I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
So far they haven't been going anywhere. I can't wait to see the next one, it's like watching a movie, I don't even know if half of the complainers are serious or just entertaining.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
Certain forums there are tons fo threads about how evolution is flawed and creationism is right blah blah... it doesn't make them right just because they believe it or post alot. People are adept at ignoring facts when they don't suit their personal version of reality.
You can claim there are many flaws in the cash shop and create a hundred threads about it. Opinion doesn't become fact if you yell it loudly enough. No one to date has demonstrated any actual pay to win elements. Hell, those trying to claim there is can't even define what "win" means in their "pay to win" mindsets. Example is the influence and buffs. You can't take a fort or keep using said buffs... either you left them at the keep you hold or you don't have a keep yet to buff you with (which would still be left at that keep), so you can't win another point of interest using the buffs. You can get a defensive boost, same as anyone else, that applies to your entire server in the vicinity of the keep. That won't stop a determined force from taking the keep anyhow if you're not there to defend it in sufficient numbers, thus the buffs are destroyed. There has been NOTHING that demonstrates a "win" that can be purchased.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
FALSE.. they are not "previewing" it in beta. There is a NDA. They are testing it, REviewing it, but they would rather it not be veiwed by the public because they are not done with it. I know in your head you are 100% right and on a holy mission to save us from the evil of cash shops.. but untill they come out and say "this is what it is going to be, come preview it", it is all just theorycraft.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
There aren't any fatal flaws, just a bunch of people who either don't understand how the game works or are so broke they don't want anyone to buy anything. All of these threads are people posting based on faulty logic, getting shown why it's faulty, then screaming "BUT ITS P2W". I've played many f2p games, including ROM, and GW2's cash shop isn't even on the radar of p2w or majorly impacting gameplay, anyone who says's otherwise is just making up drama.
XP boost- Only works on mob kills for an hour so it's a very tiny boost. Doesn't impact competitive PvP, doesn't matter in PvE, and will only provide a tiny advantage in WvW until you know...everyone hits max.
Rez stone- only works while in PvE open world where you're more than likely not going to flat out die and even if you do there are waypoints nearby.
Gems to money- That money needs to be farmed by players regardless and it provides no real advantage other than not spending 30mins to farm some money that you don't really need to farm anyway.
Item box- all items you will find in the world and no garauntee what item you get.
Every single item in the cash shop is either vanity, convienance, or saves a small amount of time that if you have the time doesn't matter. It's like taking an escalator or the stairs, one can be slightly faster but you get to the same place.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
So far they haven't been going anywhere. I can't wait to see the next one, it's like watching a movie, I don't even know if half of the complainers are serious or just entertaining.
The good thing is that these posts won't stop. I mean, there are people who still believe that GW1 has a P2W cash shop. After all these years of that game being around...
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
Certain forums there are tons fo threads about how evolution is flawed and creationism is right blah blah... it doesn't make them right just because they believe it or post alot. People are adept at ignoring facts when they don't suit their personal version of reality.
You can claim there are many flaws in the cash shop and create a hundred threads about it. Opinion doesn't become fact if you yell it loudly enough. No one to date has demonstrated any actual pay to win elements. Hell, those trying to claim there is can't even define what "win" means in their "pay to win" mindsets. Example is the influence and buffs. You can't take a fort or keep using said buffs... either you left them at the keep you hold or you don't have a keep yet to buff you with (which would still be left at that keep), so you can't win another point of interest using the buffs. You can get a defensive boost, same as anyone else, that applies to your entire server in the vicinity of the keep. That won't stop a determined force from taking the keep anyhow if you're not there to defend it in sufficient numbers, thus the buffs are destroyed. There has been NOTHING that demonstrates a "win" that can be purchased.
This is true now I'm sure he just blocked you or is ignoring what's said is we could give detailed reasons why it's not p2w or to get an advantage but they have yet to produce several detailed sensible flaws. I'm still waiting on gaine to give his, so far he's agreeing in another thread about something that isn't even true. I'm stil waiting.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
There aren't any fatal flaws, just a bunch of people who either don't understand how the game works or are so broke they don't want anyone to buy anything. All of these threads are people posting based on faulty logic, getting shown why it's faulty, then screaming "BUT ITS P2W". I've played many f2p games, including ROM, and GW2's cash shop isn't even on the radar of p2w or majorly impacting gameplay, anyone who says's otherwise is just making up drama.
XP boost- Only works on mob kills for an hour so it's a very tiny boost. Doesn't impact competitive PvP, doesn't matter in PvE, and will only provide a tiny advantage in WvW until you know...everyone hits max.
Rez stone- only works while in PvE open world where you're more than likely not going to flat out die and even if you do there are waypoints nearby.
Gems to money- That money needs to be farmed by players regardless and it provides no real advantage other than not spending 30mins to farm some money that you don't really need to farm anyway.
Item box- all items you will find in the world and no garauntee what item you get.
Every single item in the cash shop is either vanity, convienance, or saves a small amount of time that if you have the time doesn't matter. It's like taking an escalator or the stairs, one can be slightly faster but you get to the same place.
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
There aren't any fatal flaws, just a bunch of people who either don't understand how the game works or are so broke they don't want anyone to buy anything. All of these threads are people posting based on faulty logic, getting shown why it's faulty, then screaming "BUT ITS P2W". I've played many f2p games, including ROM, and GW2's cash shop isn't even on the radar of p2w or majorly impacting gameplay, anyone who says's otherwise is just making up drama.
XP boost- Only works on mob kills for an hour so it's a very tiny boost. Doesn't impact competitive PvP, doesn't matter in PvE, and will only provide a tiny advantage in WvW until you know...everyone hits max.
Rez stone- only works while in PvE open world where you're more than likely not going to flat out die and even if you do there are waypoints nearby.
Gems to money- That money needs to be farmed by players regardless and it provides no real advantage other than not spending 30mins to farm some money that you don't really need to farm anyway.
Item box- all items you will find in the world and no garauntee what item you get.
Every single item in the cash shop is either vanity, convienance, or saves a small amount of time that if you have the time doesn't matter. It's like taking an escalator or the stairs, one can be slightly faster but you get to the same place.
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
This.
If I could share with you folks what I've been told I would likely convince a majority that there is a problem with the current cash shop. Pay for advantages (power, winning, cheating, whatever) does exist. This is an empirical fact. 10% more whatever for paying is more than the standard rate of 0% more whatever for just playing. That is an advantage, no matter how much mental masturbation you go through to tell yourself it isn't.
You're either okay with buying advantages or you aren't. Once you decide which side of that debate you're on you need to be honest with yourself and others about it.
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
So where do you place guild keep bonuses you can pay with coin? It's the same effect and has the same origin.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
There aren't any fatal flaws, just a bunch of people who either don't understand how the game works or are so broke they don't want anyone to buy anything. All of these threads are people posting based on faulty logic, getting shown why it's faulty, then screaming "BUT ITS P2W". I've played many f2p games, including ROM, and GW2's cash shop isn't even on the radar of p2w or majorly impacting gameplay, anyone who says's otherwise is just making up drama.
XP boost- Only works on mob kills for an hour so it's a very tiny boost. Doesn't impact competitive PvP, doesn't matter in PvE, and will only provide a tiny advantage in WvW until you know...everyone hits max.
Rez stone- only works while in PvE open world where you're more than likely not going to flat out die and even if you do there are waypoints nearby.
Gems to money- That money needs to be farmed by players regardless and it provides no real advantage other than not spending 30mins to farm some money that you don't really need to farm anyway.
Item box- all items you will find in the world and no garauntee what item you get.
Every single item in the cash shop is either vanity, convienance, or saves a small amount of time that if you have the time doesn't matter. It's like taking an escalator or the stairs, one can be slightly faster but you get to the same place.
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
YES you "CAN" P2W, but you can allso P2W (PLAY TO WIN), you can either...
1. spend RLM to buy bonuses,
2. Spend in game money to buy bonuses
is it PAY2WIN? i guess in your opinion yes, because in your opinion it seems everyone has to pay with real money to get these advantages, when the only way to get them is gold no? or influence, which you have to have gold, which you CAN NOT buy, you can trade with other players, who farmed gold, to get your gold to pay to win, or those players that would trade the gold for gems could rather spend it on influence to get buffs or whatever, i'm not saying you are wrong, i'm saying there is another way than JUST pay and get those bonuses, so in "some" sense to some people it is pay2win, but it all depends on how many gems will really be sold on the market.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
I just love all these, "AHA! We've found the fatal flaw!" threads. Too funny. I'm so going to own these guys with my Carnival Ringmaster Hat.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
There aren't any fatal flaws, just a bunch of people who either don't understand how the game works or are so broke they don't want anyone to buy anything. All of these threads are people posting based on faulty logic, getting shown why it's faulty, then screaming "BUT ITS P2W". I've played many f2p games, including ROM, and GW2's cash shop isn't even on the radar of p2w or majorly impacting gameplay, anyone who says's otherwise is just making up drama.
XP boost- Only works on mob kills for an hour so it's a very tiny boost. Doesn't impact competitive PvP, doesn't matter in PvE, and will only provide a tiny advantage in WvW until you know...everyone hits max.
Rez stone- only works while in PvE open world where you're more than likely not going to flat out die and even if you do there are waypoints nearby.
Gems to money- That money needs to be farmed by players regardless and it provides no real advantage other than not spending 30mins to farm some money that you don't really need to farm anyway.
Item box- all items you will find in the world and no garauntee what item you get.
Every single item in the cash shop is either vanity, convienance, or saves a small amount of time that if you have the time doesn't matter. It's like taking an escalator or the stairs, one can be slightly faster but you get to the same place.
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
Still want to know the difference of me spending gold I farm on this advantage or me buying a gem and the other person buys this advantage with the gold. Is farming for gold a p2w mechanic also? Replace gem with "uber cool rare drop on marketplace" , is luck p2w now?
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
You conveniently ignore the fact that these "advantages" are fully accessible in the game without the cash shop and that they're negligible in context with how WvW works.
Basic, simple fact. There is NOTHING you can purchase in the store by spending cash that can give you advantages you cannot get without spending cash. Nothing at all, simply based on the fact that you can earn gold and purchase in store items, or you can craft things as good as or better than in the store. You cannot purchase anything that gives you an advantage over people playing without purchasing (with cash).
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Man if the price were 100g+ I will agree with you, but for 1g? really?
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
You conveniently ignore the fact that these "advantages" are fully accessible in the game without the cash shop and that they're negligible in context with how WvW works.
Basic, simple fact. There is NOTHING you can purchase in the store by spending cash that can give you advantages you cannot get without spending cash. Nothing at all, simply based on the fact that you can earn gold and purchase in store items, or you can craft things as good as or better than in the store. You cannot purchase anything that gives you an advantage over people playing without purchasing (with cash).
Depending on how much you need to grind in order to equal the gold buyers is the question which determines how egregious the pay2win is. If it is a small amount of grinding then it is less bad than lots of grinding. But in either case, this is how the majority of Korean pay2win grinders work so unless all of a sudden Korean MMOs are the epitomy of esport your line of argument won't get you very far...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Man if the price were 100g+ I will agree with you, but for 1g? really?
I encourage you to watch a few of the press videos that are out. You get about 1-2 silver per event from what they show. When I played at an expo last year I had a handfull of silver at level 4. GW2's money flow is a lot less than other games.
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
You conveniently ignore the fact that these "advantages" are fully accessible in the game without the cash shop and that they're negligible in context with how WvW works.
Basic, simple fact. There is NOTHING you can purchase in the store by spending cash that can give you advantages you cannot get without spending cash. Nothing at all, simply based on the fact that you can earn gold and purchase in store items, or you can craft things as good as or better than in the store. You cannot purchase anything that gives you an advantage over people playing without purchasing (with cash).
Depending on how much you need to grind in order to equal the gold buyers is the question which determines how egregious the pay2win. If it is a small amount of grinding then it is less bad than lots of grinding. But in either case, this is how the majority of Korean pay2win grinders work so unless all of a sudden Korean MMOs are the epitomy of esport your line of argument won't get you very far...
Since you have obviously been to the furture and played, how long do you have to grind? Since you insist everything you say is fact, you have to know this information.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Man if the price were 100g+ I will agree with you, but for 1g? really?
I encourage you to watch a few of the press videos that are out. You get about 1-2 silver per event from what they show. When I played at an expo last year I had a handfull of silver at level 4. GW2's money flow is a lot less than other games.
press events only go to level 20 with the ability to talk to an npc to hit level 30 for the dungeon. you say you dont get a lot of money, the mod here at mmorp.com say you get enough. so no matter what anyone says its stilla wait and see how the money works.
Did you see how much you get from selling drops? how much drops from mobs? maybe you sell a skin someone really wants. are you only gonna rely on gold that you get from doing a DE
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Man if the price were 100g+ I will agree with you, but for 1g? really?
I encourage you to watch a few of the press videos that are out. You get about 1-2 silver per event from what they show. When I played at an expo last year I had a handfull of silver at level 4. GW2's money flow is a lot less than other games.
Keep in mind that they are all low level characters. If I remember correctly, the available content for the last few betas only went up to around level 20 and there was an NPC who would buff you to 30 if you wanted to run the dungeon.
Compare this to WoW, for example. In WoW,1 gold is a lot of money for a brand new level 20 player. For a level 85 player, 1 gold is barely noticable. Same concept here.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Man if the price were 100g+ I will agree with you, but for 1g? really?
I encourage you to watch a few of the press videos that are out. You get about 1-2 silver per event from what they show. When I played at an expo last year I had a handfull of silver at level 4. GW2's money flow is a lot less than other games.
and a CURRENT tester in this thread a part of MMORPG said at lvl 4 you will probably have a gold... so perhaps they changed something or the tester was lucky, either way its POSSIBLE and I think those V8ing at lvl 4 are doing it wrong, go learn your prof before you auto to 80 and try and play well.
Seriously folks, all you have to do is watch the beta WvW videos to see how silly this whole argument it. You'll see, in a world where there wasn't even time to amass great riches, plenty of seige weapons, from catapults to trebuchets to even seige golems. They're all over the place. This is demonstrated to be a complete non-issue.
We also have to take into consideration that in a 3 day beta people are more willing to spend an absurd amount of gold for 10 minutes of time with a seige golem too. Players won't be spending their gold on things they deem wasteful on release day.
They might be spending half their resources for all we know. Still, in WvWvW we tend to see very few seige golems compared to players. We know it's very expensive at level 30 and below for the 10 minutes or so you'll likely get using it (it seems to take roughly 5 or so full participations - gold - in a dynamic event just to accumulate that much gold at level 30). What we don't know is how much gold gain scales post 30, and at 80 if 1 gold can be obtained in 10 minutes of farming this is pretty much a non-issue.
We really don't have any solid enough data to come to any conclusions at this point.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
Man if the price were 100g+ I will agree with you, but for 1g? really?
I encourage you to watch a few of the press videos that are out. You get about 1-2 silver per event from what they show. When I played at an expo last year I had a handfull of silver at level 4. GW2's money flow is a lot less than other games.
I remember in DaoC, getting that first gold. Think I was in my 20's. Granted, when you are 50 plats are easy to get. If you have EVER played a mmorpg you know how this works.. early levels is hard to get money, later levels easier. You are now just grasping at straws. You keep posting on a forum for a game you obviously hate, throwing out anything you can reach for so you can tell yourself you are right in front of a bunch of strangers.
The different categories of cash shop items in GW2:
Things nobody has a problem with (e.g., extra character slots)
Pay2win advantages (e.g., RvRvR bonuses)
Grind reducers (e.g., EXP boosters, repair bot)
Crass in-your-face insults (e.g., "mystic keys")
The reason this debate is so hard is many use the bait-and-switch debate tactic of responding to a line of debate regarding one of the above items types and diverting it to another. For example when I am discussing RvRvR advantages a fanatic will often switch the argument to "who cares about EXP boosts." If you say there are only some items that are bad the fanatic will often swtich the argument to "who cares about cosmetics or extra character slots" etc.
The problem in debating this is each of us has a different level of objection. People like me only will accept item type 1 above. Others are ok with 1, 3, and 4. Some are ok will all of the above. Some only care about 2. Some only care about 4. etc.
This is a hard debate to have, but suffice it to say these microtransactions are certainly not "uniting the GW2 coumminity" as Anet has so hilariously indicated...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Seriously folks, all you have to do is watch the beta WvW videos to see how silly this whole argument it. You'll see, in a world where there wasn't even time to amass great riches, plenty of seige weapons, from catapults to trebuchets to even seige golems. They're all over the place. This is demonstrated to be a complete non-issue.
We also have to take into consideration that in a 3 day beta people are more willing to spend an absurd amount of gold for 10 minutes of time with a seige golem too. Players won't be spending their gold on things they deem wasteful on release day.
They might be spending half their resources for all we know. Still, in WvWvW we tend to see very few seige golems compared to players. We know it's very expensive at level 30 and below for the 10 minutes or so you'll likely get using it (it seems to take roughly 5 or so full participations - gold - in a dynamic event just to accumulate that much gold at level 30). What we don't know is how much gold gain scales post 30, and at 80 if 1 gold can be obtained in 10 minutes of farming this is pretty much a non-issue.
We really don't have any solid enough data to come to any conclusions at this point.
you see very little seige golems compared to players because i takes 100 supply to make. meaning 10 players have to have full supply to make one seige golem. and they walk so slow it doesnt make sense to build them at the supply point but at the place where the seige is taking place
Comments
So far they haven't been going anywhere. I can't wait to see the next one, it's like watching a movie, I don't even know if half of the complainers are serious or just entertaining.
Here's the next cash shop is bad effort:
I pay real money in the cash shop so I win. Ha counter that.
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Certain forums there are tons fo threads about how evolution is flawed and creationism is right blah blah... it doesn't make them right just because they believe it or post alot. People are adept at ignoring facts when they don't suit their personal version of reality.
You can claim there are many flaws in the cash shop and create a hundred threads about it. Opinion doesn't become fact if you yell it loudly enough. No one to date has demonstrated any actual pay to win elements. Hell, those trying to claim there is can't even define what "win" means in their "pay to win" mindsets. Example is the influence and buffs. You can't take a fort or keep using said buffs... either you left them at the keep you hold or you don't have a keep yet to buff you with (which would still be left at that keep), so you can't win another point of interest using the buffs. You can get a defensive boost, same as anyone else, that applies to your entire server in the vicinity of the keep. That won't stop a determined force from taking the keep anyhow if you're not there to defend it in sufficient numbers, thus the buffs are destroyed. There has been NOTHING that demonstrates a "win" that can be purchased.
Oderint, dum metuant.
FALSE.. they are not "previewing" it in beta. There is a NDA. They are testing it, REviewing it, but they would rather it not be veiwed by the public because they are not done with it. I know in your head you are 100% right and on a holy mission to save us from the evil of cash shops.. but untill they come out and say "this is what it is going to be, come preview it", it is all just theorycraft.
There aren't any fatal flaws, just a bunch of people who either don't understand how the game works or are so broke they don't want anyone to buy anything. All of these threads are people posting based on faulty logic, getting shown why it's faulty, then screaming "BUT ITS P2W". I've played many f2p games, including ROM, and GW2's cash shop isn't even on the radar of p2w or majorly impacting gameplay, anyone who says's otherwise is just making up drama.
XP boost- Only works on mob kills for an hour so it's a very tiny boost. Doesn't impact competitive PvP, doesn't matter in PvE, and will only provide a tiny advantage in WvW until you know...everyone hits max.
Rez stone- only works while in PvE open world where you're more than likely not going to flat out die and even if you do there are waypoints nearby.
Gems to money- That money needs to be farmed by players regardless and it provides no real advantage other than not spending 30mins to farm some money that you don't really need to farm anyway.
Item box- all items you will find in the world and no garauntee what item you get.
Every single item in the cash shop is either vanity, convienance, or saves a small amount of time that if you have the time doesn't matter. It's like taking an escalator or the stairs, one can be slightly faster but you get to the same place.
The good thing is that these posts won't stop. I mean, there are people who still believe that GW1 has a P2W cash shop. After all these years of that game being around...
Unfortunately there are so many flaws in the cash shop that there are many threads. Just within the topic of "RvRvR" pay2win advantages there can probably be a least 5 or so sub-threads. If the topic is "Grind removal advantages" there could similarly be multiple sub-threads. Then if you want ot add simply "Crass F2P items" there again can be many sub-threads.
The sad sad reality is there are actually SEVERAL fatal flaws to the cash shop they are previewing in the beta.
Certain forums there are tons fo threads about how evolution is flawed and creationism is right blah blah... it doesn't make them right just because they believe it or post alot. People are adept at ignoring facts when they don't suit their personal version of reality.
You can claim there are many flaws in the cash shop and create a hundred threads about it. Opinion doesn't become fact if you yell it loudly enough. No one to date has demonstrated any actual pay to win elements. Hell, those trying to claim there is can't even define what "win" means in their "pay to win" mindsets. Example is the influence and buffs. You can't take a fort or keep using said buffs... either you left them at the keep you hold or you don't have a keep yet to buff you with (which would still be left at that keep), so you can't win another point of interest using the buffs. You can get a defensive boost, same as anyone else, that applies to your entire server in the vicinity of the keep. That won't stop a determined force from taking the keep anyhow if you're not there to defend it in sufficient numbers, thus the buffs are destroyed. There has been NOTHING that demonstrates a "win" that can be purchased.
This is true now I'm sure he just blocked you or is ignoring what's said is we could give detailed reasons why it's not p2w or to get an advantage but they have yet to produce several detailed sensible flaws. I'm still waiting on gaine to give his, so far he's agreeing in another thread about something that isn't even true. I'm stil waiting.I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
You conveniently didn't mention the RvRvR advantages you can buy. And even most Anet fanaticals will admit there are "small" advantages you can buy at minimum, but then they say "oh its onlyy 5% this and 5% that" or "bring more people" or "avoid that keep" etc. All of those responses simply say, "yeah you can buy advantages but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win but so what" which is the same as saying "yeah it is pay2win" (at least for RvRvR).
And no, pay2win doesn't mean you have an "uber sword of pwnage" or that you will win 100% of the time. Pay2win means you get an advantage by paying. "Only allows you to survive 2-3 more hits" was how one tester described it which to me is quite the advantage.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
This.
If I could share with you folks what I've been told I would likely convince a majority that there is a problem with the current cash shop. Pay for advantages (power, winning, cheating, whatever) does exist. This is an empirical fact. 10% more whatever for paying is more than the standard rate of 0% more whatever for just playing. That is an advantage, no matter how much mental masturbation you go through to tell yourself it isn't.
You're either okay with buying advantages or you aren't. Once you decide which side of that debate you're on you need to be honest with yourself and others about it.
So where do you place guild keep bonuses you can pay with coin? It's the same effect and has the same origin.
YES you "CAN" P2W, but you can allso P2W (PLAY TO WIN), you can either...
1. spend RLM to buy bonuses,
2. Spend in game money to buy bonuses
is it PAY2WIN? i guess in your opinion yes, because in your opinion it seems everyone has to pay with real money to get these advantages, when the only way to get them is gold no? or influence, which you have to have gold, which you CAN NOT buy, you can trade with other players, who farmed gold, to get your gold to pay to win, or those players that would trade the gold for gems could rather spend it on influence to get buffs or whatever, i'm not saying you are wrong, i'm saying there is another way than JUST pay and get those bonuses, so in "some" sense to some people it is pay2win, but it all depends on how many gems will really be sold on the market.
The "Youtube Pro": Someone who watches video's on said subject, and obviously has a full understanding of what is being said about such subject.
Still want to know the difference of me spending gold I farm on this advantage or me buying a gem and the other person buys this advantage with the gold. Is farming for gold a p2w mechanic also? Replace gem with "uber cool rare drop on marketplace" , is luck p2w now?
You conveniently ignore the fact that these "advantages" are fully accessible in the game without the cash shop and that they're negligible in context with how WvW works.
Basic, simple fact. There is NOTHING you can purchase in the store by spending cash that can give you advantages you cannot get without spending cash. Nothing at all, simply based on the fact that you can earn gold and purchase in store items, or you can craft things as good as or better than in the store. You cannot purchase anything that gives you an advantage over people playing without purchasing (with cash).
Oderint, dum metuant.
Man if the price were 100g+ I will agree with you, but for 1g? really?
Depending on how much you need to grind in order to equal the gold buyers is the question which determines how egregious the pay2win is. If it is a small amount of grinding then it is less bad than lots of grinding. But in either case, this is how the majority of Korean pay2win grinders work so unless all of a sudden Korean MMOs are the epitomy of esport your line of argument won't get you very far...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
I encourage you to watch a few of the press videos that are out. You get about 1-2 silver per event from what they show. When I played at an expo last year I had a handfull of silver at level 4. GW2's money flow is a lot less than other games.
Since you have obviously been to the furture and played, how long do you have to grind? Since you insist everything you say is fact, you have to know this information.
press events only go to level 20 with the ability to talk to an npc to hit level 30 for the dungeon. you say you dont get a lot of money, the mod here at mmorp.com say you get enough. so no matter what anyone says its stilla wait and see how the money works.
Did you see how much you get from selling drops? how much drops from mobs? maybe you sell a skin someone really wants. are you only gonna rely on gold that you get from doing a DE
Keep in mind that they are all low level characters. If I remember correctly, the available content for the last few betas only went up to around level 20 and there was an NPC who would buff you to 30 if you wanted to run the dungeon.
Compare this to WoW, for example. In WoW,1 gold is a lot of money for a brand new level 20 player. For a level 85 player, 1 gold is barely noticable. Same concept here.
and a CURRENT tester in this thread a part of MMORPG said at lvl 4 you will probably have a gold... so perhaps they changed something or the tester was lucky, either way its POSSIBLE and I think those V8ing at lvl 4 are doing it wrong, go learn your prof before you auto to 80 and try and play well.
We also have to take into consideration that in a 3 day beta people are more willing to spend an absurd amount of gold for 10 minutes of time with a seige golem too. Players won't be spending their gold on things they deem wasteful on release day.
They might be spending half their resources for all we know. Still, in WvWvW we tend to see very few seige golems compared to players. We know it's very expensive at level 30 and below for the 10 minutes or so you'll likely get using it (it seems to take roughly 5 or so full participations - gold - in a dynamic event just to accumulate that much gold at level 30). What we don't know is how much gold gain scales post 30, and at 80 if 1 gold can be obtained in 10 minutes of farming this is pretty much a non-issue.
We really don't have any solid enough data to come to any conclusions at this point.
I remember in DaoC, getting that first gold. Think I was in my 20's. Granted, when you are 50 plats are easy to get. If you have EVER played a mmorpg you know how this works.. early levels is hard to get money, later levels easier. You are now just grasping at straws. You keep posting on a forum for a game you obviously hate, throwing out anything you can reach for so you can tell yourself you are right in front of a bunch of strangers.
The different categories of cash shop items in GW2:
Things nobody has a problem with (e.g., extra character slots)
Pay2win advantages (e.g., RvRvR bonuses)
Grind reducers (e.g., EXP boosters, repair bot)
Crass in-your-face insults (e.g., "mystic keys")
The reason this debate is so hard is many use the bait-and-switch debate tactic of responding to a line of debate regarding one of the above items types and diverting it to another. For example when I am discussing RvRvR advantages a fanatic will often switch the argument to "who cares about EXP boosts." If you say there are only some items that are bad the fanatic will often swtich the argument to "who cares about cosmetics or extra character slots" etc.
The problem in debating this is each of us has a different level of objection. People like me only will accept item type 1 above. Others are ok with 1, 3, and 4. Some are ok will all of the above. Some only care about 2. Some only care about 4. etc.
This is a hard debate to have, but suffice it to say these microtransactions are certainly not "uniting the GW2 coumminity" as Anet has so hilariously indicated...
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
you see very little seige golems compared to players because i takes 100 supply to make. meaning 10 players have to have full supply to make one seige golem. and they walk so slow it doesnt make sense to build them at the supply point but at the place where the seige is taking place