkon, it's these scrolls, that they where thinking about selling, because they droped in game(WvWvW) as well, but they have been removed, there is reasons I know this, the stuff that was leaked, is actually still up in air, they did remove the megaphone as well as someother things they didn't talk about. 

    It was like the temporary influence things you can get but lasted shorter and don't stack as well, limited use. 

     

    My friend was all over it as well. I don't even think it'll be in game, and it could only be used in wvwvwvw and the length of time is laughable.

     

    I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

    I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

    P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

    Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  • FlawSGIFlawSGI Member UncommonPosts: 1,379

    Originally posted by Volkon

    Originally posted by Badgered86

    Let's just say that the version of the cash shop that was leaked has already changed (as shown in press videos), and will hopefully change more.

    I fully expect it to change. Things will be tweaked, more things added, etc.

     

    However, were things removed permanently or were they removed because they didn't want them in the beta just yet? Do we know, or are we assuming that since something is missing in the first public closed beta that it's gone forever?

     No it's all assumptions. One guy claiming Anet has changed it's statement regarding the CS even though Anet has stated that the CS as it stands isn't final and they are still working on it. Another guy claims their QQ is for the good of the game because look, they are already making changes thanx to us. The CS items are not final and they have only really changed statements when they have had to clarify something in part to tall the drama queens that claim doom and gloom when they over analyse what was actually said. Anet has been pretty open about the whole process so it's really funny to see claims of shadiness and PR damage control. 

     

    RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.

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