I am tired of available MMORPG's hence the reason I will play this game
I am not dedicated or competitive enough to hardcore play an e-sport type game (although i enjoy a friendly round fo LoL every now and then)
When asked to define Guild Wars (the original), most people that i knew either in guild or alliance (not all, but most) ended up with not a real MMO in line with say WoW, but still possessing many elements of a MMO that was both fun and challenging.
And the end result?
People who liked it, liked it.
People who didn't, didn't.
Why are some people so caught up with semantics that they ignore the fact that everyones view of what is/isn't might not fit other peoples views?
Hey, thats my view, but who am i to say what I think your opinion should be?
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
Don't know, will the elite skill from the CE and DE bring me long life of win?
GW1 tried, and had tournaments for money. Really, it was too unbalanced and gimmick build riddled to be and everyone just copied the popular builds or whatever the PvP forum fad was. Was 8v8 at the minimum and really wasn't fun trying to get that many people who were decent and actually understood the skills. So it really depends if GW2 is build wars or can you actually make a difference? Still it's 5v5, but ironically no GvG which was supposed to be the e-sport portion of it, will it just be the only PvP mode they showed over and over, which is that town under siege?
So I will preface this by saying I intend to buy GW2 and enjoy it as an E-sport type game.
There seems to be a lot of people with the impression this game is actually a MMORPG. Now this may simply be a distinction in how people classify things or maybe I have missed certain details about this game.
My understanding: (tell me if im wrong)
The only progression in this game is leveling 1-80 period. Dungeons etc. will offer no further advancement (outside of cosmetic);
Once you reach max level there is NOT a persistent world that players can affect in any meaningful way; (e.g. guild towns, conquering cities etc.,)
The large scale PvP battles will NOT happen in the open world but an instance that resets every few weeks.
So if I’m correct in my estimation the only value in leveling is to get to the end so you can play the large scale PvP (E-sport). General PvP will allow you to ceate a level 80 immediately.
Based on all of the above:
Leveling in this game should not be mandatory – just like playing the PvE game is not mandatory in StarCraft.
In fact they should just remove levels all together in my estimation as it would be less confusing to those players expecting a full-fledged MMO.
Look man, you have so limited definition of what "mmorpg" or "rpg" is that it is ridiculous.
Is it a "massively multiplayer online role-playing game?" Yes it is. It is massive, multiplayer online game where you role-play a character.
Ok, now that out of the way, lets disect your points
1) of course there is "progression" after level 80... AND ways to progress beyonfd simple leveling. Are you that brainwashed to think that the only possible progression in rpgs is in raw character combat power through character levels? You know, "role-playing games" and not "combat power grind games"? And why do you think that is even not the case in GW2? You'll have plenty to "progress" in GW2 after 80, including stuff that does influence combat stats lol. Dismissing all other types of progression as "cosmetic" is simply thick, i'm sorry to say.
2) By this argument WoW is not mmorpg, LoTRO is not mmorpg, EQ isn'tt a mmorpg, AoC isn't a mmorpg... And besides, it's not even completely true in GW2's case.
3) Dreadful lack of imagination and sense here. WvW will NOT happen in an "instance" - it will happen in a separate zone. That's different, you know. Calling The Mists an instance is exactly like calling WoW's continents instances and then claiming that it's not an open world game. As for "resetting", jeez.. Look man, WvW is not a instanced deathmatch writ large. Look it up a bit more. And besides it will influence what is happening in the PvE world (so there goes your argument 2) and will have persistence beyond the 2 weeks period while the "particular planes are in alignement."
So if I’m correct in my estimation the only value in leveling is to get to the end so you can play the large scale PvP (E-sport). General PvP will allow you to ceate a level 80 immediately.
Man, if the only reason you play games is so you can grind up power and wave your e-peen around then i pity your poor soul. You know, there are millions of people ot there who play games for other things, like a sense of achievement, socializing, exploration, enjoyment of gameplay itself...
Leveling in this game should not be mandatory – just like playing the PvE game is not mandatory in StarCraft.
In fact they should just remove levels all together in my estimation as it would be less confusing to those players expecting a full-fledged MMO.
What a total mess of an argument here. Amongst other things, you are implying, with a completely straight face, that only a game with leveling can be a "full-fledged mmo".For this alone you should be laughed out of the site.
As for the flamebait loaded question in the title "MMO or E-sport?" It is a mmo (yes, even a "mmorpg", duh) and it will have an e-sport gameplay mode thrown in as a bonus... or vice-versa, if you're more into e-sport pvp lol. Happy now? It's just such a ... stupid question, really. It's like asking "COD 4 single player or multiplayer?" and implying that a game must be one or the other but never both. Well, you know what, it can be both. A game can contain many gameplay modes, you know. We're kinda beyond pacman and tetris nowadays...
So, in conclusion, this is /endthread for me. I have plenty of better things to do than spend my time on such ignorant, myopic foolishness as this thread.
Pretty obvious to anyone with even limited experience in the genre that only the arena style small group vs small group content ( aka the ReachAroundClub ) will be suitable for e-sports. Whether or not the rest of the game is a MMORPG or some other silly combination of capital letters is of little relevance to that issue.
guild wars doesnt really have the things which makes a mmorpg a mmorpg.
- no player economy
- crafting pointless (see next point)
- no item decay/destruction-> stupid bound item system most likely
- no player castles, cities (WvWvW isnt really player castles because you cant really do anothing like set taxes, rent shop space, build defenses and its not player owned)
- players cannot really affect the world (dynamics events will not be dynamics TRUST ME, it will prolli suck balls like RIFT)
- not enough character customisation, everyone has the same skills
guild wars doesnt really have what it takes to be a e-sport either
- it doesnt have the last hitting/denying, item, towers, strategy, ganking, gold management etc of DoTA/sc and it doesnt have high skill cap, reflexes, hand eye corridnation, strategy of FPS style combat
- no LAN support
- it has gear and levels
its a casual themepark with some minor twists.
ill prolli buy the game because it has WvWvW pvp and a combat system that is better than tab target press 1 2 3 4 repeat and its cheap (no sub)
If we went by your definition we could count the number of MMOs on one hand.
Also just so you know, they are TRYING to create a new Esport MMO it oviously isnt like MOBAS FPS or strategy games
FYI gears and levels dont matter in competitive pvp and events do change the world, why should i trust you when i have seen videos that prove they do?
God people just talk out of their asses sometimes.
Do YOU have the videos that prove they do?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
If you are going to call GW2 an esport and not an MMO you will have to say the same about a very large percentage of games. GW2 is as much an MMORPG as most of the other games on this site seriously. Of all the complaints you may have about GW2 I think this one may well be grasping at straws but that's just my opinion
So I will preface this by saying I intend to buy GW2 and enjoy it as an E-sport type game.
There seems to be a lot of people with the impression this game is actually a MMORPG. Now this may simply be a distinction in how people classify things or maybe I have missed certain details about this game.
My understanding: (tell me if im wrong)
The only progression in this game is leveling 1-80 period. Dungeons etc. will offer no further advancement (outside of cosmetic);
Once you reach max level there is NOT a persistent world that players can affect in any meaningful way; (e.g. guild towns, conquering cities etc.,)
The large scale PvP battles will NOT happen in the open world but an instance that resets every few weeks.
So if I’m correct in my estimation the only value in leveling is to get to the end so you can play the large scale PvP (E-sport). General PvP will allow you to ceate a level 80 immediately.
Based on all of the above:
Leveling in this game should not be mandatory – just like playing the PvE game is not mandatory in StarCraft.
In fact they should just remove levels all together in my estimation as it would be less confusing to those players expecting a full-fledged MMO.
Calling better gear "progression" is a lot worse than calling a CORPG a MMO (and GW2 is a MMO BTW).
Many of the oldest MMOs had more or less just levels as progression as well. Having gear matter more or less does not make something a MMO.
And guild towns are not a must for MMOs, in fact most MMOs have nothing like that. Guilds can however conquer keeps, towers and even an gigantic castle. Yeah, you have that reseted every 2 weeks but that frankly just makes it more interesting.
And at least GW2 have large scale battles, few MMOs actually have that.
So yeah, if you consider that Wow, EQ, LOTRO and most other games on this site aren't MMOs then GW2 ain't one either but frankly is it fewer MMOs that have openworld massive PvP and guild controlled towns which mean by logic you could say that those games aren't the MMOs
Massive = check, in fact are there more people on the screen at the same time in the beta footage than I seen in any MMO for a long time. Multiplayer= check. online= check. RPG= check, in fact GW2 is the first themepark game I seen with a world that feels even slightly alive for 10 years.
E-sport is just a word for people in so bad shape that even golf is too much work.
Electronic Sports, abbreviated e-Sports is used as a general term to describe the play of video games competitively. Other terms include competitive gaming, professional gaming, cybersports and V-Sports.
Pretty much a competitive game where only player skill and the rules of the game matter.
Personally I want to play both sides, the MMO side and I am definitely looking at the structured PvP E-Sport side pretty seriously.
I think after watching countless people not use Dodge or not pay attention when "Finish him press (F)" FLASHES in the middle of your screen over and over is great reason to have leveling in this game.
(Not refering to everyone, so if it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you)
Games like WoW have created a seriously dumbed down, un responsive, gamer base. I know there are other games that contribute but the big boy caused more problems in the gaming world then all the others combined. People no longer figure things out on their own, no longer pay attention to what is happening to their character, no longer can see action require keys pop up on their screen.
Because of this backwards movement in learning how to play a game this game needs leveling. People will have to relearn to think for themselves without saying "but in WoW I could do this or that" can I please for the love of god get some compitent players who can wrap their heads around a game concept without me having to reference WoW or any other game for them to understand...
Ok back on track - Simple things like the dodge mechanic are being over looked by beta testers. Its hard Watching people in video's of beta casting their skills at their feet repeatedly, and simply not taking the time to learn their characters potential for one hot minute. Some of the people in these videos are just standing in one spot like they did in WoW directly after showing us the dodge mechanic yet not using it and NOT MOVING out of circles of damage... These are simple enough reasons to need leveling in this game. People will have to unlearn or should I say relearn how to play.
Allbeit there are some of us gamers who are biting at the bit, waiting and anticipating for our chance to jump right in. Can't wait to start massing my army for WvW, but even more so finding the right 2 people to finish off my 5vs5 group.!
Comments
Neither
Guild Wars 2 is Guild Wars 2.
I am tired of available MMORPG's hence the reason I will play this game
I am not dedicated or competitive enough to hardcore play an e-sport type game (although i enjoy a friendly round fo LoL every now and then)
When asked to define Guild Wars (the original), most people that i knew either in guild or alliance (not all, but most) ended up with not a real MMO in line with say WoW, but still possessing many elements of a MMO that was both fun and challenging.
And the end result?
People who liked it, liked it.
People who didn't, didn't.
Why are some people so caught up with semantics that they ignore the fact that everyones view of what is/isn't might not fit other peoples views?
Hey, thats my view, but who am i to say what I think your opinion should be?
I'm sorry but the only one saying anything about the second coming is you. Fans of a game accept its flaws and strengths.
Don't know, will the elite skill from the CE and DE bring me long life of win?
GW1 tried, and had tournaments for money. Really, it was too unbalanced and gimmick build riddled to be and everyone just copied the popular builds or whatever the PvP forum fad was. Was 8v8 at the minimum and really wasn't fun trying to get that many people who were decent and actually understood the skills. So it really depends if GW2 is build wars or can you actually make a difference? Still it's 5v5, but ironically no GvG which was supposed to be the e-sport portion of it, will it just be the only PvP mode they showed over and over, which is that town under siege?
Look man, you have so limited definition of what "mmorpg" or "rpg" is that it is ridiculous.
Is it a "massively multiplayer online role-playing game?" Yes it is. It is massive, multiplayer online game where you role-play a character.
Ok, now that out of the way, lets disect your points
1) of course there is "progression" after level 80... AND ways to progress beyonfd simple leveling. Are you that brainwashed to think that the only possible progression in rpgs is in raw character combat power through character levels? You know, "role-playing games" and not "combat power grind games"? And why do you think that is even not the case in GW2? You'll have plenty to "progress" in GW2 after 80, including stuff that does influence combat stats lol. Dismissing all other types of progression as "cosmetic" is simply thick, i'm sorry to say.
2) By this argument WoW is not mmorpg, LoTRO is not mmorpg, EQ isn'tt a mmorpg, AoC isn't a mmorpg... And besides, it's not even completely true in GW2's case.
3) Dreadful lack of imagination and sense here. WvW will NOT happen in an "instance" - it will happen in a separate zone. That's different, you know. Calling The Mists an instance is exactly like calling WoW's continents instances and then claiming that it's not an open world game. As for "resetting", jeez.. Look man, WvW is not a instanced deathmatch writ large. Look it up a bit more. And besides it will influence what is happening in the PvE world (so there goes your argument 2) and will have persistence beyond the 2 weeks period while the "particular planes are in alignement."
So if I’m correct in my estimation the only value in leveling is to get to the end so you can play the large scale PvP (E-sport). General PvP will allow you to ceate a level 80 immediately.
Man, if the only reason you play games is so you can grind up power and wave your e-peen around then i pity your poor soul. You know, there are millions of people ot there who play games for other things, like a sense of achievement, socializing, exploration, enjoyment of gameplay itself...
Leveling in this game should not be mandatory – just like playing the PvE game is not mandatory in StarCraft.
In fact they should just remove levels all together in my estimation as it would be less confusing to those players expecting a full-fledged MMO.
What a total mess of an argument here. Amongst other things, you are implying, with a completely straight face, that only a game with leveling can be a "full-fledged mmo".For this alone you should be laughed out of the site.
As for the flamebait loaded question in the title "MMO or E-sport?" It is a mmo (yes, even a "mmorpg", duh) and it will have an e-sport gameplay mode thrown in as a bonus... or vice-versa, if you're more into e-sport pvp lol. Happy now? It's just such a ... stupid question, really. It's like asking "COD 4 single player or multiplayer?" and implying that a game must be one or the other but never both. Well, you know what, it can be both. A game can contain many gameplay modes, you know. We're kinda beyond pacman and tetris nowadays...
So, in conclusion, this is /endthread for me. I have plenty of better things to do than spend my time on such ignorant, myopic foolishness as this thread.
Pretty obvious to anyone with even limited experience in the genre that only the arena style small group vs small group content ( aka the ReachAroundClub ) will be suitable for e-sports. Whether or not the rest of the game is a MMORPG or some other silly combination of capital letters is of little relevance to that issue.
Do YOU have the videos that prove they do?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
E-sport? lol what kind of injuries do you get from playing video games, a sprained thumb? Haha e-sport. This is some funny stuff right here.
Right back at ya comment below me!
This is probably the stupidest thing I've read today, and I read the comment above me.
You've obviously never played Starcraft 2...
If you are going to call GW2 an esport and not an MMO you will have to say the same about a very large percentage of games. GW2 is as much an MMORPG as most of the other games on this site seriously. Of all the complaints you may have about GW2 I think this one may well be grasping at straws but that's just my opinion
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
Calling better gear "progression" is a lot worse than calling a CORPG a MMO (and GW2 is a MMO BTW).
Many of the oldest MMOs had more or less just levels as progression as well. Having gear matter more or less does not make something a MMO.
And guild towns are not a must for MMOs, in fact most MMOs have nothing like that. Guilds can however conquer keeps, towers and even an gigantic castle. Yeah, you have that reseted every 2 weeks but that frankly just makes it more interesting.
And at least GW2 have large scale battles, few MMOs actually have that.
So yeah, if you consider that Wow, EQ, LOTRO and most other games on this site aren't MMOs then GW2 ain't one either but frankly is it fewer MMOs that have openworld massive PvP and guild controlled towns which mean by logic you could say that those games aren't the MMOs
Massive = check, in fact are there more people on the screen at the same time in the beta footage than I seen in any MMO for a long time. Multiplayer= check. online= check. RPG= check, in fact GW2 is the first themepark game I seen with a world that feels even slightly alive for 10 years.
E-sport is just a word for people in so bad shape that even golf is too much work.
Well, if Chess is an olympic sport then computer games can be played as sports too.
And I see Texas Hold'em is pretty popular on "sports" channels.
Jeez, every almost every game can be played as a "sport" so please lets get this issue out of this discussion... because it's a non-issue really.
Don't they call them Olympic "events"?
Sorry lol
find it more distrbing that apparently getting injured is the point of sport....
I don't care if its an MMO or an e-sport, but I know I'm gonna buy it and play it.
And that is what matters.
/facepalm
mandatory, this is not a sandbox
it is however an MMO with e-sport options. you DO actually have a choice.
Cougar alert
I don't even know what E-sport means?
Web definitions
Electronic Sports, abbreviated e-Sports is used as a general term to describe the play of video games competitively. Other terms include competitive gaming, professional gaming, cybersports and V-Sports.
Pretty much a competitive game where only player skill and the rules of the game matter.
Personally I want to play both sides, the MMO side and I am definitely looking at the structured PvP E-Sport side pretty seriously.
I think after watching countless people not use Dodge or not pay attention when "Finish him press (F)" FLASHES in the middle of your screen over and over is great reason to have leveling in this game.
(Not refering to everyone, so if it doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you)
Games like WoW have created a seriously dumbed down, un responsive, gamer base. I know there are other games that contribute but the big boy caused more problems in the gaming world then all the others combined. People no longer figure things out on their own, no longer pay attention to what is happening to their character, no longer can see action require keys pop up on their screen.
Because of this backwards movement in learning how to play a game this game needs leveling. People will have to relearn to think for themselves without saying "but in WoW I could do this or that" can I please for the love of god get some compitent players who can wrap their heads around a game concept without me having to reference WoW or any other game for them to understand...
Ok back on track - Simple things like the dodge mechanic are being over looked by beta testers. Its hard Watching people in video's of beta casting their skills at their feet repeatedly, and simply not taking the time to learn their characters potential for one hot minute. Some of the people in these videos are just standing in one spot like they did in WoW directly after showing us the dodge mechanic yet not using it and NOT MOVING out of circles of damage... These are simple enough reasons to need leveling in this game. People will have to unlearn or should I say relearn how to play.
Allbeit there are some of us gamers who are biting at the bit, waiting and anticipating for our chance to jump right in. Can't wait to start massing my army for WvW, but even more so finding the right 2 people to finish off my 5vs5 group.!