How does an experience boost break the WvWvW? maybe a guy can only play 3hrs a day, so he buys a boost. When youre all cap level anyway, whats the matter? You have to BUY gems WITH gold. You cannot go to an NPC and transfer gems to gold, someone still has to farm the gold. I see nothing wrong with it. I may just buy 100gems just to laugh at you people.
Its like groundhog day here. Go educate yourself on the RvRvR system and the various gold-based advantages. Switching the argument to "EXP boosters" is exactly the tactic I discussed a few posts ago. We are not talking about EXP boosters when we are complaining about RvRvR pay2win...
Originally posted by Unlight OK, GW2 is P2W. I want it to be P2W. Argue with that.
I said these are unknowns as of yet... I didn't say it's P2W, They are things to watch out for but no one said they are going to happen.
If you don't feel that the cash shop situation needs to be watched, well, that's good for you it's good you don't see anything to worry about. There are some who feel that it's an important part of what is going on and have enough reason to be watchful for any mistakes by ANet. Be they intended or not. And can have a negative impact on the game.
All games are P2W because there are 3rd party gold sellers. In any other game out there a person can buy gold and turn that into an advantage. In WoW I've heard talk of people buying their way into raid spot to get gear tokens.
With GW2, they're legitimizing a transaction that they couldn't have stopped anyway. There are three undeniable positives that come from this. First, it's that people who do want to buy gold can go through ArenaNet and not have to worry about being hacked. Second, it's that account services are now available to people like me who don't want to spend any additional money. Instead of spending an extra $10, I can now use the gold that I earned as a byproduct of enjoying the game to buy a character slot instead. Third, ArenaNet gets the money instead of the 3rd party.
Here's an article that talks about the revenue that Puzzle Pirates earns being F2P. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23970 Something like 95% of F2P people pay nothing, but their money comes from the 5% of players who pay an average of $50 a month. $50 per month! On Puzzle Pirates!
ArenaNet has drawn a line where they're NEVER going to offer unfair advantage or make people feel like they need to use the shop. If ArenaNet can offer some miniscule advantages in terms of time saving to the kind of people who have an abundance of cash and want to spend lots of it, then I'm totally fine with that. It means that the 95% of us don't have to pay any subscriptions, we don't even have to pay for account services, ArenaNet gets the money to further support their games. Everybody wins.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
The difference is that the cash is not introducing anything into the game that isn't already available (except those little consumables, but they can be made in game as well).
Pay2Win = My cash buys something that gets added to the game and gives me a new advantage.
Not Pay2Win = My cash transfers about pre-existing things in the game adding no new advantages.
I didn't say it's P2W, They are things to watch out for but no one said they are going to happen.
If you don't feel that the cash shop situation needs to be watched, well, that's good for you it's good you don't see anything to worry about. There are some who feel that it's an important part of what is going on and have enough reason to be watchful for any mistakes by ANet. Be they intended or not. And can have a negative impact on the game.
people are not watching, there posting grossly misleading topics about games most of them claim to supposedly like, and anyone without the time or not caring to look up info on the game will take this as fact and stay away from the game. that is the only reason i post my opinions on it
Can there be a problem at some time yes, should you keep an eye on it, yes. As of right now is it a problem, no.
Originally posted by Unlight OK, GW2 is P2W. I want it to be P2W. Argue with that.
I said these are unknowns as of yet... I didn't say it's P2W, They are things to watch out for but no one said they are going to happen.
If you don't feel that the cash shop situation needs to be watched, well, that's good for you it's good you don't see anything to worry about. There are some who feel that it's an important part of what is going on and have enough reason to be watchful for any mistakes by ANet. Be they intended or not. And can have a negative impact on the game.
My worry would be the beta, if all the testers go in with the thank you Anet hat on then what is released may be worse than a best case scenario.
How does an experience boost break the WvWvW? maybe a guy can only play 3hrs a day, so he buys a boost. When youre all cap level anyway, whats the matter? You have to BUY gems WITH gold. You cannot go to an NPC and transfer gems to gold, someone still has to farm the gold. I see nothing wrong with it. I may just buy 100gems just to laugh at you people.
Its like groundhog day here. Go educate yourself on the RvRvR system and the various gold-based advantages. Switching the argument to "EXP boosters" is exactly the tactic I discussed a few posts ago. We are not talking about EXP boosters when we are complaining about RvRvR pay2win...
I have educated myself and can now see I was misinforminated about GW2
You jest, but I was in an argument just a couple days ago where a GW2 defender was vehemently calling me ignorant and a troll. She then realized what an actual mystic key was and admitted "yeah that would suck"
So being informed on both sides is a prerequisite to an honest debate. Blind faith in a corporation because you liked a previous game is one way to fall asleep at the switch. NOW is the time to argue for the best possible game. "Thank you sir may I have another" attitude will just let the greediest win. Some key players at Anet that were behind GW1 are no longer there, if you didn't realize.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Hey that was my argument in a different thread. Get your own argument -_-
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
And here's the bigger problem. You are so stuck in your mindset that you can't even see neither of us is being serious. So there is simply no point in arguing with youl.
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
The difference is that the cash is not introducing anything into the game that isn't already available (except those little consumables, but they can be made in game as well).
Pay2Win = My cash buys something that gets added to the game and gives me a new advantage.
Not Pay2Win = My cash transfers about pre-existing things in the game adding no new advantages.
Yes, your definition is a Korean MMO grinder. Until GW2, everybody considered them pay2win. Now I guess they are esport...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by Volkon Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh let me rephrase this: It creates value from nothing I have nothing, you have gold. I buy a gem from CS. Now you buy Gem I have gold. You have gem worth same value in gold Nobody has nothing.
No... you have cash, I have gold. You buy gems with that cash, I have gold still. We trade gems and gold. You have gold, I have gems. I buy character slot from store. You have gold, I have character slot. Gems are gone.
What you have just given me is an example of one of the sinks I was questioning.
Hey that was my argument in a different thread. Get your own argument -_-
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
And here's the bigger problem. You are so stuck in your mindset that you can't even see neither of us is being serious. So there is simply no point in arguing with youl.
Yeah, I had no idea you weren't being serious . I just thought after 500 straight fanboy posts you decided to make a 180 degree turn on a dime. I was just iterating how it would be so much more honest and valid debate not to have to first work our way through twisted logic about how what GW2 is doing is so different than all the other pay2win games out there.
Because grinding for advantages you can otherwise buy in a cash shop is the heart of most pay2win games out there, including the Korean F2P grinders.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
How does an experience boost break the WvWvW? maybe a guy can only play 3hrs a day, so he buys a boost. When youre all cap level anyway, whats the matter? You have to BUY gems WITH gold. You cannot go to an NPC and transfer gems to gold, someone still has to farm the gold. I see nothing wrong with it. I may just buy 100gems just to laugh at you people.
Its like groundhog day here. Go educate yourself on the RvRvR system and the various gold-based advantages. Switching the argument to "EXP boosters" is exactly the tactic I discussed a few posts ago. We are not talking about EXP boosters when we are complaining about RvRvR pay2win...
I have educated myself and can now see I was misinforminated about GW2
You jest, but I was in an argument just a couple days ago where a GW2 defender was vehemently calling me ignorant and a troll. She then realized what an actual mystic key was and admitted "yeah that would suck"
That was me, and yes, I said it would suck but that was before I knew you could get them IN GAME. It's not that sucky now.
If the only conceivable way to open those boxes was to pay, then I'd have a problem with it.
How does an experience boost break the WvWvW? maybe a guy can only play 3hrs a day, so he buys a boost. When youre all cap level anyway, whats the matter? You have to BUY gems WITH gold. You cannot go to an NPC and transfer gems to gold, someone still has to farm the gold. I see nothing wrong with it. I may just buy 100gems just to laugh at you people.
Its like groundhog day here. Go educate yourself on the RvRvR system and the various gold-based advantages. Switching the argument to "EXP boosters" is exactly the tactic I discussed a few posts ago. We are not talking about EXP boosters when we are complaining about RvRvR pay2win...
I have educated myself and can now see I was misinforminated about GW2
You jest, but I was in an argument just a couple days ago where a GW2 defender was vehemently calling me ignorant and a troll. She then realized what an actual mystic key was and admitted "yeah that would suck"
That was me, and yes, I said it would suck but that was before I knew you could get them IN GAME. It's not that sucky now.
If the only conceivable way to open those boxes was to pay, then I'd have a problem with it.
I wasn't going to call you specifically out but admire you admitted it again. Point was don't call others ignorant unless you actually have the facts behind the debate. Those of us who are against the cash shop, at least many of us, are very well informed
The crux of the debate is on what you consider pay2win and/or what is just plain crass...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Hey that was my argument in a different thread. Get your own argument -_-
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
What is universally considered pay2win that is in the GW2 CS? As I found on my topic asking what the definition of Pay2Win is, there is no universally accepted definition. Most people do agree, though, that it depends on the game you're playing. It's a very subjective definition.
Most of the things in the GW2 CS that some people are calling pay2win are the boosters. I've never considered those things pay2win outside of PvP situations and have found that a lot of people agree with that assessment. So, your argument is incorrect just based on that.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
The difference is that the cash is not introducing anything into the game that isn't already available (except those little consumables, but they can be made in game as well).
Pay2Win = My cash buys something that gets added to the game and gives me a new advantage.
Not Pay2Win = My cash transfers about pre-existing things in the game adding no new advantages.
Yes, your definition is a Korean MMO grinder. Until GW2, everybody considered them pay2win. Now I guess they are esport...
You're not actually listening, you're just pretending to. Everything in the cash shop is available through in game gold via the purchase of gems. Including these non-existent advantages you keep barking about. In Korean grinders, they're only available one way. $$$.
Sure, you have a right to have issues with a cash shop in general, but not giving ANet the credit they're due for allowing 100% choice in how you attain something is misleading, which is why I wonder what you have against them.
How does an experience boost break the WvWvW? maybe a guy can only play 3hrs a day, so he buys a boost. When youre all cap level anyway, whats the matter? You have to BUY gems WITH gold. You cannot go to an NPC and transfer gems to gold, someone still has to farm the gold. I see nothing wrong with it. I may just buy 100gems just to laugh at you people.
Its like groundhog day here. Go educate yourself on the RvRvR system and the various gold-based advantages. Switching the argument to "EXP boosters" is exactly the tactic I discussed a few posts ago. We are not talking about EXP boosters when we are complaining about RvRvR pay2win...
I have educated myself and can now see I was misinforminated about GW2
You jest, but I was in an argument just a couple days ago where a GW2 defender was vehemently calling me ignorant and a troll. She then realized what an actual mystic key was and admitted "yeah that would suck"
That was me, and yes, I said it would suck but that was before I knew you could get them IN GAME. It's not that sucky now.
If the only conceivable way to open those boxes was to pay, then I'd have a problem with it.
That would have evil cash shop written all over it and i doubt you will find people who would say otherwise. Would it stop you from playing the game though is the real question? I would hate and rage, but i would probbaly still play it and i am sure thats shame on me for admitting it.
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
How does an experience boost break the WvWvW? maybe a guy can only play 3hrs a day, so he buys a boost. When youre all cap level anyway, whats the matter? You have to BUY gems WITH gold. You cannot go to an NPC and transfer gems to gold, someone still has to farm the gold. I see nothing wrong with it. I may just buy 100gems just to laugh at you people.
Its like groundhog day here. Go educate yourself on the RvRvR system and the various gold-based advantages. Switching the argument to "EXP boosters" is exactly the tactic I discussed a few posts ago. We are not talking about EXP boosters when we are complaining about RvRvR pay2win...
I have educated myself and can now see I was misinforminated about GW2
You jest, but I was in an argument just a couple days ago where a GW2 defender was vehemently calling me ignorant and a troll. She then realized what an actual mystic key was and admitted "yeah that would suck"
That was me, and yes, I said it would suck but that was before I knew you could get them IN GAME. It's not that sucky now.
If the only conceivable way to open those boxes was to pay, then I'd have a problem with it.
I wasn't going to call you specifically out but admire you admitted it again. Point was don't call others ignorant unless you actually have the facts behind the debate. Those of us who are against the cash shop, at least many of us, are very well informed
The crux of the debate is on what you consider pay2win and/or what is just plain crass...
You didn't even answer my post... I didn't know about the keys but the fact is it didn't matter. The poster I responded to in that thread claimed you could only open boxes by paying real money, which is not true.
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
The difference is that the cash is not introducing anything into the game that isn't already available (except those little consumables, but they can be made in game as well).
Pay2Win = My cash buys something that gets added to the game and gives me a new advantage.
Not Pay2Win = My cash transfers about pre-existing things in the game adding no new advantages.
Yes, your definition is a Korean MMO grinder. Until GW2, everybody considered them pay2win. Now I guess they are esport...
You're not actually listening, you're just pretending to. Everything in the cash shop is available through in game gold via the purchase of gems. Including these non-existent advantages you keep barking about. In Korean grinders, they're only available one way. $$$.
Sure, you have a right to have issues with a cash shop in general, but not giving ANet the credit they're due for allowing 100% choice in how you attain something is misleading, which is why I wonder what you have against them.
the really cool thing is most if not all of them are available even without purchasing gems with gold. (minus the cosmetics)
the really cool thing is most if not all of them are available even without purchasing gems with gold. (minus the cosmetics)
Exactly. What other cash shop based MMO allows you to buy extra character slots and bag room via either A.) Money or B.) Time? None that I can think of. Even the first Guild Wars made you pay for character slots. There was no "for gold" option. Things have gotten better, not worse.
Everyone acknowledged that the CS is in beta and is therefore going to be different than what we saw.
If you believe in NCSOFT/ANet then you can say, They have a history of being responsible in their cash shop in other games, we have seen what they have in the cash shop that was leaked and it's a good indicator that they are going to hold to their ideal and only put items in the shop that save time etc etc.
Or you could be a bit more cynncal.
Saying, they knew dam well that their cash shop was going to be leaked and have not revealed all their cards yet. There are still surprises yet to come. For example an item in the cash shop that affects the amount of supply that can be carried. (That's an extreme example by the way)
Either way, it's all speculation....But don't you at least feel it's something you want to watch?
Lol i didnt even know that GW 2 will have a cash shop(havent done much research lately).I was really looking forward to it ,too bad i wont even touch it now,ill stick to WoW which even with its flaws its still the KING.
And also has a CS.... Nice logic you have there.
You cant compare WoW's CS with GW's. WoW's cash shop doesnt affect me in any way while GW's would if i would play it.
Everyone acknowledged that the CS is in beta and is therefore going to be different than what we saw.
If you believe in NCSOFT/ANet then you can say, They have a history of being responsible in their cash shop in other games, we have seen what they have in the cash shop that was leaked and it's a good indicator that they are going to hold to their ideal and only put items in the shop that save time etc etc.
Or you could be a bit more cynncal.
Saying, they knew dam well that their cash shop was going to be leaked and have not revealed all their cards yet. There are still surprises yet to come. For example an item in the cash shop that affects the amount of supply that can be carried. (That's an extreme example by the way)
Either way, it's all speculation....But don't you at least feel it's something you want to watch?
No, I dont.
Simpy because Anet knows full well, if they sell an advantage in thier CS, the game will be finished.
Lol i didnt even know that GW 2 will have a cash shop(havent done much research lately).I was really looking forward to it ,too bad i wont even touch it now,ill stick to WoW which even with its flaws its still the KING.
And also has a CS.... Nice logic you have there.
You cant compare WoW's CS with GW's. WoW's cash shop doesnt affect me in any way while GW's would if i would play it.
Being able to purchase a mount that every one of your characters has and that automatically upgrades itself as you level doesn't affect your game in any way? Huh... I used the hell out of those Sparkle Ponies when levelling alts. Definitely sped my levelling up.
Everyone acknowledged that the CS is in beta and is therefore going to be different than what we saw.
If you believe in NCSOFT/ANet then you can say, They have a history of being responsible in their cash shop in other games, we have seen what they have in the cash shop that was leaked and it's a good indicator that they are going to hold to their ideal and only put items in the shop that save time etc etc.
Or you could be a bit more cynncal.
Saying, they knew dam well that their cash shop was going to be leaked and have not revealed all their cards yet. There are still surprises yet to come. For example an item in the cash shop that affects the amount of supply that can be carried. (That's an extreme example by the way)
Either way, it's all speculation....But don't you at least feel it's something you want to watch?
No, I dont.
Simpy because Anet knows full well, if they sell an advantage in thier CS, the game will be finished.
You claim this as they sell xp boosts and karma boosts in the shop, and tons of people seem fine with them selling out like that... We aren't in cosmetic shop only anymore , toto
Comments
No... you have cash, I have gold.
You buy gems with that cash, I have gold still.
We trade gems and gold.
You have gold, I have gems.
I buy character slot from store. You have gold, I have character slot. Gems are gone.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Its like groundhog day here. Go educate yourself on the RvRvR system and the various gold-based advantages. Switching the argument to "EXP boosters" is exactly the tactic I discussed a few posts ago. We are not talking about EXP boosters when we are complaining about RvRvR pay2win...
Edit: removed due to confusionI didn't say it's P2W, They are things to watch out for but no one said they are going to happen.
If you don't feel that the cash shop situation needs to be watched, well, that's good for you it's good you don't see anything to worry about. There are some who feel that it's an important part of what is going on and have enough reason to be watchful for any mistakes by ANet. Be they intended or not. And can have a negative impact on the game.
All games are P2W because there are 3rd party gold sellers. In any other game out there a person can buy gold and turn that into an advantage. In WoW I've heard talk of people buying their way into raid spot to get gear tokens.
With GW2, they're legitimizing a transaction that they couldn't have stopped anyway. There are three undeniable positives that come from this. First, it's that people who do want to buy gold can go through ArenaNet and not have to worry about being hacked. Second, it's that account services are now available to people like me who don't want to spend any additional money. Instead of spending an extra $10, I can now use the gold that I earned as a byproduct of enjoying the game to buy a character slot instead. Third, ArenaNet gets the money instead of the 3rd party.
Here's an article that talks about the revenue that Puzzle Pirates earns being F2P. http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=23970 Something like 95% of F2P people pay nothing, but their money comes from the 5% of players who pay an average of $50 a month. $50 per month! On Puzzle Pirates!
ArenaNet has drawn a line where they're NEVER going to offer unfair advantage or make people feel like they need to use the shop. If ArenaNet can offer some miniscule advantages in terms of time saving to the kind of people who have an abundance of cash and want to spend lots of it, then I'm totally fine with that. It means that the 95% of us don't have to pay any subscriptions, we don't even have to pay for account services, ArenaNet gets the money to further support their games. Everybody wins.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
The difference is that the cash is not introducing anything into the game that isn't already available (except those little consumables, but they can be made in game as well).
Pay2Win = My cash buys something that gets added to the game and gives me a new advantage.
Not Pay2Win = My cash transfers about pre-existing things in the game adding no new advantages.
Oderint, dum metuant.
people are not watching, there posting grossly misleading topics about games most of them claim to supposedly like, and anyone without the time or not caring to look up info on the game will take this as fact and stay away from the game. that is the only reason i post my opinions on it
Can there be a problem at some time yes, should you keep an eye on it, yes. As of right now is it a problem, no.
I didn't say it's P2W, They are things to watch out for but no one said they are going to happen.
If you don't feel that the cash shop situation needs to be watched, well, that's good for you it's good you don't see anything to worry about. There are some who feel that it's an important part of what is going on and have enough reason to be watchful for any mistakes by ANet. Be they intended or not. And can have a negative impact on the game.
My worry would be the beta, if all the testers go in with the thank you Anet hat on then what is released may be worse than a best case scenario.You jest, but I was in an argument just a couple days ago where a GW2 defender was vehemently calling me ignorant and a troll. She then realized what an actual mystic key was and admitted "yeah that would suck"
So being informed on both sides is a prerequisite to an honest debate. Blind faith in a corporation because you liked a previous game is one way to fall asleep at the switch. NOW is the time to argue for the best possible game. "Thank you sir may I have another" attitude will just let the greediest win. Some key players at Anet that were behind GW1 are no longer there, if you didn't realize.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
And here's the bigger problem. You are so stuck in your mindset that you can't even see neither of us is being serious. So there is simply no point in arguing with youl.
Yes, your definition is a Korean MMO grinder. Until GW2, everybody considered them pay2win. Now I guess they are esport...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
You buy gems with that cash, I have gold still.
We trade gems and gold.
You have gold, I have gems.
I buy character slot from store. You have gold, I have character slot. Gems are gone.
What you have just given me is an example of one of the sinks I was questioning.
Yeah, I had no idea you weren't being serious . I just thought after 500 straight fanboy posts you decided to make a 180 degree turn on a dime. I was just iterating how it would be so much more honest and valid debate not to have to first work our way through twisted logic about how what GW2 is doing is so different than all the other pay2win games out there.
Because grinding for advantages you can otherwise buy in a cash shop is the heart of most pay2win games out there, including the Korean F2P grinders.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
That was me, and yes, I said it would suck but that was before I knew you could get them IN GAME. It's not that sucky now.
If the only conceivable way to open those boxes was to pay, then I'd have a problem with it.
I wasn't going to call you specifically out but admire you admitted it again. Point was don't call others ignorant unless you actually have the facts behind the debate. Those of us who are against the cash shop, at least many of us, are very well informed
The crux of the debate is on what you consider pay2win and/or what is just plain crass...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
What is universally considered pay2win that is in the GW2 CS? As I found on my topic asking what the definition of Pay2Win is, there is no universally accepted definition. Most people do agree, though, that it depends on the game you're playing. It's a very subjective definition.
Most of the things in the GW2 CS that some people are calling pay2win are the boosters. I've never considered those things pay2win outside of PvP situations and have found that a lot of people agree with that assessment. So, your argument is incorrect just based on that.
You want me to pay to play a game I already paid for???
Be afraid.....The dragons are HERE!
You're not actually listening, you're just pretending to. Everything in the cash shop is available through in game gold via the purchase of gems. Including these non-existent advantages you keep barking about. In Korean grinders, they're only available one way. $$$.
Sure, you have a right to have issues with a cash shop in general, but not giving ANet the credit they're due for allowing 100% choice in how you attain something is misleading, which is why I wonder what you have against them.
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
You didn't even answer my post... I didn't know about the keys but the fact is it didn't matter. The poster I responded to in that thread claimed you could only open boxes by paying real money, which is not true.
Why are you avoiding that?
the really cool thing is most if not all of them are available even without purchasing gems with gold. (minus the cosmetics)
Exactly. What other cash shop based MMO allows you to buy extra character slots and bag room via either A.) Money or B.) Time? None that I can think of. Even the first Guild Wars made you pay for character slots. There was no "for gold" option. Things have gotten better, not worse.
Everyone acknowledged that the CS is in beta and is therefore going to be different than what we saw.
If you believe in NCSOFT/ANet then you can say, They have a history of being responsible in their cash shop in other games, we have seen what they have in the cash shop that was leaked and it's a good indicator that they are going to hold to their ideal and only put items in the shop that save time etc etc.
Or you could be a bit more cynncal.
Saying, they knew dam well that their cash shop was going to be leaked and have not revealed all their cards yet. There are still surprises yet to come. For example an item in the cash shop that affects the amount of supply that can be carried. (That's an extreme example by the way)
Either way, it's all speculation....But don't you at least feel it's something you want to watch?
You cant compare WoW's CS with GW's. WoW's cash shop doesnt affect me in any way while GW's would if i would play it.
No, I dont.
Simpy because Anet knows full well, if they sell an advantage in thier CS, the game will be finished.
Being able to purchase a mount that every one of your characters has and that automatically upgrades itself as you level doesn't affect your game in any way? Huh... I used the hell out of those Sparkle Ponies when levelling alts. Definitely sped my levelling up.
No one cared either.
Oderint, dum metuant.
You claim this as they sell xp boosts and karma boosts in the shop, and tons of people seem fine with them selling out like that... We aren't in cosmetic shop only anymore , toto