Lol i didnt even know that GW 2 will have a cash shop(havent done much research lately).I was really looking forward to it ,too bad i wont even touch it now,ill stick to WoW which even with its flaws its still the KING.
there are two groups here (main groups at least), im in group one btw
1. those who see pay to win as being when you ABSOLUTELY MUST buy stuff in the cash shop to remain competative (pve is pretty much non competative so no problem). and the advantages arent large enough to have anything more than a negligable effect even if the systems arent managed well (the seige stuff has limiters on it so it cant be overused and im fairly sure a siege golem isnt very good against anything but the keeps).
2. those who see pay to win as being the moment you can get even the slightest advantage over someone else in any way by paying extra money. which you shouldnt be calling pay to win, its more like pay for a slight advantage in areas that because of the way the game is made dont matter because your not taking anything away from or damaging another players experience in game. (unless you like gloating about your uber awesome stuff but then again this game wasnt made for that).
heres an idea if you have a problem with an advantage calling p4a or something because its not the same as being required to pay money to win or enjoy the majority of the game. then maybe the discussions here can get a little more civil as people understand eachother better.
(btw the people against paying for advantages, they said that this sort of thing would be in the game years ago.... so if your gonna complain ... i mean jeez...)
i know i missed something cant put my finger on it but whatever it is can be addressed later
Well, I wouldn't have an issue with your two categories if you dropped the purely opinionated "negligable effect" and change it to "advantage" and if you dropped the purely opinionated "even the slightest advantage" to "advantage."
When a beta testers says(But not shows) the advantage can let you survive "2-3 more hits" or if they recommend that you "bring more people" or to "avoid that keep" then I think calling this "negligable" is dishonest.
Ok then, if you want to go purely theoretical outside of the beta testers first-hand experience: Does a 5% increase in stats provide you an advantage or not? I really can't wait for the answer because that would increase the epeen of all those epically geared players in other games mowing down other players with their 5% advantages. It would prove they are really more skilled and those 5% gear advantages are meaningless.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Lol i didnt even know that GW 2 will have a cash shop(havent done much research lately).I was really looking forward to it ,too bad i wont even touch it now,ill stick to WoW which even with its flaws its still the KING.
there are two groups here (main groups at least), im in group one btw
1. those who see pay to win as being when you ABSOLUTELY MUST buy stuff in the cash shop to remain competative (pve is pretty much non competative so no problem). and the advantages arent large enough to have anything more than a negligable effect even if the systems arent managed well (the seige stuff has limiters on it so it cant be overused and im fairly sure a siege golem isnt very good against anything but the keeps).
2. those who see pay to win as being the moment you can get even the slightest advantage over someone else in any way by paying extra money. which you shouldnt be calling pay to win, its more like pay for a slight advantage in areas that because of the way the game is made dont matter because your not taking anything away from or damaging another players experience in game. (unless you like gloating about your uber awesome stuff but then again this game wasnt made for that).
heres an idea if you have a problem with an advantage calling p4a or something because its not the same as being required to pay money to win or enjoy the majority of the game. then maybe the discussions here can get a little more civil as people understand eachother better.
(btw the people against paying for advantages, they said that this sort of thing would be in the game years ago.... so if your gonna complain ... i mean jeez...)
i know i missed something cant put my finger on it but whatever it is can be addressed later
Well, I wouldn't have an issue with your two categories if you dropped the purely opinionated "negligable effect" and change it to "advantage" and if you dropped the purely opinionated "even the slightest advantage" to "advantage."
When a beta testers says the advantage can let you survive "2-3 more hits" or if they recommend that you "bring more people" or to "avoid that keep" then I think calling this "negligable" is dishonest.
Something i posted in another thread but is how i feel about it
You are talking about whole guilds, why are you assuming that in your guild there wont be enough money to keep buffs going without buying a single gem?
Being objective not saying its good or bad, an advantage means you have something i dont, homecourt advantage in sports means you have the home crowd and i dont. You are assuming that all the things people can buy with gold will be exclusive to the people that have bought and sold gems and that is just not proven yet.
Can the system be bad yes, but until you prove to me that i wont have enough money to do all these things by playing the game it means nothing.
There are several unknowns that are still up in the air that can be of major concern.
1. Nobody has expressed concerns over what the gold sinks are going to be. They are in place to compensate for the excess gold introduced by buying gems.
Let me interrupt myself and explain something else that no one has bothered to see. The notion that official cash shop RMT is OK because all the gold has to be earned by players is a Straw-man. The argument is moot. This has always been the case with every single gold farmer ever to function in any MMO ever....Otherwise it's not called gold farming, it's called Dubbing.
Also, ANet says, We aren't introducing new gold into the economy, the gold has to be earned. But they aren't telling you that they ARE spawning a resource into the game of equal value to the gold from nothing. This is also something that gold farmers do not do. It's ridiculous for them to try to draw attention from this idea that they aren't spawning something of value from nothing. It's just not true.
OK, so now back to Sinks. Since they are there to compensate for the gold introduced into the economy from gems, what is the impact that they will have on players who aren't purchasing gems. How much will they have to compensate?
2. Since this stuff is all in beta, I suspect that the prices we are seeing are significantly lower so that beta testers are not prevented from being able to test these mechanics.
3. the items leaked are not finalized. Can anyone tell with all certainty that there will not be an item in the CS that will affect how much supply someone can carry or otherwise bring into play?
there are two groups here (main groups at least), im in group one btw
1. those who see pay to win as being when you ABSOLUTELY MUST buy stuff in the cash shop to remain competative (pve is pretty much non competative so no problem). and the advantages arent large enough to have anything more than a negligable effect even if the systems arent managed well (the seige stuff has limiters on it so it cant be overused and im fairly sure a siege golem isnt very good against anything but the keeps).
2. those who see pay to win as being the moment you can get even the slightest advantage over someone else in any way by paying extra money. which you shouldnt be calling pay to win, its more like pay for a slight advantage in areas that because of the way the game is made dont matter because your not taking anything away from or damaging another players experience in game. (unless you like gloating about your uber awesome stuff but then again this game wasnt made for that).
heres an idea if you have a problem with an advantage calling p4a or something because its not the same as being required to pay money to win or enjoy the majority of the game. then maybe the discussions here can get a little more civil as people understand eachother better.
(btw the people against paying for advantages, they said that this sort of thing would be in the game years ago.... so if your gonna complain ... i mean jeez...)
i know i missed something cant put my finger on it but whatever it is can be addressed later
Well, I wouldn't have an issue with your two categories if you dropped the purely opinionated "negligable effect" and change it to "advantage" and if you dropped the purely opinionated "even the slightest advantage" to "advantage."
When a beta testers says(But not shows) the advantage can let you survive "2-3 more hits" or if they recommend that you "bring more people" or to "avoid that keep" then I think calling this "negligable" is dishonest.
Ok then, if you want to go purely theoretical outside of the beta testers first-hand experience: Does a 5% increase in stats provide you an advantage or not? I really can't wait for the answer because that would increase the epeen of all those epically geared players in other games mowing down other players with their 5% advantages. It would prove they are really more skilled and those 5% gear advantages are meaningless.
Can you get it in game?
I know you can, but can you stack it, no you can't
You'd be surprised what one sees when he has a room mate(please don't let this woosh over the head.)
You wanna know how long that buff last? You wanna know why that buff is being trashed?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
The pay2win is the fact that real life money was injected into the trade. It really isn't that complicated and twisting the topic to a theoretical "origin of power" argument doesn't confuse me. It is very simple.
Real life money -> in-game advantage = pay2win
That equation doesn't change no matter how you twist the argument around "origin of power" technicalities. I understand your "origin of power" and the net-sum argument, but it really is irrelevant to this discussion.
Real money didn't create an in game advantage... that's the part you're having trouble grasping it seems. Real money only transferred the advantage from me to you, then real money left the system when I bought my character slot.
(Real money + Pre-existing power) -> Transfer of pre-existing power != Pay to win.
The pay2win is the fact that real life money was injected into the trade. It really isn't that complicated and twisting the topic to a theoretical "origin of power" argument doesn't confuse me. It is very simple.
Real life money -> in-game advantage = pay2win
That equation doesn't change no matter how you twist the argument around "origin of power" technicalities. I understand your "origin of power" and the net-sum argument, but it really is irrelevant to this discussion.
Real money didn't create an in game advantage... that's the part you're having trouble grasping it seems. Real money only transferred the advantage from me to you, then real money left the system when I bought my character slot.
(Real money + Pre-existing power) -> Transfer of pre-existing power != Pay to win.
It's true I know they wish it wasn't true but it is.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Lol i didnt even know that GW 2 will have a cash shop(havent done much research lately).I was really looking forward to it ,too bad i wont even touch it now,ill stick to WoW which even with its flaws its still the KING.
You taking good care of that Sparkle Pony I hope? Yeah, I bought one at the WoW cash shop too back in the day...
There are several unknowns that are still up in the air that can be of major concern.
1. Nobody has expressed concerns over what the gold sinks are going to be. They are in place to compensate for the excess gold introduced by buying gems.
Let me interrupt myself and explain something else that no one has bothered to see. The notion that It's OK because all the gold has to be earned by players is a Straw-man. The argument is moot. This has always been the case with every single gold farmer ever to function in any MMO ever....Otherwise it's not called gold farming, it's called Dubbing.
Also, ANet says, We aren't introducing new gold into the economy, the gold has to be earned. But they aren't telling you that they ARE spawning a resource into the game of equal value to the gold from nothing. This is also something that gold farmers do not do. It's ridiculous for them to try to draw attention from this idea that they aren't spawning something of value from nothing. It's just not true.
OK, so now back to Sinks. Since they are there to compensate for the gold introduced into the economy from gems, what is the impact that they will have on players who aren't purchasing gems. How much will they have to compensate?
2. Since this stuff is all in beta, I suspect that the prices we are seeing are significantly lower so that beta testers are not prevented from being able to test these mechanics.
3. the items leaked are not finalized. Can anyone tell with all certainty that there will not be an item in the CS that will affect how much supply someone can carry or otherwise bring into play?
There is no excess gold from buying gems, How can you say gold sinks are there to dispose of excess gold from buying gems when buying gems doesnt create gold,
Gold sinks are to stop inflation from gold creating in the world yes, but has nothing to do with buying gems
Gold sellers get a lot of there gold from botting and hacking accounts, there not your average guy playing the game and trying to sell what he worked hard for
While i was watching this, i never once thought to myself about the CS or about the Gem buyers having an advantage. All i thought was "wow, this looks awesome and although i can't play the game yet, i will reserve my judgement (weither i become fanboi/hater) until i can try it for myself.
Although one funny thing i wanted to comment on about the title of the thread (just cuz), if the Gem buyer has an advantage (the person who bought the gem from the seller) doesn't the person that sold the gem for gold have an advantage too.... since they got gold now? SO... everyone has an advantage?
Just a random thought.
(edit: linked wrong)
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
The pay2win is the fact that real life money was injected into the trade. It really isn't that complicated and twisting the topic to a theoretical "origin of power" argument doesn't confuse me. It is very simple.
Real life money -> in-game advantage = pay2win
That equation doesn't change no matter how you twist the argument around "origin of power" technicalities. I understand your "origin of power" and the net-sum argument, but it really is irrelevant to this discussion.
Real money didn't create an in game advantage... that's the part you're having trouble grasping it seems. Real money only transferred the advantage from me to you, then real money left the system when I bought my character slot.
(Real money + Pre-existing power) -> Transfer of pre-existing power != Pay to win.
So by your definition then: Gold sellers in other games are not pay2win either (despite the fact it is a bannable offense)
That is fine, you do not believe gold sellers in MMOs is pay2win, but you are in a small group of people who think that way. You have a very narrow definition of pay2win. In fact, the vast majority of F2P Korean grinders are not pay2win under your definition.
Believe me, I understand your logic. But your definition of pay2win is much much narrower than mine. A little known fact (at least to Anet aplogists) is that very few pay2win games actually have a cash shop exclusive "uber sword of pwnage"
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The pay2win is the fact that real life money was injected into the trade. It really isn't that complicated and twisting the topic to a theoretical "origin of power" argument doesn't confuse me. It is very simple.
Real life money -> in-game advantage = pay2win
That equation doesn't change no matter how you twist the argument around "origin of power" technicalities. I understand your "origin of power" and the net-sum argument, but it really is irrelevant to this discussion.
Real money didn't create an in game advantage... that's the part you're having trouble grasping it seems. Real money only transferred the advantage from me to you, then real money left the system when I bought my character slot.
(Real money + Pre-existing power) -> Transfer of pre-existing power != Pay to win.
So by your definition then: Gold sellers in other games are not pay2win either (despite the fact it is a bannable offense)
That is fine, you do not believe gold sellers in MMOs is pay2win, but you are in a small group of people who think that way. You have a very narrow definition of pay2win. In fact, the vast majority of F2P Korean grinders are not pay2win under your definition.
Believe me, I understand your logic. But your definition of pay2win is much much narrower than mine. A little known fact (at least to Anet aplogists) is that very few pay2win games actually have a cash shop exclusive "uber sword of pwnage"
The irony.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Originally posted by st4t1ck Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh There are several unknowns that are still up in the air that can be of major concern. 1. Nobody has expressed concerns over what the gold sinks are going to be. They are in place to compensate for the excess gold introduced by buying gems. Let me interrupt myself and explain something else that no one has bothered to see. The notion that It's OK because all the gold has to be earned by players is a Straw-man. The argument is moot. This has always been the case with every single gold farmer ever to function in any MMO ever....Otherwise it's not called gold farming, it's called Dubbing. Also, ANet says, We aren't introducing new gold into the economy, the gold has to be earned. But they aren't telling you that they ARE spawning a resource into the game of equal value to the gold from nothing. This is also something that gold farmers do not do. It's ridiculous for them to try to draw attention from this idea that they aren't spawning something of value from nothing. It's just not true. OK, so now back to Sinks. Since they are there to compensate for the gold introduced into the economy from gems, what is the impact that they will have on players who aren't purchasing gems. How much will they have to compensate?
2. Since this stuff is all in beta, I suspect that the prices we are seeing are significantly lower so that beta testers are not prevented from being able to test these mechanics.
3. the items leaked are not finalized. Can anyone tell with all certainty that there will not be an item in the CS that will affect how much supply someone can carry or otherwise bring into play?
There is no excess gold from buying gems, How can you say gold sinks are there to dispose of excess gold from buying gems when buying gems doesnt create gold, Gold sinks are to stop inflation from gold creating in the world yes, but has nothing to do with buying gems Gold sellers get a lot of there gold from botting and hacking accounts, there not your average guy playing the game and trying to sell what he worked hard for
let me rephrase this: It creates value from nothing
I have nothing, you have gold. I buy a gem from CS. Now you buy Gem I have gold. You have gem worth same value in gold Nobody has nothing.
There are several unknowns that are still up in the air that can be of major concern.
1. Nobody has expressed concerns over what the gold sinks are going to be. They are in place to compensate for the excess gold introduced by buying gems.
Let me interrupt myself and explain something else that no one has bothered to see. The notion that It's OK because all the gold has to be earned by players is a Straw-man. The argument is moot. This has always been the case with every single gold farmer ever to function in any MMO ever....Otherwise it's not called gold farming, it's called Dubbing.
Also, ANet says, We aren't introducing new gold into the economy, the gold has to be earned. But they aren't telling you that they ARE spawning a resource into the game of equal value to the gold from nothing. This is also something that gold farmers do not do. It's ridiculous for them to try to draw attention from this idea that they aren't spawning something of value from nothing. It's just not true.
OK, so now back to Sinks. Since they are there to compensate for the gold introduced into the economy from gems, what is the impact that they will have on players who aren't purchasing gems. How much will they have to compensate?
2. Since this stuff is all in beta, I suspect that the prices we are seeing are significantly lower so that beta testers are not prevented from being able to test these mechanics.
3. the items leaked are not finalized. Can anyone tell with all certainty that there will not be an item in the CS that will affect how much supply someone can carry or otherwise bring into play?
There is no excess gold from buying gems, How can you say gold sinks are there to dispose of excess gold from buying gems when buying gems doesnt create gold,
Gold sinks are to stop inflation from gold creating in the world yes, but has nothing to do with buying gems
Gold sellers get a lot of there gold from botting and hacking accounts, there not your average guy playing the game and trying to sell what he worked hard for
let me rephrase this:
It creates value from nothing
I have nothing, you have gold.
I buy a gem from CS. Now you buy Gem
I have gold. You have gem worth same value in gold
Nobody has nothing.
Bingo. The fact that makes the equation all sum to zero again is the one player has a real life bank account that decreased during this transaction.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Well, it is the first step in your 12 step process of understanding why it is bad
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Originally posted by gainesvilleg Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh
Originally posted by st4t1ck
Originally posted by GeeTeeEffOh There are several unknowns that are still up in the air that can be of major concern. 1. Nobody has expressed concerns over what the gold sinks are going to be. They are in place to compensate for the excess gold introduced by buying gems. Let me interrupt myself and explain something else that no one has bothered to see. The notion that It's OK because all the gold has to be earned by players is a Straw-man. The argument is moot. This has always been the case with every single gold farmer ever to function in any MMO ever....Otherwise it's not called gold farming, it's called Dubbing. Also, ANet says, We aren't introducing new gold into the economy, the gold has to be earned. But they aren't telling you that they ARE spawning a resource into the game of equal value to the gold from nothing. This is also something that gold farmers do not do. It's ridiculous for them to try to draw attention from this idea that they aren't spawning something of value from nothing. It's just not true. OK, so now back to Sinks. Since they are there to compensate for the gold introduced into the economy from gems, what is the impact that they will have on players who aren't purchasing gems. How much will they have to compensate?
2. Since this stuff is all in beta, I suspect that the prices we are seeing are significantly lower so that beta testers are not prevented from being able to test these mechanics.
3. the items leaked are not finalized. Can anyone tell with all certainty that there will not be an item in the CS that will affect how much supply someone can carry or otherwise bring into play?
There is no excess gold from buying gems, How can you say gold sinks are there to dispose of excess gold from buying gems when buying gems doesnt create gold, Gold sinks are to stop inflation from gold creating in the world yes, but has nothing to do with buying gems Gold sellers get a lot of there gold from botting and hacking accounts, there not your average guy playing the game and trying to sell what he worked hard for
let me rephrase this: It creates value from nothing I have nothing, you have gold. I buy a gem from CS. Now you buy Gem I have gold. You have gem worth same value in gold Nobody has nothing. Bingo. The fact that makes the equation all sum to zero again is the one player has a real life bank account that decreased during this transaction.
This is my point of Gold Sinks. This Excess value created by purchasing gems is to be reduced by ingame mechanics Since ANet announced there would be Gold Sinks. These are used to combat the inflation. If the one who's sum was brought to 0 after buying the gem, then the one who does not, is brought to a negative.
i agree, i give up they can call it whatever they want, i like it and it wont change. if you think arena net is gonna get rid of gem -> gold exchange your kidding yourself. i no longer care what its called. i will call in fun when i finally play it.
What's the next excuse? WvW isn't PvP so it doesn't have to be fair? Siege weapons can be used against players or the all mighty fort door. Hell, every gem buyer can buy the most expensive, and the only mobile siege weapon, the siege golem (A gundam!).
For those that don't already know, you can buy gems in the cash shop, then trade them for gold with other players.
LOL.
All I will say is the WvW was never ment to be fair and balanced as Anet has stated many times, and siege golems are very slow and are easy for a small skilled group to kill.
Hey that was my argument in a different thread. Get your own argument -_-
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind" 1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN 2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
Comments
Lol i didnt even know that GW 2 will have a cash shop(havent done much research lately).I was really looking forward to it ,too bad i wont even touch it now,ill stick to WoW which even with its flaws its still the KING.
Ok then, if you want to go purely theoretical outside of the beta testers first-hand experience: Does a 5% increase in stats provide you an advantage or not? I really can't wait for the answer because that would increase the epeen of all those epically geared players in other games mowing down other players with their 5% advantages. It would prove they are really more skilled and those 5% gear advantages are meaningless.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
And also has a CS.... Nice logic you have there.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Something i posted in another thread but is how i feel about it
You are talking about whole guilds, why are you assuming that in your guild there wont be enough money to keep buffs going without buying a single gem?
Being objective not saying its good or bad, an advantage means you have something i dont, homecourt advantage in sports means you have the home crowd and i dont. You are assuming that all the things people can buy with gold will be exclusive to the people that have bought and sold gems and that is just not proven yet.
Can the system be bad yes, but until you prove to me that i wont have enough money to do all these things by playing the game it means nothing.
There are several unknowns that are still up in the air that can be of major concern.
1. Nobody has expressed concerns over what the gold sinks are going to be. They are in place to compensate for the excess gold introduced by buying gems.
Let me interrupt myself and explain something else that no one has bothered to see. The notion that official cash shop RMT is OK because all the gold has to be earned by players is a Straw-man. The argument is moot. This has always been the case with every single gold farmer ever to function in any MMO ever....Otherwise it's not called gold farming, it's called Dubbing.
Also, ANet says, We aren't introducing new gold into the economy, the gold has to be earned. But they aren't telling you that they ARE spawning a resource into the game of equal value to the gold from nothing. This is also something that gold farmers do not do. It's ridiculous for them to try to draw attention from this idea that they aren't spawning something of value from nothing. It's just not true.
OK, so now back to Sinks. Since they are there to compensate for the gold introduced into the economy from gems, what is the impact that they will have on players who aren't purchasing gems. How much will they have to compensate?
2. Since this stuff is all in beta, I suspect that the prices we are seeing are significantly lower so that beta testers are not prevented from being able to test these mechanics.
3. the items leaked are not finalized. Can anyone tell with all certainty that there will not be an item in the CS that will affect how much supply someone can carry or otherwise bring into play?
Can you get it in game?
I know you can, but can you stack it, no you can't
You'd be surprised what one sees when he has a room mate(please don't let this woosh over the head.)
You wanna know how long that buff last? You wanna know why that buff is being trashed?
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Real money didn't create an in game advantage... that's the part you're having trouble grasping it seems. Real money only transferred the advantage from me to you, then real money left the system when I bought my character slot.
(Real money + Pre-existing power) -> Transfer of pre-existing power != Pay to win.
Oderint, dum metuant.
It's true I know they wish it wasn't true but it is.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
You taking good care of that Sparkle Pony I hope? Yeah, I bought one at the WoW cash shop too back in the day...
Oderint, dum metuant.
There is no excess gold from buying gems, How can you say gold sinks are there to dispose of excess gold from buying gems when buying gems doesnt create gold,
Gold sinks are to stop inflation from gold creating in the world yes, but has nothing to do with buying gems
Gold sellers get a lot of there gold from botting and hacking accounts, there not your average guy playing the game and trying to sell what he worked hard for
You know, although this might be completely out there, my opinion on the matter is this:
Massively: Guild Wars 2 Beta - World Vs. World - YouTube
While i was watching this, i never once thought to myself about the CS or about the Gem buyers having an advantage. All i thought was "wow, this looks awesome and although i can't play the game yet, i will reserve my judgement (weither i become fanboi/hater) until i can try it for myself.
Although one funny thing i wanted to comment on about the title of the thread (just cuz), if the Gem buyer has an advantage (the person who bought the gem from the seller) doesn't the person that sold the gem for gold have an advantage too.... since they got gold now? SO... everyone has an advantage?
Just a random thought.
(edit: linked wrong)
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
So by your definition then: Gold sellers in other games are not pay2win either (despite the fact it is a bannable offense)
That is fine, you do not believe gold sellers in MMOs is pay2win, but you are in a small group of people who think that way. You have a very narrow definition of pay2win. In fact, the vast majority of F2P Korean grinders are not pay2win under your definition.
Believe me, I understand your logic. But your definition of pay2win is much much narrower than mine. A little known fact (at least to Anet aplogists) is that very few pay2win games actually have a cash shop exclusive "uber sword of pwnage"
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
The irony.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Gold sinks are to stop inflation from gold creating in the world yes, but has nothing to do with buying gems
Gold sellers get a lot of there gold from botting and hacking accounts, there not your average guy playing the game and trying to sell what he worked hard for
let me rephrase this:
It creates value from nothing
I have nothing, you have gold.
I buy a gem from CS. Now you buy Gem
I have gold. You have gem worth same value in gold
Nobody has nothing.
Bingo. The fact that makes the equation all sum to zero again is the one player has a real life bank account that decreased during this transaction.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
OK, GW2 is P2W.
I want it to be P2W.
Argue with that.
You don't want it to be P2W, your mind is flawed. There is your arguement... (j/k btw)
I think i need to stop following this thread...
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
Well, it is the first step in your 12 step process of understanding why it is bad
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements
There is no excess gold from buying gems, How can you say gold sinks are there to dispose of excess gold from buying gems when buying gems doesnt create gold,
Gold sinks are to stop inflation from gold creating in the world yes, but has nothing to do with buying gems
Gold sellers get a lot of there gold from botting and hacking accounts, there not your average guy playing the game and trying to sell what he worked hard for
let me rephrase this:
It creates value from nothing
I have nothing, you have gold.
I buy a gem from CS. Now you buy Gem
I have gold. You have gem worth same value in gold
Nobody has nothing.
Bingo. The fact that makes the equation all sum to zero again is the one player has a real life bank account that decreased during this transaction.
This is my point of Gold Sinks.
This Excess value created by purchasing gems is to be reduced by ingame mechanics
Since ANet announced there would be Gold Sinks. These are used to combat the inflation.
If the one who's sum was brought to 0 after buying the gem, then the one who does not, is brought to a negative.
Hey that was my argument in a different thread. Get your own argument -_-
ur mom wants it to be p2w?
That's the only fitting retort.
Maybe a poll on whether or not money should be a substitute for a time investment or garner other advantages?
i agree, i give up they can call it whatever they want, i like it and it wont change. if you think arena net is gonna get rid of gem -> gold exchange your kidding yourself. i no longer care what its called. i will call in fun when i finally play it.
You now have gold, and can buy schematics for machines, which is limited by supply.
I now have a gem, which cannot be used to buy schematics for machines.
The gold has changed hands, but amount of gold has not increased.
I now resell the game for more than what I paid (not sure you can do that). I now have gold.
Player A buys gem from me, they now have a gem.
The gold has changed hands, but amount of gold has not increased.
etc.
LOL.
All I will say is the WvW was never ment to be fair and balanced as Anet has stated many times, and siege golems are very slow and are easy for a small skilled group to kill.
It is a totally honest argument. It is so distracting to have to deal with convoluted arguments about why something that, prior to GW2, was universally considered pay2win is now no longer pay2win. It is a frustrating argument.
Arguing the merits of pay2win versus not pay2win is a much more honest debate and if you say you like pay2win because it allows you to not spend time others do and still get the same advantages, then that is your valid opinion.
GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements