Just to stir the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
Originally posted by darkehawke Some of these pay to win arguments are getting so flimsy I'm starting to think that some of those arguing loudest with barely a basis to their argument are secret gold farm customers who are annoyed at losing out potentially on an advantage. It is to my understanding, that gems do not bring in new gold, as it is gold that a player has earn already, being bought. Is that no longer the case? Did I miss something?
Yeah because everyone knows that the Cash shop is really a conspiracy devised by ANet and it's loyal customer base to trick ANet's evil master, NCSoft into thinking that there really is a future moneymaking plan in place when everyone knows it's just there for show and isn't really supposed to earn money by not offering anything worth paying real money for.
No RMT gold farmer has ever used money that was spawned from nothing. They have always been earned by someone in game. The difference is that farmers will use the game to obtain gold and items to convert into gold (mats and drops) where as ANet is spawning something of value directly into the economy that did not previously exist in game nor was it worked for. But rather is introduced into the economy via credit card.
The whole statement about gold being earned by players is a straw-man. it has always been that way.
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
lol where did this come from?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
Just to stir the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
So then why would I sell my gold for some cosmetic crap when I can spend it on stuff that would actually benefit my guild in the game?
If Influence is that important in the game I see most people saving their gold to spend on Influence rather than gems.
I'm just playing devils advocate, but remember there are alot of people that don't care about pvp/influence/min-maxing etc, but love all the costumes, pets etc that would be in a shop, so they might be more inclined to buy gems from people and those people then have extra gold(Via $) to use for anything(including influence).
Some of these pay to win arguments are getting so flimsy I'm starting to think that some of those arguing loudest with barely a basis to their argument are secret gold farm customers who are annoyed at losing out potentially on an advantage.
It is to my understanding, that gems do not bring in new gold, as it is gold that a player has earn already, being bought. Is that no longer the case? Did I miss something?
Yeah because everyone knows that the Cash shop is really a conspiracy devised by ANet and it's loyal customer base to trick ANet's evil master, NCSoft into thinking that there really is a future moneymaking plan in place when everyone knows it's just there for show and isn't really supposed to earn money by not offering anything worth paying real money for.
No RMT gold farmer has ever used money that was spawned from nothing. They have always been earned by someone in game. The difference is that farmers will use the game to obtain gold and items to convert into gold (mats and drops) where as ANet is spawning something of value directly into the economy that did not previously exist in game nor was it worked for. But rather is introduced into the economy via credit card.
The whole statement about gold being earned by players is a straw-man. it has always been that way.
What is it they are spawning into the economy!
In my previous experience most cash shop items are no trade and have no effect on the economy.
Now I never used gw1 cash shop so I can't comment on it.
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
This makes no sense. No matter what the gold stays in the game, doesn't matter if its through gems(Via a player) or just straight buying gold from a RMT company.
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
lol where did this come from?
IMO there will probably be gold sellers still, so you can buy gems in the cash shop, but you can't buy gold, so gold farmers will sell the gold, i personally would rather support ANet but i see what he is saying.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
lol where did this come from?
IMO there will probably be gold sellers still, so you can buy gems in the cash shop, but you can't buy gold, so gold farmers will sell the gold, i personally would rather support ANet but i see what he is saying.
Yeah I thought this thread was about buying gems to buy gold to buy influence.
I was making a point that even without the gems part, people will still buy gold to get the influence if they so wished.
I'd rather my money went back into the game than an external gold selling company.
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
Some of these pay to win arguments are getting so flimsy I'm starting to think that some of those arguing loudest with barely a basis to their argument are secret gold farm customers who are annoyed at losing out potentially on an advantage.
It is to my understanding, that gems do not bring in new gold, as it is gold that a player has earn already, being bought. Is that no longer the case? Did I miss something?
Yeah because everyone knows that the Cash shop is really a conspiracy devised by ANet and it's loyal customer base to trick ANet's evil master, NCSoft into thinking that there really is a future moneymaking plan in place when everyone knows it's just there for show and isn't really supposed to earn money by not offering anything worth paying real money for.
No RMT gold farmer has ever used money that was spawned from nothing. They have always been earned by someone in game. The difference is that farmers will use the game to obtain gold and items to convert into gold (mats and drops) where as ANet is spawning something of value directly into the economy that did not previously exist in game nor was it worked for. But rather is introduced into the economy via credit card.
The whole statement about gold being earned by players is a straw-man. it has always been that way.
What is it they are spawning into the economy!
In my previous experience most cash shop items are no trade and have no effect on the economy.
Now I never used gw1 cash shop so I can't comment on it.
The actual items in the shop will probably not be a issue. Some people have concerns with the boost/keys/loot chest but kinda of minor overall.
The most pressing concern I see from most people who are apprehensiable about the cash shop and the problems it "might" create has to deal with the fact that you can buy gems(the shop currency) with $, then sell those gems to players for gold. In a sense you are buying gold for $ from players legally, almost like a RMT shop but without the middle man and its OK by Anet. Yes there are some variables invovled such as supply/demand and the conversion ratio, also how important "currency" is(how hard it is to get + money sinks), but its no different then straight $ > gold, which also deals with the same concerns.
Both sides have ground to stand on, and no one really knows what could or can happen, time will time. But just sweeping it under the rug like most people do(mostly the fanboys desperately trying to white knight any slightly negative perceptions) is just as wrong. It will be interesting to see how it works out and if problems crop up. But its better now for players to express these potential issues then just sticking your head in the ground.
I am glad the cash shop is in the game, I think it will keep the majority of the stupid players out.
The type that say things like "OMG cash shop = P2W". When in reality they have no flippin clue what they are talking about.
Cash shops ruin the integrity of a game, this is why they were not used in MMO games early on, because the games were about building and earning what your characters were. Not paying extra money to cut corners.
Slowly the companies that didn't care about the integrity of mmorpgs started getting casual players more and more accustomed to p2w, so now most people think it isn't a big deal at all.
Those same kind of companies are the ones that try to call vindictus mmorpg, when it does not have a persistent world that a massive amount of players can play in at the same time.
Ok UO had no guild chat, whispers, AH or many other things so that must mean they were left out due to integrity of the game. So lets remove all of that. Also instanced dungeons. But it did have open world hardcore pvp. Based on your bizarre post that means that is good for the integrity of the game so all MMOs should have that.
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
lol where did this come from?
IMO there will probably be gold sellers still, so you can buy gems in the cash shop, but you can't buy gold, so gold farmers will sell the gold, i personally would rather support ANet but i see what he is saying.
Yeah I thought this thread was about buying gems to buy gold to buy influence.
I was making a point that even without the gems part, people will still buy gold to get the influence if they so wished.
I'd rather my money went back into the game than an external gold selling company.
Ahh ok, so pay money for gold in game to get what gems can get, because you are buying the gems to get what's in the cash shop?
But in order to get gems you must give gold to players in game?
Did I miss something
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Just to stir the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
Some of these pay to win arguments are getting so flimsy I'm starting to think that some of those arguing loudest with barely a basis to their argument are secret gold farm customers who are annoyed at losing out potentially on an advantage.
It is to my understanding, that gems do not bring in new gold, as it is gold that a player has earn already, being bought. Is that no longer the case? Did I miss something?
Yeah because everyone knows that the Cash shop is really a conspiracy devised by ANet and it's loyal customer base to trick ANet's evil master, NCSoft into thinking that there really is a future moneymaking plan in place when everyone knows it's just there for show and isn't really supposed to earn money by not offering anything worth paying real money for.
No RMT gold farmer has ever used money that was spawned from nothing. They have always been earned by someone in game. The difference is that farmers will use the game to obtain gold and items to convert into gold (mats and drops) where as ANet is spawning something of value directly into the economy that did not previously exist in game nor was it worked for. But rather is introduced into the economy via credit card.
The whole statement about gold being earned by players is a straw-man. it has always been that way.
What is it they are spawning into the economy!
In my previous experience most cash shop items are no trade and have no effect on the economy.
Now I never used gw1 cash shop so I can't comment on it.
The actual items in the shop will probably not be a issue. Some people have concerns with the boost/keys/loot chest but kinda of minor overall.
The most pressing concern I see from most people who are apprehensiable about the cash shop and the problems it "might" create has to deal with the fact that you can buy gems(the shop currency) with $, then sell those gems to players for gold. In a sense you are buying gold for $ from players legally, almost like a RMT shop but without the middle man and its OK by Anet. Yes there are some variables invovled such as supply/demand and the conversion ratio, also how important "currency" is(how hard it is to get + money sinks), but its no different then straight $ > gold, which also deals with the same concerns.
Both sides have ground to stand on, and no one really knows what could or can happen, time will time. But just sweeping it under the rug like most people do(mostly the fanboys desperately trying to white knight any slightly negative perceptions) is just as wrong. It will be interesting to see how it works out and if problems crop up. But its better now for players to express these potential issues then just sticking your head in the ground.
Yeah but that isn't spawning gold is it. It's more like moving gold from one location to another. One player loses the gold and another player gains it rather then one player keeps gold and another player gains it.
I may be being dumb, but that to me is different than spawning gold into an economy. If it was new gold just being generated than I'd have a huge problem with it
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
Yah know if some guy in my guild wants to spend ass tons of cash for minor and insignificant buffs... well more power to him i will gladly ride his cash wave and enjoy the benefit. I just do not see how this will give him an unfair advantage over me or any other players.
This whole post is one of the haters mountains from a molehill attempts.
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
lol where did this come from?
IMO there will probably be gold sellers still, so you can buy gems in the cash shop, but you can't buy gold, so gold farmers will sell the gold, i personally would rather support ANet but i see what he is saying.
Yeah I thought this thread was about buying gems to buy gold to buy influence.
I was making a point that even without the gems part, people will still buy gold to get the influence if they so wished.
I'd rather my money went back into the game than an external gold selling company.
Ahh ok, so pay money for gold in game to get what gems can get, because you are buying the gems to get what's in the cash shop?
But in order to get gems you must give gold to players in game?
Did I miss something
I've caused confusion by notbposting properly lol.
Not quite.
From what I understand, gems can be used to buy gold, and gems can be brought with cash.
But the gold that gems buy, is coming from players in the game who have earn the gold, pretty much legalised gold farmers.
So it's not newly generated gold. And my point was that if you takeaway the cash shop option, than players will still buy the gold, using the traditional gold farmers we all know and love.
So the argument that guild wars 2 is pay to win cos of the gems for gold issue is kind of....pointless inmy mind
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2 Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR Best MMO: SWG Worst MMO: SWTOR
Just to stir the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
So then why would I sell my gold for some cosmetic crap when I can spend it on stuff that would actually benefit my guild in the game?
If Influence is that important in the game I see most people saving their gold to spend on Influence rather than gems.
I'm just playing devils advocate, but remember there are alot of people that don't care about pvp/influence/min-maxing etc, but love all the costumes, pets etc that would be in a shop, so they might be more inclined to buy gems from people and those people then have extra gold(Via $) to use for anything(including influence).
I understand where you're coming from but I think that the amount of people who would rather use gold to buy in-game bonuses, will be much bigger compared to those who would rather play "Barbie Dress-Up "with their charr.
Originally posted by darkehawke Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by darkehawke Some of these pay to win arguments are getting so flimsy I'm starting to think that some of those arguing loudest with barely a basis to their argument are secret gold farm customers who are annoyed at losing out potentially on an advantage. It is to my understanding, that gems do not bring in new gold, as it is gold that a player has earn already, being bought. Is that no longer the case? Did I miss something?
Yeah because everyone knows that the Cash shop is really a conspiracy devised by ANet and it's loyal customer base to trick ANet's evil master, NCSoft into thinking that there really is a future moneymaking plan in place when everyone knows it's just there for show and isn't really supposed to earn money by not offering anything worth paying real money for. No RMT gold farmer has ever used money that was spawned from nothing. They have always been earned by someone in game. The difference is that farmers will use the game to obtain gold and items to convert into gold (mats and drops) where as ANet is spawning something of value directly into the economy that did not previously exist in game nor was it worked for. But rather is introduced into the economy via credit card. The whole statement about gold being earned by players is a straw-man. it has always been that way. What is it they are spawning into the economy! In my previous experience most cash shop items are no trade and have no effect on the economy. Now I never used gw1 cash shop so I can't comment on it.
This is a similar arguement.
But look at it like this. I need gold and don't have any. You have gold I use real money to buy a gem worth the value of gold you have we trade Now, I have gold, and you have a gem worth the same value as the gold you had before neither of us has nothing.
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
lol where did this come from?
IMO there will probably be gold sellers still, so you can buy gems in the cash shop, but you can't buy gold, so gold farmers will sell the gold, i personally would rather support ANet but i see what he is saying.
Yeah I thought this thread was about buying gems to buy gold to buy influence.
I was making a point that even without the gems part, people will still buy gold to get the influence if they so wished.
I'd rather my money went back into the game than an external gold selling company.
Ahh ok, so pay money for gold in game to get what gems can get, because you are buying the gems to get what's in the cash shop?
But in order to get gems you must give gold to players in game?
Did I miss something
I've caused confusion by notbposting properly lol.
Not quite.
From what I understand, gems can be used to buy gold, and gems can be brought with cash.
But the gold that gems buy, is coming from players in the game who have earn the gold, pretty much legalised gold farmers.
So it's not newly generated gold. And my point was that if you takeaway the cash shop option, than players will still buy the gold, using the traditional gold farmers we all know and love.
So the argument that guild wars 2 is pay to win cos of the gems for gold issue is kind of....pointless inmy mind
Ahh ok lol, I acttually get what you mean.
You have a point, you mean people pay for Gold to get influence, with or without gems, if anything gems like already said negate this being p2w any way, because people would have to play to get gold to buy the gems.
I got another question to, is gold farming done by bots or what's the actual process?
So it's gold farmers one should be concerned about not the gems and cash shop.
Which in fact makes a lot of sense.
Correct me if I'm still being dumb/wrong lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Well, Siege weapons cost some currency in other games too (WAR), I do not think that there is a cause for concern untill we know how easy or hard it is to make the currency needed to buy em.
I think there is much speculation on teh microtransactions announcement, combined with our cynical view of it (with reason from other games)...
But maybe it will not be as bad as it is suggested here, we shall see when the game comes out, if ArenaNet takes P2W approach well..this game will end up like many others after 6 months...but I have a hunch that they are not going down that road.
- Duke Suraknar - Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Just to stur the pot, influence can be bought via gold, and influence can be used to purchase direct buffs to almost every apsect of the game, including buffs in the WvWvW world. ;P
by the guild that buys the buff and only in the immediate area of the tower/keep/castle/supply depot they own.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
lol where did this come from?
IMO there will probably be gold sellers still, so you can buy gems in the cash shop, but you can't buy gold, so gold farmers will sell the gold, i personally would rather support ANet but i see what he is saying.
Yeah I thought this thread was about buying gems to buy gold to buy influence.
I was making a point that even without the gems part, people will still buy gold to get the influence if they so wished.
I'd rather my money went back into the game than an external gold selling company.
Ahh ok, so pay money for gold in game to get what gems can get, because you are buying the gems to get what's in the cash shop?
But in order to get gems you must give gold to players in game?
Did I miss something
I've caused confusion by notbposting properly lol.
Not quite.
From what I understand, gems can be used to buy gold, and gems can be brought with cash.
But the gold that gems buy, is coming from players in the game who have earn the gold, pretty much legalised gold farmers.
So it's not newly generated gold. And my point was that if you takeaway the cash shop option, than players will still buy the gold, using the traditional gold farmers we all know and love.
So the argument that guild wars 2 is pay to win cos of the gems for gold issue is kind of....pointless inmy mind
Ahh ok lol, I acttually get what you mean.
You have a point, you mean people pay for Gold to get influence, with or without gems, if anything gems like already said negate this being p2w any way, because people would have to play to get gold to buy the gems.
I got another question to, is gold farming done by bots or what's the actual process?
So it's gold farmers one should be concerned about not the gems and cash shop.
Which in fact makes a lot of sense.
Correct me if I'm still being dumb/wrong lol.
Kind of yes, even if the CS weren't in game, he is saying people will still buy gold, they will do so by getting it from gold farmers/sellers, 3rd party sites. which they can use that gold to buy influence, or P2W, just it would be P2W via 3rd party, and not ANet. gold farmers typically is just one guy, multiple comps on 1 keyboard and he finds a way to amass a bunch of gold, then sells it on a 3rd party website for real money. or somewhere along those lines.
Correct me if i'm wrong
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Comments
So then why would I sell my gold for some cosmetic crap when I can spend it on stuff that would actually benefit my guild in the game?
If Influence is that important in the game I see most people saving their gold to spend on Influence rather than gems.
Also people will still buy gold even with no cash shop. I'd rather money go back into the game however, rather than gold sellers.
And if you think noone buys gold, than you are deluding yourself.
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
Yeah because everyone knows that the Cash shop is really a conspiracy devised by ANet and it's loyal customer base to trick ANet's evil master, NCSoft into thinking that there really is a future moneymaking plan in place when everyone knows it's just there for show and isn't really supposed to earn money by not offering anything worth paying real money for.
No RMT gold farmer has ever used money that was spawned from nothing. They have always been earned by someone in game. The difference is that farmers will use the game to obtain gold and items to convert into gold (mats and drops) where as ANet is spawning something of value directly into the economy that did not previously exist in game nor was it worked for. But rather is introduced into the economy via credit card.
The whole statement about gold being earned by players is a straw-man. it has always been that way.
Correct on the "Area" but all the buffs are "ALL allies".
i kno people will buy gold, still some from gold farmers also, just saying it wont be p2w or ruin my experience like some think
lol where did this come from?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
correct. bad wording on my part
I'm just playing devils advocate, but remember there are alot of people that don't care about pvp/influence/min-maxing etc, but love all the costumes, pets etc that would be in a shop, so they might be more inclined to buy gems from people and those people then have extra gold(Via $) to use for anything(including influence).
What is it they are spawning into the economy!
In my previous experience most cash shop items are no trade and have no effect on the economy.
Now I never used gw1 cash shop so I can't comment on it.
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
This makes no sense. No matter what the gold stays in the game, doesn't matter if its through gems(Via a player) or just straight buying gold from a RMT company.
IMO there will probably be gold sellers still, so you can buy gems in the cash shop, but you can't buy gold, so gold farmers will sell the gold, i personally would rather support ANet but i see what he is saying.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I'm tired and getting confused with all the whiney threads.
I couldn't wait for this game to come out to play it. Now I can't wait for it to come out so this argument is settled once and for all
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
Yeah I thought this thread was about buying gems to buy gold to buy influence.
I was making a point that even without the gems part, people will still buy gold to get the influence if they so wished.
I'd rather my money went back into the game than an external gold selling company.
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
The actual items in the shop will probably not be a issue. Some people have concerns with the boost/keys/loot chest but kinda of minor overall.
The most pressing concern I see from most people who are apprehensiable about the cash shop and the problems it "might" create has to deal with the fact that you can buy gems(the shop currency) with $, then sell those gems to players for gold. In a sense you are buying gold for $ from players legally, almost like a RMT shop but without the middle man and its OK by Anet. Yes there are some variables invovled such as supply/demand and the conversion ratio, also how important "currency" is(how hard it is to get + money sinks), but its no different then straight $ > gold, which also deals with the same concerns.
Both sides have ground to stand on, and no one really knows what could or can happen, time will time. But just sweeping it under the rug like most people do(mostly the fanboys desperately trying to white knight any slightly negative perceptions) is just as wrong. It will be interesting to see how it works out and if problems crop up. But its better now for players to express these potential issues then just sticking your head in the ground.
Ok UO had no guild chat, whispers, AH or many other things so that must mean they were left out due to integrity of the game. So lets remove all of that. Also instanced dungeons. But it did have open world hardcore pvp. Based on your bizarre post that means that is good for the integrity of the game so all MMOs should have that.
Ahh ok, so pay money for gold in game to get what gems can get, because you are buying the gems to get what's in the cash shop?
But in order to get gems you must give gold to players in game?
Did I miss something
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Already been covered, Minor defensive buffs, only work at a keep that the guild owns. You can only own one.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Yeah but that isn't spawning gold is it. It's more like moving gold from one location to another. One player loses the gold and another player gains it rather then one player keeps gold and another player gains it.
I may be being dumb, but that to me is different than spawning gold into an economy. If it was new gold just being generated than I'd have a huge problem with it
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
Yah know if some guy in my guild wants to spend ass tons of cash for minor and insignificant buffs... well more power to him i will gladly ride his cash wave and enjoy the benefit. I just do not see how this will give him an unfair advantage over me or any other players.
This whole post is one of the haters mountains from a molehill attempts.
Lolipops !
I've caused confusion by notbposting properly lol.
Not quite.
From what I understand, gems can be used to buy gold, and gems can be brought with cash.
But the gold that gems buy, is coming from players in the game who have earn the gold, pretty much legalised gold farmers.
So it's not newly generated gold. And my point was that if you takeaway the cash shop option, than players will still buy the gold, using the traditional gold farmers we all know and love.
So the argument that guild wars 2 is pay to win cos of the gems for gold issue is kind of....pointless inmy mind
Currently playing- SWG PreCU & GW 2
Have tried WoW, AoC, & Vanguard, SWG:NGE, GW, LOTRO & SWTOR
Best MMO: SWG
Worst MMO: SWTOR
I understand where you're coming from but I think that the amount of people who would rather use gold to buy in-game bonuses, will be much bigger compared to those who would rather play "Barbie Dress-Up "with their charr.
Edit: Confused myself LOL
Yeah because everyone knows that the Cash shop is really a conspiracy devised by ANet and it's loyal customer base to trick ANet's evil master, NCSoft into thinking that there really is a future moneymaking plan in place when everyone knows it's just there for show and isn't really supposed to earn money by not offering anything worth paying real money for.
No RMT gold farmer has ever used money that was spawned from nothing. They have always been earned by someone in game. The difference is that farmers will use the game to obtain gold and items to convert into gold (mats and drops) where as ANet is spawning something of value directly into the economy that did not previously exist in game nor was it worked for. But rather is introduced into the economy via credit card.
The whole statement about gold being earned by players is a straw-man. it has always been that way.
What is it they are spawning into the economy!
In my previous experience most cash shop items are no trade and have no effect on the economy.
Now I never used gw1 cash shop so I can't comment on it.
This is a similar arguement.
But look at it like this.
I need gold and don't have any.
You have gold
I use real money to buy a gem worth the value of gold you have
we trade
Now, I have gold, and you have a gem worth the same value as the gold you had before
neither of us has nothing.
Ahh ok lol, I acttually get what you mean.
You have a point, you mean people pay for Gold to get influence, with or without gems, if anything gems like already said negate this being p2w any way, because people would have to play to get gold to buy the gems.
I got another question to, is gold farming done by bots or what's the actual process?
So it's gold farmers one should be concerned about not the gems and cash shop.
Which in fact makes a lot of sense.
Correct me if I'm still being dumb/wrong lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Well, Siege weapons cost some currency in other games too (WAR), I do not think that there is a cause for concern untill we know how easy or hard it is to make the currency needed to buy em.
I think there is much speculation on teh microtransactions announcement, combined with our cynical view of it (with reason from other games)...
But maybe it will not be as bad as it is suggested here, we shall see when the game comes out, if ArenaNet takes P2W approach well..this game will end up like many others after 6 months...but I have a hunch that they are not going down that road.
Order of the Silver Star, OSS
ESKA, Playing MMORPG's since Ultima Online 1997 - Order of the Silver Serpent, Atlantic Shard
Kind of yes, even if the CS weren't in game, he is saying people will still buy gold, they will do so by getting it from gold farmers/sellers, 3rd party sites. which they can use that gold to buy influence, or P2W, just it would be P2W via 3rd party, and not ANet. gold farmers typically is just one guy, multiple comps on 1 keyboard and he finds a way to amass a bunch of gold, then sells it on a 3rd party website for real money. or somewhere along those lines.
Correct me if i'm wrong
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.